A Bigfoot Appeared on a Road That Wasn’t There Near Oakridge, Oregon

0:00 You're listening to Bigfoot Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring you firsthand encounters from people who say they've seen something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to quiet farms and crowded highways, the stories come from everywhere, and each one leaves us with more questions than answers. These are the voices of the people who've lived it. So settle in because today you'll hear another account that just might change the way you see the woods forever. So stay with us. Please keep Jeremiah in your prayers as he continues his fight against cancer. For more updates about his medical journey, please go to the CaringBridge link in the show notes. Thank you.

0:44 And this is taped anyway, right? Yeah, it's prerecorded, so I edit everything. Yep. Okay. Dude, thank you so much for coming on the show again. We are talking to Mr. Ronnie Roseman today. Some people know him as Ronald Roseman, but most people know him as Ronnie Roseman out there in Oak Ridge, Oregon. How are you doing today, sir? Oh, relative to what? I don't feel like I'm 40 or 50 years old anymore. Dude, I'm 40-something years old. Yeah, well, you're young. Oh, true. I could be your grandpa. Yeah. But anyway, my old age, I've had to cut down on my drinking because I can't handle it. I can't walk as well. Oh, really?

1:32 Like I used to in my younger days. Oh, that's all right. You know, that's okay to do some health stuff. I love drinking. I hated to quit it. I know. I had to, too. I had to, too. But it's because of the health thing. I only got to really for a year, so it wasn't a big deal, but Um, so the main, the main reason I wanted to make sure that we got you on because, so I just finished, you got your first book out big foot in two steps beyond volume one, dude, it's really good. Um, I just want to talk about a few reasons why I really like it real quick. Okay. So you have a really good way of writing. Uh, there's a lot of details that are not really, they didn't really come out in the, like, people have heard your interviews on Bigfoot Society. And you're going to find out more about the Greenwell expedition for sure, big time.

2:30 And there was some few things I learned about your research area in Oak Hole and stuff in Oak Ridge that was really cool. There's also a really interesting story at the end. I'm not going to give it away because people really need to get your book. I'd recommend it. But there's a very interesting story with Kwani Lapseritis at the end that I'd never heard before. I didn't even know you guys had a connection. And that is a fascinating story. I forgot I put that in there. Yeah, right. So, I mean, that alone is pretty cool to read. Listeners need to check that out. But, man, how was it putting that book together? How was that process for you? A nightmare. You know, I've never written anything other than a couple of articles or something. No, that's a monumental task.

3:22 There's so much editing. It's not just, you know, I'm thinking in my head, well, I can maybe have to do a little editing or whatever, but I can go over it. I got a pretty good memory. And I can go over it. And I got a few notes and stuff, but I figured I could go through it. No, I can add it 20 times and then I go over it. Yeah, that looks fine. And then a few weeks later or a month later, I look at it. No, I need to kind of add something in there that I didn't put in there or take something out. Then I got a word problem. I don't know the meanings of a certain word to describe certain situations. You know, you're because I like to write where somebody reading it, they can feel like they're on scene, like they're there. Right. The way I like to do it. And I don't know how to describe certain things. I got tributaries down and stuff like that and things, but there's certain situation locations that you really need to be a writer to put it in. But I, I got it ironed out and I did it, but a lot more difficult for me probably than, than average writer, you know?

4:37 Well, I mean, you can tell you put the time into it and I'm surprised there's some stuff you put in there. I mean, we have talked for hours at the bar in Oak Ridge and just shooting the breeze. And I've heard, I've heard the stories, right? And so I've always wondered, okay, when he gets that first book out, is he going to put some of this stuff in there? And like, you put some stuff in there. I was like, wow, he is really like, You're getting the whole story. So I was like, hats off to you, man. And that's with both the Greenwell expedition and the Oak Ridge stuff. It's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, that expedition, that was generous. But you have to read it. Yeah, it was worthwhile putting in there.

5:23 And that was actually my first expedition as far as Bigfoot's concerned. And that was in 1999. So that's late in life for me. So, you know, I was more of a, I'm more of a dreamer than a doer. And I, uh, I just didn't get, and Bigfoot was always on my mind. I was, uh, obsessed with it, you know, from an early age, like I said, last time on the show, uh, I started at eight, you know, nine, actually nine years old, but I got hit in the bottom of snowman when I was eight and then Bigfoot came on the scene, but I, I always had it in the back of my mind. And when I was out, You know, collecting snakes, that's what I did for years.

6:05 I really enjoyed it. It's like therapy. But I always had the monsters on my mind. But, you know, I didn't plan on really having any events or anything. Anything major took me out here to Oak Ridge. And then, boy, that stuff happened. I know it. It just opened my eyes up to several levels up. These things are incredible things. It just blows your mind. I just– because you can't ever get it out of your head. No, you can't. You can't at all. You mentioned– because, yeah, you do have a love for reptiles, which is a whole– I mean, other discussion in itself, and it sounds like that will be coming out in Volume 2. Is that right? When you go to the Honey Island Swamp Monster?

6:54 Oh, the Swamp Monster, yeah, but not that I'm going to be getting into snakes. Oh, okay. No, these books that I'm doing, I would like to do an autobiography-like thing in my life. I mean, it's really interesting. I get to drink, and I get talking about people's– To me, it's like normal. But to other people, my life has not been normal. It's a wild one. And people are, but I never thought of it that way. You know, I've done a lot of crazy stuff. And then my whole family history. My granddad, I seen him once when I was five years old. He was 93 years old.

7:34 And he had a cane. And we had a big family in Southern California, my aunt's house. They had a big breakfast, biscuits and gravy and everything and bacon. And everybody after breakfast retired, they went into the living room. I was sitting at the kitchen table watching my grandpa. And he was looking at that skillet on the stove. And it was half inch of grease on it. And that thing, he walked over and drank it all. Oh my goodness. I never, I never forgot that. It's like, that's wild. Yeah. He came from Germany and, uh, he ended up on, uh, uh, in Carolina, the mountains. And, uh, he ended up kind of being like a mountain man, but he, uh, you know, in the mountains, he rented, he met some Cherokees and he ended up living with them and married, uh, a Cherokee maiden on the reservation. Then my ancestry goes from there.

8:47 His offspring were hillbillies, had their stills and stuff. And, uh, uh, revenues would go looking for those stills and they didn't come back out of the mountains. Right. And, uh, My dad was telling me about him. My mom told me that she said that, says, you're dad. She said, I asked him if I could, every year he goes to see his kinfolk in the mountains in Carolina, and I never get to go with him. He goes once a year on a holiday, he'll go back and visit. And he told her, he says, I can't take you. If I took you, they would keep you. Wow. You're too pretty.

9:32 I would never be able to get you out. There's like nothing I could do about it. They would just keep you. If that was the truth, it was like... Yeah. So anyway, I don't want to talk about the whole life's history, but there's some interesting stuff. I mean, the family history probably could be a book in itself, I would imagine. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's a different podcast for sure. Yeah. So how about this? So we haven't really talked since– had a good chat since last week. not this last july but july of 2025 when i was last out there and then health issues i couldn't make it 2026 working through that right now hopefully be back next year if i have anything to do with it i'll be there so yeah since the last time we talked which was july 2025 Has there been any cool Bigfoot-related adventures that you've had or anything like that with the research area or just Ronnie getting into crazy adventures in Oak Ridge?

10:35 Well, nothing earth-shattering, but there's been a few things. It's been a little while back now, but not too far, but. And as a fellow, he came in, gosh, it might be two years now, a year and a half when he came to Oak Ridge to see the museum. And he, gosh, about several hundred dollars worth of stuff. He's got money and stuff. And money means something. Doesn't mean you're a bad guy, you know. But anyway, he's important. And he was at the festival. And he's Russian. I took him up there. And we looked around and there's one structure.

11:23 It's a crude structure. And something made it. And it wasn't a person. And then he found another one when we were going back in that area and found another one. And then this Russian guy, he went up there and he stayed all night. And he went down in the bottoms. By himself? I know that's a sin. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. He wanted me to go. I didn't. But I was working on a bug. I was trying to get the freaking thing done. This was 2025 or 24? Sorry. Oh, just a couple of months ago or so. Oh, okay. Continue.

12:04 So he went down in there and he told me, he said, it's scary down there. And he told me, he heard some sounds that was strange. And I asked him... and he repeated them the best he could. And I have no doubt these things were there and they let him know because that's an area that's sensitive to them. There's no place to set up a tent even down in there so thick. Why do you think it's sensitive to them? I think because, well, it's off the beaten path. And a good part of it is swamp. And then old growth you can see forever going down into the ravine or whatever off in the distance. And there's nobody, no place to set up camp. We set up camp. That's the first place when we were doing recon the first time.

13:04 It was that area. It's got a creek and it's got swamp cabbage. And I think they eat swamp cabbage. But I mean... the available food supply has got to be good. And, you know, it's their area. In fact, I told Dwayne when we were there, when we went down in that area, looking at all this, and you just got the feel for it, too. I mean, it's a primitive feeling. And I said, I think maybe this is a good place to camp. There was a dry spot because it was summer. And part of the swamp where the swamp would be normally was a big grassy area.

13:46 And so we went and got our stuff and set up camp that night there. I said, you know, I think we may get some visitors here. It's like we'll be sleeping in their kitchen. And we did. I don't know what all I mentioned the last time on the show, but I did leave part of this out. I listened to the show that was on the first one. Episode 420. Yeah. Yeah. And yesterday, I hadn't heard it for years. Oh, wow. In fact, the first time I heard it, the first 10 minutes, I shut it off. I didn't listen to it for six months because I couldn't stand myself. God, I sounded horrible, you know, and I was embarrassed, actually.

14:30 And then you put that monster up there where I'm looking up at it and saying, I'm staying even if you tear me apart. It's one of my favorite interviews, Ronnie. It really is. It's so good. But, you know, I lived through it, and I got a different vibe off of it last night. That's an interesting story. Actually, it wasn't too bad. But at first, I was... And then that monster, I'm thinking, people, especially if they know it, they'll look at that, yeah, I'm going to fight a monster or something. I thought, I didn't know what to think of that. But it was like that. I mean, you know... i i was terrified and i was going to stay i made up my mind i explained that how you know part of me was saying run and the other part saying no you got to stay here this is what you're for right and so you either steal up and you do it or you run and uh so i i'm i'm steeled up and that's when i thought to myself uh i'm staying even if they tear me apart i had to go all the way mentally And that's what I did.

15:38 I was still enough. Yeah, I'm staying. He didn't tear me apart. And then that's when that other sound came in there. Like I said, that growling sound like almost like a machine. Right. And it was so freaking loud. And I thought, this guy means business. It's like he was reading my mind. Like I'm going to stay in here with the terrier part. And this guy's like saying we can accommodate you. I noticed that in your book that I, so I just, you know, I've been working on it the last few days and I noticed that and I was like, that's a new detail. So is that something that you actually, it's just the vibe you were getting from whatever it was there or?

16:20 Well, I don't know, but that's one coincidence. As soon as I was thinking, I'm staying even if you tear me apart. And then that comes in, joins in immediately after I thought that. With the other sounds, four or five of them, you know, like the monkeys going crazy in a frenzy or some chimpanzees and then the owl and the coyote and the raven. And they're mad. I mean, it's not like normal coyotes and owls and ravens. These are like pissed off, you know, animals. And it was already extremely loud. And then this thing comes in just as loud, if not even drowning it out a little bit.

17:05 I mean, I just wish I had a recording so that people wouldn't believe it. But yeah, that was horrifying. I changed my mind real quick. And that's when I walked around to the car slowly, and I opened the door and got in, and they were still going at it. But as soon as I touched that door to close it, they silenced. They all shot up at the same time. Exactly, which I always thought is fascinating. And the whole account— so really, you can listen to episode 420, but definitely get the book because there's more— There's more details to it because of the way you write, and it's very, very interesting to read it and also to listen to it come together. Have you been up to the area recently in the last few months?

17:54 No. Oh, really? Well, yeah, maybe within the last, you know, within two months or so, yeah, I've been up there. And nothing happened. I did a little walking around there. You know, my thing was, after I got these things, after being run out of there twice, for the first time, we attempted it. And then that was during the night. And we didn't think we were going to live. I mean, for real. Poor Dwayne, you know, he's a tough fella and been up there camping for over 40 years, and I've told you, he's been charged by grizzly bears twice, and it didn't even bother him. Right. Because he's going to drop them at a certain point, but they were bluff charges, so the bears were lucky. I mean, he's a tough fella, and he still hasn't got over that night.

18:45 It's been several years. So, yeah, it was profound, intense, intense. We did not think we were going to live, especially that one that, well, all of it. For an hour and a half, they terrorized us. And that one was charging the tent. He'd run at the tent and stop right on a dime and turn around and run back. He did that every once in a while while they're screaming and hollering right behind our tent. And you could tell they're going back and forth. They were pissed, excited, and running back and forth and hollering and then charging. And then we had a brace, like I said on that show, I believe, every time it'd run, it'd stop right at the edge. It's like that foot was hitting right at the edge of the tent. And then it'd turn around so quick and back. But every time, I just braced for impact because I thought, sure, that thing, sooner or later, it's going to come right on through and take us, the tent, and everybody with it. That's the way he felt.

19:51 It really is. Ronnie, man, the one time that I've been, I would say viscerally scared is the time in 24 when we heard the roars from the woods and I have never reacted to, and I was like, I don't know what's happening. This is crazy. And it was like, but yeah, you're right. If, if you're in that situation, you need to, and you want to like have an encounter, you need to push through that fear. And that's something I need to, I need to work on personally to get through it. Right. That's not easy. No. And especially if you're kind of a chicken, I like me, you know, I ain't no big, brave guy going out there, I guarantee you.

20:44 If I hadn't been obsessed with this subject for so long, I don't think I ever would have come near doing what I did. It took everything I had. But, you know, and then twice, but I felt bad and And because Dwayne, after that was over, he said he's never going back. He said that the first time, the second time too. And he's told me, he says, I never had any problem with it until it took you up there. Yeah, that's funny. That's funny. I felt bad about it. And I ruined it for him. You know, he loved camp. He used to skip school.

21:25 in Oak Ridge and hike up there and, and, and. Hunt all day. I mean, he loved the area and he still does, but he can't go up there because of that night, especially stay all night. He's nervous in the daytime. Well, yeah. I mean, you get into this, this field and it opens your eyes as to what's really going on out in, in the woods in some places. And it's just, it's a whole different story, you know? Yeah. But you know, I, I've learned so much. I wouldn't give that up. I went through up there for anything. I know. The more you learn about these things, like anybody will say, the less you know. I mean, there's so many questions.

22:06 And I witnessed them doing so many things. And I've seen them on their best behavior and their worst. And, you know, which reminds me, there's some mistakes in that book. And I thought I had them straightened out, I'm pretty sure, over the phone. And they were not corrected. So I want to just announce that now. One is the Greenwell expedition in 99. It says the last expedition that was done. He was dying on that expedition. But it was 2005. And I got down there 2025.

22:51 Oh yeah. I noticed that. Yeah. Uh, but that's, yeah, it's a simple. I hate that, but it is what it is. It is too late. I, I thought I corrected it. I, they say I didn't. And anyway, it's there. And then there was another one in there. There, there's a few little things like that. It's totally out there. Uh, I know I get you. And I, and I put a, put a night in there that, uh, somewhere in there that, uh, I've seen them, uh, or been with them where they're, uh, from benign to the benevolent and well, benevolent, it should have been malevolent from, Oh, right. Yeah. That's true. There's a few things in there, but I hope that doesn't take notice to too many.

23:32 I don't think that'll take away from it too much. I mean, people can look past that. So let's talk about a Sasquatch summer fest for 2025 for a bit. Um, actually, um, 2026, my bad this year. So, uh, I know you always have some great conversations just talking to people at the festival. Were you able to have any good chats or did you hear of anyone having any encounters off by themselves in the woods when they're camping out and stuff like that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was interesting. I didn't go with them. Bill Morris, he said that when he was coming into Oak Ridge, I guess it was about 10 miles before you get here, He said he went up in an area and looked around a little bit, and he says he heard him, and they were close by and mixed some racket or something. And then I think it was that night, because he said it, gosh, I forget what he said. It must have been the daytime.

24:38 And anyway, Kyle McDonald, the free spirit. Yeah, Kyle's a great guy. Yep. I like it. But he, yeah, he does what he wants to do. He don't care what anybody thinks or not. He's kind of like a younger Ronnie. He's a younger version of you, Ronnie, really, is how I look at it. He kind of is. I don't know if I was that crazy. All right. Just kidding. No, but, no, maybe, maybe in some ways I think he is. Yeah. Maybe he reminds you of me, but I like him. But anyway, he turned on her, The story Bill was standing there talking about, they went out that night and Kyle told me that they've seen tracks, even a young one. Oh, wow. Yeah, that was with him.

25:32 I've been trying to get Kyle on the show. Hopefully it will happen. I know it will. It's just he's a busy guy and, you know, schedules are schedules. But I'd love to talk to him again. Now, that reminds me, Ronnie, because a while ago we had talked and I was like, man, I got it. I got to get you to share about that on the show, because there was one time that you and Kyle went up to the Oak Hole research area. And can you share? Can you share about those times? I know when I asked you, you're kind of you talk to Kyle. It's it's it's hard to talk to Kyle. Is there anything you can share about what happened when you guys went up there and played guitar and things like that?

26:22 From my memories, I don't think there was anything dramatic at all. I played the guitar. He had his bass. He really enjoyed it. I wish he came back more and we'd go up there and do that. I like doing that. Being up there just playing. Sometimes you get their attention. But I don't remember anything really happening. And we were up there twice anyway. And Kyle, I'm not into the woo like he is. And he notices all that kind of stuff because that's what he's into. And things that are odd and structured are just things out of place where I would never see anything. But he's so into it. And we really kind of a divide there because I try to like stay more down to earth.

27:19 But he's really into it, which is all right. There's something that I did happen that me and Dwayne both witnessed up there. It's so far out. And this is new. So this is this is new. You're saying. That's something I have not mentioned. Okay. I don't think I've told you about this. You've referred to this? Not on the radio. You've referred to it, and you're like, I just have never shared it on your show. And, yeah, if you feel like it's a good time to share it, feel free to do so. Well, I'm going to do it because it happened. Yep, yep. And I was almost embarrassed. I just didn't put it out. I've got one incident up there that cannot be explained.

28:03 Hmm. And if I didn't have a witness, Dwayne, I wouldn't mention it at all. I think there must have been something wrong with me at the time or something. But we were on a recon thing down in the bottoms. And we were coming up towards the metal side. We had never went out that way. I hadn't. And we, on the way up the mountain, There was a downed tree in front of us, kind of a pathway with less obstacles and brush and stuff so we could hike. And this tree, it was huge. It must have been five feet off the ground or four foot or whatever.

28:50 And it had enough room underneath for me to go underneath. But Dwayne can't do that. He's got this bad back. Oh, yeah. and the tree went into the shrubs and the thickets on both ends. So we were negotiating how to get the heck out of there around that. And so we took a break and, uh, I'm looking at, there's a ravine to the right and thick trees, you know, and, uh, I'm looking and Dwayne's, uh, He's got his back to me about 10 feet away, the other way, looking around. And I see a road. It's a dirt road. And it goes right up and looks like it goes over the mountain. And in the center, looks like probably about 500 feet away or whatever. It looks like a Bigfoot standing there. And on the edges of the road, you could see the... uh, the limbs or whatever, the grass or whatever, the stuff growing in the limbs from the trees swaying like a breeze. And this thing is perfectly stoic.

30:08 It's dead still. It is not moving. It's got the head. It's got the shoulders. It looks like the arms coming down and the legs. And it's just standing there. And I called Dwayne, I get his attention. I said, Dwayne, come here and take a look. I didn't tell him what I saw. I just wanted his, what he thought. I said, take a look at this. What do you think? He says, that looks like a Bigfoot. I said, yeah, it does, doesn't it? And we must have stayed there 15 minutes watching it. Because, you know, pareidolia or whatever you call it, could be a stump, you know, at the distance. Man, it was the only thing in that road.

30:56 Right in the middle. It did not move. So we left. When did that happen again? Sorry. That happened. Well, that happened. Let's see. Yeah, before that, we had that exciting night. Okay. It was before that. And a couple of weeks later, we're hiking out of there. And we're at the same spot. And Dwayne's off, he's got his back to me, same thing. And I'm looking for that road. It ain't there. There's nothing but pine trees or tall, thick trees all the way through there. There's no way to see a road if there was a road. The road was not there.

31:45 So I said, Dwayne, come here and take a look at this. He walks over. I didn't say anything. He walked over and looked and he says, That's strange. And we have not talked about it. We haven't mentioned it for years here. About three weeks ago, I mentioned it because I don't get it out of my mind. I don't know how to deal with it. And I asked Dwayne, I said, what do you think about that road we saw? He says, I don't think about it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. How did that happen? Man, that's weird as I'll get out. There's no way to see a road. It was thick trees all the way through. There was no way to see anything through those trees. That road was there. We could see it through. The trees were not there. We could see that road.

32:36 So it's not that you guys got scared or anything. It's just like you looked at it for a long time and you're like, well, time to go is kind of what it sounds like to me. Well, yeah, we could stand there all day. We don't know. It sure looked like a Bigfoot standing there. But the road.... It wasn't there. We both saw it. That just boggles my mind. I know it boggles his mind so much. He don't even think about it. There's nothing you can do with it. You can't go anywhere with it. What are you going to do? Man, that's so strange. I had got to go into the... you'd have to go into the woo stuff. And I've been fighting that for a long time.

33:18 So that's a, that's a fun, that might be a fun conversation. Why are you fighting that Ronnie? I'm just curious. I'm really just curious. Because it just gives me mental indigestion. I, I, I don't know where to go with it. There's, how do you even start to explain that? Unless you're going to get into the woo and other dimensions and stuff. I, And that's speculation. You don't know how you're going to ever answer that. So is it like a thing where it's self-protection for yourself or you just literally. Don't want to go down the rabbit hole? I'm the kind of guy, if I got a problem, I like to work on it and I'll work on it the rest of my life. I'll take breaks, but it'll bother me.

34:07 I get it. And I start getting into that stuff. Then I got to get into the other stuff that's over my head, like Ron Moorhead's into all the frequencies. Frequencies, quantum Bigfoot. You know, quantum Bigfoot and all that stuff. And that's a whole nother freaking level. You know, that's like going into algebra from simple math or something. And it just overwhelms me just to start to try to come up with an answer I'm. Just overwhelmed I get it I get it yeah um yeah I think I think personally I think there's something to it yeah I think there's something to it but it's it's wild stuff man I mean I don't know if we'll ever get the full answer but I mean I've experienced weird stuff out.

34:56 There I think we'll have to die and go into another dimension before we understand any of that stuff I uh I don't know how you could ever answer that I uh but like i said you know searching and there's people a lot better at this than i am especially at that next level which i think ron moorhead is really at absolutely uh i think he's on the level where he should be going but that's i i read two pages on that uh uh uh quantum fizzy stuff and and i'm dizzy my mind just can't can't get into it and it So that's why I just got to leave it alone. But I'm open to the possible, a lot more possibilities.

35:43 Okay. So that's interesting. So you're, let me just clarify that. So you are open to weird stuff, but you don't get into it because you know what it would do to you. And you're like, I just don't want to go down the road. When you witness it, what are you going to do? Yeah, exactly. You can't shut it out. No, no, you can't. I don't have to think about it all the time. It'd drive me crazy. But, uh, if I wouldn't have mentioned at all, if witness, uh, if not witnessed by Dwayne and he's a straight up guy, there's no way that guy ain't going to tell a lie. No, never. No, he won't. And he, he witnessed it and he knows he's seen it, but I think he's got the same problem I have.

36:26 It's just, it's just mind boggling. What are you going to do with it? But, uh, And if I had never him, I wouldn't even be saying it now because I think, well, maybe I, you know, at that time, maybe it wasn't correct. Maybe I was busy or something. I don't know. But I can't deny it with him as a witness. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've spent hours in the woods with Dwayne and a few years ago, 2025. And I mean, he had one of the most honest dudes I've met. I mean, just super salt of the earth. Like so many people you meet out there. It's wild. It's very cool. Yeah. No, he's got his standards, his principles. He'll die before, you know, not keep up with them. He's not going to tell a lie. Right. He's just a stand-up guy all the way through. He tells you exactly what he thinks. Absolutely.

37:22 A question for you. So are you still, you know, Priscilla, Scott, Area 58, uh, museum and, and that good stuff going on in Oak Ridge, which people should really check out outside of the festival when it's open, uh, by the DQ. But are you still, do you still hang out there and sometimes talk to people? It's been a, she's probably a couple of months. I was in there. I sometimes I drive by there and there's people there. They came from out of town and I got a key. So I'll stop in, and there has been some of those fairly recently that I've seen. I've went in and given my spiel on everything and talked to them about the museum and stuff.

38:09 Oh, so you, like, open it up for them and stuff. Yeah. Oh, that's nice. If I see somebody there, yeah. That's cool. I've learned so much about these things, and I don't know. Just on a normal basis, without getting into the woo, I mean, they're amazing. If you don't mind me recapping here, of course, you can put in what you want. When I was growing up there, after I made friends with him, can you imagine that? It's just mind-boggling. Listen to that show again last night. It's really.

38:56 Spectacular story. I, it sounds incredible. It's almost unbelievable to me. It's pretty awesome. What I have experienced with them. But I, uh, you know, when I, the times that I took somebody up there that they intimidate, they got intimidating, not with me, but they would with them. Um, you know, I learned that kind of the first time I didn't really sink in, but I, uh, When I took the friend here in town, sal the muscle building guy. Who up there sorry we went out for a little bit who was that.

39:38 Uh his name was sal okay i think he's he's in the book too about all this experiences but i he uh man right off the bat walking towards the gifting tree And there was some high-pitched sounds that were menacing and a stomp on the ground. And he wanted to go right then, so I took him out. But then about a few weeks later, that guy, which was really interesting, I learned a lot on this. These things didn't like it, but I'm glad it happened. Because I learned so much about him. That's when Chris LaCouture, it's hard name to pronounce. Yeah, yeah. That was interesting. We were probably a mile from the gifting tree. I was going up to do my gifting like I'd been doing.

40:35 We had his van. He was driving. And They got the switchback roads in the mountains. There's no way you can see or any of that. It's a mile away. And that one came off with that siren scream. You know, like an airy siren. And that fellow was a mile away. We could hear him clear. I know he was up there by the meadow where we're headed. These things already knew we were coming. And I haven't completely figured out some things there. And this guy, he's a big guy.

41:16 He's got a heart of gold. But he's not afraid of anything. And I've never seen anybody like that. And I asked him after this all over. I said, you know, there's a possibility of being killed. He said, well, if you've got to go, it's going to happen. That's the way he is. When that thing came off like that, if I didn't know any better, I would have turned around. I was already familiar with them, but I would have, I would have turned around myself. I mean, that's the sound. I don't know if you've ever heard it. I mean, that's the sound that, huh? It's, it's similar. It sounds like it's similar to like the, the Ohio howl in a way, or is it more of a scream?

41:59 It's a scream. I've never, I've heard of, actually, I've heard, well, when you were playing guitar, it would have been a, it was more of a roar, but it did have a scream. It was not, primarily a scream, but it still was freaky as all get out. It sounds like an air, it sounds like an air raid siren. Yeah. Full blast. I mean, an air raid siren is a duck because there's some bombing kind of come in here. Right. You know, that's exactly what it feels like. Something's up, you know, not good. First time I heard that was in the Siskiyous. And, uh, I was, uh, the three of us that heard it was, uh, Richard Greenwell and his son and me, all of us were, we were stunned. We were getting, we were packing our stuff up to go out because horses gonna be in there the next day to take everything out. And it was sort of packing stuff away, it was at night.

42:59 That thing come off and all of us had, our hair was standing up in the back of our necks. It felt like the ground was trembling. It's a powerful roar. And then I hear it up here for the first time. That's when I'm bringing him up. And I thought, well, if I hadn't known anything about that and hadn't been familiar with these things at the time and getting along with them, I would not have went up. But I looked at him being a hunter. He just pointed, he pointed in that direction, and his eyes were bulging. And he's just looking at me. So I said, yeah, I said, that fella's either letting us know that he knows we're coming or he's gathering the troops. And he was doing both. Yeah, he was doing both. So he'd get up there. So I learned some things. it wasn't my car. I thought it was my car is the reason they knew I was coming. It wasn't because it's the first time that band's been up there.

44:05 Oh, sure, yeah. And this guy is not one easily intimidated. When he was living here, he owned it for 13 years. He was interested in Bigfoot, but he'd never seen anything, you know. So I told him he wanted to spend a day with me, and I said, I know where Bigfoot's at. And he said, let's go. So that's where it started off. But he went there, and He's like, and the measurement of intimidation with three different people over the period of time growing up there was different. I mean, this was like almost a full escalation of intimidation. And this is the kind of guy who would take a lot to scare.

44:52 I'm just wondering if they somehow, they even knew that. They're going to have to up the intimidation for this guy. Wow. I don't know how that could be, but I don't doubt anything with these things anymore. So we get up there, and we get out of his van. We walk around it. I'm getting ready to go over to the gifting tree. We didn't have to go far at all. We just were right there. And then that big, like a gorilla grunt, powerful and loud, came off from the other side of the meadow. Sounded like about 300 feet away, but we were deep, you know. And it got both of our attention.

45:35 And we just waited. And a minute later, on the other side of the metal that came off again, and then a little further down, like a few hundred feet, you've already got something in your mind. that something is moving because the timing was perfect. And the third time it come off, it was further down. You know, growling. So that's when he said, I think we're being encircled. And I said, yeah, I think so too. And that's like, you wouldn't think anything else because of the direction, the timing.

46:16 If something was moving and gonna let off once in a while, that's exactly what would be happening, right? And then a minute later, behind me on the left side of me, it came off. Powerful grunt. Then a minute later, off to my right, like this thing and made a complete circle around us. That's what we were thinking. There's no other way to think but that way. And boy, were we surprised. Just to give you an idea how smart these things are. And I don't know how smart they are. That bar could go up a lot higher. I don't know. They seem to go up to whatever they need. Oh, sure. So at that point, I don't know why, but I felt comfortable. Because I'd been going up there with them and singing and playing their whooping and stuff. It's like we're partying. I've been doing that for a couple of months now. So I just felt that that wasn't for me. I felt that it was for him. So I felt actually comfortable about the Bigfoot thing.

47:30 But I'm leaning up against his van and I'm watching him. I was so interested in him and his reaction because that's not normal. He was like a kid in a candy shop. He was having so much fun with all this. Anybody else would have been running and screaming out there, you know? And I, I just, I even forgot about Bigfoot. I'm so interested in him. I just couldn't believe it. He was like a kid in an ice cream parlor. And I was into it. Yeah. And he's, He's looking all around. He's electronic. He's looking. He's excited. And he's saying, oh, he says, I want to move back here. I've never had an experience like this. He's so excited. And he looks down and see what he's looking for. It's that big branch, tree branch. He says, can I take that and whack that tree? You know, after I had screamed that night and freaking got him in, when he killed, I don't make any sounds that's not necessary, right?

48:37 But he deserved it, I thought. And I just couldn't say no. And I appreciated him freaking asking me, too. Oh, sure. Go ahead, you know. But I told him, I said, I don't do it because I don't know what I'm conveying. And he whacked him once. whacked it twice and that third time you whacked it those five spots we heard it we thought it was moving they came off at the exact same time. I remember you telling me that because it's like all of a sudden it's like there's like multiples all around you. Right yeah I know but think about that yeah I put a lot of thought into that. When we came in there, I kind of like get messages, not from them.

49:29 I don't think it's just my inner self talking. But the message I got when that happened, that moment, it's like, You think you were being surrounded. You were already surrounded when you came in here. That's the message I got. Ronnie, let's talk about that for a minute because it's really interesting because a few times the way that you've kind of explained that, it sounds like very close to the guardrails of when people explain getting something wrong. like telepathic or mind speak is how the community says it but you're you're thinking it could have been just a another thought that you had inside your your mind.

50:14 From yourself no it's my my feelings right uh you know you get emotions especially at a level like that yeah you're gonna think something and what you feel what you're thinking what you feel i think I'm not shutting the door on anything, but I try to be as logical as I can with this stuff. When I heard that first scream, roar, the siren sound in the Siskiyous, the message I got from that, from my inner self, I believe, but I'm reading this like that I mean, that's a wake-up call. You ever hear that? There ain't no way anybody's going to tell you it could be an elk on different sounds or anything else because nothing on the freaking planet could come off like this. You have to hear it. But the message I got from that is this is, and we didn't have any experiences with these things. The whole month we were back in the Siskiyous, except me and My tent, when I was alone, when I had that one experience, when the thing came off next to my tent, it's in there, sounded like one of the more aggressive recordings on the Ron Moriarty stage.

51:39 But when that came off, I felt like this is my territory and you're a long way from home. Right, exactly. That's the feeling I had. And it was the last night we were there. It didn't come off the whole, you know, this thing was washing. It was probably the same one that came around my tent that night. But I didn't do a thing, not to get ready to leave. It's like, don't come back. You know, I think it is a warning. But I don't think it was putting anything mental into it. Oh, sure. Yeah, absolutely. So that's another leap. to go there but. It's it is uh it is going down uh another rabbit hole as we kind of talked about before um so i've got a few other questions for you and these might be kind of down another trail it's.

52:33 A correction i want to do that i i listened to that show last night When I started putting the food up to try to be friends with them, I said on that show I was on, I said I was putting that food up for three months. That's not true. It was about six weeks I was putting up before they let me know they were before they started taking it. And then they let me know. It was over three months after they did that. I was with them all the time. And they knew I was coming. I'd go up there and put the food up. They were taking it on a regular basis. And I was singing and playing.

53:18 And so for over three months with them, before things started going into disaster, I took the trip. And then the bad weather and the fires and everything else. That was great. You got into that in the book. Actually, that cleared up. That was a lot of extra detail. That was very interesting when you went into that. Yeah, there's so much that you don't know. I've asked several people at the festival here. I've asked MK. It had been a year and a half or two years because we couldn't get up there most of the time. We took the seven-month trip. Me and Dwayne were going up there.

54:00 We didn't know if. I didn't know. It looked like they may never come back. There was a lot of smoke in that area. There were some fires that got part of that area, but pretty much they grew back quick too, but there was enough cover there. But the smoke inhalation might be enough to leave and not come back. So I was going out there quite a bit for a. Few months and I didn't see any signs or nothing. Putting food up and then one day I go up there and And I had, Chris was visiting, that guy that, you know, that was excited about the experience. He'd come out and stayed with me a day. And that's a long time after the first incident where he was in.

54:45 And I was really depressed about the whole situation because I had something going on with these things. And I figured it's over. I figured they're not ever coming back here. They, you know, the fires were horrible around there. And I figured they're not coming back, all the smoke. I mean, there's got to be other areas they could find. This is an established area for them, but I just figured they were. I didn't even get out and walk around. He said, well, I'm going to go out and walk you. I said, no, I'm just going to sit here. I sat in the car on that road. By the middle. He comes back about 30 minutes later and he says, there's big foot tracks all over the place back in there. Nice. Yeah, I'm thinking, yeah, right. I don't even know if he knew what a Bigfoot track looked like. Went back there and looked. They were freaking everywhere. And the ones I was familiar with, I mean, 100 by 100 feet, the heart of your place where you couldn't.

55:45 You'd step on one, you know. How big were they? All the tracks. The old lady, the 15-inch tracks, which I assume is the old lady. And then the 23-inch tracks. And his toes were down in the grass where he stepped because he's so freaking heavy. And then the younger ones, you know, that. Were 13, 12, 13 inches and stuff and through there. They were all there. They covered over. I've never seen so many tracks. And I've asked people, I've never heard of that. And nobody has ever heard of that I know of. Do you? Have you heard of anything like that?

56:26 Man, it's like, not together in an area like that. I mean, you hear about trackways that go on forever, like the Bossberg tracks back. In the day. Well, yeah, but they're one trackway, and sometimes they're a lot longer than you think. But this is totally different. Usually there's only a few. Yeah. But this whole metal area was covered with them. Right, exactly. Well, I got to thinking that there's something special there. these things don't usually, they're not too careless or reckless. And I, I think that when they do something, it's very calculated and they do it for a reason or a purpose. And, uh, the only thing I can think of that was they knew I wanted to get back into our ritual, whatever we were doing, you know, and, uh, And they left that thinking I would maybe find it because I know that's the area.

57:26 It's only a couple of hundred feet back in. That's the area when I was singing and playing and I could tell they're going back and forth. They're excited. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, you know, all over the place. I had a lot of fun doing that. But, uh, they were moving. That's where they were moving. I believe. And I think now it's two years after we got cut off. I think they might have left that there to get my attention that there are there. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I checked that area out last time in 25. It's so, yeah, you're right. It's a few hundred feet back and it's kind of weird vibes, kind of weird vibes. Nothing, nothing happened to me back in that area, but it's you, man, It's a big area, though. I can only imagine.

58:11 Yeah, it is. And I know that's the area. That's where they're coming from. And I knew they were they were like running when I was playing and singing their weapon. I know that's where it had to be there because that's nice. You know, there's no obstructions in trees right there. And I think that's where they're moving back and forth and having fun. And I think. The only thing that makes sense, unless somebody can explain something to me, that they were thinking I would find that and know they're back. But I didn't, and that might have been a mistake. I got the guy that they thought they run off, I bring him back, and he finds it. They probably knew that.

58:57 That's weird, yeah. That don't look good on my part. I think that might have been a part, maybe just a part of our falling out A guy, they already intimidated so much, and probably figured they did run him off, because I took him, that day we had all those experiences, and him hitting the tree and stuff, it's the day I took him to his plane, and he didn't come back, so they probably figured they'd run him off. And then I. And I went up there the next day and they were there. We were partying just like always after they thought they run him off, I guess. But I was up next day. We were friends. We were fine. Whooping back and forth. It was just him they didn't want there.

59:39 They're doing their whooping again. They usually do. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. As soon as I put some food up and started playing, they were whooping and we did that for a long time. So it was back to normal then, you know, after that. So then two years later, we're separated. And then they leave those tracks. Maybe for me, if they did, then the guy that finds them is the guy they thought they ran off that I brought in the first place. You know, all this stuff sounds crazy. But when you get into the stuff, you've got to think, you know, all over the place of what makes sense and what doesn't. No, absolutely. Yeah. When I was there the first time, like, Denise was finding tracks like crazy inside.

1:00:23 She's really good at it. She's really good at it. And, like, I found the one. Cliff found some. And, like, man, I wish we had casted those because there are some crazy ones back there. We just, you know, it's like hindsight is 20-20. But, dude. Can I, let's, let's try, uh, let's try an experiment. I'm going to say a few places and just to see if anything jogs your memory about maybe there's something that you're involved with over the years. Uh, if it doesn't hit, then it doesn't hit. But, um, did you, have you ever done anything, uh, in the McCready hot Springs area?

1:01:04 I don't even know where it is. Like I said, I was focused on that up there. I had plenty to do. Okay. Odell Lake. People ask me questions about areas that I don't even know the names of places. Okay. No sweat. I got two more. Yeah, some researcher I am. Okay. We'll do two or three more, just in case. Three more. Okay. Oregon Bigfoot Highway. Anything ever with that? Oh, yeah, yeah. With Joe Wheelart? Did you ever go out with him? No, no, I haven't. I think they were going out, Tom Powell and them, a long, long time ago. And I wasn't invited. I already knew why. But somebody had mentioned something. I guess they did miss me a little bit because somebody, from what I heard anyway, through the grapevine, but I... that one of them mentioned, I don't know exactly which one it was, just says, kind of wish Ronnie was here, you know, have some stories. But I, no, but I had a reputation of being a drunk because I was.

1:02:09 And I get to talking too much and I just, I guess I talk way too much and nobody can get in there. So I think that, yeah. But I think they balanced out, is it worth it? And I think they decided no. That's their law, son. Oh, no hard feelings. I love them. Estacada? Estacada, yeah. Do you ever go out there? No, no, I haven't. Like I said, I had so much stuff going on here. I didn't need to go anywhere. Right. And I couldn't handle it. Yeah. If I was out there, I would never hit all the spots. There's too many spots to hit. You would never hit them all. It's impossible.

1:02:51 But when this was hot, it was going, when it was going up there, they're there all, they were there all the time. I mean, why would I go someplace to look for Bigfoot? It's like, and I had all that stuff and I think I'm going to be killed at one time. And I, I, I want to tell you about, I, I don't, I didn't hear, I, I, I left some stuff out when I was on the show because I'm just going all over the place. I do it from memory, you know, and I, I, I don't know, know exactly what I'm going to say. Sometimes I just come off with it, but I, I noticed I missed something out. I did put in there. I mean, the humorous parts of that, uh, like, uh, the night that they came in and I, and Dwayne was cussing.

1:03:37 I said, uh, this is our research area, right? Yeah. You got it. Yeah. Oh, that was so funny. That's classic. But I, uh, but the first time we had an experience there down to the bottoms, we, uh, uh, uh, Dwayne had, uh, I get, well, it's a tan, but it was like a screen. Oh, and you're, it was, uh, Big, it was a big tent, but you could stand up in it. And I don't think I told you this one, but this is another funny one. But sometime in the middle of the night on the swamp side, we heard there's a twig snap and a shrill whistle. Almost human-like.

1:04:29 There ain't no human down in there in that swamp with no light. So I came off, and maybe it wasn't too long afterwards on the right side of us, which wasn't swamp. It was right in the middle between the old girl and the swamp. But a twig snapped in that whistle. Dwayne's not saying anything. I'm not either. We knew what it was. And... I waited, nothing else happened after I waited about 10 minutes. And I said, Dwayne, do you hear that? He said, yes. And okay. So we go to sleep. I had drank a six pack before we went to bed.

1:05:12 We stayed up talking. And I had to go to the bathroom. And when I got to go, I got to go. I couldn't find my flashlight. Did I tell you this one? No, but I noticed it in the book and I was like, oh, this is kind of new. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, you want me to tell it or? No, go ahead. Yeah. It's just, it's funny. Okay. Yeah. I, uh, it's pitch black. I am. I can't keep, I'm just feeling all of my trying to panic. They're trying to get my flashlight. I, uh, I don't know where that zipper is. And, uh, he's Dwayne's on the other 10 on the car. And I'm on the center of the car. Hey, I get on, I'm feeling around. I got to get out of that tent.

1:05:57 And I'm feeling that zipper. And then I hit something. Something's there. And I fall on it. And I grab a hold of it. And then as soon as I grabbed it, there was a scream. You know? And I thought, in my mind, because you're thinking about Bigfoot, because I know. They were there earlier. And I thought that I, I don't know, it just came into my mind. I grabbed Bigfoot crawling into the tent. And then Dwayne, it was Dwayne's leg that was propped up that I tripped and grabbed onto. And he thought a Bigfoot was getting ready to drag him out of the tent. And it was him screaming and roaring coming up.

1:06:45 Oh, man, so good. So both of us thought Bigfoot had us at the same time. We both had pistols, too. It's like.... I loved it. I was like, this is worth the price of admission right here. I know those Bigfoot are out there. I wonder what they were thinking about all that ruckus and that tent. Right. Exactly. Ronnie, another question for you, because I don't know if we've, I don't think we've really gotten into it, but maybe just a little bit, but you used to go to the old Ray Crow meetings, right? Do you have any memories about how those meetings went or anything cool or interactions you had with, because this was like 20, 30 years ago, you were going to those?

1:07:30 Yeah. Average meetings were around 50 people, you know, and there's always new people too, new faces. Oh, absolutely. In fact, I was giving a little talk. When I, he asked, Ray asked me to, because I had gotten back from Florida and, It's always been interesting. It's concave, too. Oh, yeah. Ray asked me to. Get up and talk about it a little bit, but I was talking, and I'm just, you know, you're scaring the audience the way they look and stuff, and going back and forth. And I see new faces, and there's one face in the front row, and he's really... He's interested.

1:08:17 He's got his hands on his knees. He's leaning forward a little bit. He's staring at me, listening to everything I'm saying. I'm thinking, this guy's really interested. I didn't know who he was. I see an aura around him, like a light. His face is kind of like there's light around there. I'm thinking, while I'm talking, he's really intense on this. I'm thinking maybe it's A light from, you know, from the room or something. But nobody else had it. Not the people next to him, behind him, nobody. Around 50 people. And I thought that was kind of strange.

1:08:58 But I got like a message. you know uh uh because when I seen that or like or around him I uh it's like something said you're you're gonna have an adventure like we're gonna have an adventure me and this guy oh wow and I didn't know I didn't know who the heck it was well he's one of the few that that came over to Ray's house afterwards after the meeting and so I got to meeting exchanged information and stuff and interesting fella I'm going to tell you who it is in a little bit but I okay he he calls me up after a couple of months he lives in Montana and he said Ron, he says, I'm getting an expedition together to go across the St.

1:09:55 Joe Mountains. I said, I want you to come along. I'm freaking extremely lazy. I'm probably the only, that's the reason I'm the only Bigfoot reacher that goes up and mess with a Bigfoot, takes his chair and a six-pack and sits. You know, they don't get worse than that. I wouldn't blame anybody if they didn't believe anything I said. What they do, he goes up and takes a six-pack and drinks and sits in the chair. That's how he bigfoots. But it sounds stupid, right? But I'll tell you what, you don't need to move around with these things. You sit in one spot. I do the same thing. You sit in one spot.

1:10:36 If you're there for a week or more, If there's anything in there, you're going to get some attention because they're going to wonder why you're not moving on. Right. So they might think I'm just lazy and stupid. I am lazy and a little stupid, too. But anyway, so he says he wants me to invite me on this. And I'm reluctant on that. But he said he had several other people going. So I didn't feel like I was going to mess up anything. Well, he calls me up a month later. He said, he wants to do this. Everybody's flaked out on him. He ain't got nobody. I didn't even know Don. It was Don Monroe, okay?

1:11:20 I was guessing. I was like, this has to be the Don Monroe origin story. Yeah. This is awesome. It is Don Monroe. This is how I met him. Wow. And I, so he says, Ron, he says, I want you to go. Well, he says, a 70 mile hike. St. Joe Mountains. I'm thinking I can't even carry that much beer to Lassa, you know, for that. I said, I said, Don, he said, I don't have anything. I don't have a backpack. And he says, I've got six backpacks. You can take any one you want. I said, I don't, I don't have any boots. He says, what size you wear? Nine, 10, you just.

1:12:05 Got all the boots. I said, but Don, 70 miles. I said, I can't, I'm not in shape. I can't do no 70 miles over fricking mountains and stuff. I got no shortcut. It won't be 25 miles. I said, well, I don't have a gun. I ain't going nowhere without a gun. He says, I got a 38, 45, 44 Magnum. I said, Don, I don't have no money. I can't, I'm broke. And he said, I'm going to buy you a plane ticket and pick you up to Spokane. I couldn't get out of it, right? And I didn't even know this guy, except meeting him that one time. And something said, you're gonna have an adventure, you know, with him. Well, as soon as, so he picks me up to Spokane Airport, and I get in his van, the first thing out of his mouth, he says, Ron, you're gonna hate me for this, but you're gonna love the adventure. That's so cool. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I freaking helped.

1:13:12 And I tell you, it was an adventure, and I just about almost hated it when we got through to the boots. With the 25 miles, when we made it to 25 miles, we got lost trying to find the freaking shortcut. It's extended. We probably did 80 miles. I was so beat up. The boots didn't. I had blisters on the top of my boots and the bottom of my feet and the bottom of my feet. I mean, it was horrible trying to hike in those freaking boots. And the last leg, it was about 20 miles to go. I woke up.

1:13:55 My right eye was swollen shut. It looked like a golf ball. It was swollen shut. And my jaw, half my face was swollen. My teeth were infected. It's bad. And he says, Ron, you gotta let me pull those teeth. I thought I probably got a pair of pliers or something, you know, and there ain't no doors to tie your teeth, you know, but I said, no, Don, you're not pulling my teeth and you better let me pull them, that's bad. You know, you could die. Yeah, I could die from bleeding too, you pull my fricking teeth. And so I didn't, I didn't let him pull my teeth. It was a fricking deal. I was so messed up, beat up, man. It was worth hating somebody almost, but it was an adventure. I mean, just like it got for me in the city, right? But I, so we hiked out of there and we finally got onto a road, dirt road. And that was a long hike out of that going down. And then you can see the town way, way, way, way away. And we ended up in this town, this neighborhood, this building. I was glad to be back out on those mountains, buddy.

1:15:07 We're going, I'm looking for a dentist. And I walk a half a block, there's a dentist office. I went in, they took me emergency right away. And they worked on my teeth for four hours. Oh my goodness, dude. Pulling the back teeth out, grinding and stuff and doing everything. He wanted to pull the teeth. He'd have killed me. Yeah, it wouldn't have been great for sure. Yeah. Oh, no, it wouldn't have been. Yes, I would. I'm telling you, I love him. I love Dom. He's a great guy. We've gone out in the woods. Oh, yeah. The trouble is he'll survive. He'll survive. And you're the one that's going to die. You're going to die. But you've got to be careful.

1:15:50 He's amazing. That's intense, dude. Holy mackerel. 2004, I guess, uh, Bellingham conference. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, that was a great deal. That was really good. A lot of good people there. Lloyd Pye. I really liked him. You got to meet Lloyd Pye in person. Wow. I got a picture of him. No way. Oh my goodness, dude. That must've been awesome. I got it. Yeah. I've got a couple of pictures of me and him. I correspond. Oh yeah. And that, And the next book, if there's a second book, if this book does okay, at least get my money back. I'm going to do the second volume. I'm going to have him there because I interviewed him just shortly. And I didn't even know it. I just run across it on the computer thing. And on the Honey, I'm a Swamp Monster.

1:16:39 Wait, would you have an interview with Lloyd Pye? He was very favorable of it. You interviewed Lloyd Pye? Only five questions. It wasn't an interview, but I was communicating with him. And so I wanted to ask his views on the Honey Island tracks and stuff. And it was very positive. And it's good, too, what he said. He was a very intelligent fellow, very knowledgeable. So I got his support on that. I didn't even know I had it, but I did. Yeah, you got to include that. That would be fascinating. That's really cool. Yeah, well, there's going to be a whole thing on that Honey Island Swamp Monster. I've been down there three times, and I did a pretty good investigation, I think.

1:17:22 And, yeah. And, well, it's going to be interesting. You can put a lot in there, because I remember we've had conversations about, you know, you had dealings with MK, which MK is a great guy. MK Davis, got to meet him in Oak Ridge. We all went out, and funny, funny dude. But yeah, there's a lot of history there. I remember with the honey. Yeah, he turned around. I've got his info. But he wrote, too. He said in the face of hard evidence, he didn't have a problem changing his mind. He believes they're there. He knows they're there now. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. But yeah, so that's going to be interesting. In fact, I've got it all down. I got a lot of this stuff down already. There's a volume, too.

1:18:08 I hope there is. You kind of said there was going to be in the books. I think it's going to be more interesting. Well, yeah. It costs money to put out a book. I know it. And I want to do it. I think it's going to be much more interesting than this one. Ronnie, I just want to say thank you for coming on the show again. I want to say again, real quick, listeners, I'm in the description. I will have the link to Ronnie's new book, Bigfoot and Two Steps Beyond. You can get it on Amazon. The link will be there. It's volume one. Also, Ronnie, something that I'm starting to do, just because I take spiritual warfare really serious now, I do want to take a few minutes to pray before the end of our interview, if that's okay.

1:18:58 Oh, you want to do what now? I just want to pray real quick before the end of our interview. Oh, yes. No problem with that. And I want to tell you a little story if you've got some time on that. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Okay, go ahead. You say your prayer. Well, I'm going to say it at the very end. Pardon? I'm going to make sure everything's covered. So go ahead. You say your story and then I'll end with that. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I heard a couple of podcasts. I usually don't listen to stuff, but I was going on here and I love you. I like your show. I just, you know, I don't need to hear a lot of Bigfoot stuff. Yeah, thank you. But I had.

1:19:39 You mentioned the name, Jesus. And that's very important. That's one thing, when I had the poltergeist and things were getting bad, especially physically, when I pray in the name of Jesus Christ, it was gone. You know? There's power in it. So, yes, there is, definitely. Definitely. I think Jesus Christ is God and myself incarnate in the flesh. For sure. But that's a whole other story. We can discuss that too. But I want to tell you this because it's interesting. It'll be in the second book. You're familiar with Dr.

1:20:19 Mackle, right? Yeah. Congo cryptozoologist. Yeah. Two Congo expeditions. I got to know him before they had the International Society of Cryptozoology. Oh, wow. And that's a story in itself. I didn't know anything about, well, there was no society, but he had gotten out his, came out his first Congo expedition. That's when I called him up. I got his number through university and it wasn't even supposed to, it was unlisted. You wasn't supposed to get it. But anyway, that's a whole story out of that. But anyway, we were doing good communicating and talking about some stuff. And I felt that I really loved, great fella. I still think the world of him. I miss him. We had a lot of conversations over the years. But the first two or three conversations was doing good. Well, I'm always drinking my rum and Coke. So, I mean, like there's no limit sometimes, you know, especially when I think I communicate.

1:21:25 And I felt like I could talk about anything with him. But he taught evolution for 40 years, you know. He was a molecular biologist. So, I was careful getting into the weird stuff. I mean, he had some experiences and stuff. That's why he was open to it. He's one scientist that was open to possibilities and easy to talk to. And about the third time talking to him, I started getting into the spiritual things. And which is, he could explain it in detail. Anything, the white light, light at the end of the tunnel because of chemicals and stuff, name and all off. And he kind of, he took me kind of under his wing. I think he thought that I was so fast. My God, I had so many questions about McKellen Bibby and the Congo. I learned a lot from him. But so I think he was a teacher. But he didn't even return calls to other scientists.

1:22:27 And I talked to him over 25 years, I communicate. At one time I had three phone numbers, I could call him any time, any place in the world. That's how close we were getting. But it didn't start off that way. I started getting into spiritual things, and I was talking about near death experiences. Well, he explained it all the way. And my gosh, it made sense too. If I didn't know any better, I would have believed it, especially if I'd gotten an education. I think they really limit themselves with an indoctrination. I don't care how good they are. That's my opinion. But we could get in detail on that too. But anyway, I'm telling you about this stuff. I was explaining this one incident where this lady, She clinically, she was dead.

1:23:21 She died. They're still operating on her. And the next morning, she'd come back to life. They got her, right? But she was gone for an amount of time. And she heard the two doctors in the hallway outside talking. One of them lost the scalpel or something. She was using on her. He lost it. He didn't know it or misplaced it. And she heard that, and when he came in, she told him where it was. But she was dead at the time. And the doctor was like, how did she know that? She said, I was about eight feet over my body looking at you while you were operating on me, and I seen where you put it. So I asked Dr. Mackle, I said, how do you explain that? I said, there's thousands of cases. And he was honest. He says, I don't know. Right. So that was good. So the next time I talked to him, I said, well, I'm going to another level. I started talking about spiritual things and stuff.

1:24:31 And I think that the main spirit, where the power is, I think is Jesus. And he said, that's where we part company. Really? He wasn't having it? That was it. We hung up. Oh, no way. I said, well, no. But I said, Dr. Maxwell, I said, does that mean it's over? And he says, that's exactly. What it means. And he hung up. No way. Oh, man. Yeah, I was really hurt. And I said, I wish I hadn't have done that. And it was a great contact about the Congo and stuff. And I really kicked myself the butt for it. But about a month later, I come in from the bar, been drinking rum and coke all day, and Oh, I got to thinking about that. That's why I had the nerve, because I was freaking drinking rum. But that's how I had the nerve to call him in the first place when I wasn't even supposed to have his line. And then I called him, he had pneumonia on top of it when I called. Anyway, that's a whole other story.

1:25:30 But I, so now I've ruined it. After about a month, I said, I'm going to call him. I said, the worst thing that happened, I mean, don't ever call me again or hang up on me. So I called him and he was nice. He was real nice. It was almost like he was skydiving coal. And we talked, we didn't mention anything about why we parted. We talked for about half an hour, usually an hour, two hours. We talked about it. And he says, he says, I'm going to be coming in. He was in Chicago. And he says, I'm going to be coming into San Diego in a couple of weeks. You can do some research at the university there. And I said, Dr. Merkel, I says, is that an invitation?

1:26:13 He says, yes, it is. Oh, cool. So me and my wife lived down there. We stayed with his wife for the day until Mackle got out of the university. And Mackle took us all out to dinner, me, his wife, and me and my wife. Plush place. It was just really neat. Great food, classy place. We had our own private section. And my wife was at the table next door. Just me and Michael were talking to my wife with Lisa. His wife, at the next table. And I'm asking all these questions about the Congo and pygmies and everything. And he's not commenting. He just pointed it away for a little while. And then he wants to know something about the Bible.

1:27:04 Oh, wow. Yeah. So I wasn't getting it right away. I thought something was kind of up. You know, you didn't want to ever talk to me again. Now here, we're sitting there. I guess I was satisfactory on answering this question. And then I got back to the Congo that we talked about. Then he'd answer my question. Then he'd get back, want to know something else about the Bible. And he says, that makes sense. He says, it sounded like a fairy tale to me. You know, these scientists, they read the Bible. But it sounds like a fairy tale book. There's a lot of mistranslation and stuff. I don't know how many people know about that stuff, but there's some error in there.

1:27:49 But you straighten things out, and you can know if things are out of context. Anyway, got into that, and he was content with that pretty much. And so we had a good time. So that felt good. We were friends. That's awesome. Yeah. And I got 80 miles to drive back. I'm with my wife and she's telling me about Lisa, what Lisa said, Dr. Merkel's wife to her. She said that Ronnie must've struck a chord with Roy. So he doesn't even return, uh, calls to other scientists. And, uh, so that was kind of neat. And she told her something else after we had hung up that night, he said, it's over. A few days after, within the week or whatever, he loved his mom. His mom was on the deathbed. He was holding her hand and he says, mom, if there's a way to show me a sign from the other side, would you do it?

1:28:54 She said, yes, if I can. It wasn't very long. He's going at a high rate of speed. And I could see Maxwell, his character, doing it. And there's, all of a sudden, there's an accident. Several cars piled up, semi-involved. It's too late for him to get around it. He could, looks like he could have died in this. And like other cars had already hit, his mom took the wheels and negotiated I was like, we got ready to cry. Well, you're all right, man.

1:29:35 And maneuvered him out of it. Yeah. So, I called him up the next day and asked him if that happened. He says, yes, it did. Now, we were on the phone quite a bit after that. It lasted over 25 years until it's passed. But I... That brought us together. So the thing that separated us brought us together. You know? That's special, man. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. And he, it didn't end. He had, they had a big place. I don't know what the house looked like. I guess it had a big basement downstairs. And his mom had an industrial sewing machine, weighed 500 pounds. And it was on a steel table.

1:30:25 And just enough room, basically, for that machine, maybe a little space. He walked down there and he told me, he said, that machine was laying on its side on the table. There was no earthquakes, no nothing. It went down his mom's machine. He asked for a sign, right? So he got that. And as I'm talking over the time, he went and looked at her bed. Her favorite was a red rose. There'd be red rose pebbles on her pillow and on her side of her bed. The last time I talked to him, about a year before I passed away, or most shortly after he passed away, not too long after the last time I talked to him, was in Washington.

1:31:22 And I said, Dr. Mackler, are you still getting any science? He says, yes. He says, the the red pebbles, they keep showing up on her bed. No way. Oh, that is wild. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild stuff, man. Wild stuff, but. Oh yeah. Isn't that something? It is. Yeah. It is wild. Ron, what a cool story. I, I got so many memories. I can just go over. I can, I can talk about it. That's why I'm so energetic about talk about it. Cause it, you know, it brings it back to life. I, uh, I really love him. You guys have a special relationship, for sure. I mean, 25 years is a long time to talk to someone like that.

1:32:05 Yeah, from early 1980 till, what was it, 2013 or whatever. Okay. He passed away. Wow, yeah, that sounds about right. But, man, I appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate you chatting today, dude. Okay. Let's make sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we got to end it because you know me. I'll keep talking. Oh, wow. But I want to tell you one more on that. It was kind of neat. All right. I had gotten into her since I got some money. I moved to Florida. And I gave Dr. Mackle a call. I hadn't talked to him in a while. And we talked. It was always good talking with him.

1:32:47 And he says. He says, Ronnie, Ronnie, he says, once. A year, he says, we have a cabinet out in the woods, him and two or three other scientists. And he says, we get together on the weekend and we just talk about things. And I said, Dr. Mack, now this is many years after that thing, but I said, is that invitations? He says, yes, it is. I say, can I talk about anything I want to talk about? He says, yes, you can. Pretty neat, huh? That is really cool. And it's like you never know when you start talking freely about stuff. that you believe in where it will lead to, right? You just never know.

1:33:36 And it's very cool. I was gonna say it sooner or later. I just pictured myself in the buffer. I thought I just was too premature, but it wasn't. The timing was perfect. Exactly, exactly. Because shortly after that is when that happened, his mom passed. Oh, wow. So that was, anyway, I'll let you go. Hey, let's pray real quick before I leave. Now I ain't got nobody to talk or visit with except my ghost. Okay. Hold on. Let's pray real quick. All right. Sorry. I'm chewing some ginger real quick. So, okay, here we go. I'm going to pray real quick. Okay, Ronnie. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Yes. Yes. Dear Jesus, thank you for this great day. We were able to talk with Ronnie and there are some things that did come up about the spiritual and the paranormal.

1:34:23 And we just want to make sure that any spiritual activity that is negative is bound and that the devil is bound. uh, from that conversation to people that are listening and to myself and to Ronnie so that we do not have to deal with that in any form after this. And thank you so much for a good conversation. You name it, man. Um, Yeah, dude, I take that stuff super serious. Now, man. Dude, we will hang out next year. I'm going to be back. I'm looking forward to it. We'll hang out and we'll chat and we'll have a good time, dude. Yeah, we'll take a lot of you. Thank you, man. I really appreciate it. It's both ways. All right. All right, well, later on.

1:35:04 You got it. We'll talk later, dude. You have a great rest of your day, okay, Ronnie? Thank you. You too. Thanks for the prayer, too. Yep. Bye. All right, bye. Before we wrap this episode, I want to say something directly to a very specific group of listeners. If you're in the military, any branch or forces, and if you've seen something that no one can explain, or if you're a national park ranger or forestry worker who's been told to stay quiet, if you're a pilot who's seen something strange down on the ground, or if you're with the FBI, a federal agency, or working intelligence, and you stumbled upon something you're not allowed to talk about, And if you're a firefighter, paramedic, or search and rescue responder who's heard screams or found tracks that didn't make sense, if you're in the logging industry on a remote oil field or a trucker with government contracts and you've had something happen that you've never told a soul, and if you're a biologist, a wildlife specialist, or a field researcher under contract who has found evidence you're not allowed to report, if you're a pastor, a missionary, or someone on a spiritual retreat, and you saw something that shook your faith, or if you work in the shadows, CIA, NSA, or anything with clearance, and you've seen what the public hasn't, then I want to talk to you. Even if it's anonymous, you can reach me at bigfootsociety at gmail.com. The world needs to

1:36:35 hear what you've been forced to carry alone, and you're not alone. You've got the story. We've got the mic. See you in the woods. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast. Every encounter we share reminds us that the world is bigger and stranger than we think and that the truth is often hiding just beyond the tree line. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the channel on YouTube. Hit the bell so you don't miss the next episode and share this with a friend who's into mysteries, monsters, or the unexplained. And if you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple Podcast, please follow the show there and leave us a five-star positive review because all that helps more people discover the show. And remember, if you or someone you know has had a Bigfoot sighting, please, I'd love to hear from you. So email me at bigfootsociety at gmail.com and let's start the conversation. If you haven't gotten a chance yet, check out our membership community over at www.bigfootsocietypodcast.com. And that's where you can hear tomorrow's episode today early and ad free and members only episodes every week. Also, it's a place to connect with other people that are into the Bigfoot subject as much as you are. Thanks again for following along with the Bigfoot Society. Until next time, keep your eyes open, trust your gut and never stop asking what else might be out there and see you in the woods.