Ambushed by Bigfoot in Washington

0:04 Welcome to the Bigfoot Society. In this episode, I talked to Kevin llewellyn, bigfoot researcher, about his multiple bigfoot encounters he's had over the years throughout the Pacific Northwest. You've experienced something similar to what Kevin has or have more information regarding Bigfoot or other cryptids in the same area, please reach out immediately to me after this episode. Remember, your encounter could be the key to unlocking this mystery once and for all, so please don't hesitate to contact me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. All right, big for Society, I've got the pleasure of talking to mister Kevin o'wellen from the Spokane, Washington area. Bigfooter out there. How's it going today, Kevin? Oh great, great, lots to talk about. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm a lifelong bigfoot enthusiast and I've lived in this area all my life and I graduated from Washington State University College of Veterinary Medicine and i was a veterinarian for thirty five years. Oh well yeah, recently retired though, and so that means more time to get out there in the woods. And as a veterinarian I like to approach things from a biology scientific angle and approach approach things first that way. But what got me started or got my interest in bigfoot was at the age of ten years I saw Roger Patterson present in person the Patterson Gimlin film here in Spokane, and that night I got his autograph. Later, I signed up for his bulletins. I sometimes referred to him as newsletters,

1:38 but he sent out, yeah, about three a year, and I had seven original bulletins from him that I kept all through my life, and just recently I thought, you know, I need to do something with this history. I mean, I had my original membership certificate that came with the bulletins and such and so all this, like you say, originally from Roger Patterson, and I recently donated them to the North American Bigfoot Center in Boring, Oregon. Cliff Barrickman's Yeah, that's one of the big takeaways I had from your book Incessantly Bigfooting that you can Get, which is a really well written book. It's very interesting. But I like how in that book you actually have quotes from Patterson's bulletins kind of interspersed through the chapters, which is really cool being able to read, you know, some parts of those bulletins that that Roger Patterson would send out. So you were a very young individual.

2:42 I would imagine when you saw Patterson present that film, do you remember anything, you know, anything that struck you, you know, being able to see him present, like what came across to you as how he was as a person or anything like that, or yeah. I still remember, Okay, these guys on stage in cowboy boots and I still remember that. And then I remember the film coming on and you know, on the big screen like that in the Spokane Colisseum, and my mind was just you know, like, look at that animal, look at that move. That's an animal, that's not a person in a suit. Yeah, and I still yeah, just you know, and that's just been with me all my life.

3:28 Was that was my first thoughts. You know, that's an animal. What approximate year was that? Would you say? It would have been that I can't remember the month, and I you know, and I wish I would have had I don't know if they gave out any kind of official tickets or anything, would have had an original Yeah, that would have been something too, to go along with getting his autograph from that. But but anyway, you know, he did this tour, so he actually he was down in Portland and Salem, Oregon. He was in in Idaho, can't remember all those different places. Was he in Missoula, Montana? And so he did this tour before going to Vancouver, British Columbia. And that's where all the primatologists psycho people gathered to watch the film, was in Vancouver, British Columbia.

4:17 Oh interesting, Okay, that's really cool. So this is probably take place a few years after sixty seven then, well just actually months oh it was months after this month really, And when I signed up for his bulletins, my original membership certificate, it was dated like March of sixty nine. Oh wow. So yeah, so he was doing he was all involved after of course October of sixty seven. And of course he was all involved though that next those next several months and that next year with you know the film and yeah, and everybody analyzing the film. Oh yeah, yeah, and then he yeah, and then he got his his Bigfoot association, his research association going and put out like say, put out these newsletters and six dollars a year back then, and so that's awesome. I signed up the first of nineteen sixty nine. Then I signed up for it. Really was the original Bigfoot Patreon, you know Patterson's club. That's amazing. Yeah, everything you were talking about, you know, the quotes and that and the things that he wrote in those newsletters that he his thinking was. I mean, we're still doing the same things now or things now that he was wanting to do and doing back then. His thinking was far ahead. And yeah,

5:48 he was so wild. He Yeah, he knew Bigfoot was. Was Bob Gimmelin on stage during that as well. No, it's just my lack of information. Yeah, if you go check with the history, follow the history, you know there was a separation there. Oh that's right. Yeah, yeah about that, okay, gotcha, gotcha. So some other gentlemen that were involved there, Yeah there was okay, he gotcha? All right? Fair enough. Wow. The cool thing that you mentioned, you've already mentioned it. But people can go to the North American BIGFA Center and they can see your stuff that you donated. And I believe it was twenty eleven, Cliff has that up on. You know, people can actually see and he took a cast, made a copy of one of your bigfoot casts as well.

6:34 Right, Yeah, I had a sighting and I was fortunate enough to have a track there then, and I got a cat. I was on the hillside where it went over the embankment from the four service road, the logging road, and there on the hillside was this track. And we walked up to it and the first thing that I know, there was a big toe. But then the also so the first almost what caught my attention more was there was this like little toe that was angled out and it had pushed it had slid and pushed up dirt in front of the toes. And I always try to take pictures of any possible track that I find, and not just one picture from above. We see that all the time, right, everybody wants to take a picture from above, they put their boot by it.

7:24 But with due to light angles, you should take five pictures of each track from the front, from the back, from each side, and from above. And so I walked up to it and was going to take start taking pictures and I actually slipped on the hillside and slid on my head. Wow, And so I just you know, yeah, so I'm like, forget the pictures. I need to try to cast this thing, and I the cast material was starting to run downhill. Of course I was panicking. I was like, oh no, this isn't gonna this isn't gonna work. But the cast did turn out very well. And Cliff barrickman Yah made copies of it, and he has then a copy. I have the original, but he has a copy on display at the North American big Foot Center.

8:11 And so it on the you know how these forest service roads, these logging roads are cut into the hillsides, and so on the left was this the hillside going up. And on my right then was the drop off going downhill. And there was this boulder that was like three and a half feet high and I measured later approximately three and a half feet high, three and a half feet wide, extended up the road for four and a half feet. And I look up come around this corner, and I look up ahead, and I see black between this boulder and the hillside on the left. But I, you know, but there's black decaying wood all over the forest.

8:52 So I didn't think anything of it, you know, And so but I kept approaching this boulder and the road had to curve around it just a little bit and it was really narrow at that spot. So my focus went to the you know, like, okay, I got to creep around this boulder, you know, yeah, and paying attention to how the road went there, just wide enough to get around it. And all of a sudden, this figure leaped out in frontly behind the boulder. Yeah, and so I did not see a face. This was side view, but it was in the air it leaped and yeah and so and there was no nose, no ears. You know, it was black short hair or bear length hair.

9:39 And some people may say, you know, well you saw a bear, but it was there. There was no nose, there were no front legs, there were no arms out, even though it reminded me of like if I was looking side from the side view at a quarter at a linebacker lunging to tackle a quarterback. Okay, wow, so this is we asked, So if that gives you an idea, then and so, and it was about the size of a football player like that, about the size of like a linebacker and so, like I say, no arms even stretched out. And what really confused me, when I really had to process for a while, was there was these things sticking up and it was like it's like a wing tip. It reminded, you know, my mind. Your mind goes to common things that you see, and so it's like a raven wing you know, crow, a wingtip? What is this? Well, after a while I realized its arms were back along its sides and its hand was sticking up. Then and it's the fingers that I saw sticking up. I see picture that I've seen that imagery in other places too. I can't remember where, but that sounds so familiar. Wow. Yeah, and if it was a bear. And then so then my great friend and fellow investigator and his wife were in their car behind me, and they and this road was getting overgrown and it even dead ended back up whatever a couple of miles later.

11:11 But anyway, the bows were growing into the road, you know. And of course my truck gets scratched up. I don't know when I come back from trips, I don't know what's more scratched up, me or my truck, you know. And so but anyway, there were bows sticking out on the road and it landed on the edge of the road before going down over the embankment on my right side. And I could see this like a black butt you know, part of the body. Yeah, and but there were boughs sticking out and so anyway, it went over the embankment, we got out, it came to a stop. We got out, and my friend says, well, look, it almost was like there's two impressions here, like maybe we're two feet landed. And then we looked over the looked yeah, I looked over the embankment and there was this little clear area right there.

11:56 You know, he didn't go into the timber. There was a little bit of an open spot on this hillside, and that's where it's like when I'm like, well, look, you know, there's like there's something there. There's like a track, a skid mark, you know. And then even further down below that was a true skid mark, you know, no track, just a slide, a skid. So if it was a bear, there should be should have been four tracks for side marks, for four legs. This was like something on two legs. Wow. So like I say, so, then we got I got the cast that that turned out well, and it's good to practice casting, you know anything. I've got some casts of cougar tracks that show the claws. So yeah, so you know, when you're out there, you know, hey, make a cast of whatever, bear track, a cougar track, just practice. What material do you find best, is best works for you? I love the dental stone. Okay, I haven't heard that yet. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, it's even a little bit you know, all the chemical I don't know all the chemistry was the materials. But it's maybe even a little better than the hydrocal Yeah. Yeah, that one comes up a lot when I talked to researchers, So a few follow up questions on that. So you were able to were you able to get a really good look at the bigfoot's face?

13:24 No, because it was sideways, gotcha? Gotcha? Yeah, I went sideways. And so it was like and before we turned, we were on another four service road, and then we turned up this one and we were climbing up there a little bit, and but down where we turned there was a couple elk. They weren't spooky, they weren't running, they were just standing there, and we drove by them. So, you know, I was a big foot out to following the elk or seeing where they were at, or chasing them. You know, maybe I who knows, or maybe they didn't have one didn't have anything to do with the other. But then did it hear us coming up the road and it was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to jump behind this. I'm going to get down behind this boulder, and so yeah, and so it was trying to hide.

14:07 And then as we kept approaching, I was getting closer and you know, and I can't tell you exactly the distance, but because I was moving and I can't even tell you how fast I was going, I don't know if I was doing five miles an hour, ten fifteen miles an hour, and I'm getting closer to this boulder, and then it was like and then it was like, oh, you know, I got to get out of here. I was trying to hide. If it was trying to hide behind that bullet So, how often, you know, probably in my opinion, all the time, do they get down on all fours to hide? Do they get down on the brush. Do they stand behind a tree and let us walk right by? They remain motionless, they can blend in with the terrain and just hot. Yeah. So one thing that Roger Patterson and that said too in those bulletins of his, was that he believed that, yeah, they can completely elude us if they so desire. Sure. I believe that as well, and maybe for a few different reasons that you know, science doesn't fully understand yet. Who knows, but that that sighting is that's incredible, That's an incredible story. Have there been other Bigfoot reports evidence found in that same area or yeah? Great question, because actually I do travel around the Pacific Northwest. Yeah, exactly, and yeah, and I go check out areas where there have been reports, and so this area there was.

15:31 I did a report, you know, interviewed somebody. It was a Class B, A strong class B, which is not a sighting, not you know, So I did a strong Class B in that area. And then my friend and I had been there the summer before and we had some stuff that we heard, and so then we decided to go back and we decided to go a little bit further north, and then that's when we were going into this area. Yeah, very cool. Let's rewind a little bit. Was there a you know, you had the probably super influential you know, watching the copy of the film or maybe even the original film presented by Roger Patterson a few months after the sixty seven siting roughly about I mean this a fifty fifth anniversary. Was there a certain point though after that in your life where you know, you had something that really like clicked it in, like, okay, I want to super look for Bigfoot now? Or was it that initial you know, seeing the film that just set you on this path through your entire life? Oh? Well, I kept you of course, my interest then was sky high and so and our local newspaper would carry articles down then back then, and and so I would cut those out.

16:51 I kept my ears, yeah, I and I just kept my ears open for any reports about somebody seeing a bigfoot. And of course back then there there was no social media, right, and so yeah, with my age that I'm at now and so but anyway, back then, yeah, I just had to you know, things came through the grapevine and just like you know, well did you hear there was a sighting? You know, and I'm like where, you know where in northeast Washington, you know, and that at what time of day was it? And things like that, and so just kind of you know, in the memory banks things would go and so yeah, I just and my dad was an avid outdoorsman, you know, he had me out there in the woods when I you know, could barely keep up with them walking. Yeah, and so, and of course he would say, you know, I was like, Oh, I've hunted all over you know, eastern Washington and this and that. I don't believe in bigfoot. I don't think it's out there, you know. But when I would be out there, I just you know, kept my eyes and ears open and just you know, just in case. Nice. Yeah, a few questions in my mind right now, just randomly. I want to ask you, because it sounds like you've been involved with big footing for a long time, a period of bigfoot history that I think is really interesting.

18:10 It's probably because of my age as well. What was it like researching bigfoot in the nineteen nineties. I actually I heard my first Ohio Howell before it was even called Ohio how I had heard things like that before i'd been paralleled, you know, the bigfoot behavior of paralleling and I you know, and things like that. And if I would have known back then what I know now, or what I've developed now, my approach that I have now, if I would have had that back then, I could have maybe had even more encounters or heard more things than too. And so because now I approach things that you know, I want to just have them be curious of what I'm doing. I want to then have them feel comfortable of what I'm doing out there and going camping and such. And I want them to come into camp or hang around camp. I want to learn, you know, what is attracting them? What are they interested in if they come into camp, what are they doing? What's attracting them? You know, are they going to play with a camp stove or what, you know anything. It's like, I want to know, and I want them to come back, you know, then feel comfortable to come back the next nights. And we've had those then have been fortunate to have a lot of different encounters and experiences, and we've actually had that a number of times where they have come into camp,

19:42 you know, night after we go into their tents. And I do believe, yeah, I do believe that they know what the sound of a tent zipper means. You know, they see us come in. They you know, well, no, but we're talking about you know about these things like this, crazy things like tent zipper. Well, don't you think they've watched us go in and out of our tents? So this is I reacted that way because there's an experience I had in the expedition where I captured some audio at three forty five in the morning in Iowa, and it's regarding a zipper, and it was no one in camp that actually manned the zipper.

20:25 Have have you ever had experiences where you've had a big foot, you know, mess around with a zipper or anything like that. Or I've had my tent shaken multiple times. Okay, I've had rubbing on the vestibule of my tent, you know, and things like that. And then one time when we had them excuse me, when we had them coming in to camp, it was it the I can't remember the second or third night, and my one friend and fellow investigator. Her tent was, you know whatever, thirty feet away from mine. Oh yeah, just over from and anyway, what I had gone into my tent, you know, get my boots off and everything like that. I'm standing over my sleeping bag, not even in there yet, and I hear her say hello, oh no, and they there was rubbing on two sides of her tent and she had this It wasn't that she had some kind of this fly. It wasn't really her vestibule, but there was like a zipper there on the fly of the tent, and she heard that zipper go up start. That's when she and that's when she said hello. And I'm standing there over my sleeping bag, and I'm like, what already, I'm not even in the sick yet. And it's like and she and they're already they've already come into camp. Like say, so you you explain that to me rubbing on two sides. It's not a bear pushing its nose into the side of the tent or anything like that, you know.

21:56 So I often will say to people, Okay, you explain that to me, rubbing on two sides of her tent. She hears a zipper move and that woe. Yeah, you know, and so yeah, and you know, that's what we want. That's what I want, you know. I want them to feel comfortable to come into camp, you know, like that night after night, have experiences like I have other people, you know, you have experiences. And then like I say, and I'm learning, you know, then yeah, what are they doing? What are they attracted to? I want to learn about their behavior. When I read a report, when I interview somebody or read any report, talk to somebody, I'm like, well, what was the behavior of the bigfoot? What was the bigfoot doing? What were the people doing? You know, somebody will say, well, we just finished cooking dinner, you know, over the campfire, and I'm like, well, what was what was for dinner? What were you cooking? Yeah? What was the smell? Have you found you know, in your many different expeditions, have you found that there are certain things you were doing in camp? Maybe there was you know, you know, something you were always doing that seemed to attract them in or was it just mainly random? Yeah, just random stuff. But also my approach.

23:18 Part of my approach is that if I have to be their entertainment, Okay, yeah, so I'm not a musician, but I do carry a wooden flute Native American cool wood flute with me Monica all right, so and so yeah I'll try those. And yeah, I've heard of you know, I have a few friends researchers. Uh, you know, Ron man Reads used a digord before, Tate Hieronymous used to guitar before. There's all sorts of wild things that you know, it's getting their attention enough to have them come in. So I totally get what you're saying, what do you remember was there a point, you know, looking back over the years where you finally were you know, there's no social media, there's no internet. Do you remember the point where you were able to finally find your like minded you found your first other bigfoot researcher and it wasn't just you doing stuff by yourself anymore?

24:18 Or did you have people with you from the very get go. I've been well, I've been fortunate that virtually all my family are wow yeah bigfoot in that huge Yeah. So I mean, you know, just yeah, to just you know, have family there in camp. That's like, you know, yeah, we hear something, you know, and then you know, everybody questions, could you know, could that have been a Bigfoot or not? You know, and and so yeah that and then that brings me to a couple of things too. So yeah, I've been fortunate, like say, to be with family members and sure, yeah, but then that brings me to a couple of points also that you know, when you're out there camping and you hear something, it's like, I like to have two or more Bigfoot related things vocalizations or whatever or you know, so so so yeah, you hear a howl in the woods. Well, there's lots of things that howl in the woods, So can you give me some more something else? Did you hear howls wood knocks? Did you go look for tracks the next day? Did you find yeah, possible tracks, you know, things like that. And then also, I always like to say and keep in mind that almost all of the time it's going to be something else other than Bigfoot. But sometimes it can't be anything else except bigfoot. So but so if you have that, if I have that in my mind, then even if I see a track, rather than like, oh, there's a

25:51 bigfoot track, No, the first I want to first thing in my mind is I want to rule out is that a bare double step track? Exactly? Yeah? That bear, you know? And you know one time my friend fell investigator. We studied this track along a little tiny stream and I don't know, I don't know how long we studied that thing, you know, And I was about ready to go. We couldn't tell if it was a bear double step or bigfoot. I was about ready to get go up back to the truck and get the casting material. When we'd been there for so long that the light angle changed and I mentioned, you know, lightnings looking at tracks and it's like the light angle changed and all of a sudden we started to see something and I'm like, oh, that could be a claw, a bare claw, you know, like that's like, no, this looks like a bear double step. So but I like, I say, you know, that's why I like to get down on my knees and have my face right over a track. I like to you know, you need to look at it from different angles, you know, I get down on your knees, look at it from the left, from the right, you know this, And so, yeah, we have pictures all over social media, but pictures just don't do it, do them justice. You know, the tracks a lot of times there's just one picture, you know, and I wasn't there. I didn't see what somebody else was how they were examining a track or anything like that. So yeah, I just don't comment

27:22 on like pictures like that. Yeah, like I say, I wasn't there many times because of the light angles that a picture just doesn't do it justice. So you're going so you're going on, you know, you have your family expeditions over the years where you know you're pretty much going hunting. Are you going camping with your family but also looking for big fit at the same time. It's kind of how that sounds like to me. But also you've been involved with many actual BFRO expeditions. Correct, Yeah, I've organized, Okay, and approximately how many of those do you think you've been involved with over the years. I believe i've co led, you know, like been a co leader. I like to have a co leader, and I believe seven that officially. Yeah, but then I've been on others though, too.

28:08 Okay, yeah, okay, but just as yeah, just as a leader co leader. Interesting, is are there any of those that stand out in your memories where you're like, wow, we had some really crazy stuff happen on that expedition that you could share. Oh, the very first one that I went on, very first, Yeah, very first BFRO expedition that I went on, and I wrote about that in the Incessantly Big Footing where there was an encounter I was involved with along with two other people, and I almost consider it more rare than a sighting, or as rare than sighting, because we listened to this deer on the hillside right after dark and we could follow it because it was blowing and blowing, and like I said, you'll have to it out in the book because I have it all detailed.

29:02 Yeah, when I got back to camp, my short term memory was just there and I took notes. I wrote down then what happened, the sequence of events and then and so have that in my Bigfoot journal, and so that I put in the book is right out of my notes, right out of my journal, And so it basically to kind of sum up the story, though without going into a ton of details that was in there. It looked like we actually interrupted a deer hunt that they were doing. They yeah that. Yeah, Like I say, you just have to go through the details and everything before and then even the next morning when we went to look for tracks and that on that hillside, and yeah, it was like there was we think there was four of them, three at the minimum that actually had like a deer drive a deer ambush tent. I mean, you can only imagine you probably wouldn't want to step in front of a few bigfoot as they're trying to hunt some deer that they might not respond kindly to that.

30:11 So that's I don't know how I would react in that situation. Wow, yeah, yeah, I mean you know, there's been people witnesses that have seen, you know, bigfoot carrying a deer. Oh sure, you think, oh yeah, you know, and things like that. Yeah, but it's like we just we had this thing unfold and it was like, you know, it's like they were hunting this thing. It's like they had it corralled on the hillside. And yeah, well one when we got back to camp and the deer did not we did not hear the deer escaped, Okay, yeah, I got cha. Got yeah, So the deer because of what we started doing, and then that that messed things up. And so the deer did get away. And the one lady back at camp said, oh, I'm glad the deer got away. And so you know, but yeah, yeah, do you when you go out and expedition over the years, have you had a recorder out and been capturing audio? Yes? Okay, have you captured any cool stuff on audio? Well, all kinds of things, I mean everything from mew bobcats Oh yeah, okay, yeah sure, so you know, and the audio really helps. I mean when you're awakened in the middle of the night and you know, and it sure sounds like there's something whooping there's wooze. But I review my audio and it's like, no, those were owls. Yeah exactly. Yeah, So the audio really helps you confirm and it helps you rule out things then and it helps

31:45 you confirm what you did here, and so the audio is valuable that way. The yes, I had something that popping in my mind to an example, oh, the one one time they had heard some other people had heard some wood knocks, okay, and I can't remember if they had heard three or four. There there was answering back and forth. So when I checked my audio and listening to it closely, I counted off in the distance. Then too, word knocks. I counted eleven. Yeah, so it can help you. So yeah, it's like, okay, yeah, somebody in camp heard like three wood knocks or whatever, three or four. You go to your audio and wow, I counted eleven. So yeah, so yeah, the audio is valuable. I'm not a believer much, and I use them, but I'm not really have much confidence with trail cameras. I believe that they can they know that they're there, they can see them. I hear that a lot where yeah, that seems to be the consensus. Where lest you could get a non electronic trailcam. Good luck. Yeah, they just it's something is given off and it wigs them out. I don't know, but yeah, something I wanted to talk to you about that I found interesting is you were actually involved with the Jack Osborne and Jason Muse Bigfoot special on Discovery Plus. How did you know, walk me through? How did

33:16 that come about that you just get randomly contacted or how was that? Well, because I have published reports BFRO, So yeah, so those reports are out there to the public, you know, and yeah, they read the reports of what's going on in the past in an area. And so yeah, I was contacted and then other investigators too, but yeah, I was on there. My part was a campfire scene, a campfire sit down with Jack Osborne and Jason Muse and everything. Everybody was a blast and those two and the entire crew and so everybody was great. And it was filmed in North Idaho, Okay, Yeah, and so you'll get a glimpse of beautiful North Idaho and and yeah it was great. And so it's just it's streaming on Discovery Plus. Right, Yeah, Yeah, that's cool. That's cool.

34:14 Have you been involved with any other media like that over the years or not really not too much. Okay, no that way all right, man, this has been a extremely fun chat. I've talked to another a few other investigators that have been on THEFO expeditions and it's always fun. Let's say you have someone new coming to the expedition or like they're a newer investigator, right, are there certain things that like you want to make sure that they know before they come in with the rest of the investigators on the expedition. Well, yeah, everybody has their own approach, you know, doing things, and if it's working for you, keep doing what you're doing doing, you know. But so you know, every leader or you know, every expedition is going to have maybe a little different angle, different approach you know, to but like I say, my approach then is to get them the new people then too is get them thinking about and share with them things to do to get Yeah, to bring up the curiosity of bigfoot. You know that if they're in the area at all, they hear you, they hear us coming into the area, they know we're there. Yeah, unless they're you know, thirty miles away. But so yeah, if they're around, we want to you know, encourage encounters and get some experiences for people and

35:46 the like I say, I encourage them to think out of the box of different things to try and do and get that curiosity going. So very nice. Have you over the years, you know, been out in the woods looking for Bigfoot investigating? Have you ever run into anything that you couldn't explain but you're pretty sure it wasn't bigfoot related any like weird stuff happened when you're out in the woods. It was kind of like, I don't know what's going on here? Yeah, oh you mean, like I mean, it's it's a pretty open ended question. Kevins, that's wherever you want to take it. But yeah, okay, give me like lights, yeah, yeah, some people bring up lights, you know anything. It's like, that's weird. I'm not sure what's good. Like, oh, I've seen flashes of lights go through the forest. One time, I believe it was like snow lightning because oh cool, yeah, because like there was a front coming in and like half hour later, an hour later started snowing on us.

36:54 So I believe at one time that you like, say it was snow light that if that's what they call it. But I've seen flashes of light through the woods. I've seen the orbs balls of the right too. I've had one time I had strange lights go across the wall of my tent. Wow. And so yeah, so yeah, you know, and I of course some people, yeah, try to associate these things with bigfoot, you know, and that, and I'm just like, you know, And the one time that I had the lights on my tent wall, I had my pop up shade canopy out in front of my tent also had a shade wall on it too, and I had rubbing on the shade wall and tapping on the roof of the shade canopy before these lights occurred. And you know, and yeah, so I so you know, so it's like, okay, could that have been a big foot? Is this bigfoot behavior or a bigfoot?

38:00 Counter? But then these lights and so these things that I've seen like like that, I it's I just leave it as a mystery. I'm not going to try to explain it, you know, what was going on, you know, but I do try to do you know, recreations. And I yeah, and that's important too if you can, and like say even if you well, first of all, let me say with the lights, yeah, I use you know, different kind of flashlights, headlamps, a couple of different models of headlamps and things like that. And I was trying to this there was some kind of a flashlight or somebody in camp. Of of course you ask around the next morning, you know, you know, were you shining a flashlight? Right? And so you investigate and follow up do things that I do recreation and so even like it's not recreating seeing a bigfoot, but like this summer too, there was three of us in the morning.

38:55 We were hiking this trail and not a trail, that's a Forest Service trail that has a trailhead and the parking spots. You know, at the start of it. We were back in the mountains on this trail and we were paralleled. We have this paralleling Well yeah, so you know, so I say, well, recreate it. Well, how do you recreate a paralleling experience? Well, we went out the same time the next morning, same weather conditions, same thing, and there was no sounds. There was none of the branch breaks, twig snaps, the thumping that was happened the first morning. Wow. Yeah, So you so if you can follow up on things like that, you know, if if you see a bigfoot can you go back, And a lot of people are afraid. They don't want to hunters, we'll see a bigfoot. They don't want to go, they give up hunting. They don't, they don't. But if you can go back and look for tracks and things like that, you know, and if you do have the chance, if something like say is following you or paralleling you, you have some kind of an encounter like that, try to recreate it. Go back. Okay, So, like just a week ago, the hunting seasons here in northeast Washington are in full swing and the deer season is on. And I was out there. I was in a deer stand and there were these dough and out in front of me, and they were just blowing and blowing and down at the other end of the meadow and the

40:28 opening there was more blowing back at them. And the first thing, you know, that I think of, is, well, okay, have they caught scent of me? You know, yeah, they're doing that. If everybody, if all your listeners know what the blowing that the deer do like that that they're taking in the scent and then they expel the air out, so all of a sudden, then there's a wood knock behind me, followed by a light tat I call it more of a tap thank, And I'm like, you know, I'm of course I'm watching these deer. And then I'm like, what a knock? You know, what's that? Well? Was it a knock? And then after that knock occurred, the deer did settle down. But it's weird. Well but what but everything that knocks in the forest is not a bigfoot would knock? Could have been a tree that was cooling down with the temperatures. You know, it was an hour before sunset, and so could it have been a tree that had popped or was popping. Well, I was back there in that same deer stand fought for three afternoons following that, and I never heard any tree pop. That's interesting and similar weather exactly. Yeah, we've had Yeah, we've had a weather pattern here that's just been the same thing every day, warm, away, above average temperatures and until the last two days now we've got rain. So but yeah, I was out there, and so that's where if you can,

42:00 like I say, you know, so, yeah, that's it's some wild stuff. Yeah, and try to you know, and so then try to keep investigating, like that try to follow up, you know, like, Okay, well, yeah, was that just a tree that popped? Was popping a couple of times? Well go back under the same weather conditions, go back the next day and see are you hearing trees do that? Or yeah, that's a great idea. I like. Yeah, I like the word investigate because it implies that we're being a detective. You know, we're looking into this, We're following up on things and looking into things.

42:42 There's a few questions that I always like to ask, especially people I talked to that are primarily focused on bigfoot, so they're pretty straightforward to so, what do you believe that bigfoot is? How do you describe what we're dealing with. I think they are you know, primate, you know, and very close to us. I think they're very close to us, and I think they're intelligent and they know how to hide and escape from us, you know, for to hardly be seen at all, you know. I mean I guess my own sighting that I had what was it trying to hide behind that boulder thinking that we would not see it and then But anyway, yeah, I do think that they As a veterinarian, I approach things, you know, biologically, yeah, and everything like that. And even with of course population you know, people, well, how many do you think are out there? You know, and this and that, it's like, well, who, you know, pick a number? Who knows? We know, nobody really can. Nobody really knows, but we can ask me.

43:50 And so biologically though, I think it was twenty seventeen, the American Scientist had an article and these yeah, and these science we're trying to come up with a population number, kind of a minimum number for well and what they were doing though too, is they were doing plants and animals. But yeah, like rare plants, how many would it take to keep that species going? And or if it's you're talking about some rare frog or some kind of a mammal. They came up with a number then that five thousand would be a great number for long term evolutionary success. Wow. They said that five hundred would probably then you know, would maybe be enough to stop a lot of inbreeding. So but five thousand would be you know, definitely a great number for long term success. So I look at things like that. Then it's like, you know, okay, you know, here's there's some numbers there, but when it comes to bigfoot, I don't know. I'm not going to stay. Yeah, I mean I've heard a number I've heard, you know, a number like in Idaho. You know, it's like, oh, there's so many in IOLs. It's like, I think there's more than that, you know, and so yeah, and you want to like say you can't have a lot of inbreeding. I think a lot of sightings then, especially crossing highways and things like that, or maybe young males that

45:20 are traveling Okay, yeah, sure, migrating or traveling long miles to go find and start a family unit of their own. Yep, yep, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot of people I've talked to where I'm from Iowa, they think that the primary population is there's a it's a migration thing going through the state, definitely. And here in the Pacific Northwest, I mean, you know, obviously they don't know where the Washington Idaho state line is or the Canadian state line, so we can't. So if you're talking about populations, it's like, well, okay, we got to look at British Columbia, we got to look at Cascade, Washing Cascades, Northeas, Washington, North, Idaho. You know. Yeah, so you got to start looking at all of that and not just saying well there's yeah, there's a family unit here, there's a family unit there. It's like, has there been a piece of evidence that has been most influential to you over the years as a researcher. Well, of course having the sighting and then getting a track to go. Yeah, so it's you know, there's two things right there, sighting and something else follow up and we found I didn't find it, but it was part of the group that I was with some others found some hair. Yeah, and it did not have you know, the bone marrow type center and we had it checked and analyzed and so yeah,

46:52 so anyway, yeah, things like that, look you know, looking for if you see one, and we were talking about trying to have two or more things with an encounter. So if you see one, if there really is one peeking out from behind a tree looking at you, then can you go back later and look for hair? Oh yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, that's a good point. So yeah, like last year, we had these couple guys where they didn't see it because it stopped behind this really large tree and then there was a group of fur trees right around it. But they were like bluff charged. They had this charge that charged towards yeah, and stopped and they said it sounded like a racehorse breathing back there.

47:38 Wow, So what do we do? We go back the next morning and so what do we want to do. We want to rule out elk. So we were looking for elk track. Was an elk breathing you know or something like that. We we were looking then for elk tracks right there where it stopped, and we were combing the bark for hair, you know a little. Yeah. We couldn't fight anything, but that's what you want to do, you know. It's like okay, yeah, follow up with things like that. And one last there one more thing to add too is I always say push the record button, get video, not just pictures. We want to see Oh yeah, that's a good point. Okay, we want to see arm swinging. We want to see you know, a head turn, legs moving. Okay, So no more pictures on social media.

48:28 Video, We want video. You want the evidence, the video evidence, yes, what you're saying, yeah, not just the photos with the red circles around them. Yeah, there's a question. I almost forgot to ask you when you're so, let's say you're going to your base camp for you know, your expedition base camp. When do you start recording to catch sounds. What's your viewpoint on that? Well? Right away? Yeah, okay, yeah, I mean, you know, get an audio recorder hung out there right way, and and so, and of course we can get into battery life and things like that. You can, you know, you don't have to spend a lot of money on audio recorders. I do have a couple that were fairly expensive, the Wildlife Acoustics audio recorders, and I can program them. I can have them come on an hour before sunset, two hours before sunset. I can have them run twenty four hours a day, and so a lot of times I'll have them come on, you know, one or two hours before sunset and you know, and run to an hour or two hours after sun rise. But then the problem is, yeah, so then the problem is if you hear something that's thirty minutes before my audio recorder has come on that it's programmed to come on. If you hear something thirty minutes beforehand, it's like, oh no, I didn't have the audio going. So but yeah, those something like that is really nice where I can set the program or have you know, like say have it come on

49:59 off and then the battery life you know, it'll go for yeah yeah, oh yeah weeks then yeah, programmed. From that, I'm gathering that there are certain times of day that are most important to make sure you're recording for potential bigfoot sounds to happen. Yeah, not only big sounds, but and then like say other things then too, just drink that are out at night, you know, like say that the one time and listen to my audio and there's like yeah, right, and it's like what you know, that's not what I'm listening for. It's like, oh, okay, the bobcat walked under the audio recorder totally. Yeah. So so yeah, you know, so you like say, there's a lot more things in the forest or more the things that are more common in the forest than bigfoot, So a lot of times you're gonna hear something that's not bigfoot, and so that's where then yeah, having the audio going like that. Man, it would be cool if there would be a way to deploy an audio recorder to a place before you drive into it, so you can like get if there, you know, if there's like warning knocks or something as you're driving into the area.

51:12 Well, I've had that. I've had that happen. Oh really, I pulled you know, we know that there's a camp site you know that's been used for years and years. You know, the fire ring is there, and I'm going to meet my friend there or something like that. You know, it's like, okay, well, let's we'll meet at that camp site, you know or whatever. And I pull in there and I step out of my truck and knocks greet me. Wow, So I've oh, yeah, I've had that happen, you know. So there. So then again, the you know, I believe they're smart. They're watching places where people camp or do they have you know, a sentry, a spy you know that's there that's watching different camp sites. You know, so they know when we get there, when we come in. And then it's a matter of you know, it's like okay, hey, you know, we mean no harm. You know, we want you to be curious of what we're doing. Yep, and try to get them like, you know, oh, what are these people doing. You know, they're having some fun here, you know, they're exactly look like they're look while they're hunting, you know, the deer or anything. Yeah, it's like that's funny. Over the years, have you been primarily focused on Bigfoot or have there been other cryptids that you've been interested in Splash looked into. Is it just primarily been Bigfoot? Yeah, primarily Bigfoot. You know, I'm open to you know, other stories and listening about things, you know, and yeah, and maybe when I'm interviewing somebody, something will come up about some other you know,

52:45 cryptid and yeah, it's like, oh listen, you know to it and everything like that. But as far as you know, yeah, like doing reports for the bf R O, you know, yeah, you know, it's big for sure. Yeah. And I've even heard that seen that said. You know, it's like, well, how come there's not any dog man reports on you know b f R. You know, yeah, where is the name word dog man in? Yeah, field researchers. You know, it's like, oh, I look up the North American dog Man Project, you know, right, Yeah, and so yeah, yeah, I'm in the bigfoot. Yeah. Okay, have you gotten dog man reports from your areas or people that try to give you dog man stuff? I've heard one investigator saw something that he wasn't sure what was And I've had I like say, I've had some other you know, I'm not going to say what they were with. Yeah, but they're yeah, some different, some weird stuff things. Yeah, some weird stuff out there. Yeah, a lot of mysteries. And that's what I love. That's exactly you know why I do this and try to figure out the weird mysteries of the world.

53:52 And there's a lot of it is focused on you know, cryptis in Bigfoot hence the name. But Kevin, it's been extremely fun and enlightening talking to you today. I want to make sure, you know, to give you the chance if there's anything we haven't covered that you were wanting to make sure you know that we cover, you know, now is the chance to throw it on in or anything like that. Yeah. I just you know, following up with like you know, like when I mentioned you know, yeah, you're getting their attention you were setting up camp, Yeah, get their attention, you know. And it's like, well, I think too that their eyes their eyesight is so good, you know, they can tell are we pulling? Am I pulling my walking stick out of my truck? Or am I pulling a rifle. Wow. Yeah, so I think they they know, you know, they can tell. And so that's you know, like I say, everybody has their own approach. But you know, over the years, I've been able to come up with mine, my approach, and I like it, and I'm going to keep trying it, and it's playing on their curiosity. And yeah, and remember, uh press the record buttony press the record. But guys, that's that's for sure, Kevin.

55:06 Awesome chat today. Do you mind taking a few minutes reminding people how they can either keep up to date with what you're doing or you know, you know, I definitely want to mention your book again, all that good stuff you got going on. Yeah, it's i'd like I say, I did write the little book. It's an easy read, a fun read, and like say, my sense of humor does take over a little later in the book, and so you should get it should be fun to read. And I'd recommend, you know, to read it through and then read it through a second time because I think you're going to pick up on bigfoot behaviors and things that I'm referring to. Even though I'm maybe having some fun with what I've what are has happened with myself and my friends and fellow investigators, and so I make a little fun of the technology or whatever that we're doing.

55:53 But yet it's based on true stories. You know then too and so but you'll have some fun with it. And I have the Bigfoot behaviors and investigating big Foot in there things to do and what we were doing, and you know, then I make fun of it a little bit. But yeah, it's and I do have it's available on Amazon. I do have a second book that's about seventy five eighty percent written, Oh awesome, that I'm working on. Yeah, and but I think you'll have fun with this one. The cover was a photo that I took of the sun setting behind Mount Rainier in the Washington Cascades. So if you open up, open up the book like this, there's Mount Rainier like that. And so, yeah, have fun out there. Be safe, you know, I know my dad taught me from the very beginning. Hey, you know, the woods are in the mountains are wonderful, they're fantastic, but they can also be dangerous.

56:52 So yeah, stay safe and have fun out there. Love it. Thanks so much for coming on, Thank you for having me. Just wanted to take a few and it's to say thank you to you all my listeners for listening to the podcast. Please take a minute to help out the show by subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so you don't miss any notifications, and share the episode on YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us on a podcast, thank you so much, make sure that you're subscribed share the show with a friend. Really, it's all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've had a Bigfoot encounter related to the following, or know someone who has, please reach out to me at Big for Society at gmail dot com or pass on my email. Here's the list specifically, looking to talk to people that were directly involved with the events in Ho Nabi, Oklahoma around January of two thousand, could be even the years leading up to that in the years afterwards. Also, if you are involved with the Washita expedition in two thousand and one, I would love to talk to you as well. I'm looking for people that were directly involved with the events in that timeframe in the Ho Nabi, Oklahoma area. Thank you.

58:10 A special thank you to all the Big for Society, Patreon and YouTube channel members, it's your support that helps keep the show going and I extremely appreciate it.