Quadrupedal Sasquatch Stalks Deer Near Owensboro, Forcing a Harrowing Escape!

0:00 You're listening to Big the Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring you first hand encounters from people who say they've seen something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to quiet farms and crowded highways. The stories come from everywhere, and each one leaves us with more questions than answers. These are the voices of the people who've lived it. To settle in, because today you'll hear another account that just might change the way you see the woods forever. So stay with us, all right, Big the Society. I've got the privilege of talking to mister John Reiners today. John is the author of a newer book, Crouching Behemoth, Quadrupedal Sasquatch, which was a fascinating read, and we'll talk all about it. But welcome to the show. John. How are you doing today, sir, Well, I'm doing fine.

0:51 I'd challenge you to say the name of the book three times fast. I got it one. There's a reason I'll get into why I'm name just well. And I really appreciate Jeremiah the opportunity to come on here. I've enjoyed the show for a long time. Oh, thank you, and I've got my copyright here. Is very cool. Even even signed love that. But it's very cool, man, It is cool. Well, I'll talk about it for a few minutes. So I went into it, and it blew me away by the amount of witness accounts that you have in it that I had not heard. When I'm thinking of big foot books that have really good encounters in there that you've never heard, I would say it's up there top three, to be honest, And so I mean, hats off to you, dude. I only recognized probably one of them, and that was a net from Oregon, who have actually been able to speak with on the show.

1:52 But I was like, wow, these are these are incredible and I've never heard them in Your writing style is very cool. It's very like we're just talking back in and so so hats off to you. And you've got some great interviews in there with people that listeners would recognize, and we'll talk about that later at least one of them. But you know, John, I got to ask you, what was it that that led you to write this book and to gather all these encounters to begin with. Okay, well, I had an unusual encounter. I guess I should start. My encounter happened on November seventeenth, twenty twenty, and by trade, I'm an RN And you asked about the detailed, the detailed stuff in the book. I think that's where I get it because be prior to that, I was in the Coastguard. So between Coastguard training and being a nurse for so long, you get used to being detail oriented. So I had this encounter i'll get I'll touch on that in a minute. But the reason I did the book. I saw this thing and I was on my way to the cab and what had happened On that night? I worked the night shift at the hospital. At that point. You know, COVID was in full swing, so I was working on an immune compromise unit as well as on the COVID floor. So whenever I would leave the COVID floor that morning, I would get swabbed and then they would check it out to make sure I was safe to go back to the other unit where there's immune compromise on cancer patients and so forth. And that afternoon, it was like five PM.

3:21 I got up, was getting ready for work. My phone rings. I get a call from the hospital. They tell me, well, you're positive, you can't come in tonight. So I'm like, well, oh boy. And so at that time it was early on they told me that you have to quarantine for seven days. Well, at the time, my father in law was living with us. He was getting frail as pre nursing home. So we were going between my wife's sister, you know, sharing him for a month at a time to you know, kind of spread out the caregiver stress. And I felt like, oh boy, I don't know if I got it that day at work or before. So I was worried that he might have contacted it, which would have been a really deal. So at the time, they weren't home. So I called my wife and they were out shopping and I said, you guys better go get swabbed. I've got it quarantine. So we have a little cabin at rough River Lake, which I'm in Owensboro, Kentucky.

4:13 So Rough River is about fifty eight miles. So that was my plan. I said, well, you know what, I was working on a fishing book at that point, and I figured, well, I'll use the seven days. I'll go quarantine at work. On my fishing book more than just fishing, and so on. The way up here, it was by this time it was probably I left Owensboro about nine, So you're looking around nine point thirty. And if you get on Google, you'll be attle to see the site and you can find where I'm talking about. Fifty four east heads out of Owensboro and you're going towards rough River Lake. But when you get up to this town, you'll see a small bird called Fordesville. You get to Fordesville in Highway two sixty one runs north from there, So I turned there and go north. Well, stretch is about eleven mile stretch till you get t one O five.

5:03 That ten mile stretch, well maybe it's about eleven miles. I think I've metered it out. But ten miles of it tavy woods and then you get into one mile the last mile it breaks into farmland and then you get to one O five. I head south to the Rot Lake. It's about seven more miles till I get to the lake. So I was kind of daydreaming and just driving along. I get on two sixty one north and I go through all the wooded area. If you've got to be really vigil in that area. I almost hit a horse one time. A horse got out on the road. You never know what's going to get out on the road. Some of these farmers and the distance have animals livestalk I've seen on the road. So as I get close to the edge of the woods, when I get to that last mile I spoke about, there's a ravine of trees that follow along the left side of the road. There's a farmer's field that it stands beyond that that breaks in between two rows of trees.

5:56 You got the ravine on the left side of the road, and about thirty yards beyond that, you have a second ravine that goes maybe a hundred yards further. So that's on the left side of the road. On the right side, you have woods that come right up to the road for a little bit further and then it breaks off in a farmer's field on that So, as I'm coming down the road, I see the size shine on the right side of the road. He was white and made a tint and so anyway, so this big buck comes right up onto the road. And when I say a big buck this, I've seen smaller deer mounted on a wall. It had at least five times on each side. A really well antlered buck, pretty good size too. But he comes up on the road and just stops. But he's not staring at me. He's looking off to the left.

6:44 And so as I was going fifty five at the time, it's just a two lane real highway at this time of night, there's very little traffic. So as this buck comes up, it stops. I'm trying to figure out what's this buck doing, and I'm looking at him, and he's not really looking at me too much, but it appeared like he was panting kind of heavily. So as I'm approaching, I slow down, slow down, slow down. And as I'm slowing down, I mentioned that second row, second ravine that was extended one hundred yards beyond. Something catches my eye over there as I'm getting closer. You know how your headlights shine that goes off to the side, it starts illuminating as you're coming up. So what catches my eye is two gold eye shine. And when I say two gold eye shine, I'm talking about a predator, because you know how deer they'll have monocular vision where it's on.

7:39 This is a binocular vision head on when you see that, you you generally think predator right away. My first thought was mountain lion. But my god, these eyes are huge, and because I've seen mountain lions before. And the thing is, as I'm getting up to this deer now I'm almost stopped because he's not moving, and then I realize he's not watching me because he's looking over at what I'm looking at on the left. So as this thing it's facing me, it's coming towards me. But what was unreal about it? It was about three to four feet off the ground, and I saw a face, not a face like a wild animal, and it wasn't human, but it had gray skin, and it had the two gold eyes that were shimmering in or the shimmering in my in my headlight's the orange color. And then it looked like it had kind of a boxer's kind of a pug nose, and I could see lips. I didn't see teeth. I wasn't close enough to see that, but you could see like a mouth area, and the skin looked gray, and it had a receiving hairline kind of like I did, where the hair cane like just down maybe a couple of inches above the brow ridge and it wasn't really conical.

8:51 It was slightly conical, but the best I could describe the head shape. If anybody's ever seen brock Lesnar, the All Star wrestler, I wouldn't say this just face he'd kill but hopefully to god he's not listening to find them open. He's a thousand miles away. But his head with shape like that, and you couldn't really see anything else other than it looked I'll tell you why. I know they were arms, but at the time I didn't. I saw two limbs splay out and two other in the back, and it was moving like a spider, kind of like like this coming towards me slowly, and so I was like, by this time, I'm almost stopped. I'm just looking at this thing in amazing but trying to figure out what I see. So as I'm comprehending this, I looked back over at this buck because I start to see movement. Well, this buck, I would say the this creature was probably at my nine o'clock. Well, this buck takes off at about eleven o'clock in my position, and that's out into this open farmer's field, and I'm thinking what is this thing doing. And I didn't know.

10:00 He just didn't go back to the right. So this spider that's walking towards me sees the deer on the move, It turns and now it's running. It started as a gallop and it's at a full speed run. And I don't have any doubt that on all fours it was going to catch this deer. But what happened next was really amazing. As I could still see it. It went up smoothly as it's running on four, up on two. And I've heard of other people saying they've seen the opposite where they've gone on two and dropped to four. This was on four. He rises up to two, and I don't know why. At first, well, he was going to catch it on four, I wonder why. So after a while I contemplated what I believe was going on.

10:44 I think that this this sasquatch. What I knew after it stood up. I think that he was wary of the bucks horns, and I think that from what I've done from research, I find out a lot of times they'll wring their neck, and that their safety conscious and analytical enough. I think he went up so his head would be higher than the deer's head, so you wouldn't get times in the eyes, because on all four there was a possibility if you go tackle something, you're gonna get them horns right in your face. So that's what I think happened. So anyway, so at this point I'm stopped. I just said, I'm gonna roll my window down and see if I can hear anything this. I was just amazed. Well, I didn't didn't have it down very long. I hear a crash off to my right, so I didn't even think about that, And so what it was, I don't know if it was a branch coming through, a creature smashing through, or a tree being ripped down. It was a loud crash, so I thought there's another one in there.

11:40 So I was in the sixth cylinder Ford F one fifty at the time, so I couldn't really squeal too fast, but I got there out of there as quick as I could. Well later on what I figured happened this year. The reason he was panting when he got on the road. I think there was another one that had been stalking this buck for god knows how long, and I think the plan was for it to come right across the highway and wandering out for safety into that second rare, being a trees that was sticking out, and that's where the other one was on all fours, and I think he was on fours to be stealthy and not easily seen and be able to just tag that deer as soon as he got close without having to work too hard for it. I think they were hunting in Tanhem is what happened. I just came along at the bad time, and I think that the deer stopped because he saw an opportunity. I think he realized he was being stalked.

12:28 He must have, because he was panting like he'd been chased for a while. And I don't know if he wanted me to just hit him and end it, or if he figured maybe the creature would leave him alone after the car was there. But so after that, I got down another mile and when I got to one oh five south, right there there's this little intersection called Mcquitie. If anybody google's the Earth, they could see there's a little post office. There's a little bit bit more building there now at that intersection, but at this time there wasn't as many buildings, but there was a little post office trailer in there, and at this point I'm kind of scared, and I guess I had to do a welfare check on my breeches and make sure everything was cool, and my heart rate slowed down, and I was contemplating, this is what's stupid. I almost wiped out the gene pool of my family. I was dumb enough to think I'm going to drive back there with my hidings on and see, like go to an angle and see if anything's illuminated up in this field, and see if I could see these creatures eating this deer. Well before I did something stupid. All of a sudden, I hear Jake Brakes of this big semi coming down north on the highway and or I guess he'd be west and he was going to go right past the sighting. So at that point I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna get onto the cab and this isn't right. And then I figured later seven days later, when I came back through in the daylight, I would look out in that field and see it was private property, so I couldn't really go on the land. But I went over and pulled over and looked around with some binoculars to see if I could see the horns or a carcass out there.

13:59 I didn't see anything, so and it doesn't mean that it wasn't killed and eating right there. In Kentucky, a lot of times if somebody sees a dead buck, they'll pull over and grab the horns and cut them off so they can have the antlers for you know, hunting the rattle or whatnot, or regular friends and pretend like they killed a big buck, right, but don't. But anyway, so after that, I get to my cabin and I'm still kind of like not sure what to do. So I called my wife. She wanted me to call her make sure I got up here safe. Was I'm talking to her, she says, I can tell something's wrong. What's bothering you? And I said, well, I don't really want to tell you this, but because I kind of know my wife is. She's a pretty analytical person, but she doesn't usually believe in in like not things like bigfoot too much. So I tell her and she's quiet for a minute. She goes, are you sure you didn't see a mountain lion? I said, honey, I watched this thing.

14:53 I got a perfect look at it and it went up on two feet, and she's she's wanting to know how close I was. Well, actually, I was close enough that I could see when it stood up it was. It was lean, but it had muscles. It wasn't like some of me here, like these big weightlifter like Lessner's body kind of build. It was muscular, but it was lean, more like a fit swimmer. And I do remember when its arm went up. I remember the elbow looked like it was an unusual place. It looked higher up, and that may help explain how it was able to do that spider walk. I don't know, but I tell her that back in the back in the eighties, I was in the Coast Guard and I had an opportunity to go to Madison Square Garden and I remember seeing Patrick Ewing play for the Knicks. That was the tallest human being I'd ever seen, really in my life that I remember, and this big foot. I was probably closer to him than I was Patrick Ewing because at the time I was poor and I was way up in the nosebleed section of Madison Square Garden, so Patrick Ewing didn't look that big, but still you could tell he was big.

15:56 This thing was at least as tall as that Patrick Ewing, I think around seven foot. This thing was somewhere between seven and eight feet, but it was wider than like a human would be. I'd say maybe three feet wide at the shoulder, and you could see it tape down a little bit at the waist. But what I really remember seeing is in the scalpular area, there was some bear area that you could see some of that gray looking like what I saw on the face. So it made me realize that's hair, not for it kind of looks a lot more. Like hair, gotcha. So, and that would be around like the shoulder blade area. Correct, Okay, that scalpula right in the back.

16:37 My goodness. That How far apart were the eyes? Would you say? If I had to guess, It's hard to I talked to Charlie Raymond of the KBrO and he says it's very hard for people to estimate distances unless you're a golf For people that golf know three hundred yards, two hundred yards and inches and whatnot. But I would say they were probably six inches apart. They were further removed, and then maybe like a horse, I would say the eyes were hoorse size, maybe a tad bigger, but like I say, they were directly on and maybe a little bit further apart than a horse as it would be. So I'm gonna say like six inches or so.

17:20 Okay, So we talked about the shape of the head, but the size of it. If you were to look at the size of it in your mind, the size of the head and compare it to some kind of household object, what would it be compared to. I would say a basketball if I had to guess about the size of basketball. And what was weird is the head was enormous, but once it stood up, it didn't appear. Now it could have been leaning forward, I don't know that, but the head did not appear as proportionate to the body of sayers of what it seemed.

18:02 As big as the head was, it seemed a little tad bit small for the size of the shoulders I was looking at. And like I say, I believe they have necks. I think they just have traps that come up that hide the neck. Again, kind of like brock lessnar he's got. That's three times you're gonna beatle juice brock. Up. But but like if you look at him that that's kind of like from the back, that's kind of what I feel like, is why the head and it could have been leaning. We know, as you're running, this thing was smooth, but I don't know if he was hunched because it's hard to tell from the angle. Once he went up, I was just amazed looking at the back and whatnot. But I remember seeing the head didn't seem as big as what the body looked like, so it could have been because it was leaning forward. But to me when I initially saw it, it looked like about a basketball size, but it maybe a tad bigger, but on the body it looked a little bit smaller on the body like that.

19:00 For instance, how far away from Ohio County is this area. Oh ok Ohio count of So this was Breckenridge County, Ohio County, I would say a mile maybe two miles. Oh my goodness, okay, because I have gotten some wild stuff from Ohio County and that makes I mean, the whole area down there has to be wild. Well, I think what part of it is is. You know, after I've done research on this, I talked to a number of people, and we've got the Ohio River runs right on the edge. I'm like in Owensboro, runs right past Owensboro. But where I'm at the lake here, I'm probably like, I don't know, twelve to fourteen miles straight over to get to the river. So you got the Ohio River, and then the Ohio River. After Owensboro, you've got the Green River. Green you've heard of the Green River Monster. You see a lot of stuff over in Spotsville and things like that. But then you also have on the other side of where I'm out at the lake, Mammoth Cave is only like fifty miles away. Well, Mammoth Cave's got tributaries going all over the place. They're still never discovered the whole cave system. There's farmers around here that discover entrances that they didn't even know was on their own land for years. So who knows. Maybe these things move around in caves or the rivers. I don't think they're against jumping in a river at night and floating down to avoid a town like Owensboro, because on the other side of Owensboro they have a lot of Bigfoot sightings. And then on this side towards Rough River Lake, there's a lot over in Ohio County, so at some

20:33 point they have to traverse Owensboro, So I figure they probably do it either by walking the river bank where there's no houses because you're in floodplains so there's nothing flows by. It's a perfect place to move lots of game down there too, and or they could just get in the river and just float right on down the river. Wow. Just for listeners, is that one of those old school like bird clocks from the All nighteties? That's my alley. Yeah, I'm at my cabin so I have that that bird haw haw's different birds every every hour. Yeah, my grandfather used to have one of those. It's very cool. They're hard to find. Yes, I redid him. But have you ever talked to Don Neil from over there?

21:13 Yes? I have. Yeah, he's actually in the KBrO O. You've talked to him, and I've talked to Charlie Raymond who's the founder, and I actually interviewed him in the book as well. Don Neil told me, oh, that's how you need to talk to you. I wanted to interview don and he turned me on to Charlie. Yeah, it is a really good interview. So one of the interviews in this book is with Charlie Raymond, which is great also and don Neil I was able to interview him if I think it was a few months maybe half a year ago, also a really good interview from the same area. I would recommend people check that out. But so you have this really wild encounter sighting and then does it do you step back and you're like, man, I gotta figure this out or is it a thing where you just you jump into it and you're like, you know what, I'm going to go after this and even if it takes me out, I'm going to figure out what's going on here.

22:13 Okay. So when I told you, I came to the cabin the quarantine. So when I got here, it was like a day in and I had planned. My intention was to work on my other book and more than just fishing. I was getting close to finishing that book, and I figured how seven days might just push me over the top and get this puppy done. But what happened by day too, I was so disturbed. I hadn't got around to working on it because all I could think about was what I saw. And so then I got on my computer, I started researching and really all I could find, and it's still true to this day. I could find one or two drawings of a spider, and I could find a video on YouTube this lady named Melina Sidarova, I believe it's Malina or Marina Cidarova.

22:56 She's if you get on YouTube, you could find her if you look at her spyance. That's the closest thing I could find at the time. She moves around on all fours and it's really creepy, and I'm thinking, my god, if somebody can do it with human limbs. This of course, this bigfoot could probably have done what I thought it was doing. And she does a pretty good example. That's the closest thing I've seen on a video that imitates what I saw. That movement when she's moving around like a spider on all four that's a pretty good video to check out. But anyway, so what happened. I start research and researching, and I could find some sightings and so forth and whatnot. Then I realized that I wanted to I'm going to get a book on it and just order it and then I'll start working on my book. Well, I get on Amazon, I get on good Reads, other places.

23:42 I can't find a book on this. I'm like, my god, nobody's ever written about this there. You know, there may be a story or two written in other books. I could not ever find a whole work on this whole thing. And that's one of the reasons why it's my book end up four hundred and thirty nine pages. There's nothing ever been done as far as research just in the quadrupedal motion. And at first I had a hard time finding witnesses because sometimes people are reluctant to come forward with the big foot siding. But I find when they see something on four, they're even more reluctant because you're already going to get ridiculed by some but now you're saying on all four and now you're gonna get ridiculed by even some people who believe in Bigfoot or have seen them, because they didn't see it on four. So it took me a while to figure out how to get witnesses. And I'll tell you how I got my first witness This was I think it was I want to say twenty twenty two, right around there will every year there's at Indiana University, they have a collegiate bicycle race.

24:44 It's the biggest bicycle race in the country of college level and it's called the Little five hundred. There was a movie about it, I think back in the early eighties. There's a young Dennis Quaid that was in the movie. If you ever read Break of Them or watch the movie Breaking Away that have seen that movie, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. It's a huge race. You go there in the whole stadium was sold out, standing room only. So my nephew was enrolled at IU in business school. He was on the bicycle team called Novis, was their cycling team. Well, we were getting ready to go up there for the race. He calls me excitedly. He said, you're not going to believe it, Uncle John, You're not going to believe this. And his name's Tommy. So Tommy tells me we were sitting around our team one day after training, just sitting around having a cold drink, and somehow I ended up mentioning your bigfoot sighting and he says, my friend Kobe that's on the team. He stepped back and said, whoa, You're not going to believe this.

25:42 And so Kobe had told him, he said years earlier. I think it was in ninety six. His whole family, he's got a large family. I think at seven, they were at Lake Monroe, well, their farm. He grew up not far out of Bloomington. So they were on the way back to their farm from Lake Monroe and they got on this road called Scott's Road. Well, that whole area, if you look at it, there's several forests that back up there. One of them who's your National Forests, and then there's several state parks. That's all. Just if you get on Google Earth, you'll see it. Look at Scott's Road and you'll see beyond that all the forest. So they were a few miles on Scott's Road, just from their farm, and he said, they come up to this tea intersection and his dad stopped the car and said, oh my god. And there was this creature standing under this tree. It looked like he was picking something from the low branches of this tree and eating them. So the whole family thought. I talked to several family members of his family. They all said the same thing. And what happened after the thing became aware that they were just sitting there in their vehicle watch and get turned, it drops on all fourds and scoots right across the highway, right past the front of the vehicle. So the whole family got to look at it, and he said it was it was maybe seven feet, but he said it was very scrawny. It almost looked like it had names that the hair was kind of thin areas. But they got a really good look at it, and there's a really good description in the book of it. And so then I asked him, well, your farm's not that far away.

27:07 Have you guys ever had anything else on your farm? Well, he said, a year or two earlier, they were hiking and they heard something sounded like howler monkeys in the woods. If you ever google howler monkeys sounds, they're creepy. And he said it's scared the crap out of them. And he won't even go in their own woods on the back side of their farm because those woods end up going up to the National Forest and all that eventually, and he said, there's something back there. And I've been paced before, but I never see anything until the whole family saw at that time. So that's the first witness I found, and I thought, well, gosh, now I gotta do this book, because by then I'd had tons of information and about on all four and the types of joints and articulated joints, and I'll tell you about my theory on the joints here in a bit. But then I got my first live witness to talk to, and then it wasn't long after that he was able to tell me about somebody else that he had connected with, and now I got another witness, And then after that I found out I did a stupid thing. I went on my Facebook said anybody know anybody that's seen this? Well, they come out of the woodwork, and some of them I just couldn't like, man, come on. So I figured out that wasn't probably the best way to go about finding it. So a lot of times I just joined a lot of different groups, and I would listen to a lot of different podcasts, and when I saw one that would fit the mold, I would try to if they said on the podcast where they had, where they usually are, if they give their contact information. Most don't, so sometimes you can find them if you're on different

28:40 Bigfoot groups. Eventually you'll find posts where somebody says I saw this, and then I would instant message him and then usually we would talk on the phone and then set up an interview. Tom and I'd do a formal interview, and then I would type up what they told me now in the book is you know since you've read it, I take a lot of what their story. Sometimes I'll clean up the language some of them if I don't put the swear words or anything like that. But then I always research the area. I Google earth their area, Well, it's close enough, I've driven out to some of the sightings, and I also researched their area, and I like to put in the book maybe if it's close to a state or national forest, I give the acreage, the types of animals that are there, or something interesting about that area, maybe who's famous from that area. So I get a little bit in each chapter, a story besides the Bigfoot story that's of interest. And some of them, you know, you go off the deep end. One of them, I got into venus fly traps that grow in the area, and told how you know the story about venus fly traps.

29:42 So there's a lot of cool stuff in there that gave me liberty to when I'm there exploring that area to see what else is there. There's I mean, is really well done. And would you say there's probably about thirty, maybe around thirty accounts in there? What would you say? I think there's actually more because there's one chapter that has small accounts. I've just got some small shorter that wasn't really enough to do a whole chapter, so count I knows. I would say, maybe it's pushing like thirty eight somewhere around there. I'm counting them up, but you're right somewhere around thirty to thirty eight. Yeah, And some of them I couldn't use. I did some interviews and then I thanked him for their time, and it wasn't like I felt like, like it's hard to it's hard to say where you could get this skill, maybe from different jobs I've had, like a BS meter. So I felt like sometimes if I felt like the story didn't always line up, or too many contradictions, or maybe I'm not saying I don't believe in the WU, I don't know enough about WU. If it had too much flying saucers and stuff, I didn't include that. And the reason I didn't include that is after I talked to doctor Melder and he wanted to know what kind of book it was, and he goes, I'm not going in a book if you got all kinds of UFO abduction with sightings.

31:01 So I kept it clean on that and too because I wanted to get I had a promise from him to interview for the book, provided I met the criteria. Yeah, and that's really interesting because probably your book is one of the last times that he an interview with him was in a book before he unfortunately passed. I would cass, Yeah, what I did. Would I initially try to contact him. It's he's surprisingly accessible, or was surprisingly accessible compared to some people. But he's a busy guy. He told me. He goes John. I get thousands of emails every week. I try to weed through them, and it's so hard to answer everybody. But it had been a while, like I emailed them and then emailed again, and then I sent a letter follow up and I didn't hear anything. And then I emailed again one more time.

31:55 I said, I guess you're busy. Well, I hadn't heard at that time he had just had a stroke and he emailed me back. I don't know if he typed it or something. He goes, I apologize, I've had a stroke and I'm in rehab, I will I promise I'll contact you when I'm when I'm through rehab and back to work. So what I did at that point I knew man when he gets to work, he's going to have so much on his desk and so forth. So I thought, ah, what I'll do. I got a big envelope, multi colored, so I figured most of his mail he gets, we're going to be like the small letters. So I got a big envelope with all kinds of color around it, and I got the college address. I looked up in their directory at Idaho, and I looked up his office, and I sent a copy of my More Than Just Fishing book and with the cover letter, and I told him, I appreciate everything you've always done. I understand if you're too busy to give me the time, but maybe you have some downtime between rehab if you want something to joyable to read. Here's a book I wrote, And after you're done, I would really appreciate some consideration if I could interview you about a sighting I had and talk about the possibility of sequatch going on to all fours.

33:11 And so he ends up calling me one day, I'm driving down and my phone's ringing. I'm on the way up to the lake actually, and unknown numbers like I answer it, And I was thinking it's gonna be a telemarket or something. He goes, John, doctor Melderm. I'm like, well, helo, sir, just at the glue. He goes, well, you know how to get a guy's attention. I got this big envelope and he said, the first thing I looked at on my desk, I thought, hot darn I got so it works. And he liked the book, and so he said, I'll do the interview, but I have a kiacht. I don't sign on that these bigfoot go down and all four very often. And I said, doctor Melderm, that doesn't discourage me, because you just said they don't go down very often.

33:55 You didn't say you don't think they go down on all four. And that's my premise too. I don't think they're often on all four. But it's just like Starbucks. I might buy a coffee once a week. I don't do it very often, but I do do it. Maybe these bigfoot go on all four once on occasion when they're hunting or to hide. Maybe once a week. Or whatever. That's not very often. So he kind of laughed at that analogy. And I even told him that that movie Dumb and Dumber. I remember, I can't think Jim Carrey and Elizabeth Hurley. He asked her character for a date and she goes, no, I wouldn't go to you a date. He goes, what are the odds? And she goes a million to one. He goes, so I still got a chance. Yeah, So I told him I still got a chance, and Darna.

34:37 A couple of weeks later, we set up the interview and I sat here. He gave me about two hours of his time, and he went he unloaded on it and told me all kinds of stuff. Oh my goodness, that's really that's such an incredible opportunity you're able to have. And I'm guessing there's way more that was not put in the book. We got sidetracked and he goes, now, don't put this in there. We got almost talking like a couple of buddies. I found out he wasn't that much older than me, so we had quite a bit in common, and so we kind of talked about society and all he goes, now, this is not he would tell me off the record, and I was like, you, no problem, and everything I sent him. I told him I will send the chapters.

35:20 It ended up being two chapters because I couldn't he had too much to just go one chapter. So I sent him and when I got it back, I felt like a third grader that just got a paper, an incomplete paper. There was red marks all over it and uh, it's nothing. Oh crap. Well, some of it was just stuff he wanted strict and like to clean up the way he said it because I told him I was going to type it up just like our conversation. So some of it was run on sentences, and so he ended up correcting all the grammar and everything, and I thought, man, I hadn't nothing to the final ed and I put that on the cover letter. So I called him. I said, I'm sorry. I feel like I got an F on my paper. He goes, no, he said, you did better than a lot of my students. He goes, I'm used to mark and stuff, and you know, the proper thing needs to be like Heidelbergances has to be in parentheses.

36:09 I didn't have that, and he highlighted that with a marker. But I cleaned it out and sent him back and he put a plus solished. Yeah. Yeah, I think he told me it was the only time he'd ever been interviewed on a big Foot on All four and that was the whole Soul interview. So I was sad when he passed, but I was really fortunate to be able to talk to him. Yeah, it was a very very sad day when I when I heard that as well. Yeah, are there any you know, from that multiple hour discussion and then doing all that work to put it in your book? Were there any takeaways that really stick out that he had.

36:50 I'm sure he was just throwing out some incredible things about you know, talking about Bigfoot down on All four and how that might work or might not work with the way the things that we know about the anatomy of the creature. Yeah, he actually, as you know, he had probably one of the largest, if not the largest cast in footprint collections, so and he'd casted many of those on his own. He actually went on site a lot of times if the site of the prints were preserved, and made his own prints. So what he told me, he goes, with all the years I've collected prints, I've never found. He said, I only have a few handprints, and those are usually going up the hill. So he said, I do definitely believe they'll go to on all four going up an incline, you know, kind of like a four wheel drive truck to go up a incline. He says, I do believe that, and that's where I found handprints. He says, nobody really ever finds handprints with that shows they went on all fours with the footprints. But I told him, and we had a really good discussion on this, and he's appreciating my candor, and I said, well, let me ask you a question. I said, I'm just dumb enough to wonder why maybe there's a reason. I said, have you ever considered that the reason why nobody's found the foot prints is because when they go on all four they might not necessarily be on their feet, They might be on the balls. A lot of witnesses I talked to at this time, I told them tend to say the feet were splayed out at an odd angle and on the

38:22 balls of their feet. And I said a lot of them, some of them think they were on the fingers and some think on the knuckles. I said, those would not make handprints. And I said, a lot of times I think that people wouldn't even know what they're looking at. If they just saw the balls of feet handprints, it would look like two different animals come through there. You know, a lot of times people aren't going to pay attention to know. And the other thing I told them, I said, the other thing I think is he definitely didn't describe in the wu And I said, but do you think there's a more natural explanation for when people say they see a big foot disappeared and we discuss hair color, Maybe they can blend in. But I said, if you consider that, maybe they could drop down on all four.

39:02 Say there's some tall grass, somebody sees it, it drops down so fast in a blink of an eye, you think it disappeared. Maybe it really didn't. Maybe it dropped on all four. So that was a good discussion we had. And then he said he hadn't really considered that my footprint theory. And I said, maybe it would explain too, when somebody sees footprints disappeared like the print print print and all of a sudden nothing, maybe because it dropped all four all of a sudden. Now the weight it's distributed and you no longer have the eight hundred pounds or whatever being pressed down on two feet all of a sudden from the a lema standpoint, maybe it rained a little bit in the soft ground. It looks like there's footprint, footprint, footprint in the middle of the field, and the thing disappeared. Maybe he dropped all four and went away. Maybe he saw somebody at farm or in a field or whatever. It took off on all four.

39:48 Oh man, that is something to think about, isn't it. We might not be looking for the right thing for when it, I mean, goes into sports mode and then who knows how much quicker if it Maybe it can move quicker when it's down on all fours as opposed to just on two legs, and you know who knows. But yeah, you could go stealth. You can do it to hunt, to stalk, to hide, to blend in a lot of different reasons, just like you know, a human. It dawned on me one day I was in my garage and I dropped a whole bunch of screws. Well, I didn't stand up each time and pick up screws and pick them up. I got down on my hands and knees and walked around and got them all. So, if you think about a sasquatch and the various food needs they would have if they're rooting for roots or getting berries from a short tree, it doesn't seem very economical to stand up each time, pick the roots, stand up, eat it, go back down. Why not move around on all fours where you can pick the low berries, pick what's on the ground, and forge nuts that are falling down.

40:49 It would make more sense to move around on all four I think they're highly adaptable and they do what they need to survive. Absolutely. You had said that you have some interesting theories about tendons. Well, yeah, tendons and joints. So I had run this doctor Melvin too. I think that I have a strong background in orthopedics. I worked orthopedics for years. I work in mental health now, but the years I did orthopedics, I always know, like, so you say your arm, that's a Hens joint, and you're having your knee a Hen's joint. So when we think of a bigfoot at an odd angle, we're thinking in terms of human anatomy. Just because they have arms and legs like we do doesn't necessarily mean that their joints are made the same. So if you take a thumb and that's called a saddle joint in your thumb, and you know it's how I can move it around like that? Well, I ran it by doctor Meldam.

41:42 I said, what if you had a saddle joint or something closer to that up in an elbow and the elbows higher up where that thing can move in all different directions, but you feel like a stable A saddle joint can be stable. You're going like that and it's not given way, So why couldn't you have maybe more like a saddle joint. And when people say they see them even on two feet, moving like they're on an escalator, that could explain more with that saddle joint type of type of joint that makes them not bounce like we bounce. We've got hens joints and there's wear and tear. And I ran that by doctor Melderman. I also said, you know, compare like he did. Admit he said, Patty, he said the intermemberl intramemberl index on Patty was like a ninety, which means that if they take the ratio of the four limbs and the lower limbs, and he said like humans.

42:37 He talked about this family in Turkey. There's a family of four in Turkey that all walk on all four and he goes, if you watch them, and that's all they do, they only walk on all four. But he said, if you watch them, they look like a stink bug, their butts up in the air. And it's because of the limb difference. And he said chimps are the same way, their butts a little but not quite as bad as a human. And he said it makes them swagger a little bit when they're moving, which could explain some Piet spider movement. But then if you take even different he said, Patty, he goes, I'll can see this Patty's limbs. He believes the Patterson gimen the film to be the real deal. And he said, based on the index, he believes that the limbs were conducive to go down on all fours and make it a lot easier than it would be for human So he did conceive that as well. Wow, and so I think that their joints might be different is why they can do some of these things.

43:32 That's yeah, that's a really big deal. My goodness, do you have the account in your book that sticks out to you as maybe a favorite description of a bigfoot doing a spider crawl, or one that was maybe the best description that you've heard of. Well, there's actually quite a few good ones, but one that's coming to mind right now, and it'll lead in to another story I wanted to share with you. There was a family from Ohio. It was a family of four, and his name was Casey. The wife's name was Alice, and I talked to both of them. They had two kids named they was Addie and Declin. Anyway, what happened.

44:21 They were on Ohio and it was in twenty twenty two. They went on vacation to Louisiana. Well, they went to the Bogachita Reserve and they also went to the Pearl River basin and they So the story is longer than that. There kind of tells where they stayed and everything. But one of the days they were driving around the area just trying to you know, take it in and look at the swamp and whatnot. So they see this gravel road or this rural road they go down. Then they see a gravel road and they turn down that. Well it kind of dead ends like an the ATV trail. So at this point they decide, you know what, let's just go out into the woods and check this out. There was nobody around there in the trail was there, and the trail was conduced a part of their needs where they have their daughters paralyzed, so they had a special wheelchair that has a big knobby wheel with a chair on it. It's kind of like a chariot or a rickshaw. Maybe It's got a handle on each side, so one person can go from the front and the other person can push. So when they go through terrain, this wheels designed to be able to do that, so she could hike with them. So what they do as a family, They got mom and dad are pushing and the sons walking along beside. They're going down this trail.

45:29 They get back in their ways and all of a sudden they hear commotion on the right side a while bore comes crashing through there taking goes right across the path off to the left. Well, within a few seconds they see two legged about seven and a half foot tall creature with dark hair come across. Didn't even look at them, was going right after this bore. Well, wasn't long they hear this boar squeal, squeal squeal, like this depty squeal, and all of a sudden they hear a snap and the squeal stops. And the family at this point was just beside themselves, like what's going on? And so where Spider Caral comes in and the reason why they contacted me. His brother was the one that initially contacted me. Said if I can get my brother to talk about it, he might go in print with the story.

46:19 So anyway, so as they were discussing what they were going to do, they look forward and there stands a little creature on all fours that they said it was about fifty pounds and it looked sort of like a chimp, but they said it was on all fours, walking on fours and just staring at him, and they said it almost had a reverse mohawk. It was bald on the middle, but had kind of tufts of hair on the sides, kind of like it was young and it was like still filling in. But this thing, she said, had blue eyes, steely blue eyes. She said, we were close enough that this thing it stared at us like it was in awe and amazement of us, and we were staring back, So she said it was like the standoff, but she was able to give such a good description because they got to look at it fortrong and they were so scared. Well, then it wasn't long as they're just in the standoff.

47:10 They hear allowed whistle off to where they think the board was killed, and the thing, without a second thought, turned and took off. So now they're faced with them. We got to get back to the vehicle, and you can only go so fast pushing that wheelchair. So they were able to get back, and luckily they weren't paste out or nothing chased them. So anyway, so what happened the rest of vacation was kind of disturbing for him, and it kind of ruined their vacation because they couldn't sleep, and they go back to Ohio and he went back to work and the kids back at school, and they were disturbed. They couldn't sleep at night. They were showing classic classic signs of PTSD post traumatic stress disorder. It's an anxiety in order, and it's unlike other anxiety disorders.

47:52 It can have external causes and the thing is whenever and now they get close to woods and smell woods makes them go into effects. So the family, the dad mom decided as a family, they need to go into therapy. So they went to a therapist, and so the therapist didn't exactly know. They said they had a horrifying experience, is how they booked it. They didn't want to tell them why until they got into therapy. They get into therapy and they're telling them a therapist and the therapist starts laughing, like you got to be kidding me. A bigfoot ran out in the trail, then a little one come out and she was laughing and just kind of making light of them. Well, he said it actually made him worse, Like his daughter started tearing up, said let's go.

48:36 I want to go now. She doesn't want to talk about it. Nobody wants to talk about it. So with that, I called them back and said, in your honor, I got a hold of doctor David Harmon. Doctor David Harmon is my region. I'm in Kentucky, but in this whole region, he's the most well known doctor who treats post traumatic stress disorder. So I was able to get a contact through him. Through working in healthcare, another doctor I know was able to call him and say, could this guy come and talk to you. And he want to know what about And he said a big Foot book. And he goes, oh, well, this will be interesting. I don't know what I could add. So then he was intrigued, so he took the appointment. I met with him and he goes, why do you want to meet with me about bigfoot book? And I said, first of all, I'm not asking you to subscribe to whether you believe in Bigfoot or not, it's not the reason I'm here. So I just told him the story that I just told you about this family and what they saw and how disturbing it was to him, and that it kind of was upsetting the family and tearing up their peace. And so I told them about the therapist laughing. So I thought, I want to do a chapter I've never seen in a big Foot book, a chapter about post traumatic stress.

49:47 This story it gets overlooked. Sometimes people have sightings where they're far enough away and it was maybe a little disturbing, but not enough to emotionally wreck them. These people were on foot and could have died, and they felt the presence of it, and they were so traumatized that it was ruining their family dynamics. The kids quit hanging out with their other friends. The friends laughed at and want them try to tell their friends at school what happened. They got ridiculed. That made it worse than they go to the therapist. So doctor David Harmon in the chapter I asked him a lot of different questions about how he would treat somebody like this and what post traumatic stress disorder is. But basically, in somemation, what I really took away from it, he said, a good therapist does not have to believe the person when they came in.

50:32 They don't have to believe that they had an accounter that they believed they had and saw something. He said, you're supposed to treat the trauma, not judge them one way or another. And I thought, you know what, that's pretty much like I do in mental health. You're not supposed to judge them. You're supposed to treat what is. And he said that's where he goes. That's a therapist that shouldn't even have a license, should be fired immediately. But so I thought, well, good for that, and so that family really appreciated that in there too. It gave him some insight how another therapist would feel. But since then they found some other help. I think they end up going through a chaplain that wasn't kind of like a don Neil kind of guy. But but yeah, that's why I did the chapter on PTSD because I thought, you know, that gets overlooked a lot of people don't understand the pure trauma that some witnesses really go through.

51:22 One hundred percent. And I remember when I was reading the book, I was I was like, Wow, this is actually really cool that that this is in here and more people. I hope a lot of people are able to read the book, and especially that chapter I think is very very good help a lot of people. Do you have any let's see, do you have any plans to write maybe another book about big felt or is this just like a one off type deal. Well, actually, do you know Jason Canzie? Yeah, yeah, I've spent Jason out in the producing. I've interviewed him already. The book I'm working on, I thought another book. There's books that have touched on it, but so I'm working on a book. It'll be called Aquatic Behemoth Sasquatch Swims, and it's strictly to do with bigfoot sightings in the water. Involving water sightings, and I've contacted Thomas Sue and he's going to take part. Let me interview him for that book, and I've already got quite a few witnesses in there. My goal is next year I'm going to be at the Blue Bridge Bigfoot Festival first Annuel in Owensboro. There's a man going to kick that off and he owns a place called Squatch here in town, and so he's the one sponsor and it's going to be after talking to him, the guy knows what he's doing. There's going to be a lot of people there in the year after. We plan on having it a multi day festival with shoves going back and forth to the riverfront hotels to the center where

52:55 it's going to be at. But my plan is to have that book done by the time that festival because I'm going to be a speaker there and I want to be able to talk about that book as well. But yes, that should be published in Hope with June June July next year. It'll be another lengthy one. I'm opening the spicott on that one. Too, absolutely, And I would imagine because I've seen your you've been on a few other shows as well, and I'm imagining you're proudly continuing to get stories about spider crawling sasquatch. Is that happening for you? Yeah, I haven't. I haven't been like doing tons. I don't want to oversaturate. I think this is the fourth one I've been on since March, so it's been like three or four months since I've been on one. I try not to do too many. I've tried to do ones of people that I listen to their show and I kind of know what they're about and so forth.

53:51 But anyway, the yes, I do you like taking part? I was really glad to come on your show. But yeah, I haven't done too many. I've done a few, but not not a whole lot. So do you think there could be a part two to this book one day? Or you're just kind of maybe filing? Well, what's funny about it is, after I came out with the book, I've had several other people right to me and say, oh, man, I wish I knew that you were looking for it, and they give me their story, like that's a really good one. So I asked them, I said, I don't have plans on that right now, but can I keep it and file in case I do a part two, I may go back to that after the swimming one. I'm pretty head and head over heels on this swimming one and really deep into it.

54:39 And you know, still work, and I still work full time at the hospital, and I fish. I'm a fishing attic, so I try to find the time. I use a lot of time in the winter, especially when the fish is no good through the whole winter. I'll grind on the on the Big Foot book. So hopefully i'll have a good by the by next year June or July, I'll have this other done, and then I may jump into a part two on them, because I'm getting like I say, I've had I think at least six or seven good ones of people that say, if you do another one, I'd be happy to take barrow on there. So oh my goodness, Yeah, you're already. You already have a good head start on that for sure. Is it a thing where you have you also ever gone out and tried to look in certain areas yourself or you just sticking to interviewing people and putting them together in a book.

55:33 Yes, I have gone out and I've actually got there's a guy in almost Burrow. I actually had breakfast with him. I don't know, maybe a month and a half. Uh oh, we'll give him a minute. Hey, John, Hey Jeremiah. I don't know what happened there. Hey, that's all right. Weird stuff happens on the show. No problem. So you were talking to a guy in Owensboro, Yes. And he had heard me on another podcast back in April, and he didn't know my name. Well. Then later on this lady at our local newspaper got on somehow she got to copy my book and she called me up and said, do you want to do an interview in the newspaper. I said sure. Well, then this guy he had saw me in there and got my last name and everything in contacted me. So we went and had breakfast.

56:34 I don't know, about a month and a half ago, and I had a huddle house and had a breakfast, and he told me he said he grew up on his uncle's farm, and his family's house was just right next to his uncle's and he had a sighting there and he said they had this big foot standing up in the middle of this tobacco barn when they were down on the field, and then he had had some other sightings and whatnot, and then they had one where he and a buddy of his was up at of the ponds at an old stripper pit on the land, and when he got up there, there was a big foot in the water and it saw him and turn and took two steps out of the water and took off. So I talked to him about it, and I actually have a time set up now that it's getting into the winter, we're gonna go exploring and we'd probably spend the night out there and just see what's up. He's pretty confident that we'll hear something or see something. He said, almost every time he's gone out there, there's either seas sign of activity or odd tree formations, or hears something or sees movement or see something. So we're gonna go check it out. So I'm looking forward to that. I hunted for years. I'm not like a field squatcher, but I have gone out in the field numerous times. We've got forty acres over in Indiana. I walked through all that too, and there's an area there by Pigeon Creek that I walked through and been out there shining around I've never seen anything, but yeah, I'm getting more into that.

57:58 That's awesome. On this has been such a great conversation. Again, thank you so much for sending me a copy of the book so I could check it out. And sure, I'm glad to have you on and hear things personally from you. And do you mind spending a few minutes talking to people about how they can pick up a copy of the book, how they can contact you directly with any stories or questions they might have for you. First of all, I want to appreciate you taking the time when I first to talk to you, I wanted to send you the book so I feel like you do such a thorough job. And I wanted you to have a copy in your hands so you could read it and see what I'm all about and so forth, and you ask great questions. I appreciate it. And to contact me. I'm on Facebook. I've got John Reiners and John Reiners author, but you're going to get in contact with me quicker under John Reiners. I post most of my stuff on my regular Facebook. I've got a lot of people on there. But if they just use instant messengers, the way that they can get a hold of me pretty quickly and if they can interact on anything I put on Facebook. Everything I put on Facebook is either bigfoot related or fishing related, mostly about ninety five percent of it. But yeah, through theres where I've made a lot of contacts. If anybody has a sighting, a water sighting, anything like that, contact me. I'd love to talk to you.

59:19 There's one person that was on your show recently that the James from UH he had a sighting in Missouri. I've talked to him, Okay, yeah, yeah, totally. He's an awesome guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool, good stuff, good stuff, Well man, John, what a fun chat. Definitely keeping in keeping touch please, I know you're going to be getting into some more cool stuff. And yeah, I'll be keeping an eye out for when the second book comes out. But thanks so much for being on the show. Sure, jarem I. I really appreciate it, and I appreciate the platform you give everybody, and your show is awesome. I love listen to I listened to it a lot going back and forth. Like I said, I got a fifty eight mile drive. I go every week, so perfect. I get two hours or an hour there, an hour back and you know, unless I'm not speed. If I'm not speeding it, I got about a show and a half's worth.

1:00:11 That's awesome. Well, thank you. I appreciate that, John, and and we'll definitely keep in touch. Thank you, sir. Hey, it's me again. While I'm editing the show, make sure you check this out. Here's how you can get it, because it wasn't said in the episode. You can go to Amazon dot com search for Crouching Behemoth Quadrupedal Sasquatch by John Reiners and I'm going to have the link down the show notes. Thanks guys. Before we wrap this episode, I want to say something directly to a very specific group of listeners. If you're in the military, any branch or forces, and if you've seen something that no one can explain, or if you're a National park ranger or forestry worker who's been told to stay quiet, if you're a pilot who's seen something strange down on the ground, or if you're with the FBI a federal agency, or working intelligence and you stumbled upon something you're not allowed to talk about. And if you're a firefighter, paramedic, or search and rescue responder who's heard screams or found tracks that didn't make sense. If you're in the logging industry on a remote oil field, or a trucker with government contracts and you've had something happen that you've never told a soul. And if you're a biologist, a wildlife specialist, or a field researcher under contract who has found evidence you're not allowed to report. If you're a pastor, a missionary, or someone on a spiritual retreat and you saw something that shook your faith, or if you work in the

1:01:43 shadows CIA, NSA or anything with clearance and you've seen what the public hasn't, then I want to talk to you, even if it's anonymous. You can reach me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. The world needs to hear what you've been forced to carry alone. And you're not alone. You've got the story, We've got the mic. See you in the woods. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast. Every encounter we share reminds us that the world is bigger and stranger than we think, and that the truth is often hiding just beyond the tree line. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the channel on YouTube, hit the bell so you don't miss the next episode, and share this with a friend who's into mysteries, monsters, or the unexplained.

1:02:34 And if you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple Podcast, please follow the show there and leave us a five star positive review because all that helps more people discover the show. And remember, if you or someone you know has had a Bigfoot sighting, please I'd love to hear from you, so email me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com and let's start the conversation. If you haven't gotten a chance yet, check out our membership community over at www dot Bigfoot podcast dot com and that's where you can hear tomorrow's episode today early in ad free and members only episodes every week. Also, it's a place to connect with other people that are into the Bigfoot subject as much as you are. Thanks again for following along with the Bigfoot Society until next time, keep your eyes open, trust your gut, and never stop asking what else might be out there? And see you in the woods.