The Untold Story of Rory Zoerb, 1990s Bigfoot Adventurer!

0:00 Welcome to Big for Society. If you have Bigfoot activity to report from the same areas discussed in this episode, please reach out to me directly after this episode. And if you'd like to be on the podcast to discuss a personal Bigfoot encounter, please reach out to me directly at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. Do you wish there was more Big for Society to listen to you every week? Well there is now. If you become a supporting member over at Patreon, you get a special members only episode every single week on Wednesdays, and sometimes even more episodes. Head on over to patreon dot com. Forward slash the Big for Society and now let's get on with the show bigfot Society. I've got the privilege of talking to mister Rory Zorb today. Rory's an individual that reached out to me that has quite an interesting background and Rory, welcome to the show. How's it going?

1:00 Hey good, Thanks Ceremiah, thanks. For having me so you you provided me with Rory. You've been you've been in this for a long time. You've you've got stuff on on your list that is some really intense stuff. And uh, take us take us back to the to the beginning rory when you first started getting it involved. Okay, yeah, it's a fascinating subject and it's been a journey. It started in about ninety two when I started thinking about it seriously. I heard about it, you know, like everybody else, pretty much throughout my life, and in ninety two I dove into I think about five books and I can't remember the names of them, but I'm surest most people have read them, and all about Bigfoot. And after reading the five books, I was convinced that these beings exist and in fairly large numbers. So I had an opportunity. I had the time to put together an adventure.

2:29 And you know, I was prior military, so putting on a backpack and hiking for long distances was pretty fairly normal to me. So so I put together a backpack. It ended up being about one hundred pounds. It was a military large alice pack, and you know, I had one hundred feet of military repelling rope on it, tent bedroll, forty day food supply which was about thirty pounds, So it was about one pound of food per day, including you know energy bar, protein bar, and oatmeal and you know quick dinners. I could just boil up that kind of stuff, but it was it was a pretty heavy pack, and I didn't want to drive. I wanted to go into this expedition quietly and just walked through the woods in the area that I thought that the Sasquatches would likely be. And I actually originally planned on a ninety mile route, which you know, over thirty days, it's not it's not bad at all. It's a stroll, so it's

4:00 we had taken a car. I took the Amtrak up the coast and then into Redding, and it was interesting when I got on the Amtrak. They had stewardesses back then, this is in ninety three, and my backpack got a lot of interest, a lot of interest from the stewardess. Stewardess says, and they asked me what I was doing, and I don't know, I'm going to look for Bigfoot. And they all thought that was quite funny. So anyway, I took the Amtrak up to Redding and then I caught a bus. It doesn't it doesn't run anymore, but it was kind of a famous little bus line that went from Reading over to Eureka. I think it was or oh, somewhere over on the coast, but anyway, it went through Lillo Creek. So I took that, got off at Willow Creek, stayed at the Bigfoot Motel for one night, and you know, checked out the Bigfoot cage in the back and all that. And I didn't really talk to many people in town at that point, not that I can remember. Was this is like, you know, thirty some years ago now. But so the next morning, after staying at the Bigfoot Motel, I just had it out with

5:34 my backpack, and I'm pretty sure I went northeast out of town. I don't remember exactly. All I do remember is the first part of the journey was steady uphill for quite quite a while, and so around dusk, I was pretty small from carrying that pack uphill all day, and there was like a pull out area on the side of the road, and so I dropped my backpack, pulled out the thirty pound bag of food, and I remember I had some fruit, some dried fruit stuff. I was really looking forward to that. So I pulled out a few things I was going to eat, and I hear this sound coming through the trees, and it's starting to get a little dusk, and I'm kind of straining to see across the road on the uphill side, and I'm straining to see what is making this noise, and it's getting closer and it's big. And then a bear comes out of the edge of the woods and it's standing on the other side of the road and I got my food is like strewn out of my feet,

7:06 and I like looked down the right, looked up to the left, turned around behind me. There's like nowhere I'm going to go, And besides, I don't want to let him have my food. So I started talking in about five different voices, high, low, deep, whatever, yell and just get the bear to go away. And I remember him cocking his head kind of like a dog does, and he just kind of casually turned and walked away. So I was like, wow, this is going to be an interesting hike. So I got something to eat and repack everything and can kicked up until it was dark and I found a place to set up my tent. And I was really smoked by this point, I mean carrying that it was all uphill, and so I set up my tent and I thought, well, you know, I should hang my food, but I was too tired, it was too dark, so I dragged my backpack about thirty five forty feet from my tent and just let it left

8:40 it sitting on the ground. So I go back to my tent, and you know, I just found this really interesting. Hopefully your listeners will find this interesting too, if you want to go backpacking in the wilderness, especially up in the Six Rivers National Forest. It's full of bear and mountain lion. So anyway, I set my backpack down and I'm in my tent. I'm getting ready to crash out, and I'm actually horizontal at this point, and then i hear my backpack being drug and I'm like, oh no, I mean, I can't lose my food on the first day into this journey. So my defense, I didn't bring any firearm. I brought a hammock that I cut the ends off so I could use it like a thrownet, and a ca bar a knife, and a little thing of pepper spray I wore on my forearm. So with those three things, I was pretty confident I could deal with anything that you know, came at me or whatever.

9:59 So I go out to get my backpack and I just yelled, hey, as my backpack is being drug into the bushes and I couldn't see what was dragging it. It was it was really dark, and and as soon as I yelled, I hear this. So it was a mountain lion dragging my backpack off. And so I continued over to my backpack. I could hear that from where he scowled at me. He was away from my backpack. He retreated into the into the bushes and trees, and so I don't remember what I did with my backpack after that, but that was that was it for the night.

10:50 But that that was pretty much enough for one day. So anyway, I continued on in the journey. And you know, while I'm talking about bear, I had over one hundred bear sightings and encounters, some of them very close. There's so many bear up there. I saw seven bear in one hour at one point, and I had a total of five mountain lion encounters, a couple of them really close. So anyway, I continued on my journey and I meet this guy that lived in the He was like off grid.

11:41 I didn't see his cabin. I think he was in his pickup, and he stopped when he saw me hiking on the road and we had a conversation and you know, I'm told him, I'm looking for At this point, I'm just talking to everybody about bigfoot. I mean, I'm talking to the locals. And I said, you know, you ever hear anything, see anything? He said, yeah, he said, I used to have one that came through my property about the same time every year for a few years. And you know, I'm like, whoa. And so he starts telling me about at one point, you know, they would they kind of had a bond that started to grow. And he said at one point, he said, he tossed a ball that he had in his yard to it, and it tossed it back. And this guy just sounded, you know, as matter of fact, like he just absolutely telling me the truth what happened. But I thought that was pretty astonishing, and I and talking to him further. He said, you know, I'm in that kind of the right general area, but the area I really wanted to go to was west of where I am, you know right now, And he described the location and what he was talking about was

13:13 Bluff Creek. So I changed plans. I was like, wow, you know, I hadn't planning on going ninety miles into an area that you know may or may not, but Bluff Creek sounds like it has a lot better chance. So and at some point, I don't remember when it was, I probably did a total of five six expeditions up into this area of northern California. And it was either on this one or another one, I don't remember, but somebody had told me to check out the fish hatchery.

13:57 There's been sightings around the fish hatch for years, and so I think it was on my route and then it was hiking. So I spent some time looking around the fish archery for any sign, and I did find a barefoot human barefoot, but it was extraordinarily wide, and it was only it was short. It was definitely a juvenile, but it was it was weirdly wide, and I measured the width of it with the handle of my k bar and it was the width of my K bar handle.

14:46 And I don't remember how long the track was. I think it was eight nine ten inches or something like that. It just wasn't big, but it was just wide, so who knows, I don't know. So I made my way over to Bluff Creek. I went back into town and then headed up to Bluff Creek, and I got to Bluff Creek Campground. When you know, after exploring the map, that looked like my best entrance. I used to have those roads memorized. I think it was thirteen n or something that and now they call it the Bluff Creek Trail.

15:30 Big so a society will be right back after these messages. But it was right kind of across from the Bluff Creek Campground. And so I got to the Bluff Creek Campground and by the time I got there, I figured I'm just going to spend the night there and camp out, and and I spoke with the owner when I checked in, and he came out. He's real friendly, talkative. And I sent you a picture of the Bluff Creek Company as I remember it back then. I think I just googled and found that old picture of it. But in the picture you see the porch on the Bluff Creek Company building, and that porch is where he and I stood and talked, leaning over the railing. And so, you know, I asked him, I said, so you're you're here, you know, what do you hear about Bigfoot? He said, Oh, my gosh, he said it was crazy back in the day, and he

17:02 started telling me about how the media, you know, flocked in there at some point, you know, I don't remember. I think the attraction was there was a woman who claimed that she had been abducted and she came out of the woods and she was all scratched up, and the National Inquirer was there. He said it was a circus and it unfolded pretty much right in front of his business there, the Bluff Creek Campground, and that was very interesting. And I said, what about you ever see or hear anything? He said, well, you know, they used to come through the mountains behind me here every year about the same time, and I think he said February, and he'd hear him for about two weeks, screaming back and forth to each other as they migrated through the mountains, and then they would just disappear and he wouldn't hear him anymore. And I was like wow, I said, can you describe, you know, what the screen sounded like, And without even missing a beat, he let out his rendition of a bigfoot screen and I'm sure my jaw fell open,

18:33 but I was like wow. And he said, but you know, they stopped about ten years back he said he hadn't heard him in the last ten years or so, but he said, you know, you come to the right place, he said, this Bluff Creek area. There's been sightings, you know, going back a long time. So oh, and he had his his general store then, and I asked him about it. He said, you know, I asked him, could you, you know, show me the inside, and he said sure, And we went over and he opened unlocked the door, and when I walked in, it was like he had just locked the door one day and never opened it again. It was fully stopped with so much memorabilia, mubs, shot glasses, just everything, the whole thing. But it was all covered in dust and cobwebs. It looked like been sitting a long time. And he was he was pretty unhappy, you know, when I talked about him with what had happened. He had a couple of gas pumps out in front of that Bluff Creek Company store, and the regulators came in

20:04 and imposed some regulations on his gas pumps, which meant he would have to spend thousands of dollars to re line the tanks and all that stuff, and he just he couldn't do it, and he was really upset about it. He had to shut it down. And I've kind of wondered, you know, over the years if they didn't do that on purpose to make him less of an attraction for you know, because they really don't want people going in there. I don't believe and exploring the whole Bigfoot thing. And I'll go into that a little bit more down the road.

20:47 But anyway, he was pretty discernled about that. But anyway, so it was great talking to him. Nice guy, and I think he had a brother then too. I'm pretty sure he's since passed away. But anyway, the next morning, I headed up what they now call the Bluff Creek Trail and it went west and followed basically along the left side of Bluff Creek up higher. And so I'm hiking up and I have an idea of where I want to go, and this is one of the interesting mountain lion encounters. Another this is all uphill for quite a way, as anybody who's taken that Bluff Creek trail nose, there's a lot of uphill in the beginning. But there was a big tree on the right hand side of the of the road and had a couple of branches still growing. I was all debarked and old that it had like a perfect notch to set my backpack down and for me to sit down in and relax, you know, for a minute. So I'm sitting there, and I wore and I had my thirty five millimeter camera on the

22:20 outside of my backpack and a big case, protective case and in case I needed to get to it quick. So I set my backpack down and I'm sitting there relaxing, and it's just a quiet and beautiful day. And I hear this something coming through the brush on the other side of the logging road, and it's coming towards me, and so I stand up. I'm getting ready. I did carry a steel bar, and later it's too heavy. I later exchanged it for a walking stick, a sharpened walking stick.

23:08 But anyway, I stood there ready for whatever was coming through the trees, because it was like it was making a beeline right towards me. And I see this buck pop out of the woods on the high side of the road on the left side, big beautiful racked buck, and it looks down at me. It's like, you know, almost standing above me, and it kind of made a snort and then bolted to the right down the road to my left. And so I said, oh, okay, well that's what was making the noise. No big deal. And so I sit back down. And then I hear noise from the same area again, and so I stand back up, and out pops a mountain lion. The buck was running from a mountain lion. So the mountain lion jumps down the bank. It now has me in its sights, and it comes down the bank and it gets to the middle of the logging road. And I think he was probably about forty feet away, and we're just facing each other, and he wasn't moving. He didn't know what he was going to do. I didn't know what he was going to do. But anyway, I thought, well I've got a little time. I reached back without turning away from him.

24:38 I reached back and grabbed my camera out of its case, and I pulled it up and snapped a picture of him standing there, you know, looking at me. And I had no idea where that picture went, you know, thirty five millimeters in a shoe box somewhere. But anyway, he after a couple of minutes of just looking at each other, neither of us was gonna, you know, make any move towards each other or back away, until he finally decided to go stage left and he just walked off the road and down into the woods. But I just thought that was an interesting encounter. But the next one that's you know, happened later, is more interesting. But anyway, so I'll keep going. I kept hiking up Bluff Creek Trail and there's a there was a fork in the road, and I thought, well, I'm gonna take this down. This looks like a great area to go down to Bluff Creek, and there's an open area at the bottom of this switchback.

25:53 I forget it was about half a mile maybe maybe a mile with all the switchbacks down to Bluff Creek, and so I take that down and I think I set up camp on the way down because it was a really big open area. And it's in one of the pictures that I sent you. It looked like it was an old logging camp that they had cleared out, and it was a really good place to set up a camp, good place for a campfire. Trees were like you know, nowhere around. It was a big open area, and so I I'm pretty sure. I set up my tent and just got ready. That was where I was going to camp for the night. But then I headed down, or I went down the next morning. I think I went down that afternoon. But anyway, i go down to Bluff Creek and I'm looking around and just looking for any kind of sign tracks, you know, always looking for tracks, And at this point I had seen tracks that were very interesting. One of them looked like it was in around a bowl. But you know, in the forest floor,

27:27 you know, you rarely get a place that will hold a good track. It's the you know, the all the junk that falls on the forest floor, but you can't see some big impressions, especially in moss. Moss can hold a really good, nice outlined track. So anyway, I'm looking around Bluff Creek and I start seeing these trees, these spruce and I think there were spruce, maybe some pines, but the tops were broken off and the top was lying down next to the tree. I mean, like I saw like three or four in a row, and I'm like that is so strange. So and the tops of the trees were still green. They had not been off of that tree for very long. They hadn't had a chance to dry out. And so I examined the trees and I looked for it was, you know, a bear maybe chewing the tops of the trees off, but there were no teeth marks, and there were twists. These things were twisted, and it's like, now that's a hand that did that. And I was like, you know, I don't think people are doing this, but it definitely looks like

28:58 a hand with the strong grips, especially a tree that's you know, one inch in diameter at the top. You know, you try and grab a one inch diameter tree and twist it and break it off and drop it down next to the tree, you gotta have some pretty powerful hands. And some were thicker than that. And I sent you a picture of one tree break that was about two inches in diameter. Absolutely, I cannot figure out how anything other than an extremely large, powerful hand could bend it and break it. And when I when I got this sample break, it was a green, healthy tree. The power it took to do that was it's astonishing. But anyway, so I'm finding these breaks and then I did find impression large impressions. Now you know bear and squatches, you know, they occupy the same territory. So you know, I'm sure there's times where you can look at and go that could be a.

30:15 Squatch big for society will be right back after these messages, or it could. Be a bear. But you know, on a side note, any of the time that I spent down in this area of Bluff Creek, I never saw a bear. And I had seen like I said, I stopped counting bear at a hundred. Literally, I was seeing so many bear I saw him all over the place, but I never saw any in this area of Bluff Creek, which I didn't think about too much of the time, but later thought it was kind of odd. So I'm finding the impression and these twisted trees, and some of them were bigger twists, and you know, higher off the ground, and I would look on the tree to see did something climb up this tree to get to the top, because a bear can't reach that high with his mouth. And there was no damage to the limbs going up the tree, absolutely completely pristine, as though something reached the cross and

31:46 grabbed the top, twisted it, broke it off and dropped it right next to the tree. That's the signature break that I was finding. So I'm like, wow, this is really interesting. And so anyway, I head back to my camp, back up the switch back, and I get to my camp and I think I made dinner, and then I started exploring around my camp and there was a trail that went north out of my camp, and I walked down that trail and I found two more trees right next to each other with the same signature twist off, with the tops lying right next to them, and I and I examined these closely, and there was there was sap in one of them, and the sap had trapped hair.

32:52 So I cut this section of the twist off and put it in a baggie with the sap, a little piece of the tree and the hair, and so the fast forward. You know. When I got back, you know, I told my my father about my little adventure and he's you know, he's like, oh, come on, Rory, bigfoot hunting. Are you serious? And I said, Dad, I got hair samples. I think there's I like to have him check out. And he said, well, you know what he said, My dad was a sheriff at the time. He said, you know, I got a buddy who's a retired FBI forensic hair specialist.

33:41 He said, why don't you send me the samples and I'll have him check them out. And I'm sure he wanted to come back and tell me, you know, Rory, you're wasting your time. Those were whatever, And like three weeks later he called me out with a really surprised tone in his voice. He said, he doesn't know what they are. He said, he doesn't have a match in any of the hair samples he's collected over his entire career. And he asked where I got them. So he was interested in where I got the hair samples. So my dad was like, now he had an interest in what I was doing. So anyway, so I camped out that night and finding the twist Offs in close proximity to where my camp was. This is what I thought to myself.

34:42 I think I'm writing Bigfoot's backyard, and that was my goal, was to put myself in Bigfoot's backyard. And from what I had read in the books, they're very curious about campfires. I'm sure for a couple of reasons. You know, any animal sees a fire in the woods, they need to know whether they need to leave or if it's not a big deal. So my plan was was to set up a big campfire and attract you know, Saskuatch to me. And because there's no way I'm going to chase one down or track one or follow one or any of that kind of nonsense. So and like I said, this was an old logging camp and there was cut off stumps and stuff all over the place. It was like left and it'd been sitting there for many years. I mean, you picked up a log, it felt like a giant roll of paper. And you know the story that I wrote.

35:52 I said, I collected about two cords of wood. Well, now I live in Colorado and I know what two cords of wood is now, But back then it wasn't two quarts of wood, but it was a lot of wood because it was laying all over the place. So I spent the evening collecting this huge pile of wood and set it lengthwise along the side of my campfire. So my plan was, and like I said, I'm in a big open area, so I felt, you know, comfortable in making a large fire, and I did it. I got that thing, you know, going pretty good and to the point where it would illuminate, you know, high up on the trees that were around this this open area, and so I'm keeping the fire going and and you know, like I said in my story that I wrote, and it was on Matt Moneymaker's BF website when he when he launched that back in nineteen ninety five, I think he called it a Mission to Bluff Creek, and that story on the homepage of his website, I think got an awful lot of attention and word spread because I got some phone calls and things about it. But anyway,

37:26 so in that story I put you know, I was sharpening my walking stick, which I noticed was now much larger than the one I started with, and so I was sharpening that and keeping the fire going, you know, constantly looking up and down. You know, being ex military, you think in terms of likely avenue of approach. You know something's going to come towards you. There's going to be likely avenues that they'll take to get you. So I'm looking up and down the likely avenues of approach, which is basically north and south. And it was getting after midnight, and I'm thinking, you know, I don't know.

38:18 If I don't just something doesn't happen pretty soon, I'm just going to get a good night's sleep and the head back down to the creek in the morning, and I think it was about one o'clock in the morning, still sharpening the stick, looking left, looking right, and I looked up to my left and looked square into a pair of nocturnal eyes. And there was the funny thing about this. There was no you know, second or two to think, like, what's that. It was instantaneous. I knew that one was standing and I paced it off the next morning. I think it was sixty five seventy feet from me, and the intelligent curiosity that it stared at me with is like no other animal that I've ever experienced out there. And the eyes were well off the ground because I knew my campsite pretty well at that night, I'd been sitting around it for hours, and I knew these eyes are off the ground, and it looked to be standing behind about a nine foot tree that I

39:56 knew was right there because I passed it coming into my camp, and so we stared at each other. It stayed directly focused on me, and I think it had to have been about ten minutes. It was a long time nocturnal eyes and they shifted from side to side as though he was rocking back and forth from one leg to the other, and one eye would kind of disappear for a second, like he is behind that bush, and then it would, you know, come back. And I watched this and so long that my neck was crooked to the side. I didn't want to turn away from him.

40:47 I didn't know what was going to happen. So like the first thing that happened, you know, when I saw his eyes is I knew immediately what it was. And the hair on my back lifted my shirt. I wore a flannel shirt and it lifted it off of my back. And I felt that and I was I remember, like whoa that I've never had that kind of reaction ever, and it was so strong and and you know, my next real thought was, after feeling that happened, was I hope no one has ever shot at this animal. I hope he doesn't have any ill will towards human beings.

41:37 Because he's only got to close about seventy feet. There's there's nothing I can do. And this walking stick and this pepper spray and this throw net and this k bar knife are not going to do, you know, anything. So we stared at each other, And as we stared at each other longer, I started getting really comfortable and getting, you know, this feeling that this is just an intelligent, curious being and he means no harm to me, and I think he knows I mean no harm to him.

42:23 So after minutes, his eyes and my eyes like started getting sore. I'm staring at him, and his eyes started getting harder to see. And I realized that I hadn't paid attention to the campfire, and that wood burn so quick I had to keep stoking it. And so now I was so completely comfortable with him standing there watching me. I turned my back to him, took two steps to the woodpile, grabbed a big old log and on it over and put it back on the fire, and you know, that old wood just litle it right up, and I couldn't see him anymore. He was gone, so and in that time, you know, I wanted to see his body, you know, I wanted more confirmation as much as I knew what stood there for ten minutes and stared at me like no other animal. Now I could see a mountain lion doing that, but you know, it's a smaller set of eyes lower to the ground. There was nothing for a mountain lion to get off the ground.

43:39 There. It was, you know, kind of a sparse, little nine foot you know, growth whatever it was, and nothing that would support a mountain lion. So and while this staring thing went on, raised my left hand. You know, at first, I didn't feel comfortable raising anything, but at one point I got comfortable enough to raise my left hand and I put his eyes underneath my thumb, and I could see that a lone pine tree just came above the edge at the top of my hand. So basically his eyes were a hand with below this single tall pine And I'm like, okay, I got my bearings. I know exactly where he is, I know exactly how high his eyes off are off the ground. Tomorrow morning when I sized this all up, and I thought about, you know, after he left, I thought about going and looking for tracks, you know, with a flashlight. But it's really hard seeing tracks in grass and hoars floor and all that, especially at night with a flashlight. It just doesn't have any three dimensional perspective.

45:08 Bigs A society will be right back after these messages. So I sat there for the rest of the night, and I stayed up very excited, and I thought he came back. I thought I saw his eyes, but further back up the logging road, because he had walked in on a logging road up to my campsite. He didn't come through the brush, and so I think he went back out the same way he came him. And I could swore I could see his eyes again, but further back.

46:06 So I thought, you know, he'd come back to see if I'm still here when i'm you know, I'm up to So the next morning, the sun comes up and I wait until I got really good light, and I don't want to disturb anything and go over there and mess anything up, but I go over to the logging road and I could see on the sides of the logging roads up there, there's this grass that grows like a foot tall, and I could see perfect I think they were about eighteen inches long by seven inches wide, perfect human shape, No toes, you know, just a big flattened step step step step step up behind that tree that I knew he was standing behind. And I could see that it looked like he had been shuffling around there because his prints were just, you know, all on top of each other, and it basically was just like a shuffled area. And I was like, he walked in right here, nice and quiet, walk right down this logging road right on the side of it, threw this grass up to this tree and stood behind it and watched me for ten minutes. And so I go back to my you know, campsite. It was either before or after,

47:40 I remember, and I put my hand up to that lone pine and looked to see where his eyes were on the bottom edge of my thumb, and it was at the top of that tree. And it all added up to him standing there and standing behind it and shifting back and forth and and that, and I was like, wow, I was pretty stoked. So I had, you know, the hair sample, and I did take pictures of the of the grass where the tracks were, but you know, it's just it doesn't come out worth anything. It's not even worth anything. So and I don't know what happened to those, but anyway, so I'm like, well, I could hang out here and you know, see if I can get another encounter.

48:44 But I was actually pretty excited to get back, and you know kind of I don't know, I just I was ready to go, and uh, not that I was, you know, afraid of anything. But I felt like that was a pretty good experience. So I packed up everything and I had, like, I think it's about sixteen miles to get back to Bluff Creek Campground and that was going to be my goal. And a lot of it was uphill, and so, you know, I wanted to get back to Bluff Creek Campground. So I headed out and I'm walking up the logging road out of my camp, the same logging road that I believe he had walked in on. And I I'm only about seventy five feet up the logging road and all hell breaks loose in the brush to my left, and it is huge. Whatever it is is huge. So those Alice packs have quick releases on the shoulder straps, and I hit the quick releases to dump the pack and grab the pepper spray.

50:17 And you know, before I could even get the pepper spray out, I could tell it was going away for me. And it was making an amazing amount of noise and it wasn't going around trees. It sounded like it was going through trees. I mean the brakes were I mean, it was whatever it was was extremely powerful and it was very fast, and it was crashing through the woods away from me, and I tried to listen to you know, you know, in the forest floor, and it sounded by people.

50:59 It didn't sound quadrupedal, but you know, everything happened really fast, but it definitely sounded like sounded like he laid up there the whole night, and he actually had a vantage to my campsite from where he would have been laying to lie there the whole night and watch me. And I surprised him by heading straight out of my camp the next morning and walking right towards him, and he just bolted and I could hear him run down the mountain side and he was covering a lot of ground really fast. And then I could hear him get down to the bottom and then start going up the other side of this little valley, this like ravine and actually this really huge ravine, more like a little valley. And I was like, whoa, you know, adrenaline rush. And so that was it. I put my backpack on and then headed back to Bluff Creek campground. And the thing that's weird about this, and I know a lot of people you know, talk about esp and you know other things.

52:20 One thing that I did get when I was looking at him is a real sense of you know, there's no worry here, you know, looking at him, it was just an intelligent, curious and I got a sense of loneliness. I don't know why. It's maybe in my head, I don't know. But anyway, so I make it back to bluff Crete campground and I'm taking a shower and I'm pretty amped up, and I'll never forget this. I'm just scrubbing my hair on my face and I was doing it so vigorously i jammed my little finger into my eye socket covered in soap, and I'll never forget that.

53:14 But anyway, the thing that I was thinking while I was in the shower is I don't want to tell anybody where this happened. I didn't want to tell anybody where he was, and I thought that is absolutely strange. You put all this time and effort and planning into going and doing this and hoping to have an experience, but then you don't want to tell anybody really about it or where it happened, specifically where it happened. I didn't want people going in there, and so I kept it to myself for a long time. But but you know, now I've shared it because you know, a whole bunch of people can go in there, and you know they can take care of themselves. But anyway, so let's see, I'm going down my my list here of things I was going to try and remember. Oh well, so I've made a number of visits to that particular area of Bluff Creek and it's a beautiful area. It's really wide open in this one section. I don't know if any other sections like it. And I didn't realize that at

54:46 the time, but there's a feeder creek that feeds into Bluff Creek right there, and it's called Bigfoot Creek. Two words, not one word, big a creek, And so I thought, well, it got its name years ago, possibly for a reason. And the other thing I thought, and I'm pretty sure I used to get a map every year I went up there, a forestry map, and I could swear one year they did not have Bigfoot Creek as the name of that creek, and then another year they did, but I'm not sure about that. But anyway, so let's see any questions or are you there?

55:48 Yes, the gentleman who was looking at your hair was that doctor Fahrenbach. He was the second person I sent hair samples too, and he sent he sent me a letter back, which I have no idea where it is that he said he did he did not know what it was, and he talked about the inner medula or whatever. But he did not come back and say it was a vice or that inconclusive, which I thought was very interesting. And I later seen him in TV shows talking about a hair sample that he had received around the same time that I had submitted my hair samples, and he said those are the ones he used to test all other bigfoot hair hair samples against. Right, So I don't I don't know if it was mine.

56:48 Here's what I'm thinking, because yeah, I've seen those two, like those old nineties docs that he's in, like the Henry Franzoni one, and then he's talking about the gold standard hair. And if I was to guess it, sounds like that was that was probably your hair, was like is the gold standard fair and back hair? I think it was because the timing is right. And yeah, and and you know I did this before, you know, bigfoot hunting was at least as far as I know, you know, when I said I went looking for bigfoot.

57:32 Everybody was like, how ridiculous now you say that, and everybody's like, how cool. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, back then I think, you know, I sent it to him and he's like, whoa, you know, what's this guy sends me some hair thinking it might be a bigfoot. And so anyway, he sent me the letter back, and I was, you know, really satisfied with the letter that you know, he didn't say it was a bigfoot hair, but he didn't say it was any other kind of hair. And he said it had some similarities to human hair, but it wasn't human hair. So and if I remember quite correctly, it was you know, a bit wavy and you know, not short, not real long. But anyway, I also gave some hair to Peter Gatia. I gave out all my stuff. I was like, you know, I'm not one to keep stuff.

58:38 I don't know why. I just want to have the experience and you know, to get proof. So I didn't keep a lot of stuff. So I gave Peter Gatilla some and he was kind of surprised. I just gave him to him. And and and those were some in a baggie too. I think with some twist off Tree and SAP. But you know, back when I got back to southern California, you know, I met with Danny Perez and you know, we met at a restaurant and then I don't I forget who it was. It was either Danny Perez or Peter Gatillez said that there was this guy who wanted to talk to me about what I found up there. And uh so we met at a restaurant and he said his name's Carl and he said he's formercy I A. And I'm like, well, okay, you just come right out and say it. And he and I think at that time he was flying for the Forestry Service, but he said he was pharmacy I A.

59:52 And he was interested in what I had found, and I you know, told him all about it. And I started telling this story to people so many times. That's why I typed up my original story. You know, friends and family would ask me about it, and I recited the same stuff over and over. So I decided this type it up and hand it out when somebody asked me. And that's how, you know, I think I contacted Matt Moneymaker and told him I had this write up. And you said, send it to me. So I sent it to him. He said, oh my gosh, can I put this on my website?

1:00:37 Big for Society will be right back after these messages. So I said sure, and you put it on the home and back then the BFR website was like, I don't know, it was like almost brand new. It was like a couple of pages. Did you have any dealings with Peter burn at all? Yeah? Yeah, I forget what year it was, because I went up in ninety three, ninety four, ninety five, ninety six.

1:01:19 Matt Moneymaker and I went up there. I took him to that campsite and showed him the whole you know, where it happened, where it stood, the whole nine yards, and we drove up together. Yeah. Matt and I were buddies for a while when I lived in Laguna Beach. So yeah. On one of my trips, I came back through Oregon and stopped in at the Bigfoot Bigfoot Research project with Peter Burne. And he had a couple of other people that he was working with, a lady and a guy. I used to know their names, but now I was the database of one of them, fran Zoni.

1:02:07 No I don't think so. Uh, But but the lady she did all the office stuff, and the younger guy, gosh, I used to know their names right off the top of my head. But anyway, I was a database developer for years, and I carried my laptop around with me, and they were had some you know, old way of managing their contacts and phone numbers and conversations and stuff. So I developed a database, a contact database for the Bigfoot research project. While I was there hanging out with him and Peter and I drove around and is I forget it as I think it was like a small car.

1:02:55 But we drove around and did stuff and talked a little bit, and I trying to convince Peter Peter, I know where they are. I know there's a place that has a really high likelihood of successful contact. And I couldn't get any of them. And I think he had a five hundred thousand dollars grant at the time. I couldn't get him to, you know, be interested in that location. So I hung out with him for a while. I forget how long, long enough to develop a little database for him. And so yeah, so I met Peter Burn and so you know, in ninety four, I went back and Okay, I'm starting to get the years mixed up.

1:03:55 But anyway, I spent a lot of time with Al and Mark Hodgson, two really great people. I mean they were just Mark let me sleep in the fire station when I was in town when I wasn't out looking. I don't know if I should say that, but anyway, everybody was fine with it. Yeah, everybody was fine with it. So I hung out with you know, Alan, Mark. You know at that time, Jay Rowland used to be sitting around the outdoor eatery table and I sat with him a couple of times and we would just talk about and he liked talking to me, I think because he knew I was I was like really going out in the woods and spending a lot of time. So he figured, you know, this guy's not just whatever, So he took the time to spent a lot of time talking to me.

1:04:56 And I really interesting guy, had a lot of a lot of old knowledge. So I forget what year it was, it might have been ninety four. So I go back up there and Al contacts John Green so he says, you know, hey, there's this guy down here. He says he's finding stuff, and of course that's John Green's, that's his neck of the woods. I mean, I'm pretty sure it struck a chord with him. So anyway, John Green al got John Green and Bob Titmas to come down and we all went to the location that I've been telling you about, that big open area down by Bluff Creek, and we went down there and I showed him the tree breaks and I showed him you know, tracks, and you know, it could have been bear trail. I definitely have seen some bigfoot tracks. But what I showed him that day, you know, I'm not sure about. But he was not impressed so and maybe rightly so. But anyway, Bob Tittmas took a real liking to me because Bob Tittmas is an old bush guy. You know, he's really

1:06:27 into the field stuff, and he sensed that that's what I was into. And you know, back then, I was chewing Redman and Bob Titmas was I think he was chewing skull. And we sat on a log next to each other, and we definitely, we definitely hit it off. So we spent a little time there and and John said, okay, well how about we take you to the Patterson Gimblan film site. I said, Nah, not really interested in going up there. That's that's, you know, ancient history. I'm more interested in what's going on here right now, Okay. And I don't think I don't think so. I don't think that went over well with John.

1:07:17 This is John Green. Yeah, and yeah, John Green and als let's go, let's go to the you know, we'll show you where it is. And I was like, no, I'm not really interested. I think I think Bob Tittmans had a little smoke on his face together nineties ninety four. Oh wow, Okay, so you're you're like, I gotta so you're hanging out with dudes that were like the ones that we're seeing tracks in Bluff Creek like back in the sixties, like Jay Rowland, Al Hodge and uh Titmus like all those guys. That's incredible.

1:08:03 Yeah. And I spoke to the granddaughter of the lagger who found the fifty gallon drums full tossed over the side you know there. I think there were a couple of guys. He's the most famous, but I don't remember her name, but she's you know, she was the granddaughter. She said, my grandfather told me about the barrels, and and so you know, this is a family member reciting what was told by their you know, their their family member. I talked talked to a lot of interesting people. I talked to a woman in her late eighties who had owned a couple of businesses in Willow Creek. And you know, I went to a I think it was a fourth of July and and every you know, word in town was this guy is hunting Bigfoot, and people would come up to me. And this lady came up to me.

1:09:08 She said, you know, back around the turn of the century, she said, when she was a little girl, she remembered hearing stories of the trash being rated by these things, and also that women weren't allowed to go to the river by themselves. And I mean, this is just you're talking to a very intelligent she's still very sharp, very matter of factly telling me that, yeah, you know, it's been going on for years, and you know, the more you talk to the locals, it's common knowledge.

1:09:52 I also jumped right in the middle of your John Green story, which is terrible. So how did how did that go? That's good? Now, that's good. Well, I never saw John Green again, oh, Bob Tittmas. And you know, around that time before I went back up there, I had called and spoke to Renee de Hinden, Grover Krantz. Those were phone calls, and I also called around to you know, major universities across the country, and they laughed at me. You know, Bigfoot, there's no I'm like, you know, this is science. You know, there's a preponderance of evidence. There's a huge amount of evidence, an eyewitness testimony that these beings exist. You guys are scientists, you know you should want to investigate. And they just all laughed it off.

1:10:59 But you know, yeah, there was some interesting conversations. What kind of things did you talk to Reneede to Hendon about. I think the same thing as everybody else, that there's this area in Bluff Creek that I found and this is the experience that I had, and and about the tree breaks and you know, I don't remember, but that's just what I was talking to everybody about. Wow, you know, it's pretty much reciting the same thing over and over. Hey, I think I know there's I think I know there's a place, and so where we're talking about when you look at the pictures I sent you is right next to that little creek that he's into Bluff Creeks called Bigfoot Creek. And I didn't discover that name until after my first expedition, which I was like WHOA. So anyway, and in later times, so I visited that place again, and that's where I had my second or my third mountain lion encounter. I was down in the flats. I brought my breakfast down by the river and started a little campfire, and I brought a little day pack down there and made my breakfast down there. I mean, it's

1:12:30 just beautiful. I mean, it what an adventure. It's just gorgeous. And so I'm making my oatmeal and I'm stirring it, and I'm facing towards Bluff Creek and I'm kind of like in a you know, a sumo squat over my pot and I'm stirring the boiling oatmeal, and for whatever reason, I got the notion to turn around, and I kind of sliveled on the balls on my feet and I turn around and I'm looking at a mountain lion that is about twenty feet away from me, just emerging from the brush. And where I mean, if i'd awaited, you know, a couple few seconds longer, he'd have been on my back.

1:13:21 So as I face him, I slowly started standing up, and I wore that thrownt, that hammock thrownet on my left front belt and I unsnapped I think it was in a hand grenade holder, a military hand grenade holder, and so I pull out the throw net. I unsnapped the k bar and I have the k bar knife in my right hand and the thrownet in my left hand. And the idea came to me. You know, when I visited my mom, she had cats, and I would play with them by stalking them the same way that they stalk, you know, how they their head is like locked and they only their lower body moves, and they're you know, they just are like coming at you and their eyes and their head just don't even shift, but their lower body just works underneath their head. So that's what I did.

1:14:20 I stood up, and then I crouched lower and I locked eyes on the mountain line and I just didn't move my head. I just started walking towards it with my lower body and it looked at me and it turned to the side, and I swear I remember seeing it's Adam's apple. What you know, I don't even don't even know if mountain lions have Adam's apple, but it looked like it swallowed, and it turned to the left and slowly, keeping us right eye on me, slinked off into the brush.

1:15:04 Big So society will be right back after these messages. Now, you know, I wouldn't suggest anybody else. It worked for me one time. It may not work again, but anyway, it worked perfectly. He's like, no, this ain't pray this thing's coming at me. I'm leaving. So I just thought that was a really interesting encounter. Could have gone a different way. But so, anyway, more stuff that went on down there. Okay, So the more time I spent down there, the more I started looking at these broken trees. And then I started realizing I'm seeing broken trees that had been broken off, the tops broken off and had regrown.

1:16:17 So this had been going on for decades. Like I'm fully convinced now this is an area that these things have been inhabited for a long time, and it's a beautiful place to inhabit. So but I had I had some more confirmation down the road. So I'm looking at you know, twist offs and tracks and all that. I did find some excrement that it totally looked like. There were two eighteen inch padded feet on that had straddled this pile of excrement, and it looked like it didn't look like bare excrement. It looked like human excre but it was a huge pile, just the way it comes out of the intestinentes and coils into a pile. But anyway, I collected some of that. I never turned it in.

1:17:13 I carried it around when I got back. I worked in the IT department. I carried it around the IT department and I got some pretty interesting reactions. I could hear people in the cubicles. There's the guy who looks for bigfoot. You know. It was pretty interesting in the workplace. But anyway, so I had that excrement. I never had a test and it dried up, and I don't know whatever happened to it. But anyway, I found a tree, an older spruce that had been broken off, and I carried a tape measure with me, of course for measuring tracks and whatever. And the break was at fourteen feet There is no way and the top the green top was lying right next to the tree, just like all the others, twisted off and discarded right at the base of the tree. So I'm like, there's no way a bear is getting up there to do anything with the top of this tree without leaving some sign through the branches climbing up. And it was a pristine tree. There was no damage, no nothing, no bends, no broken off anything, all up the side of the tree. I examined that thing for an hour, and I was absolutely convinced that whatever took the top of that tree off reached over

1:18:44 and twisted it off with a strong hand and an i opposable thumb. So I'm looking around the tree, and you know, this is hard packed ground down there by the river bed, you know, in this big open area alongside a bluff creek. And I see a twig that was mashed into the ground, and I see that it's like where a heel was, And then I can see a pretty clear twenty two inch impression, nothing definitive, no nice edges, no toes, just absolute twenty two inch heavy impression.

1:19:34 Something pressed that twig into the ground of great weight, you know, it was like a quarter inch twig, and it was absolutely embedded in that track, So I thought, well, you know, twenty two inch track, that'd be about right for something that could reach across at fourteen feet snap the top of this tree off. So that was another thing I found interesting in that area. And like I said, the brakes that looked like they'd been going on for decades, but I think it was maybe in the ninety four trip or ninety four or ninety five, ninety six, I don't remember now. But I'm exploring the area up along the side of the Bigfoot Creek that feeds into Bluff Creek, and there's a nice kind of trail that goes up alongside of Bigfoot Creek. But there were branches that had been bent over and crisscrossed to where you had to duck.

1:20:49 You couldn't just walk straight up the path. It looked to me like something had done that on purpose. But anyway, but not far from there in the woodline, I found a nest and it was so obvious. As I'm walking through the woodline, I see this green patch that stands out against the you know, the browner forest floor, and I go over to it and it's got all these like spruce or whatever green breakoff branches, all laid out in about an eight foot circle. And I looked around, and there's no trees near this circle that could these could just fall off and end up lying here. Something placed these here, and it absolutely And I've seen now nests on you know, Expedition Bigfoot, and this is this is I'm convinced it was a mess. And it was right there at Bigfoot Creek, right where all the tree breaks were, right where you know, I'm finding all this stuff down there. And so.

1:22:20 Do you have pictures of any of that at all? You know, I I'm pretty sure I took pictures of that nest. But you know, like I said, I got out of a Bigfoot, I got into I was in a difficult relationship in the in the middle of all this, and it started, uh, you know, coming to a head in the late nineties, and I got really distracted. It affected my work and you know, all kinds of stuff, and so I kind of got away from it and and I had these these pictures developed, and you know, I had a shoe box of you know, any of the stuff that I had found. And you know, the way I looked at it is it really isn't convincing.

1:23:12 You know, I could lay out a bunch of limbs in an eight foot circle and take a picture of it. Look, I found the nest. So to me, it wasn't that big of a deal. So if it was a big deal to me, I would have hung on to it and showed it to everybody. But you know, it just it wasn't a big deal. I've always been about getting real evidence, you know, real proof, real encounters. You know, that's you know, the field work. That's always been my goal, not collecting you know, photos and stuff like that. Now I wish I would have saved those. But anyway, so and like I said, I never saw any bear down there the whole time. All the time I spent down there looking around, and I saw bear everywhere else. I have walked up to within ten feet of bear accidentally, when they're on the other side of a bush. I come up so quietly. Didn't you know I was there?

1:24:21 And I didn't know they were there. One time I sat down with my backpack and I'm looking and I hear something behind me, and I looked through the bushes and I see this furry arm like reaches and I'm like, oh my what and I got a better looking It was a bear. I forget what it was doing with its arm, but it was actually two bear and they were about twenty feet away from me. I quietly picked up my backpack and kept walking up the road. But I've walked up on bear in the middle of the night. I mean, like, I look back now, and I'm like, I had too much confidence in that thrownet and cabar knife, so yeah, yeah, I have. I have come up on cubs too, oh boy, and yeah. Walking down the logging road and I hear this scraping sound like on tree bark and I'm like, what is that? And I turned to my left and I see a cub scurrying up a tree. I'm like, oh, I need to get out of here. I don't know where mama is.

1:25:33 You found some caves on Onion Mountain as well. So in ninety five I bought a Klex six fifty and through the back of the through the backpack on the back of the Klex or through my gear. I actually had pouches and stuff and headed up there and uh and which was just really nice. All the roads I had hiked, I was now cruising it, you know, twenty five miles an hour on a kalct six point fifty and so I started exploring and I I'm following this road up and I've come to find out that Onion Mountain and Blue Creek Mountain, Blue Creek Mountain just on the other side of that is famous hotspot. And I've even heard talk of caves over there and that was there's even a videos on YouTube about Blue Creek Mountain Bigfoot. So anyway, I take my Kalex and I go up and I find myself on Onion Mountain and the road leads me to this giant rock quarry and I'm like a rock quarry on the top of this mountain.

1:26:55 They absolutely destroyed the top of this high ground and turn it into a giant rock quarry. I sent you pictures and there was a big platform in the middle of it, like where they put some heavy duty equipment like probably rock crusher or whatever. And then you know, the rock quarry didn't, you know, mean too much to me at that point, because I know they've got to when they're building logging roads, they got to lay down base and stuff, and what better way to put the quarry right at the top of the mountain and drive it down the mountain to you know, to do the roads.

1:27:41 And but I started exploring around and there's this trail that leads out of the rock quarry and I follow it down and I come to this giant pile, odd looking pile of giant boulders that do not look naturally formed. They look like they exploded. They were jagged edged. It totally looked like a cave entrance that had been demolished and it had just fallen down and you know, covered the entrance like it was dynamited, and it was about forty foot wide. I think I got it in that picture, forty foot wide entrance. And so I'm like, you know, this doesn't look right. This totally looks like it was blasted.

1:28:39 And so I'm exploring, trying to get down into the rocks, and I realized there's cold air coming out from these rocks, really cold air. And I think it was in August when I was there, and there was a patch of snow at the entrance to this cave or where the pile of boulders were, I mean August, and there's still a little patch of snow there because the air coming out was cold enough that it hadn't melted. So I'm like, that's totally going into the earth. That's going in. And so I'm convinced now I think that they blasted and created that rock quarry to destroy caves at the top of Onion Mountain because they didn't, you know, the whole logging industry did not want people coming out there and saving the bigfoots from the logging industry, you know, so they had to blast the cave shuts, you know, shut lock these animals in there, keep them away, do whatever.

1:29:48 And so I that's my theory is that they created this rock quarry there dual purpose. One they needed the rock and two they sealed up those cave entrances. So this is my theory. So I ride back to Orleans to the ranger station and I walk up to the counter of the ranger station. There was a female ranger kind of caddy corner back left at a desk and you know, Hi, how you doing. You know, I just had a you know, a couple of questions, you ever heard anything about you know, any caves back there in Bluff Creek. Big for Society will be right back after these messages.

1:30:46 And she said yeah, yeah, oh, really, I said, do you know if they were blasted shut? She said, yeah, yeah, they were, they were blasted shut. I do you know why? Just not? I have no idea. Yeah, you know, do you know when? I mean? I don't remember the conversation exactly, but this is what I got from it. She didn't know why, she knew they had existed, and she knew they had been blasted shut. And I asked her, do you know when abouts this happened? And she said, you know, maybe ten years or so? Agough which and when? As soon as she said ten years, it rang a bell with what the Bluff Creek company owner said to me.

1:31:35 He hadn't heard them come through his property in about ten years. So yeah, So she confirmed that there were caves up there. Now, I've had a conversation online with a fairly well known bookstore owner that I don't need to mention, but he's where there's no way there's caves out there, and even brought a geologist online and said, no, that's not suitable for caves. Now, I sent you an image proving the type of geology that is there. It is exactly what caves come from. I don't know. Did you get those.

1:32:26 Pictures yet, yes I did. Yeah, yeah, but anyway, yeah, so absolutely it looks like the explosion, the lava tubes, the whatever comes up from the inner Earth would come out the tops and sides of these mountains and form these caves. And so I absolutely think and I did. I have another picture that I didn't take good notes, but I think it's the entrance of a smaller cave. I didn't even send it to you because it really doesn't you can't tell much from it. I'm I'm pretty sure that's why I took it.

1:33:11 But I think anybody that spent you know, a fair amount of time up there could find more. And I'm sure they don't want people going up there exploring around and you know, making some discoveries. But I still think that whole corridor right there, because let me, okay, let me move forward, because I'm taking up a lot of time. So as late seventies or early eighties cave destruction is kind of from what I gathered. So anyway, fast forward.

1:33:52 Matt Moneymaker and I went up there, I think in ninety six and hung out. He you know, we're sitting around the campfire. He said, Hey, you want to do a TV show. I said, no, I said, I said, no, I'm not. I'm not sure if this is exactly what I said, but I know this is what is in my mind. I don't want to run around at the behest of you know, some directors and executive producers, you know, with a camera on me while I'm you know, running around the woods. No, I'm not really interested in doing a TV show. I want to get the evidence, and I think this valley is where it can be gotten.

1:34:37 And so no, I turned down his TV offer. Lauren Coleman contacted me and asked me if you could put my story in his book. And you know, I really don't didn't want this is like I said, this is the first time I've even considered an interview or doing anything really in public. And but anyway, Warren Coleman asked if you could put it in the book. I said, no, I'm not really interested, and and he's like, oh, okay. So on a subsequent trip up there on a KLX six point fifty, I'm in town and at one point I had rented out of storage area to keep my gear up there in Willow Creek. So I'm looking at a map and I'm doing a map recon and for some reason, Nikowit's Peak speaks to me, and I'm like, I want to go there. That's interesting. You know, the terrain where it is, it's relationship to Bluff Creek, you know all that. So I head up there on my KLX and I get to the to the base of Nikowit's Peak. The road that climbs up it was like a little intersection there and I look up and I see I forget, like I don't know, thirty yards up the road, I see that the trees from the sides

1:36:10 of the road, you know, these logging roads that they put in when they cut stuff down to make the road, the naturally growing pines and spruce start regrowing, you know, on like five to ten foot swaths on either side of the logging road, and so on the sides of the logging road going up to Nikowit's Peak, the trees were all green, healthy, fairly tight together, like they had just grown, you know, on their own natural pattern. And they're all about three four maybe five at the biggest inches in diameter at the base. And I looked up the logging road. I'm thinking, I'm going to ride my motorcycle right up to the top of Nikowitz Peak. But there's no way. There are trees pulled from either side cross hatched for about one hundred yards up the road.

1:37:23 I'm like, what in the heck? So I'm like, my first thought is, no one is going to spend their time pulling these trees over. First of all, you'd need a pickup truck or a big four wheeler with a chain and hook to pull these trees over. And I mean, I just didn't see any way. And so I looked at the bark on all these trees, and there was nothing wrong with the bark. There was no damage, there was no chain mark, you, no teeth marks. It was those something with a big, padded hand had gripped these trees and just pushed puld or whatever them over in a cross hatch pattern for about one hundred yards. So I had to park my motorcycle, which I wasn't real comfortable doing, at the bottom of Nikolit's Peak, and I had to jungle gym over these trees to get up the road. And I know I didn't take a picture.

1:38:39 I don't think I took a picture of that. I so wish I did. That would be one of the best pictures I wish I had now. But I always share this, you know, because you know, anybody who goes out there looking, you know, you get you can find some really astonishing things. And so the only thing I could come up with that had the power to pull these three four inch trees over in a pattern, one to the left, then one to the right, and then one to the left and one to the right. It was like, definitely did not want anybody coming up that road, and if you did, you were going to make a lot of noise with the chainsaw before you could even start going up. So I parked my bike and I jungle gymmed over the trees and got to some clear logging road and then walked up to the top. Now I don't know if it was my mind that was, you know, playing with me, because I already had the feeling that they were up here and they didn't want anybody coming up here, so that was already on my mind.

1:39:50 But while I was up there, I was like, I really felt uncomfortable, the most uncomfortable I had ever felt. And and it was a really interesting place. The forest floor was like nice pine needles, and it was open, and it was you know, it's beautiful, different than anything i'd seen, and I thought, what a great place to live if you're living in the woods. I mean, this is where I would camp. And so anyway, I didn't see anything that was up there a couple hours. Pretty uncomfortable the whole time I left. Thank goodness, my bike was fine, not messed with and left. But those trees still to this day amazing. And I did find something like it up in Washington on a trail at the trail entrance at the logging road, there was a broken off treetop, same exact pattern. It was almost and it was the hanging tree part was pointing in towards the trail.

1:41:03 It was like a marker. In my opinion, I think they're they're markers. I think their territorial. You know, this is me is how big I am, this is my territory. Whatever. I think. It was odd that I never saw a bear down there by Bluff Creek, and I'd seen them everywhere else in all my travels around there, but never down there. I think the bear stayed away, stay away from them. I just don't think that they they maybe live well together, just you know, a theory, but anyway, So, yeah, I forget what I was going with them.

1:41:48 So did you then go up into Oregon in Washington and do some things up there as well? Yeah? I did, so I sent you some pictures. So I got a nice pain in job overseas, and I came back with after three years, a nice chunk of change and bought a four x four van and fitted it with four computer workstations, audio video. I had three hundred and sixty degree night vision cameras on the roof, along with a parabolic dish, and you know, speakers and large speakers to call blast. And so I went up there and and I ended up getting a wolf dog that, for all intents and purposes, grew up to be a wolf genetically and behaviorally. He was indistinguishable from a wolf.

1:42:53 He passed away a couple of years ago, but absolutely amazing animal. And I am one hundred against people mixing wolf dogs and selling them. This guy was innately wild, and I could talk to you. You know, it's a whole other subject about genetic memory. This guy had the genetic memory of a wolf, and he triggered on certain things. He already knew certain animals, he knew the difference between horses and elk. I mean, I could go on and on, but anyway, he disrupted my whole last hurrah at bigfoot hunting because I had the whole nine yards, I had this van completely, I had a thirty foot custom trailer built for living in the in the back country. But anyway, yeah, so I went up there. We did do a little expedition there. I heard from the locals there's a river that led down to the ocean that the Bigfoot u there's a corridor to go from the mountains down to the ocean. And we camped out there and we got a whoop woop going around our campsite. Sounded sounded like pretty genuine to me. But anyway, so then I went down to southern the Southern Olympic Peninsula, and so I built a custom cage in the back of my four

1:44:24 by four for the for the wolf. Also had a white German shepherd at the time she helped raise Zorro was his name. And so I'm in the in the hardware store and I'm buying a bale of straw to line the back of the cage in the back of the van with and the young guy that's helping me with a bale of straws. I said, so, you ever hear anything about bigfoots around here? So I'm at the southern end of the Olympic Peninsula right now. Is I think exactly where they're doing expedition Bigfoot? Right at that fork where it goes right and left. I've been trying to figure that out too. Yeah, I think I know exactly where they are, and I think if I looked at a map, I could figure out by the valleys and everything when they show the map. But anyway, so I asked him, I said, you ever heard He said, oh yeah. I said really, He said yeah. I said, back in high school we used to go out on the weekends up by the dam and listen to him screamed.

1:45:25 At each other big for society, who will be right back after these messages? I'm like, are you serious? He said yeah. I said, where's this dam? So he told me where the dam was. I went back up to the north end of the peninsula, got three guys together, a couple of just local guys and one ex cop, and brought them down and the mission was the dam. So we go to the dam, and there's a nice place to camp down at the bottom.

1:46:16 It's a I think it was about a one hundred yards from the river that comes down out of the mountains, and then there's a steep climb up to the dam, and the two local guys, me and the cop stayed by the campfire. Zoro I had to drive a three foot steel steak into the ground with a chain on it to keep him at the campsite. I mean, I got I got him to be a companion in the wilderness, but there's no way I could responsibly let him off leaf. I mean, his instincts and his drive was way too much.

1:46:57 If you're cooking out like a couple hundred yards away and hamburger, he gets a whiff of it, and your little four year old's running around the camp, he'd take her down. So anyway, that's why I'm against animals being bred like that. So anyway, so I got Zoro stake to the ground, and me and the ex law enforcement police officer are there, and I send the two other guys up the mountain with radios and we got radios at base camp. And I mean I had all kinds of I had thermal and it was sitting on a you know, a pivoting head. It would swivel back and forth, and we were watching the monitors for any thermal up on the hill side. You know, I had the whole setup, didn't have the bionic ear set up yet, and actually I think I don't even have had the thermal yet, not to put that up later. But anyway, me and the X copper standing by the fire and the two locals that I'd shown them tree brakes and stuff, so they were all briefed on what to look for, and they're climbing up the mountain. You know how quiet it is in the woods in the middle of the night, so far away from civilization. We could hear those guys crashing through the brush going up the side of the mountain.

1:48:16 Me and the cop just kind of laughed. And so to get a radio call, it says Rory. He said, we're finding tree breaks up here, and I was like, all right, okay, I think we're in the territory. And so at some point shortly thereafter, we hear this stream and the best way I could describe it as a war cry. It's not a scream, it's not a howl. It's like a war cry, and it was powerful and it was up the valley from us. It was a ways off, but it was so clear and powerful. The cop and I just look at each other with saucer sized eyes. And so that first war cry ends, and then we hear another war cry a little bit closer, and we're looking out, you know, to the woods, and then it stops. And then we heard a third war cry, and it's even closer. So these things are lined up down the valley, one after the other in succession, is telling us, you guys need to leave. And so the third one finishes its war cry, and then we hear a fourth one, and it's like right across the river from us. And I said to the cop, I said,

1:49:51 I mean, we're just absolutely amazed. Some of the that would have made some of the best audio. And I didn't have the parabolic a recorder set up yet it was still just barely barely going dark. It wasn't even dark. I mean, I'm not expecting anything to happen till after dark. And so I you know, people say that, no, those are Elk calls or whatever. I've heard ELK, and this is an unmistakably different thing. And I said to the cop, I said, and he's an elk hunter all his life. Washington State X cop firearms the whole nine yards. I says that sounded like lqu said no way. So anyway, the guys they heard these screens and they were like they were scared to death because now now after the screens, it was getting really dark, and they had stayed there the whole night, and you know, it was dark. I don't remember what they did for camp I don't think they did campfire. I think they just stayed up all night and and and we're afraid for their lives.

1:51:07 Was that around Lake Cushman? You know, I don't remember the lake. And if I did a map work on right now, I'm sure I could find the I think it was north of Aberdeen. Okay, but don't quote me on that because I haven't really paid a whole lot of attention to it. Gotcha. You know, I haven't looked it up to narrow down exactly where it was. But there's a dam, and I think it's Aberdeen. But I mean I could look it up tomorrow, and you know, but anyway, it was the interesting succession of war cries that it was sending a message.

1:51:57 First one's way back next one's closer, next one's closer, and the next one's like right across the river from us. It was a definite show of force. And I'm sure they heard us the noise and the guys climbing up into the woods, you know, maybe into their territory, but anyway, it was fascinating stuff at the time. So and then there was Okay, gosh, this is like some of the best stuff right here. Patrick Creek. Okay, yeah, are we are we good? No, We're good. This is this is a new place for me. I'm I'm excited.

1:52:38 Okay, Well, I send you Matt. Patrick Creek is north of Bluff Creek, and Patrick Creek is a little area. It's you know, I'm sure there's probably a creek in their name. But anyway, Matt Moneymaker gets contact from an active law enforcement officer up in those neck at the woods, and the guy the law enforcement officer communicates to Matt. He says, I think I got two of them on my property. He had a little hippie cabin out in the wilderness that he would like go hang out at on weekends or whatever, and he said, I think I got a couple of them around my proper, because I hear these crazy screams back and forth between these two whatever they are. So Matt, you know, I'm working developing software in southern California there and Matt contacts me and he says, Rory. He says, I think I got a hotspot, and so he describes it to me, and I didn't even interview the guy. You know. Matt says, it's good.

1:54:06 I said, okay, give me about a week, got stuff together. Let everybody know. You know, I was a contractor, so I could, you know, kind of come and go. And went up a week or two or whatever later, and so on my way by, Matt said, stop buying my house and pick up a CD. And I've got, you know, his recordings I think he made in Ohio. He said, he's cleaning them up for me and putting them on a CD so that we can blast him out from the hippie cabin up there on the property. And I said, cool.

1:54:47 So I stopped by his house and he didn't have him ready. He didn't have it ready yet, So I just kept going and got up there and met up with the law enforcement officer. In the mail he received the CD from Matt. I go into town by a CD player. He digs up some kind of giant speaker from somewhere. We go out to his hippie cabin. We get it all set up in the in the living room of this you know, hippie cabin, and it was kind of a cool big bay window, like two barn door kind of window things that opened out overlooking the valley.

1:55:30 And this was really heavy, heavily forested. You really couldn't see anything, but it opened out and it was just air. I mean, there was no screen, there was no glass. No, they just opened and there it is, and it overlooked a little dirt road that you know, ran up and by the cabin. And uh. So we get everything set up and it's me and the law enforcement guy and his significant other and uh and I forget what time we started, I don't know, nine or tennis dark, and we blasted out a call, you know, Matt's Hell, and it sounded pretty good. And so we waited, you know, maybe fifteen minutes or so. We blasted it out again, and we waited. We got the light on in the cabin and we're just you know, standing around talking bigfoot stuff or whatever. And I know, maybe the third or fourth time, we're standing there talking and we hear this whistle right in front of the cabin. And this is not a bird. The power behind the whistle, I mean, you immediately know this is coming from a healthy set of lips and lungs. And I've spent a ton of time in the wilderness and never heard anything like this,

1:57:03 And so I immediately knew what it was, because you know, they put some they're called whistlers in some places. You see them on totem poles. Their lips are puckered like the whistling, and I immediately thought I knew what it was, and I turned towards the other two and I said, that's a squatch. And then the lady said drop the lights. So we turned out the lights and then we listened and nothing more. I mean, I forget how much time went by, but you know, nothing more happened. So I'm convinced that that was a squatch that we got to come to the cabin it. You know, my guess is it thought there was a squatch in that cabin, and it was calling to it, Hey I'm out here, you in there. And so the next more they leave early.

1:58:02 I mean he's working every day on the coast, and it's at least an hour. I think it was from the hippie cabin to the coast. You know, this is in the area of Patrick Creek up there, and so he leaves really early the next morning, and the next morning, I think it was the next morning. Anyway, I go out to my car. He's gone. I got to get batteries or something. And it's still pitch black. I mean, it's really early. And I opened my car door and I'm bathed by the interior light. And when I opened the door, I hear behind me, and this is the exact whistle they used, the same whistle the whole time I was there. It was. And so when I opened the door, it sounds like it's like twenty feet behind me.

1:59:08 I hear this whistle, and I slowly turn around, and the only thing I could think to do was answer it with a whistle. So I whistle back to it, and then it whistled back to me, and then I whistle back to it, and it whistled back to me, and then I whistled back to it, and I think that was it. I don't think it answered me after that, but I never heard a sound, and this was not a bird. I mean, this was a more powerful whistle than a bird. So I get my gear and I go back to the cabin. He shows up that evening. Oh that day, I dig a foxhole while he's at work, and it's kind of a caddy corner across from the cabin.

1:59:56 And what I thought was a good position for me to spring out of the fox over the camera if one of them was going to come by the cabin again. It was just a perfect shot down the logging road. Big for Society will be right back after these messages. Next to the cabin to get it on film. And at the time, back in ninety six, I had a Sony High eight with you know, the latest and greatest night vision screw on monocular that you could put on the front of a Sony an itt Jen whatever. And I thought, I was, you know, pretty set, And I put tape over the led on the camera so when it was on you couldn't see, you know, a little lighter anything. And so I dig this foxhole and it wasn't real deep, and I made a little seat so I could just sit down and basically my eyes were just at ground level. And I, you know, I wrote this up for the BFRO two, the stories on there, but I just sat there, you know. And in the military, you know that movement will give you your position away.

2:01:27 I mean, people can be looking straight at you and if you don't move, there's a good chance they don't even see you. So I didn't move. And a fox And I know, people think I'm probably making this out, but you know, I don't make any of this stuff up, just the way it happens. But a fox comes walking by my Fox show on the logging road and there's only like five feet in front of my eyeballs and it just walks by, didn't even know I was there, and just walked right on by me. So I thought, wow, I'm, you know, doing pretty good. So and you know, that's that night and I and I had kind of briefed the LEO Law Enforcement off. So I briefed the LEO. Hey, I got a I dug a fox hole today. You know, if you can blast out, you know, the sounds from the cabin like we did, you know last night, we can get it to run by. I got my camera, you know, and this time I had it three fifty seven on me and so I was kind of comfortable in the foxhole. So uh, he said sure. So he says, I'll do it from the second floor. So he goes up to the second floor, which is the bedroom, and he opens the window and he blasts out a call and then I think, you know, just fifteen minutes later, he blasts out another call, and then I hear him snoring.

2:02:55 So you know how quiet it is in the woods. My gosh, it sounded like he was right next to me. So, I mean, the poor guy, he's working his butt off at work in his day job, getting up early and coming out and staying up late at night. So he fell asleep, but we got a couple of calls out. So I thought, well, you know, I'm just gonna sit here. It may take him a while to get here. So I'm sitting there and I hear this crazy whistle. I can't even I used to be able to mimic it a little bit, you know, just really crazy and powerful and clear and clean running up to the front of the cabin. It was like a last ditch effort to not put itself in jeopardy. But it still wanted to communicate into that cabin, and so when I heard this crazy whistle and it's coming towards me by the cabin, I think to myself, this is it. This is the money shot. I raised the sony out of my lap and lift it above the edge of the foxhole and lean a little bit towards the road because there was this little, tiny, scraggly shrub thing next to the foxhole and I had to just get around to the side of it. And just as I made that, you know,

2:04:28 all in one motion move, I hear a whistle directly across the logging road from me. And it was a short, brief, powerful whistle. And then the other whistle that was going by the cabin stopped and it went dead quiet. And I'm thinking to myself, whatever made that whistle is like right across the logging road from me. It's like, how did it even get there without me knowing? And but I, you know, I heard it. It was so close, and but it warned the other one. It was watching me the whole time. And so what I've later come to realize is my theory is that when these animals come, they'll do a three sixty around you to get the lay of the land and figure out where everybody is and before they do anything. And so what I think they did is they they did the three sixty around, saw me in the fox hole. He set himself right across from me, and what was watching every move I made?

2:05:43 And when I raised that camera, he blurted out a powerful whistle which shut the other one down. It all went quiet, and I thought I saw, you know, nocturnal eyes at different times for the rest of the night, in different positions, but that was pretty much that was. That was it for the night. So the next day, it's really cold. I think this was in October. It's gonna be a really cold night. So he goes to work, he comes home. I say, tonight, I'm gonna sit on the porch with my camera because now they know where the foxhole is. They saw me sitting in it last night.

2:06:34 That gives up. So I sit on the deck right by the door. But the door cracked and they had a fire I'm pretty sure, going in a wood stove inside, and I was hoping I would get a little bit of heat coming through the crack of the door, but that wasn't happening. I was out there freezing my butt off, and so I got the camera in my lap again and he black out the calls, and I'm sitting on the porch and I think after about an hour, I hear oft in the far distance. You know, I don't know, I'm just gonna throw out a few hundred yards just as a number. But I could hear this and then another.

2:07:22 There were two different tones, which at the end of this night, I thought one was a male and the other was a female. And so I listened to these whistles. Much like in the military when you're on patrol and you signal back and forth so you know that you guys are still together and what your position is. These guys were doing the same thing. It sounded like they were about fifty yards apart, and I could hear the whistles getting closer and closer. I'm like, well, this is really strange. It just like they're telling me they're coming. I mean, why would they tell their movement towards the cabin like this. I know exactly where they are, and they're getting closer. They're coming in from right over there.

2:08:09 And so they got up to pretty close to the cabin, I don't know, maybe fifty yards, and then the whistling stopped. I was hearing it like every few minutes as they were coming up to the cabin. Now I didn't hear it for like half an hour. It was just just quiet, but I knew they got close. So what I think they were doing is they got close to the cabin and then they did their three sixty to figure out, you know, what's going on here, And they saw me up on the deck, sitting there. And and as I'm sitting there, I hear what sounds like a cow walking through the trees, I mean huge, not concerned with noise whatsoever, walking through the trees from the right, which is where the whistles had ended, and walking along the side of the logging road in the bushes and trees. I could hear it as clear as day. I swear it sounded like a cow. And it walked up and then it stopped right across the logging road from me, and I can't I can't see nothing. And you know, I didn't really want to raise the camera unless it was a really good reason, because the last time it just shut

2:09:40 everything down. So I'm sitting there squinting and trying to see and listen. But whatever was coming through the woods stopped, and then I realized it stopped right behind my thought hoole. So it walked up through the woods, made a lot of noise, stopped right up my thought soul, and now had a perfectly clear view of me sitting on the porch. I thought, what a twist, what a turn of the table. So, you know, this is what leads me to believe there's some game playing. The intelligence, you know, the tactics. You know, they're they're open to you know, a little, you know, mixing it up a little, a little if they if they believe that you're not a threat to them. And so then I didn't hear anymore after that. I did record the whistles as they were coming. I had I turned the camera on in my lap so it could just record the audio. But you know, it doesn't mean anything.

2:11:00 I played it for people when I got back to California. You're like, yeah, that's interesting. But anyway, so I just thought that was a really interesting encounter. So it ended up spanning three, I think maybe four nights of activity, but the same whistle I ended up using to train my my my shepherd. I had a shepherd too, which I I thought was a little sadistic. If we'ever out in the woods in the sasquatch whistles, it will go running towards them.

2:11:45 But anyway, that's that's yeah, that is that's kind of weird. Do you so, do you have like any audio or video archives from that time? No. I I I did have the camera on when I raised up out of the fox hole at the front of the cabin, and uh, you know, I looked at it and I didn't see anything. A neighbor across the street was like, oh my gosh, let me let me look at it, let me let me do some of the elyss on it. And he looked at it, and you know, it was the old real you know, I h tape and he looked at I think I see something right here. I looked at it and like, no, I don't think that's anything. I think that might be that little twig tree like getting brushed or something as I raised the camera. But anyway, you know, I just I don't keep stuff. You know. The main reason I share this is to for people who want to go out and experience be open and if if you see or hear these these kinds of things, you know, it may warrant some further research because you might be you know, in a spot but like it. You know, I don't

2:13:19 even think I got to that one trail up in Washington, there were two trees on either side of the trail, opposite of each other. They were about five inches in diameter, and it was though something had rocked up that trail and grabbed the two trees at whatever height above the ground and then just pushed them over. These are absolutely completely healthy trees. When they were broken over, it was white. It was a white break, you know, the inner part of the tree was just all white. It was a growing, healthy tree. But something pushed both of them over the same way. And it looked as though something walked up that trail and just pushed them over and kept going.

2:14:11 I mean, it just it's that kind of strange stuff you see. And there's no marks on the trees. There's no chain marks, you know, there's nothing to give anything away of something pulling it over. And you know, you talk about trees that get broken over with you know, some of the locals they ah, you know, it's probably snow damage. No way in the places that these trees are and the surrounding trees around them. There's no way that these individual trees get singled out from snow. And that was in Washington. You said, yeah, that that one was in Washington. The Olympic Peninsula is just a great place. That's why I he's going to do all my research with the custom trailer and four by four van, and that's I was.

2:15:11 I was really geared. I thought, you know, I'm going to be the one who's going to get the encounter. I'm going to get him to come up around My trailer had like sixteen cameras all around the perimeter of the roof. You know, if I could get him to come to me. So anyway, but then I got Zoro and my whole life was consumed by him. He was a twenty four to seven animal, and you can see on my x page, my Twitter file. I talked a little bit about, you know, raising him. And you know there are people out there that have kind of wolfy looking dogs and they'll tell you, yeah, it's you know, he's really wolf, but you know they're dogs. We have a low content wolf dog right now that we rescued.

2:16:06 She looks pretty wolfy. I could take a picture of her and put her on social media and say this is darn near a pure wolf, and people would believe it all day long, when in fact, she doesn't have the DNA, she doesn't have the genetics. She's just got the look alike. And she's the doggiest dog you will ever meet. But Zora was a whole different animal. My wife wouldn't be in the room along with him for the years that we've been together and Zora was with us, she would not be in the room alone with him. Wow. And if she felt if she fell down outside, thank goodness he was in an enclosure, because he would have been honor, you know, to fall down in front of an animal like that. So it triggers an instinct, a display of weakness. It's time to pounce. And she'd go out and feed the chickens and fall down, and he'd cover about thirty feet in a second and be right up to the fence teeth, Baird. It's just it's a different animal, of course, you know. With me, you know, of course, it's I call it Stockholm syndrome. I'm the captor, he's the prisoner.

2:17:31 Right there, you go. Yeah, But anyway, I think I think I've covered, you know, pretty much everything. I hope, you know, people find some of this stuff interesting. Rory, it is. It is extremely interesting. There's Is there a way that there's going to be some guys I know that are going to listen to this and they are going to to have questions about potential questions about like the caves on Onion Mountain and stuff. Is there a way that people can reach out to you at all? Yeah? Absolutely, you can give them my email.

2:18:17 Okay, gotcha? Yep, okay, so the one that you. Said, and you know, I think yeah, and you know, like the caves up on Onion Mountain, I could have spent a lot of time up there, but I didn't. You know, I found what I found, and I found what looked to me that blasted cave entrance and I spent you know, the day there exploring that, and I was convinced that was a cave engine entrance and it was blasted shut and I went down to Orleans confirmed it with a ranger at the range of station, and that was it. That was good for me. But who knows, you know, somebody can go up there and find some open caves that are just you know, off the beaten path, and they may find that they're still being occupied from time to time. That Bluff Creek Valley, I'm convinced that has been inhabited for centuries and they go in and out of it and you know, stay or whatever. But I'm convinced if you wanted to find a place, I would give that a pretty good shot now. But you know, it's been quite a while since I've been up there.

2:19:38 Maybe it's completely dry, you know, but those guys on Expedition Bigfoot, they seem like they're you know, they're in it. Yeah. I mean, there's there's some good some good guys out there right now. But Rory, it's been a pleasure talking to you, and thank you for sharing what you experienced over the years on my show. I greatly appreciate it, and I'm sure that my listeners appreciate it as well. Thank you for coming on. Okay, thanks for having me. Jeremiah, have a good night. You got it, sir. Just wanted to take a few minutes to say thank you to you all my listeners for listening to the podcast. Please take a minute to help out the show by subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so you don't miss any notifications and share the episode on YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us on a podcast, thank you so much, make sure that you're subscribed share the show with a friend. Really, it's all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've had a Bigfoot encounter related to the following or know someone who has, please reach out to me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com us on my email. Here's a list the Subtle Lake area of Oregon, Rainbow, Oregon, McKinsey Bridge area, Sweet Home,

2:21:10 pretty much that entire area, the north part if you get what I mean. I'll see you back next time. Listeners. Sasat Summerfest this year July eleventh through the twelfth. It's going to be fantastic July eleventh through twelfth in Greenwaters Park and Oakridge, Oregon. And listeners, if you're going to go, you can get two day ticket for the cost of one if you use the code b FS like Bigfoot Society, but BFS and I'll get used some off your cost. Priscilla was nice enough to provide that for my listeners. So there you go. I look forward to seeing you there, so make sure you head over to www dot Sasquatch Summerfest dot com and pick up your tickets today