Tracking Sasquatch: From Alaska to Massachusetts

0:00 You're listening to Big for Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. Tonight, we're joined by Norman so Lee, a man who's spent decades searching for Sasquatch, but it's the strange paranormal experiences that have him questioning everything, from eerie, unexplained sounds in the Cascade Mountains of Washington to the mysteries of a farm in western Massachusetts. Norman's journey reveals a deeper connection to the unknown. What happens when you've seen enough to make you question the very nature of reality. This is Norman's story, So stay with us, all right, Bigfoot Society. I've got the privilege of talking to Norman sole Lee today. How's it going today, Norm.

0:40 It's going great. It's the privilege to talk to Norm today. Norm reached out after I had just released a recent Massachusetts episode, and he reached out saying he's had some interesting things happen over the years over multiple states. We'll see where we get to and where we go today. There's a few different places we could go, but you know, Norm, it's just it's a privilege to have you on the show. You have sent me a few things to look at and you're doing some really really cool research that people might be able to see in the coming months. We'll see how that turns out, but it's very exciting stuff.

1:28 Do you mind sharing how you first got involved with the Bigfoot topic? To begin with, Well. I'm one of that older generation Jeremiah that can remember watching the Patterson Goodblin film in a movie theater. I went with my father and I got to see it, and of course that intrigued me. That I was eight or nine years old at the time, and then late junior high high school, I of course read all the books that could get a hold of John Green Rene a hand and that'll well, that was a bummer. I think we're connected, but I'm not hearing you.

2:36 Oh dude, this is so weird. Okay, So I'm just I should have told you. We have weird tech stuff happen all the time on this show. For some reason or another, we just got disconnected. My board decided to mute me. These weird, weird stuff we'll probably get like voice modulation stuff that hops in. It's just it's a fun time. So you were talking about Renade's a hind in When we were disconnected. I come from that old school that actually watched the Patterson Gimlan film in a movie theater. I was probably nine years old or so at the time, and as I got a little bit older mid to lateeens, I read every book I could get a hold of the old guard John Green, Renee do Hendon, Lauren Coleman, Grover Krantz.

3:28 I was in Washington State as a kid growing up, so Grover Krantz actually was somebody I followed quite a bit. I did not get actively involved in anything I would call research or encounters until about nineteen eighty one, somewhere in there, where I did actually by myself. I did an overnight going up into the Cascade Mountains hoping to run into some sign and that was interesting. I got confused by how bizarre it was that an elusive mountain ape was showing up in odd places, looking in bedroom windows.

4:12 And I actually tried consciously to drop sasquatch for years. But then in my later life I started having incidents happened to me and I had to pick it up again. Yeah, okay, so there's a lot that was just said right there that I'm really interested about. I would love to hear. So what happened. You did a solo in the Cascade Mountains. Was that was in Washington, I'm guessing. Yeah, the Washington State Cascades off of Highway to Yeah. And I, you know, this is the first time I tried to look for Sasquatch. And I don't know if you want to hear some of the story, but I find it comical.

4:58 Oh absolutely, yeah. All right. So at the time, I'm twenty twenty two somewhere in there, and I was already an experienced hiker and backpacker. So I actually did kind of a map dousing thing. I just looked at top all maps and figured out a place that to me looked like a good place to look for sasquatch. It was a high mountain lake that had no trails going into it. There were trails for the first part of this five mile hike, maybe two and a half miles or so. I went in on those trails, and then I climbed up to a spur ridge. And I'd carefully planned that route because ridge lines tend to be more free of blowdown, and this was the heavily timbered area. So I went up to the lake. Nothing unusual happened. I got up to the lake. It was getting kind of late in the day.

5:51 I mainly just set up camp that night on this high mountain lake, and it started raining, so I went into my tent fairly early and was looking forward to maybe in the morning doing some fishing, looking around for sign tracks, et cetera. And the rain was coming down hard. I was woken in the middle of the night by a long, drawn out, rather high pitched howling sound. It was at a distance, but it did wake me, and I thought, well, this is interesting, but of course I'm good at sleeping, and I went back to sleep. In the morning, I woke up and the rain had stopped.

6:38 I opened my tent opening and I look out at the mud in front of the tent opening, and there was a very distinct impression, deep impression in the mud in front of my tent, maybe three feet in front. And I thought, well, that's odd. I don't think I made that. And it wasn't even really rain much when I got into the tent, but this looks like it was made when there was a whole lot of better out. But I couldn't distinguish anything with the track, and I wasn't smart enough to really measure and see if it was bigger than my boot, et cetera. So I tried to shrug it off. But then something happened, which now we hear about this all the time, but at that time, with the elusive mountain ape theory, it wasn't the kind of thing we heard about. I suddenly felt like I needed to leave. And it wasn't real frightening or anything, but I just had this this push, this impulse to leave.

7:42 It was kind of like, Okay, that was fun, but now it's time to go. And I didn't even think about it. All my plans to go fishing, all my plants to look for sasquatch signed just I forgot all about it. I packed up. I can't remember if I had much breakfast, but I might have. But instead of taking my careful route down, which was a good route it worked great, I just plunged right off the edge of the hillside there, which wasn't easy. There was lots of blowdown and it was kind of a struggle. I even at one point twisted my knee a little bit, and I remember as I was wrapping my knee with the ace bandage, I heard more of what I'd been hearing some on the way down, which was like cracking sticks and the like. It wasn't real obnoxious, but when I would stop, something would snap a couple hundred feet behind me, and I remember literally thinking, boy, there's sure are clumsy deer and elk around here. That was my working theory that somehow I was scaring up deer and elk behind me and they were stepping on twigs and making these breaking branch sounds. I headed heading down with that same impulse to keep moving and move quickly. I got down to the creek at the bottom of the drainage, and that feeling just disappeared. It was like a light switch.

9:16 I felt so much better when I was out in the sun, under out from under the trees in that creek bed. But another odd thing I did is I traveled in that creek bed downstream three quarters of a mile or so before I met up with the trail I had used to come in. But there was no further no further activity, no further oddness on that trip. Do you have any thoughts about what might have caused that impulse to leave, and also just the impulse to just go through the woods, not even stick to a trail.

10:00 Well in hindsight, and this has taken It took almost forty years. Frankly, in hindsight, I do suspect that feeling that impulse did not come from me. Nothing scary had happened to me at that point. I had found the hell on the night just rather interesting, and I was there specifically looking for sasquatch. I found the impression in front of my tent totally mystifying, because I'm still thinking of lusive mountain ape and why would something step right in front of my tent in the night if they were being so careful to avoid the humans that I know that's getting into the paranormal. But there is definitely some things about this phenomenon which doesn't make sense from our standard way of looking at the world. So yes, I do think that that impulse to go down to abandon my original route up, to keep moving until I hit that creek came from outside of me somehow.

11:10 It's extremely interesting. Have you studied that area you were in to see if there's been other documented sightings or encounters too. I haven't gone way out of my way, but I have heard of encounters in the area, so yes, I haven't really researched it. I'm a terrible researcher. I'm more like an experience. I just like to go out and do stuff, okay, And I love listening to the stories too. I listen to podcasts myself, but I haven't gone on BFRORO to check specifically in that area. I would be surprised if it's the Washington State Cascades. It's the west side, it's temperate forest, it's a great location.

12:00 Yeah, I mean it's the Washington Cascades. Are absolutely amazing when it comes to you know, encounters, you have some really really interesting things happen there. But you also had mentioned that you tried to get away from the topic eventually, and is it skipping too far ahead to talk about that or is now a good time to talk about that? Oh, this would be a great time, okay, Because it wasn't that much longer. I was really into it, you know. It was going through newspapers, I was flipping articles. I had a file called Sasqutch. I was fascinated with it.

12:43 But I had this elusive mountain, a thing stuck in my head because of the sources I looked at, and it came to a head when I came across one article about how somebody had found sas watch tracks under their bedroom window on the outskirts of Bellevue, Washington. This is it's like Microsoft Country. It's it's a place. I worked out of Bellevue for a while, and I thought to myself, this makes no sense. What are they doing looking at bedroom windows on the outskirts of Bellevue? And it made so little sense to me that I thought, I've gone as far as I can. This is nothing that anybody's going to pin down. It's like chasing a ghost.

13:37 And I didn't. I didn't avoid it. You know. Friends would still send me clippings and I'd read them, and I'd read articles when i'd find them, but I just decided that I myself was not going to get anywhere looking at this, and I focused on other things like getting married and having a family. And I moved on for a long time. And then something it sounds like it started to bring you back, which is extremely interesting to me. I would love to hear about that. All right, But this is more of the paranormal. So this was approximately I believe it was the spring of twenty and twelve. I at this point was living in interior Alaska, in a very rural area. I was living in a one room cabin. I had only been up there a few months. There were a couple lot of things happening around the cabin. For instance, there was a nearby dog team. I don't know if you know about dog teams, but in Alaska, probably evate individuals will have ten to twelve fifteen dogs, and for recreation or for hauling materials, they will tie up these dogs to a

15:08 sled on winter snow and they will pull that sled into the driver. But a lot of the time those dogs are staked out in the yard, and these dogs would periodically just go nuts, which was odd. I didn't know why they were getting so excited. And I also recall a time in daylight when an owl was just going off, just repeatedly calling over and over again, which that may have been an owl, I don't know. But what really did it for me is odd and I can't explain this, but it was a trigger for me. I had a dream in which somebody was showing me stealthily looking down into a canyon the mouth of a cave, and in front of that cave were lined up I know this is ridiculous. Were lined up ten pairs of sasquatch, and he explained to me that these were mated pairs of sasquatch and that they made for life. And I said, in the dream, if what you're telling me is true, then everything we thought we knew about Sasquatch was wrong.

16:25 And I woke up and what really stuck with me is what I said in the dream. Everything must be wrong. And I started looking into it again, and in the meantime, so much information has been popping up on the Internet and podcasts, et cetera that I had a whole lot to think about reevaluate the elusive Mountain ape theory. So that was that is what brought me back to Sasquatch. Plus I had some experiences in Alaska, not a lot, but I had a few.

17:08 Wow, So that's that's pretty cool. Literally it was. It was mainly that dream, and you're like, yeah, okay, trying to trying to get back into it, figure out what's going on here. That's that's pretty awesome. Did you then after that start going out and looking yourself or in groups after you had that dream? I pretty much mostly done things solo, but yes, After I had the dream, I started educating myself as much as I could. I started uh checking out and following podcasts. But when I had the opportunity in the woods, I was always looking. And I ended up working for the National Park Service and I was stationed in remote part of the park where I would live up to eight days at a time, and I would look there. And I also eventually built my own off road cabin. And I'm also I'm across country skier, a fat tire biker.

18:17 I like to hike as well, And I would say in Alaska, I'm fairly confident. I came across tracks, scat vocals, stick structures, never had a sighting, but I encountered a lot of interesting things that further convinced me there was something. There was a phenomenon at the heart of all this. Was it pretty normal to hear other people talking about sasquatch encounters up in Alaska? Or is that a pretty rare thing? It was, and it is fairly rare. That's not to say I didn't encounter it. I have a friend, and he's a good friend who once he understood that I was a believer, he told me about a daytime siding he had on the Danauli National Park road while walking along the road with a friend who also saw it.

19:25 It was moving quadrupeatedly, which is interesting along one of the braided river bars. But they had an in view for quite some time, and they had seen many bears, wolves, caravou moose, and they knew it was none of those. And while they were talking looking at this, they said to each other, that's a Sasquatch. And there was no doubt in their mind that they saw a Sasquatch. As far as other people, I know lots of people that are interested, and I've also seen some trace evidence as myself, but not so many encounters, although I did end up.

20:12 I was one of the founding organizers of the Boyal Bigfoot Expo up in Fairbanks, Alaska. We put that on two years in a row, and as far as I know, it's the furthest North Bigfoot expo that's happened in the world. And I certainly had opportunity to run into other people that had had encounters and experiences in Alaska, including Fred Rule, which I think is one of the more fascinating people with accounts to listen to. Oh absolutely others. Yeah, I just real. I mean, I would agree one hundred percent that you know Fred's Fred's a great guy. He's been on the show and his channel Subarctic Alaskan Sasquatch I believe is the name, or it's either Alaska Sasquatch. It'll come out either way. It's really good. So everyone checked that out.

21:04 It is fantastic. Do you feel that your encounter that happened in the Washington Cascades has been the closest you've been able to experience something, or do you think there's been a situation that has maybe had more intense things happen, or perhaps even a sighting. I certainly have had more intense things, several of those, and I also had one I believe it was a siding in Illinois, of all places. But I did up in Alaska. Before I left Alaska, I think I was being kept tabs on. And there was one case where I at a close distance what I call a tongue clack.

22:05 As I started my hike out from my cabin and I had a dog with me on leash, our heads both swiveled to the exact same point in the woods. We both heard it. We both reacted to it. We both were very cued into it. I hiked the two point six miles out, and as I stepped out onto the highway approaching my vehicle, another tongue clack behind me. I think actually I was probably being kept tabs on often when I was going back and forth through those woods. So that was interesting just to have that realization of, huh, something seems to be following me around.

22:45 Yeah, it almost sounds like they were marking when you were leaving the cabin, and then maybe even when you're leaving the woods, or like now he's about to leave in his car and stuff like that really makes wondering. Yep, that was my impression keeping tabs on me. Illinois is a area that comes up actually pretty pretty often on the show. A lot of people, I think, maybe not realize how active it is in that state, I mean central and southern, and so I'm curious, what are you able to share what part of the state that interaction took place in, or.

23:32 Yes, and it's ridiculous. And because it's ridiculous, I didn't even identify this as a Sasquatch siding for some time, and then finally I started hearing about encounters reasonably near where I had it, and I thought, oh man, that's what that was. Yeah, I'd be happy to share it. It was not to be confused with the other Woodstock, but it was Woodstock, Illinois were about two miles from that, and that's where Groundhog Day, the exterior shots for the movie Groundhog Day were filmed. But this wasn't in the town.

24:13 This was outside of town. It was Woodlocks and Cornfields is where this happened. And keep in mind, this is forty miles from downtown Chicago, so I'm not thinking Sasquatch, and I still hadn't come back around to Sasquatch. This was I think about two thousand and six. I was on a spiritual retreat of all things, and it was at an old some sort of Catholic center. It had a church in this giant building and it had lots of housing for people to come on retreats. And we'd be doing hipp and groovy stuff during the day and we'd get occasional breaks, and me, being an outdoor lover, I would head for the woods when I would have her break and just do some walk in the woods along with a lot of other people. When I say a lot, you know, maybe there'd be a half dozen, eight ten people walking around in the woods. It was on a forty acre grounds which had both a marshy area and a small pond. I had noticed earlier that there was an odd trail going into the woods. This opening was coming off the mode area, but it was not visible from the building, and I thought, well, that's interesting that there would be a trail there. I wonder why there's a trail, and I thought, well, I need to go check it out. And this was quite a trail.

25:39 It was like four feet wide and trampled. But I'm not looking for tracks. I'm not in that mindset, and I'm not wondering why there's a trail where you wouldn't really expect the people at their treats to go. So anyhow, I head out, I go on this trail an eye. I ste up the hillside, away from the regular trail that most of the people would take, and I'm thinking hip and groovy thoughts. I'm definitely I'm not a part of the environment around me. I'm not really looking around. I get to the point where I'm up above the main trail, but from a different direction than i'd ever walked before, and I maybe one hundred and fifty feet something like that above under dense deciduous canopy. It's a little bit dim under there, but it's daytime. You can still see. And I'm not really thinking about it, but I noticed that there's another form walking down below me, very close to the main trail. And this form was only about five feet six inches tall. It was not big.

26:54 I'm not paying attention, but I did notice that it was oddly fuzzy on the edges, and there was no transition like between shirt and pants, cuffs and hands, etc. It just seemed to be this black, fuzzy form. And I'm still not really paying attention, but I noticed the form is seems to be spying on the people that I can hear coming, you know, people are coming down the usual trail towards this form, and I can see its head leg going back and forth as just trying to look around things, and it's carefully high stepping over brush and branches and the like. And then it goes behind from my point of view, behind a big tree, and I wait for it to come out from behind the tree, and it never comes out from behind the tree, and it wasn't until that happened then that I stopped and thought, wait a second, what the heck was that?

27:53 And I ended up thinking that it was some sort of spiritual manifestation because I'm on a spiritual retreat. Well, I went that route for years until I started hearing that Illinois actually has reports, and then I thought, oh man, what was it that I really saw? So that was my sighting? That's incredible. Wow, But how did other people report similar things happening to them during the same retreat? Or do you think it was just yourself? You know. I told a couple of people about what I had seen, and my best theory was that it was the Guru in some sort of weird out of body form checking up on us, because he implied he would do such things. But I don't see any reason why he'd take a black, fuzzy form if he wanted to be checking up on us. Nobody I talked to reported anything like that. But remember, it took years until I re evaluated that event and began to think, oh my goodness. So I wasn't like asking around, hey, do you have big foot sightings here? It didn't occur to me that there would be bigfoot sightings there.

29:14 The whole sightings around spiritual retreats thing is really interesting. That's a pattern you can definitely notice if you start to dig, I mean, not to rabbit trail too much, but like, I don't know if you've heard of the Monroe Institute where it's like they teach remote viewing. I believe that's in the southeast part of the United States. But I am aware of the Monroe Institute. I think it's actually West Virginia or perfect Yes, I'm very aware of what they are and what they do. I never heard of sightings around there though.

29:54 Yeah, and you know, this is where a little bit outside of of my knowledge zone. But from people I've talked to, you know, and they're not sure if it's actual physical sightings or it's something that they're actually you know, seeing, But there are people at that institute that have multiple instances where they see something that looks like sasquatch when they attend that institute. Also, it's a pretty active area in southeast Iowa that's known for spiritual retreats, but it's also known for a high amount of bigfoot sightings over the years too, and kind of makes you wonder if there's a connection between that, or maybe people that attend things like that are just more aware of what's going on.

30:50 I don't know, but. I don't know either, but it is true that the spiritual life is very important to me, and I do I do. Of the people I know, people that are so inclient seem to have more at least paranormal things happen to them in the regular population. So after you had that. Happen in Woodstock, Illinois, how did that affect things from there on out? Well? Remember I still wasn't thinking Sasquatch until I had that dream later in Alaska in about twenty twelve. So once once I had that aha moment in twenty twelve, I reevaluated that incident in my life. And one thing that's very interesting is whatever I saw was fascinated with the people. It was literally lying on the people. You know, it's typical Sasquatch behavior as we know it nowadays, but there there definitely seems to be some sort of correlation or some sort of interaction between some Sasquatch and some humans.

32:19 They seem to be very interested in us, and that's fascinating. You would think they'd want nothing to do with us. But but yet, as you said, you hear so many accounts where you know, I look up, there's one staring at me through my bedroom window or the trailer window. It's just it's over and over and over again. It's it's very, very weird. We are definitely some form of entertainment. And sometimes they're even watching TV with the person, which is is even funnier. Stories too.

32:59 Yeah, that's hilarious you have in your info that you had passed on to me before this interview. You've also had some things occur in western Massachusetts as well. Yes, I live on a small farm. We've only got about nine acres of cleared land, but it's on bigger acreage of about three hundred acres of deep woodland which is surrounded by woodland. I'm near some wildlife management areas. I have a trail. It's a public trail on nature conservancy land I can walk to from where I live.

33:44 It is in many ways ideal habitat. We've got turkeys and deer, a few moose, the other smaller creatures you would expect are here. But we also have a farm and we have feedbags sitting around. We've got farm animals. We've got the missus here. I think she's a magnet personally. I'm not sure she wants to hear that, but she spends a lot of time outdoors and singing to herself, talking to herself. She likes to explore the woods. She goes out into the woods for hours. I am essentially a farm hand, which is new for me. I do carpentry, but I'm also taking here of the animals here. We've got cows and chickens, and one of the things I do is I do the nine time check of all the animals and boys. Sometimes in the summer, when I'm doing that check, I do not feel alone. I feel like the air is filled with electricity. I feel the eyes on me. I usually talk out loud, just you know, along the lines of I'm just checking the animals. Don't need any trouble. So that's been interesting. I recall here

35:18 on the farm several odd things. When I first came here, I came down from Alaska. I was trying to decide if I really wanted to work here and believe it or not, one of the things I wanted to find was sasquatch sign because I was so into it already and I did a little exploration and I wouldn't know it. I found what looks like an old lean to structure on this land, and that helped decide me to come down here. I've also found three feedbags in the woods, way away from where we keep the feedbags. They were empty. One of them only had a tiny little hole in it, but it had no feet inside of it. I think that would have been carried full into the woods but then left there and crewers got into it. But it's very hard to explain how those feedbags got to where I found them. That happens to be across a small river from an elementary school. The elementary school is also surrounded by woods, and you can hear the kids even where I'm living playing at recess. I also found in that same spot, very close to the elementary school a children's toy. This is out in the woods, so I can't explain how that. It was a little soft squeeze ball thing. I can't explain how that ended up out in the woods near the empty feedbags, but I have my suspicions. I also mentioned the trail nearby. It goes

36:51 up to a lookout tower. It is only I think it's one point two miles one way the trail. But I started noticing last summer the twigs along the way had been broken. And I noticed because I would notice the wilted leaves hanging off these broken twigs along the trail, and I started paying attention to it, and I was seeing more and more of them, and by the way, Jeremiah was also finding small trees broken over the trail, particularly after the ATVs that weren't supposed to be using the trail had used the trail. You would find small trees broken over the trail and sometimes bigger ones, so that's been interesting. The twig breaks, I ended up counting one hundred and thirty of them that followed this classic just a break like if you took a pencil in one hand and tried to break it. That's kind of how these twigs looked. But this is on living mostly beech trees, and I actually have this kind of mind that likes to analyze things. I started measuring how high off the ground they were, how thick the brakes are, what side of the trail they were on, and it occurred to me, one hundred and thirty twig breaks. That's enough to crunch numbers, and I did. In the end, I ended up coming up with average height above ground,

38:25 average diameter outside of the trail, et cetera. And I graft some things, and I thought I found a signal for two different heights of individuals. Some of these toiget brakes were pretty low, but some were very high. Some were Many of them were over seven feet off the ground, and that seemed a bit high for just some casual hiker. So I ended up I actually wrote a paper on it, and I sent you a copy of that paper, and feel free to use any screen shots out of there. But I promised the Really Commonoid Inquiry magazine and doctor Jeff Mildrim that they have for first rite of publication for the larger paper. Along that trail or near that trail.

39:18 I've also found some larger trees broken. There's also a pinned arch over that trail, which nobody notices. I've never had anybody say hey, I noticed that too. I have to point it out to them. But it's a maple tree that has been bent over the trail, and it's living top pinned with another I think it's a dead fall tree, but I cannot explain how that happened naturally because it was it is still a living tree. The tree is still growing and the arch is about twelve feet tall over the trail, perfectly going over the trail.

39:59 I like to think of it as you're welcome to hike on this trail. This trail is where the humans are supposed to go, and I normally stick to the trail, but I sometimes have left it. I also, if I can bore you with a little bit more about this trail, Jeremiah, I started, and I know this is controversial, but I started a little gifting station up at the very top at the end of this trail, at the base of the tower. What I found up there is somebody had cut a fallen tree, just cut it up and do like two foot sections or even a couple shorter rounds, and it made a rough pile. I took one of the shorter rounds and I put it on top of this pile, very precariously, you know, balanced on top of a rounded log section. And then I found a flat rock, like an almost dinner plate size. I stuck it on top of this log around and then a friend of mine that came up with me one of these times also found a rock on the ground and set it on top of the dinner plate rock, and I would leave on this apples, occasionally chocolate maybe like peanuts, raisins, that kind of thing. I ended up hiking this trail maybe twenty times last summer because I was doing the research at the same time, and I would leave things

41:30 up there, and then on the way down I played the harmonica a little bit, which I'm sure just annoyed everybody. So I checked that gifting station as late as November, and I was generally finding the apples gone. Occasionally I find a chewed on apple just laying on the ground, but usually the apples were gone entirely by chewed on. I mean it looked like a squirrel I had chewed on it or something of that nature. But usually the apples would just be gone. There'd be no sign of them, no core, no nothing. So eventually the snows melted enough, I went up there again. I think it was early February or late January. We're not a high snow area, but we do get some snow and I was a little surprised to find that a tree I think it was about six inches thick where it was broken, which was about ten feet off the ground. A tree had been a living tree, had been broken thirty feet away from my gifting station. Now it's the top of a ridge, but it was very well protected from the westerly winds by conifer trees. But this was a deciduous tree. It was broken and it was still connected at that break

43:04 ten feet off the ground, but it was laying perfectly centered over the top of my gifting station, this precarious gifting station of a log round on top of log rounds and a flat rock on top, etc. It was laying right over the top. I have pictures from above and it's like, mathematically exactly going through the center of that dinner plate rock. It felt like a message to me. I cannot imagine how a blowdown tree would have slammed into that gifting station and left everything standing. But it's just perfectly balanced on top of my gifting station. And I know that's hard to believe, but this is what I have within sight of where I'm sitting now, you know, like half a mile away, but see the ridge line.

44:03 That is so cool. It's one of those things where if you're new to the subject and you hear something like that, you're gonna be like, oh wow. But if you really dig into it like you are, I mean, you see these certain areas, they'll have weird patterns and you know, things left and a certain pattern at gifting stations, and just it just really makes you think, like, Okay, what is going on here? There's some some weird intelligence in play here, I think, and. You know what, I think the message is, Ceremiah. I think it's stop feeding the kids. After thinking about it, that's my conclusion that it's funny. I've given the kids stuff and they don't like it. What's with this human given food to our kids? Uh? I think that's what it is' So it makes me reevaluate what what I should be doing out in the woods.

45:12 You you brought up an interesting point earlier too, And I noticed this when I was reading through the copy of your paper that you sent over, because I realized that I'm what was the term The term is a pin I'm I'm blanking on the term pindars. Yeah, thank you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So when I was in Oakridge, Oregon this last July, we were up in a research area which is way out in the woods, and I was walking in the woods around this meadow and actually found it was wild.

45:57 Do it up. I might have pictures I can share with you, but it was it was like a group of I want to say, maybe five to six saplings that were alive, and they had all been they had all been bent over in such a way to almost make like a shelter you could be under, but they were kept down by these like really heavy logs that had almost been placed on the other edge of the arch right, And I was like, whoa, what is this? And I just did not make sense. So it's cool to hear that, you know someone else has seen something similar to that as well.

46:41 Oh yeah, those are so hard to explain away as wind fall. Windfall does not catch the top of the tree and end up on the ground ten feet away, like maybe in your instance that it just doesn't make sense. You had to have something pulling the branches down or the saplings down and using the other arm to pin them. It's inexplicable. It doesn't really make sense that a human wants the trouble to do that. Do you find that in this area in western Massachusetts? I always find it interesting, you know, if I'm talking to people and They're like, yeah, my neighbors are are having similar having things happen that are weird too. Have you ever talked to your neighbors in this area to see if they've been experiencing weird things as well or notice things of the ordinary.

47:40 Oh, yes, yeah, I have. I'm at the base of a wooded hillside they call them mountains here to be their hills. Near the top of the hill. I've got a friend. She is in a large hell soldiers. What is it? Four adults there, five adults, four kids, and they're having odd stuff gone. My friend herself, she looked out through a window to see an upright moving reddish form moved very rapidly across the yard. You know, she was a long waist from a window. She didn't have much time, She didn't have really an arc, a big arc of visibility. She just something went by the window very quickly. But she also reports that a neighbor told her he had a daylight siding and he said to her, I cannot unsee what I saw, and that was a sasquatch.

48:49 She's also had weird paranormal things happen, like in one case she was keeping quail. The quail were in a latched cage. They came home to find of the four quail, three of the quail were now a pile of neatly sucked clean bones laying in a neat pile on the ground by the cages, and the cage doors were still latched, so thatuntain was bizarre. It's hard to explain that a predator pulling that off, and.

49:30 Unless the predator could unlatch, take them out and latch it back right yep, yep. And then take the time to eat them right there, have the little snack right there. Yeah, that they're an interesting family. The two women actually feel they're getting some not really mine speak, but but impressions, telepathic impressions from from things in the woods. So they're certainly quite confident they've got neighbors in the woods.

50:15 That's incredible, and these are neighbors. It sounds like they're not really into the Bigfoot subject, but they're just aware of I mean, they've had things they've seen. You know, I met this woman. She was a waitress at the local coffee shop or a little restaurant, and I tend to when I go out, I wear like, you know, a sasquatch hat, or Sasquatch something, so people can tell what I'm into because I get a lot more more reports that way. Just casual, but you know, I love talking about it, so I wear my heart on my sleeve, so to speak. I can't. I can't.

51:00 When she saw that, she was very interested, and she said, you've got to talk to my mom because she's really interested in sasquatch. I think they had a minor interest before they ran into me. And then we kind of beg each other on and I told them about the things I've been finding, and we've gone out on that trail I mentioned with her whole family, four kids and her husband taking a look at stuff. So it's just my little community here. That's really cool. It's always nice when you can find people like that where you can at least have a conversation and it's not just like, oh, yeah, did you find bigfoot yet? You know which it's whatever, but you get it.

51:53 Yeah. I get plenty of that too. I've got a couple more old things right from the farm here. If you yeah, absolutely, I'm going to make I need to make it, Okay, I got the note down, go ahead, Okay. Yeah, sorry. If I'm interrupting, so we hear a lot about interest in children. There was one night here last summer where the client's ten year old she might be eleven year old daughter at that point, was here and she wanted to do a little bonfire, and she actually, we have a large parking area here between the two homes.

52:34 I live a one home. They live in the large converted barn. So I got invited out and she did this little bonfire just right in the middle of the gravel parking area. And I had already been having the feeling like every time I go out, something's watching me, so I'm aware when I'm outside at night in particular. So we're this little bonfire and it's three adults and this eleven year old girl, and we're talking, and we're chatting. We're just squatted down, sitting around this bonfire on the gravel, and I could tell me and the husband client, we're hearing some sounds that sound like rocks being tapped together from behind a rock wall and drop off behind us to about one hundred and fifty feet away. And that happened, I don't know, half dozen times during that little bonfire, and both of us would turn around and we'd be looking over our shoulders and we couldn't what was making the noise, but it was classic rock clacking. But it was just very quiet, but just loud enough to get our attention and get us to turn around to look.

53:57 So that was interesting to me. We have an electric wire fence, just a single strand around our cow pasture where we have six cows. The cows almost never seem nervous, except there was one time when I was wearing my brown duck. It was anyhow brown duck hooded jacket, and I had the hood up because it was windy or something, and I also had brown duck overalls on, so I'm looking all brown. I come around the corn patch up on these cows kind of a little bit suddenly, and they all ran, and I thought that was odd. You know, I work around these cows all the time. But then I thought about having the hood up and how maybe I look like something else. I'm not sure, but that was just odd. But the really odd thing I found is I walked the line periodically, and it seems it's like there's branches thrown across this electric line more than there should be, just from treefall. So I walk it fairly often. And one of these times, when I was walking it, not only did I find large branches over the top of the line, but I found one section where the line was lifted up and put up in the branches of a snapling about five feet off the ground.

55:24 It was up in the air, and I just don't see how that would have happened naturally. And it also happened to be where there was through the leaf litter and the like. There seemed to be a path that was going right through where this was lifted up. Another time, right before a big event when we had lots of people, I saw a single, small barefoot track in the dust where people were going between this event and the houses, and I chalked it up off up to one of the kids going barefoot, And then I realized later I never there was only like two kids that size here, and I never saw them with their shoes off, And I'm just kicking myself that it didn't stop and look at that track. I think what was happening was there was a smaller one around here last summer, and somebody got tired of their kid getting zapped and lifted up the line there so it could move back and forth without running into that electric wire. The other thing that happened, Jeremiah was to me the most unsettling of all. We have fruit trees here, and you can tell where this is going. Immediately. Amongst those fruit trees, we had a plum and a couple of peaches, and the owners here

56:55 were very excited about, in particular the plum tree and the peaches. The plum tree, I am embarrassed to admit, is less than twenty feet from the door I use over and over again of where I'm living. One morning i leave the homes. You know, all these fruits were just ripening. We're just I had actually picked a lot of peaches for myself. The owners hadn't gotten to it yet. I noticed the fruit trees are empty of fruit. We're talking fruit up to twelve feet high off the ground. Not only were the trees empty of fruit, but some of them had ripened and fallen to the ground. The half rotten fruit on the ground was gone. It was like somebody had done like a crime scene. They had cleaned up everything. And we're talking. I don't know how many pounds of fruit we're talking. It could have been one hundred pounds off of each of the peach trees.

58:01 Less on the plumb tree, maybe twenty twenty five pounds. But it's all. It was all just gone. There weren't like half eaten fruits. The trees weren't ripped apart from like what a bear would have done. Branches were not broken, there weren't claw marks on the trunks. The trees were just fine. They were just denuded of fruit. But here's another odd thing. Except one peach tree, I make my rounds and I would take a half rotten peach or two off the tree and throw them in with the chickens. And I had one particular part of this peach tree where I would do this over and over again. Somebody had Well, there was a wedge of peaches left where I was taking peaches to feed the chickens on that one tree. But the rest of the tree, like two hundred and eighty degrees of that tree, if you take a line up, the trunk was completely stripped, but this little wedge had been left with some pizzas in it for me to keep feed of the chickens.

59:12 Yeah, that's weird. That's like something was watching the whole time. Absolutely something. Yeah, and waiting for the fruit and decided now tonight. But also aware of what you were doing, and like, let's be nice. Let's let's leave the human a little bit for his thing too. Man, Yeah, the us. Right, right exactly. Also, the weird thing about all this is how and I'm guessing this is a case let me know if I'm wrong, but how you just randomly chose this property to live in that ended up being like a pretty active area in western Massachusetts. That is, that's pretty cool.

1:00:05 It's interesting. The whole story of how I got here is odd too, But it's getting to be a little obscure for a podcast. But yes, it's interesting, and it was. One of my goals was to get to a place with activity, and it worked. I'd say, you got it. Do you have any future goals with interaction for this property that you're at right now? So my approach is to consider that I'm dealing with an uncontacted tribe that generally does not want to be contacted, and I'm sure they have good reason for that. One of my goals is to be as unobnoxious as I can be and maybe be a little approachable. I get the impression that the kids are a little more likely to interact with humans. I think a lot of what we hear about is actually just kids, and I'm saying that.

1:01:30 You know, a seven foot male is generally a kid. You know, maybe the equivalent of a twelve thirteen year old, but it's a kid, and they screw up, or sometimes they're just extra curious. I think generally the adults don't want anything to do with us. They probably a lot of them have been shot at, and they're offended by how we deal with them when we do see them. So a lot of what I'm doing is preparing myself psychologically for not freaking out if I do have a sighting here, and being open to that siding, and even sometimes just like trying to let the woods know, hey, I'm not here to cause any trouble. If you want to be seen, I'd love to see you. I won't take pictures, and I don't I take pictures of the stuff I find, but I probably wouldn't take a picture even if I thought of it, and I probably wouldn't think of it if I saw a sas squatch. I don't think i'd do it. I think it's an invasion of privacy and it should just wait for permission. Sure, So I guess that's part of my goal. I think I will follow up that paper by my tracking what I find this summer as well. If I start finding enough quantifiable material, I'll keep track of it. I would.

1:03:04 It frustrates me no end that I haven't found any good tracks here, So I'm gonna keep looking for tracks and Scott and you know, I look for hair too when I think I'm in a spot where here maybe should be showing up, so I'll look for trace evidence. The tracks would be great. The tracks I found in Alaska were partially melted out. I could only suspect they were sasquatched by the stride and the shape. But I would love to find a track I couldn't deny that'd be good. Norman, you got some really exciting things going on there, and I think you are definitely going towards this the right way with how you want to prepare for siting.

1:03:56 I think a lot of people don't think about that that I'm just going to go out and have something happen. Now. I kind of need to be prepared. For this, and I think that's very admirable what you're doing, because I haven't had one yet myself either, but it is saying where you definitely need to be prepared for it. So it'd be interesting to see, you know, what comes next from this in the future. But you know, it's just been real fun chatting with you today and we will definitely have to keep in touch to see if things continue to happen here in the future. Yeah, I'll let you know if more does occur to me.

1:04:37 I'll tip you off one thing if you want to do Jeremiah, I sent you a link to a presentation about stick structures my son and I have found in Colorado. Okay, yep, not so far from that. Pike's Peak area that You've got a podcast on the fourteenth, two days ago that I got to listen. That sounds fascinating, But if you want, you can include a link to that. It's just on Google Drive anybody who wants to look at that presentation. But I found that we found amazing structures out there that just boggled my mind in this one area, and I know of small town monsters. They had a crew out there only about five miles away, and they also found some interesting structures in the woods.

1:05:27 So well, that's fantastic that Yeah, yeah, feel free. Thank you for sharing that with my listeners. I know a lot of people will definitely. I mean, it's fascinating. I've looked through that presentation myself and I was like, there's some wild stuff in here. So definitely check that out. Guys. It will be in the show notes or description, depending how you are listening to this. But thank you Norm for coming on the show. I do have one more question for you, But thank you so much for coming on today. Oh you're welcome, my pleasure. It's been a great talk. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Bigfoot Society. Norman's experiences leave us with more questions than answers, but that's what makes these accounts so captivating. If you've enjoyed this conversation, please hit the subscribe button and share it with a friend who loves a good mystery. If you or someone you know has had a Bigfoot encounter, I'd love to hear from you, so email me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com and let's talk and don't forget Sasquatch Summerfest is coming up July eleventh through the twelfth in Oakridge, Oregon. Big For Society Listeners can grab a two day pass for the price of one day with code BFS at checkout. Tickets are available at www Dot Sasquatch Summerfest dot com and thanks again for being part of the Bigfoot Society. Until next time, keep your eyes open, trust your gut, and never stop asking what else might be out there, And see you in the woods.