Years of Bigfoot Activity in Clackamas County!

0:00 Welcome to Big for Society. If you have Bigfoot activity to report from the same areas discussed in this episode, please reach out to me directly after this episode. And if you'd like to be on the podcast to discuss a personal Bigfoot encounter, please reach out to me directly at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. Do you wish there was more Big for Society to listen to you every week? Well there is now. If you become a supporting member over at Patreon, you get a special members only episode every single week on Wednesdays, and sometimes even more episodes. Head on over to patreon dot com. Forward slash the big for Society, and now let's get on with the show. All right, Bigfoot Society. I've got the privilege of talking to Brandon today. Brandon is an individual that reached out to me through email. He's a listener and reached out with some interesting things that he would like to share from out there in the Pacific Northwest.

0:53 I'll let him fill in the details with that for Brandon. How's it going today, man, Hi, Jeremiah, good, how are you doing. We're doing pretty good. Starting to get a little chilly out here in Iowa, but I think we're going to make it through. So I've been looking forward to chatting to you tonight. So yeah, man, go ahead and feel free to take us back to when this all started for you, these these big footwar counters that you had over the years. Yeah. So when I was a kid, my brother and I would go camping. It seems like we went on a camping trip every. Summer with our dad, and so we would. Go up and we would usually camp around Mount Rainier and one of the summers. And this was back in nineteen eighty nine to nineteen ninety. I was I believe I was ten, almost eleven. It was, you know, either July or August, and we were up on a mountain.

1:54 It's called Burley Mountain and it's close to the closest town would be Randall, Washington, so not far from you know, like Packwood, and you go up that Highway twelve which runs up the Mount Rainier on the west side, so you got a pretty good view from up there. So we went up there and. It was a dry campground up there, called a pull Patch, and it wasn't you know, there wasn't really anything I don't think up there to really bring in too many people, you know, where it was located, and so we were up about I think around I would say, close to four thousand feet. But I remember going up there and you know, just a little side thing like before. When we first got there, my brother and I, you know, I was, you know, us being kids.

2:45 He was a little bit younger than me. We were out exploring and checking out around the camp and we found these big boulders piles and there was like three different mounds of them, and then there was it kind of funneled down in the centers of them, and it was all to the ground. So we just thought it was kind of cool. So we were. Playing around that, which I didn't you know, really think much of it then. And then we had four nights of camping up there, and it was actually my dad, so my brother and I and then he had a girlfriend with a couple of kids of going. To girl so it was all of us. So we had one of those you know, really common green canvas kind of coal intins, you know, back in the eighties, and so it wasn't you know, like we have now, but you know, it was big enough for us.

3:36 So the first night nobody was there. The second day, nobody had came in. It was just us in the campground. There's probably about eight to ten spots there at the most, I'd say it's pretty small. And I remember going. We had a fire going, and I was the first one for some reason. Was I was tired, I guess before anybody else. But anyway, so I went to bed. So this second night we were there and I'm laying and I ended up waking up on my back and I'm on the far right side of the tent, and we had the screen open so you could see out the top window part on the tent. Well, as soon as I opened my eyes, I looked up and I saw this thing standing there and it was staring down into the tent right really within you know, probably a foot really close to the tent, you know, maybe two at the most, a foot or two. It was really close to the tent and it was looking downward and it was just staring. And I started looking at it, and it was I could see a little bit of light still from the fire, and it was everybody had went to bed, and it looked like it looked resembled a man in the face, but it had this long hair.

5:03 But I noticed on the top of its head, which I thought was strange. Confusing too, was it had ears that were sticking up and there were somewhat rounded on the sides of the head towards the top now, But when I started looking at the face kind of analyzing down it, it. Looked it resembled a very hairy man. And it had i would say, about three inch hair, dark dark eyes, and it just was very It didn't make any expression at all. It was just staring and it never even blinked the whole time I was looking at it. But as I was looking down, I could see the thick hair going down his neck and I could see about I would say, just the upper part of the chest is about as far as I could see.

6:00 And it was standing there, you know, and I'm thinking it's standing there like a man, and I really thought it was a man, but I'm like, those ears are weird, and I'm like, it's just way too hairy. I've never seen a man look that hairy, you know, So, you know, a kid's perspective, I'm thinking, I don't know what it is, and so I you know, I was. Laying there and thinking, am I dreaming? Is this real? Am I dreaming, and so I remember just hearing the wind and the crickets, and I knew it kind of really just settled in that I'm awake, you know, I am really looking at this thing, and I didn't know what to do, and so I kind of, I don't know, I got really scared. I remember and rolling over and you know, thinking I was right up against the side of the tent, basically right at the edge of the tent, and I'm like, there's nothing to protect me. And so I rolled over towards my brother that's in the sleep by next to me, and I look over and I see everybody sleeping, and I just shut my eyes and then I'm out and I woke up, I know, the next morning, and I didn't say nothing to anybody about it.

7:29 I didn't tell my dad, and I remember going out and looking and we had a picnic table and there was some little marks on some bread that was left out, you know, probably from mice, could be you know, and but I didn't see anything mess with. But I didn't. I was confused on what I saw. I'm like, I could see the ears kind of I'm thinking bear with that, but it looked way too of a man looking with all the hair and the way it was straight up and down. Like a person would be standing. And I was like, well, I don't think a bear would be doing that, you know, But the face was more to me. It reminded me of kind of a typical caveman look would look.

8:13 Like in the face. And the other thing was I mean, it was maybe a little taller than the tent, but it wasn't that tall, so it wasn't like super tall, you know, obvious like you hear some encounters. So I didn't know. I was just like, I don't know what it is, but it really scared me, and I knew I saw something. And so I remember on the third night, we had somebody come in towards the evening and camped, and then after the fourth night we had left and started heading down the mountain, and then I said something to my dad and I said, I saw something, and I told him I don't know what it was, but I did mention maybe it could have been, you know, as a big foot, which you know, I didn't. I knew a little bit of, you know, growing up in this you know, the Northwest, but I told him and he kind of just like was thinking, oh, maybe I'm just you know, imagining or dreaming or something. I said, no, I really did see something. So I kept repeating it a few times, and he goes, oh, okay, well I believe you that you saw something, and so leaving then, you know, and heading back. I didn't know, you know, I kept going over in my head.

9:40 I'm not knowing what. Exactly I saw, but I was leaning towards what I thought it was. Probably But and I'm thinking to myself, like, well, you know, back then, it wasn't so mainstream, so I didn't know, like I didn't really have the internet, you know, to jump on and me and so you too, I guess. But so I just kind of But I did have some. Relatives that I found out not too long after that that had encounters. One of them this stands out as my my grandma on my mom's side. She's she's passed now, but she back in the seventies, she said to her and my grandpa were road hunting up in Aberdeen, Washington area, and she said they were driving along and there was a meadow. And every time she tell the story, you know, because she'd tell her over the years to us grandkids, and that this hairy, long human wearied with long arms was swaying its arms and walking through this opening of this in this meadow.

10:49 But when she saw. It, she she wouldn't she didn't even know what she couldn't even say anything. So they're driving along, well, they passed it and got back to the trees, and she goes, I think I saw and then he turned or backed up and it was no longer in the field there. But they had talked to the locals in the area, she had said, and the loggers that they were in the area and said, yes, we do see that one. You know, we've seen it before at different times. So that story growing up. And then then an uncle of mine, I actually had one of the bigfoot things down the road happened with him.

11:31 He would tell a. Story that he had seen one walking over It was over west and over again over and let me see it's what area was. It's towards Hillsboro, but just south of there. It's I mean, think of the name. But anyway, he said that when he was in his early twenties he had seen one around dusk and it was walking through a graveyard and it kind of a kind of creeped him out, and he that story over the years. But I, you know, I didn't know. Like I'm thinking to myself, is there just like so many a few of these out here, you know, Like I didn't understand as a kid, and when I got older, well, let me see, really, actually now I want to put this in there because this is something that I didn't pay attention.

12:25 To a lot. So when I was. This was probably a year or two before my encounter happened. We actually moved to a town over near Malala or again it's Colton, just a small little town kind of between Esticada and Malala. And so we moved on almost five acres and it was a base of the Cascade Range there and it's actually the mountains called Goat Mountain. And so we moved into this old house and and it's weird was things would happen there and it really didn't add up to anything. But one of the things I think early on was my mom would say that she would hear the back door a handle, a wiggle, and also rocks, little rocks would come up and hit the back side of their house. Once we put an addition on, so it was after that, so probably a couple of years of living in it could be a little longer. But anyway, the back of the house. But my stepdad would work graveyard at a bakery, and she said it always happened when he was gone, so these things would happen, you know. She didn't know what it was, but she knew that she could hear the handle moving on the door and then the rocks hitting the back.

13:51 I think they had a slighter, you know, glass window door there in the back. And I would say about ninety five when we were there, these two bigfoot guys came up and would ask questions, come on and talk to us, and they were telling us, you know that these these bigfoot come. On our property. And there there we Basically what it was is we had on the right or the left side of our property from the roadside was all blm land going down and kind of around, and there's two other little properties that were one of them in the middle was smaller and the other one on the other side of us on the right. There those three clusters of little properties and then it was all bllm land around us, except on the other side there was a big acreage somebody had owned.

14:48 But it's weird. Was I remember one incident that happened there that I thought was odd and I didn't know what was going on, but I was. I was about fifteen sixteen on the and I remember I was walking up we had this driveway down. We had a trailer at the bottom, kind of towards the bottom of the property. But anyways, walking up the road and there's pretty heavy, thick forest with a we had a fence along the blm side of our land. Big so society will be right back after these messages.

15:37 So on the towards the road and be on our left. And I was walking up it towards the road and it was fall and I remember hearing hearing what sounded like leaves crunching. Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch. Like that, and I was like, and it was just across from me on the other side. It's really dark and that forrest and I would stop and it stopped and I start walking again, and it would start back up. As soon as I stopped, it would I hear crunch stop, you know. So it did that a few times, and I just thought something was there watching me, and in my head, not really knowing a whole lot. Then I'm thinking, maybe it's a cougar, you know. And then I'm finding out, you know, cougar's typically will stalk you, you know, from behind on the corner, you know, kittie corner. So I'm like, and then I've heard, you know, then I kind of put together these other reports I've heard of where they were being paste right by, you know, like just like that.

16:43 And so I had wondered about that, looking back, if if there was one over there that was heading up the property. Now, I do know one of the things that really stood out that I remember around that period is when those two guys come up there, those guys that were investigators and Bigfoot. One of them, well one of them actually he was a cook at my school for my grade school, so he was younger probably I don't know, probably ten years younger than the other guy, which he was. He had lived over and esticated actually, But anyway, they would come up. They came up a few times. But one of the trips up, they took us across the street, my stepdad and I and they said, look at this, and they showed us these trees they were about eight feet up and the branches there was probably five or six of them, and they were like somebody had took a hand and cranked them around and around.

17:45 They were all twisted up, and they said that they thought, you know what they said, they thought the bigfoots were up there doing it and they would show each other strength, is you know what they said. Now, my stepdad was totally did not believe in anything like that, which I still don't think he does. But you know, we had no explanation for that. It's like, I know, no grown man could ever do with those branches. They were thick enough. There's no way anybody could have cranked them like that and twisted them. And they also said that they had rocks thrown at their vehicle when they left, they said the last time they were there. And so, you know, I didn't really know what to think, you know, so I kind of feel like, you know, I did come across some footprints one time when I was about twelve.

18:47 We were playing outside in the snow. It was in the snow, so it wasn't it wasn't probably real, real fresh, but it did resemble footprints and we were just being kids. We were playing hiding I'll seek out in the snow and coming across this like trackway of tracks, but it didn't look like our feet. It looked more like bare feet. But I just kind of shrugged it off and went back to doing what we were doing. But I do know I did have one, and I don't know what. This was, but I remember, you know, because we had obviously possibly bear. I know we had a cougar because I saw one, a pretty good sized cougar one time.

19:28 I was standing out in the driveway and my uncle and I everyone. Uncle was like, we happened to see this. I don't know if somebody saw if he saw it and told me to come out, but it was just going up the road. But it was a good sized cougar. And so but I know my mom had seen a bear cub down the road too one time, so we knew there was bear around. But I did have one winter evening I was outside and you know, I was I was thinking I was a on fifteen sixteen. I had a little puppy and it was. Just after dark, and I was just taking the puppy outside, you know, do his thing, and come back in. Well I heard this growl, and it was a pretty deep growl, and it came from across the road from our house in the trees, and I don't know what that was.

20:23 I thought bear bear, you know, I'm thinking to myself, and I ran and I went in the house right away, and I told my step down. I was like, well, I just heard. This real deep growl outside, and he's like, oh, it's probably a neighbor dog. But I knew it wasn't no dog, you know, I knew it had to be a bear. But I think it was a pretty big growl. I mean, it kind of reminded me, but maybe not quite to that level. But when and I'm sure you've seen it, but finding bigfoot starts up the beginning, I mean, but not to quite that level, i'd say, but it resembled that. But you know, I know that my brother and I we really we built some forts outside. And there was a time I remember in the back of the property.

21:11 We had a three wheeler and I was cutting down trying to make a trail and just feeling like I'm being watched, you know, didn't see anything, but I really felt like I was being watched that day, and so I just kind of I didn't know exactly, you know, about but later on in life, I would say, you know, after that era of that time, you know, it really got me as I got really curious. And I saw a show on TV and this was probably around two thousand and eight or nine, two thousand and eight, and it said if you had a big foot sighting, you know that you can contact and it was a BFRO you know. So at the end of this show and I was like, huh, I was like, you know, I wouldn't mind saying something about this to someone and see if they got any thing that I could learn or feedback on it, you know, and what they think. So I did that and this guy had called me up that lived up in a limp, well actually he lived in Spanaway, Washington is where he was from. But anyway, he calls me up and you know, we get to talk.

22:28 Any wants to know more detail in the face what I saw, and then he starts giving me some information that I didn't know about at the time, you know, like he was letting me know about how you know, at that time, I never heard about him going down on flours, you know, running around like that that they they if you get eyes on him, you may you know, may not want to look away or anything, because they very well could be gone really really quickly, and so made me kind of think, wow, you know, I wouldn't mind seeing one again or having some accounter. So I contacted my dad and he lived up you know, still around the Mount Rainier area, and we we had decided because I had talked to this guy and I was like, well, I'd like to go up in the Cascade Range. You think we might be able to you know, have an encounter.

23:18 And he said, yeah, yeah, they're definitely up there, you know, just where, but they're up there. And so so we plan a camping trip and this and I would say this was in let me see two thousand eight nine, right around there, because it was right before it was actually right before Finding Bigfoot came out the first season started. And so we went up. We went up there, and we ended up doing was we thought, we'll find a place where hopefully nobody's at, you know, or maybe where it dead ends up up. So what I did was I researched the Malaw Corridor and on bfro back in that that time there was thirty some encounters, and I'd been in the Malala River, you know, in the summer a little bit but I didn't never really gone up the river, and it goes up quite a ways, you know, up that river, and and so we decided, okay, we'll go up there and we'll find a spot, hopefully you know, by ourselves, and we'll see what happens. So we so we ended up going up we did was we went up for We ended up going up for I believe. Yeah, it was one night, so was about the middle of the week.

24:40 It was actually August tenty twenty second. I believe. Of that year. We went up there, and so we had found a spot. We went way up past the river. Actually we veered off to the left. We found some roads that went up and actually I mean probably as like a grow flers, we're probably ten miles. We ended up north of Detroit Lake. So it was out there, and so we I actually at the time had three boys that and they they wanted to go, so I went ahead, and you know, and the thing was, it's like one of the things this got investigator told me is like, you know, and this is not that I can one hundred percent anything's guaranteed, you know, but he's like, they're very curious, and they're very curious they'll come around, you know, like you can't just go out.

25:41 And look for them. Usually normally want them to come to you, so I thought, and they're curious of especially you know, curious of little ones. They're more comfortable with, you know, those little kids, you know, being around or female more than males. And so anyway, the boys wanted to go, so my dad was we had he had a conversion van, and so we went up in the middle of the week and we got up to the spot and it was almost dark. It was dusk at the time. We found the spot a. Dead end and we could tell, you know, nobody could go buy us.

26:22 I buy us veered off by itself and ended at the end of this road. So we'd get out, and my boys were were, you know, kind of scared. You know, they're pretty pretty young. I guess, and they were like, oh, it's getting dark, you know, kind of carrying on a little bit. And we hunted down. We got a fire going and we had I think we had marshmallows and stuff, you know, and the kids enjoyed it, and and then we thought maybe we'll do a little you know, to see what happens after the boys. Three boys go to bed. So we got them to bed.

27:05 You know, in the van, there's a pretty well used game trail. The veers off to the right of camp. This kind of goes out a ways. My dad decides he's going to go over that way and head down at a little bit, and I was going to walk just walk up the road just a little bit from our place. Right, so there's a hill that drops down I would say one hundred and fifty feet and there's a tree line. Well, I decide, well, I'm just gonna do I'm going to try a little call, you know, just not too loud. But I actually had. Bought a megaphone, but I'm like, I'm not going to bring that out with the kids sleeping, you know. So I do kind of a scream, kind of down a little bit. And soon as I did that, Jeremi, I hear something just cruising up the hill and it's breaking everything in his path. I could hear all this cracking and it's coming straight up to me, and I knew when I heard this. I was like, I know that whatever this is, it's big because it's breaking everything in his path and it comes straight up stops, you know, right in the tree line there, and I'm I'm.

28:31 Standing there just thinking, Okay, what should I do? You know, So I do some clapping, put my hands out, you know, I say hi. You know, I'm just gestures trying to see if I get anything. Well, I did start getting this chipmunk squawking up in the tree, and it would go over and over and over like taddling that this thing is right there, you know, down below. And so I probably have that for about I don't know, probably five minutes or less. And then my dad comes walking over to me and he tells me, he goes, I was over there and I heard this thump like stomp sound that hit the ground hard, and then he decided to go ahead and head back the camp. And so he tells me that, and I tell him, well, I just heard something and it's big, and it came right up to the end of this tree line here and there, and it's.

29:34 There big for society will be right back after these messages. It's got to be there. And so. He's got a n vision, you know, just a regular first generation. But there is an opening between the trees a little bit, and so we're kind of taking turns trying to look and you know.

30:15 And then then mug was. Still squawking off and on, and then my dad he turns to me and he goes, I just got hit with with a little like rock, like a pubble sized rock. And the pant leg he had pants on, like like like you know, the Army Khaki one. So they were you know, they weren't real close to his legs. But he said he felt it. And then he goes, but not once twice and he said, and I got hit twice in the same spot, and so and I thought, WHOA. So I thought, well, I just felt like if you know, at that point, I know, my heart has tuk to pick up a little bit, you know, and I'm thinking to myself, wow, well if they're if this is real and this is really what's going on, you know, I just found it kind of hard to believe. I mean, just going up there and then happening like that. But I thought, this is this is probably real, you know, most likely, you know, because I knew it wasn't a human and I knew it wasn't probably a normal animal at that point, you know. So we were just listening and you know, looking back and forth, we never saw anything with the night vision go between the trees. But I do remember then probably after i'd say fifteen.

31:44 Minutes, I hear some movement, and it's just barely, you know. You know, I don't think my dad could make it out, you know, me being what late twenties at the time, but you know, I could, really I could hear something, but it was barely. It was moving from from the right side to the left towards that other noise that came up there. So it's almost and I could hear it just enough to know that was moving through there. And then it just after about I would say thirty minutes, the chimunk quit. It went quiet, and so we went back to camp.

32:25 And nothing else happened that night. Well, I know, the next morning, I was excited to go and get down in that forest, you know, and see if there's any signs of what happened last night. And so there were some dry river beds going up. It was pretty gnarly thick brush. There was Devil's clubs up and down these dry river beds that were going down. So it was really hard to get through, you know, and I had some tall boots and I had trouble getting through it. But I knew that. There was no chance that it was a person, you know, going through that at night, you know, because it was I would say when it happened. It was between ten thirteen and eleven o'clock when when the activity started happening that night. But I but I did, I did notice and then the ground was dry and it was for needles and everything down. But I did make out a footprint that really looked like a footprint just enough that it was It looked like a footprint with ches going to the left, like something was moving from the right to the left through there.

33:36 And so I did end up. I don't know where it happened, but I did have a picture with I remember what I used for size comparison, but I do remember remember measuring it, and it was I think it was fourteen inch. The size that I measured the one that really stood out to be very probable. And so that was really the I mean, I wish I could have seen more of what it broke. I really didn't. Make out too much, and I know I was kind of feeling like a new be out doing this, but I know whatever that was that came up there that night had to have been I mean it sounded like they would described an elephant. I mean it sounded huge, and it was just moving at a good pace, you know, up that up to the top.

34:26 Now. So we had one night. There and the next day we end up staying for part of the day. I know, I did find this branch. It was right along that game trail and a tree that went up. And right along that trail there was a branch that was about I would say or a tree that went up and it was bent over and it was bent over all the way down and it was I would say, a good three inch thick and it was down ripped down at that and I just thought, wow, that's if that's I didn't we didn't see it being natural, you know, and it was that would take a lot to do that. And so we had one night there and I had to actually go back to work. So my dad, I think he went and hung out with my brother that lived local, and then we ended up meeting back the following week. So we went back up and I think at that point it was just me and him. No, naturally, the boys were there too again because they wanted to go because they Yeah, so they ended up going too, and we found two other locations that were right near that spot we were at, so we thought we would try one of those. So one of them went down because hearing this thing coming up from the valley, so I thought, well, why don't we get down in the valley a little bit more where

35:57 maybe it came from, we were thinking. So we went down this road I would say about gosh, I would say, it's three quarters of a mile down this gravel road that veered off from the main one and down and it looped around and then it ended down there and there was an old like logging area. They had logging road that went up and it's overgrown, and so we camped out there, and you know, it was really really quiet, I remember, and one of the nights I think it was let me think, I think we went up for actually, how many nights was it. I think it was three nights.

36:42 I'd say three to four nights. It was at least three nights. And I remember one of those nights we it was getting late and it was really quiet, nothing going on. We had a fire going, the boys were sleeping, you know, in the van. So we thought, you know, maybe we'll just go up the road a little bit up that road and. Oh, you know, I got it. One more thing I should add before this. So that day before this, so we had walked up that old road that dad end up there with trees down and stuff. So my dad was like, you know, I'm getting this feeling like we're being watched. And I told him, I said, yeah, you know, I actually feel that too, And so we had this weird feeling of being watched. Well, so everything went quiet, you know, that that evening until we decided about I would say.

37:47 Two thirty quarter three. Somewhere around there. We walked down the road there was a little creek, so we did some calls and you know, and then we didn't hear anything come back, no noises, So we wandered back to the camp. Well, we sat down at the fire. So we're just sitting there, you know, probably ten minutes. Well actually it wasn't even much time at all, because we sat down and we're just sitting there and it's probably a few minutes and then we hear this whistle from the woods and it's it's right now about three am. And this whistle was an attention whistle, you know, right to the tee and and I'm like, that was not a bird, you know, and he goes, no, And we knew, you know, the whistle sound, of course what it was, and so and I'd say it was you know, I kind of pointed what direction I thought it was in the woods, and he thought it was actually a different one. But I was pretty sure what direction it was from. So we get up and you know, it gets our attention, right, So we're looking over there, I can't see anything. I actually had a video recorder going, which I think I actually have that whistle. It was on a little sony handicam, which you know, I couldn't ever get it, but I think if when I hooked it up the speakers, I might be able to get it.

39:18 But anyway, but so it got our attention. Well, I I knew, we knew that that was not vocals from a from a bird, and it wasn't you know, we didn't we did not think it was a person up there, right because it was a dead end. It was the middle of the night, and so that was weird. And then so we went back. We you know, we we thought, wow, that was that was something to hear, and then you know, things ended up dying down after that, and then you know, we. We would went to bed. I remember calling up that investigator guy because I told him we were going to go camping. I go, hey, so I want to tell you what happened, And so I told him about the first incident.

40:00 I told you about it. I told him about the whistle and he goes, well, you know, it's exactly what it was. It was trying to get your attention over there. He said, more than likely there was another wind around your camp closer and I said, well, yeah, the boys were sleeping in the van. I wanted to go back up there to the area, but I really wasn't wanting to go up there by myself. My dad living you know, two and a half three hours away, you know, he would you know, wouldn't be able to always get back to go. So I know, some time went by and I had some friends from a church I was going to and we went on this trip with them. I was to a cabin at a lake actually, and I was telling them, hey, you know, you know, finding Bigfoot was on, and they kind of washed a little bit of it, and I was telling them, well, I had these things happen up here, and it seems like there's there.

41:00 Around it seems in this area. We actually went up there, I would say a couple of years, so. About two thousand. If I can remember exact day twenty eleven, But it was like in June. It was early enough there was still snow up in the area that we would normally. Go to, so we really were anty to get up there. So we ended up going up past the river and then we veered off at a place that it's called table Rock, and there's a table rock trail on this mountain and there's actually a rooster Rock trail on the other side. So we went up there and we took a rite and we went out to the end where a dead end, and we decided maybe it was a good place to do vocals and camp, so we wanted to go ahead and just do a camping trip there and check it out.

41:56 So we ended up camping. There, and I remember I was doing calls out into the valley down into the river, you know corridor, well around dusk. I mean, I thought this was a little odd, but you know, we didn't really know what to think of it too much. So there was a dark. Like military chopper that was coming low just over the road over the corridor, just going slow up the river area, and then it would turn around and go back slow, and we were like, I wonder what's going on. Maybe maybe they're looking for somebody. So I don't know what that was about. So I think it at least went up once slow and then back down through and I thought, we thought that was a little odd. And then so later on that night, I had a voice recorder going, I can't and you know, I look back and you know how you think you wish you would have done things differently. Now, this voice recorder was set on sensitivity mode.

43:11 So anyway, it was going. And all of a sudden, my dad here's at first He's like, do you hear that? And I'm like, it was a really sharp pitched scream and it was like up over that mountain, somewhere on top or just on the other side, but it was it was long, like it would start low, go up, and then it would drop down. So, I mean, the closest to me would be like the Ohio, how is what it sounded? How it sounded like? Now it went off five times. We were like, that sounds like very sharp pitched, like it's either female because we didn't know what.

43:58 Else would be. It was just it was so loud and sharp, and you know, and I had stopped doing calls for a little while, but and it just started up like that. And it was two fifteen in the morning is when it started. And so it went off five times. We both agreed it was either female or it sounded like maybe it was teenage, you know, And so we had a trail cam. After that it went quiet, so we thought, well, maybe we'll maybe we'll get something, you know, who knows. So we went ahead and you know, went to bed and next morning and we all we got was a bird, you know, flying in and.

44:39 That was it. Big. So society will be right back after these messages. But that was the first time we had well really the only time I've heard the vocals like that. You know. My recorder did not pick up the sound. It wasn't close enough for it to pick it up. The other thing I thought was a little interesting was on the other side of that mountain, so we went over there.

45:23 In a different time. This was I think it might have been because of what happened there. We thought there's a actually there's a trail, a horse trail that runs up to the middle of that mountain and you can kind of see it before you head up from off from the river, and it goes for I don't remember if it's like eighteen miles. It goes and goes. So I'm wondering if possibly that Bigfoot was along there somewhere, possibly, you know, But I had never went up that. I've never been up to that. But we did decide the next time around that hey, let's go camping on the other side of this mountain on the Rooster Rocks road that goes up the Rooster Rock Trail. So we ended up going. We didn't it wasn't too long. It was I think we ended up going kind of late fall, but it was November and so we kind of thought, oh, there'll be a little bit of snow, so we could, you know, check for tracks like that, you know, And so we ended up I remember seeing some wildlife, some deer when we went up the road. We decided we kind of went as far as we could go up that road, and then we parked it and camped, and I know, one of the days my dad was in the gold panting, so we decided, hey, let's you know, it's be enjoyed camping, you know, doing the doing different outdoors activities. So we decided, well, we'll go down to this creek right up here up the road and we'll we'll, we'll, we'll do some goal panting. So we started gold panting

46:57 and I looked down in the sand and I see this really detailed footprint, and it was a good sized footprint. The heel, I would say, the heel part was missing, but the rest of it looked almost perfect, and which I don't know if it's my mom actually may have that somewhere, if she still has the old camera for it. But I saw this footprint, I took a picture, and I couldn't believe what we saw. Well, there was leaves down, and so I started to really check out kind of the trail that leads down to the creek from the road, and I could make out a large imprints.

47:45 And I made out some small footprints. So it seemed to me like there was a large one and a small one that had gone down to that creek. I would have never seen that, you know, in the leaves, if it wasn't really paying attention to see, you know, that that was That was kind of what we both agreed on. It looked like some big ones and some smaller footprints, and so that was kind of cool to see, especially that one in the sand. So the next time I went up there and I tried to hit it. Really, I went back in August, so I tried to hit it around the twentieth around that timeframe from before. Those guys that I had we went to a cabin with that went to our church in the area. They were kind of optimistic and curious and open minded enough that they were like, well, you know, we've seen that finy bigfoot show a little bit. We'd like to check it out. So I take I take them.

48:45 I ride up with one of the guys and his he had a cheap wrangler. We went up their head. Of the other two guys, they were going to meet up with us later. So you know, I took them right up to the spot where we had one come up the tree line and I showed him kind of like where it happened, and I said, he was, you know not, I mean he was. He decided just to hang out around the jeep. You know, this was like fine, cool, And I said, I'm gonna walk down that game trail. This up ahead and check it out and walk down their ways and just you know, go down there and see if I see anything different from before. And so I walked down there and he's just hanging out. I think he was a smoker, you know, he was anyway, he was doing his hanging out by the rig. And so I come back and you know, probably five ten minutes back to him, and he goes, well, you're up on the hill. And I said, no, I was down over here, just you know, veered off. I went aways that way, and he goes, you weren't up on the hill.

49:49 And because there was some rocks that go up kind of behind the camp and then just up the roads a little bit up on the hill, I kind of thought, well, let's walk up, walk up the road a little bit, kind of showed me where it was, and he goes, I said, do you smell that? And there was a little bit of a smell that wasn't strong, but it was enough that there was an indication. There was something up there, you know, And so. I decided, well, maybe a'll just kind of start climbing up there and check it out. So I went up the hill the rock and I started going halfway up and then the smell ended going away later on, so the other guys show up. We actually decided to go down.

50:35 There's three spots. There's one the low one we had went at with the whistle right there was there's one in between these two. It's up on a hill and he got a nice kind of overview to go down to the valley. We went down to the. Low spot and it was a Saturday night. You know, it just worked out, you know, that time which for all of us to go. And so we drove down there. And the reason, I guess I don't really think about it because it was nothing happened at all. There's nothing to talk about really, you know. But they were like, hey, you know what, you know, it's quiet, nothing happened, but let's come back next weekend. And they're like, yeah, maybe we'll hit the spot up above in the middle. So so like, okay, So we met back up at that middle spot. Now, one of the guys was a pretty big hunter and two of the other guys had guns with them. One of them had a wounded rabbit and coyote and all these calls. Well, they started using it at night off in the valley.

51:35 We did our calls. So so we had fun, you know, and just kind of we tried different things. Well, nothing was really going on. We were sitting down. We were just all sitting down around where the fire would have been, and we hear this sound and it's a rocketing landing. It sounded like a rock and a thump noise landing behind this tree that kind of went down the slope of this hill. And so we're like, I was like, did did you guys hear that? And go yeah, something like it was right behind this tree over here, and so they get up. I get up and we hear rocks, what sounds like rocks hitting up on the gravel right by our camp. But the road goes up, and so me and this other guy we decide, hey, let's throw some more rocks down the hill.

52:29 You know, we couldn't see nothing. That was two fifteen in the morning. One of the guys, which I didn't know he was going to do this and he did, is he had a handgun right before this happened. I forgot I should put this in because this is interesting to me. It's like he decides a fire off a couple of shots, and I'm like, I wouldn't personally just fire off a couple of shots like that. Anyway, he did, and then shortly after that, within minutes these this sounded like rocks coming in and so we were grabbed rocks throwing them down the hill and then we'd hear more hitting up on the on the gravel road, and then we'd toss them more down and then it was just back and forth for probably I would say like six times.

53:17 It was we were, you know, having fun with it. Nobody was. It wasn't anything scary or nothing, you know, but we're like, oh, we're, you know, potentially playing having a game with these bigfoots on the other side of us. Here's a rock coming in. We could tell it came from the other side because on the other side of these guys, a couple of guys. Well, then another rock comes in and lands right between the one guy that I started throwing rocks with between his shoes and he's like that rock just landed there, you know, and it was probably about gulf side, I'd say, rock, you know, landed between and so they were they were having fun. And one of the guys, you know, I'm not I haven't had permission for names, so I'm not, you know, but he he is a firefighter. Well he said he had a tent. So I just decided, you know, I'll just the other two guys had their vehicles.

54:14 One had a Chevy. Truck and then the other one you know, had his wrangler, so they decided to sleep in their vehicles. And I was like, okay. So anyway, this guy, he being a firefighter, he used to I guess wearing ear plugs and stuff, you know, being away from home. We went to bed, We quieted down. I guess I it quieted down enough with the rocks that we decided to go to bed. So everything got kind of quiet, you know, kept us awake till I would say around three, maybe three thirty somewhere around there before we went to actually went to bed, but I know it was after three. So anyway, we we were so I'm leaning in there and I I hear this sound outside and and so so I kind of elbow a little bit and say, hey, hey, do you hear that?

55:07 And he's not moving or anything. It's and I'm thinking, all right, So anyway, I finally wake him up and I'm like you hear that? And he goes what And. It's like you got, he goes, you got your pludged in. So anyway, I open up the door and I didn't see anything at all, And but I had left my voice recorder up the road on the gravel, and I covered it up, and so. I guess fast forward. Nothing else happened that night, and none of us woke up. Well the next morning, I go out and I get the recorder up the road and it's I start hearing on the recorder, like I hear what sounds like only I could think of is maybe feet, but it's like a sh like scooting or shifting on the gravel. And you know, this was on from about i'd say three point thirty to a quarter to five somewhere around there, you know that. So it did that a couple of times, whatever it was, and then you could hear wood hitting wood.

56:14 It sounded like somewhere probably down in the forest. And the next trip up, which the next one it sounds out trip for me is I decide, you know, I decide by myself, which I kind of regretted this, but I decided to go up and I'm going to spend the night up in that spot. And this was the same time of year August, so i'd say this was twenty twelve. I know it was shortly after so like that summer, let me think it was definitely there in that same time period. It was August around the twentieth, and I go up. So I go up to this area again. And I actually decided to go up by myself.

56:58 I had I had bought in a jeep, brain a new one, and and I just was anty to get up there. So I went up there and I brought I actually brought a shotgun with me, and I'm like, Okay, I'm just gonna go up here and see what happens. So I get situated and I'm not really even set up. I think I just kind of, you know, it's antie to get up there. I really didn't set up very well, and I just planned on actually just sleeping in in the vehicle. So I pull in, you know, and just park. I get out listen, and it's getting around dusk, and it just it's just after dark. And so I would say around ten, and I hear something on one side of the camp. It's actually the upper side of the camp, not the one that veers down the hill, and I hear something running through the forest and it's doing these deep snorts, and it's running and it would turn around, it would run through back through the forest, and it would turn at the end and run back through again, and it kept snorting, and I got pretty scared, and so I decided, you know what, this is what I wanted.

58:26 But I just thought, you know what, I've had enough. I was like, this is too much. I mean this for me, It's like the sound of it. It sounded aggressive, it sounded loud to snorting, and the way it kept running back to the forest, and I'm thinking, what is this exactly? And I didn't know what it was, but I knew it was bigger than a deer, and the way it was doing that, so I started to yell. Well, it didn't phase it at all. It kept on running and snorting, so it wasn't leaving. Well, so I had that I had that shotgun in my hands and and I I remember getting really scared and I just thought to myself, this thing's not leaving. And I saw some people about three miles down in the lake, and I was up there all by myself, and there's no phone service, so I'm thinking, I don't know if I should have done.

59:27 I knew, I mean I didn't. I knew. I had let you know, others know where I was going to be. So it wasn't like I went up there and didn't. See anything, but I I felt like okay, And I had my recorder going actually, and it picked up everything, you know, the sounds running that, the snorting. You picked up the snorting, and so I decided, I'm jumping in my deep. Big for society will be right back after these messages.

1:00:13 So I get it into my jeep and I turned it on and I decide to turn it around because I had the opposite way of getting out of there, and so I had to turn it around. And I'm sitting in there and I could still hear it doing his thing, and then I just tried to calm down, calm down. And then I waited about ten minutes, shut the engine down, and it was quiet, and I'm like, okay, you're okay, nothing's happened. You're good. And then I decided to go ahead and kick back my seat and just stay the night like I wanted to do. But I kind of felt like, you know, if that was one there, it didn't want me there.

1:01:07 That's what I felt like but and I don't know if it was because I was by myself and because you know, I've heard if you're by yourself, things could more likely be maybe a little bit more aggressive at times. So I don't know, but I just I ended up staying, didn't see anything, but I definitely whatever it was, it was making its presence there. Those guys I took up there too, they they were they were pretty much leaning towards that. They thought that that's what was happening, that there was big foots around us. But we never heard anything.

1:01:48 We never heard any movement, which is so to me interesting how these things can be as big as it can be and you can't you can't hear them moving around or anything. And so. Okay, so the next the next thing. I wanted to talk about was my amazing wife, Rancy, which she goes we actually have a blended family and just it's great, you know. Anyway, So we ended up we both love to go outdoors, hiking, camping, doing all that kinds of stuff, and so a couple summers ago we actually did some research and we were wanting to find a new place to go camping, and so I had found that they had a recent sighting online actually over in love and Worth Watchington area, and so the person kind of described about where it was, and so it was like, hey, you know, we're wanting to do a camping trip. So we ended up driving over there and we actually only had one night, which I wish we would have had more, but so we ended up driving there and getting there about it was after two pm, I think around the twenty third of August twenty twenty two.

1:03:13 There was that recent sighting. So we decided there was a lake right near the town. Well, we ended up going on this. It was blm Land or something. There was an area where you could camp, you know, just pick us bought and camp across from the lake across this road. So we went in there and we found a spot and so we just set up our chairs and so we were just kind of hanging out and we didn't set up anything yet and I and I hear a noise down in the trees kind of downward from where we're at, and so I'm like, what was that? And so I decided to go ahead and take some pictures.

1:03:56 And as soon as I took a series of pictures out there along that area, I looked, and right away I'm like, tell my wife, I'm like, what is that? And so she saw what I saw. So I actually. Panned across with my video, which it was a little distance out, you know, so I wish it would have been better than it looks, but I could tell there was a figure and you could see it when I panned across with the video too. That was still standing out there, and I couldn't see it with the naked eye, but I could see it with the camera. I was like, well, I see something there. So we got that and I thought it was interesting. So and then, like I said, it was no longer there, and so we were like, okay, cool, this is this is exciting. So it's like we just got here and maybe saw something. So we go ahead and set up our camp, and then we go for a walk and down on some of the roads, the gravel roads, and my wife had pointed out some it looked like maybe bare footprints on the edge of the road that had once had water, you know in it.

1:05:10 So they looked a little bit not recent, but it looked like potentially could be feet, you know. And so we kind of roam around and come back to camp later on that evening, we had went to bed. So we had a tent where you can have the whole top open, you know, so we wanted to be able to see everything. And so we're laying in there. And it's I would say between ten thirty and eleven, and we did have I thought was interesting was we started hearing like a tree trunk in front of like towards our feet, the tree, one of the trees. You could hear this scratching. It was this long sh coming down the trees, the tree there. And then on the opposite side of our heads we heard the same thing.

1:06:03 It sounded like something scratching down a tree trunk at the same time, you know, going and I decide, okay, that's that's not normal, you know. So so we're laying there and and but I could make out there was something else. It sounded like there was something else on the right side of us too. It just wasn't making much sound. And so that was interesting kind of a night. I took my wife up one night to that old camping spot where those rocks were thrown and and she, I'm telling you, was a complete non believer. And but she's like to me, it was like the unicorns, you know, like no such thing. She didn't even say a believer.

1:06:53 She's a noher now, I mean, And I know when I took her up there, she woke up one night up at that old camp spot, and she said she felt strongly like something or somebody was watching her, you know, in the night, but. Didn't never see anything. She's completely believes, you know, what happened to me and some of these things that I've told her in the past that have happened, and and then what happened with us, And I know that it just seems like it's very difficult to have a visual you know. But I do know that a lot of things once you I feel like get more educated on the subject on what's going on, you know, a lot of that's going on around out there, that you kind of can put things together more. And so that trip eleven worth, you know, I wish I'd like to haven't been back since, but I wouldn't mind going back and like trying to find those trees and seeing if I could see any marks, you know, up and down those trees. But for there being a recent sighting, you know, i'd say two to three months prior to that.

1:08:01 You know, I thought it might be a spot to check out my dad. You know, as far as my dad, you know, he was not a complete believer, but I know he is a believer now or he's in nowhere actually because of what's happened. But before that, but I know, he told. Me when he was in his twenties, he went hunting and he said that he just got this awful, awful smell and feeling like he's being washed. He never saw anything, but he knew something wasn't right, you know, that feeling. And so I think that he looks back and he realizes, Okay, that's probably what was going on. And that was up up in it's Edonville, Washington, so it's it's close to Mount Rainier. And then I've got kind of family around Morton, LB. Area, which is all kind of around that that west.

1:08:57 You know, side of the from the mountain. My boy, well, there was three at the time, and I know one time and just recently my eighteen year old and seventeen year old talked to me separately about this, but they had told me this at the time. So when they were kids, they saw they think one and it was behind their great grandparents' house, which was just out of a Silverton, Oregon. Now, they were playing in the backyard, and I actually talked to one of them tonight about it, and then last night the other one. So they both, you know, maybe they had a little different perspective, but they were young, and for them to bring it up to me recently over these years and tell me that they all got scared because at the time they told me about it, and I just kind of thought, you know, the kids were out playing, they were playing with their cousins. They probably just think they saw something in the trees. Well, they told me that they saw this bury like a basketball player, you know, tall harry, like part of a body, and one of them said he saw the shoulder area, but it was the one described it as it being like grizzly like I would have to say, like a darker brown, and the other one said more of a dark color. But they both described that they had seen this thing and they couldn't I don't think they got a good look at the face, but they said it was like just

1:10:27 around a tree, and so they all kind of were I don't remember how many of their cousins, but my oldest is he didn't see it. They said that they both seen this thing, and they all took off running and ran in the house. And I remember them coming in the house and saying they had seen something. But I just, you know, I didn't don't really think much of it. But for me, for them telling me now about it all these years later, when they were probably like they're pretty close in age, you know, so five six seven and a half to say right around there, that telling me this that. I think that they must have seen something, you know.

1:11:08 And and anyway, so that happened there, and it was and it was it's kind of the edge of the Cascade Range. Also, they lived up in the hills out of Silverton. So there's actually a little town that's the closest to it. It's Scott's Mills. And and then there's a road that goes up a ways called you know, nobody lives up there family anymore, but it's called Crooked Figure Road, and it goes up along this river. And anyway, it was up there, and so it was it's a ways out and but yeah, so that happened with them. But and so especially those two boys are pretty believers, you know, with you know, at least. I think they tend to believe pretty much everything, especially after what they know. They saw something themselves, but so that happened to them, and that was that had to have been, like I would say, I mean, their youngest brother might have been around.

1:12:15 So it may have been maybe two thousand. Ten to twelve somewhere around there, maybe twelve somewhere right around that time, twenty twelve. But it was probably summer, I'm thinking, but I don't remember exactly when being outside and playing and stuff. But because there is a little altitude up. There, I think it's probably about twenty five hundred feet elevation up there, and about the same where I was living too, up in Colton as a kid. And you know, I did hear a couple of things that were interesting up there where I lived when I was a kid, Like I heard that there was a full size horse that was killed in a field, probably about a mile down from our house. And I heard maybe a cougar.

1:13:04 But I'm like, you know, I don't know, but you know, here I was a teenager, early teen at the most, but I heard about that. But I do know when I looked up on the BFRs, there was some bowhunters up there that had some encounters up on Goat Mountain that was around you know, the mid nineties is when when that's when those reports were in. Now. The only other thing I could think. Of was, I know one night I was with my mom and we were heading home and we were about to i'd say half a mile just passed where that horse field was actually just kind of dips down and there's a big hill that goes up well you dip down, and we were actually looking for a couple of my uncles were they were fern picking actually at the time, and it was around dusk, and we go to hit this hill and there's like a fence and there's a light pole, and we go up the hill and we get up to the house and my mom, I was with her, you know, in a passenger seat, so she's like, you know, I saw someone, but it looked I don't think.

1:14:15 I just had a feeling not to go back like looking for them. And she said, but it was where it was standing, had to been like super tall where it was standing by that pole. So she may have seen one that night, but I didn't see anything, you know, But she did mention that after when we got back. I had talked to well me see a couple of different times and on the phone to Cliff Berrickman, and you know, I actually met him in a conference over in Kennewick. But I had talked to him and he told me that the cook I was talking about. He knew who the guy was, that there was the cook at my grade school. And he said he actually and back then in the mid nineties, he said that. And I remember this because the guy said it was he said he had twenty two encounters and that was back in the mid nineties.

1:15:10 Big for society. Who will be right back after these messages? And so Cliff knew about this guy and he said, you know, so you know, it was about gosh, probably five years ago, no longer than that. Actually, when I had talked to him in person about him. Anyway, he said he wanted to talk to the guy, you know, while he's still around and get his get an interview from him. And here's some of his encounters. And I don't know if he ever did, but I told him. I was like, you know, because I, you know, told him where I was at, and you know, he put it together and the other guy was saying Cliff too, that was with him. They investigated with this other guy.

1:16:01 But but Cliff wanted to talk to him and get some of his encounters. But the other guy, now, he had one encounter, and surprise my stepdad was he actually was a little open to his story because he had he lived in Estakada, and he said he was camping in a group and they had all these tents and he said in the middle of the night that their tents were lifted and tossed with them in them, and they said they got they were spooped, you know, to death. They got out the next morning and there was muddy, big footprints around their camp. So that's kind of his you know, basically his story of why he became into what he was doing. But but yeah, and he was a pretty easygoing guy.

1:16:53 But so I think it was easier for that guy for my stepdad to listen to him. But the other guy is like, well some encounters, you know, but who knows, I don't know. But yeah, So anyway, so I knew that there was things going on, but I didn't really see anything as a kid. And obviously my brother and I we were never harmed. If they were around but when you looked later on in life and put things together kind of realize that to me, it was more than likely that they were coming around in a property. And I know my. Uncle, one of the guys, the ones that Fern picked, he was living down in the trailer that was down at the bottom of our property. And he said he remembered, you know, because he was he had seen when he said, right, it was over west in Oregon there and anyway, he said that he didn't know what it was, but he said he'd hear the morning hours, still dark, he would hear a bird going off, and he just thought it was not a bird, you know.

1:17:58 Maybe he just I don't know. If he thought it was off, you know, but he just didn't add it up to being a bird and being still dark in the morning. But I know we had a lot of coyotes as a kid in the back of our property pretty frequently at night. You know. The only other thing I thought, which it could be the coyotes itself. It is like when we first moved up there, right away we took over. I think it was like an owner of contract you know, for the place. And anyway, the people that lived there had chickens and a rooster and they didn't have bens in or nothing. And within i'd say two to three weeks, they were just disappearing one after another. And the last one to go was the rooster. You know, he was around and then he didn't make it. So I don't know if it was the coyotes or what, you know, but they disappeared and it wasn't you know, just gradually disappeared over i'd say two.

1:18:57 Or three weeks, you know time. So that was kind of interesting. But but yeah, the other thing I thought was I wanted to bring up because I thought it was interesting. Okay, So we had a neighbor that was, you know, he wasn't. The best neighbor. Let's put that way on a couple actually really, but one of them at least my stepdad didn't get along with and very well. But one night we had a freezer on our porch and it was open, you know, anybody could access right well, he's my stepdad says that the neighbors robbed us. That I don't know.

1:19:38 I'm picturing him seeing somebody running down the road with some food, and later on I'm thinking to myself in nighttime, did he get a really good, you know view of this guy or who he thought it was, or was it something else, you know that came in and helped himself and the freezer. So I thought that was a little interesting because you know, it's just who I don't know for sure, but I just find it odd. Why would the neighbor come over and I don't know, grab food out of the freezer. But so that happened. There's trying to think of anything else that happened up there on our property. The only other thing I could think of, and this is, if anything, this is kind of embarrassing put it this way, but I'll see it in an easy going away.

1:20:28 We had a well issue. We had. We had a hand dug well and it was eighty foot doug right, so the end of the summer, by September, it would pretty much be empty. It just didn't have enough water to last us. So we end up putting a new well in well. Why we were doing that, we had no facilities. So here I decided I got to go to the bathrooms. I decided to go over to the dark forest and get away. You know, have some privacy, So I'd go over there, and it's around dusk. I mean, isn't great, you know, really, but you have to go right anyway. So I go over there. And and I'm, you know, waiting, and all of a sudden, I hear all these all this footsteps running and coming up from down the slope in this forest. And I don't know if it's elk running you're running or what, but I hear all this ruckuses running up the hill multiple, you know, like i'd say, a whole group or whatever, and it's running well, and I got this this feeling inside like you have to go now, you know, just as instinct. I have to get out of here, you know.

1:21:44 So I go up and then I just start be lighting it through as fast as I could, through the adge of that forest back onto our property. And but I just I don't know what it was or and I thought later on like maybe it could have been. This is my feelings later on life, that maybe it was deer out possibly, but they were running at high speed, so a group of them, and it could have been chased, is. What I was leaning towards. Maybe was going on. But I don't know. All I knew is you know, you got that that flight kicked in and I just I just being lined out of that forest, and you know, I remember getting scraped up, but I didn't care.

1:22:29 I just had to get out of there, you know, as quick as I could. And so I didn't. I ain't go over there after that. But but yeah, so that I think was the last thing I remember happening at the house there. So after I had talked to Cliff one of the times, right, I I ended up my co worker that I worked with. I worked with him for about four over fourteen years I worked with him. He knew I was in the big a little bit, so he you know, we would talk off and on. Well, he tells me about a little bit of his hunting trips, and so he would go up the Malala River area. He would go up between Coltonham and Estacada. Well, he goes up and he tells me, I found this footprint and I got the creeps.

1:23:20 And he's a pretty big guy. He's like six ' three i'd say two eighty, you know, and and he he got the creeps when he saw this track and it was going through this muddy. I don't know if it's a muddy like game trail, but it was going across it when he took that footprint. So he tells me he gets a holy Cliff, And Cliff was like, this is great. He goes, this is this is like a perfect you know. To him, it was like he was describing the mud, kind of the lighter mud towards the middle of it. He said, it's like flung back. It's like the way the foot moves. Anyway. He described it like this is very very very likely a real footprint. So I talked to my uncle and I'd say, hey, and this was by the way in reference.

1:24:09 This was twenty seventeen, is when my coworker, and it was November fifth, so when he was up there. So a week later next weekend, I go up and with my uncle and we ended up finding this trackway and it's going into the forest and it's right in that area where he told me. I never found it the exact footprint, but I put my boot, which on nine and a half size boots, and you can see on the one by the log anyway it looks. What was cool was I found a track going into the forest and I measured kind of on this hill mound and then it was kind of a tree testing a and and they had the gate open. Happened to have the gate open, so we went in. But there was some fresh sawdust over the ground too when I walked into the forest, so it looked like these tracks went right over the sawdust, like right after whatever they were done doing.

1:25:18 And and so we found this trackway because my Michael goes, hey, you guys, just you gotta see this. So we were following it. I couldn't jump to each track, you know, and I could we could make it out for a little ways going down, and one of it like broke out the whole tree that was down, you know, like I hit right in the middle. But so I thought that was a good find, and it was interesting one I remember when I measured this, this measurement on this track come out to be the same size as my coworker track he found. So it was the same links. I believe thirteen. Inch you know that. That. My coworker did tell me he had heard screams of there off from a little ways, but he could hear screams, and he said one of the trips up there, he said that he found a deer and he had he had two boys pretty close to my boys ages and he would take them up hunting with them and stuff, but you know, scouting and stuff. But he had found up this road veering off from them Allala River. He had found it was like ripped apart, he said, and he just kind of got this feeling like this is not normal. You know, we need to get out of here.

1:26:31 So they laughed, and so he told me about that. But you know, I just wanted to clarify too, which is no biggie at all, but that county right there, Malala Coleton, that whole areas to get is Clackamus County and Clackamas County is has had a lot. Of sightings probably. I think that as far as I know, the most sightings online is in Clackamus, which you know goes all the way out to Mount Hood, you know, and I think that's what over a million acres Monter National Force. But so it's a big area. But yeah, there's there's been a lot of sightings. I know there was a guy I worked with, another guy he actually hunted. He was hunting grouse and he told me about this and he was going up by it was Estakida and I think he said it was I remember, right, it was the Roar River, Royane River, and he said it was about five pm. I don't remember exact dates on this, it was probably I would say, let me see, say two thousand eleven, twenty ten, anyway somewhere around there. And he said he went up the hill and he heard this, he said, woman, so like a woman screaming and down towards this river, and you know, it was still completely light and everything. But he said it sounded like, you know,

1:28:10 like I mean, somebody with maybe downs and just how it sounded, you know, like it didn't sound right. It's so like a woman's screaming, but it sounded a little bit off, you know, kind of like but it scared him enough that he took off and decided to forget hunting. I think he was hunting, yeah, grouse and left. But he told me about that, and so I never went up into that area. But yeah, he he is, and he's kind of a guy. That's he was, you know, I think around sixty and he seemed like a pretty tough individual person and I thought for him to get rattled that yeah. So I think that's that's about all I can think of Jeremiah that stands out.

1:28:56 Well that's absolutely incredible. I mean we had talked before the interview, and I remember you saying, yeah, I got some I got some other stuff besides the tent thing. I was like, all right, and man, you had some other stuff. So I do have a few comments, you know, like you mentioned the Goat Mountain, Oregon area, Like that area is known for a ton of activity over the years. I mean you can look it up on even like I don't know if you've been to Oregon. Bigfoot dot com is still up and running at the time of this recording. There's a lot of reports on there and then on b F R O. And I've talked to an individual who had some pretty interesting stuff happened in the Silverton area. So that's a pretty that's a pretty interesting area. Too big for society. Will be right back after these messages in the Malala that Malala River area.

1:30:07 I don't know, did you have you heard the interview I did with the gentleman about what happened to him in that area. This is like episode five eighty. The individual named ed you would if you haven't, you really find that interesting. You probably have to. I just found you more recently, but I did listen to one where he's got the rabbit in the cage. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he gets chased by the big foot in the middle of the campsite totally. Yeah, yes, And that's right up there. And you know, when I talked to the cliff too, he told me the first time I talked to him at that conference, he told me back in the nineties, there was some homeless people living up there and they would see me these large dark figures you know, around and yeah, so yeah, that's it's kind of like I didn't really lies living there for so many years around the area. What's a hot area it was for these things, you know. And and then you know, not knowing too when I was a kid about really what was going on up there on at the that Colton house on Goat Mountain where I was living. And but it kind of made sense, especially when my mom said I thought was interesting, was well, like, well, your stepdad was gone those nights when activity things would happen, and it's like so it knew or they knew whatever, most likely that the male alpha was gone, you know.

1:31:36 So interesting, so the individual and I was going to I was going to ask this anyways, the two gentlemen that were bigfoot researchers. You mentioned one of the names was Cliff, not Cliff Barrick, different Cliff who was the guy who was the. You know, I can't. I don't remember his name right off. I don't. I don't know. And I know the guy, the Cliff, the other Cliff. He's actually wrote a book and you probably even have heard of the guy, and I don't. I don't even know, Yes, Cliff.

1:32:16 Who was the one? But you know that. I mean I probably didn't say it great his story, but but basically what happened what I remember him saying it, you know, but so was him and then this guy, which you know he was, He was, like I said, for a cook for years. And and then you know, the other Cliff. He knew who the guy was and he wanted to talk to him. So I don't know if he ever got to. But but yeah, I don't know any of his He just you know, said he had seen him. I know one of the trips up there, my stepdad was cutting wood and you know, sawing some some logs and stuff, and he's like he's like, well he goes you know, have you heard anything or you know, I remember exactly what he said, but basically he goes, oh, you know, I don't think they'd be around here for at all, because I'm you know, making all this noise and cutting and they're like, oh, you know, they could be up in the trees watching you.

1:33:12 You know. He's kind of laughing it. Off and so but it's just like, you know, it's kind of a bug me a little bit because knowing what I saw, you know, and then knowing that things were going on around it, he had no idea, you know that, but he did halfway, like I said, believe that Cliff Olson's story on his encounter, and so he was a little bit but you know, I. Find it funny. Is for me like he my stepdad when he was a kid, he actually was up in the Estacade area and he's told this before, and so he was watching over a logging camp. You know, he was like twelve years old, and I mean, I remember back then, if they care eat a gun. But he did remember hearing screams and he said, and it doesn't sound like there were coyote screams, but you know, he chalks them up to being a coyote. I'm sure, but it sounded like more of like a woman screaming, I believe something like that.

1:34:17 But he didn't believe it was what it probably probably was, you know. But but I think it did cross his mind, you know, because even as a kid, he had heard about it, you know, and but he was a completely unbeliever. And I think he still is. But but it's but yeah, that's you know. But one thing I learned to was going up them all of a river corridor. There's been a lot of missing people up there have heard and I. Would never I mean, I know one time I went up there and I was going to hike Rooster Rock Trail, which is on the other side of the Table Rock Trail, and I started to hike it and I just kind of just sparrow the moment, you know, went up there to do it, and I started hiking it. Just the beginning, I'm like, you know what, I didn't let anybody know.

1:34:59 This isn't good. So I just turned around and left. I'm like, not a good idea. You know, nobody knew where I was going to be, and I was just going to do this hike and come back, and I'm like, nah, not when I knew knew there was more out there than what people most people knew, you know. So but I believe Finding Bigfoot actually went up there on that hill is where they actually went for part of their episode they did, you know, in the beginning in the first. Season, they went up I believe it was the rooster Rock. Side of that hill is where they actually went for part of what they were doing. A friend of mine actually saw the crew that I worked with, and he's like, oh, yeah, I saw the crew up there.

1:35:42 It was wondering what they were doing. You know. But and I do want to point out these these places that are being talked about in the Malala River from what I know of their way out there, and it's like, this is not a thing that you take lightly. You need you need to be prepared, you know. I would hope people listening to this this show are are aware that locations that are talked about is very serious and you need to be prepared, you know, for whether to change. And this is just something that's been in the news lately and unfortunately that's happened. It's things can change, and you need to be prepared for these situations to arise.

1:36:30 And I'm talking about you know, the the two researchers that unfortunately were we're found up in Scamania County after going out on Christmas of this year. But yeah, that was that was unfortunate to hear about that. Jeremiah, Yeah, I heard about it. It was local, being local here, you know about it that happened. My wife and I actually took a track up and it was snowing pretty good, which we don't have a four wheel drive right. Now, and so we got up into some snow. And this was on the twenty fifth. It took a little drive up towards Trout Lake area and we turned around because it was just it was coming down pretty good and we didn't want to get up too far up in there.

1:37:11 But yeah, it's just the weather, that's the thing. Is Like I've learned too, because you know, I've gotten a couple of times up throw on the mountain. One time fortunate that was turned into a blizzard and that was rough. But another time where I was trying to get back to my camp from down in the valley and just the wind really brought the temperature down, and you know, I'm thinking either keep moving or build a fire, you know. So it's it's just I normally what I would do. Was with my dad as I have, we'd have radios so we can keep contact with each other as I'm going down through the forest and he's had some back issues so he can't track too far, so he would usually stay back around camp.

1:37:53 But we tried to play it safe. But I've just learned, even for myself, it's like you're better off to go with somebody else, you know. It's it's so much safer, you know, because something could happen, and when you're by yourself, you know you could be and I know for years up there, the cell service isn't good and you get out there. I mean it's like for me getting out to that spot, it's like from Alala, it's like an hour and a half drive, you know, on these roads get up there, and so it takes time and and you know, I've had a flat tire up there. It was with my dad. Luckily was it nighttime and we actually had to change a tire on a hill with power lines. It was we were driving up the roads and it happened on the way down, so we had to jacket up on a hill.

1:38:39 It's just not a good situation. Yeah, that's wild. Oh my goodness, Yeah, wow, absolutely, it's You've got some incredible accounts that you've been sharing over over our time together. I'm so glad that you you reached out brand and its it's talking to guys like you that it's just you find out some some really cool stuff that's happened over the years. Well, I appreciate it, Jeremy. I appreciate you know, like I said, you kind of just your enthusiasm is kind of you know, because after a while you kind of it's nice to kind of feel a little bit more fire inside about it, you know, like kind of wanting to because it's fun. You know, it's fun to get out there and it's fun to explore, you know, especially if you love the outdoors. And you know, my wife and I we've done quite a lot of camping trips. Some before last we went on about twenty five hikes up because we're living you know, we live over in the Shugol close to Vancouver area, but up the river, the Gorge, the Columbia.

1:39:48 There's lots of place at the hike and I know just down from here. I know Cliff has talked about with recently about there there's a dam down here, and they we have frequent encounters, you know, down at this damn Bonneville. Damn. It's just down about just over thirty minutes from here, you know. And then and it actually one of my bosses actually that I worked with, he told me he's had a couple of encounters one up Mountain Helens and hunting. And then because I heard about it from another coworker, like, hey, the boss has had some interesting things happen. So he's a believer, you know kind of thing, And so I.

1:40:28 Asked him and he said yeah, And then he said the last incident was over in Stevens, Washington, just up the river here, you know, down and he said it was screaming and all the sounds. And he said, he goes, I was done hunting after that. And it's about seven eight years ago. He says, I'm not going hunting again. So, oh my goodness. Yeah, man, pass on my email if you want. I mean, I'd love to talk to him. But that sounds that sounds absolutely wild. I mean, yeah, that would be definitely enough to stop you from hunting. Yeah, And I actually have one more I just thought if I should share with youremiah. Sure, it's interesting. I don't have a lot of detail.

1:41:10 But so so one of my daughters I call you know, daughters, but stepdaughters. But they're great to me. They call me Dad and they so one of them was camping with her husband. This was two summers ago in August, and they have we have we have three grandkids, so she has, you know, two, and so they went up camping up in Gifford Pinchot National Forces, the edge of it where you go up on the. Just on the south west side of Mount Saint Helen. So they went up there to any we've camped at ourselves too and with them. But anyway, they went up there and they actually, gosh, it actually kind of tourned horrible actually a little bit. So they started hearing these owl sounds at night or on their camp. And there was just a camp spot where you just find your own spot, you know, along this river and there's lots of different nice places the camp and as a road that kind of veers off in the main one that goes it wraps.

1:42:11 Up and around to Mount Saint Helens. So anyway, so they they started hearing these owl sounds. But they said that the owl were like, who it was? Just it didn't sound right at the end, like it was off. Something was off. So they were listening to this and then they said that they ended up hearing noises things coming in toward their camp and they said that we were surrounded. What they told you know, me and my wife, they were surrounded by about eight of these things around their camp and so it scared them enough they actually had it. This is not funny, but they actually had an engine problem and we ended up going up there in their truck. It wouldn't start the next day, and I didn't hear about this, well, I don't think I heard about it after. But we just decided, you know what, they need help or they're up there and see what we can do. I'm not really too much of a mechanic, but you know, if they we can do anything to figure out what's going on why their truck won't start. So we went up there and we got it. We couldn't get it going. They came back up. They had left and came back up, but then so to the exact spot. But they were kind of stuck there for a period because of the truck was broke down too. But when they left there, they told us, like what happened, and they said they're pretty

1:43:42 sure that that was what was going on, and it scared them enough they said they're not going camping again. Say we're stilling over camping stuff. So that's what they told us. And her husband was big in the fishing, so, you know, I don't think he would stop fishing. But I think with the kids too, it's more like they were worried more for the kids of anything. You know. They're probably at the time about five and six and a half, you know, And but it really got their attention with that night and made them because I told him, you know, about some of the things that had happened before, but that was the first. Time, you know that, Like you know, I think my daughter's husband, he he would go out a.

1:44:28 Little bit with me, but it was he really they both really felt that that was what happened that night, you know. So it was August first, actually, I believe, because first or second, because I remember before the summer hit, her husband told me he's like, yeah, I really want to go up there at that time again and take somebodies from work and see what happens. What he told me, so over time. Maybe it was I think it was probably more than anything the grandkids, you know, and really scared them. And anyway, and my goodness, it's just you know, sometimes you talk to individuals and like they have something happened early in life, and you know, stuff just fallows them for the rest of their lives. Big for society will be right back after these messages, I mean, and you are kind of putting yourself in the situation as well.

1:45:39 Let's you know, we'll make that clear. You're definitely we're going out to different areas. But you have just had some really intense things happen over the years, Brandon. And it's been a pleasure talking to you about it. Yeah, well it's been you know, it's been great being able to talk to you about this, Yeremiah, And and you know, I just I know, for me, like, yeah, I've I've you know, I've seen bear, I've seen cougar before, you know, And and I think at one time a cougar was I didn't see it, but I'm assuming it was a cougar stocking when I walked back to camp. But I just feel like, yeah, you know, you know, but I guess, yeah, if you put yourself out there in those areas. You know. Yeah, there's times where nothing's happened, and camping is great alone, you know, so it's like getting out there and having fun, enjoying company. You know.

1:46:34 My wife and I really enjoy camping, like I said, and getting out there and it's something we do. And you know, we've gotten to hike up to Mount Mount Rainier around some of the trails up there and and some of the. Beautiful fall colors. This last year we went up there and it was just well, actually went two years in a row up there. I do know. My I have an aunt that worked up. With the up actually at Mount Rainier National Forest up there, and this was probably over ten years ago. She actually told me that there was a report one summer. I don't remember about what summer, but she said there was a report of two different people seeing a white big foot up there, and then another one that was you know, a different color, darker. I'm assuming, but I thought that was interesting. So she did tell me that, and she had worked there. So yeah, so she lives really close to Mount rain Rainier, like you know, just kind of close to Morton as close there's like mineral Morton lb kind of that whole little area where some of my dad's side of the family lives still lives.

1:47:46 But yeah, she told me about that one time. Was that just something that was reported to the rangers. So I believe so it must have been reported to the rangers, I think, you know, and she relaid it. But yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, White, I haven't heard. I don't think I've heard a ton of white bigfoot reports from from that area, but I'll have to look through through my episodes. Notice, too, loven Worth has got reports, you know, throughout the years around the area. And I don't know if you ever been over to that town, but it's a pretty neat town to see too. It's this barbarian, you know town, and it's got all these it's touristic, but it's still neat to see. And then it's pretty beautiful because it's really tucked up, you know, against that the Cascade range you know, on that side, so it's really a beautiful setting where it's at.

1:48:44 I know there's a lot of reports out of the lake. Is it Lake Wanachi is in the same area something like that. Yeah, there's a lot of reports from out there. But yeah, I've only been able to. I've just stuck around Oakridge, part of the lamb At National Forest is pretty much the main area I've been in so far related to big for stuff out there. So we'll see where I get to this this coming year when I get out there again. So, yeah, so did you did you happen to You don't have to tell me too much, but so you had an encounter yourself, right, I haven't actually heard yours, but so was it in southern Oregon where you had?

1:49:25 So there are a few weird things that happened out there in just outside the town of Oakridge. I was out there for the festival Sasquatch Summer Fest, and I was going out with the well Priscilla rosemand Davis organizer. I went out with them and Jason Kenzie's film crew and some other people and to this area where her father had had some really interesting things encounterwise happen. This is like way out in the woods on a service road, and so we're up there. We had let's see, we got at we got there was a roar and then there was a roar slash scream from the woods at us while her dad was playing guitar. That was pretty wild.

1:50:10 There was a sighting in the meadow right next to it, like five hours before that. That actually is the day before, but that was that was the So that was pretty That was pretty wild. That area is just so intense and there's a lot of really intense things that happened in that area. No, in Iowa, I've had stuff happen. I've had you know, tree knocks, stuff get pushed over, I've heard whoops. Stuff like that. But out in Oregon, I haven't had any visuals yet. I haven't had any visuals across the board. But the vocalizations were pretty intense out there, and it's just an area where I definitely want to go back to, hopefully next year see what happens.

1:50:58 So yeah, yeah, that sounds like they're pretty a vocal out out in that area, you know, which I haven't really experienced too much up here, except for that one night. You know that they were that one was vocal. I know just north of where we live. You know, I heard from a lady that's in her eighties now. She actually told me this, but there was a cult. Yeah cult. Little town is just north of Battleground and she had heard that there was I don't even know detail much, but basically a witness that witnessed. Like a female Sasquatch giving birth. I don't know. This lady's pretty like real, She's not the kind of person that it lies.

1:51:43 I don't know who she heard it from, but that is what she told me. So she was a believer. So she believed this person. You know, that's incredible. Hmm wow, I've never heard I don't think I've ever taken a report like that before. That would be how would be something else? My goodness, My uncle Witch, he may listen to this. He probably he was really in the big FOOTBA but his was Yam Hill is where he had his he's liked when he was in his twenties. And but I actually think I seen the graveyard because it's out in the country, you know where it was, and it's kind of on this hill. But no, he told that story for years. And and I didn't know him, Like, well, maybe he's mistaken maybe you know, but I think he must have, you know, it's like but but yeah, so there's there's definitely a lot of areas. And I appreciate you know, all over you're doing, you know, these different interviews, but It's really cool to hear him local too, because it kind of gets you kind of excited in your area, you know, when you hear about some of these other ones that have happened around, you know, so it's kind of got me more and like, I want to talk to you and you know, tell you about you know, even though I feel like the best one I had was my visual, But it was really very scary as a kid, you know, seeing this thing and the stone face looked and you know, and then and then it never blinked, you know, like it was just staring. But the size of it, you know, was pretty short, you know.

1:53:15 And I know when I researched after, I actually looked up the investigator that researched mine, and I found another report up at the same campground, and this was about two thousand one, I believe, and and it was a couple like a boyfriend girlfriend. They had a dog. They went up to the campground there and they woke up in the morning or their dog woke them up. The dog was barking and they heard these loud bipedal stomps going off. So I noticed he investigated that too, So I thought that was pretty cool that this guy you know, didn't tell me about it, but I found it myself up at the same campground.

1:53:58 So that's kind of neat. Was that on BFRO or. Yeah, because he was part of BFR, Yes, I believe so yeah, so yeah, so I found that and I thought, well, you know, it could have been the same family, could have been the same one grown up more, you know, really, but. Yeah, it sounds like it is an encounter, you know, and you were pretty young at that time, but it really affected you for the rest of your life, probably set you on a path where you know, it was just something you're always looking into as well. I would guess, yeah, you know, I think one of the things I think from I feel like I'm sure a lot of other people, it's like I kind of wish somebody else could have seen what I saw, you know, like nobody else was awake. And you know, the only thing I questioned my mind is like if I would have woke my dad up, which I don't, you know, see doing that. He was clear on the other side, but he did have a little pistol underneath his hello.

1:55:03 I remember that, and and you know, I always. Wondered if I would have woke come up. It probably would have been good, and especially if this wasn't a full grown one and there was a mama or daddy out there not far, you know, kind of thing. So, but seeing the fire going too, it's like, you know, it was kind of neat that I could tell the fire were still going in the back. In the back, it was lit up enough that I could make out a pretty good amount of the face, you know, And but it was just just the ears was what kind of threw me off. Really, it was the only thing. And the hair was hairy, but you know, it didn't have it had the flatterface like a human. It was definitely very covered with hair all over except the nose and you know, and the and the forehead. But it just the way the hair went down, all the same thick length it and it was just standing with his arms down that I knew that it was, you know, it was something that wasn't It wasn't a man. You know, I kind of ruled out it wasn't.

1:56:05 It wasn't a human. And it was too real looking. It was scary looking the way it looked, you know, it looked it kind of looked mean in a way. Now I don't know. Obviously you didn't do anything, but it kind of looked not. Real happy by the way. It just looked that no expression. You know, absolutely absolutely wild stuff, Brandon. I feel like I could talk to you for days, but it has been it has been quite quite the conversation tonight. I just want to say thank you for coming on. Keep me in the loop, you know. If stuff can continues to happen, or if you hear other things, feel free to definitely reach out. I'd love to hear from you.

1:56:48 It sounds like you got some good connections out there. Yeah. Well, I really thank you Jeremiah for having me on and being able to talk about this, because I feel like people need to hear about what's going on, you know, and and be careful out there, you know, and be safe, especially when the weather is unpredictable too, you know, like in the mountains, and and I just appreciate your time and thank you very much. Yes, sir, you have you have a good one. Thank you for chatting YouTube. Jomrh just want to take a few minutes to say thank you to you all my listeners for listening to the podcast. Please take a minute to help out the show by subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so you don't miss any notifications, and share the episode on YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us on a podcast, thank you so much, make sure that you're subscribed share the show with a friend. Really, it's all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've had a bigfoot encounter related to the following or know someone who has, please reach out to me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com or pass on my email. Here's the list. Number one encounters from Franklin County, Texas. Number two encounters from the entire state of Iowa. Number three encounters from Oakridge, Oregon

1:58:20 or the surrounding area. Number four any individuals that know about bigfoot being flown off after the Mount Saint Helens eruption. Number five. Individuals that have had a bigfoot encounter while in the military. Number six. Those that have had a bigfoot encounter in the southern New Hampshire or north central Massachusetts area, including Franklin County, Massachusetts. Number seven. Individuals that have had a bigfoot encounter in a Bible camp or boy Scout camp setting. Number eight individuals that have had bigfoot try to enter their house forcibly while they were living inside. Number nine individuals that have actively have a bigfoot living on their property. And lastly, any sightings that are in the Watch National Forest Area of Oklahoma or Arkansas.

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