Dec. 2, 2025

Anthropologist Encounters Sasquatch on Maryland’s Seneca Creek Ridge and Faces Pure Terror

Anthropologist Encounters Sasquatch on Maryland’s Seneca Creek Ridge and Faces Pure Terror
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Season 1

Anthropologist Kenny Joholske joins Bigfoot Society to share two of the most intense and well-documented Sasquatch encountersever recorded. His first experience takes place along Seneca Creek near Black Rock Mill in Maryland, where he comes face-to-face with multiple Bigfoot on a remote ridge line. From chilling nighttime vocalizations, rock-throwing, and circling behavior to an eerie clicking language, Kenny recounts a terrifying night that changed his understanding of Sasquatch forever.



His second encounter unfolds in Harrison, British Columbia, near Sasquatch Provincial Park, where a massive figure is caught on thermal imaging—an event witnessed by multiple people and backed by casted tracks.



In this episode, we explore Kenny’s unique perspective as a trained anthropologist, diving into Sasquatch behavior, social structure, evolutionary theories, and cultural significance across North America. Whether you’re a Bigfoot researcher, outdoor enthusiast, or cryptid fan, this deep-dive into real Bigfoot encounters, field evidence, and scientific interpretation is one you won’t forget.

Resources: 

Contact Kenny:

kjantro69@yahoo.com

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WEBVTT

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You're listening to bigflet Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In

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this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring

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you first hand encounters from people who say they've seen

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something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to

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quiet farms and crowded highways. The stories come from everywhere,

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and each one leaves us with more questions than answers.

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These are the voices of the people who've lived it.

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To settle in, because today you'll hear another account that

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just might change the way you see the woods forever.

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So stay with us, all right, Big for Society. You've

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got the privilege of talking to Kenny Jahulski today. Kenny

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is a trained anthropologist who has had experience with Bigfoot

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in the past. Is a pleasure to have Kenny on

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the show. How's it going today, sir?

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Thank you, Jeremiah, thank you for having me on.

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Absolutely it's going to be I feel from what I

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know so far, is going to be a very interesting conversation.

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Get your viewpoint about things because of your background, but

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Kenny's right into it. What side of the country are

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we starting with in our conversation today?

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We're going to start. My first encounter happened in October

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of twenty fourteen in Maryland along a ridgeline where the

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Seneca River meets or Seneca Creek meets the Monocacy. And

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it was a part of an area known as the

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Black Rock Mill Quarry, which is also a historic property

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and protected wildlife refuge in Maryland. And I'll set you

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off by how this all happened. Several years prior to this,

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I was in this area hiking and noticed some very

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strange structures, tree bends and things that I could not identify.

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And as I began hiking in this area more and

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more and chatting was some indigenous friends about what I

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was seeing. They were recommending that this could be an

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area of where their sasquatch activity. So I was very

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skeptical of this, but I began to continue to hike

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this area. It's a very beautiful area, and on this

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particular evening in October, I decided to go for a

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late afternoon hike and then it turned into sort of

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a night adventure because what ended up happening is I

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did have some basic camping equipment with me, but no tent,

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so I basically had what would be like a bedroll.

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And so in this area where I decided to hike,

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Prior to that, I had seen tracks, I had heard

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howls and whistles. And in one afternoon I was hiking

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in this area and a tree was pushed down from

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a ridgeline above me, down facing me, coming down the ridge,

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and I was able to scoot up the ridge quick

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enough to see that the tree, which was a juvenile,

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a small tree, It wasn't an elderly tree or a

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sick tree that would have fallen on its own accord.

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You could actually see where it had been split, bent

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and deliberately pushed down. Whatever had done that was gone,

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and I saw no footprints. One of the things about

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the Maryland topography and soil in this area is it's

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highly acidic and there's a lot of dense leaf litter.

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So footprints are in general hard to come by, so

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when you do come by them, they stand out. And

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so I had seen an area where there was a

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lot of mud going up this one ridge, and there

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was very distinct footprints that were not human, and there

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were the splaying of the toes and the wists and

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breast of the footprint, and the depth of the footprint

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was not human, and it was going up this ridge

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and I only saw two of them. I had no

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casting material with me, which was my unfortunate error. But

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as time went on, I began to hike more in

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this area and it can get very remote. And this

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afternoon in October where I was there, I come in

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up this trail. I parked my car in the parking

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lot by the forest preserve, and I began walking. And

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as I'm walking up the trail, it begins to ascend

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in elevation. I'm walking up this trail and I'm going

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up to an area where I picked out a ridge

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line where I would be where I would sit for

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the evening. Now to paint a picture of this, the

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ridge line where I'm at is about seventy five to

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eighty feet above the creek and it just falls right out,

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So there's no once you're there in this particular part

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of the ridge, you're up against a wall, so there's

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no leaving the area once you're there, and you could trip,

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you could fall, you could hurt yourself. And I'll explain

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why this becomes significant later in the story. So I'm

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going up the ridgeline and as I'm going up the

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ridge line to my left and to my right, I

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feel like I'm being paced or that there's somebody following me,

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and so I stopped. And as I stopped, it stopped

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or on both left and right side. And as I'm

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climbing up this elevation, there are these the trees become pines,

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so they become like this deciduous forest, and it's very thick.

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The tree, the tree foliage becomes very dense and dark.

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And of course as the as I'm going up this ridge,

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the light is fading, so there is no real there there.

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The light's coming to a dim and so I was

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wanting to get to where I was going to be camping.

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I'm going up the elevation of this and it's ascending

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and going up and ascending. And I quickly turned to

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my left and I hear it like a snap of branches,

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expecting to see a person to So the middle of

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the ridge line, the pathway, there's a ridge above me,

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and then below me is the creek. So I turned

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to my what would be my left, and I look

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up where I'm hearing the snap break, and right in

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front of me is a seven and a half foot

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tall gray sasquatch with a grin of blocked teeth grinning

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at me, and I look up at it. Of course,

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I'm completely shocked. And it then moves to my left

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a little bit, and as I look down, coming up

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from the base of the creek towards me as a

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much larger, darker creature that, of course, the light has faded,

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so this larger creature is completely in profile and shadowed out,

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so I don't see its face, but I do see

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it's a men's structure. It's a men's stature, and it's

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coming up the creek bed towards me. And this thing

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is much more resemblant of the Patterson gimbling creature as

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far as heights and size and wid goes the one

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above me. So the one above me was much more lanky,

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and to me, I'm only making an assumption as to

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what it could be as far as its age, but

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to me, it looked like it was a juvenile. So

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it was like and once I turned to look to

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my left to see where this creature it was, and

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it had moved off behind the bushline, the one below

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me then moved behind the sticker bush line, so I'm

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entering the evening, having seen two of these creatures. I

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go up to the upper ridge where I'm going to

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be camped and put my stuff down. I'm completely white

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and I'm a Type one diabetic. My heart's raising, i

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feel my blood shugars dropping, and I'm like when you

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have a shock like that, you start to shake. And

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so I'm sitting down on the ground and I immediately

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realized that it's now completely dark, and so I'm not

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in any way able to really leave this area without

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My fear would be that I would fall or that

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I would not be able to get back because I

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hiked quite a bit end to get there. So as

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this is going on, I'm setting up my camp, I'm

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drinking water, I'm trying to get myself together. Was thinking

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about completely leaving at that point, but as all this

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is going on, this is where it gets very interesting.

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The way Seneca Creek works. It's like almost like a

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holler or a hollowed area where that you have it's

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surround The creek is surrounded by these ridges which then

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lead to out to the Monocacy River, and so it's

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this was at the wisest point of the Seneca creek,

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so the creek, the way the creek was running, I

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could hear other creatures echoing down, calling and calling to

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each other from up and down the creek, and there

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was an echoing of larger which to me sounded like

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larger individuals. And the sound was like was this giant

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echo going back and forth up and down. And I

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could hear several of these individuals, which to me sounded

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like there was more than the two that I saw,

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and they kept calling back and forth. And what was

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really horrifying was having hyped this area previously, trying to

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figure out where these calls were coming from and what

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part of the creek way it was coming from. To

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my very far left down the ridge where I was,

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where I was at, there was the most blood curdling scream.

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It sounded like a woman being stabbed. And this went on.

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It just froze my blood cold, and I sat there

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and I never got a glimpse of what that was,

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although I could hear it, and throughout the evening, throughout

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the night, this particular sasquatch continued to make that awful

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howling sound, while there were others that were equally that

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were going back and forth and the sound of the

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calls kept getting closer and closer, which is why I

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didn't leave. I stayed where I was at and understand

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while all this is going on, it was happening so quickly.

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The only thing I could explain it as if I

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were being surrounded and being watched. So the elevation of

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where my little ridgeline camp site was, I could hear

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the sounds of the callings getting closer and closer, and

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I sat there and began I was waiting for either

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wanting them to step out of the bush. But the

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rest of the evening, when all this was going on,

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I never They never came out of the woodline. I

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could see eyeshine, and parts of the night they were

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throwing rocks and tossing stone owns at me. But the

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most extraordinary thing two things happened that night that really

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stood out as being the most interesting looking back, One

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of which was throughout the evening, these creatures continued to

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make their presence known vocally or through tossing rocks or screaming.

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But the most amazing thing was they would one of

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them would break from the group and run circles around

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the ridge that I was on. So the ridgeline that

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I was on was right above a smaller ridge below me.

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To think, it was like a bluff with a circle

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on top of a circle. So this thing, one of

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these things would run and begin to run circles around it.

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Now I was above where they were running, so I

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could hear them run but not see them. So this

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went on, and then that would stop, and I would

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sit there, and then another one would do it, would

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do it, and it was going on sporadically all a while.

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The calls from the down the creek up and down continued,

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and then they moved up closer to the ridge where

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I was at, and to me, what it felt like

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was my position was being triangulated. Obviously they knew where

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I was at, and what I felt very much so

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was that I was invading their territory or completely unwelcomed.

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This was unexpected, and so the most disheartening thing about

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my entire experience is I did not have equipment with me.

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I did not have the proper gear with me to

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record this. So this is all anecdotal, still life changing

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and terrifying, but very much an experience that when this

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was going on and throughout I'm trying to give you

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a timeframe. This wasn't like a five minute encounter or

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a twenty minute encounter. This went on for several hours.

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I was unable to leave because if I had gotten

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up with the fear that was going on and with

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these creatures around me, I was afraid if I got

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onto to the pathway, which was very narrow, going to

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go back down the ridge towards where I was parked,

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that I would have fallen and hurt myself. I was

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trapped in this area as all this was going on,

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and so then the second most extraordinary thing happened. And

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from an anthropological perspective, I kept this to myself for

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a very long until several years later when I heard

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an interview with another big clot eye witness on a

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podcast where they described very similar vocalizations. So about midway

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through all of this, two would sounded like two individuals

221
00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:56.840
came down the ridge right next to where I was camp.

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Now it's completely blacked out. I don't have a fire

223
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going it's a cold camp, so I have no fire

224
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going on. There's no lights, so we're in a dense forest.

225
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I'm trying to give you the mental picture of what

226
00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:14.840
this would be like, so these two individuals come down

227
00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:18.840
the ridge near me. I can hear their footsteps and

228
00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:24.320
they stop. But what begins to happen is this, These

229
00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:30.399
two individuals begin to click talk to each other. So

230
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I'm talking like but a much higher rate. And they're

231
00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.200
going back and forth, clicking to each other, back and

232
00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:40.159
forth and a very high rate to speak. Now, what

233
00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:43.200
makes this very significant and in my mind as this

234
00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.360
has happened, I was completely blown away. But what in

235
00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:49.639
my mind when I'm familiar with this is this occurs

236
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:54.080
in human language. So the Hansa people of Africa, the

237
00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:59.399
Sun's people of the Kolhari all use polidal and lateral

238
00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:03.679
clicks between their phonemics, between their and their language. But

239
00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:07.559
human language and even in the Athabaskan native languages they

240
00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.440
will use. You'll hear click sounds and things in between

241
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:15.399
the words, and this occurs in several languages throughout the world.

242
00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:20.240
It's very rare, but it does occur, so that immediately

243
00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:24.519
grew my attention. But so imagine that with no phonemes,

244
00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:27.440
with no works, with no sounds other than the clicking,

245
00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.200
and to me, it was like a language, and they

246
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.080
were going back and forth at a very high rate,

247
00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:36.639
and then it stopped. It completely stopped, and then I

248
00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:39.879
could hear them walking away. This went on for about

249
00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:43.440
five or six minutes. But I sat there listening to this,

250
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:49.399
completely blown away by this, and with an understanding that

251
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:54.399
what I was hearing was not human, and the rate

252
00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:58.519
of speed of the clicking going back and forth between

253
00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:02.639
these two individuals was in such a way that it

254
00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:05.080
was almost as if that in itself was a language.

255
00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:09.919
And I had never ever heard this before. And when

256
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:13.279
this happened, I talked to some friends about it and

257
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.600
was trying to bounce ideas off of my friends about

258
00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:20.399
what exactly could this be. And I kept this to myself.

259
00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:22.840
I never talked when I talked about the sasquatch encounters,

260
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:26.000
the howling, the grunting, the rocks throng, and things like that.

261
00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.320
But it wasn't until several years later I was listening

262
00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:34.240
to another podcast and an individual began to describe this

263
00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:39.320
clicking language going on, and I totally dropped my pen

264
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.480
out of my hand or I was completely blown away

265
00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:44.679
by this because I had never ever heard anyone else

266
00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:48.440
mention this. Now more and more people talk about this,

267
00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:53.399
but back in twenty fourteen. When this was happening, I

268
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.279
had never heard of this part and it completely blew

269
00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.399
me away. And originally I'm thinking, to myself, are these humans?

270
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:01.200
Is somebody just trying to scare me out of here?

271
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:04.119
And it was like, but I knew that wasn't the

272
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.079
case because I had seen these two individuals earlier in

273
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:12.039
the day that completely scared me to death. I was unprepared.

274
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:14.799
I tell people, you want to see a sasquatch, you

275
00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:16.640
want to see, you want to find a sasquatch, be

276
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:19.400
prepared for what you could see, because I think a

277
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.319
lot of people aren't. And when you have class a

278
00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:27.640
encounter or visual encounter with these creatures, whether it be

279
00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:30.880
close or far away, it's it can be stunning.

280
00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:38.839
That is that's extremely intense. I've just been listening this

281
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.240
whole time. You have definitely a few questions for you.

282
00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:45.799
The two main sightings at the beginning, the one to

283
00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:49.119
your left and the one down at the creek. How

284
00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:51.599
far away from you were both of those.

285
00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:56.200
My estimation, the one the what I'm going to call

286
00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:00.400
the juvenile gray white one, which is right above the ridge,

287
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.240
A Bobby was no more than about eighty five feet

288
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.480
for me, the one coming up the ridge line was

289
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.960
maybe maybe two hundred to three hundred feet from me,

290
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:16.319
so we're talking close. And what I found terrifying and

291
00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:19.279
scary the whole time this was going on is when

292
00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:24.559
you're seeing this, your mind is not comprehending what you're seeing.

293
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:29.240
And I was at one point felt like I was

294
00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:34.000
going to black out from this and being on a

295
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:36.720
ridge that high up and then having to go up

296
00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:40.519
another incline to get to where my campsite was. This

297
00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:44.079
was absolutely not something I was expecting. And then when

298
00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:48.440
you have when you have these experiences, Unfortunately I did

299
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.000
not have any equipment with me and I could when

300
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.960
I've talked about my setting with people are like, did

301
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:54.599
you have a camera with you? Did you have a

302
00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:57.039
video camera? Did you? And I'm like, no, I didn't.

303
00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.759
I was not. This was not something I was anticipating,

304
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.759
but it was life altering for me because it was

305
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.640
for me a vindication of the fact that I've always

306
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:10.119
suspected that these creatures were real and having seen the

307
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:15.160
evidence and my little research area that this happened. Now,

308
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:20.200
also keep in mind that along this ridge line about

309
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.960
a mile to my north, less than a mile to

310
00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:28.119
my north was a farmstead that was adjacent to the

311
00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:31.559
ridge that had a huge corn field and they were

312
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:36.279
growing tomatoes and other vegetable that a vegetable garden, but

313
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:39.079
it was like a corn field that backed up to

314
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:42.920
the ridge. So my thoult was maybe these creatures and

315
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.000
it being October and this is when people are harvesting

316
00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:50.960
corn and they're harvesting for the winter. I was very

317
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:54.440
curious that were these creatures there because of the food resources,

318
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:58.119
Because this area of black Rock Mill has an abundance

319
00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.359
of deer, has an abundance of fish, and then you

320
00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:05.279
have these outlying farms that have corn and other food resources.

321
00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:09.000
Obviously there's an abundance of things for them to eat.

322
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:12.000
So maybe I was just at the right time, at

323
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.039
the right place when all this happened, because I wasn't

324
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:18.640
when I initially went in to do this hike, was

325
00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:23.319
not anticipating to have an encounter like this, whereas prior

326
00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:26.480
I had a tree pushed down. The tree pushing down

327
00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:31.359
in front of me was extraordinary. And one time along

328
00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:33.799
one of the ridges that I was hiking one day,

329
00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:36.960
I was grunted at by one of these creatures, and

330
00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:39.920
I kept looking where the grunting was coming from, and

331
00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:42.480
I couldn't see where it was coming from. I could

332
00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:46.480
hear the direction, but there was a divot along the

333
00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:49.960
base of the ridge where it may have been laying

334
00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:53.119
down and grunting at me that I couldn't see. Because

335
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:58.279
these creatures, for whatever reason, they have an agility to

336
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:03.279
not only hide, but they're running ability. And the very

337
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:06.960
fact that this creature was running in circles around the

338
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.359
base of where I was at at such a high rate.

339
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:12.680
It was like listening to a deer run, you know.

340
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:15.559
I mean, that is how quick it was. And then

341
00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:17.359
it would stop, and then it would do it again.

342
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.200
But this is by pedal running, not quadrupedal running. This

343
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.920
was by pedle running, and it was just and then

344
00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:26.640
to intersperse this as this was going on, there results

345
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.920
of vocalizations coming up and down the creek bed. The

346
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.079
creek I want to call it like a holler, but

347
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:36.599
it's very steep the way the creek runs, and so

348
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:40.960
the echoing effect was that was in itself fascinating but

349
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.640
chilling at the time. In retrospect, looking back at this

350
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.799
experience and everything that was going on, it was something

351
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:54.079
that was terribly you don't know how to respond emotionally

352
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:58.759
to this, and unfortunately, again this way, did not have

353
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:02.200
equipment with me. So I'm very much this is an

354
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:07.240
experience that will definitely change me. But what I've also

355
00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.400
realized is that these creatures must have a complex social

356
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.720
organization because just the two that I saw, and then

357
00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:18.440
they were joined by their friends later in the evening

358
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.720
coming up the ridge, and they were obviously curious about

359
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:27.000
my presence. They never injured me. They obviously had multiple

360
00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:31.559
opportunities to charge me to injure me. There were a

361
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:34.000
few times at night where I was I had my

362
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:38.079
bedroll laid out, so imagine there's no tent going on here.

363
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:42.359
So I've got like a makeshift bedroll against a tree,

364
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.480
and there are these high trees that are like juniper

365
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:50.440
trees with mountain laurel growing around it. So they were

366
00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:53.319
about seven to eight feet in height, and they were

367
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:56.559
in front of me like a curtain, like a stage curtain, imagine.

368
00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:00.119
And throughout the night I would look up around on

369
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.440
the seven to eight feet level. I saw two eyeshine

370
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:07.079
milky white eye shines looking down at me, and I

371
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:09.880
would look up and then they would blink their eyes

372
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:13.799
and if they blinked their eyes, they were gone. At

373
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:15.720
one point in the night, I had to get up

374
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:21.160
and relieve myself. So I'm walking. So if you can imagine,

375
00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:26.079
this ridgeline has smaller hills adjacent to it going down

376
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.160
towards the creek. So I went to my right to

377
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:35.519
go relieve myself. And as I looked to my left,

378
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:39.440
right near my camp, I look and I see these

379
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:44.640
large circled eyes at around the seven to eight feet

380
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:48.079
level looking down at me again from behind this mountain,

381
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:53.039
whorl tree bush tree area, and I and then I

382
00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:56.519
look over at it and it closes its eyes and

383
00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:00.119
it's gone. I'm like, and so I look back over

384
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.920
and then I slowly turned back and walked back to

385
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.480
my to where my bedroll is and my makeshift camp,

386
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.200
which was essentially a backpack and a walking stick. I

387
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:12.400
had no I think I may have had a pocket

388
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.880
knife on me. A Swiss army there wasn't. I had

389
00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:18.279
no firearms. I'm in Maryland. We don't We don't really

390
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.440
have them as far as your ability to carry, conceal

391
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:24.920
carry whatever, open carry. So I had no protection. So

392
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.440
this is one of the reasons why you know I

393
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:29.720
tell people when you're out in the woods. I don't

394
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:32.640
know if they're aware enough to know what firearms are.

395
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:36.200
I think they are. But it's like I was never hurt,

396
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:39.119
I was never injured. I was scared. I'm pretty sure

397
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:41.880
they tried to scare me. Obviously they I feel like

398
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:44.599
I was in the wrong place or they were trying

399
00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:47.759
to hunt, and maybe I interrupted their ability to hunt.

400
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:51.359
But this is something that I will never forget, this

401
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:54.400
encounter my entire life and have and having shared it

402
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:57.799
with a handful of people. But it's this is something

403
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:01.400
that I immediately when and I'm going as an after

404
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:05.359
effect of all of this, I'm thinking to myself, what

405
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:09.119
is it that these creatures are and what is their

406
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:14.640
level of social organization, because ultimately, these creatures have probably

407
00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:18.000
been going through this area for decades. I have no

408
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.400
idea for a long time for them for this to

409
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:23.240
be a base for them of some form, and maybe

410
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:27.880
they're seasonally gathering and hunting in this area Maryland where

411
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:31.480
I live currently, I'm in what's called the Piedmont region.

412
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:34.039
So if you go on a map and you look

413
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:38.440
at the Appalachian Mountains, the sugar Loaf Region, the Piedmont

414
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:42.839
region of the Appalachian Mountains sits right here in where

415
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.119
the area of Maryland that I live in, and it

416
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:47.880
has one of the largest courts deposits of all of

417
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:51.359
the Appalachian Mountains. And so the indigenous peoples would come

418
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.359
here and quarry their courts to make their arrowheads. So

419
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.720
it's always been a settled it's always been an active

420
00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:01.799
area as far as native peoples, and then during the

421
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:05.079
colonial period. I've actually done archaeology in this area, so

422
00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:08.319
I know the history of what goes on, what has

423
00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:12.160
gone on historically in this area. But what's intriguing is

424
00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:16.599
that the piedmonts if you go from where my where

425
00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:19.960
I was camped and had my sighting, and you follow

426
00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:23.720
it north the Monocacy as you're going into Pennsylvania the

427
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:29.119
Susquehanna River, and you keep going north into Pennsylvania, and

428
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.680
you can actually pick up if you go the c

429
00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:36.759
and O Canal, which is a part of this region.

430
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:40.599
The Cino Canal actually runs from Washington, d c. All

431
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:43.839
the way to where I'm at, where there's a place

432
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.799
called Edwards Ferry. You can pick up the c and

433
00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:51.200
O Canal take that to point of Rocks in Maryland,

434
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:54.519
and then from there the Appalachian Trail goes all the

435
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:56.759
way up to me to the White Mountains of me

436
00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:01.519
So you literally could walk from Marsh DC to the

437
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.640
White Mountains of Maine and never see a person and

438
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:09.119
never get on a road. And so this is what's

439
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:13.400
fascinating about this area. Yeah, and so I'm of the

440
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:17.960
opinion that these creatures use this as a byeway. Maybe

441
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:19.599
I was at the right time, at the right place

442
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:23.680
for this to intersect, but literally there have always been

443
00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:25.920
sightings along the Appalachian truck. I think there's actually an

444
00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:31.240
organization that tracks bickfoot sightings along the Appalachian Trail. That's

445
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:35.400
what they do. And I'm often wondering if this is

446
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:38.880
what's going on, is that they're using these natural resource

447
00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:43.319
corridors that actually run from where I'm at in the

448
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:46.880
Lower Piedmonts through the Sugar Loaf all the way through

449
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:50.960
the Susquehanna into Pennsylvania, or they're just taking the Appalachian

450
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:53.759
Trail all the way up to the main And there's

451
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:59.160
plenty of sightings between Pennsylvania going into of course upstate

452
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.279
New York, the Atarandak Mountains, the algalon this whole area

453
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:08.200
into into into the main regions and down back and forth.

454
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.920
I did my field work in upstate New York, so

455
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:14.559
I'm very familiar with Western New York and having been

456
00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:16.880
there and having been in very remote regions in Western

457
00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:20.160
New York, this is there. There is plenty on the

458
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:23.519
east coast to cover these creatures, and of course in

459
00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:27.599
Northern Maryland, central to northern Maryland, there have been sightings

460
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:29.559
for decades in this area.

461
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:37.480
This is it's it just blowing my mind. So a

462
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.680
real world example for listeners. So the juvenile that he

463
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.240
was able to see eighty five feet away, a real

464
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:46.720
world example that would be like the size of a

465
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:50.920
full sized swimming pool. So it's really not that long

466
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:54.200
a distance, which is incredible to see it that close.

467
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:59.799
To ask you about that a bit. So what you

468
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:02.160
were seen had no clothes on it at all.

469
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:07.400
Correct, This was hair covered. Like I said, it was lanky,

470
00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.359
It was not robust. It was very lanky, and it

471
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:16.400
was white gray in color. But what was striking was

472
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:19.160
I could see some of the facial features and the

473
00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:23.359
eyes were dark. The brow ridge and the zagomatic arches

474
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:26.440
which is the cheek under where the cheekbones are were

475
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:31.519
sunken and swollen, I should say sunken in and where

476
00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:34.920
the lower jaw meets the lower jaw was a little

477
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.240
bit protruding. The nose was flat than a human nose.

478
00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:41.559
It was a little bit flatter than ours. It wasn't projecting,

479
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:44.960
and it grimaced at me. And when it grimaced, it

480
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:47.839
showed its teeth and they were blocked. They were blocked

481
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:52.079
like teeth. Did not see canines in this individual, and

482
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:55.240
they it was like grimacing. It was not smiling, but grimacing.

483
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.279
And I don't know if it was a shock response

484
00:29:58.359 --> 00:30:01.920
to seeing me or if it was a threat response,

485
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:05.160
which in primates usually you would see the canines. But

486
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:09.160
this was to me a grimace that I could see

487
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:12.759
its teeth. And then then I heard the individual below

488
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:16.160
me coming up from the creek bed, so the trail

489
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:18.920
was in the middle, so there was a ridge above

490
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:22.160
and then below coming up just to give it some perspective.

491
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:26.720
And this happened. I'm saying this happened like within ten

492
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.720
to fifteen seconds. So seeing the one above, seeing the

493
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:33.200
one below coming towards me, and then then completely moving

494
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.400
off into the underbrush, and then that started. This is

495
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:39.079
what I tell people like, that's how I started my evening,

496
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:44.359
and then this other aspect happened, and I've contemplated going back.

497
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:49.160
This experience was so altering for me that to try

498
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:51.559
and put it into words, and I've tried to articulate

499
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.960
my experience is the best way I can to give

500
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:58.960
as much detail, because really I really need a forensic

501
00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:03.079
sketch artist to come and sketch what I saw, because

502
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:07.000
I can like this happened in twenty fourteen. I literally

503
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.240
could if somebody I could draw, they could draw it

504
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:13.039
if I described it for them, the facial features of

505
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:15.599
the juvenile and how I saw them in the grimace

506
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.279
and the teeth, and I saw it long enough to

507
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.599
be able to make a very good sighting of it.

508
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.680
And it was really your mind just you can't wrap

509
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:29.480
your mind around it. And it did not Neither of

510
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:33.359
these creatures during this encounter vocalized at me. They didn't hoot,

511
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:38.200
they didn't scream. It was a very interesting encounter with

512
00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:41.960
no vocalization. It wasn't like they roared at me to

513
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:44.559
get me off the trail. They looked at me and

514
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.720
they just moved into the bush. And and the fact

515
00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:51.960
that the one coming up the ridge. I later went

516
00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:54.519
back to make a comparison to the tree that it

517
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:56.759
was standing next to, and it was well over eight

518
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:59.559
feet This creature was well over eight feet tall, and

519
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:03.279
that one I'm assuming and making the assumption that it

520
00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:05.880
was a much older creature, was a more mature creature.

521
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:10.680
It was. The shoulders on this thing were massive. And

522
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:13.319
the only comparison I can give it to is if

523
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:15.759
you've seen the Patterson Gimmelin footage, which most people have,

524
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:20.720
and the massiveness of Patty's shoulders. That was the size

525
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:23.960
of this creature, and that was massiveness of this creature.

526
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:27.680
I'm making the assumption that it was a juvenile and

527
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:31.440
that the one coming up was an older adult. But

528
00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:34.920
then there's this whole concept of sexual dimorphism. Do these

529
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:39.359
creatures have extreme sexual dimorphism between male and females? And

530
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:42.119
so that also is a whole other evolutionary question about

531
00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:45.119
what these creatures could be. I have some ideas. I'm

532
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:49.279
actually currently working on a theory about what would explain

533
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:54.680
the divergent appearances of the sasquatch around the United States

534
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:58.279
and in Canada, and why they're so behaviorally aggressive in

535
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:02.799
certain parts of the United States and others. So I'm

536
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:07.880
working on a theoretical model currently using microevolutionary theory to

537
00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:11.319
explain this, and so it'll eventually become a paper. But

538
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:16.039
I really want the application of science to apply to this,

539
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:18.720
and that includes my setting. Although I was terrified and

540
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:20.519
thought I was gonna black out, and believe me, I'm

541
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:23.759
a Type one diabetic and so I felt as if

542
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:26.880
my blood shuggars were dropping. So I had food in

543
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:29.759
my backpack. Thank god. I thought that I was just

544
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:30.400
going to lose it.

545
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:35.000
Oh my goodness. So one to the side, I would

546
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:38.440
recommend you reach out to a lady. Her name is

547
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:43.400
Sybylla Irwin, and I believe you know who she is. Yeah, okay, cool,

548
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:45.720
So yeah, she's your best bet for something like that.

549
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:48.680
Who would be able to draw what you saw. I

550
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.440
would recommend talking to her also, so you have so

551
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:56.200
much knowledge when it comes to what different human ancestors,

552
00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:59.319
different types of apes look like. I would imagine what

553
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:03.799
you say saw in the face of the juvenile. Did

554
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:08.559
it ring a bell in your knowledge base of anything else?

555
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:10.000
Did it come close to anything?

556
00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:16.239
Interestingly enough? Looking at the robustness of the skull as

557
00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:19.199
far as its facial features, go and looking at the

558
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:21.599
creature that, of course I only saw in profile coming

559
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:26.480
up to me, this is just my assessment. I've often

560
00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:30.679
said this, the fact that these creatures have spent their

561
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:36.079
entire evolutionary history avoiding humans or only having close encounters

562
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:39.440
with us, and usually among First nation and indigenous peoples.

563
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:42.400
When we go into the Pacific Northwest and we look

564
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:46.840
at qua qua Quakutal people, these are the people we

565
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:50.840
get the appearance of Genaqua from. And this is on

566
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:54.480
the totems. They actually have a clan, the Hamasah, which

567
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:58.159
are a shamanic clan among the Dheniqua clan, which is

568
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.800
where we get the open oval mouth of the Sasca,

569
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.119
of the Bigfoot, the Sasquatch. They have a ceremonial and

570
00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:09.480
ritual complex centered entirely around these creatures. And to me,

571
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:13.639
the fact that there is that either there's a going

572
00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:19.519
up back and forth between cultural complexes and then interactions

573
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.280
with Western European peoples throughout Canada and throughout the United States,

574
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:27.320
to me, these creatures are probably a form of relic

575
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:32.159
commoned of what variety is of still of debate. I'm

576
00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:35.800
not a big camp believer. In the gigantipithesene. I think

577
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:38.719
a lot of that has fallen out. I don't think

578
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:42.880
that we still are arguing whether gigantopithec Is Blackie was

579
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:46.400
actually bipedal. We knew that they were large and enormous,

580
00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:50.239
but we only have roughly several hundred teeth and the

581
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:55.000
reconstruction of a lower mandible from these creatures from excavations

582
00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:59.159
and China and von Koning's vault, who was the rough

583
00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:03.239
Unconing's vault, who was the anthropologist that discovered the gigentiphysis

584
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:07.159
and teeth prior to World War two, before the Japanese

585
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:10.760
invasion into what was called into China. Then Coningsvald was

586
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:13.440
working at the School of Medicine in Beijing and he

587
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:16.079
was an anthropologist there, and they would go to apothecary's

588
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:18.920
and look at fossil teeth. And he began to see

589
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:22.960
these fossil teeth and collecting them and recognizing that they

590
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:26.519
were from a species, an undescribed species. I could go

591
00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:29.960
on and on about evolutionary anthropology and how this because

592
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:33.440
there's so much about these creatures that are intriguing enough,

593
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:36.320
but to me, in my opinion, and this is just

594
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:40.360
in my academic opinion, and that is is that we're

595
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:44.960
probably dealing with a relic hominid and not an anthropoid,

596
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:50.880
whereas Giganipithecus was an anthropoid, was a giant anthropoid. Although,

597
00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:55.360
as a side note, there was a German anatomist named

598
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:00.639
Franz Weidendraka and he examined the same teeth that konings

599
00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:05.079
Halt did, and in his assessment Giganipithecus was of a

600
00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:09.800
hominid form, a giant hominid form that was bipedal. Now

601
00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:12.199
how he came up with this assessment from examining the

602
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:16.719
same fossil material that Koningsvald did is interesting, But they

603
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:21.760
both published papers and conings Vault's paper is available and

604
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:25.239
Viideddika's paper is available, and they came to two separate

605
00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:31.440
conclusions from examining the same fossil material. I'm going to

606
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.559
just make the basic assessment here that what we're dealing

607
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:41.039
with is probably more than likely a coevolved relic commented

608
00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:45.840
that has lived alongside modern humans. Now keep this in

609
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:50.119
mind too, we have never in our evolutionary history as

610
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:54.280
Homo sapien sapiens. We have only in the late Holocene

611
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:58.599
period the modern period been alone as a species supposedly,

612
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:03.159
and I put that in big quotation marks, because throughout

613
00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:06.639
our history we've always had our hominid cousins living alongside

614
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:12.280
us Homo erectus, the now described Denisovans or Denisovins, however

615
00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:15.159
you're gonna pronounce the Denievans, I say Denisovans, which we

616
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:17.639
do have some fossil remains from, but we don't have

617
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:21.440
a lot. But the fact that we're pushing back the

618
00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:25.159
calendar on the evolution of humans, but also pushing it

619
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:28.679
forward and to how long they may have continued to survive,

620
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:33.320
because we know that the Neanderthalis continued in southern Spain

621
00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:37.760
and in Siberia much later into the Pleistocene and obviously

622
00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:40.599
encountered us modern humans and bread with us as well.

623
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:43.679
So there was ind of breeding going on, that this

624
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:46.639
was going on for thousands upon thousands of years from

625
00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:49.159
the Pliocene all the way up to the modern Holocene

626
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.559
to the modern period, that this interaction was going on

627
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:55.320
to all of a sudden say oh, we're it, and

628
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:57.760
these other I don't know, these people sing these hairy

629
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:02.280
hominids and Alberta, Canada or or Vancouver. These people are crazy,

630
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:06.199
but the fact that they're found all over South Southeastern Asia,

631
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:10.599
South Asia, I could do an entire show on relic

632
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:15.079
comonids in Southeast Asia as opposed to Siberia. As the

633
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:19.800
fact that these creatures are so widely diversely seen, we

634
00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:22.840
may be dealing with multiple species. We may be dealing

635
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:27.480
with relic anthropoidal creatures, and we may be dealing with

636
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:33.199
relic cometed creatures that persist among our modern human populations

637
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:38.840
throughout the world. So there's so many questions around around

638
00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:41.599
what we call bigfoot in the Canadians called sasquatch. I

639
00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:43.360
do want to put a little side note in here

640
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:48.360
about the word sasquatch, so most people may know or

641
00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:51.920
may not know that the stot e Looss, the Shahalless

642
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:56.360
people of Harris and Hot Springs, British Columbia, the Fraser

643
00:39:56.440 --> 00:40:00.360
River Valley where a man named J. W. Burn, who

644
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:04.039
is the Indian agent for this area, did his research

645
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:07.440
at being collecting these stories. He was actually a school

646
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:11.000
like a school teacher, began collecting these stories and publishing them.

647
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:17.440
And the word sasquatch comes from the shahalas the thought

648
00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:21.639
you lost people their word for bigfoot, and it's stuck.

649
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:25.800
And so throughout all of Canada it's generically known as Sasquatch,

650
00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:30.039
but its origins are the Fraser River, Parris and Hot

651
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:31.119
Springs Valley.

652
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:36.599
Okay, it's extremely interesting, so much information, Mike Guinness, So

653
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:39.000
I want to make sure that we do have time

654
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:42.360
to talk about your second experience as well. Do you

655
00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:44.519
mind if we start moving on to that.

656
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:48.000
Yeah, absolutely, and I'll go through this. So this is

657
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:50.840
this is a probably a pretty well known sighting at

658
00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:54.119
this point, since it did appear in a documentary already.

659
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.440
But in January of twenty seventeen, I went to visit

660
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:03.480
my friend my friends in Canada and Vancouver, and we

661
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:07.760
decided to take a to take a visit up the

662
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:11.679
up into Harrison. And I had never been to Harrison before,

663
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:16.880
nor been to the areas that make up what is

664
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:21.119
also known as Sasquatch Provincial Park, which is where Harrison

665
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:24.880
peaks at this area, and so it was I was

666
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:26.639
there at a weird time of year because it was

667
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:31.400
winter and January Vancouver, and in that part of Canada,

668
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:34.960
the weather's unpredictable. So we decided to get in my

669
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:41.280
friend's car and drive from Surrey, Surrey, Canada, which is

670
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:45.239
a suburb of Vancouver, all the way up to Harrison.

671
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:47.960
And as you go into Harrison and you enter into

672
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:50.920
these areas, the elevation picks up it becomes more remote.

673
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:53.760
But then there's this place called the Sasquatch Inn which

674
00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:57.199
is very famous and they sell food, they sell books

675
00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:00.000
and t shirts, and we went to visit and act.

676
00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:03.880
So when we were there visiting, they were redesigning the building,

677
00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:06.719
so it really wasn't open, but we were there. We

678
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:08.719
were able to go into the gift store and buy

679
00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:11.039
a few things and look around and everything, but we

680
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.199
didn't eat. So we continued on up to go to

681
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:18.079
to go into Harrison, and we stopped off on the

682
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:21.760
way up to the Shahalis Reserve and got a chance

683
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:23.920
to walk around the reserve and talk to some of

684
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:28.800
the locals and visit. And so we continued on again.

685
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:34.559
This is late afternoon, so the temperature dropped significantly as

686
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:38.480
we began to go into this area, and we got

687
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:43.079
to describe this area of Harrison. As you're going up

688
00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:48.079
in elevation, you come to a gated entrance which was

689
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:51.679
open at the time it was off season, but you

690
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:56.880
enter into what's called Sasquatch Provincial Park. And at the gate,

691
00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:00.440
which is a yellow gate that was open, we stopped

692
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:03.079
our car and we were deciding do we want to

693
00:43:03.159 --> 00:43:07.039
go down into the camping area where the lake. There's

694
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:11.239
a lake there and the lake oversees the mountain ridge,

695
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:14.039
and so we were sitting there there was a lake,

696
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:16.719
late was fading. It was late afternoon, say around four

697
00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:20.000
point thirty, and we get out of the cars, stretch

698
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.679
our legs and we look up the ridge and there's

699
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:28.119
a ridge right above the yellow gate and we're looking

700
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:34.599
and we see this very large shadow like figure picking

701
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:39.679
behind a tree. Now my friend John, who had never

702
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:43.960
had a sasquatch encounter, was looking up going He pulls

703
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:46.480
us all aside and go what is that? Because we're

704
00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:49.360
looking up at it, and this thing begins to sway

705
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:54.239
between the tree and these trees in Harrison, these huge

706
00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:58.559
spruce pine trees. They're very thick, they're very wide, and

707
00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:01.159
we're looking up and we're like or pointing to it,

708
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:03.679
and we're looking at it, and it keeps swaying and

709
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:06.719
looking at us, going in this peaking, going back and forth.

710
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:10.400
And his wife Wanona, who's a lifelong friend of mine.

711
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:15.320
Wanona looks up and she's Native and she's first Nation,

712
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:19.800
and she looks up and she does a wave at it,

713
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:24.880
like waves at it, and this creature raises its right

714
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:29.920
arm and waves back and you can see the string

715
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:35.400
hair coming off of the arm, and it lowers its

716
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:38.880
arm back down again. And of course at this point

717
00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:42.119
we all know what we're seeing, and we begin to

718
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:45.880
go up. We leave the roadway and we go climb

719
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:49.679
up the ridge towards where and of course understand the

720
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:52.760
steepness of the ridge. We didn't have climbing equipment and

721
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:54.679
it was it was it had rain, i think the

722
00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:57.400
night before, so it was a little slippery, so none

723
00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:00.320
of us had any gear with us. So we're trying

724
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:01.960
to make our way up to where the tree line

725
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:04.760
we finally do. Of course, we don't see any tracks,

726
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:07.760
we don't see anything, but we all saw what we saw,

727
00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:12.400
so we come back down the hill. John calls one

728
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:15.280
of his good friends who's a saucequad treacher in Canada

729
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:19.239
and as a member of the British Columbia Cryptusiologic Society,

730
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:23.079
which I'm also a member of, and John calls this

731
00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:26.199
guy up and so he shows up, knows where the

732
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:29.199
location is, shows up, and if you remember back in

733
00:45:29.239 --> 00:45:33.239
the day when the Ford looking infrared, the flour cameras

734
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:35.880
were huge. They're not like they're a very portable that

735
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:38.639
and they were much larger. So this thing was in

736
00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:41.960
the bed of his truck, his pickup truck. So he

737
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:45.960
drives up and of course he had We're in John's Toyota,

738
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:49.000
so we don't. So we park the Toyota on the

739
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:52.320
side of the road, We hop in his truck and

740
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:55.760
we go up the mountain side. Now we get to

741
00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:58.400
such an elevation. The idea was that we were going

742
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:01.079
to go up and call down and see if we

743
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:03.400
get the scene to call back up or possibly even

744
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:07.119
catch it. Coming up the mountain side, the snow was

745
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:11.039
so thick we had to stop. It was up to

746
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:13.039
when we got out of the truck. It was up

747
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:16.000
to our knees. So there was no snow at the

748
00:46:16.039 --> 00:46:19.960
lower elevations, but it was so called outside. None of

749
00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:23.960
us had the proper the proper coats or gear to

750
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:27.199
stay the night, so we cut. This is where it's

751
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:29.440
really interesting. So we decide, okay, we can't go any

752
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:31.519
further in the truck. So we turned the truck back

753
00:46:31.559 --> 00:46:35.079
around come back down the mountain side to where we

754
00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:39.920
were originally where John's car was parked, and so we

755
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:43.480
parked the car there, and we're telling the gentleman who

756
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:46.079
owns the truck and the car, We're like, this is

757
00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:49.480
where we saw him, and we're pointing up towards the ridgeline.

758
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:54.639
So he then takes his flour camera and works it

759
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:58.360
around so it's pointing up at the direction where this

760
00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:03.760
creature was and and behold, it had come back, and

761
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:07.639
it was watching us, not realizing it was being filmed

762
00:47:08.559 --> 00:47:12.840
and watching us as we were looking up and talking

763
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:16.039
and describing, and we actually did a few calls to

764
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:18.440
see if we get a call back. We did a

765
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:22.360
few bigfoot POWs, and all of a sudden, the guy

766
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:26.519
in the truck goes, it's right there, And so we're

767
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:31.559
seeing this creature moved down the ridge from in front

768
00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:35.199
of the tree as it's sneaking around the trees to

769
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:39.079
behind a boulder, so it's now peeking over the battle

770
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:41.079
so we can see the crest of its skull and

771
00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:44.920
its head on top of being able to see this

772
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:47.920
thing moved down and it moved back up, so it

773
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.599
did it twice. So we got about two minutes of

774
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:54.239
this and the rest of the evening, this thing then

775
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:58.760
moved off entirely and it moved away, and so we

776
00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:01.800
stayed there for another hour, maybe two hours, seeing if

777
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:05.480
it would come back, and all we got were rodents

778
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:09.639
in the underbrush. Going back, we caught wildlife moving, but

779
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:12.000
this thing never came back down. I don't know if

780
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:14.840
it realized it was being filmed, but we got it.

781
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.480
We got it for about a minute and a half,

782
00:48:17.559 --> 00:48:21.159
two minutes we got this thing moving, and so it

783
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:24.400
was freezing cold, realizing this creature wasn't going to come back,

784
00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:26.440
and of course we didn't have equipment with us to

785
00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:28.239
camp out, and it was it had to have been

786
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:32.800
maybe twenty degrees outside and maybe colder than that with

787
00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:38.039
the wind howling and everything. And so we then pack

788
00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:43.239
up leave go back to their condo in Surrey, and

789
00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:47.159
then the next day we go right back up and

790
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:51.719
we're looking for cass. Now. Winona, having lived on Alexis

791
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:57.000
and Stony Plains and Alberta in the First Nation Nakota community,

792
00:48:57.519 --> 00:49:00.400
she was a trained tracker, so she began to look

793
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:03.719
for tracks and lo and behold where this creature had

794
00:49:03.800 --> 00:49:07.760
moved down from the tree line near this large rock boulder,

795
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:09.760
which is what we were able to get up to.

796
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:15.119
We had three tracks, three clear imprints, and we had

797
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:19.400
casting material and we casted them. I photographed them. I

798
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:23.960
have them. I photographed the length between the footstep between

799
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:25.840
the three tracks that we were able to cast. There

800
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:28.639
probably would have been more, but they were not castable.

801
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:32.039
But we were able to cast three clear tracks and

802
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:34.800
they were over seventeen and a half inches long and

803
00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:36.920
about five and a half inches wide, with a huge

804
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:42.119
end step, clearly a large individual. That same day we

805
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:45.079
were able to visit one of the leading Canadian researchers,

806
00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:49.760
Tom Steinberg, who is a well known Canadian researcher, came

807
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:54.000
and took our reports, took our eyewitness report and was

808
00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:57.719
able to then interview us. And then when I came

809
00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:00.320
back to the States, Tom called me back and was

810
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:05.000
able to interview me further about my sighting. And so, yeah,

811
00:50:05.239 --> 00:50:08.199
so that was my sighting in Canada and still I

812
00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:12.559
think one of the best mass sightings ever of a sasquatch,

813
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:16.840
citing probably in the last decade or so, and so

814
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:20.880
to be a part of both encounters, although would I

815
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:25.119
jokingly say is my encounter in Maryland was terrifying, life altering,

816
00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:27.360
but I had no equipment with me. The one in

817
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:33.239
Canada was seen by multiple eyewitnesses, photographed, plenty of evidence

818
00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:36.840
to show what this creature was dealing with both ends

819
00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:40.400
of the spectrum here. It's Bigford experiences. I jokingly say,

820
00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:44.000
lightning does strike twice, but those were my two experiences.

821
00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:47.840
It's absolutely incredible. You said that, is that in a

822
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:51.280
Small Town Monsters documentary that that's called out?

823
00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:54.920
Yes it is, and it was a part of the series.

824
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:57.800
I think that was just recently released. But John will

825
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:01.440
say we had an Emberic friend visit. I was the

826
00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:06.000
American friend, so I've never done for a very long time,

827
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:09.599
and they're the old friends and I'm very very happy

828
00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:12.599
to be a part of the British Columbia Cryptozoologic Society.

829
00:51:12.679 --> 00:51:14.840
Had been for a number of years. Unfortunately I don't

830
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:16.719
get up to Canada as much as i'd like to,

831
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:21.199
but yeah, those were some really incredible times and I

832
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:24.039
would like to go back to Harrison, into the same

833
00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:27.840
area and maybe spend a lot more significant time because

834
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:30.079
it's an act area. There's a reason why it's called

835
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:34.239
Sasquatch Provincial Park, obviously because it has been a feature

836
00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:38.840
of many Bigfoot sightings over the decades and it's well known.

837
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:43.039
And the really cool thing about the Harrison sighting was,

838
00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:46.559
with great fortune we had the right people, the right

839
00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:49.800
equipment and everything there. Although it was more of a

840
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:54.159
long distance sighting, we could document it my Maryland sighting,

841
00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:59.679
which again was very scary and terrifying, but I don't

842
00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:04.239
have it's anecdotal, but having had both experiences, one in

843
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:07.920
twenty fourteen and then in twenty seventeen in Canada, this

844
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:11.360
is I think these creatures are much more vibrant of

845
00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:14.440
population than we give them credit. And I think that

846
00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:18.599
they're closer to civilization as well, probably to habitat loss.

847
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:22.679
I would actually maybe a different show, but I would

848
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:26.079
love to go into some of the possible evolutionary theories

849
00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:30.960
about why we have such disparate when people describe bigfit

850
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:34.079
in Texas, when they describe them in Maine that described

851
00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:37.559
it in the Pacific Northwest, why that is, and the

852
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:43.440
evolutionary mechanisms behind the behavioral differences and the morphological differences.

853
00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:48.159
That is something that I've become very attuned to in

854
00:52:48.199 --> 00:52:51.239
a theoretical way that I would love to do, either

855
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:55.199
an academic paper or a presentation, is to explain how

856
00:52:55.239 --> 00:53:01.840
do we apply evolutionary biology to to these incredible sightings

857
00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:04.639
in both Canada and the United States.

858
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:09.119
Part of this encounter is extremely interesting because it's a

859
00:53:09.159 --> 00:53:12.599
pattern that's started to come up in my interviews over

860
00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:17.920
the years different places. And yeah, it's the part where

861
00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:22.039
Whenona was really able to have a form of sign

862
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:25.519
language back and forth. This has come up. There's an

863
00:53:26.239 --> 00:53:30.519
interview I did with Ernie Devereaux with Ernie out of

864
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:34.760
western Massachusetts where there was this present and there's also

865
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:39.000
a researcher in the Mount Hood area that had many

866
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:43.960
times where sign language was used back and forth between

867
00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:48.960
themselves and individuals. And do you have any thoughts about

868
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:54.360
sign language or hand motions being used between Sasquatch as

869
00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:56.119
an anthropologist.

870
00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:59.480
Yeah, I do. Actually, I think that when you combine

871
00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:02.400
this year sounds and what's going on in the analysis

872
00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:04.599
of the Sierra Sound, which of course are very famous now,

873
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:08.280
and when you look at reports of people having non

874
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:13.360
verbal sign language going on and how it's used. A

875
00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:17.840
lot of the First Nation peoples in Canada will talk

876
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:20.719
about the use of sign language and their encounters with

877
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:25.280
the Sasquatch throughout Canada, whether it's Central Alberta, whether it's

878
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:29.280
in the Mountains of Canada, the Canadian Rockies, or along

879
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:33.440
the Northwest Coast. What's been studied more and I again,

880
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:35.599
there's so much more I could go into detail with

881
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:38.960
as far as cultural goes. The Northwest Coast people have

882
00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:44.079
an entire ceremonial and cultural complex around their interaction with

883
00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:47.880
these creatures, going all the way up the Fraser River Valley,

884
00:54:48.440 --> 00:54:51.719
and then you go into central Canada, the Canadian Rockies,

885
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:56.760
you go into Alberta, in Saskatchewan, in Ontario, some of

886
00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:01.840
the earliest documented European encounters with Sasquatch and Canada come

887
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:07.119
from Ontario, from French Canadian encounters with these creatures. But

888
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:11.639
then the ethnographic research and the actual field work done

889
00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:15.559
by anthropologists going back to Franz Boas in the eighteen

890
00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:20.119
nineties he talks about what we now call Bigfoot and Sasquatch.

891
00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:25.360
There is a written record from both anthropologists in the

892
00:55:25.400 --> 00:55:29.400
Northwest Coast and then European descendant peoples in the Ontario

893
00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:33.880
region of Canada that document these creatures going back two

894
00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:38.840
hundred years or better. This is what really French Boas

895
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:41.440
is doing his work in the eighteen nineties through the

896
00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:45.760
nineteen twenties and thirties, and I've studied Boas's work extensively.

897
00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:49.119
And then there were other Canadian anthropologists doing field work

898
00:55:49.480 --> 00:55:53.000
among the Quakutal people and the Height and the Clinkett

899
00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:55.840
the coast of Clinkett and Alaska, which have Alaska, their

900
00:55:55.880 --> 00:56:00.719
indigenous cultures have a major bigfoot culture. This is something

901
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:05.679
that is intriguing and to me, I have always said

902
00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:10.800
this from day one. To me, the biggest evidence for

903
00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:15.559
the existence of these creatures is the ethnographic and ethnohistorical evidence.

904
00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:21.800
To me, that speaks more widely of the existence of

905
00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:27.679
these creatures than the footprint evidence, the sightings. They're all

906
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:32.639
very important, incredibly important scientifically to examine the foot tracks,

907
00:56:33.079 --> 00:56:37.960
but the ethnohistorical evidence is overwhelming, not just in North America,

908
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:42.880
not just in Canada, but in Southeast Asia, in Central Asia.

909
00:56:43.239 --> 00:56:46.719
You're going back centuries at that point with human interactions

910
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:50.679
with relic committed populations. This is just something that you know,

911
00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:56.159
it needs much more attention from academia, but much more

912
00:56:56.199 --> 00:56:59.880
attention when we're all in the field. We need to

913
00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:03.079
be acutely aware of what's going on when we have

914
00:57:03.159 --> 00:57:04.920
these things, and I know it's hard because they can

915
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:07.719
be terrifying, But to record as much as you can

916
00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:11.679
the data, what you're witnessing, the behaviorally, as well as

917
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:14.199
what you're seeing as far as the creatures go, there's

918
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:15.800
just so much. There's just so much.

919
00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:20.800
What kind of data should one be capturing. What's the

920
00:57:20.840 --> 00:57:23.800
most important data to capture when you're in that situation.

921
00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:27.639
I think if you can get visual evidence, that would

922
00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:31.320
be the best. I often have held that if people

923
00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:33.400
have been putting out plot watchers. I know that's been

924
00:57:33.440 --> 00:57:36.239
a thing now for a number of years. But the

925
00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:40.760
audio evidence at a tape recorder that night, that will

926
00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:43.480
never leave my memory. What I heard and that I

927
00:57:43.599 --> 00:57:46.239
kept it to myself and for a long time until

928
00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:49.960
I heard another person being interviewed on a podcast that

929
00:57:50.360 --> 00:57:53.000
mentioned this, and I about dropped what I had in

930
00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:55.840
my hands because I'd never heard anybody mention that before.

931
00:57:56.239 --> 00:57:59.880
But the audio is I think as important as the visual,

932
00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:02.400
and of course the footprints. If you can cast footprints,

933
00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:04.920
do you. I think there's a lot of mistaken between

934
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:10.719
bear tracks double steps with certain species of bear and sasquatch.

935
00:58:10.760 --> 00:58:13.440
I think that I think there are genuinely great casts

936
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.519
out there. There are hundreds of them, but I think

937
00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:18.119
some people are seeing I've looked at people that say, oh,

938
00:58:18.159 --> 00:58:20.920
that's a sasquarech. No, that's an omipad and claws. That's

939
00:58:20.920 --> 00:58:22.920
a bear, that's a large it's a grizzly or a

940
00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:25.840
large brown. It's not a sasquatch. But I've seen what

941
00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:29.400
I saw on the ridgeline when before I had my

942
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:33.199
encounter that was clearly not a human track. I unfortunately

943
00:58:33.199 --> 00:58:35.679
did not have casting material with me. It's all about

944
00:58:35.960 --> 00:58:37.599
being in the right place at the right time, with

945
00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:40.800
the right equipment, and really do those things ever come together.

946
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:44.239
What if you're let's say you're out in an area

947
00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:47.719
you're wanting to do the Jane Goodall method and you're like,

948
00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:50.280
I'm gonna spend one thousand hours in this area. I

949
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:53.880
know it's active, and just be there and observe. All

950
00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:57.840
you have is a journal and a pencil or a

951
00:58:57.880 --> 00:59:00.719
pen What are the most important things things to be

952
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:01.440
writing down?

953
00:59:01.480 --> 00:59:05.039
Would you say I would write down first of all,

954
00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:08.519
when you're doing field work like that, you want to

955
00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:14.039
be consistent with not only where you're at, but consistent

956
00:59:14.199 --> 00:59:16.599
to be there all the time at the same time

957
00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:20.960
of day, but also to note things like what is

958
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:24.639
the weather like, what is the temperature like? What time

959
00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:27.360
of day are you there? And if you're getting activity

960
00:59:27.519 --> 00:59:31.800
like calls rock clacking, which in my area is much

961
00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:36.159
more common than wood knocking. I've discovered that with rock clacking,

962
00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:39.599
when is this occurring, what part of the areas is occurring?

963
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:42.239
And then going there. And we have this concept in

964
00:59:42.280 --> 00:59:46.559
anthropology it's called being a visual presence. So even if

965
00:59:46.599 --> 00:59:49.679
you're an other and you're not from a culture, the

966
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:54.440
nature of both intelligent human beings and I would assume

967
00:59:54.519 --> 00:59:59.840
also intelligent primates or well a common is your presence

968
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:02.440
and your visual presence. They're ware that you're there. There's

969
01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:06.199
no reason to put a gillies and suit on or camouflage.

970
01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:09.079
They know you're there. People. I see this all the time.

971
01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:11.679
People are going in with camo and they're putting like

972
01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:15.239
football cane on their face. I'm like, they know you're there,

973
01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:20.679
so be there. Do normal things, Sing songs, be a

974
01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:24.400
visual presence so that they're curious, they will come to you.

975
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:26.639
You don't really need to look for a sasquatch. They

976
01:00:26.679 --> 01:00:28.519
will come to you if they're in the area. If

977
01:00:28.519 --> 01:00:30.400
you're there long enough and you're willing to put in

978
01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:33.199
the time, they will eventually make themselves known to you.

979
01:00:34.719 --> 01:00:37.519
And so that would be my recommendation. But keep notes

980
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:40.519
about what you're doing, what works, what doesn't work. Were

981
01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:43.119
you're leaving food if you are, what kind of food?

982
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:46.559
How often is it being taken? Is it not being taken?

983
01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:50.119
Are you not leaving food? Are you just hanging out?

984
01:00:50.599 --> 01:00:54.760
When I had my terrifying encounter, all I had was

985
01:00:54.760 --> 01:00:57.760
like a bedroll, a backpack and a walking step and

986
01:00:57.800 --> 01:00:59.960
a hat on and that was it. And I think

987
01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:02.800
I had my insulin with me and some food. I didn't.

988
01:01:03.199 --> 01:01:05.880
I was not anticipating this, and that often is the case.

989
01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:07.960
I was thinking, Okay, I'm in an area where I

990
01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:10.039
know they're at. Let me just go hiking in this area.

991
01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:14.800
I was not anticipating this level of activity. Now I

992
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:18.280
know after the fact that you know what I need

993
01:01:18.320 --> 01:01:20.679
to bring when I go back out there. But to

994
01:01:20.719 --> 01:01:24.639
your point exactly is to be a visual presence, but

995
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:29.440
to be non intrusive, so you're there observing, you're sitting there.

996
01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:32.800
I know people that have brought in musical instruments. If

997
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:36.079
you play a woodwind instrument like a flute or a

998
01:01:36.119 --> 01:01:40.039
harmonica to get just or a lot of people who

999
01:01:40.039 --> 01:01:44.199
have encounters are having picnics, they're just camping, they're singing

1000
01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:47.440
camp songs. I will have to say I know two

1001
01:01:47.480 --> 01:01:50.599
other anthropologists that have done research in this area, but

1002
01:01:50.639 --> 01:01:54.440
because they're not they're still teaching at universities, they're not

1003
01:01:54.679 --> 01:01:58.760
out about their research. But both of them had encounters

1004
01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:04.880
as chill children and boy Scouts in northern California. So

1005
01:02:05.079 --> 01:02:07.599
one of them was on a camping expedition in northern

1006
01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:10.800
California as a boy Scout or a cup Scout or whatever,

1007
01:02:11.320 --> 01:02:13.679
and one of these creatures walked into their camp at

1008
01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:18.320
night and they could see it through the campfire that

1009
01:02:18.519 --> 01:02:21.079
was going that they could see the outline of this

1010
01:02:21.159 --> 01:02:23.960
creature walk through their camp. And he was a young boy,

1011
01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:27.239
and of course later years later he became an anthropologist,

1012
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:31.480
and he had an encounter many years later. But because

1013
01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:35.719
they're both still teaching, they don't want to to jeopardize that.

1014
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:38.559
There's still is a lot of prejudice in the field

1015
01:02:38.599 --> 01:02:42.760
of anthropology around the subject matter academia, and so Jeff

1016
01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:45.920
Meldrum was an amazing man somebody spoke to on the

1017
01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:48.920
number of occasions, an incredible person and great loss to

1018
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:51.960
our field. Jeff Meldrum was the exception to the rule

1019
01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:56.320
and not the normally people that teach anthropology at universities

1020
01:02:56.320 --> 01:03:00.599
and colleges. You can mention bigfoot and sasquatch no graphic

1021
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:03.920
context in an evolutionary but you can't bring you You

1022
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:05.679
couldn't just say I'm going to keech a course on

1023
01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:09.519
sashquatch studies, although I think that might be changing in

1024
01:03:09.639 --> 01:03:10.440
certain parts of can.

1025
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:14.119
Yeah, someday probably hopefully, I really hope. So so I

1026
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:17.239
want to clarify, just something to make sure I heard

1027
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:19.639
it right. So are you saying that multiple anthropologists have

1028
01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:25.960
had encounters while researching in this one Maryland area.

1029
01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:27.840
No, not in one was in one was in another

1030
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:30.280
part of the United States. But they're both colleagues and

1031
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:32.760
friends of mine that I've known for years. And I said,

1032
01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:35.400
why don't you come to conferences? You're like, I can't.

1033
01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:39.360
They literally can't. But this is something that when you

1034
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:42.280
have somebody of a professional area that you know, would

1035
01:03:42.280 --> 01:03:45.039
be like having a medical doctor being in the field,

1036
01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:48.320
or a surgeon that has an encounter and is seeing

1037
01:03:48.360 --> 01:03:51.960
a sasquatch, or a p diatrist, you know somebody you

1038
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:55.440
know who works in the field of medicine that is

1039
01:03:55.480 --> 01:03:58.079
trained and then has an encounter. I would be curious

1040
01:03:58.119 --> 01:04:02.039
to get a group of diatrists together to who are

1041
01:04:02.119 --> 01:04:06.760
not Bickfoot enthusiasts, to actually seriously look at the known,

1042
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:11.360
really good casts out there from a scientific perspective, totally

1043
01:04:11.400 --> 01:04:14.320
adjacent from the Bickfoot field. That would be a real

1044
01:04:14.400 --> 01:04:15.239
interesting study.

1045
01:04:16.360 --> 01:04:18.840
No, I agree one hundred percent, and I believe there

1046
01:04:18.880 --> 01:04:22.079
could be a few out there. Have you gone out

1047
01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:24.719
to Do you still continue to go out to the

1048
01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:26.559
Maryland area or was that a one time do?

1049
01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:31.320
I was actually out there, ironically. I was out there

1050
01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:34.639
about three weeks ago. I was up early in the

1051
01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:36.639
morning and I could not sleep, so I got in

1052
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:39.360
my car and it was around three or four o'clock

1053
01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:42.039
in the morning, and I drove to the area where

1054
01:04:42.039 --> 01:04:45.199
I had my sighting, parked my car and went up

1055
01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:47.280
the river, and I was there to try and get

1056
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:48.800
the morning light. I was actually going to try and

1057
01:04:48.800 --> 01:04:52.480
do some photography, which I actually did, but the entire

1058
01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:57.559
time I walked into that area, parked my car, was

1059
01:04:57.599 --> 01:04:59.760
walking along the river. I didn't go up to the

1060
01:04:59.800 --> 01:05:02.480
ri because it was I was walking along the river

1061
01:05:03.039 --> 01:05:06.039
trying to get the sun coming up over to get

1062
01:05:06.079 --> 01:05:10.920
good shots of the area, and the entire time the

1063
01:05:11.079 --> 01:05:15.000
ridges were above me. And as the sun came up,

1064
01:05:15.599 --> 01:05:20.960
I swore I was being watched, that ceiling of being watched,

1065
01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:24.000
and I was like, I got really uneasy because the

1066
01:05:24.039 --> 01:05:26.639
foliage is so thick in some of these areas. You

1067
01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:30.639
literally during the day it's so dark you almost need

1068
01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:34.760
a flashlight. So I'm going through this area as the

1069
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:36.480
sun is coming up. I knew the sun was going

1070
01:05:36.559 --> 01:05:39.679
to come up very soon. And I was walking through

1071
01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:43.880
this very bench foliage along the river, along the Seneca River,

1072
01:05:44.679 --> 01:05:49.800
and I looked up towards where the ridgelines surround the river,

1073
01:05:50.519 --> 01:05:53.960
and I was like, I got the very strong sense

1074
01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:57.239
that I was being watched, and I took my picture.

1075
01:05:57.239 --> 01:06:00.440
It's like a few flower photographs, some pictures of the river.

1076
01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:03.239
I did put my camera up and take pictures of

1077
01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:05.360
the ridge just to see if maybe I could get

1078
01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:08.000
something like a shadow of something. I didn't, of course,

1079
01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:11.079
but I was just very it was very eerie. But

1080
01:06:11.119 --> 01:06:13.800
I do plan on going back and doing a nighttime

1081
01:06:14.599 --> 01:06:16.480
investigation with the right equipment.

1082
01:06:17.320 --> 01:06:21.400
That's awesome. What a fascinating conversation there's I would say

1083
01:06:22.239 --> 01:06:26.239
the last question that I'll ask you today, Kenny, and

1084
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:30.920
this is this is a hypothetical. So let's say your

1085
01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:35.239
viewpoint as an anthropologist. Let's say that an individual, we're

1086
01:06:35.320 --> 01:06:38.480
in a really active bigfoot area and then you stumble

1087
01:06:38.599 --> 01:06:43.760
upon something that looks like it's a tool making or

1088
01:06:43.880 --> 01:06:48.719
tool using station. There's picked ferns, there's piles of mud,

1089
01:06:48.840 --> 01:06:52.000
there's pieces of bark that are ripped off, there's a

1090
01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:55.840
handprint in the mud. Are there anything? What would you

1091
01:06:55.920 --> 01:07:00.239
recommend to do as an anthropologist in that situation and

1092
01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:02.119
to capture evidence.

1093
01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:06.920
If you come across any lithic technology, two things call

1094
01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:11.559
me no. No. One thing would be photograph it n C. Two.

1095
01:07:11.880 --> 01:07:16.079
Don't move anything. Photograph as much as you can as

1096
01:07:16.119 --> 01:07:21.719
it's placed. Then if you can do that and even

1097
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:25.480
measure the distances between what looks like a tool and

1098
01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:28.840
any other pile of rocks or anything that looks very suspicious,

1099
01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:34.800
do measurements. Photograph everything in place before you pick anything up.

1100
01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:38.519
Then if that's the case, I would be more than

1101
01:07:38.559 --> 01:07:43.039
willing to look at whatever's found and to see if

1102
01:07:43.079 --> 01:07:47.320
it's actually something that is been made by a human

1103
01:07:48.039 --> 01:07:52.440
or otherwise, because all indigenous peoples in these areas have

1104
01:07:52.599 --> 01:07:56.519
a tool technology, but usually it's not surface. So if

1105
01:07:56.559 --> 01:07:59.000
you're finding unusual things at the surface that look like

1106
01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:03.039
a tool, again, photograph everything as you find it in place,

1107
01:08:03.719 --> 01:08:06.079
we call it and seek you. Photograph it and seat

1108
01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:10.639
you and then measure to your best ability the art.

1109
01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:14.559
What's there. Put tap measures, but give it some scale.

1110
01:08:14.960 --> 01:08:16.600
If you have a tape measure, that's the best thing.

1111
01:08:16.640 --> 01:08:19.319
I tell everybody. Carry tape measure in your backpack, or

1112
01:08:19.319 --> 01:08:22.840
a ruler or a pack of cigarette something to give it,

1113
01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:27.039
or a pen something to give it scale. Measure everything

1114
01:08:27.079 --> 01:08:29.720
in relationship to one another. And if you do know

1115
01:08:29.800 --> 01:08:33.119
somebody a professional qualifications, call them and have them come out.

1116
01:08:33.479 --> 01:08:37.680
If you don't, it's better to gather the material then

1117
01:08:37.800 --> 01:08:41.319
lose it. So if you can gather it in plastic

1118
01:08:41.439 --> 01:08:46.520
bags or whatever you have, and then call somebody who

1119
01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:49.439
is credentialed to look at it. And like I said,

1120
01:08:49.840 --> 01:08:52.039
if anybody wants to contact me, if they do come

1121
01:08:52.079 --> 01:08:54.439
across this, I'd be more than happy is to look

1122
01:08:54.479 --> 01:08:56.960
at the photographs or even meet them in person and

1123
01:08:57.039 --> 01:08:59.039
look at the artifact in person.

1124
01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:04.079
That's really great advice, I think. So that actually leads

1125
01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:07.720
me into is there a way that people could reach

1126
01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:09.600
out to you if they had questions?

1127
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:12.920
Yeah, this I think. I'm I can give you my

1128
01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:15.479
I think I gave you my email address. Yeah, so

1129
01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:19.079
they can contact me via my email or I'm also

1130
01:09:19.119 --> 01:09:22.199
on Facebook. They can reach out to me on Facebook

1131
01:09:22.479 --> 01:09:25.199
through Messenger, or they can email me if you want

1132
01:09:25.239 --> 01:09:27.920
to put my email up. And I'd be happy to

1133
01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:31.680
talk to people about this. I'd like again, I'd like

1134
01:09:31.720 --> 01:09:33.600
I said, I would like to see much more work

1135
01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:39.520
done in evolutionary biology around theoretical modeling around sasquatch and

1136
01:09:39.600 --> 01:09:42.600
around what the differences are. Like I said, I'm currently

1137
01:09:42.640 --> 01:09:48.000
working on something around that right now, and so I

1138
01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:51.640
would like to actually get to maybe present that at

1139
01:09:51.680 --> 01:09:54.960
a conference at some point or publish it academically.

1140
01:09:57.079 --> 01:10:02.560
My goodness, this is just man. I love doing interviews.

1141
01:10:02.600 --> 01:10:07.640
Some of them are extremely fascinating in addition to some

1142
01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:11.479
great encounters, and this is one of those interviews I

1143
01:10:11.479 --> 01:10:13.680
think where it is just been a great one to

1144
01:10:13.760 --> 01:10:17.800
learn from. But also a highly engaging one as well

1145
01:10:17.840 --> 01:10:20.439
in my opinion. But Kenny, thank you so much for

1146
01:10:20.479 --> 01:10:23.359
coming on the show. Definitely keep me in the loop

1147
01:10:23.439 --> 01:10:25.680
with if you are able to one day get that

1148
01:10:25.760 --> 01:10:27.960
paper out, I would love to know about it and

1149
01:10:28.039 --> 01:10:29.319
so people can check that out.

1150
01:10:31.079 --> 01:10:34.279
Great. Thank you again for having me on Jeremia.

1151
01:10:36.600 --> 01:10:38.920
Before we wrap this episode, I want to say something

1152
01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:42.159
directly to a very specific group of listeners. If you're

1153
01:10:42.159 --> 01:10:45.960
in the military, any branch or forces, and if you've

1154
01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:48.800
seen something that no one can explain, or if you're

1155
01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:52.119
a National park ranger or forestry worker who's been told

1156
01:10:52.119 --> 01:10:55.560
to stay quiet, if you're a pilot who's seen something

1157
01:10:55.640 --> 01:10:58.600
strange down on the ground, or if you're with the

1158
01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:01.960
FBI a federal agent and see or working intelligence and

1159
01:11:02.000 --> 01:11:04.880
you stumbled upon something you're not allowed to talk about.

1160
01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:08.119
And if you're a firefighter, paramedic or search and rescue

1161
01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:12.039
responder who's heard screams or found tracks that didn't make sense.

1162
01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:15.960
If you're in the logging industry on a remote oil

1163
01:11:16.039 --> 01:11:19.199
field or a trucker with government contracts and you've had

1164
01:11:19.239 --> 01:11:22.880
something happen that you've never told a soul, And if

1165
01:11:22.880 --> 01:11:26.560
you're a biologist a wildlife specialist or a field researcher

1166
01:11:26.720 --> 01:11:30.359
under contract who has found evidence you're not allowed to report.

1167
01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:33.359
If you're a pastor, a missionary, or someone on a

1168
01:11:33.399 --> 01:11:36.880
spiritual retreat and you saw something that shook your faith,

1169
01:11:37.560 --> 01:11:40.680
or if you work in the shadows, CIA, NSA or

1170
01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:44.079
anything with clearance and you've seen what the public hasn't,

1171
01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:48.880
then I want to talk to you, even if it's anonymous.

1172
01:11:50.680 --> 01:11:54.239
You can reach me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com.

1173
01:11:54.640 --> 01:11:57.079
The world needs to hear what you've been forced to

1174
01:11:57.119 --> 01:12:02.880
carry alone, and you're not alone. You've got the story,

1175
01:12:03.439 --> 01:12:07.279
We've got the mic. See you in the woods. Thank

1176
01:12:07.279 --> 01:12:10.159
you for listening to this episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast.

1177
01:12:10.239 --> 01:12:12.640
Every encounter we share reminds us that the world is

1178
01:12:12.680 --> 01:12:15.840
bigger and stranger than we think, and that the truth

1179
01:12:15.880 --> 01:12:18.720
is often hiding just beyond the tree line. If you

1180
01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:21.560
enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the

1181
01:12:21.640 --> 01:12:23.920
channel on YouTube, hit the bell so you don't miss

1182
01:12:23.960 --> 01:12:26.399
the next episode, and share this with a friend who's

1183
01:12:26.399 --> 01:12:30.159
into mysteries, monsters, or the unexplained. And if you're listening

1184
01:12:30.199 --> 01:12:33.159
to us on Spotify or Apple podcast, please follow the

1185
01:12:33.199 --> 01:12:35.800
show there and leave us a five star positive review

1186
01:12:35.960 --> 01:12:40.199
because all that helps more people discover the show. And remember,

1187
01:12:40.199 --> 01:12:42.600
if you or someone you know has had a Bigfoot sighting,

1188
01:12:43.039 --> 01:12:45.600
please I'd love to hear from you, so email me

1189
01:12:45.640 --> 01:12:49.039
at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com and let's start

1190
01:12:49.039 --> 01:12:51.880
the conversation. If you haven't gotten a chance yet, check

1191
01:12:51.880 --> 01:12:56.239
out our membership community over at www dot Bigfoot societypodcast

1192
01:12:56.239 --> 01:12:59.359
dot com and that's where you can hear tomorrow's episode

1193
01:12:59.359 --> 01:13:04.199
today early in ad free and members only episodes every week. Also,

1194
01:13:04.279 --> 01:13:07.239
it's a place to connect with other people that are

1195
01:13:07.239 --> 01:13:10.079
into the Bigfoot subject as much as you are. Thanks

1196
01:13:10.119 --> 01:13:13.079
again for following along with the Bigfoot Society until next time,

1197
01:13:13.239 --> 01:13:15.920
Keep your eyes open, trust your gut, and never stop

1198
01:13:15.960 --> 01:13:18.159
asking what else might be out there? And see you

1199
01:13:18.159 --> 01:13:18.680
in the woods.