Sept. 29, 2025

Dr. Jeff Meldrum: A Life Focused on the Truth!

Dr. Jeff Meldrum: A Life Focused on the Truth!

Original released as Episode 66 on 3/22/21. What happens when a respected anatomy professor stumbles upon a trail of 15-inch tracks in the remote forests of Washington? In this powerful re-release episode, we honor the life and legacy of Dr. Jeff...

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Season 1

Original released as Episode 66 on 3/22/21.

What happens when a respected anatomy professor stumbles upon a trail of 15-inch tracks in the remote forests of Washington? In this powerful re-release episode, we honor the life and legacy of Dr. Jeff Meldrum, a pioneering Bigfoot researcher who dared to ask questions academia was too afraid to touch. Originally recorded in 2021, this conversation includes a never-before-heard member-exclusive segment where Dr. Meldrum reveals strange personal experiences, including a ghostly encounter in Wyoming and a mysterious night under the stars in Utah. From Bluff Creek to Idaho State, this episode covers Meldrum’s pivotal contributions to Sasquatch research, his love for Star Trek, and the moment that changed his life forever. Whether you’re a seasoned cryptid hunter or a skeptic, this episode will challenge what you thought you knew.

Online Scientific Journal - The Relict Hominid Inquiry
Dr. Meldrum's Facebook

Resources mentioned (affiliate links) By Dr. Meldrum:

Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science (book)(https://amzn.to/3s8Bi2o)
Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science (DVD) (https://amzn.to/3lyMJOq)
Sasquatch Field Guide (https://amzn.to/3tErNs4)
Sasquatch, Yeti and other Wildmen of the World (https://amzn.to/3c8g4vU)

Recommended by Dr. Meldrum:

Abominable Snowman: Legend Come to Life (https://amzn.to/3eDfTdC)
Do Abominable Snowmen of America Really Exist? (https://amzn.to/3feDLF1)
On the Track of the Sasquatch (https://amzn.to/3rchnOx)

Beginner Bigfoot Researcher Books recommended by Dr. Meldrum:

North America's Great Ape (https://amzn.to/3s8lMmV)
Know the Sasquatch/Bigfoot (https://amzn.to/3r6apuz)
Raincoast Sasquatch (https://amzn.to/3qNitQC)
Sasquatch: The Apes Among Us (https://amzn.to/314Upyw)
Big Foot-Prints(https://amzn.to/3eYvkgR) 

——Affiliate links mean I earn a commission from qualifying purchases. This helps support my channel at no additional cost to you.

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WEBVTT

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You're listening to Bigla Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In

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this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring

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you first hand encounters from people who say they've seen

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something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to

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quiet farms and crowded highways. The stories come from everywhere,

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and each one leaves us with more questions than answers.

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These are the voices of the people who've lived it.

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So settle in, because today you'll hear another account that

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just might change the way you see the woods forever.

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So stay with us. The following episode is a re

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release of an interview that I did with doctor Meldrum

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in twenty twenty one. Doctor Meldrim is an individual that

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will never be matched in this community. His love for people,

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in spreading knowledge of the subject and his patience is unmatched.

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We unfortunately lost doctor Meldrim too soon, much too soon.

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His last date with us was September tenth, twenty twenty five.

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If you've heard this interview, you still will want to listen,

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as the last part of it was a member's only

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section that many people never got to hear, especially back

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in twenty twenty one. In that I ask doctor Melgrim

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some questions he really was not used to answering, and

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he shares about some events of high strangeness that happened

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throughout his life. I hope you'll enjoy and that you

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will fondly remember the memories we have of doctor Melgram,

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and hopefully, through those memories, will be inspired yourself to

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teach this knowledge to the next generation that's coming up,

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and to be patient towards those that maybe don't have

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as much info as you quite yet. And together, maybe

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if we work together, we can get further in this subject. Enjoy.

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All right, thanks for coming back to the Bigfoot Society Podcast.

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I have the privilege of having doctor Jeff Meldrum with

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me today, so thank you so much for green to

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come on. Doctor. We're going to start out by reading

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through his bio from Idaho State, just so that everyone

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knows exactly what we are in for here. Doctor Jeff

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Meldrum is a full professor of anatomy and anthropology at

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Idaho State University since nineteen ninety three. He teaches human

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anatomy and the graduate Health Professions programs. His research encompasses

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questions of vertebrate evolutionary morphology, generally primary locomotive adaptions, more

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particularly and especially the emergence of modern human bipedalism. His

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co edited volume From biped to Strid, The Emergence of

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modern human walking, running, and Resource Transport, proposes a more

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recent innovation of modern striding gait than previously assumed. His

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interest in the footprints attributed to Sasquatch was peaked when

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he've examined a set of fifteen inch tracks in Washington

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in nineteen ninety six. Now his his lab house is

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well over three hundred foot printing cast attributed to this

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mystery primate. He conducts collaborative laboratory and field research throughout

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North America in the world such as China and Russia,

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and has spoken about his findings and numerous popular and

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professional publications, interviews, television and radio appearances, public and professional presentations.

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He's author of things such as the Sasquatch Legend Needs Science,

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which explores his and other scientists of evaluations of the

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contemporary evidence and also affords difference to tribal people's traditional

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knowledge of the subject. He also has published two field guides,

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one focusing on Sasquatch, the second casting the net more

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broadly to consider the potential of relictive hominoids around the world.

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And he's also editor in chief of the Skylar Journal,

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The Relic Hominoid Inquiry. That's a lot. That's a lot.

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It's probably the longest bio we've ever had.

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But yeah, you should have edited a little bit. But

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that's yeah.

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Yeah, what's your what's your favorite part? What are you

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most proud of in that bio?

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Oh? Gee, I haven't been asked that. That's a new question.

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That's hard. I'm terrible with favorites, favorite because there are

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pros and cons to every aspect of that there. I'm

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the type of person who's a generalist, maybe more so

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than than a singular specialist when I put really go

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all out into it and deeply into it. Don't mean

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to say that, but I'm the type that likes to

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follow where my curiosity and where opportunities present themselves, rather

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than force the circumstances to some preconceived program. And I've

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been criticized and complimented for that quality as an academic

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and as a person. But I think that I have

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pointed out some interesting aspects of the evolution of hominid

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Bie pedalism, some that have gone unacknowledged or unrecognized. Finally,

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after beating a drum for ten or fifteen years, you

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see people acknowledging and sighting and recognizing that. Maybe they

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don't come out and say it, but implicitly, maybe Meldrim

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was right after all, And with Bigfoot holding the door

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ajar By, if someone like me had not stepped into

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the lane and grabbed that baton from Grover Grants, I'm

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afraid the door would have really resoundingly slammed gut as

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far as the academic community went.

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I agree.

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So if I'm a voice of even the lone voice

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in the wilderness, I should point out too, now that

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I said that, that that may be just a matter

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of perception, that there's a lot of interaction I have

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with my colleagues and other academics both here in the

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state and around the world, who behind the scenes have

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a deep seated interest and curiosity about this question. But

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they're just not in a position, either because of their

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professional discipline or their research to pursue it, nor are

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they at liberty to pursue it openly. Gray haired retired

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types like I'm getting very close to who suddenly take

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on an apparent interest in satisfies. It's been there all

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the time, haven't been at liberty to discuss it openly

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in their academic circles.

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So yeah, I'll tell you it's extremely hard to interview

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scientists about bigfoot. I have a thing where I try,

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and I would say for every you get one yes

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for every fifteen nos. Because did people they want to

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keep their job to be honest.

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Sure, oh sure absolutely, And yeah it can have a

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it can have a very chilling impact, and especially for

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young academics, I sense a thawing of the attitude there.

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There are more more nods to the of relic commonoids.

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I can use the term and discuss with my colleagues

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the prospect of persistent species of hominin or eight under

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the auspices of relic commonoid. But as soon as the

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word sasquatch or especially bigfoot comes to the.

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Force shuts down. Yeah, I don't talk about that exactly.

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So it's but still there's about We're about a generation,

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not a generation about a decade away. I asked to

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me for generational shifts, I'm getting more and more interaction

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with young academics just getting their PhDs and the landing

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positions and so forth, who on the sly acknowledge that

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they are very interested or I keep in touch with me.

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You got to keep it until you have security. I mean,

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that's one of the reasons four tenure is to you

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with some academic freedom, that there isn't unjustified repercussion for

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pursuing a topic or a question which is not perceived

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by the consensus as acceptable. It's just interesting. I just

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served on a subcommittee for our Faculty Senate to reevaluate

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and rewrite our academic freedom policy on campus, and the

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committee member or the committee chair specifically asked me because

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of some of the experiences I've had on campus. And

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it was interesting because there was a point where one

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of the members, and I don't think it was an

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intentional I don't think she really realized the implication of

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the verbiage she had lifted from another document incorporated into

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her summary statement, but it made the statement to the

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essence that faculty had the response of ability because we

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had a responsibility of it. For academic freedom statement, faculty

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had the responsibility to convey content in their courses that

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was generally accepted by their discipline.

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Oh wow, it's crazy.

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Yeah, I said, that's just what we're talking about. Yeah,

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this isn't a progress in knowledge through consent, not a democracy.

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A very lively conversation about that, and she quickly acknowledged

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and recognized she just hadn't really read it that way,

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and if she sought from what she was perceived as

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being the other way that you have some then control

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over wild hairs on the fact that don't get off

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in the weeds. But hey, even that sometimes is a

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stimulating circumstance to have students engage in conversations even about

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topics that are that are a little bit out there.

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But anyway, that's it's an interesting dimension which certainly has

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impact on the way that this topic is perceived by

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the because doctor Krantz would say this scientific.

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Establishment fascinating, fascinating. Do you mind it? As my email said,

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do you mind if we talk about Star Trek for

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a bit? So I've heard this from multiple a few

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people and they're like, you got to talk to doctor

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Meltrim about Star Trek. I was like, he's a big

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Star Trek guy, and they're like, yeah, totally, And I'm like, hey,

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if he's up for it, that would be cool, and

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everyone listening to this is why are you kidding me?

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But it's okay, We'll get to the bigfoot stuff in

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a little bit. Just settled down. So what is Star

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Trek like? How do you define? What is this Star

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Trek thing?

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What is it for me? What is it to you? Yeah?

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In general? Oh, it was who didn't our generation that

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was the vehicle to get beyond the horizon, to imagine

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what it would be like explore strange new worlds, to

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seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go.

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I can remember Racing Home because they were in the

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reruns in the afternoon right about three thirty. It was

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like three thirty four, three or three or four to

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five before the news, And I remember racing Home before

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we went out to play. During that stretch, we would

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watch Star Trek. My brother and I would watch Star

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Trek so sure, and I've got my remastered original set

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on DVD. And I remember at a conference at dinner afterward,

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the conversation turned to just what was the basis of life?

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What was the boundary and the chemical basis? And I

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made some off the cuff remark about the horta and

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someone said, you know what the horta is.

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I'm guessing that's a big Star Trek reference, I know.

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And so they stared up and said, hey, everybody, doctor

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Beldred knows what a horda is.

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That's amazing.

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So anyway, yes, I think, as I mentioned to you,

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I was invited to here at Salt Lake City they

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had their first comic exactly, and they I was invited

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to give a talk, and so I tried to try

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to play to the audience a little bit and how

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can I how could I fold that in so that

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a cryptid had a little more solid position and it

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didn't take much. The connections could also satisfy not only

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Star Trek, but Star Wars. So I had I had

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some I did a remake of the cover of my

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book instead of instead of those Sasquatch eyes, I had

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to cut out, Oh you forge, you know, I had

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a crop image of Chewbacca's phase.

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Oh that's awesome, Yeah, totally.

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Prince instead of Sasquatch. And of course my topic, the theme,

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the whole Star Trek theme, was to seek out new

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life and still are corners of our globe that are

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unexplored or that need further exploration and new forms of

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life are being discovered, both on land and in the sea,

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and there's some parallel themes that zoology. So it was fun.

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It was well received by the by the audience.

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And that's awesome. What is your what's your favorite? So

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there's of course different series of Star Trek. Is there

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a favorite all that stands out to you?

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Oh, I've got to be I'm dedicated mostly to the

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original series, although although Star Trek Enterprise was I really

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liked the way they did that. I had hard time

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with the Next Generation the first season. Really I couldn't

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watch it. I still watch episodes from the first season.

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It took them a while for those characters to mature

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and get rid of a few that didn't belong on

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the bridge their behavior and personality and emotional profiles. But

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there were some that were really quite good. I'm not

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a cable TV person, so I've only seen a little

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bit of the Star Trek Discovery series, and again, it

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just it's always risky when you were weaned off of

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the original, then you can never get away entirely from

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comparing to those of relationships, and so there's always a

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little bit of disappointment sometimes, but it's so funny when

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you think about it, when you set aside the special

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effects and the spaceship, and it's still the plots all

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boiled down to just human relationships. It's all drama, and

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every once in a while there's an interesting twist. I

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was like the time travel paradoxes and things like that.

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I was just going to ask, do you have a

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favorite scene?

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Favorite scene? Actually, one of the most poignant where I

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think they really reached in deep into the emotional response

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is the episode where in Star Trek Next Generation. I

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think it was actually a two part where they encountered

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the Probe, which connected with Picard and the borg right.

237
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Pardon the borg right, No, not the Borga.

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It was a probe sent out from a civilization that

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was about to succumb to their okay, and he learned

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that's where he learned to play the recorder. Remember, and

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then after this he literally lived vicariously a second lifetime

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this experience. Then when they brought the probe on board

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and opened it up, here was a little case that

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had that recorder in it. And can you imagine what

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it would be like to live, to lie, to have

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to live an entire life and close it out. Yeah,

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and then suddenly wake up and realize you still have

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your own life to finish out.

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It'd be crazy.

250
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I just thought that was really quite an interesting point

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of ending as he retired back to his ready room

252
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with that recorder, and they reflected on that whole lifetime

253
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of experience that he'd had in a very vivid dream

254
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state that anyway, there's all kinds of things like that

255
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that are interesting.

256
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:50.759
Oh yeah, I always liked the scene in Star Trek

257
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six where it's like the President's about to get shot

258
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and they're like, oh, save the President, and they all

259
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rush inside and just at the last minute, Kurk jumps

260
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on them, and yeah, that's process. Yeah, so how do

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you make the Can you teach me? How do you

262
00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:06.919
make the Vulcan salute?

263
00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:09.840
Do you have a how do I make it? I mean,

264
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just you know, I like this.

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Nice, that's it.

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Yeah. I often end my emails with that. Now. After

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we started the lot's awesome, Live long and prosper was

268
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:24.559
a good wish in these times of uncertainty.

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Oh that's true, that's true. Greg from the Patreon. He

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so he's gonna call you out specifically where he asks

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if you had to choose Kirk or Picard. Who are

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you going to choose? Yeah?

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Yeah, Like I said, Picard really matured into his role,

274
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but I still would have to go with Kirk.

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I'm a purist, so yeah, makes sense.

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Although I think I think more often than not, I

277
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:55.679
relate more to the Spot character. When we had a

278
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pair a couple of a guy, a friend of mine

279
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:04.039
that I always seemed to hang out with, and and

280
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he was a little more bombastic than I was. I

281
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:09.319
was a little more intellectual, a little more reserved. Sure

282
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he was bombasting. He was a few inches shorter than me,

283
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So he struck me. It struck me even then that

284
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we looked like Kirk and Spot.

285
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Oh that's awesome.

286
00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:21.960
Yeah, yeah, So not that anyone ever recalled this that, But.

287
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All right, are you ready to get into some crazy

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bigfoot questions?

289
00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:30.480
Oh?

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Sure, you're ready for whatever it could be.

291
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All right.

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The first one is so my buddy Jonathan, you actually

293
00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:40.640
had shared a photo from him on Facebook like a

294
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.000
few days ago, but you got to look into this.

295
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.920
It was the is the photo where it's like a

296
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.759
gorilla next to Patty and he's can doctor Meldrum comment

297
00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:53.240
on Patty's right thigh possible herniation, a difference in hair.

298
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What do you think right there?

299
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.000
There was There's always been some attention drawn to some

300
00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:03.480
of the irregularities in surface of the apparent irregularities in

301
00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.160
the surface of the skin. And the explanations have varied

302
00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:11.759
from the interesting possibilities to the absolute ludicrous. That it

303
00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:14.720
is a pocket in a pair of waiters, and Hieronymous

304
00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:16.720
didn't take his car keys out of his pocket, and

305
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:17.599
that's what's bulging.

306
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That's Bob Heronymous, not Ta Peronymous for everyone. Yeah, there

307
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you go.

308
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:26.880
And of course it was actually Doug hi Tech who

309
00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:32.000
drew attention to what he thought could be a herniation,

310
00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:35.759
and I started doing a little looking into that and

311
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:40.039
being an anatomist, and discovered that indeed, there is this

312
00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:44.880
condition where the fascia lata in the lower extremity, especially

313
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.440
the deep fashion that encompasses the muscle compartments, is much thicker,

314
00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:53.920
it's stouter. It's a it's an adaptation to assist with

315
00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:58.319
creating intra compartmental pressure to help milk the venous blood

316
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:03.160
which is under low pressure stream against gravity to this heart.

317
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.400
That's way it has to go up three or four feet. Yeah,

318
00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:09.440
that's calm that's why we have the one way ban

319
00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:13.640
alls in our veins, that thick connective tissue sheet. It's

320
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:18.880
like support hose, but under the fat layer sometimes can

321
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:24.519
break down through disease tuberculosis can cause damage to connect

322
00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.079
a tissue, or through a traumatic injury, a penetrating wound.

323
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:30.960
And this was the funny thing I used to We

324
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:35.599
had a lecture in my Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy

325
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:40.279
gross anatomy course, and at the very end we had

326
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we used to have a lecture where we would spend

327
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a part of the class reviewing and then usually that

328
00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:48.920
would taper off, and I would then use the Patterson

329
00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.960
Gimblet film as a way to get them to think

330
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.599
about surface anatomy and muscle groups and so forth, and

331
00:19:55.839 --> 00:20:00.160
action relates to gait, and so I would show this

332
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.839
very high quality clip that was produced from the color

333
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:11.519
channel separation scanned images, which lent tremendous clarity to the result.

334
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:17.000
And then MK Davis had strung those individual frames together

335
00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:20.680
and stabilized them and played them, set them at the

336
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:23.480
proper film speed about sixteen to eighteen frames per second,

337
00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:26.839
and she was just memrizing to watch this loop. And

338
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I would project this up on the screen so that

339
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:33.039
it's not full size, but it's pretty big, and you

340
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:37.480
could watch the details, remarkable details. And I pointed out

341
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:42.079
this quadriceps herniation and this student raises her hand, Oh, oh,

342
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:45.480
she said, I have that. I said, well, she said, yeah,

343
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:47.599
I was years ago. I was bucked off the horse

344
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:49.160
and we were out in the brush and I was

345
00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:52.400
bucking horse and landed in a brush pile and had

346
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.480
this big stab wound in my thigh. And the fasci

347
00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:58.279
Lada never quite ill properly. And she happened to be

348
00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:00.680
wearing gym shorts because we go in the lab and

349
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:04.319
they wear their scrubs over over their clothes, and so

350
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.519
sometimes they wear athletic wear just they don't want their

351
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.680
nice clothes in there in the wet lab. But so

352
00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:13.279
she could demonstrate, she just she simply flexed her quads

353
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:15.799
when she was walking. She took a step forward like lunch,

354
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:20.799
and boom, this golf ball sized bulge half golf ball

355
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.519
pops up under the skin on her thigh. And then

356
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:27.359
when she slips right back in just exactly on the film.

357
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.640
In addition to that one singular bulge, there are other

358
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:38.000
sort of irregularities that people have rationalized must be just

359
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.680
a poor job at packing the padding under the clock

360
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.839
of the costume. It's interesting because a lot of the

361
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:50.079
lines and dimples and bumps that you see are at

362
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:55.640
find you can easily find correlates in human examples. And

363
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:58.160
that this is the paper that I've often referred to

364
00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:01.200
the readers to Bill mun and I did a paper

365
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:05.720
on the skin and adipose tissue as inferred from the

366
00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:09.759
person Gimlin film and and Bill had gone through and

367
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:13.720
called a number of pictures of just regular pictures a

368
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:17.440
regular people rather not models, but middle aged to upper

369
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:22.559
aged people that he actually gleaned from websites for naturists

370
00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:27.680
of the locations camps where people were walking around al

371
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:32.359
fresco and when there wasn't a lot of toned bodies

372
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:37.000
and life was sucked and you could see the normal

373
00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:41.079
wrinkles and dimples and grooves and so forth, muscle groups

374
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:46.279
and fatty areas and fascia, and the congruence is just remarkable.

375
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.960
Then I went through and called through just images on

376
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:53.480
the web of great apes, chimpanzees and gorillas particularly, and

377
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:58.839
showed similar patterns of the way the skin hangs on

378
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:03.200
the back in a bilaterally symmetrical way. And Bill had

379
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:07.000
shown that similar folds on a fur cloth suit. If

380
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.200
it's just like a pajama top, when there's a fold,

381
00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:13.039
it will often run all the way across the midline

382
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.720
to the other side, not have that great look where

383
00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:20.759
it's tacked down right. Its processes of the of the spine,

384
00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:23.799
and so that was quite I was quite intrigued when

385
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.680
someone posted that image with the red circle because it

386
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:32.799
showed some irregularities in the fatty tissue, or whether they

387
00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:37.079
were like pomas fatty tumors, or whether they were just

388
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:41.279
just the natural appearance of a little excess had a

389
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.119
post tissue on a gorilla in captivity. In the wild,

390
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:49.480
they often don't have the excess food available that they

391
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:53.680
can become obese that great apes in captivity can take

392
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:58.200
on or can become obese through their sedentary lifestyle and overeating,

393
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:01.039
and they lay on lay down fat s Q fat

394
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.440
just in the same pattern that humans do. Yeah, it's

395
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.279
just that you don't often see it in the wild. Wow,

396
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:12.480
just as you don't often see obesity in gatherer society.

397
00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:17.480
More the premium, it's important I think to not be

398
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.119
not have on the basis of a snap judgment. Say oh,

399
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:27.119
that's fake, But say what could explain these different appearing

400
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:34.000
aspects and when you consider them in concert with everything else,

401
00:24:35.079 --> 00:24:39.000
and there is an explanation that is absolutely biologically sound

402
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:44.319
and appropriate. To me, that's the more parsimonious explanation than

403
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:49.119
to concoct some scheme of somebody having created a costume

404
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:55.359
and incorporated compelling to experts in the field.

405
00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:58.640
Oh man, that's interesting answer.

406
00:24:58.640 --> 00:24:58.920
Thank you.

407
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:02.839
Thank you to John then Easily from Western Bigfoot Exploration

408
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:06.640
on Instagram for setting that in. Next up, this one

409
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:11.880
gets really intense. So yeah, get ready, So Josh, I

410
00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:12.279
glad you.

411
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:12.599
Josh.

412
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.920
She was from the Patreon. This is his question. If

413
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:20.519
multiple DNA samples collected from an area were to be

414
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:24.920
matched to one another to exclude the possibility of contamination,

415
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:30.079
present genetic markers that belong to the hominid line and

416
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:35.359
contain a clearly identifiable m DNA profile the species and

417
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:40.119
the homogenous would that be sufficient proof to genetically establish

418
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:43.559
an ichnospecies of the Homo genus.

419
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.319
Oh okay, Oh, that that's an easier question. I guess

420
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:50.079
to answer them. I thought he was going to get it.

421
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:53.359
It's a lot easier for you to answer it than

422
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:54.039
for me to read it.

423
00:25:54.279 --> 00:25:58.799
Yeah, when you mentioned the mitochondrial okay, okay, afiliating the

424
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:02.920
mitochondrial genome to a human a Homo sapiens, which is

425
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:07.559
part of the argument that Melba ketchum and her appearance

426
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:12.400
have proposed as evidence for hybridization to account for the

427
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:15.880
origin of sasquatch. And let me just say that their

428
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.759
I find no merit in those arguments or no credibility.

429
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:22.960
But boiling it down to the question is if we

430
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:25.880
just to say it in shorthand, if we found a

431
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:30.240
non human primate genome on the North American continent, would

432
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:34.640
that be sufficient? That is a question that is open. Still,

433
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:39.799
there is no precedent that I'm aware of acknowledging an

434
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:43.799
entirely novel species on the basis of DNA alone. Now,

435
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:48.359
DNA has been used to maybe segregate closely related species,

436
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:53.480
say from museum specimens, where someone notices some consistent distinctions

437
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:57.200
between two populations, and then so they go ahead and

438
00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.079
take a little snip off of the pelt of some

439
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:02.440
of those museum specimens and test them, and sure enough,

440
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:07.880
there's they discover that by their standards or criteria, there's

441
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:12.000
sufficient differentiation to call them different species or different subspecies

442
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:16.119
or whatever. There's a precedent for that. But those specimens exist.

443
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:19.960
The physical specimens are in museum drawers already, so that's different.

444
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:24.599
But there's a growing body of literature and discussion in

445
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:32.240
the professional literature about the notion of acknowledging a novel

446
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:37.400
species on the basis of a novel DNA sequence, especially

447
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:42.480
as it pertains in conservation situations to rare and endangered species,

448
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:47.000
and even more especially the as it applies to species

449
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:51.759
that have long life spans and social structures, that the

450
00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:56.000
taking of a life specimen may have a sick impact

451
00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:00.240
on the dynamics on the social dynamics of that group

452
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:05.559
and its survivability. Sure well, Bigfoot might be a interesting

453
00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:11.559
and interesting test case of that proposal on the basis

454
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:14.240
of DNA alone, But I tell you that there's just

455
00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:18.279
so much controversy surrounding this topic. At this point I

456
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:23.279
got reaction. My suspicion would be that short of a

457
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:28.079
physical specimen and a very significant specimen, either a corpse

458
00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:34.000
or a skull, that that acknowledgment won't be forthcoming Without

459
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:37.279
that conclusive piece of physical evidence.

460
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.480
It Actually that leads quite perfectly into the next one,

461
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.799
which you can probably guess what it is. Greg from

462
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:48.599
a Patreon order sixty six Star Wars podcast says, So,

463
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:51.480
what would you do if you came across the mortally

464
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:58.039
wounded sasquatch a mortally that's a tough that's a tough question.

465
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:00.680
Well, I'd probably sit down. I was in a position

466
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:04.599
to render assistance, I would perhaps then to try that.

467
00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:09.440
But when you're dealing with any animal, one that's potentially

468
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:15.759
eight feet twelve hundred pounds and it's wounded under any circumstances,

469
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:18.599
I think one would have to be very cautious. But

470
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.920
I actually wouldn't go home. I would wait until such

471
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:25.759
time as maybe the possibility of collecting the specimen.

472
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:29.279
If it was shortly gotcha, gotcha, it presents itself.

473
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:33.759
But yeah, no, I'd stay. These people who turn tail

474
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:37.920
and run home after an encounter, you have to wonder,

475
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.680
I can appreciate the impact that it has on people,

476
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:43.799
especially when you're alone. There's a different mentality when you're alone.

477
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:50.559
That's interesting. Yeah, that's a tough call. I think it

478
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:55.000
definitely comes down to how you view what bigfoot actually is.

479
00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:58.319
Personally put them looking at it as it is an

480
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:02.640
unknown grade ape in North America. But there's many different

481
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:05.039
ways to look at that, you know, right, yeah.

482
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:07.000
Sure, yeah. If that was what they were after to

483
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:10.720
make that distinct, that's a whole different conversation. And totally

484
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:13.920
let me just say, because so many viewers they pigeonhole

485
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:18.480
me and the label or not the label, but the

486
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.799
assertion that I think it's and I put this in

487
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:27.359
quotes or amphasis underline it just a grade A. First

488
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:30.960
of all, anyone who uses that expression has no appreciation

489
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:37.039
for the nature of grade as I spent time not

490
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:40.039
in the wild, but under circumstances where I could interact

491
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:44.000
to a great deal and closely interact with grade apes

492
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:47.839
and fully appreciate what a magnificent animal they are. I mean,

493
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:50.519
you can have some of those same experiences with your

494
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:55.240
your your dog, or your cat or your cockatoo. Will

495
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:58.880
you have long as a society underestimated I think the

496
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:01.720
intelligence and the gents, if you want to use that word,

497
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:08.160
the consciousness of animals. But but I've never pigeonholed. Yes,

498
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.000
I've used the term North American grade ape and so forth,

499
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:14.279
But as others have pointed out, while we don't really

500
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:18.000
consider ourselves great apes, we are homonoids. That's why I

501
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.680
like the word relic homonoid. But the term homonoid it

502
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:27.000
has two references. When Porshnev pointed the term, he used

503
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:32.599
the term hormonoid in the vernacular meaning man like, but

504
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.559
in a more precise taxonomic sense, it means a member

505
00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:40.640
of the superfamily hominoid Ea, which includes us and all

506
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:43.440
of the apes from the lesser to the great, the

507
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:49.440
gibbon and sea among and arrangue, gimps and gorillas and ourselves.

508
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:52.960
We're part of that superfamily. We're split off separately in

509
00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:56.880
the hominine in a tribe. We even share the same

510
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:01.000
AMENI day with the African apes. We're in the same family.

511
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:06.359
And it's splitting hairs. It's quibbling over something, getting the

512
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.920
horse before the cart before the horn. We can discuss

513
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:13.359
what it is after we've proved that it exists. There

514
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.559
you go, still had to do it beforehand. But you know,

515
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:19.920
what I'm suggesting is that the difference is just one

516
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.720
side of the fence. It's not a long ways away

517
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:25.279
from the fence. If it is on the hammin in side,

518
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:30.519
it's a very early offshoot, like a paranthropist, a robustne

519
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:35.119
or something like that, something that predated a consistent, sophisticated

520
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:39.200
stone tool culture that we can recognize in the archaeological record.

521
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:43.000
It's a significant brain size, and that even that has

522
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:47.160
been quibbled in the history of anthropology for a long time.

523
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:52.680
What was the cutoff for humanity? And Arthur one hundred

524
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:55.519
years ago put it at seven hundred and fifty ccs.

525
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:58.880
The robust Australia pithescenes come in there just about fifty

526
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:01.680
c sees bigger than a chimper gorilla at about five

527
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:05.079
hundred and fifty, So it's a couple hundred shy And

528
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:08.359
even when we start talking about absolute volume like that,

529
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:12.599
there's differences. There's differences that don't necessarily mean anything about

530
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:16.960
intelligence because they just have to do with relative body size. Sure,

531
00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:21.119
pigmies in Africa have a different cranial capacity than than

532
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:26.839
somebody's six foot six American football players. Maybe not. No,

533
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:27.640
I'm just kidding.

534
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:30.599
That's a whole different episode right there. But I get

535
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:34.119
what you're saying. There's so there is actually a there's

536
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:38.759
a rift in the cryptozoology community about you. So I

537
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:43.039
need you to pick aside. So there is one camp

538
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:47.960
that is mustache doctor Meldrum, and there's one camp that

539
00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:52.319
is beard doctor Meldrum. Which side the mustard right, that.

540
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:54.920
Must be newbies watching reruns there it is?

541
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:57.519
It's monster quest doctor Meldrum, isn't it.

542
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:01.119
Yeah, I'm afraid if boy, if I would recognize myself

543
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:04.759
YouTube videos where the dad cuts off his beard and

544
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:08.000
drops the towel and the baby starts crying. If I

545
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:12.039
saw myself in the mirror, I might start my chin.

546
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:14.000
It would have it will look like either my chin

547
00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:16.599
has melted into my neck, or I may discover that

548
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:18.559
I've actually got a couple extra chins that I.

549
00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:22.639
There you go, there you go? Yeah, and meet both.

550
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:24.719
Yeah. The one the one that I don't care for

551
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:26.599
though I probably shouldn't even say it, but is the

552
00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:30.400
question that the dark mustache. I've been called it. It

553
00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:33.400
looks like a cops mustache, which I don't mind so much.

554
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:36.159
But I've also been it's been suggested that I look

555
00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:41.639
like a particular porn star with that dark I wouldn't know.

556
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:44.800
I don't know where we can.

557
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:48.480
Yeah in the.

558
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:52.599
Wow cool You never know what people are going to

559
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:55.280
bring up right, that's right. You never know what is

560
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:57.360
what's the one thing you wish you had known when

561
00:34:57.400 --> 00:34:58.400
you started your career?

562
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.559
Oh gee, yeah, that's a tough one. I don't. As

563
00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:07.039
I look back, people often ask me if I would,

564
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:08.599
if I had it to do over, would do this?

565
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:11.440
And I mean I remember that there was literally that

566
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:15.039
that fork in the road. And it happened when I

567
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:19.599
was kneeling down looking at these fifteen inch tracks in

568
00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:23.480
the mud there and outside of all of Washington Nicks

569
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:28.119
and I had just come from doctor Krantz's office. This

570
00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:31.039
end of mine that was began as a youthful interest

571
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:36.440
had become quite latent, and it was only because of

572
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:40.199
a series of circumstances that it had risen to the

573
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:44.320
surface again. And I was involved in a documentary to

574
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:47.719
evaluate a piece of video footage which I had taken

575
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:50.719
on as just a fun exercise, like a little Sherlock

576
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:54.360
Holmes sleuthing the clues to and I thought i'd you

577
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:58.360
straightforward to point out the zipper and it wasn't and

578
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:00.760
that got the wheels turn into again. And I had

579
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:02.960
just visited I went up with my brother to visit

580
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:06.199
Grover Krantz, and so I was very keenly aware yeah

581
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:10.480
doctor's career and the impact that his interest in this

582
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:14.480
subject had of that. And he was admittedly a bit

583
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:16.920
of a maverick and a bit of a out there

584
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:21.000
thinker on several things, many of which likewise proved to

585
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:25.239
be quite prescient. Is some of his outlandish ideas, not

586
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:28.000
all of them, but you throw enough spitballs against the wall.

587
00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:34.519
But I can remember having that that that moment, that

588
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.880
of introspection, as I'm needing there looking at this and

589
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:40.719
thinking what do we do here? Do we go down

590
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:43.119
this road? And I've often described it was almost like

591
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:48.000
the little cartoon imp on each shoulder of you sure

592
00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:50.880
you want to do this, and the other one saying

593
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:52.760
how could you not? How could you? I wasn't really

594
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:56.159
a devil angel. It was just the two alternate realities

595
00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:59.920
exactly from this right now, and of course that one

596
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:02.519
one out, how could I walk away? I'm a scientist,

597
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:06.559
in my estimation, is the most compelling evidence I've ever

598
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:10.760
considered on the subject. And there were no if sands

599
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:13.400
or butts really about it. There was no unity, Let's

600
00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:15.719
put it that way. It was no middle ground. It

601
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:18.880
either was hoaxed or it wasn't. And I think I

602
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:23.599
have enough wherewithal and savvy and experience when it comes

603
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:27.519
to interpreting footprints. Given that's what I've spent an awful

604
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:29.039
lot of time and ensure.

605
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:36.239
So here we are, Wow, fascinating. What are the best

606
00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:42.440
resources that have helped you along? I guess you could

607
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:44.840
call it you bigfoot journey through your career.

608
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.440
Yeah, let's see you. Certainly you can't do what I

609
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:51.400
was able to do without funding.

610
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:53.800
And I didn't even think of that.

611
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:59.000
Yeah, the prospect of attracting extramural funding for this kind

612
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:01.440
of a project. And so I do owe a debt

613
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:06.599
of gratitude. There was a philanthropist to an interested person

614
00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:11.239
and who gave a very generous award that helped myself

615
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:14.840
and working at that time very closely with and consistently

616
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.679
with John Manzinski, a wild black biologist in Wyaoming, and

617
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:24.159
so it funded our research efforts to its significant degree.

618
00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:27.480
For quite some time. We were able to get night

619
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:32.599
vision monoculars, with camera equipment and the just the logistical

620
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:35.159
things that allowed us to spend long periods of time

621
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:38.440
out in the field. So I had the opportunity to

622
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:42.719
every summer to spend at least a month, sometimes a

623
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.920
whole month in one place researching and doing that. So

624
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:49.199
that was an important part. The other is just it's

625
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:52.559
I guess, well, that's hard to call. Some people in

626
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:54.599
the past, I think have made the mistake of being

627
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:59.599
entirely reactionary, and that is they wait by the phone

628
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:04.559
until someone reports aside and race out and chase it down.

629
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:08.039
And that's that. That is a strategy. I shouldn't be

630
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:10.679
critical of that, but I think it was important. I'm

631
00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:12.599
glad that I had the opportunity to get out and

632
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:18.679
do proactive research to look for things find them myself,

633
00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:22.639
and we had some successes. There have been opportunities to

634
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:26.119
find footprints in the field on several different occasions. I've

635
00:39:26.119 --> 00:39:29.519
heard vocalizations, I've had things visit or camp and stuff

636
00:39:29.559 --> 00:39:34.000
like that tense and so we've had those minor successes,

637
00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:37.519
but just not the not the real brass ring.

638
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:42.400
Yeah well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you think of maybe

639
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:46.239
a particular book that was very influential in as you

640
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.280
were coming up through the years that you really relied on.

641
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:54.119
Oh yeah, the first book I ever asked for as

642
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:59.679
a gift from Saranta. Yeah, Ivan Sanderson's almost no man

643
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:03.239
legend come to life, and I devoured that. I read

644
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:06.440
that multiple times as a kid, and was a pretty

645
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.880
young kid. I was probably sixth grade when I got it.

646
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:12.199
Read that through That's how I learned geography and was

647
00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:18.239
fascinated with maps and plotting things and understanding the terrain

648
00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:23.079
where the habitat for these absms as he referred to

649
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:26.920
them as acronym for a vomitable snowmen. And so it

650
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:32.280
was that certainly had probably significant influence. And then shortly

651
00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:34.480
on the heels, right about the same time, I guess,

652
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:37.760
because it would have been just before that I got

653
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:41.599
Roger Patterson's book. I had attended showing of the film

654
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:44.320
and Spokeanne in sixty eight and.

655
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:48.440
Wow, really book, right, oh man.

656
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:52.119
Then the third one, I think was the those first

657
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:55.199
three were really the significance was John Green's On the

658
00:40:55.239 --> 00:40:58.599
Track of the Sasquatch, because it turned out that my

659
00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:04.079
librarian at my elementary school was John Green's niece, and

660
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.360
she and spaking new copy of his book that he

661
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:10.000
had just sent down to her when I was doing

662
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:14.199
report on Sasquatch as a sixth grader while we did

663
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:18.079
our unit on primates, and she had his book and

664
00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:23.079
a whole filing clippings file with newspaper and magazine articles

665
00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:27.320
that she had accumulated because of her interests, her family's

666
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:32.159
interest in or her uncle's interests. And wow, so those three,

667
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:34.719
I think we're the We're the three and I still

668
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:36.199
have those. I still have those.

669
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.320
Oh you still have the original copies. Yeah, that's so cool.

670
00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:44.400
That is so cool. Wow, very cool. I can't imagine

671
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:50.920
like the synchronicity or the like related. Yeah, that's weird, man.

672
00:41:51.159 --> 00:41:54.039
I know it's crazy hindsight in hindsight, but I say

673
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:59.039
for anybody who ends up somewhere hindsight, it seems that

674
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:02.760
the stars will want if you step back and you

675
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:07.000
think about the circumstances that dictate which forks in the

676
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:11.480
road you select, it really is pretty amazing. And yeah,

677
00:42:11.559 --> 00:42:17.000
it's some of the circumstances and coincidences that happened are

678
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:22.719
really uncanny. And it's been an interesting right, no matter

679
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:27.079
what the outcome. Yeah. I always tell people that not

680
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:29.800
to expect to go out on a weekend and solve,

681
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:34.400
and that you need to cultivate and enjoyment of the process.

682
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.840
That is just as much an important part. That's why

683
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:42.360
I get a little disappointed. We were actually discussing the

684
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:46.599
possibility of doing something on television and how could it

685
00:42:46.679 --> 00:42:49.320
be done differently. And one of the conversations I was

686
00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:52.360
having with the producer was the people who were watching,

687
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:59.199
the real loyal audience. They're interested in the process. It's

688
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:02.400
a big joke that find but after what twelve seasons,

689
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:07.440
hasn't found Bigfoot? That's fine, but if you followed them, yeah,

690
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.000
you got to visit all of these different places. I

691
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:13.360
was here this morning actually was watching some old episodes

692
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:15.199
that I had not seen. As I said, I'm not

693
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:18.119
a cable guy, but since we've got our firestick plugged

694
00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:20.639
in and we subscribe to a couple of stations, I

695
00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:24.039
can catch up with it. And when they do that,

696
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:28.280
when they actually show you the process, it's interesting. It's

697
00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:31.559
disappointing when they gloss over the process. It was one

698
00:43:31.639 --> 00:43:33.880
episode and I won't mention who's doing what. But they

699
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:36.480
were in a cave and there were actually bones, there

700
00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:39.119
were deer bones probably, but they just oh, yeah, dear

701
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:41.159
when they walked on. That's the whole reason to be

702
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:44.119
in the cave is to look for remains. Look for

703
00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:48.679
that's where again Epithecus teeth were found when a porcupine

704
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:52.400
carried a jaw into a limestone cave, chewed it up

705
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:56.199
and the bits got fossilized in the limestone the alkaline environment.

706
00:43:57.519 --> 00:44:01.199
So that's what it's the process. Bring in ar and

707
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:03.320
they were mapping the inside the cave and that was

708
00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:06.639
quite interesting. But it's always superficial. They always splash these

709
00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:11.880
images that don't really convey anything except the impression of

710
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.559
what was done. And I was trying to impress the

711
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:17.880
producer that you need to do something that's more of

712
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:22.559
a documentary style rather than this sational where you build

713
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:26.079
up to the commercial break in the right. Oh man,

714
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:30.079
at tension is the only thing that you're apt for ratings,

715
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:32.880
I said, The ratings will follow. The ratings will follow

716
00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:34.840
if you give them meat on the bones.

717
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.440
But true, True'll see, Yeah, you'll have to. They did

718
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:41.639
a new special. There's actually a new Finding Bigfoot special

719
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:43.320
on Discovery Plus. You have to check it out.

720
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:45.320
It's been Expedition Bigfoot.

721
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:49.000
You no, Finding Bigfoot came back for special? Oh no,

722
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:51.840
I see on Discovery Plus. Yeah, it's pretty cool. They

723
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:55.039
go to West Virginia and stuff. Oh all right, okay,

724
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:58.199
what observations do you remember from seeing the film in

725
00:44:58.280 --> 00:44:59.960
sixty eight at that presentation.

726
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:04.840
Yeah, when I reflected back, it's see what you remember

727
00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:08.599
and what you don't remember. Not an impression even more

728
00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:11.760
than they make a memory. You have flashes of the

729
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:15.599
visual of course, when that when the Patty, if we

730
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:18.639
can call it, that goes walking across the screen larger

731
00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:23.119
than life. We were in that that gigantic projection screen,

732
00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:25.679
and I and my father and I and my brother

733
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:28.480
were on the third row, and so it was larger

734
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:31.639
than life walking across that and then it started open

735
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:34.159
the close ups and it was just amazing. The others

736
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:37.360
there were just bits and pieces that made impressions, but

737
00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:41.400
it was always that was the main impact. Mike Rugg

738
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:47.000
had come upon a copy of the theatrical release of

739
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:50.719
that film, that documentary, the Showcase, and he showed it

740
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:53.719
at one of his confidences that I spoke at. It

741
00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:56.480
was interesting because I didn't It was like, in some

742
00:45:56.559 --> 00:46:00.239
ways it was like seeing it anew because I'll though

743
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:02.800
that had such an impact on me. It was only

744
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.360
ten at the time, and there were a lot of

745
00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:08.039
parts of it that I didn't remember at all.

746
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:10.320
Interesting. That's interesting, But.

747
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:14.119
It was mostly the it was mostly that that film

748
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:15.119
clip seeing that.

749
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:19.679
Was the that's awesome. Yeah, what have been the what

750
00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:21.920
would you say the top three people that have been

751
00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:24.760
influential to you over the years are.

752
00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:29.920
Oh yeah, let's see, the list could have been longer.

753
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:32.880
Had some unfortunate interactions with a few people that were

754
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:38.480
extremely Yeah, we'll go stay with the positive ones. Yeah,

755
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:41.320
I'm just saying that it sometimes people don't realize the

756
00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:42.920
impact that they're having on someone.

757
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:45.360
That's a good lesson. Yeah, I think.

758
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:47.559
Yeah, this is a great story too. That the first

759
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:50.960
Doornity short story, the first doc tunity I had to

760
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:55.840
present some of my findings and conclusions, was based on

761
00:46:56.039 --> 00:46:58.639
the what became known as the Redwoods Video or the

762
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:03.199
Playmate video, also known as and that was up at

763
00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:07.840
Harrison Hot Springs. And I got up there and had

764
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.159
been told that the arrangements had been made. Of course,

765
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:12.800
arrangements had been made for my travel and so forth

766
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:16.320
being a speaker. And when I got to the front desk,

767
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:23.360
there was no room for me. Boke nothing, no cancelations,

768
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:26.719
no nothing. And so I jokingly said, hey, can I

769
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:29.239
at least camp on the beach down by the lake

770
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:32.880
and here on the lodge grounds, and I heard this

771
00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:36.280
voice from behind me says, don't be ridiculous, you're coming

772
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:39.280
home with me. I turned around and it was John Green,

773
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:45.199
whoa cool I just was starstruck. And so I got

774
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:48.960
to spend that entire weekend as his house guest, on

775
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:53.920
the downtime between conference sessions. And to boot his other

776
00:47:54.039 --> 00:47:58.679
house guest was none none other than John Bindernagel Wow

777
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:04.920
to the to the persona on a personal level. Then

778
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:07.639
to spend my evenings with those two, that's where we

779
00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:13.599
discovered that my librarian was his knees And he goes,

780
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:15.960
how did you? How do you know so much? Because

781
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:19.840
I had When at that age when I got interested

782
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:22.239
in a topic, I was a little bit obsessive and

783
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:25.840
really dug deep, as I said, even though my interests

784
00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:29.400
would bounce around, and so I had my own you know,

785
00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:32.239
it's the end. Also, in preparation for this report, I

786
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.159
did a lot of research, but I did lots of things.

787
00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:39.760
I in addition to clipping newspaper articles and finding magazines

788
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:43.280
and so forth, going looking on the microfilm at the library.

789
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:48.039
When the documentaries would come out, we'd wait until they

790
00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:50.000
came to the drive in theater and then we would

791
00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:53.519
record the soundtrack on a cassette record.

792
00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:55.159
Well, that's so cool, so you can listen.

793
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:57.320
Or even I even smuggled and I got a smaller

794
00:48:57.320 --> 00:48:59.679
when I'd smuggle it into the to the into the

795
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:01.840
movie theater and I would record those and then I

796
00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:04.039
would listen to them at night. I would all amazing

797
00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:08.079
into rock and roll music. But listening to that, he

798
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:11.400
always follows the Greeks stop track to the legend of

799
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:14.639
Boggy Creek and the creature of black Clay and so forth.

800
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:15.000
Wow.

801
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:19.559
Oh. We didn't have coffee machines, and so when I

802
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:21.679
would check out a book from the library with a

803
00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:25.039
passage about the bomb Snowman, I would sit my mom's

804
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:29.559
typewriter and with two fingers type out that transcribe that

805
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:33.840
section so I could so I would learn these things

806
00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:37.199
really thoroughly. So John was how he was very curious.

807
00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:38.960
And then I told him about doing this report and

808
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:41.599
that miss or the librarian. I couldn't remember he name.

809
00:49:41.639 --> 00:49:43.800
It just said librarian. And he said do you remember

810
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:46.599
her name? And I said no. He asked which school

811
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:49.719
it was, Indian Trail Elementary and Spokane, Washington. Do you

812
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:53.119
remember your library? No? I don't remember. It's been forty

813
00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:57.519
forty years, thirty years, twenty years back then. And he said,

814
00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:00.000
was it Mary Bessecer? And you know when someone said

815
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:05.679
and you remember the familiar? And he dropped and immediately

816
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:08.639
he said, that's my niece. And he reaches over and

817
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:11.519
he picks up the foot dials or number. Hey, Mary,

818
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:15.239
you'll never guess who's sitting across the table from you.

819
00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:18.199
Remember that little who was the first one to check

820
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:20.880
out your book? And she did, she remembered, So that

821
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:23.599
is so cool. It was just really amazing.

822
00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:26.719
Oh man, there's something I want to ask you about.

823
00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:29.639
I'm gonna I'm going to really put myself out there

824
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:32.480
because I can't verify what I'm about to ask. But

825
00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:34.360
we'll see if this is actually a thing. Okay, so

826
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:36.760
be nice if I'm totally off. But I think I

827
00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:40.360
remember hearing Danny Perez tell a story where there was

828
00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:42.480
a group of you that took a car down to

829
00:50:42.679 --> 00:50:45.840
the film site. Is that actually a thing? And it

830
00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:48.480
was like you and some other people.

831
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:53.320
The occasion was the dedication the grand opening of the

832
00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:56.719
new wing of the Willow Creek Museum.

833
00:50:57.039 --> 00:50:58.400
Okay, and in.

834
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:00.840
Concert with I think the conquer. It was held in

835
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:04.280
concert with them, or I may be conflating two events,

836
00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:08.159
but in any case, there was a conference at the

837
00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:13.880
Willow Creek Museum and it included a field trip, and

838
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:16.159
so I rode a bus down with one of the

839
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:20.239
groups and hooked back up with them. I got a

840
00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:24.480
nice portrait with me and Danny and Bob and the

841
00:51:24.519 --> 00:51:27.320
whole bunch of Dmitri Balyanov was there and so on.

842
00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:31.000
John Binder Nichol was in the picture, and we got

843
00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:34.119
to actually go down there, and I was right there

844
00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:38.400
at John's or Bob Gimlin's elbows. He and this was

845
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:42.480
his first opportunity to be back, so he was remembering

846
00:51:42.599 --> 00:51:46.440
back all those years place, and the place was overgrown

847
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:49.679
with alders when we were there. It was very different.

848
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:51.239
When he was there. There had been a couple of

849
00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:57.199
seasonal bloods, rather severe floods, that had showered the creek

850
00:51:57.280 --> 00:52:00.320
bed and opened up that sand bar, so you sea

851
00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:04.159
paddy walking across the open are All that sandbar had

852
00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:09.360
been overgrown with alders and it was pretty thickly vegetated.

853
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:14.039
So it was interesting to see him remember remember landmarks,

854
00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:17.039
big trees or walk out crops and so forth, and

855
00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:19.320
they were pretty sure that they were darn close to

856
00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:24.760
the spot. That was interesting to be there. I scooped

857
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:28.719
up a little sample of the sand Oh yeah, film canister,

858
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:31.760
both as a memento but also I actually when I

859
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:37.239
did the Ichno taxonomy and we named the footprints, I

860
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:41.320
had a colleague of mine who's a physical geologist, do

861
00:52:41.679 --> 00:52:47.480
a formal description of the geological and chemical characteristics of

862
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:50.320
the sand of the sandbar in which the tracks were made.

863
00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:54.920
When he made the call, he said, it's interesting because

864
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:58.239
the sand was not the granite kind of quart side

865
00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:01.719
type of sand. It was a very eroded shale and

866
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:06.639
very angular grains which when compacted when moist, really held

867
00:53:06.679 --> 00:53:10.559
their shape. And that's why the footprints were so clear

868
00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:13.599
and could be this is that went there even weeks,

869
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:16.599
if not months after the fact and still see the

870
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:21.039
trackway for seeding. It was, Yeah, it was quite interesting.

871
00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:24.559
That is really cool, as there's a ton like the

872
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:27.480
interest in Bigfoot right now is extremely high. I would

873
00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:29.079
say over the last few years, it just keeps getting

874
00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:34.400
grazier and crazier. If you're thinking about the current generation,

875
00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:40.960
even younger than I am, twenties eighteen around there what

876
00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:45.840
are what are the skills that the next generation really

877
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:51.239
needs to focus on in order to be effective bigfoot researchers.

878
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:55.639
There's so many facets to the research, and that's one

879
00:53:55.639 --> 00:53:59.840
of the challenges of appearing to be the only academic

880
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:02.159
seriously involved with it. Is one of the one of

881
00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:05.960
the hats I do down is ringmaster if you will,

882
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:08.320
do you want to call it a circus, It feels

883
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:12.039
like a circus sometimes, but trying to direct resources and

884
00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:17.159
personnel towards particular topics, or rather direct the topics to

885
00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:20.960
people who can have an impact on it, whether it's bioacoustics,

886
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:24.039
or whether it's DNA analysis, or whether it's hair analysis

887
00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:28.679
and so forth, and so in an individual researcher, if

888
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:32.119
they can certainly educate themselves in a variety of ways.

889
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:35.440
When I sometimes when I speak at conferences, we add

890
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:39.119
on some workshops. I've done this as a primary topic

891
00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:42.719
of presentation as well, just a footprints one oh one,

892
00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:46.559
oh wow, Yeah, what is it that we're looking at

893
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:50.119
and what's the nature of the dynamic signature of a

894
00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:57.840
footstep of a static foot Totally there's been a an

895
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:02.159
upsurge as well in MISSI identification of bear tracks for example,

896
00:55:02.599 --> 00:55:06.320
and interesting bear sightings bear photographs. I can go on

897
00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:09.960
fine and look for bigfoot photos, and I was for

898
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:14.119
this presentation I did on bears and bigfoot the similarities

899
00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:18.679
and differences, and I easily pulled out more than a

900
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:22.519
half a dozen examples that have been attributed photos that

901
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:25.079
have been attributed to sasquatch that are absolutely clearly bear.

902
00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:30.119
Prominent amongst those the Jacob's photo which has created all

903
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:33.159
kinds of heat and very little light in the conversations

904
00:55:33.199 --> 00:55:39.199
about it. But anyway, there are such tremendous resources available

905
00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:43.079
to someone online. I point out that being able to

906
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:46.199
differentiate a bear from a bigfoot it's really not rocket science.

907
00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:49.360
It does take a knack for noticing detail and so forth,

908
00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:53.360
but with a little effort, you too can do this

909
00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:57.719
at all. You can. Yeah, you can create your own atlas.

910
00:55:57.880 --> 00:56:02.639
You're a little of bigfoot track by just googling I'm sorry,

911
00:56:02.679 --> 00:56:05.239
bigfoot tracks, no bear tracks as far of the miss

912
00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:10.840
book bear tracks by googling bear tracks and put together

913
00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:13.239
and get familiar with the differences. Now you may need

914
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:17.480
someone to walk you through to really notice and recognize

915
00:56:17.559 --> 00:56:20.360
the distinctions, but it won't take you very long to

916
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:23.039
be able to tell the difference. And there's again also

917
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:27.719
some embarrassing situations where people who should have known better,

918
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:36.199
have whatever motivation, either naivete ignorance, or have attributed bigfoot

919
00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:39.960
or sasquatch status to what's obviously a bear print. So

920
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:43.000
that's one I tell people again, you pick out an

921
00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:46.039
area close to you a rule of thumb. Since we're

922
00:56:46.079 --> 00:56:49.039
talking about bears, there's been a very interesting paper published

923
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:54.800
that shows remarkable similarity in the estimated range of sasquatch

924
00:56:54.920 --> 00:56:59.480
with the known range of black bears, really various bioclimatic

925
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:03.400
factors and so on, and it makes sense. It's not

926
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:07.400
really because you've got too large on divorce and while

927
00:57:07.480 --> 00:57:13.639
they're preferred, resources certainly are distinct but overlap and anyway.

928
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:15.920
But the point is, so a rule of thumb is,

929
00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:18.719
I think, is a starting point. A reliable rule of

930
00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:22.480
thumb is are there black bear in your selected study area?

931
00:57:23.199 --> 00:57:26.400
If there's not, if there never have been, or they've

932
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:31.440
been extirpated because of population growth and development and expansion

933
00:57:31.559 --> 00:57:34.840
and impact hunting and so forth, then if a bear

934
00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:37.039
can't make a living in that spot, it's not very

935
00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:42.440
likely that a eight hundred or eight foot thousand pounds sasquatch.

936
00:57:42.519 --> 00:57:43.159
Yeah that's smart.

937
00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:47.199
Yeah, social unit could as well. But once you've got

938
00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:49.840
that narrowed down, then just get familiar with it. Instead

939
00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:52.679
of all over thinking thinking that the grass is always

940
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.760
greener on the other side, it's better to get familiar

941
00:57:55.800 --> 00:58:00.679
with an area that you can spend time. Man. Yeah,

942
00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:05.559
encounters are serendipitous by chance. People who so it's like

943
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:09.519
wintering at winning a lottery. It won't win unless you

944
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:13.039
buy a ticket. The more tickets you buy, so the

945
00:58:13.159 --> 00:58:15.880
more time you can spend in the field. That was

946
00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:20.920
one mistake I made early on in my efforts. I

947
00:58:21.079 --> 00:58:23.960
was trying to network with a lot of people to

948
00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:28.440
maximize the eyes and ears and hands and feet that

949
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:31.880
were employed in this effort. But in the process we

950
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:35.880
would spend an awful lot of time and resource traveling

951
00:58:36.119 --> 00:58:39.760
to these far flowng areas in the Pacific Northwest and

952
00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:43.480
so forth, and then realize that, hey, there are lots

953
00:58:43.480 --> 00:58:47.320
of reports right here in eastern Idaho and western Wyoming

954
00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:51.079
that we on and spend, like you said, spend more

955
00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:56.079
time weekends and so forth checking things out. And so

956
00:58:56.320 --> 00:58:59.599
that's what I encourage people to do is cultivate research

957
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:05.239
and familiarity with their own yard. If you will understand

958
00:59:05.719 --> 00:59:10.039
the animals, it's become a naturalists, become an amateur naturalist

959
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:11.199
and enjoy doing this.

960
00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:15.079
That is man, that alone right there, that is worth

961
00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:18.840
the price of listening to this podcast, which is zero.

962
00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:22.320
But that was amazing, Like, that's awesome answer, thank you.

963
00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:27.760
Is there a thing that you wish? So here's the

964
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:29.639
thing I found out about you. You do a lot

965
00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:31.760
of interviews, like, hats off to you. You are all

966
00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:34.480
over the place, like you really get a lot of stuff.

967
00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:37.320
Is there a thing that people never ask you that

968
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:39.320
they wish you wish that they would bring up?

969
00:59:39.440 --> 00:59:42.119
Or no, it's all over that. I try even when

970
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:45.159
I get the repeated strids, I try to put a

971
00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:50.960
different spin on it each time. But yeah, nice, it's

972
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:53.559
hard to know or hard to answer that. I can't

973
00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:57.320
think of specific things. Sometimes questions are very specific. Something's

974
00:59:57.480 --> 01:00:00.360
just happened. But the footprints that were found wound up

975
01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:05.440
in the British Columbia. The rams now online and this

976
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:10.079
set a footprint in the mud. So I responded on

977
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:14.440
Facebook and post someone shared it with me. Thankfully. People

978
01:00:14.519 --> 01:00:16.960
do send me things and sometimes I preface it with

979
01:00:17.239 --> 01:00:19.320
you probably already know about this, but I'll send you anyway,

980
01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:21.440
and oh, hey, I appreciate it. I don't have the

981
01:00:21.559 --> 01:00:24.639
time to sit there with bolts all the time. It's

982
01:00:24.760 --> 01:00:27.199
like I said, more eyes and ears sharing things that

983
01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:29.599
are going on. But this someone shared this with me

984
01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:31.599
and I took a look at it. In the first glance,

985
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:35.880
I was described as huge footprints, huge footprints that were

986
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:41.280
lopping eleven inches long, that's on the upper end of human,

987
01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:44.280
but not quite. And they were measuring to the outside

988
01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:48.280
of the extrusion of the footprint, and so instead of

989
01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:52.239
down inside where the actual footwidth was documented. It was

990
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.199
only four inches across, not six or seven inches across.

991
01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:59.599
And it had an arch. It had the human toad

992
01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:02.519
dis position, the big toe and then the little toes

993
01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:07.000
are much smaller pads that angle down and so forth.

994
01:01:07.079 --> 01:01:10.159
It was a very distinctive heel imprint. There's a great opportunity.

995
01:01:10.199 --> 01:01:12.039
What I try to do on my Facebook page is

996
01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:18.840
take those circumstances and bend them to a teaching opportunity

997
01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:22.519
and educate a little bit as well, And not to

998
01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:26.519
put down anyone or anything, but to educate what.

999
01:01:26.599 --> 01:01:29.239
Are the top books that someone just getting into Bigfoot

1000
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:32.280
should get on Amazon, like today.

1001
01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:34.360
Yep, you got to get Sasquatch, Leisure, Meade Science, I

1002
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:38.079
mean at number one, right, that's the thing, right, And

1003
01:01:38.199 --> 01:01:40.320
then I'll put a plug in for my field guide

1004
01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:42.519
that has turned out to be a real useful little

1005
01:01:42.599 --> 01:01:48.000
tool because totally sad and not only for more experienced

1006
01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:53.000
seasoned outdoors enthusiast who get into this, but it's been

1007
01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:57.000
a great tool for kids as well. Yeah, fun too,

1008
01:01:57.159 --> 01:01:59.320
so that when kids go out in the forest, they're

1009
01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:04.840
looking for and they're asking questions about footprints and nests

1010
01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:08.599
and different things that they find. So I always enjoyed

1011
01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:12.079
that kind of feedback other books. It depends on what

1012
01:02:12.159 --> 01:02:14.079
you're trying to do. If you're trying to really get

1013
01:02:14.119 --> 01:02:20.239
a sense of what I believe Sasquatch. His books like

1014
01:02:20.599 --> 01:02:24.119
John binder Nagels Orth America's Great Ape to Sasquatch is great,

1015
01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:27.480
Robert Howe's Rainco Sasquatch is great.

1016
01:02:27.639 --> 01:02:28.159
Oh yeah.

1017
01:02:28.719 --> 01:02:33.280
From a historical perspective, Chris Murphy has done a fantastic

1018
01:02:33.400 --> 01:02:36.440
job with his Meet the Sasquatch and Know the Sasquatch.

1019
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:39.559
I have a very visual learner and a book that's

1020
01:02:39.639 --> 01:02:44.960
replete with all these historical photographs. Photographs is just an

1021
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:49.119
amazing treasure trove of information. Of course, the classics like

1022
01:02:49.400 --> 01:02:53.360
John Green's his trilogy, plus then the Apes among Us

1023
01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:57.679
is a really a mustery. I think Sanderson's is a classic.

1024
01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:01.280
It's one that you have to read to say that

1025
01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:03.280
you've read it, and you'll still gain a lot. And

1026
01:03:03.400 --> 01:03:07.519
he's got so many such an archive of accounts. To

1027
01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:10.119
the extent they're reliable. There's always a question about the

1028
01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:13.840
reliability of some of those anecdotal reports, but but there

1029
01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:16.599
are things, there are problems. Grover Krantz's book is still

1030
01:03:16.639 --> 01:03:21.440
great introduction to footprints as well. I've really stood on

1031
01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:26.599
Grover's shoulders in many ways, many many aspects, and was

1032
01:03:26.679 --> 01:03:30.519
able to push forward and I think correct tweak a

1033
01:03:30.559 --> 01:03:34.119
few misconceptions that he had. His specialty was he was

1034
01:03:34.280 --> 01:03:37.440
a very accomplished anatomist and physical anthropologist, but he wasn't

1035
01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:41.199
a specialist in footprints, and so we had some enlightening

1036
01:03:41.519 --> 01:03:46.119
conversations about the Bossburg tracks and about the mid Tarsal

1037
01:03:46.599 --> 01:03:51.400
break and so on. Boy the list though, yeah, that's

1038
01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:51.960
a good start.

1039
01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:55.079
I have a few topics and I'm curious what your

1040
01:03:55.159 --> 01:03:59.039
snap reactions to them are. All Right, here we go, Mothman.

1041
01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:04.400
Oh, it's curious. I don't have enough information, enough personal

1042
01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:09.719
study to have a informed opinion. Okay, I don't equate

1043
01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:14.679
those types of paranormal phenomenon with what I'm taking to gotcha,

1044
01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:18.000
whether it's biological species behind the legend of Sasquatch?

1045
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:22.280
Okay, cool? Van meter visitor? You ever heard of it? Ooh,

1046
01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:25.800
it's an Iowa cryptid called the van meter visitor. Have

1047
01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:26.480
you ever heard of it?

1048
01:04:26.679 --> 01:04:27.400
I've never heard of that.

1049
01:04:27.519 --> 01:04:29.239
It's cool. You should check it out. You should check

1050
01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:32.880
it out. Okay, it's like this, like wings pterodactyl terrorized

1051
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:35.159
a town in the eighteen hundreds. It's pretty cool. I

1052
01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:38.000
always bring it up. Anyways, the nineteen seventy six movie

1053
01:04:38.079 --> 01:04:41.480
In Search of Bigfoot. Any thoughts sure that.

1054
01:04:41.639 --> 01:04:43.679
Was the one with Leonard Neimoy? Was that with Leonard

1055
01:04:43.719 --> 01:04:45.559
Nimoy or was that with Peter Graves?

1056
01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:49.960
I usually focus on Robert W. Morgan, but Nonemoy's in that.

1057
01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:52.320
I'm pretty sure Niemoy was the host. Yeah, you know,

1058
01:04:52.440 --> 01:04:55.840
and Peter Graves was Mysterious Monsters. That was also a

1059
01:04:55.880 --> 01:05:01.440
great movie. But yeah. Have again, the impact was more

1060
01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:04.760
substantial now than my recollection of the detail. Gotcha, I

1061
01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:08.159
had Peter Graves or the book that was spawned from

1062
01:05:08.199 --> 01:05:12.440
Mysterious Monsters the documentary. Oh cool, those images are a

1063
01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:14.480
little more reinforced.

1064
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:17.519
Yeah. Now, I like In Search of Bigfoot and also

1065
01:05:17.599 --> 01:05:20.519
the In Search of series. Does I know they're separate,

1066
01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:21.519
but I like both of them.

1067
01:05:21.719 --> 01:05:24.760
Hey there's another Star Trek connection. I've been true.

1068
01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:25.679
That's true.

1069
01:05:25.719 --> 01:05:28.840
I've been introduced by Leonard Nimoy and Jonathan Frakes.

1070
01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:34.159
Oh have you really? That's awesome, that's so cool. Eight

1071
01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:35.000
Canyon attack?

1072
01:05:37.039 --> 01:05:40.480
Eight canyon attacks? Is that the story or the.

1073
01:05:41.079 --> 01:05:42.800
Story in nineteen twenty four had?

1074
01:05:43.159 --> 01:05:47.599
Sure? Oh? Yes, again. It's it's an interesting how much

1075
01:05:47.719 --> 01:05:51.519
is historical and how much is historical embellishment. I think

1076
01:05:51.559 --> 01:05:54.159
it very likely when you went through a lot of

1077
01:05:54.239 --> 01:05:57.480
the some of the chaff, that something occurred and that

1078
01:05:57.599 --> 01:06:02.639
they did have encounters. Why not? Area is prime country,

1079
01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:05.800
and so I don't know what motivation they would have.

1080
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:09.119
And I can understand motivation of somebody to prank them

1081
01:06:09.239 --> 01:06:12.800
potentially to scare them off a claim, or to afford

1082
01:06:12.880 --> 01:06:16.079
their efforts or something like that, But why those individuals

1083
01:06:16.239 --> 01:06:21.679
would claim such things and precipitate such ridicule on themselves

1084
01:06:21.760 --> 01:06:23.639
at that time. At that time, it was still pretty

1085
01:06:23.679 --> 01:06:24.719
risky business.

1086
01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:28.559
To Yeah, and it's so far out there too, it'd

1087
01:06:28.599 --> 01:06:30.480
be hard to go out and prank them. But yeah,

1088
01:06:30.519 --> 01:06:33.719
it's such a classic bigfoot story historically.

1089
01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:39.159
The air sounds fascinating. I again, I have had the

1090
01:06:39.199 --> 01:06:42.760
opportunity to get very well acquainted with Ron moorehead and

1091
01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:47.119
understand him, and I have There's just a couple of

1092
01:06:47.239 --> 01:06:50.800
reservations that I have, and the one that still hitches.

1093
01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:57.480
There's two two. One is the footprints associated with the circumstances.

1094
01:06:57.960 --> 01:06:58.480
Interesting.

1095
01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:03.599
The footprints are not satisfying, okay, in that they just

1096
01:07:03.679 --> 01:07:06.719
aren't anatomically very satisfying, is what I mean. They're very

1097
01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:09.679
wet shaped. You cannot tell whether you're looking at a

1098
01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:14.920
right or left foot. They're bi latterly symmetrical toes straight

1099
01:07:14.960 --> 01:07:19.199
across the end. There's no toe angle, there's no differential size.

1100
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:23.559
There's no nice big rounded heel, at least in the

1101
01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:26.360
examples that I've seen, And I can't say if that's

1102
01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:30.400
exhaustive or not sure. The only thing is I find

1103
01:07:30.440 --> 01:07:33.280
the vocalization is really interesting. I'm especially intrigued by the

1104
01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:37.199
whistles because there, even to my ear, there was the

1105
01:07:37.360 --> 01:07:40.719
sense of a harmonic as if there was an overtone

1106
01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:46.400
being created by the modulation of the fairynx. That ties

1107
01:07:46.519 --> 01:07:51.840
into the potential of extra laryngeal air sacks and also

1108
01:07:51.880 --> 01:07:54.480
associate with that the production of infrasound, which I think

1109
01:07:54.559 --> 01:07:59.599
is a fascinating totally but nevertheless, but I don't think

1110
01:07:59.679 --> 01:08:02.920
I'm not I stopped short of acknowledging that there's evidence

1111
01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:08.079
of language. Okay, had some interesting discussions with Scott and Nelson.

1112
01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:11.400
I still hope we can continue those, but he hasn't

1113
01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:15.000
convinced me of all of the conclusions that he's drawn

1114
01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:18.880
from those vocalizations. Totally hoping we can get some more

1115
01:08:18.920 --> 01:08:23.000
involvement with that. I keep pushing him to write up

1116
01:08:23.079 --> 01:08:25.560
some of his findings and to submit him to the

1117
01:08:26.079 --> 01:08:31.319
Relic Hominoid Inquiry. There's another listeners should avail themselves out

1118
01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:35.359
is my online journal that I edit, and if we

1119
01:08:35.439 --> 01:08:40.239
could get those out and involve some other linguists commenting

1120
01:08:40.399 --> 01:08:42.800
and dialoguing on that, I think that would be very productively,

1121
01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:43.760
very fascinating.

1122
01:08:44.279 --> 01:08:47.439
Yeah, there's such the info on that journal is so cool.

1123
01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:50.960
I had interviewed doctor Haskellhart due to an article he

1124
01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:52.079
has up. There's very cool.

1125
01:08:52.600 --> 01:08:52.800
Yeah.

1126
01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:56.760
But last, but not least so last one is have

1127
01:08:56.840 --> 01:08:58.119
you ever heard of Skinwalker Ranch?

1128
01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:01.720
I have, I've read a little bit. I've had a

1129
01:09:01.760 --> 01:09:04.600
lot of people send me stuff about it. I watched

1130
01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:07.159
a little bit of it on the TV in one

1131
01:09:07.199 --> 01:09:13.960
of the documentaries. Not impressed. Just not don't I've any time.

1132
01:09:14.279 --> 01:09:19.920
I don't dismiss paranormal phenomena. I have just not personally

1133
01:09:19.960 --> 01:09:23.199
experienced any of the things that are being asserted. Sure

1134
01:09:23.359 --> 01:09:27.600
that occur on Skinwalker Ranch, and whenever i'm there present

1135
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:35.079
nothing happens. Or when someone produces documentation of their experience.

1136
01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:38.079
For example, there was a man who was just trying

1137
01:09:38.119 --> 01:09:40.479
to convince me that he had been seeing orbs of

1138
01:09:40.600 --> 01:09:44.920
light taking pictures. Yes, of course I've taken pictures. There.

1139
01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:48.279
We go, send me the best example you have of orbs.

1140
01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:51.560
So he posted the picture, sent me an email picture.

1141
01:09:51.880 --> 01:09:56.159
It was a flash photo taken at night all and

1142
01:09:56.800 --> 01:09:59.680
comes straight down and he goes, look there's orbs everywhere.

1143
01:10:00.039 --> 01:10:02.399
So yeah, those pollen grains. I've been out there. I've

1144
01:10:02.399 --> 01:10:05.479
been we were a couple of summers ago in Colorado

1145
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:09.439
when the big Ponderosa pines were pollinating. That pollen ends

1146
01:10:09.520 --> 01:10:12.800
up being inches thick because it blows around on the ground,

1147
01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:16.920
but as it's flying, you turn on your headlight, you

1148
01:10:17.079 --> 01:10:19.520
go back to your tent, and you couldn't hardly see.

1149
01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:20.640
It was like you were in a blizzard.

1150
01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:21.560
Oh man.

1151
01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:23.960
People are interpreting things like that as orbs of light.

1152
01:10:24.119 --> 01:10:28.399
So same thing with Skinwalker Ranch. I'd love to be

1153
01:10:29.279 --> 01:10:32.479
proven wrong. I think it'd be fascinating to explore some

1154
01:10:32.600 --> 01:10:36.279
of those phenomenon, but so far, no one's ever provided

1155
01:10:36.279 --> 01:10:36.680
the pudding.

1156
01:10:37.439 --> 01:10:39.680
Just to clarify because I know a few people are

1157
01:10:39.760 --> 01:10:43.640
going to ask this, So have you It sounded like

1158
01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:46.640
you'd been there, but I'm thinking you have it, Okay.

1159
01:10:46.760 --> 01:10:48.800
I just want to clear that I've actually been there.

1160
01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:49.359
Okay. Cool.

1161
01:10:51.079 --> 01:10:53.960
I've been to some locations or sites where people have

1162
01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:58.479
had claimed, have had silver and so forth. Gotcha, gotcha,

1163
01:10:58.720 --> 01:11:00.359
I'm a stick in the mud. I guess I'm the

1164
01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:01.399
party pooper.

1165
01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:04.199
That's all right. You're busy enough with all the bigfoot stuff,

1166
01:11:04.239 --> 01:11:07.800
so we want you to focus on that. Oh man,

1167
01:11:08.119 --> 01:11:10.600
Doctor Meldrum, this has been like super fun thank you

1168
01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:13.600
so much for hanging out. I remember when I first

1169
01:11:13.840 --> 01:11:16.880
approached you about this. Are you still okay with staying

1170
01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:20.760
a few minutes on after the episode. Oh yes, sure,

1171
01:11:20.840 --> 01:11:24.359
that's fine. Perfect. Sorry about not checking with that earlier on.

1172
01:11:24.680 --> 01:11:27.960
But yeah, remind the listeners how they can best follow

1173
01:11:28.399 --> 01:11:28.840
your work.

1174
01:11:28.960 --> 01:11:32.039
Yeah. I don't have a web page, per se. I

1175
01:11:32.119 --> 01:11:34.319
do have a face page and I try to post.

1176
01:11:34.359 --> 01:11:37.520
There are sometimes some lapses, so my Facebook page which

1177
01:11:37.560 --> 01:11:41.279
is under my full name Don Jeffrey Meldrum. Okay. But

1178
01:11:41.399 --> 01:11:45.399
also I would again highly recommend checking out the Reliccommanoid

1179
01:11:45.520 --> 01:11:51.800
Inquiry definitely at www dot isu dot edu. So my

1180
01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:57.199
university I SU dot edu, forward splash r hi, or

1181
01:11:57.239 --> 01:12:00.119
if you just google Relic Hoomanoid Inquiry you'll find it.

1182
01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:03.279
And we're in our tenth year now, so we've got

1183
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:08.560
accumulating quite a number of interesting articles, some research papers,

1184
01:12:09.199 --> 01:12:15.039
some great historical translations, transcriptions of Marria Jing, Kaufman's paper,

1185
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:19.920
Moginer's paper from Mongolia, his writings, and so forth. There's

1186
01:12:19.960 --> 01:12:22.520
some great book reviews. Again, and the book reviews not

1187
01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:26.319
their essay style book reviews, so they're really media, not

1188
01:12:26.600 --> 01:12:29.680
just this book was published and it has two hundred

1189
01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:32.920
pages and three figures in the table of content it goes.

1190
01:12:33.039 --> 01:12:36.359
They go deep into the topic and oftentimes actually have

1191
01:12:36.880 --> 01:12:37.760
responses from the.

1192
01:12:37.800 --> 01:12:40.840
Authors to the Oh that's cool. Yeah, totally.

1193
01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:42.479
So we try to get a lot of comments and

1194
01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:44.800
dialogue going back and forth. But that's a great way

1195
01:12:44.880 --> 01:12:47.239
to see some really interesting stuff.

1196
01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:48.600
Awesome. We thank you.

1197
01:12:49.640 --> 01:12:51.039
It's been reviewed peer reviewed.

1198
01:12:52.000 --> 01:12:54.680
Very good, very Thank you again so much for coming

1199
01:12:54.760 --> 01:12:57.640
on tonight, doctor Meldrum, and thank you again to all

1200
01:12:57.680 --> 01:13:00.640
the listeners for hanging out with us. I think I

1201
01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:02.800
already know the answer is the first one. I'm guessing.

1202
01:13:02.960 --> 01:13:04.600
So no UFO or ghost stories.

1203
01:13:06.640 --> 01:13:09.960
I actually have a UFO story. Oh you do, okay, Yeah,

1204
01:13:10.479 --> 01:13:13.079
and I actually have an interesting ghost story too, Oh okay,

1205
01:13:13.159 --> 01:13:15.880
all right, yeah, if you want to do that my us.

1206
01:13:16.880 --> 01:13:20.680
It's not very dramatic, but it was. I was on

1207
01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:24.239
a date and we were stargazing, literally stargazing and the

1208
01:13:24.319 --> 01:13:27.359
person getting quainted. But we were on YU campus in

1209
01:13:27.520 --> 01:13:31.520
Utah and okay, out by the clock tower and watching

1210
01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:34.920
the sky. And as a kid, we often had most

1211
01:13:34.960 --> 01:13:39.079
of the homes in my neighborhood had sun decks, and

1212
01:13:39.359 --> 01:13:42.319
so we would often have slumber parties, the kids in

1213
01:13:42.399 --> 01:13:45.239
the neighbor the kids on our street, about thirty nine

1214
01:13:45.359 --> 01:13:49.359
kids in K through twelve on our street, lots of families.

1215
01:13:49.760 --> 01:13:52.600
But so we oftentimes had these summer slumber parties and

1216
01:13:52.800 --> 01:13:54.920
just wall the wall, sleeping bags on the deck, and

1217
01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:57.920
we'd be watching the stars and pointing out constellations, and

1218
01:13:58.079 --> 01:14:01.880
of course watching for satellites or shooting stars and this.

1219
01:14:02.199 --> 01:14:04.239
So I was very familiar with what a satellite looks

1220
01:14:04.279 --> 01:14:07.359
like when it's dejects, and all of a sudden we

1221
01:14:07.439 --> 01:14:11.239
saw something. Instead of an oblique trajectory from northwest to

1222
01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:14.960
southwest or something like that, this thing was moving in

1223
01:14:15.079 --> 01:14:18.560
a similar fashion, but moving due from north to south,

1224
01:14:18.760 --> 01:14:22.199
just straight as narrow. And that wasn't that unusual, except

1225
01:14:23.079 --> 01:14:25.079
that once it got right over the top of us,

1226
01:14:25.279 --> 01:14:27.479
and it was just a little spot of light it

1227
01:14:27.680 --> 01:14:32.119
made it executed two right angle turns, just as sharp

1228
01:14:32.159 --> 01:14:34.680
as if you had a square up there. This man

1229
01:14:35.600 --> 01:14:37.640
and I'm watching that for a second, and I turned

1230
01:14:37.680 --> 01:14:39.560
and I looked at my date and I don't even remember, Nate,

1231
01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:42.079
did you see that? She said, yeah, have you ever

1232
01:14:42.119 --> 01:14:44.119
seen anything do that? And no, I have never. How

1233
01:14:44.199 --> 01:14:46.000
could anything actually do that.

1234
01:14:46.119 --> 01:14:48.199
So that was the one that's crazy.

1235
01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:52.920
The other one happened. It was the ghost story happened

1236
01:14:53.000 --> 01:14:58.000
up at in Wyoming at John Manzinski's place. John and

1237
01:14:58.079 --> 01:14:59.800
I have spent a lot of time together. And I

1238
01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:02.560
was up there and he has a cabin that he

1239
01:15:02.600 --> 01:15:05.359
built himself and has a little guest cabin for people

1240
01:15:05.439 --> 01:15:07.479
that visit. It's just one hundred one hundred and fifty

1241
01:15:07.520 --> 01:15:11.159
yards down this trail separated from his cabin, and it's

1242
01:15:11.439 --> 01:15:14.760
just a little one room. And I was in there

1243
01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:20.600
and during the night I something woke me up, or

1244
01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:22.720
I became aware of something in the room. I thought,

1245
01:15:23.239 --> 01:15:28.359
now I don't have great vision. I'm twenty two thousand something. Legally,

1246
01:15:28.760 --> 01:15:31.560
I thought my contact lenses were going wow. So at

1247
01:15:31.640 --> 01:15:34.079
night I still see, but at night my vision is

1248
01:15:34.159 --> 01:15:37.560
compromised in my classroom, right where I put them. Then

1249
01:15:37.640 --> 01:15:42.039
I'm in trouble. But I rolled over and and this

1250
01:15:42.239 --> 01:15:45.720
cabin has these huge picture windows around the almost all

1251
01:15:45.720 --> 01:15:47.720
the way around on three of the four walls have

1252
01:15:47.880 --> 01:15:51.319
huge picture windows with no curtains or drapes, and it's

1253
01:15:51.479 --> 01:15:55.159
pretty dark, but the little ambient starlights coming in and

1254
01:15:55.439 --> 01:15:58.039
standing next to my bed, he brought up moth Man.

1255
01:15:58.479 --> 01:16:03.359
This almost looked like man. It was this sort of

1256
01:16:03.520 --> 01:16:11.079
ambiguous looking rounded shape with these two luminescent eyes, and

1257
01:16:11.279 --> 01:16:14.399
it was just the shimmering apparent appearance was just my

1258
01:16:14.600 --> 01:16:17.439
blurried vision. And I looked for a second and it

1259
01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:19.359
was just two or three feet removed from the bed,

1260
01:16:20.479 --> 01:16:23.159
and I looked at it and I just thought it's weird.

1261
01:16:23.840 --> 01:16:26.079
And I rolled over, turned my back to it, and

1262
01:16:26.119 --> 01:16:29.760
went back to sleep. The next morning, I just had

1263
01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:31.520
this kind of creepy feeling about it. And the next

1264
01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:35.399
morning I asked I told him. I didn't ask him.

1265
01:16:35.399 --> 01:16:37.520
I just said, oh, I had the weirdest dream last night,

1266
01:16:37.880 --> 01:16:39.720
I said, I dreamt. I rolled over and I described

1267
01:16:39.800 --> 01:16:41.560
what I saw. He's sitting there just looking at me.

1268
01:16:41.960 --> 01:16:44.960
He said, we're about the third person who's described that,

1269
01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:49.439
no way, And then he told me about his experience.

1270
01:16:49.640 --> 01:16:56.359
He had something. It has deep Indian tradition roots, but

1271
01:16:57.079 --> 01:17:00.119
something had There was a short cut from down there.

1272
01:17:00.159 --> 01:17:02.720
He lives just outside of Atlantic City, which is just

1273
01:17:02.800 --> 01:17:06.840
an old ghost town almost, and there was a shortcut.

1274
01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:09.720
His cabin is up on the shoulder of the hill

1275
01:17:10.359 --> 01:17:13.159
above the town, and he was walking that shortcut, which

1276
01:17:13.199 --> 01:17:16.479
took him past this big, old dead snag of a tree,

1277
01:17:17.439 --> 01:17:19.239
and he had a dog with him at that time,

1278
01:17:19.359 --> 01:17:21.159
and the dog as they approached the tree, the dog

1279
01:17:21.279 --> 01:17:25.520
started to bristle and growl. The dog kept watching the

1280
01:17:25.600 --> 01:17:28.880
tree as they walked past, and he called the dog

1281
01:17:28.960 --> 01:17:31.720
and the dog came along. He went into the cabin

1282
01:17:32.920 --> 01:17:34.960
and the dog came in and turned around and just

1283
01:17:35.119 --> 01:17:39.039
watched the door of the cabin and then the dog.

1284
01:17:39.119 --> 01:17:41.640
He said, the dog's eyes followed something come through the

1285
01:17:41.680 --> 01:17:45.199
door into the cabin. The dog walked paste it with

1286
01:17:45.279 --> 01:17:48.760
his eyes flowing across man. Anyway, that night, John had

1287
01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:51.840
a dream about a figure that was like on his

1288
01:17:52.039 --> 01:17:54.319
was a little clear. It was like a giant owl.

1289
01:17:55.520 --> 01:18:00.359
And suddenly the owl and in his at least dream,

1290
01:18:00.399 --> 01:18:02.600
you thought it pounced on him. And in this owl

1291
01:18:02.720 --> 01:18:06.800
it stands like by people they were wrestling, and he

1292
01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:09.079
said he felt like this was a life or death

1293
01:18:09.159 --> 01:18:12.560
struggle for him. And anyway, he woke up the next

1294
01:18:12.640 --> 01:18:16.000
morning just covered in sweat. His bed linens and things

1295
01:18:16.039 --> 01:18:20.560
are just ripped apart, and the floor and anyway, he

1296
01:18:20.800 --> 01:18:27.159
talked to a shaman about it, an elder, and he

1297
01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:29.439
immediately recognized it. There's a name for it. I can't

1298
01:18:29.479 --> 01:18:33.239
remember what the name is. Really, the creature that the

1299
01:18:33.399 --> 01:18:37.560
spirit that that when your life is at a crossroads

1300
01:18:37.720 --> 01:18:42.399
or very depressed or whatever, sometimes you encounter this spirit

1301
01:18:43.000 --> 01:18:46.800
and you you said, if you had lost your fight,

1302
01:18:46.920 --> 01:18:49.720
your battle with this, you may not have survived. Tell

1303
01:18:49.800 --> 01:18:53.119
about it. Oh man, So this is very deeply entrenched

1304
01:18:53.239 --> 01:18:55.800
in their traditional beliefs, and so I may have caught

1305
01:18:55.840 --> 01:18:59.840
a glimpse of that. I that's a perceiving any cross

1306
01:19:00.199 --> 01:19:01.640
in my life. I was trying to think back to

1307
01:19:01.680 --> 01:19:04.039
the circumstances at that time if there was something going on,

1308
01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:07.600
But apparently it wasn't so bad that that it was

1309
01:19:08.079 --> 01:19:11.520
deemed I needed to wrestle with the Yes, wrestling with

1310
01:19:11.640 --> 01:19:13.560
the angel the biblical.

1311
01:19:13.800 --> 01:19:15.279
Exactly Old Testament style.

1312
01:19:15.399 --> 01:19:15.600
Yeah.

1313
01:19:16.600 --> 01:19:22.479
Last question, so when people, for some reason around my generation,

1314
01:19:23.359 --> 01:19:28.319
we really like the Monster Quest episode when you're in

1315
01:19:28.479 --> 01:19:33.560
Snellgrove Lake, it's just it's something about it's like it's

1316
01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:35.520
all over the place, like people really like it. Do

1317
01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:40.159
you have any memories from being in that episode or that.

1318
01:19:40.199 --> 01:19:43.520
Was very big? Yeah, and you're referring to the first one,

1319
01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:44.720
the first that's true.

1320
01:19:44.760 --> 01:19:46.600
There are two, aren't Yeah, there were two.

1321
01:19:47.479 --> 01:19:50.079
The first one, yeah, it was, and it was funny

1322
01:19:50.119 --> 01:19:54.079
too because the way it was edited about the more

1323
01:19:54.199 --> 01:19:57.119
sensation a little bit. And that was when the rock.

1324
01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:00.319
So for those who don't aren't familiar with the baseasically,

1325
01:20:00.399 --> 01:20:03.960
we often after the day's activities, we would tend to

1326
01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:07.479
stay up late at night to listen for things, and

1327
01:20:07.640 --> 01:20:11.000
sometimes to do a wood knock. On those days do

1328
01:20:11.079 --> 01:20:12.960
a wood knock. And I wasn't a huge fan of

1329
01:20:13.000 --> 01:20:15.560
it even then, but and we'd throw our voices make

1330
01:20:15.680 --> 01:20:18.760
calls because out there on the lake when cold night, boy,

1331
01:20:18.920 --> 01:20:21.760
it would just carry. And when it was really still,

1332
01:20:22.279 --> 01:20:24.359
you could hear things on the opposite side of the

1333
01:20:24.439 --> 01:20:27.800
lake a good half mile away, as if they were

1334
01:20:27.840 --> 01:20:29.760
standing right next to you, as if the sound was

1335
01:20:29.800 --> 01:20:32.319
going to go next. So that was really care anyway,

1336
01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:35.199
one night and that night we heard a vocalization seemed

1337
01:20:35.199 --> 01:20:39.680
to be responding to one of our YenS, really just

1338
01:20:39.760 --> 01:20:44.239
a distant trailing call. And then so we would, like

1339
01:20:44.319 --> 01:20:46.760
I said, we'd often stay up later on. This campfire

1340
01:20:46.960 --> 01:20:51.640
was basically a culvert sunk into the ground, stuck up

1341
01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:56.840
about two feet with a rim sparks down and I

1342
01:20:57.039 --> 01:20:59.479
was I'm not a great night out and back then

1343
01:20:59.640 --> 01:21:05.680
especially was I was orderedlying narc elliptic. I'd really discovered

1344
01:21:05.720 --> 01:21:09.479
that I had actually have central sleep apnea. Oh wow, yeah,

1345
01:21:10.079 --> 01:21:13.439
dealing with now. But I was notorious. I could fall

1346
01:21:13.520 --> 01:21:15.800
asleep just if I sat still, or if I was

1347
01:21:15.880 --> 01:21:18.880
in the passenger seat of the car, or if it

1348
01:21:19.000 --> 01:21:23.119
got past ten o'clock, I would just fall asleep anyway.

1349
01:21:23.279 --> 01:21:27.079
And so by about eleven twelve, I was really starting

1350
01:21:27.119 --> 01:21:29.960
to get punchy, so I went in the cabin to

1351
01:21:30.079 --> 01:21:32.600
just splash cold water in my face. While I was

1352
01:21:32.680 --> 01:21:36.680
in there, the producer's son came out onto the porch.

1353
01:21:36.760 --> 01:21:38.560
He didn't want to go to the outhouse, which was

1354
01:21:38.640 --> 01:21:42.680
about oh twenty yards behind the cabin, down a catwalk

1355
01:21:42.760 --> 01:21:45.920
in the dark. It's quite removed, and he goes on

1356
01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:49.159
the porch to relieve himself, and all of a sudden twange,

1357
01:21:49.359 --> 01:21:51.319
just the sound of a like someone had shot a

1358
01:21:51.399 --> 01:21:56.279
beaty agun against this metal siding on the cabin was

1359
01:21:56.520 --> 01:21:59.439
sighted all the way around, as well as a corrugated roof,

1360
01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:03.199
and something that thrown just a little pea sized rock

1361
01:22:03.359 --> 01:22:06.199
or something. It just made a ping, one of those

1362
01:22:06.319 --> 01:22:10.119
ping sounds. But it was right next to this kid

1363
01:22:10.199 --> 01:22:12.199
and his eyes were the size of saucers, and he's

1364
01:22:12.439 --> 01:22:14.359
hiking his pants back up, and CON see him running

1365
01:22:14.359 --> 01:22:17.159
back out to the fire. So I finished what I

1366
01:22:17.279 --> 01:22:19.239
was doing, dry it off, and came out and they said,

1367
01:22:19.239 --> 01:22:20.800
did you hear that? Did you? Guys say yeah, I did.

1368
01:22:21.199 --> 01:22:23.279
I said, which one of you did it? I looked

1369
01:22:23.319 --> 01:22:26.199
at everybody, we were all over. I was just probing them.

1370
01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:29.920
Then Hurt Nelson picks up a rock. He said, I'm

1371
01:22:29.920 --> 01:22:32.159
going to throw a rock in that direction, and I

1372
01:22:32.319 --> 01:22:35.119
jokingly said, don't throw anything too big. It might throw

1373
01:22:35.159 --> 01:22:38.119
it back. Oh man, He picks up a golf ball

1374
01:22:38.239 --> 01:22:41.960
sized rock and he lobs it back. Then you could

1375
01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:45.560
hear it report bounce off a couple of trees and nothing.

1376
01:22:45.760 --> 01:22:48.720
So about ten to fifteen minutes go by that much,

1377
01:22:49.560 --> 01:22:51.760
and I just happened. I was on the right side,

1378
01:22:51.840 --> 01:22:54.520
the correct side, away from the cabin and my out

1379
01:22:54.560 --> 01:22:56.760
of my peripheral vision, I just happened to glance up

1380
01:22:56.840 --> 01:23:00.800
because into the illumination of the firelight comes this the

1381
01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:06.279
roof of the cabin, the direction he'd thrown it. It

1382
01:23:06.359 --> 01:23:10.119
was off from a different angle, but nevertheless, the coincidence

1383
01:23:10.279 --> 01:23:15.199
was there, and it was so funny because they all

1384
01:23:16.359 --> 01:23:19.840
go running into the cabin and I'm saying, where are

1385
01:23:19.880 --> 01:23:22.920
you going? Oh, this is why we're here exactly, this

1386
01:23:23.079 --> 01:23:26.319
is it. Yeah, And it was funny because there was

1387
01:23:26.399 --> 01:23:29.960
some firewood when when the producer's son, he wasn't a

1388
01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:33.119
real outdoors kid and not a lot of experience, you

1389
01:23:33.199 --> 01:23:35.199
know how you when you when a youngster has his

1390
01:23:35.319 --> 01:23:39.640
first experience with an axe, they chopped, actually chop anything,

1391
01:23:39.880 --> 01:23:42.239
but he chopped all this firewood, this little cord wooden

1392
01:23:42.640 --> 01:23:45.520
and it was in the shadow cast from the covert lip.

1393
01:23:46.119 --> 01:23:48.119
I didn't see it. As I stepped back, I stepped

1394
01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:51.479
on one and rolled my ankle. Oh no, I went

1395
01:23:51.600 --> 01:23:54.800
falling down. So from the cabin it looked like I'd

1396
01:23:54.880 --> 01:23:57.760
been beaned by the second rock or a second rock.

1397
01:23:57.880 --> 01:24:00.399
Not the second rock, but a second rock. To their credit,

1398
01:24:00.560 --> 01:24:02.960
the team came out to my rescue to make sure.

1399
01:24:03.119 --> 01:24:03.680
Nice of them.

1400
01:24:03.880 --> 01:24:07.920
Yeah, But then unfortunately on camera Kurt saying here we

1401
01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:11.760
are cowering in the cabin. I got so much email

1402
01:24:11.840 --> 01:24:14.319
as a result of that. One mine, what are you

1403
01:24:14.439 --> 01:24:16.479
doing in the cabin? Why aren't you out there looking

1404
01:24:16.479 --> 01:24:18.760
for And I said, well, here's what actually happened.

1405
01:24:19.479 --> 01:24:20.439
That's intense.

1406
01:24:21.399 --> 01:24:24.920
Yeah, wow, Now what happened. What was really interesting though,

1407
01:24:25.039 --> 01:24:28.479
is that we finally did by about two thirty, I

1408
01:24:28.680 --> 01:24:32.439
was falling asleep, almost falling into the fire, and I said,

1409
01:24:32.439 --> 01:24:34.399
I'm gonna go to bed this nothing else is happening.

1410
01:24:34.920 --> 01:24:36.920
And we had gone back into the woods. We had

1411
01:24:37.000 --> 01:24:40.479
a very at that time, a very sort of primitive

1412
01:24:40.560 --> 01:24:43.560
sort of thermal imager. It was not like the little

1413
01:24:43.760 --> 01:24:46.920
miniature Fleers and in fact, the only way we could

1414
01:24:47.239 --> 01:24:49.399
use it is if a technician from the company came

1415
01:24:49.520 --> 01:24:52.760
with it, oh wow, to handle it. And we also

1416
01:24:52.840 --> 01:24:55.680
had night vision, and we had gone back into the

1417
01:24:55.760 --> 01:24:59.800
woods looking. We had ventured out, but you couldn't see anything.

1418
01:25:00.079 --> 01:25:03.119
It was precarious because up there on the Canadian shield

1419
01:25:03.319 --> 01:25:05.560
it can be very rocky with all kinds of splits

1420
01:25:05.600 --> 01:25:09.000
and crevices, and there's moss covering it, and just like

1421
01:25:10.079 --> 01:25:13.159
you step and break a leg and so trakes in

1422
01:25:13.199 --> 01:25:15.960
around in the pitch black was a little bit precarious.

1423
01:25:16.000 --> 01:25:19.600
So we eventually regrouped around the fire. Finally I said,

1424
01:25:19.600 --> 01:25:21.279
I can't I'm going to fall asleep and fall in

1425
01:25:21.359 --> 01:25:23.720
the fire. So we went all to side. We all

1426
01:25:23.800 --> 01:25:26.680
go to bed, but we keep our boots on just

1427
01:25:26.720 --> 01:25:29.920
in case. Yeah, just in case, like firemen on the

1428
01:25:30.000 --> 01:25:32.760
ready for that arm to go off. And I tell you,

1429
01:25:32.880 --> 01:25:34.840
the lights had gone out and my lids were just

1430
01:25:34.920 --> 01:25:40.119
getting heavy, and all the bang across the roof last time,

1431
01:25:40.159 --> 01:25:41.720
it wasn't a little rock. It was a big chunk

1432
01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:44.399
of cordwood from the woodpile back in the back. Oh

1433
01:25:44.680 --> 01:25:47.520
really wow, across the roof and fell off the stoop

1434
01:25:47.560 --> 01:25:50.239
and was on the catwalk in the back. We looked

1435
01:25:50.239 --> 01:25:53.079
out the first of all, there were screams. You would

1436
01:25:53.079 --> 01:25:55.640
have thought we had some on the in the group

1437
01:25:55.720 --> 01:25:57.720
with us. But lights went on. I said, turn the

1438
01:25:57.800 --> 01:26:00.239
lights off. Turn the lights off, I said, so we

1439
01:26:00.279 --> 01:26:02.600
could see out and they couldn't see it. And I

1440
01:26:02.720 --> 01:26:05.479
was so eager to go running out into the darkness

1441
01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:09.199
if it was raining cord wood. But still no sign

1442
01:26:09.279 --> 01:26:13.399
of anything, and nothing happened. So that was the extent

1443
01:26:13.479 --> 01:26:16.159
of it. But it was an interesting that is really cool.

1444
01:26:18.720 --> 01:26:21.359
That is cool to hear your side of that. Yeah,

1445
01:26:22.520 --> 01:26:26.000
oh man, wow, Thank you so much, doctor Meldrein. This

1446
01:26:26.039 --> 01:26:29.520
has been fantastic and I really appreciate you taking your

1447
01:26:29.560 --> 01:26:31.960
time tonight and hanging out. Thank you for listening to

1448
01:26:32.079 --> 01:26:35.039
this episode of The Big Society Podcast. Every encounter we

1449
01:26:35.119 --> 01:26:37.720
share reminds us that the world is bigger and stranger

1450
01:26:37.800 --> 01:26:40.600
than we think, and that the truth is often hiding

1451
01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:43.680
just beyond the tree line. If you enjoyed this episode,

1452
01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:46.560
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01:26:46.800 --> 01:26:48.880
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1454
01:26:48.960 --> 01:26:51.920
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1455
01:26:52.159 --> 01:26:54.560
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01:26:57.920 --> 01:27:00.600
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01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:04.479
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1459
01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:07.359
or someone you know has had a bigfoot sighting, please

1460
01:27:07.520 --> 01:27:09.800
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1461
01:27:09.960 --> 01:27:13.680
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1462
01:27:14.319 --> 01:27:16.119
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1463
01:27:16.159 --> 01:27:20.399
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1464
01:27:20.520 --> 01:27:23.720
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01:27:23.920 --> 01:27:28.159
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1466
01:27:28.279 --> 01:27:31.199
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1467
01:27:31.279 --> 01:27:34.079
into the Bigfoot subject as much as you are. Thanks

1468
01:27:34.119 --> 01:27:37.079
again for following along with the Bigfoot Society. Until next time,

1469
01:27:37.239 --> 01:27:39.880
keep your eyes open, trust your gut, and never stop

1470
01:27:39.960 --> 01:27:42.119
asking what else might be out there? And see you

1471
01:27:42.199 --> 01:27:42.640
in the woods.