Matt Pruitt and the Phenomenal Sasquatch

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Either you're listening to the Big Society
podcast and I'm Jeremiah Byron. Every week

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I talk to individuals who have experienced
sasquats in some way or another, so

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you won't want to miss an episode. Make sure you're subscribed on the platform

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that you're listening to, and share
this episode where the friend does not cost

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the show notes in Bigfoot Society.
I've taken far too much of your time

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so far, so let's get on
with the show. All right, Big

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Society. I've got the privilege of
talking to well old friend Matt Pruett,

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had him on the podcast before.
How's it going tonight? Matt? Very

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good? Thanks for having me back. How to Blast the first time?

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Llows A good time? Yeah,
listeners, if you haven't heard the first

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Matt Pruitt episode, you want to
go back and listen to that, especially

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if you're fans of his of the
podcast Bigfoot and Beyond. You know Matt

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is the producer there. So there's
a few questions over on that episode,

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so you definitely want to hit that. But let's talk about you know,

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if listeners don't know who Matt is, I consider personally Matt to be one

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of the current great bear with me, I know it, current great minds

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in bigfoot research. Just being honest, like seriously and a very humble individual.

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I've had the pleasure of talking to
him in person at cryptocon in Kentucky

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last year. Just very very cool. He has over twenty years I believe,

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of bigfoot research and he has been
just involved with so many things.

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Is there anything else that we should
be thrown in there, Matt to make

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sure the listeners know what they are
getting into tonight. Now, I mean,

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it's very generous of you to say, by the way, so I'll

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try to earn that and live up
to that. But no, I've been

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doing it. Yeah, it's been
about I started interviewing witnesses and gathering local

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information in two thousand and two and
purchasing books and reading everything I get my

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hands on, and finding documentaries you
know vhs back in those days, and

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then DVDs and things like that.
So really that's about when it started and

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it's just grown from there, from
where I grew up in Northeast Georgia.

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You know, I've told this story
a number of times, so I won't

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belabor the point here. But I
had an experience when I was seventeen,

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back in the nineteen ninety nine,
back in the nineteen hundreds, so but

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I didn't really reconcile that with sasquatch
related information until about two thousand and one,

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two thousand and two, and then
two thousand and two started looking for

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information and trying to get to the
bottom of it. And here we are,

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all these years later and still trying
to get to the bottom of it,

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you know, many states and many
years later, and a lot of

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hats, with a lot of different
sasquatch related projects in between, and try

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to continue to do so. It's
incredible. And you know, so listeners

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get I would say, you probably
have spent hundreds of hours out in the

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field. I mean, let's just
talk about BFRORO expeditions alone. I want

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to say at least twenty you have
listed on your website all over the US,

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which is certainly phenomenal. Yeah,
I started attending those. The first

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one went too was in the US
in May of two thousand and seven,

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and that was the first time I
had met Matt Moneymaker and a number of

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other people. I started meeting local
Southeastern BFRRO investigators in two thousand and six

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and then was invited to that expedition, and so I tended a number around

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the country, and then when Matt
started having BFRRO investigators become expedition organizers,

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I did that for a number of
years from two thousand and eight to two

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thirteen, you know, in the
southeast and then the siving Northwest, and

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then around like the US and highlands
like Oklahoma, Arkansas and places in between.

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And so but you know, I've
always been really interested in being in

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the field. I mean, I
think a good researcher should be equal parts

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sort of armchair research in field research
from the sort of like propositional you know,

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to the participatory as they say so, and it's just great fun.

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And so I really love being in
the field. I'm out as much as

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I can be. I can't tell
you how many hundreds of days and nights

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have spent. And I'm not seeing
the sasquatch yet. Has some interesting experiences,

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but no really concrete visual yet.
But Yeah, one of the more

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interesting things from those years of being
in the BFR I was getting to go

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around the country and meet so many
people. And I met a lot of

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my best friends through that process too. You know, a lot of the

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people that would that I either met
on other people's expeditions or that signed up

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for mind some of those like I'm
still in contact with on a near daily

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basis and have been close friends with
for over a decade. So really fun,

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rewarding experiences. You definitely have a
lot of connection with researchers, for

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sure. You know, just had
a gentleman on I believe his name was

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Jeff Carpenter, and he had greg
words to say about you. I believe

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he said that you were kind of
the one that got him into all of

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this. So yeah, Jaffa's a
sweetheart and a very funny person. You

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know. He's in western North Carolina, very close to where I grew up

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in North Georgia, not terribly far
away. And so I forget how we

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started communicating. I was living in
a different state at that time. I

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might have still been living in Washington
State when he first emailed me, and

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then we finally met. He came
on an expedition that I lead, and

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then we've spent a whole lot of
time together. And yeah, I'll have

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to go listen to the episode.
I didn't realize you'd had him on yet,

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So that's pretty cool. He's a
he's a sweetheart of a guy and

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very funny, great out in the
field. But man, he's he always

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makes me smile and makes me laugh. He's got a good heart. It's

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it's funny and uh, yeah,
listeners you want to watch listen to that

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episode if you haven't yet. Story
of how he saw it big Foot while

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he was listening to I believe ac
DC. So pretty cool, pretty cool

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story. But has Matt, has
there been a time when you've been out

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in the field researching big Foot where
you know, sometimes I asked this question

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where things just got a little bit
too intense, maybe too quickly for what

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you were expecting. I guess it
really just depends two intense encounters with something

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unknown, and then I've had some
really intense encounters with humans. So I've

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had some intense encounters out there,
just depending on the sort of creature you

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know. Luckily, I haven't had
too many frightening animal encounters. I've had

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loads and loads of black bear encounters, but none of those were you know,

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bluff charges or anything like that,
although we did have a fairly close

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call last year with the black bear
that was charging. It was a female

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that was charging away at mail,
and when the mail ran off, she

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turned and looked right at us,
and I thought, we're next. We

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better just start open away. But
I mean, my first experience was very

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much of that vein, but we
didn't know what we were dealing with,

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and I guess to some degree I
still don't because we didn't see the things.

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But I mean, it was very
intimidating. It was at night,

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very thick vegetation. It was summertime
in northeast Georgia, and again that was

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in nineteen ninety nine. But you
know, loud branches breaking and then the

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sound of them being torn off the
trees and then hit against the trees.

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And so it's just strange to us
because we didn't couldn't really reconcile it with

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like bears or deer or something known
animal and they didn't seem to be people.

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And that, you know, all
culminated and we did abandon our camp.

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We ran back to the vehicles and
drove back to my mom's house and

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came back for our tents and cool
as the next day. But then once

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I started going out in the field
like intentionally trying to elicit encounters or approaches

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or responses, there's a few that
come to mind. Maybe not as intense

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for me, because I was so
obsessed with trying to like make contact and

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especially to have a side, you
know, I do think that that would

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be It's a much needed thing for
me at this point, you know,

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because I've tried so hard for so
long, and so I always feel like,

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you know, I might be like
ninety nine point nine percent certain that

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there exist, you know, or
ninety nine point an infinite number of nines,

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but I think seeing one would make
it one hundred percent for sure.

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There was one particular time in must
have been two thousand and six, and

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I have to say too that a
few of these encounters they share something in

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common, which is dumb luck,
you know, because so many sightings and

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encounters are just total they're serendipitous,
you know, and for the vast majority

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of witnesses, it just it just
happened, you know, it wasn't something

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intentional. Now people have had sightings
in the act of intentionally pursuing sasquatches,

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but those are more rare, like
if you look at most sightings there,

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they're just serendipitous, random, you
know, right place, right time.

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And so I was living in the
Atlanta area but still doing field research,

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mostly in North Georgia, and I'd
driven up to visit friends and family and

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some friends of ours. I had
a friend who would accompany me in the

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field quite often, and two other
friends that were totally skeptical, like,

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oh, there's no such thing,
and by I can't believe you waste your

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time on this. And these two
were not particularly like they didn't camp,

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they didn't hike, they weren't really
outdoors people. They were a couple of

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grades younger than us in school,
although by two thousand and six we were

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out of school, but they were
mostly like glued to the TV and video

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games and things like that. And
so I just thought, Okay, well

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we'll just put him in the car. I'll take him out in the heart

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of darkness. They'll get the crap
scared out of them just from being in

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the woods in the dark, and
it'll be great fun, you know.

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And so I've had a headlamp that
I borrowed from someone and a baseball bat

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to make knocks with. You know. I was like, all right,

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come on, I'll kind of show
you what we do. And we drove

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up sort of near the headwaters of
the Chattahoochee River. It's where we filmed

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a lot of the Nights stuff during
that premiere episode of Finding big Foot years

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later. And we went out there
and parked the vehicle and walked up to

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a little sort of it's not really
an overlook, but it kind of sort

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of is that because the terrain drops
down and there's a creek down below,

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and then another feeder creaked down the
other side, and then essentially a big

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hill and a slope across this forest
service road. And so I just thought

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it was the very first stop of
the night. And again there was no

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plans to even go out. It
was just like, oh, these guys

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are going to be skeptical. Let's
take them out and see if they get

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spooked by the darkness. You know. First stop we park, I'm like,

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all right, we're gonna get out. We're gonna walk up very quietly,

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don't make any noise, you know, And we walk up to this

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point, and there's this large tree
by the road, you know, Mica

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Hanks, absolutely yeah. I just
took Mica to this spot, okay,

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number before last to show them all
this. Had this baseball bat in the

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dark, didn't even turn on the
headlamp, you know, knock this tree,

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and by the time I crossed my
arms with the bat in hand,

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from the creek bottom came this big, bellowing moan howl, you know,

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the classic who And as that was
going on, a second one moan howl

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from this slope and their sounds overlapped, and it was just absolutely mind blowing

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because we had just somehow stumbled into
getting between two somethings that made a howling

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response to a knock. It wasn't
like a knock for a knock, or

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wasn't like a howl or something like
that. And I was just flabbergasted,

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you know, because I've been spinning
all this time for the last few years,

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with really not much of anything happening
ever, and now this was happening.

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And then we could hear this sort
of like heavy trumping, like marching,

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and then it got dead quiet,
and we're just standing there in the

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dark, frozen, and one of
the guys is like, what happened?

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Are they gone? What was that? And I was like, what do

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you think that was? Like,
that's that's what I told you, Like,

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this is why we're here. Every
hand it's like, why is it

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so quiet? And I was like, I don't think they left. I

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think they can see us, like
as if they you know, Bill,

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is that you kind of a thing. And then they come together and then

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they see there's four humans just standing
in this road in the dark. And

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then there was a big loud knock
from the down creek side and the other

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two guys started to get very scared
and wanted to leave, and I was

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like, well, we can't leave. We can't leave. We just need

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to We need to go back to
the vehicle if you're feeling scared, But

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we can't leave, but we will. Will that be okay? They're like,

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hey, yeah, So we go
back to the vehicle, getting the

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vehicle rolled down the windows and we're
just sitting there listening, you know,

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and it's just pitch black darkness,
and then heard the classic sound something coming

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through the foliage and the leaves and
thud, and then I turned onto the

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daytime running lights on this vehicle and
there's this, you know, decent sized

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rock in the road with the four
service dust sort of off the four service

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road coming up around it. It's
like, okay, I think that was

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just thrown up here. But still
like we're not seeing anything, you know,

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it's not like they're screaming and thrashing
vegetation. There's still just these little

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things happening. And after a while
it got really quiet and nothing happened,

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and I thought, Okay, now
they're gone. It's over. Because you

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know, when you're sitting there in
the dark for five minutes, it feels

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like twenty minutes. You know,
there's nothing happening. You're listening. And

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so we started to drive away and
thought we heard like a whoop like sound

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down that down creekside, but it's
hard to tell. Like I had the

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vehicle on and we're moving, you
know. So as soon as we heard

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that, I was like, did
you hear that? My friend in the

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passenger seat said, yeah, I
heard that, So put it in park,

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killed it, you know, turn
it off. It's like listening listening,

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I said, make that sound back
at it. So my buddy leaned

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out the window and whooped, and
we listened for a few minutes and nothing

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happened. I was like, okay, we probably didn't even hear something like

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maybe it's just really over now.
And we cranked the car and the lights

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turned on, and from the uphill
side was this huge, gnarly, brutal,

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very high pitched scream. I couldn't
even emulate it, you know,

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just but brief and duration like I
but just very loud, very close.

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And I distinctly remember the feeling.
It felt like my whole face just turned

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white hot, like you put it
over a campfire, just all the nerve

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endings, you know. It's just
terrified, you know, but excited.

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And the person behind me, the
friend that was sitting behind me, started

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punching the headrest of my seat and
say go go, go, go go

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go. And I was like,
shut up, shut up, shut up,

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shut up. And I turned the
car off, and I'm like,

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if we shut up, be quiet, like if we listen, we can

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we might hear it again. And
he started crying and he said, I

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will never forget the sound of this. He said, I don't ever want

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to hear that sound again in my
whole life. And I was like,

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okay, we'll go so I turn
on the lights and I could see up

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the slope there was this tree with
sort of an odd curvature in it,

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and I was like, okay,
that's a very noticeable looking tree was somewhere

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in that vicinity. I can come
back here tomorrow, go to that tree

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and then start working up to mount
and see if there's any tracks or something

227
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like that. We'll be back with
more big Foot Society after these words from

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our sponsors, and he wouldn't go
back with me the next day. He

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was like, I'm not going back
there. I'm not going back there at

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all. And then in subsequent conversations
because he was a family friend, at

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one point his mother had said to
me, she was like, that really

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wasn't funny what you did to him. And I was like, I did

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not do anything, and she was
like, well, no, he was

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terrified. He was absolutely terrified.
And they owned a lot of property in

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North Georgia, and he had told
me years later, he's like, oh,

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I don't even camp on my own
property after that. And then his

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father told me in two thousand and
eight. He was like, you know,

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he told me about that night and
he seemed pretty rattled. And I

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was like oh he was, like
we all were. So that was probably

240
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the most intense thing. But there's
two other sort of encounters that I've had

241
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or experiences, let's say, over
the years. Another one in two thousand

242
00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.480
and eight in North Georgia and one
in twenty ten in on the east side

243
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of the Cascades in Washington. Same
thing, just random, like, oh,

244
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let's go check this place out.
Didn't plan to do it, just

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oh, let's go see what's back
here, and something happened, like we

246
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stumbled into right place, right time. Just there's no proxy for luck,

247
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you know, when you're when you're
dealing with an animal with a very large

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home range that's very mobile in it. It could be anywhere within that range.

249
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Even if you knew exactly where the
boundaries of its range were, You're

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00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:41.240
still going to rely on luck to
some degree to be in the same exact

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time and place as it within that
range. And so you get out there

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enough and sometimes it happens that's wild. And when you took Mike out there,

253
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anything happened or not. You know, we went out there for a

254
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few days and nights and took him
and Jeff came as well. Jeff does

255
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sasquatch tracks. Yeah, and it
was beautiful, and Jeff Carpenter was there

256
00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:07.359
too, so a funny story.
Jeff Carpenter had just bought this new thermal

257
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:14.200
imager, and I took those guys
on a night hike and we went really

258
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far out up this there's a road
that's almost always gated. It's nearly permanently

259
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gated, but occasionally they'll open it
during certain hunting seasons. And there are

260
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some wildlife planting fields back there that
they might cut and replant every few years,

261
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.000
so it's a great play. We
see a lot of deer and other

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animals hanging out back there, but
some of them are, you know,

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three miles back beyond this gate.
So I was like, oh, it'd

264
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:37.440
be good. Let's let's park at
this gate and go walk back here,

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and Jeff's got his thermal imager and
we'll see if there's wildlife around. And

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we'd gone out there and listen and
weren't seeing much, and went further and

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further back to this smaller field and
I didn't have the night the thermal unit.

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Jeff did, and so I was
walking ahead and he's like, oh,

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hey, there's a deer laying down
in that field, and I was

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looking in this field as fairly moonlit, and I was like, oh,

271
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yeah, I can kind of see
the shape of something. And he's like,

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yeah, that deer's just laying there. Doesn't seem to be too concerned

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with you. And I was like, oh, well, I can kind

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of see what I think. Let
me get closer. And I get closer

275
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and closer and closer, and he's
like, dude, you're standing right in

276
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front of it. It's betted down
and I couldn't see it, and so

277
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I was like, come give me
that therrible man. And so he brings

278
00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:27.359
it over and I look and it's
a giant wild hog like fifteen twenty feet

279
00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:30.319
from it something like that. I'm
like, I think it must be full,

280
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because it really was not concerned at
all. And so finally, like

281
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I shot a big bright light at
it, and it just got up and

282
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slowly saunch. It was not in
a hurry, like wow, maybe it

283
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.960
just gorged itself or something, and
was very lethargic. But I was like,

284
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Jeff, Man, you almost have
me when out. Jeff didn't make

285
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me do it, but I was
like, that was a hog man,

286
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that wasn't a deer. I almost
walked right up on that thing. So

287
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:56.400
that was quite the adventure. That
was the only wildlife we saw that whole

288
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weekend. Pretty much. Man,
crazy story, dude, Oh I love

289
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:07.880
it. And and it's those it's
those those crazy sound experiences. It's like

290
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you never have a sound recorder on
you because you're just you know, it's

291
00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:15.440
just off off the cuff. But
oh yeah, well again, that was

292
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two thousand and six, and so
I wasn't in the BFRO. The only

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other I'd only at that point met
like one other sasquatch researcher, who was

294
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in basically like Middle Georgia or North
Middle Georgia essentially, so south of Atlanta,

295
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and so we didn't get together as
frequently because we were pretty far apart

296
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in terms of you know, he
lived several hours away from North Georgia,

297
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and so field research for me was
me either by myself or convincing my friends

298
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to go on a camping trip while
I did this thing, and they would

299
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just sort of be there, you
know, because they weren't really a couple

300
00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:52.400
of friends got interested in it,
but for the most part they were like,

301
00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:55.720
oh yeah, we'll go camping and
hike around and look around, but

302
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it was really just me sort of
on my own. But then my one

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00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:02.599
friend who I'm still close friend to
this day, who was there, He

304
00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:07.640
became, you know, much more
convinced after that night when holding those moaning

305
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.279
howls and all that stuff. That's
wild, dude, Oh man, thank

306
00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:15.319
you for sharing those are that was
that's some cool stuff. Of course,

307
00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:21.759
as listeners might guess, I am. I have brought Matt on to discuss

308
00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:26.039
his book, The Phenomenal Sasquatch,
which was an incredible segue. I know

309
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:32.640
listeners were all about that this book
is really good, Matt, like it's

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00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:37.400
super I wasn't expecting it to be
extremely hard hitting, but like it really

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00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:41.519
you do. You do not pull
any punches in this book, and it

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00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.960
is. You did a really good
job. So fantastic work. I appreciate

313
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that very very much, and thank
you for reading it. It means the

314
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world that you would give it a
chance and support it and give it a

315
00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.640
read, So thank you very much. Oh yeah, definitely one that you

316
00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:59.640
want to have, like on your
bookshelf. You know, there's maybe some

317
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.799
in the Kindle, maybe both,
maybe you can get Kindle two, but

318
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.759
definitely on the bookshelf. I was
really curious when I was reading it,

319
00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:15.920
what was the Was there a motivation, you know, behind writing this book,

320
00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:18.880
or like what pushed you, Like, Okay, I need to get

321
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:26.359
my take on what's going on out
into the world through this book. Yeah.

322
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.000
Well, I've been very fortunate enough
over the years to have been asked

323
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.839
to you know, I started doing
interviews for internet radio and then podcasts and

324
00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:38.759
terrestrial radio media and things like that. I started speaking publicly about the subject

325
00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:42.039
in two thousand and seven and then
so not only through that, but you

326
00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:47.680
know, personal correspondence and outreach and
then being on bfr O expeditions or leading

327
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.559
BFRRO expeditions. You know, you
just communicate with so many people. And

328
00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:53.519
it was very fortunate enough to hear
a lot of people say, oh,

329
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.599
you should write a book, you
should write a book, But I sort

330
00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.880
of really lived in that world of
dialogue. I just find it more productive.

331
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.400
You know, writing can be really
tedious, and you know, when

332
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:07.359
you're speaking to someone, you have
the ability to to make, you know,

333
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.359
various analogies based on who your audience
is. So you know, if

334
00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:14.279
you're trying to explain a concept to
a room full of biologists, let's say,

335
00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:18.720
you know, you can use certain
terms or examples or analogies, and

336
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.279
if I'm speaking to a room full
of my musician friends, I've got to

337
00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:23.960
use some like different terminology and different
analogies to try to make these things connect

338
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:30.039
or seemingly disparate ideas connect. And
so writing can be challenging because it's like,

339
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.440
no, you have to say it
one way for all audiences forever.

340
00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:36.160
That's it. You don't get to
say why, no, look at it

341
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.559
from this perspective, or okay,
how about this? You know, So

342
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:44.680
it was always an interesting proposition.
But I just really loved being in these

343
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:48.599
kind of situations where we can talk
dynamically or even you know, it's speaking

344
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.079
in public to audiences, it's still
kind of a conversation because you're watching people's

345
00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:56.680
reaction and body language and trying to
you know, feed off the crowd and

346
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.359
like, okay, where did I
Okay, maybe I lost someone. Let

347
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:03.359
me explain that a little bit more
for that person. But it was to

348
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:06.680
the point where I thought, well, you know, I've I've been very

349
00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:12.920
much a a supporter or like support
personnel or even like when I worked on

350
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.039
finding big Foot, it was like
fixer, you know, and I really

351
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:18.920
love doing that stuff. Some of
my favorite experiences in bands was where I

352
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.720
was like the side person, you
know, playing with a favorite band of

353
00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:25.440
mine. You know. But then
it came time like, well, what

354
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:30.559
would I want to make as my
sort of statement, devoid of any other

355
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:34.240
projects or anything like that. And
so I thought, well, I would

356
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:41.519
like to write a book that would
hopefully aim high, not just another collection

357
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.599
of stories or you know, because
it's not about me. It's not my

358
00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:48.119
story by any stretch. And so
I thought, well, when I got

359
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.599
into the subject, you know,
it took me a while to accumulate so

360
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.759
many books that I really learned a
lot from or that I considered to be

361
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like essential or required. And then
some of those hadn't even been rich and

362
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:02.640
yet, you know, because then
later there was Mildern's book, and then

363
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:07.319
later Bennernagel's second book, you know, Discovery of the Sasquatch. And so

364
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:08.440
when people would say like, well
what should I read, it's like,

365
00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:12.599
well, here at least these five
and then maybe these ten, and you'll

366
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:15.359
get a pretty good education. And
I thought, well, maybe I could

367
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:18.160
write the sort of book that,
like if you only ever read one.

368
00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:23.839
This would give you a really thorough
education and a comprehensive overview of the entirety

369
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of the phenomenon, let's say the
subject itself. And then if you wanted

370
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to do deeper dives into certain elements. If you wanted to learn more about

371
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:36.319
inferred foot morphology or anatomy, Readcrants, read Meldern. If you want to

372
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.319
read a collection of eyewitness testimonies,
go read John Green. You know,

373
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so, you could have this as
a jumping off point, but at least

374
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:48.079
it would be what I was trying
to do is like the single most comprehensive

375
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:53.160
work that I wish that I had
when I first started, but also expand

376
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:56.720
and develop it beyond. I didn't
want it to be like a rehash of

377
00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:00.920
things that had been said before,
but to push the conversation and explore concepts

378
00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.400
that hadn't really been explored before,
make connections that I hadn't seen or heard

379
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:10.440
other people make before. And so
it would hopefully appeal to people who were

380
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:12.960
devoted students of the subject. But
also if someone was brand new, they

381
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:18.279
would get a bottom up education.
If like, we're going to build the

382
00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:21.640
whole foundation all the way up to
the top floor thus far, and you'll

383
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.640
have a good understanding from this single
work. So I don't know if I

384
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.039
achieved it, but that's what I
was trying to do at least, you

385
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.039
know, no, I would say
you definitely did. It's man, it's

386
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:34.839
it's it's really really well put together, because I remember I was like halfway

387
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.880
through it, I was like,
man, this is really good. They

388
00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:41.559
probably couldn't get any better. And
it's like, oh man, now it's

389
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:47.839
getting better, Like wow, this
is wild. But it's definitely it's not

390
00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:53.640
just focused on on Bigfoot itself.
It's it makes the reader take a step

391
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:59.839
back and well, maybe I'm just
speaking from how it affected me, but

392
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.480
it's like it made me take a
step back and be like, oh okay,

393
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:10.279
so what is my motivation myself in
pursuing this actual subject? Like how

394
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:12.519
do I fit into this? Is
it? You know? And it really

395
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:18.240
be warned. It makes you really
kind of get deep a little bit at

396
00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:22.759
certain parts, which is good.
I think that's that's good that the reader

397
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:27.759
take a few minutes to to think
about, you know, what is what

398
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:33.880
is my part in this, uh, this bigfoot subject? And why am

399
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:41.279
I so intensely motivated in figuring out
trying to figure out what's going on here?

400
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.160
You know, do I have the
right motivation? And it's just man,

401
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:48.599
it's it's a very cool. So
hats off to you for I appreciate

402
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.279
that a lot that that resonated with
you. Because of course, like most

403
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:57.039
people are, they get they want
to talk about bits of evidence or you

404
00:26:57.079 --> 00:27:00.839
know, statistical analyzes of reports,
you know, and ete. But those

405
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:04.640
are the points that really mattered the
most to me, is because they are

406
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:11.599
all kind of self examinations too.
And as you know, the Sasquatch community,

407
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:14.599
you know, if that's really a
thing, you know, there's a

408
00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:18.759
million little sub communities were trying to
house under the Bigfoot community. But it's

409
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:25.200
not quite communal, no, But
I think people very often, you know,

410
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:29.759
they want to see themselves reflected.
And so you know, I've met

411
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:33.359
plenty of people who because I,
again, I try to wear a lot

412
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.599
of hats, and a lot of
that's just by accident, you know.

413
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.519
It just so happened that, you
know, I grew up playing music and

414
00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:45.200
had a lot of experience recording and
engineering and things like that, and did

415
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.279
the Bigfoot thing. And so when
Cliff and Bubble were like hey, we

416
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:51.480
should do a podcast. Could you
produce an edited and engineer to do the

417
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:53.319
musical bumpers? Like oh yeah,
sure. Like it wasn't like I set

418
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:56.400
out to be like, oh I
want to make a podcast, you know.

419
00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:00.200
It was just, oh, I'm
a bigfoot research or sasquatch you know,

420
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:04.440
contender who has the know how,
and you know, obviously friendship with

421
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:08.240
those guys. But I can't tell
you how many people I've met that are

422
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.480
like, oh, those podcasters,
it's like, well, you know,

423
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:15.920
don't get me started. Met well, they want to they want to differentiate

424
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:18.119
between those things, or you know, I'll meet people that will say,

425
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:21.599
you know, oh, what what
you should do is, you know,

426
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:25.640
invest in these long term audio recorders
that record for months at a time and

427
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:29.000
then get this analyzing software and go
through it. And it's like, that's

428
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:32.759
not me. That's not what I'm
interested in. I like being in the

429
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:37.720
field, and I like carrying a
camera and trying to get photographs and you

430
00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:41.880
know, exploring and looking for things
or being sort of posted up and trying

431
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:45.960
to conduct myself like a wildlife photographer. I wouldn't go around telling people like

432
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:48.920
what you need to do is you
know, put on snake boots and cam

433
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:52.799
own a gilly suit and get this
DSLR camera and post up for eight hours.

434
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.720
Don't move, don't cough, don't
breathe, you know, don't all

435
00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:59.559
this kind of stuff. And so, but people want to impose their values

436
00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:02.319
on other people. And so it's
like, you know, or you'll hear

437
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:04.839
people say things like, oh,
well, stories are just stories are not

438
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:08.519
worth anything. It's like, well, to some people, they're worth everything.

439
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:12.480
And so there's a niche for everyone. And you know, I'm a

440
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:17.160
huge fan of podcasts, you know, I consume a lot of them across

441
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:19.640
a number of different subjects, you
know, not just the Sasquats thing,

442
00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:26.359
but all hosts of different subjects.
I love stories about you know, unrelated

443
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.799
subjects. And we were all storytelling, story listening creatures, you know,

444
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.960
and so stories are integral to the
human experience. And so you know,

445
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:38.880
if someone wants to hear Sasquash stories, let them hear them. And if

446
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:45.119
someone wants to be a collector or
aggregator or sort of like the discerning ear

447
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.000
that says like, okay, well
I'll be the proxy for the audience.

448
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:52.440
I think the audience should hear this
story, let me interview this person.

449
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:56.160
There's a role for everyone and they're
all useful and needed, and so it

450
00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.519
does frustrate me to see people imposing, you know, oh, you should

451
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:03.599
be flying drones, or you should
be putting up audio equipment, or you

452
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.519
should be doing this, or whatever
the case may be. You know,

453
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:15.720
we'll be back with more Bigfoot Society
after these words from our sponsors. It's

454
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.519
like, let people do what they
enjoy doing, leave them the hell alone,

455
00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:22.559
and if you like what they do, support them. It's that simple,

456
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:27.519
you know, it really is.
That's that's that's incredible. Like,

457
00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:33.680
yeah, so I get that.
I get it. Man. Well it's

458
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.759
a tough thing because and I see
it in myself too, because I don't

459
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.480
go around you know, I don't
like comment on things that I love.

460
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:45.000
You know, I listened to like
my favorite music, or I watch amazing

461
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.839
live performances on YouTube, and or
like I listen to podcasts, you know

462
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:53.440
what I mean, and absolutely love
it and then move on to the next

463
00:30:53.440 --> 00:31:00.119
thing. And so I think people
don't post positive comments very often, and

464
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:04.079
it just it doesn't always cross people's
minds. But of course, you know,

465
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:07.200
if someone has a gripe or something
negative to say they have no qualms

466
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:11.119
about like this, I don't like
this, I don't like that. And

467
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.680
so I think it's easy for people
in the online space who are podcasters or

468
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:18.720
you know, if they have YouTube
channels, whatever the case may be,

469
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:23.160
to disproportionately see like people's negative takes
and not realize like, well, hey

470
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:30.119
man, you got thirty thousand downloads
in that episode, like three people said

471
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.039
something negative, So maybe you do
the math and think, well, probably

472
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:37.559
more people liked it than not.
They're just living busy lives and they're not

473
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.240
going to stop that. Hey love
the episode, keep up the great work.

474
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:44.440
And some people do take the time
to do that. But I reflect

475
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.480
on my own experience and I'm like, man, I don't go around leaving

476
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:49.519
positive I don't leave any I don't
leave negative comments either, because I just

477
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:55.920
don't think they're helpful. But I
should be better about going like great performance

478
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.359
or great shows or you know,
whatever the case may be. But yeah,

479
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.440
you can't can't let that stuff get
through to you. And there's there's

480
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:07.680
a niche for everyone in any given
subject. And if people are genuine,

481
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:12.279
like sincerely interested, have that genuine
curiosity where they want to get to the

482
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:15.920
two answers and they want to learn
more, like there's you can always tell

483
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:22.200
authenticity, you know, and that
should be rewarded and paid attention to.

484
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:29.519
So here here m so so good. Was there a part of the book

485
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:32.279
that you were like, oh,
man, this has been in my head

486
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:37.680
for so long and now I can
actually put it out there and other people

487
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:43.119
can know. Was there anything like
that that was like this is it's very

488
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:46.200
uh, it only lives in this
book. Oh, there were a few

489
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:53.799
of those things, I think,
trying to show the parallels between certain beliefs,

490
00:32:54.480 --> 00:33:00.240
let's say, like pre Western discovery
beliefs associated with you know, tigers

491
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:05.480
with bears, with guerrillas that are
analogous to beliefs that are associated with the

492
00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:10.359
Sasquatch, not only in indigenous cultures
but also in modern day because the Sasquatch

493
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:15.519
is still in that you know,
prediscovery or undiscovered sort of phase. And

494
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:17.359
showing that, you know, I
do think that a lot of those are

495
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:22.680
sort of the normative ways of perceiving
the world, the natural world as well

496
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:29.319
as the sort of inner world,
These sort of phenomenological descriptions that was a

497
00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:32.640
sort of discovery, I would say, or maybe a revelation would be more

498
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:36.359
like it, because you know,
people had written about this and all these

499
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:38.880
other animals, and I just hadn't
encountered it and associated with the Sasquatch yet.

500
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:42.519
So it's not like I made a
discovery. It was just like revealed

501
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.440
that all this other great work existed, but that no one had really looked

502
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:49.279
into it to the Sasquatch that way. So trying to make that point of

503
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:55.680
well, it's wrong to dismiss it
because it's associated with supernatural beliefs, because

504
00:33:55.799 --> 00:34:00.359
other very real animals are too,
and we wouldn't dismiss their existence just because

505
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:07.279
they are purported to you know,
mediate between realms, or paralyze people,

506
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:10.079
you know, with their gaze or
with their mind, or to know the

507
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:14.440
contents of a person's heart is sort
of like a moral judge or something like

508
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:19.639
that. But likewise, to try
to defend that against some of those supernatural

509
00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:23.480
essentialists or supernatural maximalists, I guess
you could say, I could say,

510
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:27.760
like, well, no, we
don't think tigers and bears and gorillas can

511
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:30.119
do that, but sasquads they definitely
can. They actually really can do all

512
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:32.639
these things, because they really do
have these powers, you know what I

513
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:38.639
mean, So that I thought was
not really as well explored and in other

514
00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:47.880
books or illuminated that I'm aware of. I think the discussion about the physiological

515
00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:52.880
and psychological responses, you know,
as a sort of like bottom up physiological

516
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:57.880
response, you know, innate freezing, tonic immobility, and then this sort

517
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:04.519
of cognitive shock, disruption of categorization, the encounter with the novel or the

518
00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:07.960
unknown, all those occurring simultaneously,
and then reading the literature to see like

519
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:13.880
what that basically does to people and
how it incapacitates them. And then you

520
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:15.920
think about an animal that can do
all that to a person, and it's

521
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:21.400
not the animal doing it. It's
just the normative, innate human response to

522
00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:25.159
these categories of stimuli. Let's say, Hey, and then to you know,

523
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:30.000
I wanted to illuminate that so fully
so that if people read that and

524
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:34.519
understood it, they wouldn't think to
themselves when they hear it encounter story,

525
00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:37.000
oh why didn't you get a picture? You know, It's like because they

526
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:42.960
were incapacitated by the time their systems
come back online. Because I describe it

527
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:46.000
as like a series, like a
cascade of system failures, as the sort

528
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:50.280
of analogy I use there and by
the time the systems come back online and

529
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:52.960
things gone, because you know,
most encounters are very very brief, and

530
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.920
so that I had a lot of
fun exploring and writing. The problem is

531
00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:01.800
always like what not to say,
because any one of those sections I was

532
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:05.920
I kept adding and added. I
was like, oh, this is going

533
00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:07.519
to turn into a chapter, and
any one of those chapters could have turned

534
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:10.679
into like three chapters if I wasn't
careful. So trying to keep it like

535
00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:15.920
under one hundred thousand words three hundred
pages, I knew it was going to

536
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.440
be the kind of goal and make
it tighter and tighter and more concise,

537
00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:22.719
and I wanted it to be unpackable
too, where you know, you could

538
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:27.519
take a section and really spend a
lot of time extracting things out of it

539
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:34.920
and not just elaborate something to death. You know that that witness section of

540
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:38.480
the book was actually it was my
favorite of the book. I had actually

541
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:45.159
a note about it just because,
as you said, I'd never seen that

542
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:50.920
approached in another book. But the
part when you're talking about I believe you're

543
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:55.440
talking to a witness and she had
to explain to you about you know what

544
00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:01.760
it's like when you're in driving in
there's a car are coming towards you and

545
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.880
you almost have a head on collision. It's like that. And it that

546
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.239
just like really got me, you
know, because I'm I'm usually talking to

547
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:14.360
a lot of witnesses in interviews and
I'm like, oh, yeah, that's

548
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:16.760
such a good reminder that it's just
like, as you said, like just

549
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:22.119
systems failures shuts down. Well,
I was so young at that time.

550
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:24.559
That was one of the first witnesses
that i'd interviewed. She was a local

551
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:30.400
witness. That sighting happened like maybe
half a mile from the house I grew

552
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:36.119
up in. It's real close.
I mean I could walk out my mom's

553
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:38.400
back door and be at that spot
and just in a couple of minutes.

554
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:44.440
And so when I had found her. And it's one of the best sightings

555
00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:46.039
too, because you know, a
lot of people see them in the forest

556
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:52.599
and so there's some sort of obstructions
or it's not always the most favorable conditions,

557
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:55.920
or you know that's canopies thick and
not a lot of light is getting

558
00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:00.199
through. But what she saw,
this woman was essentially driving. You know,

559
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:04.679
you could featured we got her to
be featured in that first episode of

560
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:08.360
Finding big Foot, so she's featured
in that episode. She was driving north

561
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:13.760
between Cleveland and Helen, like you're
heading towards Hell and Georgia, and there's

562
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.519
a stretch where it kind of goes
downhill and this creek called Duke's Creek passes

563
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:22.800
under seventy five and this thing came
up over the embankment and was crossing the

564
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:24.960
road and she slammed on the brakes
and it just stopped. And so it's

565
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:30.199
right in front of her vehicle,
fully illuminated by her headlights, you know,

566
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:32.320
no obstructions. I mean, she
can see it head to toe,

567
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:37.679
and she was terrified, and you
know, short stair off and then it

568
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:42.039
just kept going the way it was
going. And so when I first met

569
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:45.519
her at that spot, what was
interesting, it was years after it had

570
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.360
happened. It was in the early
two thousand she saw it. The encounter

571
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:53.559
that I had is like a mile
from there as the crow flies, maybe

572
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:57.199
two miles. I have to pull
up Google Maps. It's very close.

573
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:01.679
It's in the same valley, the
same river valley. And my encounter was

574
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:07.519
in summer of ninety nine and her
sighting was on Thanksgiving Day of nineteen ninety

575
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:09.280
nine, so it could have been
the same animal that we encounter, who

576
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:13.559
knows. And so by the time
I interviewed her at the site, a

577
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:17.639
few years had passed. And you
know, my brain's like exploding with sasquatch

578
00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:22.199
information from these books that I'm reading
and you know, and I'm trying to

579
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:24.800
you know, it's like the Beautiful
Mind where all these other reports are coming

580
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:30.280
up and there's text flashing across my
face. And so she was explaining to

581
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:32.360
me what she saw, and there
was kind of a quiet moment, and

582
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:38.280
I was so excited. They amped
up really and I was just talking out

583
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:40.400
loud, like maybe it was following
this creek and you know, there's these

584
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:43.639
meadows over here and there's probably a
lot of deer and maybe it's funny,

585
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.360
you know, just talking away.
And she just started and she's like,

586
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:51.079
have you seen one? And I
was like no, and she goes,

587
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:52.760
then you don't know, and she
pointed her finger at me like then you

588
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:57.480
don't know. I thought I was
going to die. And I had to

589
00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:00.280
go like and realize, like,
oh, this thing that I think is

590
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:06.880
so exciting or cool. She wanted
to be understood, and I wasn't understanding

591
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:10.119
her. I was trying to like
reverse engineer the mind of this animal.

592
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:15.679
And she just wanted someone to go, hey, please believe me, because

593
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:19.440
you know, she faced ridicule and
disbelief from people. And I saw that

594
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:24.559
firsthand too from people in the community, and which was terribly unfortunate. But

595
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:29.079
you know, she wanted me to
understand that. Like no, I was

596
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:30.760
stricken with fear. And that's when
she she goes, have you ever been

597
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:34.519
driving and someone swerves into your land
and you're sure you're going to have a

598
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:37.480
head on collision? She said,
that's what it felt like. She said.

599
00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:40.320
It didn't do anything. You didn't
exhibit any behaviors that made me felt

600
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.880
she said, was just right there. It was so big. I was

601
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:47.440
thinking, what is that? What
is that? Just terrifying? You know

602
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:52.519
how so I've always that's always stuck
with me, and you know you'll hear

603
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:57.480
that and witnesses. That's why you
know, a lot of those historical reports

604
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:00.519
that I include in the historical record, you see the same discriptions of the

605
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:07.119
human response. You know, but
numbed couldn't speak, struck with immediately,

606
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:09.800
struck with pausey one of them says, or like paralyzed in place, on

607
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:15.360
and on and on. I mean, it's very frightening for people. It's

608
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:19.519
just it's such a good part.
I appreciate it. I'm glad you do

609
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:24.199
that. I learned a few things
from the book, but one that more

610
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:28.480
than a few, one that sticks
out in my mind. And I hope

611
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:35.760
I'm pronouncing the word right. When
you're talking about like the description of the

612
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:42.280
creature itself, you talked to believe
the word is kathemerle, cathemeral, catemeral.

613
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:45.400
Okay, can you kind of I
think it might be interesting that if

614
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:49.519
you could kind of explain what that
what that kind of means, is the

615
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:53.960
first time that I'd ever seen that
really talked about. I thought it was

616
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:59.800
fascinating. Well, it was coined
fairly recently. It's not a very old

617
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:04.480
term. I'm pretty sure it was
Ian Tattersall. In fact, I think

618
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:09.559
I referenced Tattersall. I'm pretty sure
Ian Tattersall coined the term. If I'm

619
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:15.280
wrong, I'll have to check back
and see. But I was first introduced

620
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:20.199
to that term from BFR investigated in
Dennis Fole because I didn't know there was

621
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:25.880
a technical term for that sort of
activity cycle within a twenty four hour window.

622
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.199
And so Dennis Foll had described him
once like, oh, well if

623
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:35.960
you and he said that things that
they were finding in other areas, you

624
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:37.360
know, because I was living in
the Northwest at the time when I first

625
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:38.880
spoke to him, and he said, oh, yeah, well, we're

626
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:43.320
finding just like John Green's database shows
like they're active at day and night,

627
00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:46.679
which you know, you're getting that
from a whole lot of reports from many

628
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:50.480
all of the continent, he said, but even here in this little area

629
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:54.039
where we're focusing, these individuals seem
to be just active at periods like throughout

630
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:59.039
the day and the night. You
know, it's like activity punctuated by inactivity

631
00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:02.480
fall back. And you know,
I think people are starting to realize that

632
00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:08.280
many animals function that way. Animals
that we thought were primarily diurnal or primarily

633
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:13.719
nocturnal or cropuscular. Oh, they
only move at dawn and dusk. I

634
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:17.199
mean, I think game cameras changed
that a lot, because you have game

635
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:21.079
cameras and it's like, oh,
there's bears, you know, at the

636
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:22.760
brightest, hottest part of the day, up moving around. Oh there's bears

637
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:25.159
at three in the morning moving around. Oh there's bears, you know,

638
00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:29.079
right before dark. Oh there's bears
after first light. I mean, they're

639
00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:34.840
just moving around in these periods of
what seemed to be pretty cathmral you know,

640
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:39.800
lifestyles. So I don't know who
necessarily, like which disciplines, whether

641
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:45.159
it's you know, ethology or biology, or who would actually determine whether an

642
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:47.559
animal falls strictly within that category.
If it's that's just sort of a broad

643
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:52.960
category. But it does seem to
apply to sasquatches, and but again,

644
00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:57.000
other animals seem to fit that bill
too. I mean, I've seen that

645
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:00.280
with wild hogs on game cameras,
and obviously, you know, we all

646
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:04.480
know that cats, you know,
many mammalian predators hunt at night. But

647
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:07.519
I've gotten an equal number of bobcats
during the day that I've gotten at night

648
00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:12.760
on game cameras. So I think
it's a term that applies to more of

649
00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:17.199
the animal world than we might have
realized before we had sort of surveillance systems

650
00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:22.280
in the woods. W these things
are really up to you know, it's

651
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:28.800
it's I was like, man,
that's cool. Was there a section of

652
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:34.760
the book that you were very apprehensive
to write about, and you're like,

653
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:37.159
I don't know if I should put
this in. I don't know how it's

654
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:40.639
going to be received, or maybe
that wasn't the case at all, and

655
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:44.639
you're like, hey, let's let's
go for all of this. No,

656
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:47.679
sere's a there were a few.
I mean, it's really hard to do

657
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:57.679
Carl Jung's ideas about what you know, heat collective unconscious and archetype. It's

658
00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:00.719
hard to do that in short section. And so you know, I parsed

659
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:07.199
it down as much as I could, but it's it's very difficult to fully

660
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:14.079
I mean, you know, like
this collection the archetypes and the collective unconscious

661
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:19.599
is it's pretty and that's not all
he wrote about those concepts, and so

662
00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:22.920
to try to make sense of it
in the context of the references that I

663
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:27.960
was using. Of course, when
it's first introduced is in the first chapter,

664
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:34.559
when we're talking about various sort of
or alternative options of the sasquash being

665
00:45:34.599 --> 00:45:37.880
like a product of the human mind
or the human psyche. It's like,

666
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:42.320
well, some people have proposed this, you know that that it's something you

667
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:45.159
know that's innate within us, i
e. Some some element of the collective

668
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:50.840
unconscious or some archetypical form or motif, and so trying to parse that down

669
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:53.639
and do it justice was really hard
because there's so much there. And then

670
00:45:53.639 --> 00:46:00.119
it gets revisited a more in depth
in a later chapter that's sort of the

671
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:06.400
elaborated sasquats. We're sort of elaborating
out these biological or psychological models and then

672
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:10.280
seeing how they merge together. We'll
be back with more big Foot society after

673
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:19.239
these words from our sponsors. So
that was pretty arduous. And then obviously

674
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:22.440
there's a chapter about you know,
these sort of categories. I try to

675
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:27.400
make the analogy that like, well, we have this this territory, this

676
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:30.119
conceptual territory that we're trying to map. You know, you always hear it

677
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:32.480
said like, well, the map
is not the territory of the maps like

678
00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:37.360
a representation of the territory, and
it can be there can be errors on

679
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:39.400
the map. And so I stuck
with that analogy to say, well,

680
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:44.719
let's look at people that are trying
to map this space, the cartographers,

681
00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:47.920
you know, and there's a lot
of people with great intentions who make errors.

682
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:51.719
We all do. No one's immune
to error, like none of us,

683
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:54.880
you know, you can't do some
inventory of everything we've ever done or

684
00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:59.599
said and find no errors. Of
course we make mistakes or faux pause or

685
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:02.159
well intentioned errors. But then of
course you do have faxers and people that

686
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:07.360
introduce intentional, you know, false
landmarks onto these maps, and then you

687
00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:12.519
have people that dismiss them for all
the wrong reasons, and so they ort

688
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:15.079
of erase these landmarks, so to
speak. And then there's people that try

689
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:19.159
to, oh, here's a big
blank space. No one seems to stake

690
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:22.920
the flag here, yet let me, and then they'll exploit those places.

691
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:28.039
And so that was a little tricky
to write because I didn't want it to

692
00:47:28.039 --> 00:47:35.960
be cynical. I mean, some
things have to be necessarily maybe critical would

693
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.320
be the word, but not necessarily
trying to criticize as much as I am

694
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:44.000
trying to illuminate. But then I
felt like the next chapter, which is

695
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:46.440
the final chapter, is very optimistic, and it's very much you know,

696
00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:52.280
the path forward reasons to be optimistic. The meaning that can be found in

697
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:58.360
any pursuit, this one, you
know, is no different Pursuing the sasquashs

698
00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:00.280
can be just as meaningful as pursuing
you know, other endeavors. And so

699
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:06.000
that one was a little hard to
write because it was it felt like it

700
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:08.440
could get cynical at times if I
wasn't being careful. So I tried really

701
00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:12.920
hard to not be cynical. But
then the next one, being optimistic,

702
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:16.400
I think balanced it out. Hopefully
you can tell me, because it's hard

703
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:21.800
to be I can't read it as
an outsider. You know, the chapter

704
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:25.159
that you're referring to with the map
analogy. At the beginning, I was

705
00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:29.719
like, I don't know if he's
going to get through this minefield without exploding

706
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:34.400
in it like you made it through
is really like I was like, Wow,

707
00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:38.159
that was that was intense but very
well done, and yeah, it's

708
00:48:38.199 --> 00:48:45.360
all it's it's one of the best
parts of the book I in my opinion,

709
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:49.719
I mean, because there's a lot
of truth in there that makes you

710
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:53.880
think, you know, and especially
if you know a lot about the community,

711
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:59.719
it really makes you think, you
know, what's the motivation between behind

712
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:05.519
what the people that you know,
why they're trying to find Sasquatch, what's

713
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:09.480
their motivation? And really if they're
trying to find Sasquat or if they're just

714
00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:15.320
trying to appear as if they're trying
to find Yeah, that's it can be

715
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:23.639
a frustrating thing, and and it
is funny because the other funny thing is

716
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:29.480
like I was like, well,
it should I worry about some people being

717
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:34.039
you know, offended by that,
because it's not really an accusation. It's

718
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.400
just an observation that, well,
there are some people who are who have

719
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:43.079
the appearance of being heavily involved,
but in fact, like all their energy

720
00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:45.440
goes into creating the appearance of being
heavily involved. And then I realize,

721
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:49.840
like, oh, they won't be
offended because they don't read books, so

722
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:52.079
I don't have to worry about it, you know what I mean, Like

723
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:57.199
seriously, but it's true they're trying
to contend with whether or not the Sasquatch

724
00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:59.840
exists, and if it exists,
what it could be. You know,

725
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:02.360
they're not wrestling with those questions.
They're worried about other things. It sounds

726
00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:06.519
like I'll never read this, you
know, so yeah, yeah, And

727
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:09.760
I'm not flaming people name or anything. I mean, there's was just categories

728
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:14.159
of people that have been around since
the beginning. If there was anything I

729
00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:17.519
didn't put in there, there was
one section where I talk about sort of

730
00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:23.199
two of the the original luminaries,
I would say, and how divergent their

731
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:27.239
paths were in terms of the way
that they conducted themselves, the way they

732
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:30.320
presented themselves, and their sort of
impact on the subject. And then I

733
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:35.159
thought, now I won't I won't
leave that in there just because it was

734
00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:42.119
it wasn't necessarily the kindest about one
of those people, So I'll just leave

735
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:46.599
it at that. You know,
I totally get it that that section made

736
00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:52.679
me kind of I think pretty deep
about some stuff too. Do you think

737
00:50:52.800 --> 00:51:05.199
that as a as a research community
we are maybe well, I want to

738
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:07.639
be careful how I say it,
because I don't want to trigger algorithms,

739
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:17.679
kind of making it so we'll never
never reach the goal by cloaking all of

740
00:51:17.719 --> 00:51:22.239
our research areas so that we are
the only ones that know where they are

741
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:31.480
and there's no central, you know, area of knowledge because no one's sharing

742
00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:36.840
because they want to know. They
want to have all the glory for themselves.

743
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:42.440
Do you think we're the phases,
pros and cons. Yeah, there's

744
00:51:42.519 --> 00:51:45.599
there's costs and benefits to everything.
And then obviously, like if you're completely

745
00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:52.079
forthcoming about your specific research areas,
let's say, like where you're spending the

746
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:58.639
most time hoping to either encounter physical
evidence or sign or a living sasquatch itself.

747
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:02.440
If you're a fourth right about that, you wouldn't be surprised if someone

748
00:52:02.679 --> 00:52:07.360
eventually played a prank on you or
hoaxed you, right, And so of

749
00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:12.880
course there's a benefit to not disclosing
that information, but there might be some

750
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.840
cost. But I mean, for
the most part, it's like, well,

751
00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:19.320
you know, I'm doing stuff in
North Georgia, East Tennessee, western

752
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:22.639
North Carolina. Like it's not going
to do me any good to tell people

753
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:24.639
in the Pacific Northwest where I am, because it's not like they can get

754
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:28.719
out here and help me anyway.
They'd be looking at the same Google Maps

755
00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:32.360
data that I am trying to make
decisions. And so there probably are some

756
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:38.639
costs to not being able to share
certain things and not being able to communicate

757
00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:44.000
things. But I think the biggest
part of that is like, yeah,

758
00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:50.360
people are right to protect themselves from
you know, because you're trying to control

759
00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:52.079
as many variables as possible, which
is like, well, hey, I'm

760
00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:58.400
reasonably certain that if I heard this
sort of this category sound in this place

761
00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:01.639
or found this sort of impression in
this place. I'm fairly certain that it

762
00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:07.519
wasn't made for my you know,
detection versus like if I talked all the

763
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:12.000
time about exactly where I was going, then anything I'd heard, I'd be

764
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:14.360
like, well, is that someone
who's like, hey, that we got

765
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:16.599
to get that pro it guy?
You don't go knock trees or whatever.

766
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:22.400
You know, So I can understand
that sort of that protective part of it.

767
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:29.159
But you know, the I would
say, maybe the other big part

768
00:53:29.199 --> 00:53:35.119
of that is that I wish that
now for me. I can't I can't

769
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:38.239
speak to what I don't want to
be the guy just complained about in the

770
00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:40.760
beginning of this show by saying,
like, what you need to do is

771
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:46.639
what I have chosen to do for
myself. And you know, again it

772
00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:51.960
has pros and cons to me.
Mostly pros is that, you know,

773
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:57.519
if you were to familiarize yourself with
like categories of evidence and then sort of

774
00:53:57.559 --> 00:54:00.480
identify what is seems to be like
the best in class of each category,

775
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:05.360
you know, in terms of tracks, while some of them are extraordinarily detailed,

776
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:08.000
you know, like the grays Harbor
County tracks, like they're right there

777
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:14.800
here, you see all five toes. You see the sort of like you

778
00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:19.280
know, the pony prominences in certain
places, et cetera. Now those have

779
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:23.199
never constituted proof. They're still sort
of contested or debated to this day.

780
00:54:23.440 --> 00:54:25.840
So for me, it's like,
well, if I find a track or

781
00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:31.800
track way or something like that of
lesser quality, lesser detail, let's say,

782
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:37.199
you know where you know, they're
just soggy impressions in the duff.

783
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:42.199
You know, I would of course
document it and as much as I could,

784
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:45.039
But would I release it? Would
I publish it? It's like,

785
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:49.800
well, why, Because if something
that's much higher in quality, higher resolution

786
00:54:50.679 --> 00:54:54.800
doesn't constitute you know, compelling evidence
to many people, then why should I

787
00:54:54.840 --> 00:55:00.440
expect that something of much lesser quality
wouldn't be compelling? So I would spend

788
00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:07.679
more time defending something rather than like, Okay, well i've seen these tracks.

789
00:55:07.719 --> 00:55:09.639
I should keep coming back here.
Now I have a reason to invest

790
00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:14.320
more time and energy in this particular
spot because I found these impressions, and

791
00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:16.960
maybe I'll get better tracks, you
know, an excellent line of tracks.

792
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:21.800
And I do the same thing with
audio recordings. I mean I do use

793
00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:23.679
audio recorders in the field. I
just record a night at a time,

794
00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:28.239
I don't record for weeks or months
or something like that, and I've heard

795
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:32.320
vocalizations and sometimes I've recorded them,
but you have something as clear as the

796
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:38.400
ohio, how you know. And
there's other examples of that recording that sort

797
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:43.840
of vocalization rather you know, big
bellowing, moaning howls, but not many

798
00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:45.360
of them are as close and clear
as that. So it's like, okay,

799
00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:50.440
well, if I got one that
was noisier and seemed to be further

800
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:52.320
away in fainter where it's like,
oh hey, well I ran it through

801
00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:55.119
thirty filters, but listen to it
with headphones on and make sure the volumes

802
00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:58.039
all the way. Like, I
don't want to do that. I don't

803
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:02.360
want to defend something that's not equal
to or better than the best in its

804
00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:07.320
class. And so the con of
that is, like you know, the

805
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:09.639
cost versus benefit. Well, the
cost of that is is that I've had

806
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:15.880
to go around saying like I've been
trying to get better evidence for twenty years

807
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:20.199
and here's my collection of zero things. But I can live with that,

808
00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:23.000
you know, because I would prefer
to say, okay, well, if

809
00:56:23.079 --> 00:56:28.159
I want to put something forth,
I know it's defensible because it you know,

810
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:34.960
the quality is so high, and
I think people do themselves. They

811
00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:39.519
set themselves up for a lot of
headache and heartache by constantly feeling the need

812
00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:45.679
in that community to either appease people
who are paying attention or very often to

813
00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:50.280
compete with other researchers and say like, oh, I've got this entire catalog

814
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:52.239
of evidence, and we've all seen
those sorts of things, and it's like

815
00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:55.920
red circle after red circle, and
broken twig after broken twig, and dive

816
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:59.599
it in the ground after diving in
the ground, and some of those maybe

817
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:02.400
sasquatch related, but like when you
look at those pictures, like, well,

818
00:57:02.440 --> 00:57:07.199
I'll never know, I'll never know
if you didn't break that twig or

819
00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:09.320
not, and so let's save it. So for me, like, that's

820
00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:15.159
that's part of why I don't necessarily
like quote unquote share with the community.

821
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:19.679
Is like I don't have anything I
feel is worth hearing yet, but I'll

822
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:22.239
keep trying for it, and if
I never get it, that's fine,

823
00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:28.119
because I'm having a blast along the
way. But so I think a lot

824
00:57:28.119 --> 00:57:32.880
of what is being shared within the
community is what also drives all the animosity

825
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:37.199
is that you know because there is
a section in that chapter about the value

826
00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:40.840
of claims and evidence, Like what
has value to one person because they were

827
00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:45.239
there, so they have a personal
connection to it, oftentimes has no value

828
00:57:45.280 --> 00:57:49.320
to anyone who wasn't there, because
again they look at it and they go,

829
00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:51.920
well, how do I know you
didn't break that twig? Or like,

830
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:53.519
listen to these knocks I recorded,
It's like, well, how do

831
00:57:53.599 --> 00:57:57.960
I know that's not you in your
backyard hitting a tree? Versus when you

832
00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:01.639
hear a big, powerful vocalist like
the Ohio, How no one thinks that

833
00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:05.599
that's like a dude standing out there. It's like, what is that?

834
00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:09.320
That's pretty strange. It sounds like
an animal. Doesn't sound synthesized or mechanical.

835
00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:13.760
What kind of animal is that?
You know? So that's really remarkable.

836
00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:20.639
So I think sometimes sharing is the
driver of all that animosity, you

837
00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:25.320
know what I mean? That is
so interesting? Is there? You know,

838
00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:30.440
Let's say you have a person reading
your book. Is there something that

839
00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:37.360
you're hoping that they take away or
changes them in a certain way after they're

840
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:45.320
done reading your book? I hope
that it makes if someone's already pretty invested

841
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:49.159
in the sasquatch subject, and again, like a devoted student, I hope

842
00:58:49.159 --> 00:58:52.280
it expands and they think, oh
wow, there's more here than I was

843
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:54.320
aware of, and there's things I
didn't know about. And I do hope

844
00:58:54.360 --> 00:59:00.800
it makes people a bit more charitable
and generous, because you try to say,

845
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:06.480
like again, those ways to sort
of look at each other more generously,

846
00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:08.679
more charitably, not so negatively.
I mean, the only negative things

847
00:59:08.679 --> 00:59:13.960
I call out are like the obvious
exploiters and hoaxers and Charlatan's and people that

848
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:19.159
are genuinely bad actors. And then
for the lay person, you know,

849
00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:22.480
someone's brand new to the subject,
I just want them to come away and

850
00:59:22.519 --> 00:59:25.679
go, like, I had no
idea, there was so much to this

851
00:59:27.519 --> 00:59:30.280
that it's not just you know,
a few campfire stories and a couple of

852
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:35.320
plaster casts and that one grainy film. You know, that's that's what the

853
00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:37.320
rest of the world thinks it is. And so I hope they come away

854
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:40.079
and go, wow, there's a
lot here. There's really this is really

855
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:46.400
a question worth answering, hopefully.
Man Matt, It has been a fun

856
00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:54.079
time having you on. I would
really recommend people go and get a copy

857
00:59:54.280 --> 01:00:00.079
of your book and check it out
for themselves, so erect amenda. Are

858
01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:06.079
there other ways that people can keep
up to date with what you are doing?

859
01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:08.519
Oh? Yeah, you can go
to if you want to reach out,

860
01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:12.920
It's at Matt Prewitt online dot com
and there's a contact form there.

861
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:16.000
And then about the only social media
I use for Bigfoot related stuff is Twitter.

862
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:21.480
I think it's at improve at Bigfoot. I tweet very infrequently and so

863
01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:24.480
most of the time that I'm on
social media it's for Bigfoot and Beyond the

864
01:00:24.519 --> 01:00:28.119
Cliff and Bobo, so you can
always reach out through that podcast too,

865
01:00:28.119 --> 01:00:31.280
And then I do co host the
bonus show that we do called Beyond big

866
01:00:31.280 --> 01:00:35.440
Foot and Beyond, so can hear
me on there as well? How do

867
01:00:35.480 --> 01:00:37.320
you How do you hear the bonus
show, Matt? Oh, it's on

868
01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:40.960
Patreon. So if you got to
like Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and

869
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:45.239
click membership or in the show notes
of any of the Bigfoot and Beyond episodes,

870
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:49.000
there's a link to the It's five
dollars a month and there's a we

871
01:00:49.119 --> 01:00:53.280
drop an episode every Thursday. So
that's been going on for next month will

872
01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:55.920
be a year, so we'll be
celebrating a year or the bonus show,

873
01:00:55.960 --> 01:01:00.800
and it's it's pretty fun. It's
less filtered. Its yeah, it's good

874
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:05.719
stuff. Bobo is less filtered.
Let's say it. There you go,

875
01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:09.079
man, Thank you so much for
coming on, Matt, this has been

876
01:01:09.159 --> 01:01:13.679
a good time. Thanks for having
me. Really appreciate. Jeremiah, thank

877
01:01:13.719 --> 01:01:20.039
you. You're a Bigfoot Society article
is to provide a platform for those that

878
01:01:20.119 --> 01:01:25.119
have encountered Bigfoot to share their encounter
in a safe and respected environment. But

879
01:01:25.199 --> 01:01:30.639
we need to hear your story.
If you've experienced something that you just can't

880
01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:37.639
explain, please send me an email
at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com.

881
01:01:37.719 --> 01:01:40.599
Then we can start the conversation.
And I know a lot of you have

882
01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:46.840
not shared your encounter at all.
It's been twenty years and it's time that

883
01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:51.760
you get this off your chest and
then you can get some well deserved for

884
01:01:51.800 --> 01:01:55.199
rest, because I know you haven't
been sleeping. I understand what you're going

885
01:01:55.239 --> 01:01:58.840
through, and I appreciate every one
of you listening.