All of a sudden, there was a Bigfoot in front of our car!

0:03 Welcome to the big Foot Society. In this classic episode from twenty twenty one, I talked to Jackie Talks about her intense face to face Bigfoot encounter in Humboldt County, California. If you've experienced something similar to what Jackie has, or have more information regarding Bigfoot or other cryptids in the same area, please reach out to me immediately after this episode. Remember, your encounter could be the key to unlocking this mystery once and for all, so please don't hesitate to contact me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. I have the privilege of talking to Jackie Talks for me this afternoon. For her, it's this night because she is over in the UK. Jackie is really a cryptozoologist, a bigfoot researcher. She has a psychology degree, all sorts of stuff going on. Is there anything else you would like to add to that as well, Jackie or I'm also trying cancer therapist, so that's been quite good in the research as well. Oh yeahnesses as well? And yeah, oh totally yeah, yeah, I am extremely interested in that. How has that helped with your witness interviewing? I think especially my therapy experience and someone from my first psychology degree. If somebody's fabricating stuff, you intend to tell very subtle, nonverbal. Sometimes they look at you two intenttensely. That's one thing they'll do. It also depends though people may look I don't really know about real

1:33 linguistic programming. When people are thinking about things from their imagine. It depends whether they're left or right handed. But most people they'll look down for recall and the other the left or right for recall, and then opposite for things from imagination. And you've got to deem, really, what's their dominant brain side actually tell whether they're trying to fabricate stuff. Just you can do little tests of stuff though, oh man, all sorts of things you can do really, And I think it's also just checking with a somebody's a credible witness, not necessarily about what work background they've got, but we can help really and what checking up in the community. Are they seen as a reliable person?

2:14 And I think the big thing with multiple witnesses as well, if you've got multiple witnesses, and that's really power. I'm going to be aware of everything I do in this interview. After that conversation, I find myself looking up a lot when I'm interviewing. Does looking up mean anything particularly? Usually or well, it usually means I know. The old thing they used to say about teachers would say to the kids, it's the answer is not on the ceiling because but actually is because it helps them to spell when they look upwards. Interesting wired and what yeah, so actually help kids off? But actually it was actually helps them spell. I was involved in some experiments and I got wired up by a psychologists. Really yeah, it's quite When I was at University of psychology degree it was quite fun there. Do you mind me asking? So you're in the UK, what what part generally over there?

3:12 Just for context, I'm presently living in Devon, which is a south part of the Southwest. It's also where right, not far from me, where they filmed some of Warhorse as well. Oh yeah, sure, yeah, we get quite Cornwall, quite a lot of stuff filmed, and the last scene of Apocalypto when they see the conclaxt on the beach is actually filmed in Cornwall. Here it's beautiful over there. I've bent over to Ireland two times, to the western coast Galway area, and it's just such a beautiful. Ireland is definitely laid back. I haven't been to England yet, but someday, either that or Scotland. They have Scottish heritage, but you have such a beautiful nothing like being able to walk up to old medieval forts that don't have fences around them and just enjoy it, like it's just oh, yeah, we've got some really old sort of Celtic and yeah, exactly Neolithic thoughts as well. Quite in America would have that lockdown and because we don't trust anyone, and it's like over there, it's like whatever, it's really cool. I'm curious. How did you get into cryptozoology. What's your story there? A very weird begin As a child, I used to watch a series Arts Clock's Mysterious World, and it had all different strange phenomena, but one of them I remember as a child about must have been watching Patty Very Famous and thought, oh, I'd love to do that, but never thought anything would a big button. But I never seen Bob Gimblin as well,

4:44 a very younger Bob Gimblin in that yeah, back in the eighties, and oh wow, I never thought I'd get involved with that. And then I had a really strange encounter. I was reading the Fourteen Times. Do you get the fourteen Times over there? No? But I have who's my contact? I have a contact. I believe his name is Peter Laws. Peter so he got me an interview with Richard Freeman, which was fantastic, and then British cryptozoology is amazing. It's it makes us look like we're in the wild West, and you guys are super locked in, and it's you're going for it and you're all over the world and you're taping stuff and it's you don't care if it's on TV or not. TV doesn't matter. It's very respectable. I respect you guys over there. Yeah. I think people are very dedicated here. Oh yeah, well I think we have because I know in America, I notice people don't get much time off work, a lot less than they do in England. So we have longer holidays and I think that makes a difference. But able to do that. But going back to Richard Freeman, actually that's the way I got into it. I was reading the fourteen Times and it was this article on the Mongolian death worm, which is yes, got to the end and there's a picture of a Gothy looking guy next to dragon, and I thought, I thought he looked a bit scary. Anyway, I expect I had at the time, and it was twenty past ten at night or what the dog quit. I walked to the end of my road, which is near the train big main train station next Tora in Devon across the road, and then walked along and then suddenly the

6:15 guy whose picture I've sit in the magazine walks past me. And this is a magazine. So I did this take and I swung around and I said, oh, excuse me, Riches and we went yeah, and he's looking at me strange. And my dog was a bit scary looking, but actually really friendly and he does like dogs. But and I said, do you write for the fourteen Times? He goes yeah, and I went, oh my god, I've just been reading absolutely freaked me out. So we've just stood weird. Anyway, About six months later the train station had a news agent now and now I was buying the fourteen Times and two hands went to grab a copy, and so I was the person who met me on the street. He said, oh, yeah, I remember you, and then he invited me to the comment difference the Yeah, then there's a weird weekend.

7:05 There's one held in Devon, there's no one held up a North as well in Manchester. And then I met various people. I think that second content I went to. I met Adam Davies and he was going out and been by Laurie Simmons to a big foot in so he said, oh, you can come if you want to. So I joined them and the other people from the Central forty Zoology went out and not look back in so seriously got into it. Wow. Man, the synchronous, like the coincidences and synchronicities for that all to happen is wild chances. Yeah, I didn't realize he lived in Exeter as well, but the chance of me reading the article and he was literally just past the bottom of street was freaky. Such a cool story. Yeah, it's almost meant to be getting he's one of my best mates now nice yeah, yeah, and me and other friends with me and stuff and yeah, I've been like to North America. I've been to Carbadina, Bulgaria, which is there in Russia looking for the almast Oh yeah, yeah. So I've been to Nepal as well, interviewing people about YETI sightings. And although the last time I was there, I've got a possible interview with a professor there is I think he does economic stuff, but he's also written books on Yetti's and he had a theory that Yeti's have a migratory route, which is interesting because there's some theory with bigfoots that they go from

8:39 the mountain to the coast in the winter, which is I thought was really interesting. And the bookseller said, I just happened to know him. I'll arrange you to meet him. And just as he was arranging the Nepal earthquake here, so I was in the earthquake and we just had to get out of there because really there was still quite happening. Yeah, I could meet him, but we're meeting people who'd had like rocks thrown at them by Jettis and my friends. I just meeting a friend, my friend's brother there. Suddenly my friend, who is a sherphard, died and he he basically hides some guides and he said they came back absolutely shaking with fear, like crying like children. He said, goodness, and they come up from they were a purna circuit and he said, what's the matter, what's marrying. He said he ended up hugging them, which he would normally do. It's not really he said that they were like a little children crying, he said, and he said the manner, and he said, big man monkey threw rocks of us. And he said how big were the rocks? And they basically the coffee table size, So it wasn't going to be a macaque. And they said what did it look like? And they said taller than any white man. They get quite a few Americans in Kapman, about six foot seven and they said, they said white man, and they said it had no tails. So I'm pretty sure it was a YETI from the description, but he rocked. The massive guy in Exeter actually had sin a yetti. When he was thirteen, Dad climbing lower peaks. He was there this forest area

10:13 and he saw something standing up and he thought, what's that? He thought it was a bear, and suddenly this thing panicked and as it was on all fours, and he described it having a face like a cat. So he said, you've got what the bear knows, but the rest of its hair and flat face. And he said it was standing up right and he looked man like, and sudden it went on all fours and panics and sort of running off falls, and it gamboled him over. He just slightly staggered a bit and fell backwards, and then all their has grabbed his camera off and said, like this thing. So, yeah, this was just a casual conversation with a guy in my town. YETI as well, So I love it. That's amazing. Oh man, wow, you have really gotten to yourself into some crazy adventures, haven't you. Yeah, that chance meeting.

11:05 Yeah, the one in Russia was quite I've obviously done not big but stuff that's my area, but the one in Russia was quite interesting. Originally, I think they wondered what we were because there was no other Westerners in the area or anything. Really had the police come and sit with us, and a detective kept joining us every night, and I thought I were going to get arrested. And then he said, we thought you might be some spies or something, but we realized you were just crazy scientists. And they all completely believed in it. They all said, I don't know why you're interested in it. It's just a normal animal. No way, they view it as a normal animal, Yeah, said loads of them. We don't know what why you're so interested. Yeah, they were just amused as to why we'd be out there looking for it. They said, why didn't you look for bears whatever. They just couldn't understand where we were looking for this thing, because they knew it existed. Yeah, and I have this really bizarre conversation. We interviewed this guy who was an ex priest okay, and he'd been with this was the time of Iron Curtain, and I don't know what he'd done, but he ended up in jail and no longer a priest.

12:13 But he was telling us, and this guy was quite incredible. It has been a priest telling us how his grandmother used to have one in the garden and our mastery, which is the master know, it's a bit my friends have sinnate to my friends Ukrainian friends, and they said it looked a bit like nostril epithecus that was the closest to lucy mat And he was basically saying his grandmother had one coming to the garden and it was throwing a few things to start with. When she fed it. It was a female one and then it got quite tame and it'd sit next to her grandmother and she fed it and then actually, this could be quite useful because it could be aggressive, but it's okay with me. So she tamed it and she put straw down in the shed and it used to sleep there. So she basically ended up with this hominid guard doc. Okay, So anybody would literally throw rocks at them. Yeah, this is funny because so I did an interview last week with a researcher from Alaska Fairbanks area, and she shared a story with me from the eighteen sixties that hasn't passed down in her area. It's not in a book at all that she's aware of, where it's very similar to that where there was an older grandmother where there was pretty much like a younger bigfoot and it became almost like her son and was helping out, and like after she was gone, it just disappeared. I got told the one up at ocean shores by the First Nation people said there was an elderly chap

13:48 who lived on the edge of the ocean shaws who used to like feed this quite a large I think it was a male big foot and sit on the bench with it and then regularly meet in every night handed food. And then he said the old man disappeared. Nobody saw it, but he said, oh yeah, we all remember that. It was just like a normal thing. Yeah, no more thing for them. You had mentioned that you've gone to North America for expeditions as well. Do you mind sharing about some of that. Yeah, quite a few times. And the first time that Davies and Laurie Simmons and we got the we got the sort of camera trap photo that's quite controversial. I really don't know what that was, but we did have you can see it on YouTube Extreme Expeditions. It comes up, and we did have one of our members is quite stocky Crauch, in the same position. But somebody else's analysis has said from judging Dave's height compared to this thing was about eight feet tall. It's quite but we don't know. We didn't know whether it was. I think we were just open minded with is it one of us sort of sleeping bag or it just looked too large.

14:58 Very strange that it was just no footprints because the groun's just really solid. It just dust even get But we did see about ten to fifteen miles away from there, we did find some really good big foot foot prints which we could tell were cast. Some of those got some okay cool, and you could see it was something really heavy because I was in lud, I jump off a log and so whether I recreate the depth and I was just nowhere near the deck quite heavy and you could actually see where it's toad like crunched down trying to get hold as it went up. It was slow, but they were pretty and they got the one after the other. They're not side by side, they're like one after the other, and that's they look quite authentic. And I also heard what I think was a howl. Yeah, just as I was getting my tents. The others had gone over the other side, but I could hear what sounded like. How was it like?

15:52 Are you familiar with the Ohio howl from the early nineties, like that one? Yes, it's the one you hear on the TV shows. Yeah, that's yeah. Yeah. But the big sitement stuff really starts to happen with twenty fourteen and went out with Tom Cantrial. Tom. I've met Tom on the first one. Yeah, totally cool and we went. Quite a few of us met up and we went just outside Orleans. There's a logging road up there is the os or a g Road anyway, the Orleans to come in the name anyway. It was in twenty fourteen, and we got there and you could clearly see what looked like big footprints within minutes over the antills if big footprints, thought, whoa, this is good. And then about it's about three or four days in. We were regularly would drive to Willow Creek just to get a meal, which is about forty miles away. Now the logging road's really good. It's oh do you call it? And what you call it's like gravelly stuff, but it can drive quite fast on it quite safely, and then bits of campsite you have to go really slow.

16:57 But we were going along. There was twenty four in the afternoon and I suddenly see from a distance, and I really annoyed because it was that I was just charging my camcorder batteries and all the times that I've had it jammed in with my next support thing. Oh no, these things from a distance and they looked like two men in all in one suit stop suits with a hood up, but bare feet. And I said to Tom, God, what are these idiots doing killing their feet on there? God? Do you think they're drug runners? Aren't they he starts laughing and he said, what are you here to look for or something that's awesome? Yeah, yeah, better that though. They then ran out into burnt trees and then panicked because they couldn't get covered because it was literally burnt out for miles on the one side, but not on the other. Sure, And then they suddenly came back in front of the car, and I'm talking, I got my head turned tom I heard him yell and suddenly they're right in front of the car and he slammed on the brakes and manages to stop and he's skidding because it's like quite gravelly and for us literally for about a second and a half, they just stood there because they don't know where to go. And you tell them, we are panicking. They were like wrapping their faces like twitching or the one you could I were just looking at them, you know, flicking to the one I was looking at mainly, and you could sell their faces twitching. They were that close. There were panicking. They didn't know what to do, and then they shot down a really steep slope, which afterwards,

18:30 it's funny people do this that I've read it very consistent. People will see them and not stop because your brain go not it doesn't know what to do. My brains also wouldn't have said to stop because think they're just really weird looking for your brain's trying to rationalize it's going to be something else. Yeah, but also you don't. But for Tom it was the novelty. He hardly like, oh yeah, glad you've seen them sort of thing. He hardly reacted because Tom sent them loads of times. And Allah Leach was in the back as well well, and she she didn't react too much because she's she's to them as well. But they were like Leach Collins. I've never pronounced her name right. I'll check though and let you know. But Alla, I know is Ala, but collect that's it I think. Anyway, she was in the back as well. She's been half asleep, so she woke up just to see them shooting over this slope. But it was a close up. You could see the It wasn't fir. It was like hair all over, just like this, all over apart from the face, which was a lot bearer, and the hands looked a lot bare and some of the feet a little bit on the chest, but you could see it.

19:44 The face was really not their eyes were a lot bigger than I expected. They were all dark any white at all. They were quite spooky looking eyes, very deep deep brow, ridge pointed head blood his dome's head like a gorilla subgectal cust possibly and mass shoulders and shoulders are about to in our foot across. Oh, very but it was almost like an inverted triangle. So they've got the very broad shoulder. And the legs were incredibly thin. You know, they weren't stocky like they could train some images. They were like human's legs. That's the top was a bit like a rugby player in England or I don't know what you call rugby there, but the rugby players don't have much neck. They're very muscilar. You couldn't say much neck as well. Yeah, yeah, remind me how far away were they when you're taking a look at them, I reckon, I said fifteen feet. Tom said twenty feet, and I said they were six and a half and seven foot tall. Tom said there were seven and seven and a half feet all these exportces. So he's probably going to be and he's an ex logger, he's probably better at judging distances. Sure, yeah, you said northern California area, because you were driving into Bluff Creek. Yeah, it was basically we found that afterwards. It's two and a half miles from black Clak where we saw the Wow humbold I think this Humble County something like that. Yeah, yeah, Oh that's fascinating, curious. I don't think you mentioned this.

21:14 You remember color scheme at all. They were like very dark. It was almost like black, but like slaty gray. But I think they were black because it was very dusty. I think the dust have given me of slaty gray, but I think they're actually black or very dark round. But they looked almost like slaty gray. We have Welsh late and that's like a very dark gray. Seeing So looking at the figures, looking at the faces, did that evoke any emotions, particularly in you. I always find that interesting. I think there's basically it's like seeing a unicorn in the middle of the road. You just go, I can't believe I'm seeing this in your brains, going oh, it can't be that. It must be drug runners.

21:55 A must be drug runners up there. You know. I was thinking, if they're wearing a big wellly suit in that weather, it was hot, it was really cold at night, was really hot in the day, they'd be black, as Tom said, they'd be blacking out. They would not cope with that heat. Your brain's rationalized, And are they just really ugly blokes? And I think, I hope I'm never going to end up in an interview with this guy. But I would describe the face like a really ugly got very similar features to him. That's amazing. Yeah, how human? Wow, that's speaking. I'll find you the net surname and hopeless on her surname. But she says some of them are actually quite had by human terms. Some of them are quite eight in summer. I say, really, collect, isn't that another researcher from the UK? Or No, she's from originally from Texas. Really, I've never heard that name before.

23:00 She's written as well experiences as a child. She and mother came across a couple and she's been interesting to check check that out. So that's interesting. They're saying that some of them were almost better looking than others, or like some of them, Yeah, the ugly ones and the pretty ones. There's who look out like I know some people have said, is it a sub breed or are they just like people. You're going to get ugly people and pretty people, and yeah, yeah, sure is there I know with Richard's that organization they sometimes would make I haven't watched you all the stuff on YouTube. They've got a lot of stuff. Is there footage available to watch of that expedition or is like a private thing the one I did with Tom?

23:48 I have got what it's fun. I've y busy with work. I've not got around putting stuff together. I did do a bit of filming. Yeah, it's yeah, none of those things. Yeah, I know things, it's I get it. Yeah. I often try to get other people to film there. I have actually done filmmaking courses connected it, but not compiling it. Although I have made friends with the guy with the production company, Brian Sterlet, and we're hoping to do stuff together. He's x BBC cameraman 'st so that's that should be good. Is there is there footage of the Bigfoot or no? Okay, it's one of those things charging the camera.

24:33 But I think even if I'd have the camera there and know, people are often asked like why the one with We've got quite a lot of film with the one with Adam Davis has lady. The photo has been published. But I think the thing is when you see one there, it's like the Jeremy Holden, while I've camera from Australia, when he saw in the Randpendic acting quick to film stuff and he just dropped his camera from what I here, It's just you can't be prepared for it. You can't your brains in shock. I think if I saw one a second time, but even the second time I had the rock throwing incidents, which is highly likely to be one that was. That was just after the Sasquatch Summit. It was one of the Saturday night it was on in November a couple of years ago. And Brooklyn and saysco who films the summit. He normally works in television and film.

25:25 We always tried to do a little tiny expedition on Saturday night, go out for a couple of hours because it's prime big area there. And we asked Johnny, who runs a summit, is there anything activity and he said, yeah, we've had solid activity a couple of miles away, and he gave us the rough location. He said, yeah, we've had loads of loads of sightings of a big book. So we went out to this location and went down a little loggin road there and we just randomly choked just part of the car. I went down this loggin road probably about half a mile, and I'd see the car. I could get a thermal image of the car engine still from where I was. So we went that far but probably put a mile half a mile and it was a very small logging road, very strange actually, and we started doing the whoops. We started doing, but it were knocking the howl. I'm pretty good at the woops, and Bob scared people. They think it's the real thing, but we didn't.

26:18 It was a bit of a laugh. Really. We didn't really expect to get anything. It was raining a little, so we couldn't really use much equipment. I was using my thermal for a bit when it stopped raining. But the undergrowth was so thick the trees hadn't been thinned out, really thick. You couldn't really see through. And we carried on to in expect anything. And suddenly Brooklyn just grabs me and he goes, oh, I've just heard a growl and I can hear something in the undergrowth. And he said, I said, what was a growl like? And he said like this, and it sound I said, my god, that sounds like a silver back gorilla, because I've sat with gorillas and the sound he did was just like an annoyed gorilla sound. I thought, whoah, I said, but he also could be a bear. They did a healthy and all yees, it could be. So we were getting a little bit sick. It was such a small path. Unless you could run back to the car of something blocked your path, you'd have nowhere to go. Couldn't get through the undergrowth.

27:11 It's too thick, so a little bit panicy at this point would be quite vulnerable. And then and then you heard the undergrowth. Initially it was really quiet, though we thought it was like a raccoon, and then we heard the ground. It was a just a bit louder, but not that crack. It was like, you know, relatively quiet. But then you heard but this sound that the grunt was literally about foot above brooklyn sad, and Brooklyn's about six foot three six five, so the ground was black. So you thought, oh, this thing's too so we're starting. But it could have been a bear on its hind legs. But then we had a pine cone thrown at our feet and oh, it's got comes And I said, probably just walling off the tree, don't panic. And suddenly a little stone came right in front of my face and I thought, oh my god, it's definitely got hounds. So we were like starting to panic at this point, and I think Brooklyn did wrong thing. He called his machete out, swinging his touch. We just panicked. It was close. This thing was no more than four or five feet away. Yeah, yeah, it was that little wow. Yeah, he had a little tiny small machetes that could have been it. Yeah, it wasn't a good choice anyway, whatever it was, maybe it was a good choice. You don't know. You don't know, but it was. Whatever it was, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a human because the next thing that came hurtling through was probably something like that. It was like, but it was with such force actually, and

28:42 the ground was quite hard. It wasn't completely frozen, but it was quite hard the ground. It literally went into the ground and it smashed every stone it hit in their hard stones. And the force this thing was thrown it was like, I don't know, when do you have shot putting as a just a shot putter. I thought, oh my God, that's not a human. Initially Brooklyn shout, stop pacing around, stopped feeling around. He thought it was a human. We'd possibly set up. But the force, unless somebody had a catapult on them, randomly sat in winter, but would have been about half tent nearly eleven at night, and they wouldn't have got it through. It must have. I'm pretty sure it was a big foot.

29:26 And the growl it was like you said, this is a colleague of yours named Brooklyn. Brooklyn, he's the guy who films the Sasquat Summit. Yeah, he's normally he does like production manager stuff and all sorts of other stuff as well the television. Yeah, and I am not overly familiar with the Sasquatch Summit. Tell me a little more about that. It's really good. Everybody gets there on the Friday nights. There's a little bit of social thing there and then most of it's on the Sat. They it's very unmusical. In the English conferences, it would be wholes the whole Sunday, but people traveling long distances it can't. You can't do that in this country.

30:08 So in that country it's a bit unusual for me. But I find it literally starts about eight nine in the morning and carries on all the way through, and we find that bit of a challenge. In England, we like our breaks, so many lectures and it's really good. There's there. They often have Bob gimblin there the UK friends. No, we haven't had one yet. In the UK. Tom contrill ages and goes trying to get one started in the UK, and we do have one's general cryptosomology and unusual phenomena, but we've not had a big foot one. It'd be great if we could get one, because I'm sure we'd fill it. That'd be crazy.

30:48 Yeah, it's a US thing then the US, Yeah, Washington State. Yeah, okay, I'm going a feed back will be like, you've never heard of this, But I think it's one of the biggest conferences. That makes me feel even more amazing. Tom a great Boma. As I said, he's actually very close friends with Tom Cantrell, so I know Bob he's great. I was watching that Clark Mysterious World. I never thought I'd end up friends with Bob. Didn't go back. Oh my god, that's funny, because I wonder if that's like how everyone in America is like I watched In Search Of as a little kid. I want is that like the British equivalent, like the artist in search of? Yeah, wasn't it? Yeah exactly. Yeah, yeah, I've got that one as well that we used to get that as well. Yeah, very similar obviously, the guy who designed the satellite Yeah good per Center as well. Yeah, similar stuff.

31:57 Really, yeah, gotcha, I've to check it out. So you said you met Bob Gyman back in the eighties. Oh no, no, I saw him on this program in the eighties. Oh okay, yeah, when I was you know, about ten years old, eight, nine years old, something like that. But obviously I know him there because I've met him at the Summit. He's friends with, very close friends with Tom Cantrell is my main mentor really so yeah, really weird how I've actually got to know this guy as a child I've been watching on this thing. That's so cool. It's wonderful for me. It's such a nice and so honest as well. You meet him, and Tom said, you'll know in the first ten minutes the guy didn't fake it and really transparent guy, really incredibly honest, very religious and genuinely wants to help people. Really nice guy, and he'll say I could have been filled by Patterson. He could have set me up.

32:52 I'm pretty sure because this guy would have been in this suit for days and he probably would have been a taped by Bear and he would have got really could I'm pretty sure it was real. You'll be very honest that he could. He said, I'm pretty sure. That's so amazing. I hear a version of that from everyone that I interview that has met him, So you're definitely dead on with that. Yeah, that's cool. I have a few listeners that are starting to get into actually interviewing witnesses of maybe different types of cryptid sightings. Do you and I know we've talked about this at the beginning, but any advice for them as they start off with maybe their best practices when they start off their first interview of a witness. I think no leading questions. I think that's an important thing really with anything like that.

33:46 Don't ask leading questions. Just let the people speak, get the description first. You can ask questions later on, but just let them speak, because if somebody is confabulating, if they are making it up, given them hues what you want. So I think it's good to just let them speak, just say tell us what you saw, and just don't say anything. So I think that's and you can also for consistency in the report. Really but sometimes interesting in court. A couple of friends of mine who are judges have said inconsistency is sometimes a good thing to indicate to you through if somebody's lying. They're often rehearse the story a bit too well, and they're too consistent a little bit. And also it's in like child abuse cases, people are stressed. They're often memories not that good because when you're seeing something you're scared of, your primitive brain kicks in your low brain centers, and that's often out of time sequence. It's often not very good because that's your reptile brain is often not very it doesn't really have the concept of time or sequence.

34:53 If you've got two the person said, oh it's exactly, I can say, oh, yeah, it was about twenty two four because we both purposely look to the clock. But you get some people's stories there's too much that sort of detail, which with somebody's adrenaline going make sticky. Yeah, there's too much. That's fascinating. Yeah, No, I keep people keep encouraging me to. You need to, you absolutely need to. Oh wow, I'm really surprised you haven't. The stories you've been telling people keep telling me I need to. And I think it would be good to do book from an English person's perspective visiting America to look other people in UK you do go over to be quite good to get involved with them, really the journals.

35:46 But yeah, you could even just record yourself talking and have someone transcribe it to That might be an option to But yeah, that would be so cool. I know plenty of people that would be into reading the viewpoint of big footing in the Pacific Northwest northern California from someone from the UK. That would be so cool. And that's I don't think that book has ever been written. Yeah, I wrote quite a chunk of my experiences in Richard Freeman's Adventures in Cryptism. Oh, it's a section in there about mine, my two experiences, so they're in there. But yeah, it is quite It's that further step, isn't it. The book. It's a big challenge. And my friend Richard Freeman, he's just written loads and I just don't know how he does it. I don't know either he's Peter Lows as well. It's like the whole research behind it as well. Yeah. Yeah, Man, if we had the the same determination over here, imagine how much would be putting out in the US. Yeah, Richard is putting out some serious books.

36:55 Yeah. Is there any place that you haven't gotten to investigate yet that you would that's on the bucket list. I'd like love you town because I love to go there. It's amazing country. I've only recently allowed internet there because they're worried about corrupting people. And the prince, one of the princes there is seriously into YETI hunting program, wasn't he what's it called the one? Anyway, this English guy went out there with the team. They'd spotted a Yeti in this certain area that'd been foot prints found, and they managed to get environmental DNA, which is DNA from water and soil, and they got a DNA that looked in between the human and the mate and it was proper DNA. But they interviewed the one of the princes of you tawn and how ever, will you allow an interview? But he was so serious and he I've set up a YETI reserve and he's seriously into it. He sent one of it. He couldn't go himself. He sent one of these representatives and they, oh yeah, it's quite seriou, which is great. I have to check that out. That's awesome. Yeah, I am going to.

38:06 So I got the list of questions here, So these are they're interesting questions. There might be some that are like, oh, that's a little departure still into kind of cryptozoology. But just we'll see. But is there anything that I should ask you that I didn't know enough to ask? Oh? Yeah, interesting, right, Oh don't I you could definitely What else do I do apart from cryptosology? That's true, Yeah, that's relevant to this program. I do paranormal investigation as well, so oh man, yeah different yeah yeah, but it's similar overlap because you're used to using night vision stuff. Yeah, so similar stuff, and it also another thing where it tests your reality really and you are you willing this to open up to stuff?

38:52 And I've had some pretty weird experiences with that as well, So it makes me a lot more receptive to big boots. I've actually had what seems to be ghosts to do things to order for me, and I've asked them to, and I thought, so, yeah, that's some weird stuff, so big, but it's not weird to be anymore really normal? Is there is there an incident in that paranormal research that made you completely change your worldview. I think the first time you get an experience, I think it really throws you. I was out. I don't know whether you've ever seen Most Haunted Ghost program with David Wells and have also done stuff caring at Keith and I just appeared on TAPS and I was I did an investigation with David and this group and it I just got some very bright light us on the camera and it just I thought, ohoh. And for six months I couldn't go.

39:52 It was my first experience. I couldn't go ghost dunting it completely freaking out. I thought, oh my goodness, they really exist. I'd had some weird stuff when I were younger with experiences, but it really threw my sense of reality for a while. And I think I showed to some people who just couldn't bear looking at it scared them. And I think that first experience, and I've had other things that are just so bizarre. Had one pub called Carrick Barton used to being part of the bits of it. It was a monastery that was knocked down and then it was rebuilt a school, then public house, and it's really haunted. It's been investigated by loads of the television teams. It's loads of monk ghosts, you name, it's got it. And we have this one that you'd be there and the door handle would be a bang bank and we couraually bunk it to check it wasn't sucked air because there was another door behind it. It wasn't, And then we study in front of it and there were six of us, I think, and we weren't really thinking anything would happened. We just said, oh, we know you're there, and do you mind moving the door handle again?

41:02 And as we watched it was about four or five of us, I think a couple of them couldn't see it. They'b skewed by a bit of furniture. But you could see a white light, like a ball of white light almost looked like plasma, like almost like plankton. These programs illuminated from the back and it was slightly moving like in a meeba. It was circular, but it would change shape literally came out of the wall, went towards this door handle and then the door. We are all the voices that got really high, just go might do it again and again and then you know, at that time we said thank you very much and then the ball of light went back into the wall. Were oh my goodness, shack up. Yeah wow, what that was in England? It was in England, Yeah, Barton Pub and in Exeter and Devon and it's been it's got monk ghosts.

41:57 I will ghost and will do things to order. Yeah, she quite Yeah, she'll giggle in your ear and she'll in the kitchen, but she'll actually do stuff if you asked her to do it. It's freaky. Yeah, no thanks, you got all those. Yeah, very receptive ghosts. But that was freaky. It's like the little girl you know, and say, will you stand next to somebody? But you'll tell the ghost and not them, and then you'll see it. You can feel the call spot and it's always the person. Yeah, pranks with a ghost. I love it. What are you most excited about right now? That could could be anything?

42:37 Oh I mean I want I'm just about to live on a canal boat. Yeah. Yeah, so I've been exploring reading up about haunted waterways and there's a loads of them. The Irish navvies who built the canals loads of them died. It was really bad. There a lot of safety things and there's loads of haunted tunnel. I'm really waiting to get down there, but I really want to. I really want to get back out to America and do some big foot research various people and just want to get out of there and just get back. Yeah, but it's quite frustrating at the moment. But I have been looking at more almasty sightings in different areas of the world where those might be any Papa ne Guinea stuff I do. I've not actually been there yet. I've gone in by Rex Yappie talk to him quite a lot and about the ropun which is the flying reptile possibly out there. Yeah, if there's going to be Allison, it'll be there. But my do areas of Siberia just go on forever. I've flown over Siberia and it just goes on for hours. So see that Canada as well, isn't It's amazing there are the possibility of undiscovered creatures, and I think New Guinea as well.

43:53 There's so much that's been explored there, Rex say crypt as well just over there. Yeah, he's I think he's the main one, if not the only book. He's the dude for p Yeah, track that down, that would be cool. What are the top books someone getting in the Bigfoot should have on their bookshelves? What do you recommend? Although he is my very close friend, I wouldn't just say this just because he's my friend. But Richard Freeman's Adventures and cryptos of Ology, he's already got what volume one, Volume two I think is coming out about Ober. They are really well written, really good covers. Dragons at very is very good researcher. He's like an encyclopedia, Richard. You just ask him something, I'll tell you the day and who did it? And yeah, got amazing memory. I like Tom Pal's book The Locals. That's very good. And the pictures on the front are very authentic looking. Okay, so hold on, that's interesting, so very authentic, Like that matches up with what you saw? Very similar, really very similar. Yeah, the face amazing, that's right. Yeah.

45:04 Now book the Autumn Williams did? Was it called the one? Oh? It's got religious? What the one? That autumn Williams did about the bloke who reckoned he spent time with the big Foot. I'm just trying to think that's it. Oh remember the name of it now, but that the one, Yeah, that's amazingly closed as well. Yeah, and also there's that other one the radio show guy who saw one who got the face reconstructed. That was a bit similar. It was a bit more ape like. But yeah, I've seen some and it's made me go cold because they look so similar. And I've got a bit shaky. Yeah, okay, some things have sent me a bit shaky again. I'm almost reliving it because my sign was I almost recall it like a road accident because your brain you're in shop And yeah, that is cool, not that you have to relive that, but just the fact that some book covers we'll just be like bam, put you right back into that. It sends you almost like you've got a car. It is the same feeling shaky, And I mean it's oh, the lady who had the I've got a name memory block tonight, and is it the lady got chased by the big Foot to a car. She I interviewed just coffee with her at the Sascot Summit and I saw it was always had she really or is it? And I started chatting with her, and the legs and the chin started shaking, and I said, you've got really

46:34 traumatized by that, and she said, yeah, I got really traumatized by it. And you could tell she was recomed in a real event because she was like re living the norma and she was shaking, and oh yeah. I think there's a good lesson there that when we're interviewing witnesses we have to be very empathetic to what they've gone through and oh yeah, connect with them and people with if needed. Yeah, with the rock phone, people said why don't you stay there and get a shot, And I was like, I could have been killed of that one rocket hit as it would have snapped your leg, hit your head, you would have had your cult school practice, and you were so close to it, and we realized this thing was probably four or five feet away. It would have just ripped you apart to come out. And I think people say, you know, bigfoots are potentially friendly, but they're also potentially if it's an eight gorillas, you have to really watch yourself. And they're in a mountain gorilla can arm off just like that, what can a big foot? Because you have to be really careful with things. It's it could be partly man, but it's also wild animal.

47:45 And I think I think the habituation stuff's quite good because it's got a choice. Then it can come up to you, and I think that's a lot safer. But I think going into the territory, especially if you've got young attack, so you've got to be careful. And humans will attack if they're younger threatens. So I think we all, yeah, when when that's involved? What what in your opinion is bigfoot? I think it looked very similar. It's probably in a bowld tominid. It looked very similar to Homo habilist. To me, it wasn't anywhere near near in the AD at all. It wasn't as primitive. I wouldn't have thought it was after the but it was like somewhere in between. I would say, I wouldn't the pictures reconstructions. It's quite ap like. It wasn't as ape like. It was a lot more. It was a bit like a cross been a human and ape. You could sit characteristics of an ape. You could also see early man characteristics sure, and I think that there are sounds. I know people who've heard those. Yeah, John Hammer, I know from the Erfurrow friend of mine. He was out camping and he actually had something whacked aside of his truck really high, and then he heard them and dog was terrified.

49:05 What was that again? John Hammer? Okay, because I've heard a similar story from a gentleman Alabama. That's how that happened too. He didn't believe it, but till he heard them and they said exactly the description and what we're here on the tapes. Wow. Yeah, that would freak me out. Yeah, yeah, I've heard the well heard. Yeah, able to record? Did you ever get anything any sounds on tape? Or is a thing where it just happened? And usually there's nothing happened. I tried to record, I think when I was a Tom Cantrell's, but they were just too too far away. Really gotcha? Ye, you could hear them, but the sound recorded picking them up possibly got It's a lot of it's finding.

49:54 I do I want somebody who just loves going through data willing to say it there. I occasionally managed to get stuff out, but it's having the time, isn't it I've done it with ghost stuff, but it's not a lot of these things. You've got to sit there for hours and hours and you have got people in the CF said who loved doing that. We sometimes hand them stuff, but it's having that patient the time if you're working as well. I have got to really get on a get created a website really and put this stuff up. I think it sounds like almost a thing like David Ellis from the Olympic Project in the Pacific Northwest. Yeah, he's the sound guy. Was like, he's just pouring through everything looking after them. Yeah, stuff with me. Yeah, yeah, it's really good. It's really good analysis and yeaheah. He's probably the type guy I would say, is Mathman good or something else? Do you have any thoughts on marth Man.

50:47 I'm not too sure about moth Man. I would say we've got the Jersey Devil. I think that was probably a crane, quite frank. But it was also a political dig, wasn't it. Somebody a lot of it. But I think the moth Man, I don't know, really, it's bizarre. I think the brain can create some amazing stuff. It can, really, and I think the CF said John Downs and Richard Freeman, I did that there's a global monster template. They've looked into the idea that we've got these genetic memories. There were things in the mass that used to attack us, and that because they were big cats. We do get. It's another thing. I've been into big cats as well in England looking for them.

51:30 But they also showed the researcher showed a bleating black shape to kids in Berlin they would very unlikely to see a wild black cat and kids in the Amazon basin where they could see jaguars, whatever, and they were equally likely to interpret this shape as a big black cat. Is it genetic memory? We can recognize spiders, we can recognize snakes, and there's everything genetic memory. But is their genetic memory other things that were perhaps other large apes that preyed on us or flying animals. That's been brought up in an interview just the other day. Actually that same exact notion. Yeah, and I'm sure Richard, I'll expand on that with you. But sometimes these misinterpretations, I think, I think it's a shame in the big foot field, people jump to conclusions. They see a shape and it's a big butt and it doesn't do. It's better to just hold back unless you've got something really good, because it's given the field of bad reputation. I don't think scientists take it seriously because of that. I think it's great to offer stuff and to get it debunked, but I think people need to get something really good before they show it. I think it's a difficult one, isn't it one. The other day, me and a couple of people on the site quickly do banks porcupine a a tree? Now I'm not even American, and I could tell it was a pup a tree. I'm not used to seeing fortifying up trees, but it could figure it out. Yeah. I think people just need to they get excited. I think that's the thing they get. I think something they get extremely excited and you're not thinking logically, And yeah, I

53:04 agree, Yeah, great, enthusiasm is great, but you need to be hold back a bit. Yeah. Are we and I don't know if this is just the US thing, so we'll see if it lands or not. Are we concerned enough about dog man or do you have any thoughts about that? I did give a talk a while back on dog Man Association for studying almost phenomena, which is like a scientific group, and I did get I'm pretty sure I didn't realize Pat Spain had come up with this theory that it was actually a bear with mane, and I independently came up with it as well, and that even because the zoologists biologists, he'd actually realized as well that it was seeing eating something like that, and of course bears do that, not anything wolf like, so that was even more God Yeah, that I think a lot of the time, and they look bizarre. They look they've lost their fat because a lot of a bear is back when they lose that fat, and they're really scrawny with mange that you suddenly a lot of them's fur as well. You've got this real dog like and they are dogs and bears come from the same evolutionary line, you can understand. But you see them, they really look like a werewolf and they look really unusual.

54:20 He said. The gentleman's name is Pat Spain is Yeah, he's the guy who did the Is It beast Man series? Cryptozoology is Charles Fort's great nephew. Oh, that's cool. I had a chat with him on the internet. It was great about said for tem zoology and Richard Freeman's one of the guide Sahara. He sadly died and I can't randomly contacted Pat because Pat had used this guide not expecting a response and got a really long email back saying, oh you're from the Centenology, cool and telling me all about is that he was Charles Sport's great nephew and how they've got some of child falls stuff at home and yeah they're really good. Sort of chat with him on the internet and yeah they're sweet. Yeah, I emails talking about it. Yeah, that's cool. What do you think the possibility of living dinosaurs are I think the mccallimber Bembe and the other ones in Africa. I think a lot of the time they're mistaken elephants because certain certain tribes wouldn't be used to they don't particularly go to certain areas, and I think they're often elephants swimming because you've got the head coming up. I think Pat Spain as well thought that one, and I think that's a highly likely theory. But again, I've been to the Sensi. It's now the Congo, the massive area loads of it. You kind of get through very thick forest and there's a possibility.

55:52 Yeah, I think there's definitely a possibility. And there's the one paying the tribe etty and then they all die, almost all die. A lot of reptile flesh is quite toxic. That would be consistent with that. You get really bad salmonella off it, So there's a little bit of evidence there, But I don't know. I think as well, some of these areas they're very poor, and if you get somebody coming in saying can you show us this, that they there's also a cultural thing in Africa, so they want to please. They'll say yes to please you because they don't want you to have a bad time. I had one point when I said to a guide, is that snake not poisonous? She said, oh yes, and then I have a massively poisonous snake crawl across my shoe and ooh ros this this black snake and I found it afterwards. It was like a really poisonous one.

56:45 They just you just have to ask a cultural thing. It's trying to please, but you can't ask no questions ever. Yeah, that's its cultural They're trying to make sure you help good time. So I say, yeah, fine, but poisonous thing that you have to watch for. Yeah, how poisonous is a snake? Zero percent? Great, let's go. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. I think with anything you have to get to know the culture really and and understand the cultural nuances as well when you go out anywhere to check why you might say something they're just trying to please you, and that that that does happen in a few areas of the world as well. Yeah. Wow. Lastly, what do you consider the top evidence for Bigfoot? Obviously I know exists because I've seen it myself. There you go. I think the footprints are very good evidence. The fact they've got dermal ridges. I don't think because I knew professor Bryan Sykes, who has sadly passed away. Yeah, exactly, and we work with him, and the CF said he very much believed there was a program actually big Foot Files, that was done with him in it, and they edited it in a way to employ he didn't believe it, and he wasn't happy about at all.

57:57 That is really does, yeah, because they edited it in a way to be played in believing it, and he really does. But he basically said, unfortunately, a lot things like Melbournetchen DNA there's a lot of evidence it was corrupted by human DNA. It's actually very difficult. Brian's done some very good techniques with other people for removing the corruptive stuff from washing it as it were, to try to remove the corruptive but it's so easy to contaminate it with human DNA. And I think this is likely what a lot of people are seeing. He writes about this, and I think it's called the Last Neanderthal. In the u US, it was called the book was called The Nature of the Beast in the UK his book connotations. They changed the name in America. Yeah, but it talks about it there. But I think it's very easy to get it corrupted, and you've got to know what you're doing when you collect it. Jackie, this has been super, super fascinating. But this has been amazing. Thank you so much for chatting.

58:59 Yeah, thank you the names tonight. Hey, it's enough for me to look up stuff, so that's fine with me. Yeah, this is cool. If it sounds there's definitely maybe some maybe future things coming. Are you putting out things currently to do with cryptozoology. It sounds like you've you have in the past, at least in Richard Freeman's book. You can read stuff anything else that people can keep up to date with what you're doing. I always ask that I am. I'm going to have probably a bit more time soon. I probably will do a website really, so I'm hoping to do that and I'll let you know. Yeah. Really, And as I said, I keep getting nagged to do this book, so might have a bit more time. Yeah, totally, that's cool. Definitely, Jackie, thanks so much for hanging out. Any last words or if not, I think we're good to go. Yeah. I think we ideally need to get evidence.

59:55 Well, bigfoot, and I think I don't think it's that with the forest it's in, and I don't think it's that much in danger. It's not like an owl with a nest that gets knocked down. I think the forestry protects it, to be quite frank, I think though I don't I'm definitely not an advocate for shooting it. I think you can get other evidence. I think it's any animal. I think I don't agree with shooting to get specimens to prove the science. I think there's other ways you can do it. And I think, well, i've cameramen, they're probably the best people. I spoke to some Top twelve cameramen. They were quite interested in it, and I think that's the answer, isn't it. It's get don't use auto focused cameras. They can't cope in the woods. Try to get many of the focus cameras and try to the habituation seems to be the answer.

1:00:44 I think people are starting to get quite good results of habituating, which is what they did with the mountain gorillas. Wow, that's very interesting. Oh man, there's a lot to unpack from this episode. Thank you. This has been a pleasure. Let me know if I can help in any way in the future with future public ations or anything. But thank you so much for coming on Jackie. Yeah great, Thanks very much. Just wanted to take a few minutes to say thank you to you all my listeners for listening to the podcast. Please take a minute to help out the show by subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so you don't miss any notifications, and share the episode on YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us on a podcast, thank you so much, make sure that you're subscribed, share the show with a friend. Really, it's all about sharing the show wherever you can something I would love to hear And I've never asked for this before, but if you've ever randomly met another person and you found out that you both listened to the Big Fort Society, I would love to hear about that. It just sounds like a really funny scenario.

1:01:53 I have heard of that happening a few times, but I would love to hear your story as well, so you can email tell me Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. A special thank you to all the Bigfoot Society Patreon and YouTube channel members. It's your support that helps keep the show going and I extremely appreciate it. I'll see you back next time. Listeners, new shows on Mondays and Fridays. Let's see you then,