Bigfoot Encounters of Salt Fork State Park with John Hickenbottom

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Uh. This particular story involves two
people who were in a car um a

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man and a woman in a car
parked on what back then was just a

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picnic area. In the middle of
the night, something large Harry and two

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leg it picked up the rear end
of their car and held it, you

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know, they were they were gunning
the gas and couldn't go anywhere, and

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finally it dropped it and they took
off, and they they told they allegedly

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had told a park ranger about it. There's this whole other portion that's kind

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of this conspiratorial cover up that also
probably never happened. I've been told by

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so many people that, oh yeah, after that happened, we tried to

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go out there to see, you
know, where it happened at, and

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there were two armed rangers, you
know, blocking off the road and telling

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turning people away. This episode of
Big for Society contains a chat with John

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Hickinbottom, naturalist from Salt Fork State
Park in Ohio. John is a known

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and vetted individual within a big foot
community is very respected within the Ohio DNR.

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Enjoy this conversation. All right,
Big Society, thanks for coming back

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to another episode. We have the
privilege of talking again to an old friend,

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mister John Hickinbottom. How's it going, John? Good? How about

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yourself? Oh? I'm doing great. It feels like I just got to

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see out in Ohio actually at monster
Fest. That was That was a fun

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time. We got a kind of
a long chat there for a while.

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That was Yeah. That was a
good event too. That was a nice

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event. Oh, it was yeah. And just a little plug for small

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town monsters. They just announced that
the second one will be happening end of

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June of next year. So if
you didn't get to go to the first

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monster Fest, you really don't want
to miss out on the second one because

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it's going to be even more wild. So that's my plug for them.

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M John. Let's let's talk a
little bit about who you are. Just

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so listeners that haven't gotten to listen
to the first John episode, which I

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recommend you do, but they want
to know that you are the head naturalists

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at Salt Fork State Park in Ohio. Correct. Yeah, yeah, So

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it's the it's the largest state park
and Ohio and it has the distinction of

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being Ohio's um Ohio's capital of you
know, the Bigfoot capital of the Buckeye

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State. Um, it's kind of
where a lot of historically, it's sort

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of where a lot of the the
states, UM, earlier big foot sidings

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and big Foot reports kind of came
from the Salt Fork area. UM,

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so it's uh, it's got that
distinction. And I grew up around there,

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so I kind of grew up around
all of the all of that folklore

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and and everything. So it's uh, yeah, it's a pretty cool place.

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I think it's the largest big foot
conference east of the Mississippi is posted

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it Salt Fork. Yeah, and
it's a it's a good time too.

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UM if you've ever if you've never
had the opportunity, it's a pretty cool,

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pretty cool event. Also it's on
my my I guess you could say

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big Foot buckle list. Oh were
you not there this year? That was

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kind of a blur for me.
Um this year. We because I have

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a table there every year, UM, and that that event this year was

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a bit of a blur. UM. Everything was we were we were positioned

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in a good spot. Our table
was right in front of the right in

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front of the entrance to the conference
room where all the speakers were. So

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it was non it was non stop
all day talking to people, and uh,

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it was it was kind of a
blur. I thought you were I

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guess Cryptogon would have been the would
have been the last one that we got

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to chat at them. If you
weren't at the big Foot Conference this year,

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it would have been different. Thing
about these conferences. Yeah, if

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yeah, if listeners don't if they
don't know these these conferences go really quick

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and if you see someone, you've
got to talk to them right then because

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you probably won't see them again right
on the day. Yeah, and that's

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and and it's hard for me to
keep track. Like generally, uh,

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a lot of times I'm not like
part of the conference. I just go

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there to chat with people, um
and things and you know, meet up

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with people like you, uh,
you know, folks that I've gotten to

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know in this community. Um.
But I mean a lot of times I'll

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go with my family, Like I'll
drive my family comes along these are we

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sort of do these big Foot Conference
trips now. Uh, it's a whole

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thing. So a lot of times
my wife and my wife and kids will

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go, um, you know,
go get crypted stuff from all the artists

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and vendors there, and then I
go, like talk to folks like you

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you know what I mean for the
whole day. Um, and my wife,

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my wife is kind of my uh, she's kind of like my hype

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man. She's the uh she she
will go chat with show, chat with

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a podcaster at a table somewhere and
then say, oh, you should talk

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to my husband. He's uh,
he's the naturalist salt work. So she's

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gotten me so many like I've gotten
so many interviews just because just because my

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my wife will go, you know, chat with people and then say,

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oh, yeah, you'd you'd like
to talk to my husband. So that's

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kind of you know, it's kind
of cool. She's the uh, she's

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the paul bearer to my undertaker.
You know. Um a good a good

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yeah, yeah, you know,
it's my hype man. It was really

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nice to meet your your family as
well. Yeah yeah, yeah, well,

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I mean the kids and the good
kids all I'll go to it.

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So it's you know, it's kind
of one of our family things now as

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going to these conferences. So yeah, we are going to do that for

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the first time next year. Um. And it's still in the works,

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but it looks like, uh,
well we'll be trying to swing down to

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Tennessee for the Smoky Mountain big And
that's another that's another great event. That's

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another good one. Yeah. Um, it's basic too. Yeah, yeah,

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it's very nice. That's uh.
I think we're going to the first

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one. Um, we haven't gone
for a couple of years. It was

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it was that summer where things started
to get normal again after COVID, before

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it all tanked one, you know
what I mean. It was like summer

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twenty twenty one. We all went
and then uh, everything kind of got

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weird again. Um, but yeah, it was. It's a really good

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Yeah, it's a really good event. That's a that's a nice event.

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Um. A lot of good a
lot of good speakers at that one.

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It's a great venue too. I
mean Gatlinburg's great. You know, it's

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the Vegas of the Smokies. It's
awesome. You know. Oh I am

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looking so forward to Yeah, you
have no idea. I love that.

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That's awesome. I mean it makes
sense, right but right, So,

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John, we I asked you to
come back on because I was really curious.

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I wanted to talk to you specifically
about there's got to be some great

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Bigfoot stories or encounters that you've heard
over the years to do with Salt Fork.

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Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I usually get somebody will tell me

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some story. Now some of them, it's it's incredibly difficult to vet all

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of these, you know what I
mean, because some of them are extremely

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like a friend of a friend,
some of them are you know. Well,

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Actually, one that I'd like to
tell you about today happened in like

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nineteen eighty one, so the park
was still relatively young. I mean,

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the park had only opened in seventy
two, officially opened in seventy two,

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seventy. Between seventy and seventy two, the park had kind of in phases,

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so the park was still relatively young
when this particular one happened. But

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you know it was so it's that
long ago, like nineteen eighty one,

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nineteen eighty two when I had heard
about this. And actually the gentleman that

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this happened to had written in to
another show, another podcast, and they

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were doing like a listener email day, and when I heard him tell a

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story about Salt Pork, I was
like, So I contacted them and I

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said, is there any way I
explained who I was, and I said,

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is there any way that I can
get this guy's contact, like this

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guy's email, so I can maybe
talk to him and get a location,

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you know what I mean, where
his signing happened. So I got his

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email and eventually connected with him and
got to talk and kind of narrowed down

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the loca, I mean, the
part of the parks twenty thousand acres.

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So narrowing sometimes narrowing down our location
in the woods is a little little tricky,

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but I kind of narrowed it down
because of a couple of key things

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which kind of play into the big
foot sighting to begin with. Um,

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but I can just do you mind
if I just tell you that particular encounter,

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if we get if we get into
yeah, go right ahead. So

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this gentleman, we have it.
The whole park is, uh, like

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I said, it's twenty thousand acres, and we have, um, a

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few thousand acres of public hunting land
that you're allowed to hunt fish trap on,

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you know, it's it's public hunting
land. And then of course there's

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there's park land where hunting is prohibited
because of you know, traffic, visitor

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traffic and things like that. You're
obviously not allowed to hunt off of hiking

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trails, things like that. So
there are parts of the park that are

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really rugged that people just don't go, you know, not for any reason

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other than it's very difficult to get
there. Um. So this gentleman was

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hunting in the nineteen eighties, in
the early nineteen eighties, nineteen eighty one,

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eighty two with his dad. In
the story that he told was it

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was very cold, nice snow on
the ground. So he's deer hunting,

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and they had shot a dough and
the dough ran off and they were tracking

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it and they got within about one
hundred yards of it. They found that

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they located the dough, you know, followed the blood trail, located the

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dough, and standing over top of
the dough was about an eight foot bipedal,

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hair covered animal that proceeded to scoop
up their deer, throw it over

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their shoulder and walk off, kind
of looked at them for a second,

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turned around and walked off, and
they were just frozen. So obviously when

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I heard that story, I'm like, man, that is a great you

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know, that is a great encounter, you know. And I mean on

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the other side of that, like
what a great hunting story to begin with,

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you know what I mean? Like
oh, no, like, and

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that's what makes me kind of I
think that this was maybe there's I don't

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think that he's lyne to me,
you know, because I mean, if

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you were in a line, why
not shoot a buck that's this big and

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the you know, a big foot
takes it and carries it off, you

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know what I mean? He said
he shot a dough, so he wasn't

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he wasn't stretching the truth as far
as like, oh, you know,

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I shot a ten point buck.
It was you know, it was a

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dough that he shot. But I
mean, man, what a great story.

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So he'd written into another show.
They read this story on air and

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I had to contact him. So
when I talked to him, he explained

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the whole thing, told me the
story, he said, you know,

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and very few frills. That's another
thing that didn't really turn my you know,

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didn't really like uh trigger my like
bs radar was that, you know

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that there were very few frills.
It was basically straightforward. He said,

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No, you know, I shot
this deer. We tracked it and there

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was this thing standing over it.
It scooped it up, through it over

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its shoulder and walked off. And
the I really wanted to know a location

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because it's a huge park. So
I really and he told me he could.

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He remembered walking up a horse trail
and there that they were hunting out

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of an old apple orchard. Now, the park is made up of two

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hundred plus old farms that used to
be functioning up until the fifties when the

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states started buying land. So some
of them were very small, you know,

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twenty acre farms. Some of them
were over two hundred acres. And

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when he said there was an apple
orchard, I knew pretty much. He

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told me where at approximately in the
park he was, and when he said

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there was an old apple orchard,
I was able to like figure out because

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I knew I knew where an old
apple orchard was in that area. So

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and it's a very rugged place.
But here's here's my thinking too, Like

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an old apple orchards still got you
know, it's a great place to deer

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hunt because those old apple trees still
produce apples. Now they're going to be

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like tiny and bitter and you know, hard apples. But it's a great

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place to deer hunt because the deer
don't care in the middle of winter calories

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or calories you know, what I
mean. So if they're old, dried

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out apples still hanging out on the
trees, those are still calories. And

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it would stand to reason that something
you know, that had that needs the

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chloric intake of like a four or
five hundred pound bipedal, you know,

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animal like a big foot, would
also not pass up those calories, regardless

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of they're you know, little bitter
apples or not. So, so that

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location, you know, I'm like, man, that is ideal because it's

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off of any there's no trails,
it's it's out of the it's out of

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the way. The closest thing is
a bridle trail, a horse trail that

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kind of cuts up through there,
and interesting, like interesting in its own

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It's one of the locations, like
near the nearest road there is one of

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those spots that we people claim to
see black bears quite a bit. But

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this is in the nineteen eighties when
black bears in Ohio would have been like

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really scarce. They've only just in
the last like twenty years started to come

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back into the eastern part of the
state. Um So talking to you know,

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looking at the nineteen in nineteen eighty
one or nineteen eighty two, there

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weren't a you know, there wasn't
an abundance of black bears coming across over

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from West Virginia and Pennsylvania at the
time. Now now it's less. It's

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uh, it's not uncommon to have
a black bear. I mean, we're

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nowhere near like Tennessee where we need
bearproof dumpsters at least like not yet.

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But um, you know, they're
they're around. I've had one on my

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property um here and I live about
nine miles from the park, ten miles

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from the park, So uh,
they're around, you know. But um,

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I'm kind of I don't think that
it would have been a black bear

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um in that case, just because
the time period that in the nineteen eighties.

206
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But now, um, now this
is kind of one of the locations

207
00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:58.399
that people occasionally see black bears.
Um. And my thinking is, you

208
00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:03.240
know, well, there's probably a
significant overlap between a large two two large

209
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omnivores, you know what I mean
as far as sharing habitat, Like you've

210
00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:11.799
got two two large omnivores, they
probably share very very similar habitats, you

211
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know, um, and this would
be a good spot for either of them.

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00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.879
So that's that's a kind of an
old you know, kind of an

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old story again nineteen eighties. Um. And then like I said, I'm

214
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:28.039
telling I'm retelling it because the gentleman
um gave me permission to kind of retell

215
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:33.639
that story. Um. But absolutely
it's always important to get permission, right

216
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:45.360
yeah. Um. So then I
have one memorable story. It happened in

217
00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.039
the early early two thousands. Um. Two fishermen were night fishing there for

218
00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:54.039
catfish. We've got these We've got
these kind of big mutant flathead catfish like

219
00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:56.320
these, you know, these kind
of river monster catfish that live in the

220
00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:02.759
lake, you know, so style
stuff. Yeah. Yeah, So night

221
00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:06.679
fishing is a kind of a big
past time in the park because because these

222
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:08.679
big, these big flathead catfish,
you know, they can get up like

223
00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:12.559
sixty pounds that sort of thing.
Big, that's a big fish. Um.

224
00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:18.639
So we uh, there were two
night fishermen, um, kind of

225
00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:22.240
on the north end of the park, near an area known as host X

226
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Cave, which actually has its own
encounter and has like which I'll kind of

227
00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:34.919
get to the closest thing that I
have ever personally seen firsthand that could resemble

228
00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.960
a footprint, you know what I
mean. That someone didn't say hey,

229
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:42.000
we found a footprint. When I
come check it out, Yeah, me

230
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:47.519
and actually me and two of the
guys from Sasquatch Tracks were out hiking at

231
00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:52.159
host X Cave and found, you
know, found something that looked suspiciously like

232
00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:56.679
a big footprint. It wasn't great, you know what I mean. But

233
00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:02.480
this isn't the same area. But
those gentlemen were night fishing in that area

234
00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:07.599
and started having They described between softball
and bowling ball sized rocks getting and they

235
00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:11.119
said they weren't getting rolled down the
hill or chucked straight at them, they

236
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.799
were getting like catapulted. They said. They looked when we finally started because

237
00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:18.839
we kept hearing these big splashes.
And he said, when we when we

238
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.640
looked up, we could see them
like arc out of the woods, out

239
00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:25.759
of the trees. They actually would
arc out of the trees and then end

240
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:29.640
of the lake, you know,
um at them. And they said,

241
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:34.079
uh, you know they were they
were. It would be really hard in

242
00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:41.160
my opinion, for a you know, person to you know hulk um softball

243
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.359
size you know, hunk a black
hat and sandstone up out of the trees,

244
00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.160
clear over the tree line, you
know, and into the water from

245
00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:53.519
the hillside so they were intense.
Yeah, yeah, so they and they

246
00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:59.160
witnessed this for for a while.
And the thing was that the rocks kept

247
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:00.839
getting close, like kept getting you
know, they kept getting launched from a

248
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.720
closer and closer location. So they
kind of skidaddled out of there, you

249
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:08.839
know. They they got out of
there, but immediately told people like that.

250
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.799
I believe they might have even done
a b BFRO or report on it.

251
00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:15.799
I think it might be. I
think it might be on the BFRO

252
00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:22.680
database for Ohio. UM. But
it was you know that, that's an

253
00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:27.559
interesting story there. I have not
gotten the chance to speak to those two

254
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:33.240
individuals. Um. This is one
of those stories that is like one of

255
00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:37.000
salt pork stories, you know that's
it's kind of the park story, now

256
00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:41.519
you know what I mean that.
And then there's one in the campfire story

257
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.839
either this is one of the Yeah, and there's also there's also one that

258
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.400
I have no I have got no. UM. I'll tell this because it's

259
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.640
it's important in this in this UH
community, in this this subject, it's

260
00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:57.640
important to keep some uh, keep
some skepticism, like you should be you

261
00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:03.279
should be open minded, um.
But as a good scientist, you need

262
00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.279
to you need to have some skep
skepticism, you know. And uh,

263
00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:12.440
I do have one story that uh
I've got no evidence that it actually happened,

264
00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:18.160
but it gets retold and retold and
retold, and and I can't I

265
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:22.680
can't find a single I can't find
a single speck of evidence that it actually

266
00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:27.000
actually happened, you know. Um, But there's the story. Our primitive

267
00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:30.079
camp is in an area called big
Foot Ridge. Now it's called that,

268
00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:36.000
um because of the Bigfoot activity that
had happened there in the past. And

269
00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:37.680
also kind of a marketing thing.
You know. Everybody knows that we like

270
00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.400
we do kind of marketing, you
know what I mean, Uh, salt

271
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:44.880
bigfoot salt work, spread and butter, So we do we do use it,

272
00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:48.359
you know, like you whenever I
get accused of like oh you're you

273
00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:55.119
know, you're um, people will
often say something like, well, have

274
00:19:55.240 --> 00:20:00.599
you evercotany Like have you evercotany you
know gruff from like talking about big Foot,

275
00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:02.960
And I'm like, well, it'd
be different if you couldn't go to

276
00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:06.400
the gift store and get a big
Foot plushy, you know what I mean,

277
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:08.640
Like it's kind of it's kind of
you know what I mean, like,

278
00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:11.200
it would be different if I were
just some if I were just like,

279
00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.440
hey, you know, no one's
talking about this, but these things

280
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:17.599
are happening, that'd be totally different
than I'd be like, but you know,

281
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.559
you can go to the gift shop
and buy a big Foot coffee mug.

282
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:25.440
So talking about it's not such a
big not not quite the big deal

283
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:30.440
that sometimes it gets made out to
be. Um. But this particular story

284
00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:37.000
involves two people who were in a
car, a man and a woman in

285
00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:41.480
a car parked on what back then
was just a picnic area in the middle

286
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:48.079
of the night, and something large, hairy and two legg had picked up

287
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:52.720
the rear end of their car and
held it, you know. They were

288
00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:56.200
they were gunning, gunning the gas
and couldn't go anywhere, and finally it

289
00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:00.759
dropped it and they took off,
and they they told they allegedly had told

290
00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:07.839
a park ranger about it. And
that's kind of where that the Bigfoot portion

291
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:12.559
of the story ends. Um.
But then there's this whole other portion that's

292
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:22.079
kind of this conspiratorial cover up that
also probably never happened that I've been told

293
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:26.319
by so many people that oh yeah, after that happened. We tried to

294
00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.680
go out there to see you know
where it happened at, and there were

295
00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:33.200
two armed rangers just you know,
blocking off the road and telling turning people

296
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.839
away. So here's the thing.
The number of people that have told me

297
00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:44.920
that they went there and two rangers
said there's a there's an unknown animal and

298
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.200
turn them away, like there would
have been a line of cars clear out

299
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:52.039
of the park because of the number
of people that said I was there that

300
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.200
night I went and two rangers turned
me away, you know what I mean.

301
00:21:55.519 --> 00:22:00.720
Also, I've spoke to a I
had spoke to a tired ranger back

302
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:06.400
when they called them rangers still,
who who was not afraid to like talk

303
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:11.079
about Bigfoot. He actually had one
of his He was on he was on

304
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:15.319
Monster Quest, the Salt Pork episode
of Monster Quest of telling a story about

305
00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:22.359
an animal looking in the window at
the old ranger station at one point.

306
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:27.200
Um, so not afraid to talk
about it. He has no recollection of

307
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.200
this, and he had been he
would have been there. He was like

308
00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.880
one of the first officers that got
hired at Salt Pork, so he would

309
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.119
have been there, you know what
I mean. So I have no evidence

310
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:40.759
that when we talk about campfire stories, that one comes up over and over,

311
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:42.720
so it has to it's got to
have a nugget of truth somewhere,

312
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.519
Like someone had to be freaked out
while they were in the in their car

313
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:49.119
with their girlfriend. Something happened,
you know what I mean. But it

314
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.240
has grown into this like, oh, yeah, I was there that night.

315
00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.839
There were there were rangers, you
know, turning turning people away because

316
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:57.960
of something was going on, you
know what I mean. Like I had

317
00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:02.079
n aunt and uncle to tell about
tell me about that same story, and

318
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:03.759
I'm like, I've got no there's
no evidence that this happened, you know,

319
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.279
but there's got to be a nugget
of truth. And in that area,

320
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:15.200
people have there have been some really
compelling like audio recordings that I've heard

321
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:21.079
that people have collected. I know, I know one researcher. Yeah,

322
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:23.400
so I know one researcher that would
make it a habit of just carrying around

323
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:26.279
like the little digital you know,
tape recorders you can get it like the

324
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:32.160
college bookstore, you know, and
he would just turn them on and put

325
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.720
them like in the crotch of a
tree as he's walking, you know what

326
00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:36.960
I mean. And then kind of
collect them on his way back, just

327
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:41.119
to see if they picked up anything. So not the most not the most

328
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.559
technologically advanced thing, but you know, it's something, and it's not a

329
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:48.799
terrible idea. I mean, I'm
sure you can pick up all kinds of

330
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:56.039
stuff. And he has actually recorded
some really interesting things. One recording that

331
00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:00.640
was really fascinating to me and fascinating
to him, like he was fastinated about

332
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:03.920
it because he remembers when he recorded
it. You can hear you can hear

333
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.240
him like turn in on the recorder
and put it in the tree, and

334
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:11.200
then you hear him walk off with
his two feet you know what I mean.

335
00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:14.480
Um, you can hear him walk
off, and each each recorder that

336
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:18.200
he had had this same recording,
you know, kind of the shuffling around.

337
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:22.920
You can hear him position and then
him walking off clearly bipedal, you

338
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:27.839
know, and just a just ten
fifteen seconds after he walks off, something

339
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:33.640
very heavy and bipedal walks right by, you know, and you can hear

340
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.319
this crunch crunch, crunch, crunch, and it fades off. And every

341
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:41.039
single recorder picked this up after he
you know, ten fifteen seconds after he

342
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:45.920
had placed the recorder so so it
was like something was just tracking him just

343
00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.799
far enough, you know what I
mean. Um So, that that,

344
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:56.039
to me is kind of an interesting, um interesting story. But that a

345
00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:00.279
whole area, that Bigfoot Ridge area, it's called that partially because you know,

346
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:03.720
it's kind of a campy thing,
but also because it historically had some

347
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.839
sightings. I mean, there's the
story about the two people in the car,

348
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.319
but there's also when it was still
a picnic area, there's also a

349
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.559
story about a family picnic and seeing
two of them just kind of come out

350
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.480
of the woods and nonchalantly walk back
into the woods, you know, walk

351
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:22.440
through. Yeah, and they witnessed
it. They sort of all, you

352
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:27.039
know, stopped eating their potato salad
and watched and froze, you know,

353
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:33.680
and then then you know, and
had to find somebody to tell about it.

354
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:38.160
Um So, that whole area has
its own its own sort of legends

355
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.839
and stuff, and it is pretty
remote. Um I actually I'm pretty familiar

356
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:47.599
with that area because I've done a
lot of hikes back there and stuff.

357
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:51.079
So and it's it's pretty remote and
pretty rugged. I usually will take people

358
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:55.119
if I've got to say, like
a reporter that wants to wants to really

359
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:56.759
go out and like, I'm not
going to take them on a really heavily

360
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.200
traffic trail, so I'll usually take
them out out there just to kind of

361
00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.119
get them out in the woods.
And it feels, you know what I

362
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:07.720
mean, it feels more remote than
say one of our pretty common trails.

363
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.799
Um So, you know, it's
a that's a that's an interesting area.

364
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.880
Uh so here here most recently,
this is kind of an interesting story.

365
00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:22.359
And and you know, when you're
involved in this community, you get all

366
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:27.079
kinds of you get all all all
manner of stories, you know. Um,

367
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:32.039
And sometimes it's really hard to vate. And like I've noticed a lot

368
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:34.559
of times people just need someone to
listen to them, you know what I

369
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:38.759
mean, and go wow, interesting, you know, that's fascinating. Um,

370
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:42.839
they don't they don't even need necessarily
need somebody to analyze. This is

371
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:45.400
one thing that I kind of go
back and forth with some of my research

372
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.440
friends, like some of the some
of the people that are hardcore you know,

373
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:56.000
bigfoot researchers, rather than like what
I primarily do is education, um

374
00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:00.799
So rather than doing you know,
a lot of heavy I do. I

375
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.640
do a fair amount of research,
but I always say, I spend more

376
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.799
time out looking for snakes and salamanders
and stuff than I do bigfoot, you

377
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:11.559
know, m Because I think it's
important if you're if you're in this,

378
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:15.559
if you're studying this, you shouldn't
just be studying. You should be you

379
00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:17.960
should be kind of taking it all
in, you know, you should take

380
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.839
it like a naturalist's approach to it. You know, you should be trying

381
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:25.759
to take it all in. So
I try to do as much research as

382
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:27.039
I can, but I'm always,
you know, kind of more interested in

383
00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:30.759
other stuff. I get to I
get distracted while I'm out there, you

384
00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:34.599
know what I mean, I'm out
I you know, it's it's pretty rare

385
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.240
for me to be able to go
out and like just set in the woods

386
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.759
and squatch you know. Um,
I'll usually get distracted by like, oh

387
00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.599
cool, this is cool plants here
or something, you know. Um.

388
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:49.000
But I kind of go back and
forth with a lot of the researchers at

389
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:56.279
the park where it's like sometimes sometimes
people aren't necessarily telling you story. You're

390
00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:00.759
their story for you to like analyze
it and figure out what they saw and

391
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.519
tell them, you know, what
you think about it. Sometimes they just

392
00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:10.279
need to tell their story, you
know what I mean. Sometimes they just

393
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:12.799
need to get it out there,
and you're a good outlet for that,

394
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.880
you know, because a lot of
times, a lot of times the researchers

395
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.519
will get real laser focused, you
know, and they'll be like, oh,

396
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:22.359
well, you know, I kind
of doubt that that that's what you

397
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:26.319
saw. You probably saw a black
bear because this situation or oh you know,

398
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.720
what you were seeing was actually some
sort of and you know, they

399
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:33.880
would they'll they'll kind of speculate as
to what was going on, you know,

400
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.400
why, why they saw it in
that context or something, And I'm

401
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:38.680
like, wow, sometimes people aren't
really looking for that, they're just kind

402
00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:45.160
of looking to tell your story,
and and here there's a lace for that,

403
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.000
right, but yeah, yeah,
right, there is a place to

404
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.559
like analyze stuff. But sometimes if
somebody comes up after a program and they

405
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:56.200
don't directly ask me, what do
you think of this, a lot of

406
00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:57.799
times what they get as wow,
that's fascinating. Thank you so much for

407
00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:02.880
sharing, because that's interesting because I
you know, I can't be rude to

408
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.480
people, you know, and I
also can't like I don't want to like

409
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:08.000
if they clearly saw a black bear
I don't want to say, well,

410
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:11.319
that's just silly. You clearly saw
a black but you know what I mean.

411
00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:14.960
But also, like I mean,
I've had some people who get really

412
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:21.279
into like the the sort of um
ooky, spooky paranormal bigfoot stuff, you

413
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:23.119
know, where a big foot's maybe
not a critter, it's more of a

414
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:27.559
paranormal being. And you know,
they talk about portals and things like that,

415
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.480
and a lot of times all the
best I can do is like,

416
00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:36.440
oh, you know orbs and you
know, and I will admit that there

417
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:38.720
is weird stuff that kind of goes
on once you get into this subject.

418
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:45.039
And the same same ghost for like
uophology or you know, uh, paranoor

419
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.119
any paranormal stuff. Like once you
get into the subject, you start seeing

420
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:52.839
really weird stuff, you know what
I mean, Like you start you start

421
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:57.319
experiencing like weird things, not necessarily
paranormal things. That's not what I mean,

422
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:02.759
but like I kind of opens you
up to like it kind of you

423
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:07.720
start you start like observing things that
you're like, huh, And I'm really

424
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:11.279
comfortable now saying like, yeah,
I don't know, that's really strange.

425
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:17.960
For instance, the most recent story
that I've got came at the end of

426
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:23.559
April this year. Actually vote right
before the big Foot conference end of April.

427
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:27.839
It was still kind of slow.
The campground wasn't packed, you know,

428
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:36.480
And a lady and her husband about
five in the morning, got woke

429
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:38.920
up. Their dogs started going crazy, just going nuts in their camper,

430
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:45.759
and they woken up by their camper
was actually rocking back and forth, you

431
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:49.119
know. They could feel it,
and they said it wasn't violent. They

432
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:52.720
said it was like someone was standing
on top of it and just kind of

433
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:57.759
like gently rocking it back and forth
from on top of the camper, you

434
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:00.680
know. And they said they could
they couldn't quite put their finger on it.

435
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:04.799
Why there's no wind, and they
said it was clearly like rhythmic,

436
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:11.519
you know. And they said,
finally it stopped, and they heard some

437
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.559
rustling around, and the husband went
out with the dog and looked around.

438
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:21.920
No footprints, know anything. And
she goes up to the camp store to

439
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:23.519
tell somebody about it. And she
opens up the door and all of a

440
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:27.039
sudden there's all this big foot stuff
in the camp store and she's like,

441
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:32.279
oh, his bigfoot, like a
bigfoot a thing, you know what I

442
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:34.119
mean? Here, and you know, they told her. Yeah, and

443
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:38.119
she's like, oh, man,
so last night we got woken up first

444
00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:41.079
thing that, you know, well, this morning we got woken up by

445
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.160
something on the roof of our camper, rocking the camper back and forth,

446
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:48.440
you know. And she said it
wasn't violent, but it was enough to

447
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.359
like notice it was like a noticeable
rocking back and forth. And uh,

448
00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:56.000
you know, she told me this
story and she's like I and she's like,

449
00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:59.960
we couldn't find any tracks, but
honestly, I don't We were expect

450
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:04.720
tend to go out and see like, you know, a person, you

451
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.839
know what I mean, or a
really big rock who or something a bear,

452
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:10.400
you know what I mean, something, and there's just nothing there.

453
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:15.599
And uh, you know that particular
story, I'm like, I don't know

454
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:16.799
what to make of that because it
could have been it could have been a

455
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:21.240
bear. I mean, it could
have been a bear. Probably wasn't a

456
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:23.799
person. I feel like what I
don't know. We don't have we don't

457
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:28.519
have like a ton of really like
we don't have that. We don't have

458
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:32.119
like a problem with like mentally old
people just sort of like you know,

459
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:37.720
running through the campgrounds causing you know, issues, I feel like someone else

460
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:42.279
would have noticed. Yeah, but
yeah, that was kind of an and

461
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:49.200
she was in a loop, which
it has its own like kind of history

462
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.960
of Bigfoot. Actually, one of
our really well known big foot prints came

463
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:59.519
from just down over the hill from
where her campsite was. UM. And

464
00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:02.920
it's kind it's like, I believe
this particular print is actually the original is

465
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:08.480
in Cliff's museum, like Cliff Barrickman's
museum. Um, he's got he's got

466
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:15.240
one of the originals or the original
of this footprint twelve. Yeah, so

467
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:20.720
that whole area has its own its
own history. A big Foot sighting is

468
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:25.920
a very well known sighting. Uh. Um that happened just it happened on

469
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:30.480
a trail just adjacent to a loop
in the campground. UM. A gentleman

470
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:37.119
named Walter Tippy back in twenty eleven. He was actually a vendor at the

471
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:39.880
at a. It might not have
been the big Foot conference. It might

472
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:43.599
have been like Creature Weekend or one
of the one of the little like proto

473
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:47.559
big Foot conferences that used to happen
at the lodge. UM, but he

474
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:52.279
was a vendor there and he was
he had talked to these two fishermen who

475
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:55.960
had said they'd seen something out in
the woods. So he was going to

476
00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:59.640
go meet a friend and they were
going to go investigate, you know.

477
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:05.839
And he went out and he looked
up on the hillside heading toward a loop,

478
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:07.599
and he thought it was his friend. He thought, he like,

479
00:34:07.639 --> 00:34:10.400
why is he wearing this jacket?
That's what he That was his first thought,

480
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:15.039
why is he wearing, you know, a raincoat. And then he

481
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.039
noticed there were two of them,
and he said, as he was watching,

482
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.679
they sort of glided up the hill
and he said they were going so

483
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:23.440
fast that it was no way that
it was his friend. You know,

484
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:25.840
his friend had two fake knees something
like that, you know. And I

485
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:30.280
mean, like his friend wasn't going
to glide up a hill. And he

486
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:34.599
witnessed it right in that area.
So that area does have its own its

487
00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:39.159
own sort of its own sort of
history with big foot stuff. And like

488
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:46.519
I said, the Cave area.
A former employee at the lodge was heading

489
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:52.679
to work one day one night,
actually heading to work one night and witness

490
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:55.599
something. Witness this black shape sort
of stand up from the side of the

491
00:34:55.679 --> 00:35:00.039
road like it was setting on the
side of the road, stand up,

492
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:05.800
walk sort of parallel to the road
for a bit and then cross and when

493
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:09.440
they got to work, Um,
they said, I saw something that I

494
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:13.559
can't explain, you know. They
told their their boss that They're like,

495
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:15.719
well, I was on the way
to work and I think I saw a

496
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:19.280
big foot, you know. So
they actually put them in contact with some

497
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.000
bigfoot researchers who came out and investigated
and collected a print from the from the

498
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:29.559
soft shoulder on the side of the
road right there at the cave. And

499
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.519
uh, right in that area,
that whole that cave area, that's where

500
00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:36.440
the rock throwing happened. And like
I said, that's where the closest thing

501
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:40.880
to a footprint that I've seen.
Uh, that's where that's where I saw

502
00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:46.320
the closest thing to a footprint that
I have personally witnessed. Um was right

503
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:50.920
there. Um and that whole area. So there's there's lots there's sort of

504
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:55.199
these little hot spots and salt fork
you know, um, and the cave

505
00:35:55.760 --> 00:36:00.639
and a loop are two of them. And then we have group camp and

506
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:06.599
group camp is kind of out in
the Willie Wags compared to the rest of

507
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:08.559
the park. It's like a it's
an area where say, a Scout group

508
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:14.280
or a church group could could could
rent. And it's a primitive site,

509
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.320
but you know it's for a large
like for a large group, and it's

510
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:23.599
a real primitive like there's no water, yeah, and there's no potable water.

511
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:27.840
It's pit latrines, you know what
I mean. Um, And it's

512
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:30.840
where I think probably the last time
we talked, I had I had talked

513
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:35.239
about the tree knock that I had
heard the one time. Um, probably

514
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:38.480
yes, Um, but yeah,
so which is a whole other thing like

515
00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:42.360
tree knocks. I don't get me
started, because I kind of don't think

516
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.239
that they're probably not knocking a piece
of wood on a tree, you know,

517
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:52.559
it's probably mechanical. But um,
the that area has there's an area

518
00:36:52.639 --> 00:37:00.000
within group camp that Bigfoot researchers like
affectionately called the bleachers because multiple times people

519
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:05.840
have witnessed, you know, like
a small group of sort of large shadowy

520
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:09.800
shapes just sort of watching whoever is
camping in the group camp. You know,

521
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:14.400
So they kind of call they call
that area the bleachers because they just

522
00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:17.800
sort of you know, there's an
area where like people will witness stuff just

523
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:22.079
sort of watching whoever's camping there.
You know, which is pretty creepy,

524
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:27.159
right, I mean that's a you
know, um, yeah, that's really

525
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:29.639
creepy. Yeah, yeah, right
right. And like I said, the

526
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:35.360
researchers that stay there frequently refer to
that area as the bleachers. And it's

527
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:38.480
interesting. I talked to so where
I had that tree knock and kind of

528
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:44.159
some stuff happened in that area.
I had gone back to a there was

529
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:46.719
a research group standing back there,
and I went back just to chat with

530
00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:51.440
him, and this one old fellow
walks up and he I said, uh,

531
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:53.840
I said, yeah, right over
whoever's staying over in that camp site.

532
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:58.239
I'm like, that's where. That's
where I had like the closest thing

533
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:00.039
to an experience that I've ever had
to get. And it's no smoking gun,

534
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:07.400
Like I I can't say with any
certainty that there's something out there.

535
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.400
I know that there's something out there
because people are seeing something, you know

536
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:15.000
what I mean, But like,
I haven't experienced something that tells me like

537
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:21.639
one hundred percent there's this undiscovered primate, you know, but there's got to

538
00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:24.360
be something to it. And that
was the closest experience I've ever had to

539
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:29.320
like an encounter was right in that
area, and he's like, oh,

540
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:31.920
that is exactly that's exactly why I
picked that spot every time we camp here.

541
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:36.199
He's like, I picked that spot
because something happens there every time.

542
00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:38.159
He said. It might be simple, he said, it might be acorns

543
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:42.440
getting chucked out of the woods and
hit my tent, he said, but

544
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:45.199
something happens when I stay in that
spot every time. And I'm like,

545
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:49.079
well, I mean something happened there
when I stayed there, and it was

546
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.960
enough to like creep me out,
you know, So so yeah, I

547
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:57.239
mean we And like I said,
man, I get I get stories like

548
00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:00.880
once a week through at the park, but some of them are so so

549
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.880
incredibly hard to vet, you know. And some of them are as simple

550
00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:07.239
as like, oh, I was
you know, I was driving one night,

551
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.320
man, something ran across the road
in front of me, and for

552
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:12.400
the life of me, I don't
know what it was, you know.

553
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:20.159
And And unfortunately, on the other
side of this, because Salt Fork has

554
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:27.320
such a history and has such a
it's so popular at the park, we

555
00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:30.039
also have a lot of hoaxes that
have happened. There are a lot of

556
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:35.440
there's really good videos that get every
once in a while, they'll show up

557
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:38.639
on social media. You know,
somebody will dig them back up and they're

558
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:42.280
they're not real, Like we know
that they're not real, Like we know

559
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.400
who did them, those sorts of
things. And it's kind of unfortunate.

560
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:49.880
You know. The same goes anywhere
where there's like a prevalence of this sort

561
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.320
of stuff. You get those hoaxes, and that's kind of unfortunate because that

562
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:57.519
makes our job more difficult because I
gotta suss out, well, was it

563
00:39:57.599 --> 00:39:59.760
somebody in a suit? You know
what I mean, Like that's I gotta

564
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:01.320
sus out whether it's a hoax or
not, you know what I mean.

565
00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:07.559
Um, And that makes it but
um, I do, I do.

566
00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:14.519
I do believe a fair number of
people that I talk to because many of

567
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:20.280
them, uh don't have any skin
in the bigfoot game, so to speak,

568
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:23.559
you know what I mean, Like
they're not hardcore researchers. Yeah,

569
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:29.679
so there there is a good portion
of people who like don't seem to have

570
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:32.199
any reason to kind of you know
what I mean, Like they seem like

571
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:37.039
normal people, Like they're not having
a psychotic episode. They seem like normal

572
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:40.119
people, you know, And uh, it's it's hard for me to completely

573
00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:45.119
disregard them. You know, Um, it's hard for me to disregard,

574
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:49.559
uh, some of those stories in
particular. I mean even not from like

575
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.239
I mean from Salt Pork, but
I mean a few years ago, a

576
00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:58.639
few years ago, a nice you
know, little old lady with her family

577
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:00.840
at the park, uh, came
over and she was looking at I've got

578
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:04.880
a map where people can put pins
in if they've had an experience. You

579
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:07.559
know, it's a map of Ohio
and if they've had an experience, and

580
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:13.519
some of them, like clearly you
know, they probably didn't see big Foot

581
00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:15.559
in downtown Columbus, you know what
I mean, like in a metropark in

582
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:21.760
downtown Columbus, like which hopefully not. Yeah, like you know you probably

583
00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:28.000
didn't like but you know so,
But the map's kind of interesting because you

584
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:31.000
start seeing like trends, you start
seeing where we're like pins will start to

585
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:35.719
cluster together, you know what I
mean. And most of them are in

586
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:42.000
areas where like it's heavily wooded,
lots of vegetation, or it's heavily agricultural,

587
00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:45.320
which is another interesting thing, you
know. Um, And I had

588
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:50.119
this lady and she's like, well, you know this is only Ohio,

589
00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:52.639
and what happened to me happened in
West Virginia. And I was just a

590
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:54.440
kid, she's and she said,
it was right right over the border.

591
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:58.000
Can I put a pin? Can
I put a pin in the white spot

592
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.599
on the map where about where it
would be in West Virginia? I said,

593
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:02.679
yeah, sure, did you know? Do it? Like? So

594
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:06.199
she put a pen like in the
blank spot and I said, do you

595
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:08.400
want to tell me your story?
And she said yeah. So she's like,

596
00:42:08.440 --> 00:42:12.639
I'm old enough that I actually went
to a one room schoolhouse. You

597
00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:15.960
know. She's like, I went
to school up to like fourth grade in

598
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:20.639
a one room schoolhouse. And she
said that, you know, she remembers

599
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:24.400
very clearly when she was and there
was one one spring where there was a

600
00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:29.920
monkey who kept bothering the school.
There was a monkey that would come in

601
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:34.199
and look in the window at the
school. And and she's like, you

602
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:37.079
know, it wasn't until I was
older that I realized that West Virginia didn't

603
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:40.920
have monkeys, you know, like
and uh and you know that it probably

604
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:45.000
what And I'm like, you see, but I have She was like a

605
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:45.960
little old grandma, you know what
I mean, Like she could have been

606
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:50.719
my grandma, and it's really hard
for me to just be like yeah,

607
00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:52.559
and that might be a bias that
you know, it's a you know,

608
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:57.239
observational bias thing, you know what
I mean, where I'm like, oh,

609
00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:00.400
you're a sweet little lady. You
wouldn't lie to me. But it's

610
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:04.960
really hard for me to dismiss yeah, right, you know, um,

611
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:07.119
really hard for me to And it's
also kind of a fascinating story. She's

612
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:09.480
like, oh, yeah. It
wasn't until I was older that I realized

613
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:15.000
like we probably weren't seeing a monkey, you know. Um. So so

614
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:19.119
I get stories like that quite a
bit. I have a question for your

615
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:24.159
regarding stories that come into you.
Would you say most of them are like

616
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:28.960
I kind of caught a glimpse of
something I couldn't really see it, or

617
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.400
there are do you get anywhere it's
like I literally was looking at the face

618
00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:37.639
of the creature. It's a it's
a primate ieside dead on or is it

619
00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:42.719
kind of like glimpses in the shadows? I guess a majority of them,

620
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:45.800
as you kind of would expect,
are like I was out and we saw

621
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:49.960
something, you know, something went
running through the woods. There are I

622
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:52.800
have had people come in and tell
me, like I saw this, you

623
00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:58.639
know, I clearly saw it.
Um. A gentleman fishing fishing just outside

624
00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:02.400
the park saw something across the creek. He was fishing, like in the

625
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:06.159
spillway area where our damn is,
so it's kind of a creek, you

626
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:09.920
know. Uh, he was fishing
in the creek and across the creek he

627
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:13.559
saw something that he described, you
know, and he said that it it

628
00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:16.480
basically it scared him because it kind
of went crazy. He said, it

629
00:44:16.519 --> 00:44:20.920
went crazy like a monkey goes crazy, tossing leaves and sticks and things.

630
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:23.239
And he said, uh, he
said he took he took off, he

631
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:27.039
said, but he saw it.
He said it was a it was a

632
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:31.239
long tall uh, definitely a long
tall primate. And he said it was

633
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:36.239
behaving like a primate, you know. He said it was throwing sticks up

634
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:40.400
in the air and leaves and making
noise and he saw it dead on um

635
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:45.480
and you know, it's it's scared
him. He actually he actually had reported

636
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:51.760
that one to a researcher. UM
and it scared him. He said,

637
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:52.519
you know, he's like, I'm
a vet, you know, and it

638
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:57.400
like a veteran and he's like I'm
I'm not scared of much, but it

639
00:44:57.880 --> 00:44:59.719
scared me, you know, he
said, it's because it was just so

640
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.679
it was something that you don't expect
to see, you know, in southeast

641
00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:07.360
Ohio. You know. Um,
so yeah, I mean we do.

642
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:13.119
We do get instances where people have
We've you know, we've got the sort

643
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:15.119
of tent pokers, you know what
I mean, people have reported something like

644
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:21.760
pressing down the top of their tent. You know. That's um, hold

645
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:25.039
on, hold on. So I
find that very interesting because I just talked

646
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:30.039
to a gentleman from New Hampshire had
the same thing happen. So is this

647
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:34.440
like a normal occurrence that's happening in
Salt Fork. It's not. It's not

648
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:36.760
normal. I mean, I don't
have people come in all the time and

649
00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:37.880
tell me like, oh, you
know, something pushed down on the top.

650
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:43.480
But it's one of the things that
has been reported. It's not just

651
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:45.719
been reported here. I mean,
um, I don't know. If you

652
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:52.639
know, John Manzinski has a he
has a story about kind of pushing pushing

653
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:54.679
down on his tent, you know, and him thumping at the knee,

654
00:45:55.039 --> 00:46:00.719
you know what I mean. Um
and uh, I mean it's something and

655
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.639
it would Again, I try to
look at all this from like a naturalist

656
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:07.159
standpoint, where it's like, well, is there is there like a precedence

657
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.719
out in nature for this sort of
thing? Well, it's like yeah,

658
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:13.960
I mean, look like a raccoon
is curious, you know, or a

659
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:17.360
black bear. Like if there's something, if there's this little pod and maybe

660
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:22.239
you know, you might have like
granola bars or something in your you know

661
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:23.719
what I mean. If it smells
like food, if it smells like an

662
00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:28.679
easy meal, you know what I
mean, something's going you know it would

663
00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:30.639
it would stand to reason that something
would be like, hey, maybe I'll

664
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:32.800
just I mean, we do that
kind of stuff, like oh, maybe

665
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:36.760
I'll just poke it, you know
what I mean, Maybe I'll just poke

666
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:39.039
it and see, you know what
I mean, what's in there? Yeah?

667
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:42.360
Yeah, right right? Oh oh, I don't want to mess with

668
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:44.559
that. It's screaming whatever it is, I gotta get, you know what

669
00:46:44.599 --> 00:46:50.719
I mean? Uh like that?
Yeah? Are most of the reports you

670
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:57.719
get pretty tame? Or are there
any aggressive occurrences that happen in South of

671
00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:00.840
Park? Most of them are pretty
tame. Again, most of them are

672
00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:04.760
like, uh, I saw something
across the road, Um, I had

673
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:07.000
a gentleman, I don't know,
a couple of years ago, come to

674
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:09.679
a hike, come to a bigfoot
hike, and tell a story about being

675
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:16.480
bluff charged. I was kind of
skeptical about his story, mostly because of

676
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:20.920
the word bluff charge, Like it
seemed like he had sort of had that

677
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:22.400
he'd sort of built up this scenario
in his head, you know what I

678
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:27.760
mean. But I mean this,
there was a story about a gentleman being

679
00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:30.079
like bluff charged, like you know, something ran kind of toward him and

680
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:35.920
stopped just short and until he ran
off, you know. But yeah,

681
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:38.039
I don't get other than like the
rocks getting chucked out of the woods,

682
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:40.559
you know. I mean, I
guess that could be. I guess that

683
00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:45.360
could be kind of viewed in an
aggressive you know light, you know what

684
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:51.239
I mean, rocks getting chucked at
some fishermen. But yeah, it could

685
00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:53.280
be I don't know, you know. Again, this is this is where

686
00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:59.559
I start to like, this is
one of my shortcomings. Is I have

687
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:04.760
such a time, like wild wildly
speculating about what things mean when it comes

688
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.039
to experiences and things like that,
you know what I mean. And it's

689
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:14.320
one of the things that frustrates me
from like a naturalist and biologist standpoint is

690
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:21.719
like animals behave, they will behave
in odd ways for no reason sometimes,

691
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:23.840
you know what I mean, Like
sometimes animals are just behaving weird, you

692
00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:30.159
know. But for the most part, you can kind of animals are kind

693
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:31.360
of predictable, you know what I
mean, Like you kind of know,

694
00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:36.480
um, what's going to happen with
animals, Like for the most part,

695
00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:38.280
you can kind of guess what's going
to happen, Like you can read an

696
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:40.920
animal's body language and things like that, you know what I mean. They're

697
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:46.719
they're kind of predictable. But this
is something that we don't have much real

698
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:52.199
information about, you know what I
mean, Like so wildly speculating that a

699
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:57.880
tree that you found twisted up is
because of uh, you know, frustration,

700
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.800
Like, oh, it was setting
here and people were walking through its

701
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:02.920
territory, so it was just twisting
this in a frustrated manner. Well,

702
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:07.800
it's like that's that's speculat It's pure
speculation. And I get so frustrated because

703
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:10.679
I'm like, we don't know enough. We do not know enough to start

704
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:15.360
speculating about what things mean. How
about we how about we start focusing on

705
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:20.280
like what is out there? You
know what I mean? What could potentially

706
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:22.519
be out there and not get so
lost in the weeds with some of the

707
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:25.119
you know what I mean, Like, oh, what's this mean? You

708
00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:29.519
know what I mean? The tree
knock thing, Like I said, yeah,

709
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:32.440
people bring that up. I'm like, don't get me started on tree

710
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:37.400
knocks. Like, Okay, so
you're saying you hear three tree knocks,

711
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:42.199
it means, oh, there's three
you know, like you happen to be

712
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:44.880
with a group of three people.
So if you heard three tree knocks,

713
00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:47.119
that means that they are letting the
other ones know that there are three people

714
00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:52.920
out there, you know what I
mean? Like that that is pure speculation.

715
00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:55.519
Yeah, yeah, right, Like, but but if you're if you're

716
00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:59.519
talking to the public, if you're
doing a public program and you're the big

717
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:02.280
foot p some like, you're the
researcher that's doing a public program, which

718
00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:05.679
is awesome by the way, that
you're doing library So though I saw that

719
00:50:05.719 --> 00:50:08.800
on Instagram. That's awesome that you're
doing like public education stuff. Oh yeah,

720
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:13.079
that's aw let's put a plug in
for that real quick guy. Yeah,

721
00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:15.000
So yeah, go ahead, if
you want to hear a bigfoot presentation

722
00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:22.679
I'm doing July twenty eighth Earlam Public
Library because they found out that there's a

723
00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:27.480
person in their town that does a
bigfoot podcast. So I may have told

724
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:30.159
them too, I don't know,
but you know, yeah, but I

725
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:31.679
mean public education is the best,
Like that's you know what I mean,

726
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:36.760
Like it's awesome that you're going at
so but you know, like in a

727
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:39.679
position where you're educating the public,
like the lay public, you know who

728
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:44.239
is not who aren't bigfoot researchers who
are just showing up because they have an

729
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:49.000
interest in it, you know,
and you say that like, oh,

730
00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:51.519
well, there are three tree knocks
means there's three people, you know what

731
00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:53.800
I mean, they see three people, there's three three tree knocks. Then

732
00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:57.480
they take that to mean like,
oh well they know this, you know

733
00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:00.639
what I mean, And it's it's
like it's kind of counterproductive, you know

734
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:05.280
what I mean. Oh well,
the bigfoot researchers said that, So it's

735
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:07.079
true, Well we don't know anything, you know what I mean. And

736
00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:10.599
that's giving them like an awful lot
of credit, Like that's you know what

737
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:14.880
I mean, that's giving them an
awful lot of like this animal, we

738
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:19.079
don't know anything. About that you
know, may or may not exist depending

739
00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:22.440
on where you fall, you know
what I mean. You're just kind of

740
00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:27.119
saying like it can communicate in like
a pretty advanced way, like you know,

741
00:51:27.320 --> 00:51:30.960
oh, I'll do these three treats, and then you know the idea

742
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.360
that it's a I use tree knock
because everybody knows what I'm talking about,

743
00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:36.719
you know, a wood knock.
Everybody knows what I'm talking about. But

744
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:39.920
I always challenge people. I'm like, I always kind of challenge people.

745
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:43.599
I'm like, all right, you
know, we're in a mixed appellation of

746
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:45.360
hardwood for us here in solve work, you know what I mean. Go

747
00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:53.159
out right now and find me a
log on the ground that's suitably dense that

748
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:59.639
you can pick up and make like
a Louisville Slugger home run noise by banging

749
00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:04.440
it again. It's another tree.
You know, it's surprisingly hard because most

750
00:52:04.480 --> 00:52:06.960
of them are like punky, and
if you do that, they're gonna like

751
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:09.360
blow apart and a million pieces,
you know what I mean, Like most

752
00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:12.480
of that. You pick up a
log off the ground in the woods,

753
00:52:12.519 --> 00:52:15.559
it's gonna be punky and rotten,
you know what I mean. And if

754
00:52:15.559 --> 00:52:19.159
you do find one that's like dense, it's covered in bark, like you're

755
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:22.440
you're not gonna be able to replicate
it. Kind of, it seems improbable

756
00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:28.559
that these noises that people hear,
these knocks, are coming, like it

757
00:52:28.599 --> 00:52:32.400
seems improbable that bigfoot has like its
own walking stick all the time that it's

758
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:37.840
walking around, you know, banging
on trees with um So, I've always

759
00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:42.639
assumed that if this thing is if
this thing is real, and if it's

760
00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:45.760
out there, it's probably some sort
of mechanism like it's probably popping its jaw

761
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:51.000
or you know, popping its lips
or even like you know what I mean,

762
00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:55.519
gnashing its teeth, something like that. Something that is then they can

763
00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:58.679
replicate it, you know what I
mean, Like they can they can do

764
00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:02.280
it over and over with the same
results, you know. Um So,

765
00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:08.039
I'm I've heard from a few people
to have been able to replicate the sound.

766
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:12.920
I want to say, Jonathan easily
is one of them. If not,

767
00:53:13.039 --> 00:53:15.360
sorry, buddy, you just got
to shout out in my bad but

768
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:21.880
um they're able to make this sound
by kind of clapping their hands in front

769
00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:24.480
of their open mouth. I've heard
in a way that I've heard that theory

770
00:53:24.519 --> 00:53:28.360
too. Yeah, then it makes
a similar sound, a similar sound,

771
00:53:28.440 --> 00:53:31.039
yeah, and that would make that
would make more sense, and it would

772
00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:34.760
make a would make so much more
sense to me than like, oh,

773
00:53:34.840 --> 00:53:38.559
they're finding a suitable piece of wood, finding a suitably large tree and doing

774
00:53:38.599 --> 00:53:43.360
that every time, you know what
I mean, It would make a lot

775
00:53:43.400 --> 00:53:45.320
more sense to me. And I
know, I know in some areas,

776
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:51.400
like in the Olympic Peninsula, they
have found rocks that seem to have like

777
00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:55.360
wear patterns on them, like they
were getting you know, maybe together,

778
00:53:55.639 --> 00:54:00.400
you know. Um, I mean
that seems more like again, it seems

779
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:04.039
more likely than like, you know, a wood knock per se. But

780
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:07.519
it's just kind of the generic term. That's at least that's my opinion.

781
00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:10.760
And again, like I'm wildly speculating
too, I'm just as guilty of it,

782
00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:16.599
you know. Like, but that's
kind of when I approach this sort

783
00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:20.000
of thing, and when I hear
stories, you know, I try to

784
00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:23.679
approach it from like un naturalists standpoint. That's kind of the like, you

785
00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:27.800
know, I kind of joke like
I'm the big foot naturalist. That's kind

786
00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:30.079
of like one of my instrum,
you know, like my Instagram bio has

787
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:34.440
the big Foot naturalists in it because
it's like, well, I'm doing this,

788
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:37.679
but I'm I'm I'm doing education and
I'm not so much like and I'm

789
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:42.159
trying to approach this from like a
naturalist standpoint, you know. So when

790
00:54:42.159 --> 00:54:45.679
I hear these stories, I'm like, man, why would it be behaving

791
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:47.679
like this? You know what I
mean? Is there a precedence out in

792
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:52.320
nature for something like this? You
know? I shine it is kind of

793
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:55.480
one of those weird things people.
I just I just got an alleged picture

794
00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:00.360
and it's kind of like, I'm
sure you see a fair number of shadowy

795
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:05.559
blobs outlined in red on somebody's phone, right, I'm sure, I'm sure

796
00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:07.800
you see a fair number of them. Yeah. Um, this is kind

797
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:13.960
of a shadowy blob with two keeps. I love them too. I love

798
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:15.320
them too. No, I'm not
bashing them. I'm just saying, like,

799
00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:20.360
you know, I'm sure you see
you know, um, and yeah

800
00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:23.159
I love them too. Like it's
yeah, it's great, it's you know,

801
00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:27.400
and it kind it kind of moves
the narrative forward to you know what

802
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:31.440
I mean, Like the whole it's
what drives this whole subject matter. You

803
00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:35.800
know. Um, so, yeah, I keep keep back shadowy blobs,

804
00:55:36.519 --> 00:55:38.880
but you know it's a shadowy blob
with two pinpricks of light, you know

805
00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:44.760
what I mean. And it's uh, I've always struggled with the eyeshine thing

806
00:55:44.840 --> 00:55:51.119
because there aren't there aren't uh like, there aren't great apes with a tapetum,

807
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.079
you know, a teed um loose
them at the back of their eye,

808
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:55.519
the tissue at the back of their
eye, you know what I mean.

809
00:55:55.639 --> 00:55:59.880
And it's like, well, it
doesn't mean there can it couldn't be

810
00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:04.159
an example of like evolutionary convergence where
two things evolved separately. I mean,

811
00:56:04.239 --> 00:56:07.800
wings are good, eyes, for
example, have evolved like the eye.

812
00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:14.400
The structure of the eye has evolved
separately multiple times throughout the history of life,

813
00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:19.239
you know. So you know,
it's not to say that there couldn't

814
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:22.840
be there couldn't be an evolutionary precedence
for it, where it's like evolutionary convergence

815
00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:28.000
where they evolved to feed them separately
from everything else, you know what I

816
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:30.159
mean. It's not to say that
that that's not the case. But I've

817
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:36.679
always struggled with the eye shine also, you know, because the animals climb

818
00:56:36.679 --> 00:56:40.800
trees, So raccoon can be eight
feet off the ground and has eyeshine,

819
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:45.960
you know what I mean. So
I like or a barred owl landing in

820
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:50.159
a tree, you know, landing
in a branch that's seven or eight feet

821
00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:52.719
off the ground. You shine your
light on it, and you get these

822
00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:54.280
two pin pricks that are eight feet
off the ground, you know what I

823
00:56:54.320 --> 00:56:58.400
mean, Like you get the two
glowing eyes that are eight feet off the

824
00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:01.320
ground, you know. Um,
So, you know, I don't know.

825
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:06.920
I've always struggled with the the eyeshine
thing. But I'm not gonna like

826
00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:09.039
dismiss it because we don't know,
you know what I mean, Like,

827
00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:12.920
we don't know for sure, so
I'm not going to just dismiss it completely.

828
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:16.440
John uh yeah, So thank you, thank you so much for sharing

829
00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:22.440
some stories from Salt Fork, very
very cool stuff at monster Fest. You

830
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:27.519
you were sharing with me that story
about the weird like horse. Yeah the

831
00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:31.639
horse got yeah, yeah, attacked
And we might talk about that after the

832
00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:37.519
show for the for the Patreon side
of things. But um, but thank

833
00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:39.960
you so much for coming on.
How How can people keep up to date

834
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:44.440
with you know, what, what's
going on in the world as Salt Fork

835
00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:46.960
and uh John and all that good
stuff. Um, as far as Salt

836
00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:50.800
Fork goes, if you just if
you like the Salt Fork Facebook page,

837
00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:55.519
that's usually the most up to date
thing. UM that's probably the easiest is

838
00:57:55.559 --> 00:58:00.599
just look for Salt Fork State Park
on Facebook. M as far as I

839
00:58:00.679 --> 00:58:05.960
go, if you you can follow
my Instagram, it's a hick and Bottom

840
00:58:06.039 --> 00:58:13.360
John on Instagram. If you follow
it, I mean I post occasionally post

841
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:16.920
things about Bigfoot, but mostly I
post some critters and stuff that I find.

842
00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:21.320
UM, but it's a good way. It's a nice way to keep

843
00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:23.159
in contact with people. I do
like. I like Instagram a lot for

844
00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:27.800
keeping in contact with people. So
it's Hick and Bottom John at Instagram.

845
00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:30.599
It's the big Foot Naturalist and you
can see all of our all of our

846
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:34.599
adventures here and some of the stuff
that I'm working on. I'm hoping,

847
00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:37.880
I'm hoping things are kind of like
it's summer, so things are kind of

848
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:43.239
crazy, But things kind of in
my personal life right now are slowing down.

849
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:45.519
Like I was actually working a second
job for a little while and things

850
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:50.239
were kind of hectic and I didn't
get quite as much as much done as

851
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:52.880
I as I wanted to, you
know, but now things are kind of

852
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:57.840
slowing down. Like I'm it's summer
and the kids are home, and I'm

853
00:58:57.880 --> 00:59:00.239
like, things are you know,
things are hectic at the part, but

854
00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:02.639
things are kind of slowing down here, and I'm hoping I'm hoping to actually

855
00:59:02.679 --> 00:59:07.280
eventually do some writing. I'd kind
of like to put together, like,

856
00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:10.760
you know, uh, something like
the Bigfoot Naturalists Field Manual, something like

857
00:59:10.760 --> 00:59:15.400
that, you know what I mean, not just to do Bigfoot research stuff,

858
00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:17.960
but something to like to be a
naturalist and how to do this sort

859
00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:22.639
of thing out in the field,
you know what I mean, and how

860
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:25.840
to approach this from a naturalist point
of view. Um So, I'm trying

861
00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:29.519
to like, I'm hoping to do
a little bit of writing eventually, and

862
00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:34.639
that'll all be Instagram stuff, you
know, good good Instagram fodder there once

863
00:59:34.679 --> 00:59:38.320
I get the ball rolling on anything
like that. Um So, yeah,

864
00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:43.119
I mean, lots of excying things. We're building a new nature center at

865
00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:45.440
Salt Work. It should be completed
in twenty twenty four, and uh,

866
00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:50.000
Bigfoot's going to be a central theme
in it. We're actually having having a

867
00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:55.119
We're having a real life size Bigfoot. The same, the same special effects

868
00:59:55.199 --> 01:00:02.360
artist bow Bruns that did the life
size Bigfoot on in Clips Museum is uh

869
01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:07.360
like inclip really music he's doing he's
doing one for us. Yeah, so

870
01:00:07.360 --> 01:00:10.360
that's going to be pretty cool.
Yeah. Oh wow, that'll be really

871
01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:15.760
cool. Yeah, so that is
really cool, man, it should be

872
01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:20.039
cool. Yeah. So lots of
stuff happening. It's all exciting, awesome.

873
01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:22.639
Well, John, thank you so
much for coming on again. And

874
01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:25.000
if you go to a big Foot
conference you may just be lucky enough to

875
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:30.119
see John in person. Just look
for the amazing mostache. But so good

876
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:32.159
chatting with you, dude. It's
a good chatting with you two. Thanks

877
01:00:32.199 --> 01:00:37.239
for having me on. Before we
go, just want to say thank you

878
01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:40.679
to all the new listeners that have
joined Bigfoot Society over the last few weeks

879
01:00:40.719 --> 01:00:46.119
on our podcast platforms and on YouTube. You guys are incredible. Things are

880
01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:52.440
exploding. Just over the last month, I've gone from fifteen percent to thirty

881
01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:59.920
nine percent on the way to becoming
a full time Bigfoot podcast. I appreciate

882
01:00:59.920 --> 01:01:02.679
you guys so much. It really
makes a difference when you listen to the

883
01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:08.079
podcast weekly. Make sure you're subscribed
and share this episode with a friend.

884
01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:14.480
And also an online Bigfoot Facebook group
or any other groups that you're in.

885
01:01:14.760 --> 01:01:20.000
Thank you so much here at Bigfoot
Society. Article is to provide a platform

886
01:01:20.119 --> 01:01:24.719
for those that have encountered Bigfoot to
share their encounter in a safe and respected

887
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:30.599
environment. But we need to hear
your story. If you've experienced something that

888
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:37.320
you just can't explain, please send
me an email at Bigfoot Society at gmail

889
01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:40.480
dot com. Then we can start
the conversation. I know a lot of

890
01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:47.239
you have not shared your encounter at
all. It's been twenty years and it's

891
01:01:47.320 --> 01:01:52.119
time that you get this off your
chest and then you can get some well

892
01:01:52.159 --> 01:01:55.840
deserved for rest because I know you
haven't been sleeping. I understand what you're

893
01:01:55.840 --> 01:02:00.159
going through, and I appreciate every
one of you listening. We hope to

894
01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:06.079
see you back next week for another
episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast.