Bigfoot Tales in the Appalachians with Jeff Carpenter (Archive Episode)

0:00 Welcome to Big for Society. If you have Bigfoot activity to report from the same areas discussed in this episode, please reach out to me directly after this episode. And if you'd like to be on the podcast to discuss a personal Bigfoot encounter, please reach out to me directly at Big for Society at gmail dot com. Do you wish there was more Big for Society to listen to you every week? Well there is now. If you become a supporting member over at Patreon, you get a special members only episode every single week on Wednesdays, and sometimes even more episodes. Head on over to patreon dot com. Forward slash the Big for Society and now let's get on with the show. All right, Big Faciety. We got the privilege of talking to mister Jeff Carpenter from the great state of North Carolina tonight. How's it going, Jeff Good?

0:47 I was just laugh a little bit about that mister thing. Jeff works just fine. Makes me feel real old. Mister Carpenter is my father, and you are you are in a cool part of North Carolina. You're out in the western part near Cherokee and the Great Smoky Mountains, and you got all that cool stuff going on, and just to give a little background about you, and we'll hear much more later. But you're with the BFRO. You're with the KBRRO, which is a Kentucky Bigfoot research organization, and you've got some other another group you're in, but we'll hear about that later. But how's it going tonight out there, Jeff. It's going good, a little better than the first time.

1:28 We try to think. We both were having some electrical storms going on last week, but doing great. Jeremia, I live in a little background living Sevil, North Carolina. That's Syova. It's right near Cherokee, North Caroline, where most people know because of the casino now and the Smokies. We're just right outside. I'm about ten miles out of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park in western North Carolina and lived here. My family's been here in western North Carolina since the early late seventeen hundreds, and we have a rich I like to talk about a little bit. It's okay about my Appalachian history. And when we were talking on the phone, it was really neat to hear that you're you and your dad both had read the fox Fire books. And I like to tell people my family or just Appalachian people that grew up right outside of Clayton, Georgia on the North Carolina line in Otto, North Carolina. And they were my grandfather, Harley Carpenter, and I think he might have a picture of Papa All there. He was one of the first people interviewed for the fox Fire Books series, and later on they made a play out of the book and yeah, that's Papall telling the telling tale there.

2:39 He was definitely a mountain man for sure, and loved a lot of things, you know. There. He was one of the first people get interviewed for the fox Fire books. And my great aunt, Aery Carpenter by marriage, was the person they made the movie about with John Denver and Hugh Crohn and Jessica Handy. She played ain't Airy Carpenter And that's on the cover of the first book. I think that you said you have there. Oh was there a movie about it too? Yeah, it was made as a Hallmark movie. Yeah. The whole gist of the story, which is really impactful nowadays, is you know, they didn't want her husband to died and she was her son, which was John Diver, was trying to get her to sell her mountain property and moved down to outside of Atlanta, and she just didn't want to do that, you know. And she lived a little cabin, little cabin type thing. And I'm just very proud of my mountain heritage, and I bring this up at all my presentations because I do want people to understand where I'm from and my family in my background, because it's a little different. I had a great upbringing by my parents. Now, they were very country. Some people would call my family's dirt people, which is a derogatory mark in my mind, but through Appalachian mountain people. And there's my father, Irving Carpenter. He was just hard for me to talk about my dad. He's been passed away about thirty years now. Now. It gave you that picture because he's really proud in that when he won the

4:10 biggest gobbler contests in nineteen eighty one, but that was Deaddy was a mountains man, mountain man that they've written stories about. My daddy's nickname was Old High Top. He just loved the mountains more than anybody ever met. And I grew up. I think I went raccoon hunting the first time when I was maybe six years old or five of my dad. So I'm very comfortable being out in the woods of a night in the dark. And Deddy helped. By the way, give you a little tidbit there, Jeremy, he helped restock the turkey back in western North Carolina through the Wild Turkey Federation. They were about gone. Papa used to call him mud hens, that was one of his nicknames for him, but grew up learned how to call them with a briar releaf and things like that.

4:55 But I always tell people Appalachian people, you know, were looked down upon a lot of it's because of the movies and things, but uh, they were probably the most resourceful people. You know. Then, in my opinion, invented recycling. My grandfather on both sides never would throw away now because it was hard to get to come by. The reason I bring all this up, though, to kind of cut short here, is to people understand my background. As my father raised me. He was a master tracker. And uh again we gensang hunt deer, hunt raccoon, that fish. But we just would just spend a lot of time in the woods and uh, you know, he taught me about looking at track and sign it's not the big things you look for is to subtle things that you try to find, you know, that type of thing. And uh, he was just the best. He raised a lot of other guys besides me and my brother out in the woods and uh uh he was just a real special person and always paid tribute to Dad. He kind of got me here. I'll never forget Jeremie real quick. Like we were sitting in a place called Deer Cove and hopefully some of your listeners might know where that's at the county North Carolina, but it's a real remote place.

6:02 We were jensan hunt and sitting on a ridge. And I'll never forget dead with sitting over on a log away from just doing that far away look, you know, which I always kind of dreaded when I was a kid, because that means we're going to go walking over that next ridge and there's no flat land where we live at. And he just said, you know, Jeff, you need to listen to the woods or the mountains. Sometimes they got something to say. And I found that very prophetic now kind of what I've gotten into, you know. So I don't think he ever had any strange sightings. He never missed to but he did see mountain lions. He's seen two mountain lions in his life, and which is a very rare thing to see here. I know people say they're not here, but they do cruise through the area sometimes, I do believe, and I've seen tracks, but I've not actually seen one. But one of the things though is Appalachian people telling the truth is a big thing, as you probably know, just the way we're raised and lyings kind of sin pretty much, and it's just you're supposed to be straightforward and truthful to people in honest that type of thing. And I always kind of preface that because the things I tell people actually what happened, word for word, citing for citing what I heard, what I heard.

7:16 It's just who I am, and it's been very successful for me for what I do. But this is what I am, and also my background to tell people that's listing. I was a parks and recreation director for about twenty eight years. I worked for Jackson County, North Carolina for thirty two years, and I'm a parks and recreation back graduate from Western Carolina University and one of the first people in my family to graduate from college. So really proud of that. And that's a lot of my dad's doing again, and you know, he was just very much about education and learning things. But he taught me a lot about the woods that you just can't you just can't get any other way, if that makes sense.

8:00 That makes total sense. A lot of that that knowledge about the woods, especially from that area, you're not going to find in a book, but if you do, it's in the fox Fire books. You know, as you alluded to, you know, my my I guess you could say my father was a naturalist uh slash camp director and he had those books and just the info in those books were just incredible. You know, I read them when I was about ten, but that was my first introduction to to the ways of Appalachian Appalachia, even though we lived up in the northeast. And uh, it's just cool listeners.

8:40 I'll have the links in the show notes. They're cool books. If you can find them. Uh, you're kind of hard to find now, they're very hard to find. And by the way, there's a museum in Dealer, Georgia. You're mind if you've ever done this way, and if you are, I appreciate you. Holler at me, I'll kind of take you around, but there is a museum there that's really neat for people to say. It's in Dealer, Georgia. It's a official fox Fire Museum. You know. Oh wow, Yeah, totally. I'll put that on the on the the trip list, uh, because we'll get over there eventually for expedition Bigfoot Museum. So uh. I wanted to real quickly explain to people about our area that we live in Germany, lived near the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, and you know, years ago, you know, I didn't really think about Big pill Lot.

9:27 I've seen the film, but you know, that was kind of thing out northwest. You know, it's kind of cool, you know, but just didn't really think about it being here at all. But one thing a lot of people don't know about is how much public land we have in western North Carolin. I just want to give your listeners a little state of everybody thinks about the Smokies, but the Smokies is really basically the smallest, one of the smallest that we have. So and these are all connected heremid They're all connected. There's Pisgon National Force. I'm gonna look at my notes if you don't mind. So I get the numbers right. Pison National Forces near Asheville is five hundred and twelve thousand acres. Then we have the Natahala National Force, which by the way, in Cherokee means land of the Noonday Sun. It has five hundred and thirty one thousand acres. And then we have Chattahoochee National Force, which is kind of North Carolina Georgia kind of you know, kind of goes across two or three states.

10:19 That's eight hundred and sixty six thousand acres. And then the Smokys has five hundred and twenty two thousand acres a little more than that. So you have two men and four hundred and thirty two thousand acres that's connected. That's public land, and that's how big an area it is. And people don't really look at it that way. They look at the Smoky's and they just, I guess, just don't really realize that they're all connected and it's a vast area. So what I'm getting at is a good friend of mine on Mitch and I think you've interviewed him, Matt Prude. He's one of the better researchers you ever meet. Great book out. By the way, I'm talking to him this week about his book actually.

11:01 Again, yeah, yeah, yeah, tell him. I said hello, and we talked watch twice a month. Matt got me into this stuff, and I'll mention here in a minute, but it's he's like, Jeff, why do you go other places? You got the best place and on the East for sure for to research in. And so I spent a lot of time here doing a lot of research, and I'm I'm more of a field researcher Jeremy. I like, this is the way I grew up. And since I'm retired now I've been retired about ten years, I get to spend a lot of time now. I'm just recovering fully recovered now from my fifth knee surgery, but from old college basketball injury. But it's a little set back this spring. But usually, say last I think it's last year or year before last, I camped eighty two days maybe doing research and I just I just like it.

11:50 Most time I'm by myself, and that sounds crazy and that's not a good thing for the listeners to do, but again I'm a little comfortable with that, and I make sure everybody knows where I'm at and I do like the idea of putting yourself out there a little bit where you're not a lot of people, if that makes sense, you know so, But that's our area, and it's again if people's not been to. The western North Carolina area is very beautiful. The Smokies is the most visited park International Park System and also a little stat for people that don't know, it's also the most if I can get this right because it costly changed here mana, it's the most biodiverse park in the National Park System, but also it had they're documenting the different species and this has been ongoing for years now. I think they've documented nineteen thousand different species in the Smokies and they think when they're finished, it could be up to one hundred thousand different species of you know, plant life, animal life, different things. And it's just they find all kinds of salamanders all the time. They're just a different species. It's a really interesting study there.

12:59 For such a diverse area and a wide area of land, there has got to be and I already know the answer that I know because I've talked to people. But there is a history of bigfoot in this area. That is intense. Yeah, for sure. Is that anything that you could share about, like how far does this bigfoot? Uh? These reports and the legends go back in the history of North Carolina where you're at. And now Matt's documented some of those about doing research on newspapers, he can tell you even more. But due to my lucky I'm just the luckiest guy in the world.

13:45 Sometimes things sometimes I think something's guided me to this kind of research. It's kind of weird, but as park director, I was over due to color Rock project, which is a piece of county properly now that was donated to us, which is the largest petroglyph in the Southeast. It's great and I think you have a picture of Judicola Rock there and a drawing we had depicted of Judicola which is actually Tuticola and Cherokee which means slant eyed giant keeper of the forest and the Cherokees have that was an artist rendering. In the background is an actual picture taking years ago where they had done the I guess it's kind of like it's not spray pack but chalk in the symbols. There's hundreds of symbols in this rock and even a copy of Judicola's hand kind of type of thing. But Judicola was a big legend, if you may, of the Cherokees, and he was the keeper of the forest, which a lot of people have heard about. Was your female.

14:47 And then Stoneman was a big around but I guess an enemy of Spearfinger. But stone men. If you see stone men, you turn the stale. We'll be back with more big foot society. After these were from our sponsors. Now my interpretation of that, Jeremiah would be you go into shop pretty much so. And there's also missing see other local legends, and it's not Cherokee. This would be more English legge. And back in the eighteen hundreds is Bougem, which is a local brewery now in Waysville. But Boujiem was a person that came into mining camps and would steal their food. And then there's also hoot Nanny. One of our famous authors here, John Paris. He's passed away years ago, but he wrote about mountain stories and hooton Nanny was a legend in Heywood County, near a place near Laurel Ridge. There was a lodge there in the eighteen hundreds and they would see this hairy wild woman.

15:51 It would come and whistle and hoot, and that's where the term he says, hooton nanny comes from, although that's debatable. You know that means dancing too, you know that type of thing. But there's just a lot of legends here locally of that. You know that type of thing when you dig into it, and there's a lot of stories that go I constantly get things that pop up out of the clear blue. One was years ago a guy told me about his great grandfather building the first train into Ashville. His great grandfather would talk about they had food being stole in the logging camp. He was a logger and they thought it was the campers getting in and sneaking the cook dead, and they hired a person to come in he said with dogs. This was relayed by his grandson to me that and they shot it and it was they said, looked like a monkey with notel.

16:49 Now keep in mind this was in the late eighteen hundreds, so they didn't know about gorillas in those days, So that I found out to be a fascinating report. He told his family of stories for years before he passed away. But there's a lot of older stuff in history in the mountains here, and of course the smoke he's has the miss so there's it makes it mysterious too, if that makes sense. Sometimes it's a very mysterious place. Did he say so they just shot at it or did they actually do you know he actually killed the creature? Now I never met the man. This is a cent a story. But he said it was shot and it was a smaller monkey, is what he would tell his family without a tale. This is a random story. Guy just riding the horse. When they bumped into me and said, hey, are you doing what I think you're doing? I said, you know when you hear that as researcher, like, oh, here we go. But then I found out he was a kin to my wife. His cousin is distantly related to my wife's cousin. So it was somebody. Now, this guy was in Georgia when I was talking to him, But he was referring to an instant happened to what's called Black Mountain when they're building the railroad up to Black Mountain in Nashville, North Carolina. You know that type of thing. But that is due to color. There a rending of that. It was a great project. We worked with archaeologists on that project. I did for probably about four years and worked with the Eastern Rock Art Society

18:21 and the Forest Surface and it's a great mysterious thing. We've had a couple of TV shows, and I don't want to say which one. I was before retired against them coming to femic because it went against the historical record that we had nun covered about the rock. You know how things can get changed a little bit or put into certain people's interpretations. But the county let them do it. So they've been two documentaries plus numerous YouTube videos done it. Due to Color Rock, and that's a j U D c U l L A jew to color is the English way of saying that.

19:01 That is extremely interesting. And those those those legends and how they're they're woven into you know, Native American history. It's just it's just so fascinating. How you know, you can you can start to wonder, you know, how how much of that is is related to to Bigfoot in Sasquatch and I know on the non the Pacific Northwest, uh, you have a lot of that with the the the Totem poles. But that's that's something I didn't know with the Judicola Rock. That's very cool. I'm going to look more into that for sure. Thank you for sharing that. It's really cool. Yeah they Uh, you know, most myths are based in some form of reality, you know. And real quick you hear me mention in just a minute about my son. He's an athlete. He's now a basketball recruiter for a school. And and then my daughter has an interesting job. She's older than my son, but she's my anthropologist by degree, and she's a zook keeper by trade, and she works with gorillas and primates on a daily basis is what she does. So I'm a little different than a lot of researchers I have heard about the ideas off of It's tough for her since she works at the North Carolina Zoos. She can't really comment publicly on things because they have to go through their media people.

20:21 But Commissia's very knowledgeable, so I know a lot about primate behavior for sure. You know, because of her. That would be of really interesting. Oh I bet you have some really interesting conversations that would be cool. Uh, yeah, we do. I'll mention one here in a little bit. I don't know if she'll appreciate me. Bishing it. But it's a little theory she had about just you know, sasquatch, which I like better than Bigfoot. You know, Bigfoot makes you think of just one. Sasquatches makes you think of me any kind of thing, and it's just a better name, I do believe. Uh. But yeah, I've had two sightings Jeremiah.

21:03 That well, I guess I should tell you how I got into this. Absolutely, and again it starts with my kids. I'm a again parks and wrec director and your dad, Ran I think you said, a summer camp with a camp director, and you know, being his son, how that works. You don't get to see him a lot. You know, it's interesting. It's a lot of fun, but it's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, So as a recreation programmer and recreation director for twenty something years, I was working a lot. But my son got up. My daughter never was interested in hunting, and I've quit hunting just because I'm into this, and I don't know, it doesn't really fit my profile really good. I never was much of a If I'm gonna shoot something, I'm gonna use it. You know, I just can't do that.

21:46 I just always been my nature, and so I was taking my son. The very first thing that I noticed here was he was about ten or eleven. I just took him the airport day. So I was trying to figure out, it's been so long ago. He's a be thirty this year. And I took him to go deer scouting to teach him, you know, how to deer scout and what it is. My dad had a little secret honey hole down near a river there in our area that was just a secret, good little place, and I was we always put out salt blocks or apples, things like that, but we never hunted over it, if you know how that works. And so I took him and it is a heck of a walk down it's really steeping mountain into this little hole near the river, perfect little pocket area. And he's just generally his war out, not much interest in things. But as we were coming back up the ridgeline, I don't know if you know about scouting, but you don't want to profile yourself on a ridge though. You want to kind of stay blow the break of the ridge and just kind of look over the ridge. So I was trying to show him that, and he was laying down the leaves like that I'm tired, you know, that type of thing. And I looked down in this area and it's kind of a bowl, and that's where we usually hunted at. But the salt block was over behind us, and I looked down there and in the middle this little area's a little opening, and there were two hemlocks, you know, probably about if I can get the direction right about, you know, yay, bigger round.

23:11 And I knew they were there. I just happened to notice that the tops route of them. Well, me being me, I kind of get into things as you has to have the researcher. I just walk off lots of times leave people. I just took off down the hill because I thought there's a bowl hunter and had my hunting spot because we had a stand in there. So we and again it's not the salt blockets over the ridge from me, so I go trumps and down through there. I just leave with you and it's just getting close to dark, you know. We get down there and I look up in these two big hemlocks, you know, about eight foot I think I measured about eight foot four both of them, and they're kind of growing together, kind of, you know, side beside, but there's nothing anywhere around them close to all the tops. When I got there, I was befuddled. They were twisted, twisted and peeled. The pill probably was at least two foot long, and I was just blown what you could see the fibers in the tree, Jeremiah, it was just I've never seen anything like that. I've seen plenty of black bear, I see, I think two years ago, I've seen seventeen black bear, you know, out researching and just goofing around. But they you know, they'll climb a cherry tree and strip it, you know, and then go down the bottom beneath the cherries off of it.

24:23 You know, that type of thing. So I'm looking for the tops right because I'm just befuddled. And wings made it down and he's laying the leaves again. He's like dead, You're stupid underneath the tree. And there was both tops that point first underneath the tree. They were dead. Really if I pull them out and I'm looking at them and already checked the tree, you know, hemlocks have really thin branches. They're not really so if some climbs that you could tell they break it like a bear or something, and raccoon can have done it. The only thing possible could have been a black bear. Well, the tops had no bottom marks, nothing, absolutely not. Now I'm really befuddled. It's hit me that Williams asking questions. I don't want to scare him because I wanted to go back to woods, you know, I'm like, what is going on? So I go back there a couple of weeks later, and I find two more of these things, and I'm really befuddled.

25:11 So I start going online. This was again, I think two thousand and four maybe, and geez, I'm just befuded. I'm doing all kinds of research now, and I heard about bigfoot. You can research it on the internet doing tree twist. I'm like, what, There's no way that can be here in western North Carolina. That's stupid. And then another time me and him were doing some scouting and we came across this little spot. It's hard to describe it. I hope I'm trying to describe things. I hope I'm doing a good job of putting pictures where people can imagine. But we were on old trail and there's some barbed wires and it was like a little bit of a wet weather spring. Jeremiah where water was seeping up and it's kind of mossy, but I could tell again subtle sign that something went through there. It just barely broke some of those briars a little bit. So I'd stopped to show with him, and it was just about dark getting dark and dusky dark, and we're close to the truck and he's like, I don't want to go, and I was like, well, something's been in here. Let's see what is. So I stepped in there. Once I got into that mossy, wet weather area there, it was this clean as day, about a fifteen and a half inch human like footprint. There were four of them. I didn't know what to think. I was befuddled. And my son's best friend played basketball. I won't mention his name because I hadn't asked to say his name at North Carolina.

26:33 He's six foot eight and he's dad six foot nine. He always has this really you know, has a large foot, and we didn't know how to refer. He said, Dad, that's bigger than my buddy's foot, you know, And I was like, he said, what is that? I was like, uh, you know, I didn't want to scare him. There's no way it was a double track. Because you know, I'm used to bear tracks and dead was a bear hunter. You can tell there'll be a little breaking that line of the track, if that makes sense for you. You might not see the toes, but won't make an even line. And I just like, no way, And then we went back over again. Growing up with my dad, we'd do night rides a lot just to see wild life when I was a kid, so I've always done those, So I started doing more of those. And one night men Wn was driving on a gravel road close to this spot, maybe four months later five and we hear the loudest how you ever hear. We were driving with the windows down and heard the how that's how loud it was.

27:28 So we stopped and anyhow and again, and of course he figured out by then what was going on. He's like, Dad, is that a bigfoot? What is that? And it's not a coyote and it's not al And that's the way I kind of think to tell listeners out there. I try to as much as I can jure in my debunt things, because it doesn't make any sense to go to the least likely thing first. You want to go the most obvious thing first and then try to work your way down to that, if that makes sense. But that's the way I got started. So years later I come on a website, come upon a wedbsite this guy in North Georgia, and I was like, Hey, that sounds cool. I'll call of guy. And his name was Matt Prut And Matt, he says it was two to three years.

28:12 We have a constant argument about how it took him to get me to come to one of these BFR things because I was just like, I hate said, I'm going out there with them crazy people, you know, and uh, he finally taught me into it now. And again it was a good timing because I was retiring in twenty thirteen and it was in my area he wanted to do when he wanted to use me as a resource and then as a you know, a lead, you know, kind of a you know, trail league guy of tonight. And what was weird was when we were talking the first time, he said, hey, have you been to this such and such spot? And that was where I was having all this activity yet and I hadn't even mentioned it to it. It was just a weird coinstance. But me and Matt has become really close. And I know you've interviewed Matt and gone to again. As you said, he's just a great resource and just he studies stuff.

29:04 It's amazing. And he's just a really good friend. He lives, you know, out so it's a little hard to get up with Matt, you know, and we still get together some and and again I was wrong about that. When I went there, I met a lot of people, biologist people, you know, all kinds of good researchers. It was a good thing. And after that night, that weekend, Matt wanted me to be a BFROO investigator, and so I started doing it. I'd been doing a little on my own for four or five years, and so I agreed to do it reluctantly. As you can tell as I when you call me or got hold of me. I've just I kind of like to be in a shadows sometimes. It's just my way of being things. So but Matt was a great resource and I do appreciate him get me started on this kind of mystery and it led to again my first sighting in twenty fifteen. So I think you have a picture there of that somewhere.

30:02 We'll be back with more Bigfoot society after these words from our sponsors. Yes, let's see, so that would be the is it the drawing? Yeah, the artist rendering. And by the way, Jeremiah, that was done by a researcher, a good friend of mine, Sheila Johnson and Kentucky. Okay, she's kind of taken a little break from research, her and her husband TJ. But Sheila had done some artwork and the way this worked again, like I mentioned, I like to take night rides, and boy, I got the best supportive wife in the world that's put up with me. But it was I think it was June. I have a note here somewhere June twenty third.

30:44 I think it was June in twenty fifteen, and it was very green. But what it was is the wax and crescent moon, which is, you know, a good hunting moon. It was real clear night, and I was like, you know, it's like ten o'clock at night here where I live, and this is research area where I saw that was well, actually I wasn't any research area, just driving one. It's about thirty miles away. So I just said, hey, I'm gonna go out and ride tonight and see if I hear something and make a little noise and take my recorders, which I do. And so I was going on up the road. Actually I was listening to a C d C, which Charlie Raymond loves. If you know Charlie with the Kentucky Bigfoot group, he loves that store because he likes a c DC. And down at the bottom of the mountain, I see three deer right, and I was like, oh yeah, So I start slowing down, you know. And as I'm climbing up this mountain on Highway sixty four, I don't like to give out the exact locations. Jeremiah and I apologize to everybody about that, but there's a reason behind it.

31:41 One is a light to keep an area fairly pure, because if you get a lot of people in the area making noise, you just don't know what's what, you know. And then also nowadays there's a lot of people with thermal scopes and they say they want to shoot one, and I just don't know it. That's not a safe thing, if that makes sense. But there's High sixty four and I was climbing up the mountain there, so I'd already slowed up, and as I come into what I call an S turn. Going through this S turn, I was only doing twenty mile iron and I see a coyote and a Cody was not It just struck me out. He was on the right hand side of the road, and I just about stopped. I let off the gas because I didn't know if he was going to run front him.

32:23 But he wasn't looking at me. I'll never forget he was not looking at me. He was looking across the road, which I thought was weird. He never looked at my truck, and so I just about stopped because I thought he might run in front of me. I didn't want to hit it. And then when I just kind of panned the way he was looking and this is what I saw off the guard behind the guard round. That's very steep where this was at, so it's hard to tell the size of it, but that's what I saw. And she did a good job on the draw, and it had one of his arms kind of curled like that, and I will tell you it didn't have fur. I got about a good three second look cause I just kind of coasted by, and I had audio running. Some of the audio. It's just that if I played it, you would laugh so crazy because all of a sudden I started talking to myself. It was just I couldn't believe. Well, I saw again a no neck, a low like a dome for a head. And again one of the reasons from talking to my daughter is, you know, the jaw line for some primitch or blow the shoulder, so from the back it'll look like there's no neck. You know, they're not like our jaw line, which is above the shoulders kind of thing.

33:30 That's increat I didn't know that. That's awesome. Yeah, if you look at Gorilla's you know, you'll see her chimps where their jaw line is, particularly gorillas. And it didn't have fur. That's a big thing I always like to give people my presentation the tips that I saw. It had hair, it scraggly hair. This is June, so it's kind of hot. It did have some stuff in its hair. I remember seeing that. And I could definitely see the back line, you know, the spine line, and as she drawled there, I couldn't it's such a quick glance at it. I could didn't see if it was gray hair or just kind of grayish light skim kind of it did move and I just coasted by. I couldn't believe, and I couldn't turn around real quick. I had to go up. And then I started trying to tell myself, oh, Jeff, you've seen a dead pine tree, because this thing was like a burnt brown color. You know how I did white pine of look Jeremiah, And so I said, okay, that's what was. You're just jumping to conclusions, you know, which is kind of like confirmation by us. You know, you're going to look, listen for something.

34:30 Maybe you just thought you saw something. So I cruised back down. Nothing. There's absolutely nothing there now. And I was like, holy cow, and I made some calls codies bark. You know, of course there's a pack of codies, because there's that one. Didn't didn't hear anything weird, went back up. I spent about four hours of poor Mad. I caught him at twelve thirty at night, just losing it, you know. And this is how great Mad is. And I ain't keep complimenting. He's going to have to pay me five dollars or something. But he immediately said, Jeff, just draw, I mean, I walk him up. He's like, Jeff, just start sketching, and which was a great tip. So I felt like the guy from Close Encounters, you know, where he's building a woming thing. You know. I must have seventy five sketches here where I was drawing, and I couldn't figure out the arm for a while. Then it hit me that it just had it curled up. And interesting tidbit on that my niney My mother passed away last year. She was two weeks away from being one hundred years old.

35:31 And I'll never forget showing her this the first time about a year later, because she kind of got interested in just watching shows and stuff. And the first time I showed her a cash from out with she said, oh, that's not a human. It doesn't have an instep. This very very matter of frank country, like you know. And then when I showed her this, she said what time of year was it? And I said June. She said, oh, it might have had a baby in its arm. I didn't even think about that. Wow, that's one of the most critible observation thought that's not. Yeah, yeah, it was just a thought by her because that code he was there, and I don't know. I did have my friend, one of my best friends, whose son played at North Carolina. He's six foot nine. He went there. I can't believe he did. It stood on side of the road the next day. And I can't tell you the heights, but I can tell you it was way bigger than him. Width was, It's very broad and had a very athletic if you notice a narrow waste, but it was. It definitely had to weigh it close to four hundred five hundred pounds, probably probably around four hundreds.

36:40 You know, people always underestimate or overestimate, like bears here. You know, I said, who was a five hundred pound bear? When most time it's two hundred fifty pound bear? And I do think that happens a Sasquatch a lot. But it was incredibly sight It was just an amazing thing. I'll never forget. I said a little prayer because I'm a very faith based person and I just couldn't believe. I knew I seen something very very rare, and I hope to see another one. And what was really weird about this sighting Larry Sidwell. I think you said you had interviewed. Lad to Larry. He's a great guy. Yeah, yeah, he is. I couldn't do this report. He had to do it on me because I'm an investigator, you know. So he did a report. But what was weird is before this, Larry didn't know I had a sighting.

37:29 He CAUs means, like, Jeff, you've probably heard of the BFR database, which is the flats. We call it a big database of possible sightings. Now a lot of them not being investigated. But you know, just there's just a bunch. And he said, Jeff, there's a sighting close to you. A guy had really not a sighting, I should say that heard a howl and found some a track and the guy was on apple atch and trail doing like a you know, a weekend high around this National forest there at Atahala and we'll tell you it's standing Indian National Campground area. And uh, I talked to the guy. I didn't even tell Larry I had a sighting yet, and I told him later. But that happened four days after my siding, and it's four point five miles from where I saw this at. So could be a weird coincidence, or it could be the same one. They had heard a howl of a night that woke them up. It was not a coyote. This guy raises his Christmas trees.

38:31 He has coyotes on his property up in Virginia, North Carolina line all the time. He's a great witness. So the next morning they were going down to applatching trail and his buddy's boot he'll come off. So they looked at the map and seen this little hidden trail is amazing. They found it on a map and I know it real well because of Dad, and it goes down to the campground. So they're trying to take a shortcut as they went down in this and if you'd imagine and Smoky Mountains or our area, this is outside of the Smokies, but it's we're a tempered rainforest just like out with So in June and July. I got in there about July fourth, where they were at the weed you six seven foot tall in this area. It's just crazy. But they found where something went through this trail crossed and they followed it for a little bit and they started finding these big imprints in the leaf matter. And that's hard to find because you know, the substrate dictates how you can find a track. People don't realize that hooks animals are completely different flat footed animals it's even hard to find bear attracts for people. Tracks you just can't.

39:40 But this was the kind of a wet area they were seeing that. Then he found some weird stuff like mushrooms that were picked but turned upside down sitting on a log near these tracks, which is kind of wild. And God was a great witness, but it was wild that it was only four days after my siding. And it's a good what I would call and I'm starting to give you information I don't really give before I call them corridors. You know, these things are constantly on the move. I wouldn't say they're nomadic in my opinion. These are just my opinions, Jeremiah. But I would say they have a massive territory though, and they're constantly moving, because that's the only thing that made sense. But that was my first sighting there. So sorry to ramble so much there, but.

40:25 About your savings. So I have two questions. Could you see any muscle definition underneath the hair any a few seconds, but just curious. That's a good question. I definitely could see some muscles in the shoulder area I'm trying to remember. And I definitely could see what's it called. I don't know the proper term for it, but you know in the lower back area above the butt area, the indentations. And I will also notice when Sistoke stood there. You know how people's shoulders roll in kind of. I noticed its shoulders rolled in kind of at the top of the shoulders.

41:06 But I did see muscle definition in the lower back for sure. It was very muscular. I don't know if you remember the wrestler Big Baan Vader that wrestled in the WWE for a long time. He's had this massive vader. Your how he had a thin waist. That's the way this thing. This thing had some massive shoulders and then this really athletic looking waste. It was phenomenal. Look, it would just took me back. But you know, like I mentioned to you before we started, and I hope I can say this quote I tell people. And when I asked me what happened, you know, it's a hell of a thing when a myth turns into reality and your body.

41:49 I just I didn't realize that. I went back in town like four hours later to all night Walmart to get me something to drink. Oh. I walked in. The guy, of course said welcome, Walmart, and then I realized I was drenched in sweat. I had this crazy my wife when I called her, she said, what is wrong with you? I just had this reaction. And that's one thing I look for in good reports is the way I don't tell people while I'm looking. It's hard to explain when you can't. You see something that's not really actually supposed to be there, so. It really it really affects the person, doesn't. That Oh it's yeah, it kind of yeah, you can't let it go. And then my second siding, real quick like it was from an East coast that's a group we have a researchers basically on the kind of midwest East coast area, a great group at Charles Kimbrow and Lori Wade and some other people at Starred Larry. Great people in there. And we got some reports about two fishermen on separate occasions and see something at a state park in Virginia. So we went up there and real quick like this sighting it was just again luck, but I was walking up to a group. We've been separated because I like to do a little technique where I stay back behind people and listen, and a guy just started researching who's a really good friend of mine now a fellow researcher, George rig who was with me wanting to stay back, and we kept hearing some things which I think was a separate one. But as we come

43:20 close to the group, my cell phone went off. My wife had text me. You know how you just randomly get a you know, a message signal, you know, And I was like, oh no, because I didn't want anything light in my face that night. I wasn't even using thermals or anything. But the moon was out and Georgia went past the group and the other two people with Rick rellis, I don't think they'll mind me miss your name. He's a BFR investigator. Reck's a great guy. He's guys I talked to like, yeah four years ago. He's so good. Yeah, yeah, a great fellow. And then Steve Poppleton, who's from Georgia, was with us, and as I walked up the group, I looked up the ridge because one of the techniques to Daddy always showed me hunting. So your profile again the ridge line, especially on moonlight at night, because you can see something move like an earflip or something's bedded down, so I was looking for a movement, but this wasn't on the ridge. It was blow the ridge.

44:09 I see this big, large I thought it was a burnout stump. You know how I kept I remember saying myself, I don't remember there being a fire, people talking about a fire. Here this dark thing, and it was pretty well lit up there, not where you could see facial features, but you can see just something dark. So come up, and Laurie said, they like to call me Jess Squatch. And that's another story for a different time in Kentucky. It's a funny story if you read Charlie Raymond's book. It's in his book. While they called me that, but uh, and George again had went on so and she just said, just watch what's up? And I said, I just sorry about my phone going off. And we were talking. I remember Rick was wrapping up his parabolic mic, and then we heard this sound with and we like, George's at you and he on the audio. We didn't catch it cause everything else happened. George goes negative like this real quiet, you know, like and uh, well I just told Laurie, I said, Lord, I think that was George, you know, And then I just made eye contact. I looked up the ridgelin again this kind of gully, you know, kind of this kind of like this went straight up, very steep.

45:20 We'll be back with more big Foot Society after these words from our sponsors. And you know again that stuff was there. Well when I made eye contact with it, I remember Rick was talking to Steve and putting up his pair of bolt and he was kind of turning towards me. I see this arm come out and he had hair hanging down. Now keep in mind, I know bears real well. Bears can't do that kind of movement, you know, where your arm goes out like this. You know, they don't have clavicles, you know, they don't have shoulders, but they just can't do that. And it kind of took me off guard. And then I see a leg and then it just takes off running astronomically fast. It's hard to describe how fast this was. And then Rick kind of sees it at the tail end of it because it goes kind of past my eyes out there's a little noll there and he because I say sorry, a cussword that I do sometimes and I hate to do that because it's startled me. You know, and the best way to describe what I saw was as a catcher in a squad and he takes off running, but he don't stand up.

46:29 He's just kind of leaning forward. Now, the movement I've never seen, you know. Again, I'm a basketball trainer. I trained kids for basketball, used to all, you know, for forty something years. I know movements, and I see Bear, you know, can't do a smooth move Jeremiah, where if there were squatted or standing up, it's more of a plot kind of you know, they just can't control that. If you've ever seen that in the video, it's just weird. They can walk a little bit, but when they want to go down to four, it's just pool and this thing on two feet by the way, leaning and one of a lot of Blackburn's books. Later on, I found a sketch that looks just like it. I forgot to send you a picture of that. Of course, I you know, had nast law to use it, but it's more like what I saw. It was about leaning just about completely over and it was so fast, but that was slowly kind of standing up. I see it maybe five steps, and of course Rick saw it, and then we kind of lose it, But that was that siding there, and it was a phenomenal to see the movement. That was something in all my years, I've never seen anything move like that. The only thing maybe I seen accelerate that fast is when I used to go well cut, I seen antelope out west that could accelerate that fast.

47:44 Wow, that must have been really fast. How how long was the hair hanging down from the arms. Well, it was about is a debate, and we had George go up there and run the next day and it was just way Bulker and George. But it's hard to tell. Again it's nighttime, but I did see the hair hanging out, but I would say two three inches good enough to tell they were hair there, if that makes sense. In the moonlight, maybe longer than that. But I definitely saw hair coming down and the arm come out straight from the body, not forward, you know, from the body towards me. It was to the side. That floored me. You know, you know that's only people can only do that. You know, it's just not a normal movement for any wild life you see. And again the size of it, George, I think weighed two hundred pounds, he said, in those days, I'm getting him pretty good right now. I said, those days he might be a little more of that, but it was just so much more bulkier than him. And I'm talking about the width of the thing. That's what I can't everybody gets focused on hot. I can't get off how wide and how strong these things are. They have to do a lot with their shoulders. They're probably on all fours a lot sometimes, you know, uh, or you know, digging.

49:02 Uh. They just what I saw was very powerful. Both times. It was a fascinating thing. So that's my stories, and I'm sticking to it. You know. I love first the first encounter. I have to ask, though, what a what a C d C song was playing when you saw the big foot before? I'd cut it down when I saw the deer a little quieter because I'd roll the winded down. Yeah, uh, you know, because I you know, I might see some wildlife, right. I think it was a highway to hell. If I'm okay, all right, that works. You sound like you're like a C d C. No, But I mean, if you're someone's gonna make the movie of your siting, they have to know what you know, They have to know what song to play.

49:44 So you don't do that. Maybe they get Brad Pitt to play me college. Yeah, that'll be a bad interpretation of me. If they get Brad Pitt. That's that's funny. Hey, Jeff, what we should play some of these sounds? What do you think? Yeah, that's one of the things I've gotten into again thanks to Mohuna Haley and David Ellis and people Charles Kimbro, I've gotten into just I love doing audio and we do long duration recorders. But the first one that I sent you out of the one I recorded, it's just hard to explain. I had this area and that's for another podcast, probably because it's just I've had so many things happen. But I had an area where Laurie was doing the expedition Laurie Wade if you know Laurie with the BFR. She does great expeditions, by the way, And I was doing a field leader. Again. I had five people with me that had never been in the woods of an Eye. We had a four pound rock front at us. I found the rock. Wow, it was crazy.

50:42 So I kept going back to this area having some things. I was working on Pavlos theory, you know, where I and make one sound immediately leave. Well, this time I decided I'm going to aggrevate George and Lourie. So I went up to this little field where we'd been having some activity and was trying to call them because of the signal there. So I broke my pattern a little bit. And basically what you'll do is you'll hear me. I was, you know, texting my y'all are working, and I'm just out here goofing off because I'm retired. I'm in the woods, you know, And of course I got them for a second, but I thought I heard something. And then you'll hear me walking a little bit, and then you hear a very clear wood knock, and then you hear me do what's called a descending whoop call, which they do a lot, and then you'll hear the reply. And I did amplify that reply, Jeremia, just so my presentations people can hear it better.

51:41 All right. So I'm trying to. Think that that was eighteen, I think, or something like that, ten something. Eighteen. Oh okay, yep, yep, yep. All right, let's try this one. Yeah, this is it. Okay, h. You'll hear me walking, that's the wood not and then that's the reply I got back. Yep, uh, I kind of cut it off. I did say a bad word at the end of that. Sorry, but I was just startled.

52:54 It sounded like a disembodied voice to me. Until again a good thing about audio. You know, it's hard to prove stuff with audio, but you can also just document better what you can hear. And sometimes jeremi, you want to hear something but there's actually something going on too. It's just weird how that works. But I sent that to Manga Haley David out West and there's a little bit of debate of whether it's one or two. But he thinks it's a triple whoop. I think it might be too. We put all our audio on audacity, which is a problem. We can do a spectrograph and look at it and the hurts it's at, and it seems to me it might be another one kind of quietening down another one, like a younger one. But it mimick me right back, and wow, I was just startled. To be honest, it was crazy. But audio is a good way to get involved in the research. It's very simple.

53:51 Just keep your recorder with you. I use mine on my backpack. It's constantly running. I've learned my lesson, learned that from Turkey hup with Dad. I'm the door going Turkey out and I'll sin there's a gobbler real qlose like in other words, you better cut that audio on right when you get out of the truck. You just don't know the randomness of this stuff. It amazes me. Uh. And again that's the way nature works. There's not you know, it's just random when you see things or hear things. And U there is another audio. I'll try to give your listeners a wide variety of things, and everybody focuses on the big house. The second one I like for you to play is recording that. It was given to me from another researcher. And uh, I can't give you the location, but as a hiker on Applas and Trail years ago recorded this. This is the North Georgia vocals.

54:39 UH use this as their presentation has a different a lot of different sounds in this one. Jeremiah, Okay, here the whoop. That is wild? So that's you said it's North Georgia.

55:19 Yeah. On apple Atian Trail. He just happened to have a video recorder with him. He recorded that on a video recorder of a night he woke him up. And there they do make in my opinion, again these are all my opinion and experiences. They make more subtle noises than they do the big loud ones. And the perfect example there of a whoop which is kind of like a giving will make you know it's exactly it's a on a spectrograph that look like a backslash. And I've heard that it's hard for people to really make that call the way they can control it. It's very hard to duplicate it. And believe me, I practiced it every red light. You know. I don't know what people think about me in another car, but I like to practice my calls. You know, I think you do have to get them to interact. We'll not interact, but react to noises.

56:10 Sometimes I really know if they're in a location. Although I will tell you a lot of people confuse coyote calls with bigfoot calls. And the area. I'm one of the rare people that's seen both together. They are and maybe symbiotic, in other words, one works off the other one kind of. I don't know. They're not walking around like one got one on a leash or something like that. But you know what I'm talking about, maybe one makes a kill, the other one comes in and robs from the other one. Kind of There's tons of things in nature that are symbiotic, you know, and people don't know that term. That's the little bird that's sitting on the back of the rhino or whatever. You know, he's eating all the bugs off the rideo kind of thing.

56:52 But uh so they'll confuse calls. And I encourage you may wants to get in research. You got to know your sounds. And there are a lot of good sound labs. Uh. You know at Cornell University has a great one has ever known mammal bird sound. Uh But to really you got to eliminate the the obvious things first. But there's not many things that are here that make that whoop sound. I can tell you that for sure, you know. And I don't know if the hell I sent you will play really good. I'm trying to remember what I sent you there, Jeremiah. I recorded it in the Smokey's a backlash fall. Just luckily we're talking about I think as a bobcat. We saw on the third one and our other researchers walking up and then behind us on a ridge where there's nothing this howl comes from.

57:41 All right, we'll see if this is the right one. Here those guys are coming. Yeah, great, Senate. Yeah, it's faint in the background. Probably if they have headphones they can hear it, but probably if they don't have headphones. But it's it's definitely a how Again, we try to vet everything. It's pretty good and send it to multiple people. One of the things you'll notice with the hows the good House is the way they end, you know, and Mok Haley can explain that better because he's an expert in the field, but they will end with the I guess it would be like the ooze sound kind of thing. Are all sound like?

58:23 I have a little cheat sheet here. I can tell you it's like a who would be like mop? And then the other sound that canines can't make is the boots sound, if that makes sense, The double O. Interesting. Yeah, so if you notice at the end of the North Georgia louder sound, you'll hear the awe kind of thing. Canines can't make that sound and all. And then also duration is a big thing because canines usually are very except for wools, you know. Of course there's we have red woods and or clibenter down on the coast, but uh not like the gray woofs you know up north. But they can howl longer and do different sounds. And there is an audio I didn't send you, but it's on YouTube, the Saint Louis County, Minnesota sounds that were recorded by a BFRO investigator. For like, he had an ledr out long duration recorder and it lasts for close to forty minutes. We'll start them off, but again, something comes closer and it makes what's called a zipper call, which is just like a whistle, you know, the whistle thing you use in the band. Yeah, it's this crazy sound.

59:32 I don't know what can make. That, but it sounds like a zipper. Yeah, it's like like that real quick. Oh yeah, yeah, I've heard that. Okay, okay, I've also heard of an actual like big Foot making a zipper well noise as well, and they. Can do that, and they do do that. But keep in mind, I did debunt some years ago because it happened to me and I thought I had one in a loves. What it was is a budfly byble Mins. We'll be back with more Bigfoot Society after these words from our sponsors. Oh interesting, yep, okay.

1:00:17 But they do make a zipper call though, and then you know, the whoop calls are like gibbons, if you know. Again, my daughter she listens to these and she said, Dad, that's gibbing. You know, that's like it's you know, fascinating sounds. But the audio is a good way to document things, and I thoroughly and enjoy doing that, Jeremiah. You know, for my own purposes. My old thing is an investigator, is to document things. I've been working now really hard this spring has been tough since the knee surgery, but to get quality evidence and I'm just really doing that to turn it over to somebody like my daughter in the future. Everybody wants me to work on a book, and I might do that, but my goal is ten to eleven years of documenting things and then I have a probably right now about what i'd call And this first time I really talked about it publicly, about eighty five data points in my area that I consider very credible witness reports, sightings of mine or other people's, or good audio occurrences. And I've tossed a lot that's not in there, but I will tell you they do fit a little bit of a cord kind of thing. One of the things that's fascinating our area is we have a lot of man made lakes. If you know anything about Western Carolina. Fontana's our biggest, which are rut near with Smokey's, but there's way more than that and in Georgia.

1:01:48 So not to let the cat out of the bag a little bit, but those lakes force things to go places, if that makes sense. So I totally get it. Yeah, and I. Hopefully talk more about it, but I want to have in the future just way more documentation and more thought into it than just throwing something out in the Bigfoot world is a very skeptical places, you know, and and the you know, and it's just human nature with people. You know. Most of the reports I get, i'd say seventy five to eighty percent or misidentifications, maybe somebody just wanting to be famous, whatever. But it's like doctor Krantz used to say, Grover Krantz, the famous anthropologist, that it only takes one track to be real, to make it real, you know. So twenty percent of those in my opinion that I've worked on have been real things. And again, I just two weeks ago had a contractor in our area stopped me in ingland. In fact, he was so animated.

1:02:47 I was in a checkout line and he's a family friend of mine. I've known him for fifty something years. And he said, Jeff, I got to tea something. You still do that that stuff? You know, it's funny how that stuff like it's a taboo to say. Yea. But he said he was working by hisself in a real remote area building a retaining wall and got off his back hold and heard a wooden knock sound and he don't really believe in this stuff, and he didn't know what I think it startled him is so loud, and he turned around and looked and rhododendrome and he's seen its head and shoulders and this rote a dinner patch looking at him, and then when he made eye contact, it popped back down and was gone. It freaked him out really bad. I mean, he'd been looking for me for about three or four months to fire me to you know, yeah, you could just tell this guy I'd seen something. It was just he was just animated and he's sixty something years old. You know, yeah again equipment by the lad Jeremiah. I've had some experiences where heavy equipment's been left and they're in the area. I don't know if it's curiosity. You know that happened. You know, was it Bluff Creek, Willow Creek? Oh?

1:03:55 Sure, yeah? Building log roads. But like when we got I think there's one other audio there that's a wood knock I sent you if you want to play that. That's a but there was a motigrader parked there where we parked that night. It's a great example of a wood knock. I think it says why w A y A h, which. Means wolf and cherokee, Okay, here we go. You hear it sounded like a baseball app It stopped us in our tracks. We'd been out all night, didn't have anything happening with my good friend, researcher George Rigley and his son, and I really wanted his son to experience something he had never In fact, we're walking toward just old cabin at four o'clock in the morning. I just wasn't gonna stop again. I get that way. I just won't keep going. And we'd had some I'd found a track there and a bowl hunter had sent me a report real close there he'd seen one bow hunting, and uh so I said, let's go down to the old cabin. I remember out going, Jeff. I'd just rather they'd be a bigfoot here. And this is this is scary.

1:04:58 It's like a ghost could be here. That would knock happen right when we got close, and it stopped us in the track and we kind of messed up and went around this cabin hardly trying to cut it off, and it ended up what I think I could hear it in the lee's crawling. I think it dropped down all fours. But I would call that a sentinel kind of thing, because I think they do that sometimes while the family groups feeding, they'll have one on the lookout kind of and they won't do that until you get really close to something or they get agitated. But there's no there's nothing. I put an LDR there for four months and I only heard one other wooden knock like that. I could hear acres hitting the cabin. I heard all kinds of stuff, but nothing that you know, how that was Chris Jreman. I just sound like a baseball bat hitting the ball.

1:05:45 Yeah, definitely not not an acre. I mean that's that's that was very very distinct. Yeah, and it has force behind it, you know, in a Christmas I don't know how they do that. I do think sometimes it'll do a mouth clack which sounds like a wood not but it's not. But and then it could do a chess slap too. I think Rick Realis tonight we had deciding had heard a chest slap right before I'd walked up to them there. Uh, and that's one of the reasons he had is parabolic hent you know, that type of thing. So, but that's you know, audio is a great thing to do there. Uh and it does uh, documents some unknown sounds that ball just can't explain and uh uh you know, and and it's just kind of fun too, to be honest, to listen those recorders kind of like put you there of a night and you don't have to be there.

1:06:38 Uh. It is you know, one thing jeremi about this stuff research And there are people that want to be researchers, but they like, and I say this, pretend to be researchers, but to do true research or documentation of data and things like that. It is one of the hardest things I've ever done. And I'm retired. This is incredibly hard. I tell people it's like looking for a needle and haystack, but a haystack moves around constantly, you know, and to get you know, something like a Chris woodknock sound, not a tap, not a limb break, and not an acron falling, not a what's it called up your way? The hedge, apple falling? You know them things. You know, they're they're huge, you know when they fall. Yeah. So but again I think what's important to you people getting into this is you need to know the sounds. Now. I keep mind, I grew up raccoon hunting with my dad of a night with a lantern. That was it and night sound.

1:07:36 So from age five to probably fourteen or fifteen, when I got into high school sports and was too busy, I did that all the time. I just loved it. To go with my dad. It was kind of you know, he's kind of like a superhero walk around in dark, you know, but these are places he grew up as a kid, you know. And my grandfather had a and my great grandfather had a hunting well before they were National parks here they let on free range cattle and pigs. Mineral companies own the rights to massive tracts of property, but you could apply and free range you know what you wanted to raise, and they would do that. But they had a remote cabin way back in uh standing in in national not hating national park. And Daddy and his brother was good walk in the supplies when they were just kids and then walk back of the night with lanterns, so he knew this area where I'm talking about having my first sighting about the back of his hands.

1:08:35 So I have a big advantage there. But and then annoying the night sounds, and I still I studied, you know, tonight's pretty night. I might end up riding. We got the Blue Riche Parkway here. I might go up and go to a few overlooks and just sit and listen, you know. And it's just a really neat thing that I enjoyed to do, you know. And I stumbled in on this, and thanks to Matt Pruk, I though that in our case he listens to this, it's his fault. I said. I think it's really cool how you have that that friendship with with Matt prow That's that's very cool, I would say, so, you know, ending ending out our discussion together, and Jeff, thank you for hanging out tonight.

1:09:22 But probably a question you may have gotten before, but thinking of of the sasquatch, what do you think it is that we are are dealing with out there? Have you come to grips with it's probably more this type of thing rather than another thing, or do you have any thoughts about that? Well, that's the loaded question, isn't it. It is? It always pops up. I love it. And by the way, you do a great job. But we've just kind of met this past few months and then yeah, I've listened to some of your podcasts. I really appreciate the way you approach things and even asking that question is a good one. Uh. I will tell you I can't remember who was a Grover Crnch or somebody. You can't answer solve a mystery with another mystery you can. So I tend to be more on the uh, you know, and I'm open minded. I've seen some weird things out in the woods, and you will weird lights and things, like I told you when we were talking on the phone, you know, kind of debut, and I've seen what my mother called mineral lights or spirit lights. These are like the brown mountain lights. I've seen two of those are weird.

1:10:32 But I don't see how people may cool. Let's say, example, they see a weird light in the sky, but then they see a big foot later. What makes you think there are anywhere connected at all? You know you can't do that. You're just you know, you just can't do that. And I'm more. I try to be more. I guess scientific based or just fact based. I want to. But what I saw, particularly the first time and then saw move was very primate, like I should say that now that goes into all kinds of territories. People always say, well, Jeff, you know I'm not an ape, Well you are a primate, and then the religion thing pops up. But I don't jeremia get into. I think one of the problems humans have is we want to try to be God. Does that make sense? And we're not. We're actually what's that?

1:11:23 There's a term anthrow morpheuism anthromorpheism if I'm sent right, which is a Greek term that means that we were taught by the Greeks. They taught that we're over nature, over things, and actually we're just a part of nature, is what it is. And here lately I think a lot of people's got that kind of throat in their face a little bit. We are, we could die out and the world's still going to go around. So what I saw was definitely a living creature. Now I don't know, and it was upright very muscular. It was not an apparate Let me tell you, you'll go through Did I see an apparition? Did I see something time playing itself?

1:12:04 You'll go through all these things in her true sighting. It is amazing. I had a young lady report of sighting. It's not posted on bfr O yet. When I called her, and it's been a year and a half ago, she started crying and she couldn't even talk of work. She had to go outside of her car. She was just it was such an emotional experience for her to see this thing. We'll be back with more Bigfoot Society after these words from our sponsors. And it is it's just a but I do think it's a living, breathing form of a primate. I've heard noises. I've heard them, and I've got documentation of them walking and that was its standing stone in Tennessee where Mary Green did a lot of research. If you know who Mary Green was, it was either that you know, spectrograph gremoia.

1:13:01 You can tell if it's by a pedal by the lines, you know, because of quite a pedal shuffle kind of you know, And this was definitely by a pedal. I'm sitting in pitch dark, its walking and another researcher with Kentucky and Bfr Jack Smart, who's a great guy. He likes to take a Tom Tom and I knew he was going to do that, so I'd snuck off from the group. I really believe to get a perimeter, ay about two hundred yards. Keep mind, these things can hear probably really really good, so they're coming close, but not as close as you think. Until they feel more comfortable. They just want to kind of figure out what's going on. So I'm trying to, you know, get out there and listen. And I heard this and it was definitely it steps over a log. You can hear it taking a longer steph Wow. I was beside myself because if I cut my light on and it's standing in the road. It was up above me on in the les is how I could hear it. I would have just passed out, you know, because there's this thing. But it was either that or a And it's more creepy that it's a person that's walking around in the dog nowhere. I mean, that's kind of weird, but I do think answer your question, it's some form of a primate that I saw. Particularly the movement that I saw run. It looked very ape like, and I get to see gorillas a lot, so I see how they move. It moved more like a chimp would move kind of but fast like that, you know, not lumbering like a gorilla. It got gone, and I think it was a juvenile, and the rock clock we

1:14:31 heard was a warning that it got out open. Because Laurie saw it come down the ridge and stopped, and she was afraid to say anything. I forgot to mention that she just thought she was seeing things. And then when we talked about later, she said, I did see something move. I just thought it was I send things. So I think it was a juvenile that got out in the open a little too much. That's what that rock clock was for. And when I broke the audio down, you can hear a little bit. I think I have four recordings now and you have to really listen to them with headphones. But it's like a nervous tick. You'll hear a whine kind of that, you know, like a dog will do sometimes. Oh wow, yeah. Kind of thing, and you can hear that very faintly.

1:15:14 And another time, when we had a tree pushed over U and I walked up to an area and I could hear something moving. I heard a little bit of a mumble now not talking, but just you know, a noise, and then a whine kind of thing. Now, of course bears can make different sounds too, but they want more of a huffing sound. And then if you're you know, on sightings, if people see an upright bear, to tell you you know, their ears will be on top no clavicles, so when they stand up they look like an as the way that there's no shoulder. There's no shoulders at all in a bear, just don't have glavicals and so and then you'll see ears on top of the head.

1:15:56 That's tell tell things for people, you know, to see. There's lots of times people will see different angles so it looks different, you know, in misidifications is a big thing in this but keep in mind, it only takes one credible thing, like doctor Krantz said, for it to be a real thing. And exactly, and by. The way, just a little shout out for doctor Mildrom. I don't know if you heard yet. It just happen on the cruise and I hope he's doing well. He's I hope he's doing good too. We're kind of all waiting to hear the news about how that is. But yeah, that Standing Stone State Park comes up more often than not on this show. It's weird, man like that area there's there's something going on, because it comes up over and over on my show. It is very interesting.

1:16:44 So yeah, and a lot of it's due to Mary Green's great research. And by the way, Matt knows new Mary. I don't know if you know that. Uh, And he can talk a lot about Mary if you will, you know, I don't know if you'd want to do that, and he's thanks book, but he knows a lot about that, and she did some great research there, spend a lot of time documenting things. And again, if you ever go there, it's a small state park, but there is a lot of there's a national there's a forest around it too, which is totally different. Uh, you know, it's not you know, it's two different places name wise, So it's a bigger area what most people think. And there is water there, lakes and a lot of little tributaries, and it is what I might opinion, a great quarter, a good transitionary where they kind of move through sometimes. You know, again, if these things stay in one cove as big as they are, Jeremiah, you're gonna after a while you're gonna see sight of them. They would just matt everything down.

1:17:46 Read wise, it's just common sense, you know. So they're constantly probably moving and foragings what's going on. But it's a great thing. And I encourage people out there if they've ever been into an expedition or been out. I know you've been out some times, you know. I think I've seen you've been out here recently. It's just a thing to do. Yeah, I bet two times in Iowa. Yeah, oh and Iowa okay, yeah. Yeah, I'm from central Iowa, so that's that's where we we go out. It's fun. It's fun. Yeah. I hope to maybe get here with my son's moved to Wisconsin. Now he's up near at Waukasas Les Paul's from They are working now. He just flew back today, him and his girlfriend. But hopefully I get up here and we'll be up in Ohio working the Susan Fairshawk's uh and Matt Moneymaker the drum thing there.

1:18:39 Uh And and. I got a private thing doing uh Ohio to in Kentucky. And I've been up to Ohio. Spoke at b Mills. I don't know if you've interviewed Bee. But yeah, but Iremi, Yeah. Yeah, she's very good. And her festival, I think the first year was last year and I spoke there. We had twin thousand people at the festival. This year they had forty two thousand people show up. That was Hocking Hills, right, Hocking Hills, yep, two thousand. I think forty one forty two thousand. That's a wild man, you know. They get that from throwing footage. Yeah, and be she does a great job of that. But she has some great audio by the way too, and just some good track finds. But uh, yeah, it's a and like I said, I was wrong about my first trip into this. There's some great people in this I've met some who just off the charts, great people, very knowledgeable, and they do a lot of work in it, and I think lots of times the research gets misinterpreted, and you know, you've got a lot of couch people out there that you know, want to you know, I encourage people to get out and experience things for yourself, like a sunrise or you know, go out and spirits. You know, I start at night, you know, a moonlight night, go out in the woods, and you know, go with credible people, be safe with it.

1:20:01 But it is a great experience. And then if you can get lucky and have something happen, it's really unique, you know. But they are a real living thing. Absolutely know that for a fact. For sure. I agree with you there, Jeff, has been such a fascinating conversation. You're You're one of those guys I feel like I could I chat with forever. But thank you for coming on. Thank you a fun one. It is there a way that you know, Let's say someone was listening to this and they're like, oh man, you mentioned this area, I had something that happened in that area. Is there a way people can contact you or do you kind of just keep under the radar with this.

1:20:42 They can post stuff on the BFRO side all right, but if you're not comfortable that, they can send me an email at a Jeff Carpenter sixteen at yahoo dot com. Cool now check my email there. I prefer not giving out my phone number. I get more of my report sorts, Jeremiah, just by word of mouth. People contact me. You know, Hey, you're the big foot guy kind of thing. Uh. And I'm amazed at how many people, particularly professional people like a policeman. I've had park rangers. They won't talk about things until they're really retired. And oh yeah, I've had some good reports from Uh. I could go on and on about different things, and hopefully in the future we can do another one. I like to talk to you about what I call the orange incident that happened at debate station. It would take a whole episode talking, all right.

1:21:33 Yeah, well, but yeah, they can contact me there. And I do encourage people. I do think a lot of people don't do reports because they feel like they would be labeled crazy, you know kind of thing, or they just won't file it away, or sometimes maybe their memory is a repressed memory. I found in my talk if people will talk about things. It's kind of like a the girl I was talking about, young lady. After a while, she said, Jeff, this has been therapeutic. I've kind of got this off my shoulders. I for so much. They kind of have post traumatic stress disorder. Absolutely, it's it's and of course doctor John Barchek.

1:22:16 If you know doctor John, he's a psychologist. We talk a lot about that. I was at his first expedition and helped him out a lot. He's a great guy, but his specialty is post traumatic stress disorder. So they do after they talk about they feel so much better because it's such a weird thing to them that they saw. Its kind of like if you see Jesus walking down the road, he's just wow. You know, Jesus was a real thing, but he just it's just hard to imagine. It's a little different when you see him on the road. Yeah, well, yo, I'm just saying, or Santa Claus or something, just right, Yeah, exactly, wow, Santa Claus. You know, it's just a but it is a real thing, and I have to emphasize a lot of people. It was very hard for me to come out publicly the library here when we do a presentation, and I thought I'd have thirty people come and I had two hundred and right, two hundred.

1:23:11 And fifty people show up. My goodness, oh this is a year. It's twenty nineteen years ago. I couldn't believe. And I had a lot of Cherokee people coming, had some sightings, and you know, some of them were kind of questionable sightings other people had said, but some of them were very good, and I followed up, and then of course I had a park ranger show up. He wouldn't give you his name, but they had some things and that led to a sighting a couple of years later that a lady had and I was following the area and she got ahold of them on the Blue Ridge Parkway and it was right where these rangers two years before that had said he you need keep an eye on that place where I was some weird stuff happening for a while and mostly noises. And yeah, again, that's probably giving out information when they don't approve me doing that.

1:23:58 Oh yeah, People to understand when I'm kind of and I'm reluctant to talk about locations just because of purity and safety, if that makes sense. Purity for my research because again I'm documenting lot of stuff. I want to make sure I can, you know, not have ten people doing bigfoot calls in an area that I'm trying to, you know, narrow something down. You know, it's kind of hard. Luckily, we don't have many roads in western North Carolina, so that helps a lot. So it's one way in, one way out. Driver. There you go. Thank you again for the office. It's been a pleasure, and you do a great job. And good luck with your podcasts. I love your logo by the way. Oh thanks Yeah, the shout out to Jonathan Dies for doing that for me. But Jeff, thanks so much for coming on.

1:24:44 Sure you have a good night. Please take a minute to help out the show by subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so you don't miss any notifications, and share it the episode on YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us on a podcast, thank you so much, make sure that you're subscribed, share the show with a friend. Really, it's all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've had a bigfoot encounter related to the following, or know someone who has, please reach out to me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com or pass on my email.

1:25:26 Here's the list. If you've had any encounters in Oregon, which I'm sure there's probably a few of you out there, please feel free to reach out immediately. You can use email Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. A special thank you to all the Bigfoot Society, Patreon and YouTube channel members. It's your support that helps keep the show going and I extremely appreciate it. If you want to join in the fun, you can join over at patreon dot com. Forward slash the Bigfoot Society. I'll see you there, and again, thanks for listening.

1:26:48 Her and I can get on here. We can tell our stories. Maybe there's somebody else out there listening. That's too afraid to tell their story. Maybe this will. Give them the courage to come out. And now I feel so bad about it. Who cares what anybody's thinks. I know what I saw, I know what's out there. That's all I care about. Please let people know, Please let them know. If you ever see one of these things, you need you tell, because if you don't, then shame on you, you know, shame on you.