April 9, 2025

Does Bigfoot Use Tools?

Join host Jeremiah Byron with Bigfoot Society as we dive deep into the extensive and captivating experiences of Ray Harwood, editor of Bigfoot Quest Magazine. From childhood memories of strange howls in Lassen National Forest to intriguing stone tool...

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Season 1

Join host Jeremiah Byron with Bigfoot Society as we dive deep into the extensive and captivating experiences of Ray Harwood, editor of Bigfoot Quest Magazine. From childhood memories of strange howls in Lassen National Forest to intriguing stone tool findings, Ray shares his unique journey into the world of Bigfoot. Explore his adventures across Yosemite, the Mojave Desert, Northern Idaho, and Montana, where he uncovers intriguing evidence of Bigfoot's existence, including footprints, mysterious nests, and even hair samples. Ray also delves into fascinating Native American legends and the scientific studies he has conducted over the years. Don't miss this episode for an in-depth look at Ray's remarkable encounters and invaluable contributions to Bigfoot research.

Resources:

Bigfoot Quest Magazine: https://amzn.to/3XBoLWV (Amazon affiliate link)

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WEBVTT

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Welcome to Big for Society. If you have BIGFOD activity

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to report from the same areas discussed in this episode,

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please reach out to me directly after this episode. And

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if you'd like to be on the podcast to discuss

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a personal Bigfoot encounter, please reach out to me directly

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at Big for Society at gmail dot com. Do you

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wish there was more Big for Society to listen to

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Forward slash the Big for Society and now let's get

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on with the show. All right, Big for Society, But

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the privilege of talking to Ray Harwood today. You may

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know him from Bigfoot Quest magazine. He's an individual that

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heads that up. But welcome to the show.

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Ray.

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How's it going man?

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Oh? Really good? Thanks. I appreciate your call and interview.

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Absolutely yeah, I've been looking forward to to chatting with you.

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I know you've gotten many many years in the Bigfoot subject,

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but you know, when I talked to someone that's been

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who's really into it, like yourself. I always like to know,

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you know, what was it that first got you into

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this subject to begin with.

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Okay, my journey into the Bigfoot world was kind of

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in different segments. It started out with probably In Search

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of Bigfoot with if you remember, with Leonard Nimoy, and

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that was that came out in nineteen eighty six, nineteen

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seventy six, and you know, they did some of the

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some of the major Bigfoot findings at the time. And

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then of course movies like Legends, Boggy Creek and things

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like that, you know that most people saw. And then

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when I was a kid, my my father used to

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take us camping quite a bit. And we were camping

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up up in the Last and National Forest, which is

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a volcanic area where there's lava flows and lava tubes

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and Thomas and Obsidian, all these igneous type volcanic type

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flows and stuff. And they have a park there and

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we were camping in there and we heard these ungodly

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howls and I remember my father thinking they maybe mountain

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lions or something like that. And since I've heard mountain

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lions like you know, on video or in recordings and

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even in real life, and it didn't sound anything like

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these these things. Whatever it was had huge lungs almost

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across between some kind of like when you hear an

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elk screen with the whistles, but then you'd hear deep.

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Howls, and it was so loud.

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It was just echoing off these volcanic lava tubes and

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canyons throughout that area.

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And that was the first.

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Time I I had any kind of experience, and at

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the time I didn't know or have any idea. I

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just assumed it was mountain lions until I actually heard them,

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and then I realized it must have been something different.

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And then I had a professor in college, I was

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an archaeology student and forensic anthropology.

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And one of my.

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Professors was a what they call a lithics specialist or

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stone tool specialist that had studied in France under another

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lithic specialist, one of the pioneers of that science named

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Francois Boards. So Clay Singer came back in the sixties

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from that experience, and his expertise was in paleolithics, and

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which is the Old Stone Age, mesolithics which is the

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Middle Stone Age, and then of course the neolithics, which

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is the New Stone Age, and I got sort of

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put under his wing and learned about stone tools and

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things like that, and that was my specialty within a

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subcategory of archaeology in any case, One day he had

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his nineteen sixty seven Volkswagen bug and he drove myself

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and himself out to the Mojave Desert to a place

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called Urimo, where they have a place called the Calico

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Early Man Site or Calico Ghost Town, and there's an

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archaeological site there that people growing up in the nineteen

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sixties would know of Richard Leaky and Lewis Leaky. They

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always had PBS specials about digging up artifacts and ancient

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skeletal remains.

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In the Oldovai Gorge in Africa and things like that.

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So this Calico site had stone tools that allegedly predated

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human occupation in.

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The New World.

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And in the nineteen sixties and seventies, the main course

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of archaeology in America was finding what they call pre

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Clovis artifacts, which was the Clovis migration was twelve thousand

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years ago across the Bearing Straits, and they the predominant

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thought at the time is that there was no pre

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Clovis individuals in the United States or what was you know,

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the American continent, which would include South America and you

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up through Canada to Alaska. And so there was what

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they called the bird soul hypothesis where Clovis man came

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across the bearing Land Land Bridge and came down the

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west coast of Alaska and Canada into the New World.

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And that's the that was the predominant theory about how

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the Native Americans came in.

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And so in that respect, the Calico site pre dated

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twelve thousand years or pre Clovis by like almost two

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hundred thousand years, which didn't make sense and fit into

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the archaeological paradigm. So it was my conception at the

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time that it was pre Homo sapien in the United States,

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in the America, but it wasn't humans. It was it

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was like a relict hormonoid or something of that sort.

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And I was thinking, after seeing the Patterson Ginlin film

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and the in search of that perhaps what these bigfoot

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or a sasquatch may have been the ones that were

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working stone into these paleolithic hand axes at the Calico site.

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And if you google Calico Early Man site, you look

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at the stone tools you'll see they're obviously you know, crafted.

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They detached flakes of this flint into a hand act

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shaped forms. And at the time it was at the

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shore of the Mannix Lake in that area.

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It wasn't the Mojave Desert back then.

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It was you know, a lake with you know, everything

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that goes along with that environment. So after that, I

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didn't think much of it until I was taking a

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vacation at the Yosemite National Park and on the way in,

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we stopped at a place called View Lodge, which is

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in the canyon leading up into one of the entries

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into the park, and we were taking a hike and

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I crossed a little stream bed that was predominant it

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was mostly dry, and then we were climbing up some

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boulders where we found what they call bedrock mortars and

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what those are there a mortar and pestle that the

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Native Americans used to grind their acre and sage seeds

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and whatnot. And they're deep cylindrical holes in the massive

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boulders or even in the bedrock which is granite, and

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then used a pestle, an elongated piece of granite that's

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shaped in the cylindrical form with round edges ends that

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they would pulverize and grind these food stuffs.

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Well, one of these holes.

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Over time, the holes filled with pine needles and rotten

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leaves and dirt, and then water gets in them and

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there you can still see them, but they're covered up.

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Well, one of these holes had.

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Been dug out and the pestils put into the mortar,

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and something had been grinding something in there. And at

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first I assumed it was someone showing someone how they

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worked and things like that, whom I have been hiking

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in the area.

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But it was off trail. It was just busting brush.

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And after seeing that, we went back towards our vehicle,

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and when we passed the dry creek bed again in

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the sand, I saw the classic bigfoot footprints in the sand,

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and of course from the television programs and whatnot, Oh

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my gosh, this this really does exist. To quote Bob Gimlin,

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I looked, and here's these big footprints. And the strange

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thing about them. At the time, it looked to me

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like whatever it was, the sasquatch had been running down

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the creek and then it's and where the footprints stopped

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was a mass of vegetation like a briar, and there

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was I could not get through it. But you know,

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it's just like deer and elk and moose and things.

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They can hit a briar like that and move through

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without any problem, where a human we'll get.

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All ripped up, hesitate and not be able to go through.

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But whatever this, I think a bigfoot could not have

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gotten through. I mean would have just gone through like

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a deer or an elk, but a human could not

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have done it. But the feet were bare feet and

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they were large. But I had no idea at the time.

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I hadn't researched it. I had no idea what the

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mid tarsel break was, or the wide heels, or the

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you know, the different types of toes. I didn't know

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any of that sort of thing. I just knew these

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were large footprints and they had no nails like a

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human footprint, and it wasn't in an area where humans

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would be, you know, barefoot swimming or anything like that anyway,

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So that was interesting. So I went back later and

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tried to cast it. But I didn't use plaster. I

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used to cement. So I filled the things and when

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they dried, I pulled them out and they just pretty

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much broke apart, so I didn't really have any castings,

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but I did, you know, have a videotape of the

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whole thing. And the interesting part about these footprints is

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at one point I followed the footprints backwards away from

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the brier, and I found one area where there was

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defecation all around this area beneath a boulder, and in

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one spot you could see two footprints and then scat

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right underneath it, like the thing was squatting right there

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and left imprints of the feet and the scat. So

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and I haven't heard anyone finding that. And the weird

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thing about the scat was it was filled with berry seeds,

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like you know, almost like you know, the big berry

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seeds you see like from huckleberries or that sort of thing.

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And then let's see, I didn't really think much about

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it after that. I thought it was interesting, and I

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was talking to a or stranger at the time and

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he said, well, maybe you saw a bear. And my

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answer was, well, maybe people that see bear are really

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saying a sasquatch and they're mistaking it for a bear.

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But that's how that went.

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And then later when I was in college at the

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Archaeological Research Center. One of the professors invited me up

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to the Piute Reservation. Is at the time, I was

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doing a lot of replicative systems analysis or replicating stone

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tools that's in the in the in the verbiage would

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be flint napping, taking a flint and the silica material

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like obsidian and experimenting with the reduction into usable pieces

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and then into arrowheads of project all points or stone

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axes and whatnot. So they brought me up to the

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Pilot Reservations to reintroduce that technology to the Native Americans

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that lived along a id and flow to as a

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cultural like a reculturization type of thing.

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So I went up there and I did that.

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One thing I noticed is on one of the trips,

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they brought me up to an area where they did

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their traditional collecting of pinion nuts. And so we went

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up and there was wikiips where that are similar to

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the sasquatch structures, and they would stay in those during

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this collection of the pinion nuts.

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And you could.

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See where old wikiips had rotted away. So they've been

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doing this for generations. And one of the things they

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would do is take this this pine bough and make

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a whip and they would whip the trees to get

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the opinion pine cones to fall, and at the same

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time the nuts would fly out of the cones. Quite

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a bit of land on these tarps aung with some

218
00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:05.559
large pine pine grubs known as pohogi, and the kids

219
00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:09.679
would eat those. And then later I found that I

220
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:16.879
was finding these similar whips away from their traditional collecting areas,

221
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:23.039
and I attributed that to Sasquatch, and I was thinking

222
00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:25.720
that they were they were doing the same sort of thing,

223
00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:28.679
and also they use it to knock down birds and

224
00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:32.559
nests to get eggs and baby birds or whatever, and

225
00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:36.480
squirrels for for food stuffs. And then I don't remember

226
00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:42.399
anything else in that California area except for petroglyphs that

227
00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:44.399
you know showed sausquatch.

228
00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:46.879
Are you talking about the Tuley River petroglyphs.

229
00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:52.120
The Tuley River petroglyphs were, as the crow flies, very

230
00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:56.440
close to where I was there in Yosemite. So and

231
00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.279
that was the Yeah, the Tuley River was okay.

232
00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:02.279
Where there are other ones that you knew of that

233
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:05.559
also had the same artwork in them.

234
00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:09.399
Similar I've seen petroglyphs that have just the large feet

235
00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:12.679
that are obviously, you know, they're not human looking feet.

236
00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.919
And I've seen, you know, the ones that look you

237
00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.799
don't really know if they're aliens or humans or that

238
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:23.960
kind of petroglyphs, And yeah, that's true. And then that's

239
00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:27.840
that's all I can remember. Back then, I didn't really

240
00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:30.799
have any other experiences. But then so then there was

241
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:36.320
a long break where I had no real experiences like that,

242
00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:41.000
and then about twelve years ago I moved to northern

243
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:46.720
Idaho and the Idaho Panhandle, and right away I noticed

244
00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:51.879
something that was interesting. I went to the area where

245
00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:56.120
the coconey salmon die off at Lake Cortlaine, and you

246
00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:59.679
go up there because the bald eagles come in and

247
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:04.840
eat those dying coconut salmon, and then they the salmon

248
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:09.159
after they spawn naturally die off, but before they die

249
00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:12.320
there's still you know, fresh and edible, edible, so the

250
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:15.960
the bald eagles come and swoop down and knock them.

251
00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.679
On the head and when they get.

252
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.600
Slow enough the fish that is, then the salmon's then

253
00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:24.759
the eagles pick off the salmon and eat them. But

254
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.200
there's still so many of them that the the pea

255
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:32.200
rock beaches on the edge of the lake are covered

256
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:38.720
with probably four inches of fish, probably six foot wide,

257
00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.320
and then they float off into the end of.

258
00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:43.600
The lake during this die off.

259
00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:48.679
And while I was looking at that, I found a footprint,

260
00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:52.840
So I thought that was interesting. So along I went

261
00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:56.799
up the hill from the from the beach there, and

262
00:16:56.919 --> 00:17:00.159
I noticed that there was what they call in the

263
00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:06.039
Olympic Project, they had what they thought were nests. And

264
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:10.200
I found something similar just above the salmon die off

265
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:13.160
there at the Lake Corlane one year. So that was

266
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:17.480
a footprint, along with of course a natural food seasonal

267
00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:21.960
food gathering area, and then what looked to me like

268
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.039
the same type of nests they had in the Olympic Project,

269
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:28.599
and then the same same.

270
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:29.480
Sort of scenario.

271
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.799
I was a huckleberry picking on the Ico would be

272
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:38.960
the east side of the Idaho Panhandle, where I came

273
00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:42.720
upon what looked like a footprint in the dust. It's

274
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.599
kind of an interesting type of substrate here they have

275
00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:50.839
where the ground is very hard but when Mount Saint

276
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:55.880
Helen's went off years back, all the ash came down

277
00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:00.839
and created like a almost like a fine sol or,

278
00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:03.960
like an ash soil that still sits on top of

279
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:04.920
these hard pants.

280
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:07.799
And so when you get a footprint.

281
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.240
You can see the footprint, but you could never cast

282
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.119
it because it's it's just in the dust. So I

283
00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.319
was huckleberry picking and I saw one of these footprints

284
00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:20.599
again a seasonal food stuff that would be good for

285
00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:23.640
you know, bear, saucequatch, humans.

286
00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:23.920
And that sort of thing.

287
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.880
So anyway, I poked my head up after seeing the print,

288
00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.400
and there was an old man there and we both

289
00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:34.880
thought each other was an animal, and both kind of

290
00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:38.079
jumped up. It startled, and I said, boy, did you

291
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:41.400
see the size of these bear prints? And he says, ah, yeah,

292
00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:42.400
you think they're bear?

293
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.279
Huh? And I says, you know, I didn't want to.

294
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:47.960
I didn't want to get into a conversation because if

295
00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:51.200
someone you know isn't in the bigfoot community, you get

296
00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:53.640
kind of some strange looks if you think, oh it's

297
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.039
you know, it's a saucequatch.

298
00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:56.359
But he knew.

299
00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:02.279
And then in the same area I was camping, and

300
00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:04.519
it was early in the morning. I was I had

301
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.359
a campfire going, and I was making some of the

302
00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.720
instant pancakes and whatnot on my cole Mi stove, and

303
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:14.599
like a Chevy, you know, a modified Chevy pickup truck

304
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:16.160
with the big tires pulls up.

305
00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:17.920
And a younger guy.

306
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.160
Of course, at my age, everyone's younger, but a guy

307
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.720
into probably his thirties pulled up. And he came up

308
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:26.400
and he wanted to chat for a while, and I

309
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:28.200
was talking with him, and he said that he had

310
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:32.279
been camping up a little bit higher up, which would

311
00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:35.640
be northeast of where I was camping. And he said

312
00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:41.880
that he during the night they heard those bellowing howls

313
00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:45.839
and you know, all sorts of what you know, like

314
00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:51.279
the Ron Moorhead Sierra sounds type vocalisms and things really

315
00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:55.559
loud and crashing together rocks and clanking rocks, and a

316
00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:58.880
lot of things attributed to what you know, what the

317
00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:03.759
Bigfoot community attributes to sasquatch. So he said, you know,

318
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.200
they were all really nervous and things like that.

319
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:07.839
So he said he woke up.

320
00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:10.920
In the morning and of the original five people in

321
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.000
the camp, he was the only one left. So they

322
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:16.279
all got scared and left in the night. So first

323
00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:18.440
thing in the morning he came down the hill and

324
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:20.359
that was the first one he saw. So he pulled

325
00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:23.759
into my camp and was He started out by saying,

326
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:27.279
you know, how do you feel about sasquatch. And I

327
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:30.240
had an old leyandrover with sasquatch stickers all over, so

328
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.680
I think he pretty much knew. But so he told

329
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.720
me the story about the yelling and him been the

330
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:42.119
last one left. But he also added that the year before,

331
00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:45.759
during deer season, he had gone up a trail to

332
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:50.359
his hunting hunting blind, and while he was headed for

333
00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.039
his tree, it was a tree stand, and he said,

334
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:55.680
on the way to the tree stand, he saw in

335
00:20:55.759 --> 00:21:01.400
the dust these what looked like bigfoot tracks. So he's

336
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:03.519
he said, he took note of it, and he says

337
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:05.720
when he was in a hurry to get to his

338
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:08.279
tree stand, he says, tonight, when I come out of here,

339
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:12.599
I'm gonna, you know, get photographs and and put down

340
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.720
something to get size, you know, some kind of measurement,

341
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:18.880
he says. Then he finished hunting, he went back down.

342
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:21.279
He left a little early because he was excited about

343
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:24.160
the tracks, and he said when he got there, the

344
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.359
tracks were gone, but it looked like what he described

345
00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:30.599
as maybe a big hairy arm just went and wiped

346
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:35.559
the tracks away, which I thought was really interesting. And

347
00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.359
in that same area, I think it was a year

348
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:41.720
after that I was hunting with someone from Warwick the

349
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:46.119
deer season and we're coming up just about the same

350
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:51.039
area as the huckleberries. When I was I was hit

351
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:55.359
by an enormous mushroom or toadstool, one of those things

352
00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:59.920
type of thing, right right in the neck. So, you know,

353
00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:02.079
I just the guy, the guy I was hunting with,

354
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:04.039
was in front of me, so I know he didn't

355
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.160
throw it, so it came down from from somewhere up above.

356
00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:12.359
But you know, a mushroom isn't something that can fall

357
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.720
out of a tree. A mushroom has to be you know,

358
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:19.079
pulled out of the ground and actually thrown. And there

359
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:21.799
there wasn't any other cars or any sort of thing

360
00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:25.359
in the area, so that was kind of a strange thing.

361
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:31.000
And then in that area that same hunting season, we

362
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:33.440
went up. We went up really early and it was

363
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:37.279
still dark and it was it was really cold.

364
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:39.359
And we were on a quad.

365
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:43.720
We took the quad up this dirt road until we

366
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:48.240
found like a subsidiary or secondary trail that went upward

367
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.160
and to the west, so we went up that quite

368
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.839
a way and then we sat and waited. We were

369
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:00.240
sitting there against a tree, waiting for the sun to rise, and.

370
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:02.400
When the sun rose, that was a good spot.

371
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:04.200
Because you had a it was almost like a theater

372
00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:06.559
where you could see the hole, this whole heelside that

373
00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:09.279
had game trails on it and whatnot. So we were

374
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:11.960
waiting for the sun to ride to see that, and

375
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:16.319
while it was still dark, we saw another quad coming

376
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:20.839
up that small trail, and when it got close, a

377
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:24.920
lady got off with a flashlight and came up and

378
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:28.240
said she was a game warden and that we were

379
00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:32.279
to leave the area because they'd seen a grizzly bear,

380
00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.440
which she described, you know, this emidst grizzly bear, and

381
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:39.640
she said it was a collar grizzly bear, which means

382
00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:42.319
it has a tracking device where it. You know, got

383
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:47.559
out of Yellowstone Park and meandered up into North Idaho anyway,

384
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:50.240
so we decided to get out of there. We both

385
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:54.880
had only bolt action rifles, so it wouldn't do much

386
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:59.599
good against a charging grizzly bear in the dark. So

387
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:02.480
we hid down the hill and we got to about

388
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:05.119
halfway to the quad, and there was another quad there

389
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:09.440
and this guy was another government type guy, and he

390
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:14.079
had camouflage on and he had a fifty caliber type

391
00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:19.599
sniper rifle, which was really huge for someone that you

392
00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:23.799
know in the game warden anyway, he was pretty much

393
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.160
like the ex military or military type guy, so that

394
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:27.920
was strange.

395
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:29.200
So we walked kept walking.

396
00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:30.680
We got to the quad and there was two other

397
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:33.559
hunters down there at the time, a man and his son,

398
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:36.440
and he said to us, he says, so, did you

399
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:38.960
guys get told to leave because of the grizzly bear?

400
00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:42.279
And we said yes, and he said he laughed and said,

401
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:44.920
you really think it was a grizzly bear? And you know,

402
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.920
we didn't think of anything of it. Yeah, that's why

403
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.920
we left so fast. And he said, man, I got

404
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.039
I was so close. I could smell the thing. It

405
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:57.559
stunk so bad. Of course, I think probably grizzly bears

406
00:24:57.559 --> 00:24:59.640
don't smell too good either, I mean, with all that

407
00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:01.160
rodney flesh and their teeth and.

408
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.039
Whatnot, and they don't wipe their butts. But I didn't

409
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:04.759
think of it at the time.

410
00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:07.319
But his questioning line is that he thought it was

411
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:11.319
a sasquatch, And I think that it could be one

412
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:14.200
of those things where the government launch there is one

413
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:15.880
there and they don't want you to know about it

414
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.440
or shoot it or something like that.

415
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.599
So that was a really strange occurrence.

416
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:25.240
And then see after that, hadn't seen anything for quite

417
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:30.720
a while, and that's when I started riding horses in Montana.

418
00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:35.440
And so I was riding horses in Montana and they

419
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:39.599
came across some boulders that had been pulled from the

420
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:43.000
ground and I'm talking three to five hundred pound boulders

421
00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:47.319
pulled from the ground and used to pulverize these logs.

422
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:51.440
And I've seen that about three times there where the

423
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:53.960
boulders were pulled out of the ground, you can still

424
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.759
see their roots growing around the orifice where they pulled

425
00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.759
out the boulder deep holes and then taking.

426
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.279
These boulders and just smashed the pieces.

427
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:06.880
Out of out of out of these logs and pulverizing

428
00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:11.279
them to get either to the inner bark or because

429
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.000
they were having a anger fit or something like that.

430
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:16.680
The other thing I saw on.

431
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:21.839
Horseback was hollow logs that had been split and then

432
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.839
pride open with these long poles, like the tips of

433
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.960
lodge pole pines were taken off and stripped of sticks

434
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:32.480
and bark, taking.

435
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.160
These lodge pole pine boughs.

436
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:39.839
And pride open these hollow logs and I saw that

437
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:43.519
twice and it was it looked like a group effort

438
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:47.759
because there was like three poles on each side and

439
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:52.039
then the logs just you know, pulled apart. And I

440
00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:53.880
don't know if there was maybe a raccoon or a

441
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:57.720
skunk inside that they were trying to get added, but

442
00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:00.839
you could tell that there was a group for splitting

443
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:04.119
these logs, and it was We're on horseback off trail,

444
00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:09.200
so not likely anyone would be messing around with that.

445
00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:13.960
So I attributed it to sasquatch because there's no animals

446
00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:17.200
that do that. And the other thing is I found

447
00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:20.240
the same This was a long period of time. We

448
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:23.920
rode quite a few times up near the Bob Marshall

449
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:28.160
Wilderness and the Flathead Lake in that area, and there's

450
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:31.359
a no man's land out there, and we would ride

451
00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:34.720
along there and find these things. I found on the

452
00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:39.559
border between North Idaho and Montana. I found ant hills.

453
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:41.640
They have big.

454
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:47.440
Mounds, ant mounds, and I found ant mounds with completely

455
00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:52.519
straight like arrow shaft reads stuck in the ant whole

456
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:58.200
main orifice where it's like. In nineteen sixty, Jane Goodall

457
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:03.400
discovered chimp andsies making and using these rods to catch

458
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:08.880
ants and termites, so stone tool use among apes. She

459
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:12.119
discovered that, and I found the same thing out in

460
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:16.759
North Idaho and North Montana, which was interesting. And all

461
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:19.680
these things I'm telling you I documented on films. I have,

462
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:22.880
you know, photographs of all these things. And then of

463
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:26.480
course I found on that same in that same area,

464
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:31.119
I found a club that looked like had been used

465
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:35.960
to club animals, maybe a tree knocking, but it was

466
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:37.400
obviously modified.

467
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.119
And then let's see, I've seen trail glyphs in the

468
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:42.119
in the areas.

469
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:45.400
And I don't know how how how your listeners feel

470
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.440
about the glyphs, but I found some pretty amazing, uh

471
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:54.039
looking glyphs. And I was speaking to uh Marie Dumont

472
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:57.880
in Florida, who sent me photos of the glyphs they

473
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:02.920
find out in that in that area, and they're equally

474
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:05.799
or more advanced than the ones we find here.

475
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:09.880
And usually there are three three sticks in a row.

476
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:13.680
And then there's one glyph that I see quite often,

477
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:17.920
which is like a capital letter A, and shoot, there's

478
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:20.720
others on rock stacking and things like that. I found

479
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:25.599
all those tree breaks like everyone's talking about. And then

480
00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:29.839
I've also found frozen lakes that it looks like boulders

481
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:32.279
have been thrown across the lake. And I've been told

482
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:36.160
that the reason this is is the sasquatch wants to

483
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:39.359
cross the lake and he's testing it for strength, to

484
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:41.039
see if he can hold up his weight, so he

485
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:45.000
throw these boulders across these frozen lakes. And if you

486
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.440
live where it's where it freezes and you try to

487
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:51.799
remove a rock from a frozen ground, moving a boulder

488
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:56.119
from a frozen ground is impossible for ninety nine percent

489
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:01.440
of humans. But in any case, that's sort of the

490
00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:05.720
background I've seen. I've found structures and in Montana, when

491
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:11.079
you ride along the Flathead Lake in the winter, the

492
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:14.119
lake is so low that there's about a mile of

493
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:19.519
mudflat around certain parts of the lake lake mudflats, and

494
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:24.720
in this mud I've seen structures which are mostly big

495
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:30.079
logs with smaller driftwood type logs creating like the structure

496
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.400
or the you know, whatever they use them for if

497
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:38.559
they're a hunting blind, or to obscure themselves or to

498
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:41.720
mark territory what. I've heard a lot of different stories

499
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:45.319
about these, but in any case, out in those mudflats,

500
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:49.359
you can see footprints, you can see structures, that sort

501
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:49.720
of thing.

502
00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:52.279
And let's see.

503
00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:57.200
In any case, that's sort of like my background and

504
00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.640
my actual encounters.

505
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.240
I've had all three, you.

506
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:09.799
Know, of the BFRO type classification of of encounters. Class

507
00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:13.319
A would be a visual, Class B would be you know,

508
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:20.160
footprints and vocalizations, tree branches, structures and that sort of thing,

509
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:23.279
and then class C would be someone else telling you

510
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:26.839
about these things that you you know, that's a good source.

511
00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:31.680
So yeah, anyway, and when I see when I do

512
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:35.119
document these things, I do check the websites to find

513
00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:38.160
out if there's been encounters and whatnot, just to bolster

514
00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:41.279
the account to see if I'm on the right track.

515
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:44.720
But the so what what I the first one I

516
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:48.920
saw this isn't a visual, but this is the auditory.

517
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:50.519
And what happened.

518
00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:53.400
I was, I was deer hunting, and this is in

519
00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:57.039
North Idaho, and I was up on a cliff and

520
00:31:57.079 --> 00:32:02.119
I saw like this valley of dried bones. I could

521
00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:06.920
see skeletons down there, down this really steep embankment. So anyway,

522
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:10.720
I decided to check it out, and beneath one tree

523
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:14.319
there was you know, a bone scatter, and I could

524
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:17.480
tell by looking. One one was a horse because it

525
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:20.319
still had some of its hair on it, And in

526
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:25.519
that same area was an elk and a deer. And

527
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:27.839
then when I started going down deeper in the canyon,

528
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:30.480
I found this place where.

529
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:33.839
Something had picked up these massive logs.

530
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:38.880
Something that I couldn't even budge, and smashed.

531
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:41.119
Animals to death with this log.

532
00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:46.359
And the animals, now in a skeletal form, were pinned

533
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:51.079
underneath these logs, and in some cases it's a macabre

534
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:55.000
looking like they were, you know, trying to escape and

535
00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:58.920
they were eating. And this was very strange. So I

536
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:02.880
got my camera out and I took some photos. I

537
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:07.279
do have photo these photos of these macabre sites. And

538
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:10.279
the strange thing is about when I was taking pictures

539
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.599
of this one elk that have been pinned in by

540
00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:17.000
this big log, and these aren't like sections of logs,

541
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:20.680
these are you know, full trees that are down. So

542
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.759
in any case, I was taking pictures and I heard

543
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:29.480
what people described as the bipedal crunch.

544
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:33.119
Sound in the woods, like foot and foot and foot.

545
00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:38.160
Real heavy, not trying to hide it's it's not trying

546
00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:41.960
to be stealth with it. Sound crunches through the woods

547
00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:46.359
coming at me. From an adjacment. I was like on

548
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:49.680
a plateau, on this real steep embankment, and there was

549
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:53.960
like three like you would say arroyos or like mini

550
00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:58.240
canyons that were coming in from dry creeks that met

551
00:33:58.559 --> 00:33:59.000
like in a.

552
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:03.160
Confluence, right just below where I was. And in one of.

553
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:08.400
These little canyons, something was coming down from up above

554
00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:12.159
down this canyon towards me. And I think it's what

555
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:18.559
Robert Leiderman experienced something similar in his Bluff Creek Project book,

556
00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:22.800
where he was being like shadowed, and it was the

557
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:24.239
same sort of experience.

558
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:26.920
I could hear it and then when I.

559
00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:30.599
Stopped to listen, it would stop, and then I'd start,

560
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:32.599
you know, walking around and stuff, and I could hear

561
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:33.400
it start again.

562
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:35.920
So I thought to myself, Okay.

563
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:39.920
Something's going to come out from this canyon, and it's

564
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:42.079
going to be right in front of me. So I

565
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:45.800
had to make a choice, get my rifle or get

566
00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:51.760
my camera or run. Well, I looked at I chose

567
00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:55.639
what was behind box number three. So and I think

568
00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:58.320
that's the problem with a lot of big foot encounters

569
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:01.920
is people don't we want to see what's coming out

570
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:02.840
of that other canyon.

571
00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:04.880
Robert Liederman in.

572
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:08.719
His book The Bluff Bluff Creek Project, made the same

573
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:12.800
decision as I did. He was faced where, Okay, whatever's

574
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:15.199
whatever's making this noise is going to come out on

575
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.920
the trail right in front of me. So he chose

576
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:21.119
to get out of there, and I made the same choice.

577
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.119
The problem is getting up the steep canyon was a

578
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:26.599
lot harder than going down.

579
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:28.840
So I had my camera.

580
00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:32.079
This was like a you know, regular heavy camera around

581
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:35.519
my neck, and then I had my rifle. And then

582
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:38.239
I started going up, and I had a pistol on

583
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:41.000
my hip, so it kept pulling my pants down because

584
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.079
it was like so heavy.

585
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.440
So I'm like completely not in.

586
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:48.639
My element going up this hill, and I kept falling

587
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:53.079
onto my hands, but the pine needles were just like

588
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.679
sticking in my hands. I was going so fast, and

589
00:35:56.679 --> 00:36:00.480
then I'd hit you know, you know, cobbles and and

590
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:04.639
you know, rocks and whatnot. And then I finally got

591
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.320
up to a plateau where I felt fairly safe, and

592
00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.440
I just stood there and watched and whatever it did,

593
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:13.760
whatever it was, if it did come out, it was

594
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:15.920
I couldn't see it from where.

595
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:19.519
I was, but you know, that was really scary. But

596
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:20.559
it was really heavy.

597
00:36:20.599 --> 00:36:23.400
And I've heard moose coming through the woods and actually

598
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:26.679
had you know, moose come right out in.

599
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.519
Front of me. And this didn't sound like a moose.

600
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.320
A moose sounds just like a horse. You know.

601
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.639
They do the same type of winnies and the snorts,

602
00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:38.679
and you know, they crush right through. They just go

603
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:41.599
right through, you know whatever, and make the same sort

604
00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:47.119
of crushing noise. But quadrupeds and bipeds do sound really different.

605
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:48.639
Because I used to wonder, well, how do they know

606
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:49.400
it was a biped?

607
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:53.199
But when you hear the difference between a quadruped moving

608
00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:56.920
through the forest and a biped moving through the point forest,

609
00:36:56.960 --> 00:36:58.559
that does make a big difference.

610
00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:02.039
So that was one of the stranger things.

611
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:07.440
So then the other occurrence would be Okay, this would.

612
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:11.039
Be back in Montana. It was snowing and there was

613
00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:11.719
a blizzard.

614
00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:17.159
So for some reason, the people I were with decided

615
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.639
they wanted to go to this fish chery above and

616
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:24.320
across I can't remember the name of the valley, but anyway,

617
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:28.079
it was sort of off where Flathead River flows.

618
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:29.840
So we went and we.

619
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:33.840
Saw the fish archery and on the way out we saw,

620
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.239
you know, one of the we hiked around a little

621
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:40.119
bit because we had snow shoes, and we found a

622
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:42.800
one of the structures, and it was a little bit

623
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:46.239
different than anything we'd seen there in Montana because the

624
00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:49.880
ones in Montana that I saw whereas a structure built

625
00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:55.800
around using a tree as the center, tent post type

626
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:58.320
of thing, you know, branches set up against a tree,

627
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:00.920
and then when you go inside, the tree is in

628
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.360
the middle. Or the other kind is there's a big

629
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:09.039
log laying down and they lay logs across that and

630
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:11.000
make like a you know, like an a frame.

631
00:38:11.719 --> 00:38:13.119
This one was free standing.

632
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:17.000
Like the ones, they look like a Native American wiki

633
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:19.159
up that kind of structure.

634
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:23.079
So anyway, they the people I was with, were not

635
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:25.360
They didn't believe in Bigfoot, and they thought it was

636
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:29.519
kind of funny that I did. But anyway, so they

637
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:31.800
I took pictures. They made fun of me, and then we.

638
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:34.960
Started back and the storm got worse, and it was

639
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:39.320
really We're on this road that was really a rural route,

640
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:43.440
but it was paved, you know, asphalt. So we're coming

641
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:47.199
down this road and we're in a huge blizzard and

642
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:49.800
they and the darn We're in a pickup truck, which

643
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:51.920
is rear wheel drive, and we were kind of sliding

644
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:55.199
around and the driver was going, you know, pretty fast,

645
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:59.679
and we're going through this blizzard and we just wanted

646
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:03.440
to get out of that area because the storm was

647
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:06.800
getting worse. The ice, the black ice on the road

648
00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:12.159
was getting almost non non navigable. So then I just

649
00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:17.199
happened to look to my left and they have saw

650
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:21.440
grass there and the saw grass, and it's you know,

651
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:28.159
it's blowing snow almost you know, vertically, and so I'm

652
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:31.760
looking in the saw grass because that's just where the

653
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:33.159
car was going around to turn.

654
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:34.400
I could see the saw grass.

655
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:39.400
In the saw grass, I could see what looked like

656
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:43.599
except for its hair was long, and it looked like

657
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:45.760
it was on like.

658
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:48.719
Leaning on its let's see, it would be leaning on

659
00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:52.119
its left arm. Let me think, no, no, we're going

660
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.239
we're going east.

661
00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:57.719
So it was leaning on its right arm, and it

662
00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:01.480
looked like it was holding like a like an infant

663
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:06.480
in its left arm, looking over the sawgrass to see

664
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:10.639
what was coming up the canyon. But we had already

665
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:14.199
passed where she was looking. So it sounded like, I

666
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:18.360
think from where there was, our car was like echoing backwards.

667
00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:21.280
So they looked where it sounded like it was coming from.

668
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:25.960
But we were right alongside and I saw it briefly,

669
00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:31.239
and then as we kept going, I saw what looked

670
00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:34.800
like one standing up. Actually I wouldn't even say what

671
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:38.280
looked like. I saw one standing up in the back,

672
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:42.480
like just in the back, kind of looking between the

673
00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:44.159
tree line and the sawgrass.

674
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:46.599
It's kind of blending into the trees a bit.

675
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:51.719
But after I saw it, I just was kind of

676
00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:55.719
feeling like, Okay, I was trying to convince myself it

677
00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:57.800
was something else, but I can't think of what else

678
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.239
it would be, you know, have a snout like a bear,

679
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:04.480
and then you know, I go back to my reflection

680
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:08.320
of Yosemite. It's like, Okay, did when people see a

681
00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:11.039
bear did they accident? Did they see a saucequatch and

682
00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:13.280
think it was a bear? Or did I see a

683
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:16.199
bear think it was a saucequatch or you know that

684
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:19.159
sort of thing. But this was a pretty clear view

685
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:23.840
other than it was in a blizzard. But it was shoot, man,

686
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:26.480
I never even thought about you know, distances or anything,

687
00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:30.559
but probably thirty yards not too far, like thirty yards

688
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:34.320
where I saw this reclining one, And I think, what

689
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:38.000
happened is it was down in the sawgrass and when

690
00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:40.519
it heard the car, it kind of just sat up

691
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:45.440
onto its pivoting on its right arm. It just took

692
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.280
a look to see what the noise was because there

693
00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:51.119
wasn't all there was no traffic on that on that road,

694
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:53.239
not in that you know, it was like minus three

695
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:54.800
and there's a blizzard.

696
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:57.599
And anyway, so that was that.

697
00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:01.000
It took me a year on a horse and then

698
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:03.800
I see one. You know, like they say they usually

699
00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:07.079
see him crossing the road, but you know that the

700
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:11.880
one sighting that I saw that I was really pretty

701
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:16.360
convinced of was that one. And you know, I, you know,

702
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:20.000
spent all this money for horses and whatnot and just

703
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:24.519
you know, possible clues. And then here I'm I see

704
00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:27.840
one by accident away from the fish Satchery. And then

705
00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:32.360
that was about that from Montana. And then I started

706
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:37.079
riding the horse up more up in North Idaho near

707
00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:42.239
the Selkirk Range. Is that's supposed to be a hot spot.

708
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:45.920
The BFRO has a couple of sightings there and no

709
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:47.079
footprints nothing.

710
00:42:48.199 --> 00:42:49.960
I went in the snow, I went in the rain,

711
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:51.480
I went in the summer.

712
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:56.480
And I didn't see anything for the whole year, let's see.

713
00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:00.760
And then and then I had a possible And this

714
00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:05.280
was back in on the Clearwater River and I was

715
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:06.159
I was sitting.

716
00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:09.400
We were sitting watching the river rafts, you know, the

717
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:12.639
rafts that go over the rapids and whatnot. And we

718
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:14.880
tried it. We went down the river raft and.

719
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:18.559
Whatnot, and then we went up and was was we're

720
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:23.639
watching them go by, and this is only a possibility.

721
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:28.960
But I saw what looked like either someone in complete

722
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:33.760
black snow pants, black jacket, you know, and black boots,

723
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:37.800
black hair, you know, walking around like a nut, around

724
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:43.239
in circles on an island in the river. But this

725
00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:47.440
was like a mile away, And so I looked through

726
00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:49.719
my camera and I zoomed in as far as I could,

727
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:51.400
and it was so blurry I could not tell what

728
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:55.079
it was. But if it was a person, they must

729
00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:58.159
have been really having some psychological problems, because they were

730
00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:00.719
they were just walking around like when you see a

731
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:03.199
coyote in the zoo, and it's just pacing back and

732
00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.880
forth and pacing back and forth. So that was a

733
00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:10.840
possible one. And it's about all I can remember as far.

734
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:15.599
As those ray That's some fascinating stuff. I'm gonna jump

735
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:19.000
in for a little bit. Especially, I mean, not just

736
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:22.800
that you saw one during that blizzard, but I mean,

737
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:26.760
really you it sounds like you saw a family unit.

738
00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:31.119
I mean there's a female holding a baby, but also

739
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:34.280
one standing to the side right.

740
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:36.199
Right, like the nuclear family.

741
00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:39.719
Yeah, but this is I mean, I can't say that

742
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:43.199
I was actively looking for sasquatch my whole life, because

743
00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:46.719
I wasn't. It just happened to be like everybody's normal

744
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:50.000
pop culture. You see bigfoot in pop culture all the time,

745
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:54.280
especially now, bumper stickers, TV shows, the Internet.

746
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:54.800
Just tons of it.

747
00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:57.880
But at first it was kind of, you know, a

748
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:00.360
little bit out there to think this stuff.

749
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:04.559
But I'd say after.

750
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:08.079
The Yosemite tracks, you know, I kind of looked around

751
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:11.480
a little bit. But then, like I say, twelve years ago,

752
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:14.639
when I moved to Montane to idem, I moved to

753
00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:18.440
Montana first, but then I had I had to get

754
00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:21.039
out of there for some reason anyway, So I got

755
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:26.480
here in northern Idaho and it was just so the

756
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:29.800
stuff was so obvious. I'm not saying there's a huge

757
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:33.800
population or anything like that. It's just as I was

758
00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:39.960
in the wilderness, almost constantly kayaking, horseback riding, mountain biking, hiking,

759
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:43.840
because I was retired at this point and hunting a lot,

760
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:46.840
and everyone I met was pretty much in the hunting.

761
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:48.440
So that was your, you know, your kind of your

762
00:45:48.440 --> 00:45:49.079
social thing.

763
00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:53.960
Either went, you know, coconey fishing, or you went hunting,

764
00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:56.199
and that's like, hey, you want to do something, it's

765
00:45:56.280 --> 00:46:00.760
usually hunting or cocaine fishing or kayaking. I went, you know,

766
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:03.480
with the kayak especially, you can get into some real

767
00:46:03.639 --> 00:46:04.400
rural areas.

768
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:07.559
But it's my opinion.

769
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:12.840
That the Sasquatch I think there's probably, in my opinion,

770
00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:18.599
four sub types or four species that are are that

771
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:21.599
we call bigfoot, and I think the one in the

772
00:46:21.639 --> 00:46:25.239
Northwest is the is the type one or the patty type,

773
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:29.480
which is a big bulky ape looking on top, big

774
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:35.239
burly human looking on the bottom type structure that's maybe

775
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:38.639
a big grilla type. And then I think the type

776
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:43.400
two is a bit smaller, maybe like like the skunk

777
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:48.480
ape or chimpanzee type form. And I think that this

778
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:52.320
isn't my idea, hear other people talk similarly, but I

779
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.960
think that there's the type three, which is almost like

780
00:46:56.280 --> 00:47:02.199
a baboon type commonoid or just maybe a little bit

781
00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:03.719
more aggressive muzzle.

782
00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:06.960
And I think that's what you know people call dog

783
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:11.280
man or what this whatnot wolf man, this kind of thing.

784
00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:14.079
I think it's the same type of thing, but I

785
00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:18.599
think it's it's must muzzle characteristic is a little more prominent.

786
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:22.039
Where like the Type one, like Patty the Big Frip

787
00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:26.719
from the sixty seven Patterson Gimlin film, it's more real bust.

788
00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:31.920
It has a large sagittal crest, a big jaw, and

789
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:38.880
no massive muscularity. And then the Type four is from

790
00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:41.719
what I was talking to a guy in Alaska and

791
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:45.400
he said, they have one there that's like more like

792
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:50.000
a caveman like some kind of like it's not like

793
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:54.239
a Homo sapien or something, but maybe Neanderthal. I think

794
00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:55.159
they call it there.

795
00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:56.599
You know, I don't know.

796
00:47:56.719 --> 00:47:59.880
I'm just going by what these people say, the researchers there,

797
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:04.400
and I think I think in this area Montana all

798
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.119
the way to the coast, and I think would be

799
00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:10.480
the Type one, like the big the big type. But

800
00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:13.239
the strange things what I think about it, you know,

801
00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:19.440
like Paul Freeman's video Kimlin's video both have similarities and

802
00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:22.400
you know, bulk and things like that. They both filmed it,

803
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:25.960
they both have context with footprints and this sort of thing,

804
00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:29.239
And in any case, I think that.

805
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:31.000
I kind of lost my train of thought. Sorry about that.

806
00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:33.119
I took three today.

807
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:36.239
I got a question for you actually that might apply

808
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:39.000
to that. Do you think these types ever could live

809
00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:43.880
together or they're pretty you know, pretty separate.

810
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:45.559
Well, I don't know.

811
00:48:46.039 --> 00:48:48.880
I do know that I think geography wise they might

812
00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:54.360
be separate because like the skunkate format form I have

813
00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:57.559
never heard out here. It's always the big robust and

814
00:48:57.639 --> 00:48:59.960
I haven't really heard too much about that type being

815
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:04.880
down and in the swamps and whatnot. But it's almost

816
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:09.440
like territorialism, like if a wolf. If a wolf pack

817
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:14.360
comes into a new area, they immediately kill all other canines.

818
00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:17.119
They kill the dogs, they kill the coyotes, they kill

819
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:20.840
the foxes, they kill the other wolves. It's a gray wolf,

820
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:24.199
they'll kill the timber wolf, and they pretty much take

821
00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:27.280
over the territory and they want to eliminate all competition,

822
00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:30.559
and so it you know, there may be that scenario.

823
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:34.559
But by this but if that was true, then well

824
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:36.920
I don't know, maybe they do, but they would probably

825
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:39.519
want to kill off the humans too. You know, if

826
00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:41.920
they're trying to if they want to be the prominent

827
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:46.039
primate apex predator primate, they'd probably kill humans too. But

828
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:50.960
I'm not saying they don't. It's just the Yeah, So

829
00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:53.880
it was a it's going to make a point on that,

830
00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:55.719
but I took.

831
00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:56.639
Out three trees today.

832
00:49:57.320 --> 00:50:00.800
There's a random, really random question going to throw out

833
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:06.159
just because you've mentioned Montana stuff a lot in your background.

834
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:10.960
Did any of the things that you experienced in Montana?

835
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:14.320
Have you ever been near There's a place in Montana

836
00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:18.360
that was discovered called the Sage Wall. Have you ever got.

837
00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:20.920
I know about the Sage Wall? Right? Have you been there?

838
00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:23.920
My son's my son's been there. I haven't been there.

839
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:26.920
My son lives just in a cabin right outside of

840
00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:31.400
Callous Bell And yeah, he knows all about the Sage Wall,

841
00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:35.920
and he's showing me photographs of it. And it's pretty

842
00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:40.480
intriguing because it's not it's not like a massive geog

843
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:44.760
you know, monolith where you look at it and then

844
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:46.679
like on the other side that you know it's it's

845
00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:50.519
a it's a flat or dirt. I mean, there's nothing

846
00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:51.320
on the other side.

847
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:53.679
It's a wall, and it.

848
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:57.559
Looks to me similar to the structures that like in

849
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:01.039
South America and stuff where the stone cutting is so

850
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:04.320
advanced that it almost looks like it's you know, it's

851
00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:05.199
melted together.

852
00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:06.400
You know what I'm saying.

853
00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:10.119
Like, there's some spots where it looks, oh, that looks natural,

854
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:12.599
but that's where it's eroding. That's where it's starting to

855
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:15.920
come apart. But he says, he told me that he

856
00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:20.800
thought that Delter sounds or sonic imagery shows that thirty

857
00:51:20.840 --> 00:51:24.280
feet deep, So that would mean even though how massive

858
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:26.960
they are, there are another thirty feet below ground, which

859
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:28.719
is which is pretty mind boggling.

860
00:51:29.239 --> 00:51:33.079
That kind of thing is because just bonkers. It's I mean,

861
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:35.840
it's one of those things where it is fascinating to me,

862
00:51:35.960 --> 00:51:39.320
but it's like I can't let myself get too into

863
00:51:39.400 --> 00:51:43.119
it or I will lose my main focus, which is

864
00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:45.400
big Yeah right now what I mean like, yeah, this

865
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:48.360
is what this is. Like, my focus is getting the

866
00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:51.960
word out. But that wall is fascinating and maybe they're

867
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:54.119
If they could be connected, that would be great. I mean,

868
00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:56.360
then the two two could work together.

869
00:51:56.480 --> 00:52:01.039
But you know, well, you know there's always that the stories,

870
00:52:01.159 --> 00:52:04.239
the oral history of a lot of the Native American

871
00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:07.840
groups saying they used to trade with and you know,

872
00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:11.760
it was more they had more of a symbiotic relationship

873
00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:15.800
with the two species. I mean, it looks like to me,

874
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:20.800
like through DNA studies that they have identical DNA or

875
00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:26.079
at least so close that it can't be discerned, because

876
00:52:26.239 --> 00:52:29.760
like in the Olympic project, they found I would imagine

877
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:31.440
urine in that nest.

878
00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:33.239
And they tested and it was human.

879
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.079
And then a lot of times you'll hear about hair

880
00:52:36.199 --> 00:52:40.840
samples that come back and oh it's human. Well is

881
00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:44.239
it human or do they just have really close DNA

882
00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:45.840
that's non discernible.

883
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:52.800
Wow, that's that's really interesting. I don't remember hearing about that.

884
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:55.280
That is I'm going to have to go back and

885
00:52:55.719 --> 00:52:58.400
look through all that stuff again. That's really that's what.

886
00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:03.159
I've got some some hair, some hair samples, and I'm

887
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:05.119
you know, people ask me, well, why didn't.

888
00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:06.480
You get something DNA checked?

889
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:08.559
And I don't have the kind of money to do

890
00:53:08.599 --> 00:53:11.320
that kind of stuff, you know, I mean I don't.

891
00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:13.960
I'm just you know, a person like everyone else with

892
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:17.719
a hobby, right right, But I have found hair that

893
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:23.039
looks pretty intriguing. And I put it under the microscope,

894
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:29.599
and the theoretical perspective is this, okay, if you if you,

895
00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:32.920
if you line it up with human hair, human hair,

896
00:53:33.320 --> 00:53:36.920
all of us get a haircut eventually, and those who don't,

897
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:38.880
you know, they got really long hair and they have

898
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:42.559
split ends and this kind of stuff. But the Sasquatch

899
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:46.079
hair has never been cut. So that's one thing, and

900
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:50.719
that's not you know, conclusive. The other thing is it's

901
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:56.239
never been dyed or washed. So our hair has small

902
00:53:56.320 --> 00:54:04.159
particles residual chemicals from onehing, from chlorinated water, from hair dye.

903
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:08.320
You know, for the people who dye their hair or

904
00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:12.159
bleach their hair. There's there's a chemical that's usually in

905
00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:16.960
human hair. The other thing is the medulla or the

906
00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:22.039
core that holds the protein in the in the hair,

907
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:27.159
which is where the DNA is. It's completely absent in

908
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:32.519
the Bigfoot hair. And in Jeff Meldrum's book see it's Legends.

909
00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:34.079
Meet Science from the movie.

910
00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:37.599
Sasquatch Sasquatch Legends Meet Science, and then he came out

911
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:41.400
with a book afterwards and he documents in there that

912
00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:44.719
there's no medula and you know or you know, the

913
00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:48.159
center DNA core protein core of the hair. They just

914
00:54:48.199 --> 00:54:48.880
don't have it.

915
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:52.039
And you know that's why they're their hair I guess

916
00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:55.960
is so you know, light and fluffy. And then when Paul.

917
00:54:55.800 --> 00:55:00.800
Freeman sent in some hair samples to get analysis analysized

918
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:02.239
in them, I believe.

919
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:05.000
It was in the.

920
00:55:03.719 --> 00:55:07.400
Sixties or seventies anyway, he sent them in for analysis,

921
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:14.199
and the analysis lady said, you know, this is strange,

922
00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:17.440
but it looks like the medula is either crushed out

923
00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:20.039
or bleached out or there's no modula in this hair.

924
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:25.199
So there's characteristics.

925
00:55:24.280 --> 00:55:28.360
And I think there's some others, but those characteristics are

926
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:31.559
and it's not for its hair, but the hair it's

927
00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:32.559
though similar to.

928
00:55:32.599 --> 00:55:37.079
Humans under a microscope, it's not like human hair.

929
00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:40.480
It is really fascinating when you look into it and

930
00:55:40.599 --> 00:55:43.599
you read doctor Meldrum's book, and no, it's a thing

931
00:55:43.639 --> 00:55:46.239
that does come up on this show every once in

932
00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:49.760
a while. But you know, Ray, I would love if

933
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:53.199
you could spend a little bit of time kind of

934
00:55:53.400 --> 00:56:00.199
talking about how Bigfoot Quest magazine came about and why

935
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:03.280
you came out with that publication. I think it's important.

936
00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:04.440
We've talked about that for a bit.

937
00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:09.280
Okay, we'll say it was during the COVID lockdown as

938
00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:13.239
far as I can remember, and so I was looking

939
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:16.480
for like an outlet to keep my mind getting I

940
00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:20.320
was doing some I was actually carving sasquatches in the garage,

941
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:22.800
and I had all these you know, other hobbies and

942
00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:27.920
stuff like that, and watching started watching reruns of Finding Bigfoot,

943
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:30.280
like hundreds of them, you know, like all of them.

944
00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:34.000
I was like binging on it them and Monster Quest

945
00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:37.719
and you know, things like that. And when I was

946
00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:43.239
in college, I did a newsletter kind of like a

947
00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:48.400
magazine newsletter journal for the people that studied the lithic

948
00:56:48.440 --> 00:56:51.880
technology or flint napping or stone tool studies, the replication

949
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:55.239
of stone tools, and people do it at rock shows

950
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:58.400
now and things like that, and they use lapidary equipment

951
00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:01.760
and make these beautiful pieces, which are great. But it

952
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:05.239
grew that art form, which is really common now, grew

953
00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:10.960
out of this replicative systems analysis of in archaeology, and

954
00:57:11.320 --> 00:57:16.400
some people got quite famous, and their replications were used

955
00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:21.480
to bolster academic research projects. When they were studying, say,

956
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:24.239
project all Points. They'd find a certain type of project

957
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:27.039
all Point made out of flint and an archaeological site,

958
00:57:27.719 --> 00:57:32.360
so they would study the form of the project doll points,

959
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:34.920
and they changed over time, so they had what they

960
00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:39.480
called typology. So typology was if it has the project

961
00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:42.639
all points two inches long and it has side notches

962
00:57:42.679 --> 00:57:45.679
in it to attach to an arrow, and before that

963
00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:47.480
it had a flute up the center and it was

964
00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:49.960
three inches long, and that was from Clovis people, and

965
00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:52.159
that was minod on spear and thrown from a spear

966
00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:54.360
thrower and things like that. So they had what they

967
00:57:54.360 --> 00:57:59.480
called typology, and then they had a structural and then structuralism,

968
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:01.880
which is how they were made and what they were

969
00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:04.880
made out of, and then functionalism like okay, how were

970
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:05.400
they used?

971
00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:07.920
Was it a knife? Was it a project all point?

972
00:58:08.639 --> 00:58:11.679
Was it a bone? I? Was it a stone drill?

973
00:58:11.960 --> 00:58:17.320
Stuff like that. Well, to bolster their studies, they wanted

974
00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:22.079
to add how it was made. So they would employ

975
00:58:22.599 --> 00:58:26.679
a flint napper or lithic technologist or lithic specialist and

976
00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:31.000
they would say, okay, let's let's try to reverse engineer

977
00:58:31.079 --> 00:58:34.000
this stone tool to find out how it was made,

978
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:38.559
and that would of course bolster their their published published work.

979
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:42.800
So anyway, so I got into that realm, and then

980
00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:48.280
so I decided to start to actually re re rebirth

981
00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:53.119
an old journal called Flint Nappers Exchange that it went

982
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:57.199
out of business. So in college I started this flint

983
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:00.320
Napping Digest, and it was just for people in the

984
00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:06.039
community that we're doing these research projects replicating stone, replicating

985
00:59:06.320 --> 00:59:11.599
mining the flint, replicating heat trating or thermally altering the flint.

986
00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:14.480
When it's like ceramic, you know, if you cook it,

987
00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:16.840
it gets a little bit shinier and a little bit

988
00:59:16.840 --> 00:59:20.360
easier to work, and a little bit sharper edges. So anyway,

989
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:26.079
so I started this this publication and it was it was,

990
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:28.280
you know, prove to rudimentary. At the time, we didn't

991
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:31.480
have computers or anything like that. So anyway, I did

992
00:59:31.480 --> 00:59:34.400
that for a couple of years, and so during COVID,

993
00:59:34.400 --> 00:59:37.360
I thought, you know, I'm going to start doing that again. Well,

994
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:39.400
what I've soon found out is no one cared about

995
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:44.440
that anymore because it wasn't it wasn't a replicative science anymore.

996
00:59:44.519 --> 00:59:47.559
It was a it was a lapidary art and people

997
00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:52.000
were making these beautiful, perfectly patterned flake knives out of

998
00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:57.280
flint and jasper and agate and things like that and

999
00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:01.039
selling them for art. So no really cared about the

1000
01:00:01.159 --> 01:00:03.639
archaeological experimental aspect of it.

1001
01:00:04.039 --> 01:00:06.239
So that is okay that I'm not going to be

1002
01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:07.719
able to do that publication.

1003
01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:10.760
So I made them, and I think I sold one

1004
01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:13.000
and it was, you know, it was pretty you know,

1005
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:13.880
it was good quality.

1006
01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:16.400
Now because I had computers and Amazon and everything.

1007
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:20.719
I sold one, so that wasn't going to work. So

1008
01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:23.679
I sort of gave up on that. And then after

1009
01:00:23.719 --> 01:00:26.440
watching these you know, the big Foot shows and stuff,

1010
01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:29.400
I said, I'm thinking, well, I wonder if anyone would

1011
01:00:29.440 --> 01:00:33.519
be interested in that. And I think that was two

1012
01:00:33.559 --> 01:00:36.440
thousand or twenty two whenever that stuff was going on,

1013
01:00:36.519 --> 01:00:42.079
I remember. But anyway, so I made one just based

1014
01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:45.239
on my experiences up to that point. And I hadn't

1015
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:48.760
you know, I hadn't done the Montana stuff. I hadn't

1016
01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:52.679
you know, done that sort of thing yet. So I

1017
01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:56.480
had all this stuff like Yosemite and you know, a

1018
01:00:56.559 --> 01:00:59.239
couple other you know, some of the footprints I found.

1019
01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:04.119
I started talking about the structures and the and that

1020
01:01:04.159 --> 01:01:07.280
sort of thing, and some of the theories about what

1021
01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:11.039
the species might be. And so I put one out

1022
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:15.159
and it was it was pretty pretty basic and stuff.

1023
01:01:14.840 --> 01:01:17.239
Like that, but you know, it's on Amazon.

1024
01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:19.719
So it had been nice cover and everything, and then

1025
01:01:19.760 --> 01:01:25.440
I met a guy online, Steve Baxter from England, who's

1026
01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:28.719
who's thought, hey, this is great, but it's kind of

1027
01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:32.360
it needs some work, you know, like editorial work. So

1028
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:35.519
he was kind enough to rewrite the whole thing, and

1029
01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:37.280
he's he was an artist.

1030
01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:41.920
I still is. So he made the cover and then we,

1031
01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:43.559
you know, we put it out.

1032
01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:47.639
Again and it did really pretty well, so not long,

1033
01:01:47.840 --> 01:01:50.360
i'd say, maybe a month or two later, we thought, hey,

1034
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:51.679
you know, let's do another one.

1035
01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:54.679
So we thought we'd make a theme, like a theme

1036
01:01:55.159 --> 01:01:55.519
to it.

1037
01:01:57.039 --> 01:02:00.440
So the theme for the second one was to be

1038
01:02:01.519 --> 01:02:08.880
the Patterson Gimlin site Bluff Creek. So I contacted Daniel Perez,

1039
01:02:09.079 --> 01:02:12.599
who's an expert on the subject. Let's see, Oh, I

1040
01:02:12.639 --> 01:02:15.519
can't remember who else. But what I did is I

1041
01:02:15.519 --> 01:02:16.599
went down the line.

1042
01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:17.519
I tried.

1043
01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:21.679
I contacted doctor Meldrum, but he didn't know me or

1044
01:02:21.719 --> 01:02:24.960
anything at the time, so he declined.

1045
01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:30.159
But I got quite a few people that were fairly experts.

1046
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:33.039
I can't seem to find it right now, Oh here

1047
01:02:33.039 --> 01:02:33.360
it is.

1048
01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:37.440
So then Stephen Strufford, who owned Bigfoot books there in

1049
01:02:37.480 --> 01:02:40.840
Willow Creek and he'd been on. He was in the

1050
01:02:40.840 --> 01:02:45.440
movie Bluff Creek, the horror film, which is like lost

1051
01:02:45.480 --> 01:02:49.639
footage type film like Blair Witch. And then so he

1052
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:54.840
wrote got a nice article from him, Alexander Pettakoff, who

1053
01:02:54.880 --> 01:02:56.159
does a monster what.

1054
01:02:56.199 --> 01:02:58.639
Is that show? He puts out, Well, he does a

1055
01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:00.760
lot of film, Yeah.

1056
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:01.719
For small town monsters.

1057
01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:05.559
Yeah, small town monsters, right, And he wrote a really

1058
01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:09.400
nice article about his experience in Bluff Creek when he

1059
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:12.719
was making his episode on that all the experiences they have.

1060
01:03:13.079 --> 01:03:16.039
And I think he was with I'm not sure, but

1061
01:03:16.199 --> 01:03:16.880
I think he was.

1062
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:20.519
With Carrick Carrick, Saint Laurent and Jamie Wayne, I think,

1063
01:03:21.239 --> 01:03:25.880
but anyway, and then another lady, Megan Renee Lynn, she

1064
01:03:26.159 --> 01:03:29.599
was I think she lived in the area Native American.

1065
01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:33.760
And then Steve Baxter wrote an article and he was

1066
01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:36.440
the British guy, like I said, he's a cryptozoologist.

1067
01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:38.239
He's a really smart guy.

1068
01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:40.039
And he was the one who helped me, like I said,

1069
01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:43.840
get the thing going. And then of course Daniel Perez

1070
01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:47.280
who does Bigfoot Times.

1071
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:50.079
And Daniel's been in on the you know, with.

1072
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:53.880
The Bluff Creek project, and he was, you know, they're

1073
01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:56.800
looking for those film site before it was found, and

1074
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:00.559
he was friends with Peter Burn and.

1075
01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:04.679
You know all the original guys.

1076
01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:09.400
He knew Paul Freeman, he knew well, you know John Green,

1077
01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:13.119
you know all those guys, and so anyway, so it

1078
01:04:13.199 --> 01:04:15.719
was really neat that he wrote an article all about

1079
01:04:15.719 --> 01:04:19.800
the different cameras and the lenses used and the experimental

1080
01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:23.960
procedures they used to determine the size and distance of

1081
01:04:24.079 --> 01:04:27.639
the subject, which is you know, Patty the Bigfoot. So

1082
01:04:28.119 --> 01:04:33.239
and anyway, that was when that came out. I think

1083
01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:35.800
it was I can't remember it was twenty twenty or

1084
01:04:35.840 --> 01:04:40.360
two twenty two, but anyway, my brain is degregating.

1085
01:04:40.400 --> 01:04:41.599
Twenty twenty two.

1086
01:04:42.679 --> 01:04:45.480
So and then after that, I think I did one

1087
01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:50.880
more and then I gave up. And so Steve Baxter

1088
01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:57.519
took over the magazine for two issues winter of twenty

1089
01:04:57.559 --> 01:05:00.599
three and then fall of two twenty two. That he

1090
01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:03.360
did those ones, and I just I wrote an article

1091
01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:06.320
for each one. But he was able to get Nate

1092
01:05:06.440 --> 01:05:11.599
Rudd and Ken Gerard and Russell Eastbrooks who just you know,

1093
01:05:11.679 --> 01:05:15.880
came out with the book Sasquatch with historical observations in that.

1094
01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:21.079
And then so anyway, his came out really professional, and

1095
01:05:21.320 --> 01:05:24.239
you know, I just I was getting I didn't like

1096
01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:27.679
the trolls and things that were, you know, getting on

1097
01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:30.599
the Amazon and giving it really bad reviews and you

1098
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:33.079
could tell they didn't even read it because it would

1099
01:05:33.079 --> 01:05:34.960
be the same old thing, the same old thing. I said,

1100
01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:38.000
Wait a minute, nothing is the same. You know, nothing

1101
01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:42.599
we're doing has anything to do with what came before.

1102
01:05:43.280 --> 01:05:46.960
No one was talking about stone tools or that I

1103
01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:50.239
know of anyway, and the hunting techniques, you know, and

1104
01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:53.079
that sort of thing. And I don't think anyone was

1105
01:05:53.320 --> 01:05:56.360
contacting all the experts on Bluff Creek and then lining

1106
01:05:56.400 --> 01:05:59.840
them up, you know, for one good publication. And that

1107
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:01.800
was like, you know, that's it's really hard when you

1108
01:06:01.840 --> 01:06:04.199
get other people involved because you're you know, you're waiting

1109
01:06:04.239 --> 01:06:07.400
for one more guy and they decide not to do it,

1110
01:06:07.480 --> 01:06:10.559
and then you know, someone else wonders why they didn't

1111
01:06:10.559 --> 01:06:13.039
get to do it and things like that. But anyway,

1112
01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:17.639
after the two issues came out in England, Amazon shut

1113
01:06:17.679 --> 01:06:20.679
them down. They shut Steve Baxter down, and I'm not

1114
01:06:20.719 --> 01:06:25.239
sure if they thought he was pledgiarizing me even though

1115
01:06:25.280 --> 01:06:27.760
I gave you know, full permission, you know, and I

1116
01:06:27.800 --> 01:06:31.679
even write articles in it. But anyway, so I just thought, oh,

1117
01:06:31.719 --> 01:06:33.920
that'd be a shame to let that go. So I

1118
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:36.639
started it again, but I changed the name to Bigfoot

1119
01:06:36.719 --> 01:06:41.360
Mystery Magazine, and I put more like encounter stories and

1120
01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:44.000
stuff like that, and it just wasn't fun for me

1121
01:06:44.360 --> 01:06:48.599
to just, you know, regurgitate people's big Foot stories. So

1122
01:06:48.679 --> 01:06:51.679
I started doing Bigfoot Magazine again, and I started doing

1123
01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:54.159
like what I like to do as the research part,

1124
01:06:55.079 --> 01:06:59.360
and then publish what what what my perceptions are of

1125
01:06:59.360 --> 01:07:03.199
what I found and what other people find. And then

1126
01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:06.920
then I met I wanted to go to the Emerald

1127
01:07:06.920 --> 01:07:16.119
Triangle after the Bigfoot does the Hulu Sasquatch program. Yeah,

1128
01:07:16.119 --> 01:07:19.679
I got really inspired, so I started trying to get

1129
01:07:19.719 --> 01:07:23.960
information down there. So what I did is I had

1130
01:07:23.960 --> 01:07:28.800
someone I was talking to that looked was unassuming aging lady,

1131
01:07:29.480 --> 01:07:32.119
well not unassuming. She was attractive and stuff, but you

1132
01:07:32.119 --> 01:07:36.360
wouldn't think she was like a Bigfoot researcher. So I

1133
01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:38.800
was in martial arts for a long time, so I

1134
01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:42.079
had a friend of mine that was still into the

1135
01:07:42.119 --> 01:07:47.440
martial arts competitively. So I talked to him and he says, yeah,

1136
01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:49.639
my daughter's into Bigfoot and she'll do this.

1137
01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:51.760
So she went and got.

1138
01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:56.559
A job with a grower down in the Emerald Triangle.

1139
01:07:57.039 --> 01:08:02.239
Started trying to get information that was really interesting. And

1140
01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:04.480
I talked to a couple of growers. You know, now

1141
01:08:04.519 --> 01:08:09.280
they use high hy drop hydro hydro and it's all indoors.

1142
01:08:10.199 --> 01:08:14.199
But before that and then certain people that were homegrown,

1143
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:17.279
you know, you're doing outside. Still we're having the same

1144
01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:22.479
issue where the sasquatch should come in and eat the buds.

1145
01:08:22.039 --> 01:08:24.640
Off the buds.

1146
01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:29.479
So yeah, so I said, I contacted this one guy

1147
01:08:29.600 --> 01:08:32.319
I knew, and he was a younger guy than me,

1148
01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:36.079
but I knew his dad type of thing. And he said, Oh,

1149
01:08:36.079 --> 01:08:39.279
my son's a pruner, you know, he goes in and

1150
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:43.439
prunes the plants seasonally. So I asked him, I says,

1151
01:08:44.039 --> 01:08:46.439
what what's the deal with the sasquatch? Like on Sauce

1152
01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:50.039
Hulu sasquatch and goes, oh, yeah, man, those things come

1153
01:08:50.079 --> 01:08:53.760
in and eat all the buds, you know, eat your profits,

1154
01:08:54.399 --> 01:08:56.439
you know, and would put up electric fences and they'd

1155
01:08:56.439 --> 01:08:59.920
bust them down and they'd throw rocks at us, and

1156
01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:03.359
you know, we'd we'd make noise and we'd put you know,

1157
01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:06.560
ropes with cans on them, we could hear them. And

1158
01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:08.319
I said, well, what do you think that they that

1159
01:09:08.359 --> 01:09:11.159
they tore these guys apart? And he says, he says,

1160
01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:15.239
you know it's possible because you know if they when

1161
01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:18.720
they get high, they have the what they call receptors.

1162
01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:22.520
And what these receptors are is there in the human

1163
01:09:22.600 --> 01:09:26.720
brain there's a receptor that is uh sensitive. Well, so

1164
01:09:26.760 --> 01:09:31.359
it was my theory was that sasquatch also has these receptors,

1165
01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:36.039
but instead of make them nuts and so so I

1166
01:09:36.239 --> 01:09:39.560
called Meldrum and I say, I think I called him.

1167
01:09:39.600 --> 01:09:41.640
I probably text him because I don't think he answers

1168
01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:44.119
the phone and I call him, but because we have

1169
01:09:44.159 --> 01:09:46.800
this issue where I think that they use stone tools,

1170
01:09:46.800 --> 01:09:48.880
and he says, they don't have a posable thumb, so

1171
01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:51.479
how would they how would they how would that functionally

1172
01:09:51.520 --> 01:09:52.199
be possible?

1173
01:09:52.600 --> 01:09:55.319
You know, they have an anectonym of the disadvantage without

1174
01:09:55.319 --> 01:09:59.039
the opposable thumb. But in any case, so it's the

1175
01:09:59.079 --> 01:09:59.760
funniest thing.

1176
01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:02.760
He writes me, back, I gave this whole theory about

1177
01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:07.479
the receptors and stuff in these plants and why these

1178
01:10:07.520 --> 01:10:13.880
sasquatch are getting violent. And he writes back, what have

1179
01:10:14.039 --> 01:10:18.000
you been smoking. That was about the funniest response I

1180
01:10:18.039 --> 01:10:21.359
ever heard, especially from like the science guy. You know,

1181
01:10:21.439 --> 01:10:24.880
he's like the quintessential professor. You know, what have you

1182
01:10:24.960 --> 01:10:28.039
been smoking? So I kind of backed top of that

1183
01:10:28.079 --> 01:10:31.960
theoretical perspective. But and I haven't been to the area since,

1184
01:10:32.039 --> 01:10:35.039
but you know, I think that you know, there's the

1185
01:10:35.439 --> 01:10:39.720
thing about that movie was that documentary is the guy's

1186
01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:42.319
name that was the drug lord guy down.

1187
01:10:42.159 --> 01:10:44.840
There was Sasquatch or Bigfoot, I think Sasquatch.

1188
01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:48.279
Yeah, So when the guy says Sasquatch just ripped up

1189
01:10:48.319 --> 01:10:52.039
these guys, you know, dismembered them. Was he talking about

1190
01:10:52.319 --> 01:10:55.960
the drug layer drug lord with a nickname Sasquatch, right?

1191
01:10:56.079 --> 01:10:58.279
Or were they talking about a real Sasquatch. And that's

1192
01:10:58.319 --> 01:10:59.439
where the mystery is.

1193
01:11:00.399 --> 01:11:02.880
But even at the even at the end, even now,

1194
01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:06.079
no one really knows which one it was.

1195
01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:10.000
But in the area, you know, from what I understand

1196
01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:12.920
from the people that I that I talked to, I

1197
01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:14.920
talked to one guy down there too. This was in

1198
01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:20.560
Willow Creek, which is in the Emerald Triangle. I was

1199
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:22.560
I was looking at one of the one of the

1200
01:11:22.600 --> 01:11:26.399
carvings there, one of the it looks like a chainsaw carving,

1201
01:11:26.439 --> 01:11:29.119
and it's called Ohman, it's in the center of Willow Creek,

1202
01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:32.079
which is, you know, Bigfoot Capital of the World, such

1203
01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:32.479
a thing.

1204
01:11:33.119 --> 01:11:34.479
Everything's sort of Bigfoot.

1205
01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:36.359
They had when I was there, they had what they

1206
01:11:36.399 --> 01:11:40.960
call Bigfoot Burger, which is a burger place that served

1207
01:11:41.399 --> 01:11:44.720
big foot shaped of shape of a foot burgers.

1208
01:11:45.199 --> 01:11:47.039
Right, yeah, yeah.

1209
01:11:47.079 --> 01:11:49.680
So I'm standing near Oma which is this in the

1210
01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:54.039
center center of town, and I remember the nice name,

1211
01:11:54.680 --> 01:11:58.920
Oh McLaren. Jim McLaren was one of the Bigfoot guys

1212
01:11:58.960 --> 01:12:03.079
that was with missing John Green and whatnot back then,

1213
01:12:03.359 --> 01:12:06.079
and he was a student there at Humboldt State and

1214
01:12:06.119 --> 01:12:09.439
he carved the Omah the same at the same time

1215
01:12:09.560 --> 01:12:13.840
Patterson and Gimblin had their encounter. So that was sixty

1216
01:12:13.880 --> 01:12:17.840
seven October. Any case, I'm standing next to McLaren's Omah

1217
01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:22.159
statue and there was I guess people waiting for a bus.

1218
01:12:22.199 --> 01:12:24.199
I'm thinking, I can't remember, it was so long ago,

1219
01:12:24.279 --> 01:12:28.399
but there was a guy that was a lumberjack was

1220
01:12:28.439 --> 01:12:30.800
one of the ones standing there, and I was looking

1221
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:34.199
at the Omah and I was laughing. And this is

1222
01:12:34.279 --> 01:12:39.319
before you know, I this was way before the magazine

1223
01:12:39.399 --> 01:12:42.680
and my in depth type studies. But I was laughing

1224
01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:44.439
at this thing, and I says, you give me a

1225
01:12:44.479 --> 01:12:46.800
dirty look. And I says, what what's wrong?

1226
01:12:47.479 --> 01:12:49.720
Do you believe in Bigfoot? And he got mad.

1227
01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:53.199
He says many I've heard him talk. He says, I've

1228
01:12:53.199 --> 01:12:55.720
heard him talk. And he says, you know when you're

1229
01:12:55.800 --> 01:12:59.920
when you're way back in there taking trees, they do

1230
01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:02.399
they do come out and investigate.

1231
01:13:02.800 --> 01:13:03.760
Like Jerry Crew.

1232
01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:06.840
You know that they were making a road in that area,

1233
01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:09.800
you know, by laws camp, and then you know he

1234
01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:12.039
found the footprints in the morning, which is why they

1235
01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:15.800
named it bigfoot. Right, went to the Humboldt Times, and

1236
01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:18.640
Jerry Crew was I'm pretty sure the one who named

1237
01:13:18.680 --> 01:13:23.399
them bigfoot. As I've talked to Carl Crewe, his his nephew,

1238
01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:25.840
I guess they were his great nephew. And he says, yeah,

1239
01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:29.199
he was the first one to call it bigfoot, and

1240
01:13:29.239 --> 01:13:31.439
then the Humboldt Times published it and the rest of

1241
01:13:31.479 --> 01:13:34.840
his history. But yeah, he said he heard them talk.

1242
01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:38.199
And this guy was I mean not only serious, but

1243
01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:41.399
you know angry that like you know, you know, you

1244
01:13:41.399 --> 01:13:44.279
don't come to someone's town and mock their beliefs.

1245
01:13:43.840 --> 01:13:44.039
You know.

1246
01:13:46.520 --> 01:13:49.800
But anyway, you know, I wasn't really thought it was funny.

1247
01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:52.039
It was just like we were joking around with statue,

1248
01:13:52.079 --> 01:13:52.359
you know.

1249
01:13:52.439 --> 01:13:53.119
Right right.

1250
01:13:54.159 --> 01:13:56.840
And the Native Americans the era in the area have

1251
01:13:57.000 --> 01:14:00.880
real deep oral history on Omah, even to the extent

1252
01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:05.079
of describing it using tools. One description I have is

1253
01:14:05.079 --> 01:14:07.159
what they'd take a soap root, which is kind of

1254
01:14:07.439 --> 01:14:09.439
a tall grass and it has like an onion at

1255
01:14:09.479 --> 01:14:13.600
the bottom or a tuber, and they would take, according

1256
01:14:13.600 --> 01:14:16.600
to oral history, they would take this soap root and

1257
01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:19.439
squish it up into SuDS because it squishes up, it

1258
01:14:19.520 --> 01:14:22.279
makes like soap SuDS, and they'd put it in the

1259
01:14:22.359 --> 01:14:26.600
creeks and it would clog up the fish's gills and

1260
01:14:26.600 --> 01:14:27.760
they would just float up and.

1261
01:14:27.720 --> 01:14:29.800
The sausquatch would pick them up off the top and

1262
01:14:29.840 --> 01:14:31.640
eat them, which is interesting.

1263
01:14:31.720 --> 01:14:34.520
And then they also said that they would they would

1264
01:14:34.560 --> 01:14:36.840
make throw rocks, and they would.

1265
01:14:36.640 --> 01:14:38.800
You know, just like you know the stories here now.

1266
01:14:39.880 --> 01:14:41.560
And then the part of the oral history is that

1267
01:14:42.119 --> 01:14:46.079
the oh my, actually, if you see the horror.

1268
01:14:45.720 --> 01:14:50.000
Film about Sasquatch, I can't remember what it's called. Shoot.

1269
01:14:51.319 --> 01:14:55.199
No, there's one that actually the sasquatch wear masks and

1270
01:14:55.239 --> 01:14:58.119
shoot arrows and whatnot. I can't remember what it's called,

1271
01:14:58.760 --> 01:15:01.840
but anyway, there is movie that has Omah in it

1272
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:05.279
and he is follows the Native American oral tradition of

1273
01:15:06.079 --> 01:15:08.920
you know, covering his face with the mask, shooting arrows

1274
01:15:08.920 --> 01:15:12.279
and stuff like that, and that they actually said that

1275
01:15:12.359 --> 01:15:16.159
in the oral tradition that had used poison arrows with

1276
01:15:16.279 --> 01:15:20.479
poison arrow heads. And if you look in that area

1277
01:15:21.880 --> 01:15:24.960
I think it was, Yeah, it would be just inland

1278
01:15:25.039 --> 01:15:28.479
from that area and a bit to the north. I

1279
01:15:28.560 --> 01:15:32.840
worked on the Piute reservation there as a seasonal archeologist

1280
01:15:32.880 --> 01:15:36.600
once and I met a guy who had actually one

1281
01:15:36.600 --> 01:15:40.319
of the main medicine man. Guy had He told me

1282
01:15:40.399 --> 01:15:44.199
some Sasquatch legends and one of them was that they

1283
01:15:44.239 --> 01:15:48.199
would use the same as the Oma back in Willow Creek.

1284
01:15:48.760 --> 01:15:53.399
The Oma in their tradition also used tools and whatnot,

1285
01:15:53.439 --> 01:15:58.600
and they used a red obsidian, and red obsidian, according

1286
01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:03.520
to their oral tradition, was ritually poison, like a ritualistic

1287
01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:07.560
poison like if you shot someone, if you had obsidian

1288
01:16:07.600 --> 01:16:08.399
and you laid.

1289
01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:10.399
It out the rock, the raw rock.

1290
01:16:11.119 --> 01:16:14.399
They would have different meanings for different ones, like if

1291
01:16:14.399 --> 01:16:18.760
you had a real fancy rainbow s luminescence about it

1292
01:16:18.800 --> 01:16:21.600
that you know, you use that for trade, you know,

1293
01:16:21.640 --> 01:16:24.720
and that makes perfectly common sense. And then if you

1294
01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:27.680
had black obsidi and us, you'd use that for hunting,

1295
01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:30.800
say deer, you would make a projectile point. If it

1296
01:16:30.880 --> 01:16:33.680
was gray, it's got a little bit of texture and

1297
01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:36.000
it's a little tougher, So use that for spear point,

1298
01:16:36.039 --> 01:16:39.319
a knife, or a thrusting object, or even an axe head.

1299
01:16:40.119 --> 01:16:43.600
And then if you have red that's ritually poisoning, and

1300
01:16:43.760 --> 01:16:46.119
use it on your enemies to kill them.

1301
01:16:46.439 --> 01:16:49.079
So I thought that was interesting that the oral history

1302
01:16:49.119 --> 01:16:52.600
about the sauce the ome, which is you know, the

1303
01:16:52.640 --> 01:16:57.039
Sasquatch there would have the same oral history, uh like

1304
01:16:57.359 --> 01:17:02.760
almost you know, similar to the Paiutes hunting, hunting medicine.

1305
01:17:03.079 --> 01:17:07.600
But that's so fascinating stuff. So the oral tradition you

1306
01:17:07.600 --> 01:17:10.159
were saying over by Willow Creek was that from the

1307
01:17:10.199 --> 01:17:11.159
Hoopa tribe.

1308
01:17:10.840 --> 01:17:15.039
Done Hoopa would be ohmah, yeah, okay cool. That would

1309
01:17:15.079 --> 01:17:19.359
be the Oraville Reservation, I think it is. And something

1310
01:17:19.399 --> 01:17:24.119
interesting about that reservation on Oroville is when I was

1311
01:17:24.159 --> 01:17:27.159
in college, I was studying this one guy, the Native

1312
01:17:27.159 --> 01:17:30.039
Americans there have what they call the white deer dance,

1313
01:17:31.039 --> 01:17:35.159
and they would dance, you know, like around you know,

1314
01:17:35.239 --> 01:17:38.079
the fire whatever, like this kind of stuff in their

1315
01:17:38.159 --> 01:17:45.399
native regalia. And they would have albino deer skins because

1316
01:17:45.399 --> 01:17:47.640
they had big medicine, you know, it's and then it

1317
01:17:47.680 --> 01:17:51.239
would put the albino deer head on their head like

1318
01:17:51.279 --> 01:17:53.720
a hat, and then and the skin would be like

1319
01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:57.840
a cape. And then they would have a headband that

1320
01:17:57.960 --> 01:18:02.119
had like bear teeth but they were facing up, and

1321
01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:05.720
they would dance with a staff that had a deer

1322
01:18:05.720 --> 01:18:09.039
skin on it also, you know, the albino deer skin.

1323
01:18:09.439 --> 01:18:14.199
And then they would have these giant obsidian blades. And

1324
01:18:14.600 --> 01:18:18.279
by blades, I don't mean like you know, a detached

1325
01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:22.159
sharp rock that's large it is considered a blade in archaeology.

1326
01:18:22.199 --> 01:18:26.479
But they were flaked on both sides, like an arrowhead

1327
01:18:26.600 --> 01:18:29.319
with a nice flaking on both sides, or an obsidian

1328
01:18:29.399 --> 01:18:32.520
knife or anything. But these things were like thirty forty

1329
01:18:32.600 --> 01:18:38.319
inches long, a foot in width and the thickness of

1330
01:18:38.399 --> 01:18:41.439
about three inches in the center. So these are massive,

1331
01:18:42.079 --> 01:18:46.279
you know, you're talking about fifty sixty pounds, and they're beautiful.

1332
01:18:46.319 --> 01:18:49.479
They look like a surfboard. But you know obsidian or

1333
01:18:49.760 --> 01:18:53.840
volcanic glass, so it's like a gemstone. It's like a

1334
01:18:53.840 --> 01:18:57.520
semi precious gem, and it's the size of a boogie

1335
01:18:57.560 --> 01:19:01.399
board and or a large skateboard. And they're dancing with

1336
01:19:01.439 --> 01:19:03.760
these things and they have a thong around their arm

1337
01:19:04.399 --> 01:19:07.439
and then around the blade. Well, the guy who was

1338
01:19:07.640 --> 01:19:12.680
flint napping those for the Iraq, Karok, and the Hoopah,

1339
01:19:13.119 --> 01:19:16.800
all three of those in that area, he himself was

1340
01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:21.600
a Karok Native American. His name was ted Orcut and

1341
01:19:21.640 --> 01:19:24.760
his can't remember his Indian name was Mitso Pisa fish

1342
01:19:24.840 --> 01:19:27.960
or something like that, which means upriver boy because he

1343
01:19:28.039 --> 01:19:31.840
lived up on the river. So anyway, I was researching

1344
01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:35.800
his techniques to make these giant blades, and I found

1345
01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:39.560
it where a ethnologist or an anthropologists had been interviewing

1346
01:19:40.399 --> 01:19:43.199
him and some of his family members because he learned

1347
01:19:43.239 --> 01:19:46.239
to trade from his uncle, who was also a Karok.

1348
01:19:47.079 --> 01:19:52.399
So anyway, so I'm reading this thing, and right during

1349
01:19:52.439 --> 01:19:57.079
the interview, so all the Karaoks stopped the interview break up,

1350
01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:01.840
and the uncle had seen a sasquad running across this hill.

1351
01:20:01.880 --> 01:20:05.880
And you know this is like in the nineteenth oh wow.

1352
01:20:05.640 --> 01:20:08.239
Yeah, And it's in this and it's in this microfish.

1353
01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:12.680
You know, because this is this is really obscure literature.

1354
01:20:12.720 --> 01:20:14.720
You have to really dig to get this stuff.

1355
01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:18.800
As you can imagine, it's not like mainstream pop culture stuff.

1356
01:20:19.399 --> 01:20:23.039
So even when I'm trying to find out about some

1357
01:20:23.359 --> 01:20:29.000
rare technology from the past, and this is all our past,

1358
01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:33.239
no matter who you are, at some point your ancestors

1359
01:20:33.279 --> 01:20:37.840
were making stone flint tools. I mean even even you know,

1360
01:20:37.880 --> 01:20:41.640
in the Revolutionary War, these flint lock rifles, someone had

1361
01:20:41.640 --> 01:20:44.439
to chip those flint flints to put in those rifles

1362
01:20:44.439 --> 01:20:48.279
to set off the spark. So flint mining and flint

1363
01:20:48.319 --> 01:20:50.920
working had never it's never been a lost art. Like

1364
01:20:50.960 --> 01:20:53.039
some people say, oh, that's a lost art. No, it

1365
01:20:53.119 --> 01:20:58.479
really never was. But anyway, so I thought that was

1366
01:20:58.520 --> 01:21:01.880
so bizarre because that was when when I was doing

1367
01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:05.800
that research. I it was like, you know, you know,

1368
01:21:05.840 --> 01:21:08.520
a long time ago before I was really heavy into

1369
01:21:08.520 --> 01:21:11.479
the Bigfoot research. So I just like, God, that's kind

1370
01:21:11.479 --> 01:21:14.159
of strange, that's kind of random, you know, Like what

1371
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:17.680
they stopped the interview with this guy who came all

1372
01:21:17.680 --> 01:21:21.239
the way from these universities. Hey, someone saw a sasquatch,

1373
01:21:21.239 --> 01:21:24.039
And it was like a big deal. But it wasn't

1374
01:21:24.199 --> 01:21:26.279
like you know or shadow like, oh, we don't believe

1375
01:21:26.279 --> 01:21:28.399
in them. It's like it's a rare sight, like when

1376
01:21:28.439 --> 01:21:31.000
you see an albino moose. Hey, soone so saw on

1377
01:21:31.079 --> 01:21:32.640
albino moose. That's a big deal.

1378
01:21:33.199 --> 01:21:36.960
It was that sort of you know, interaction, social interaction.

1379
01:21:37.119 --> 01:21:39.319
So I thought that was kind of interesting.

1380
01:21:40.159 --> 01:21:43.279
That's awesome. Do you have a copy of that or

1381
01:21:43.279 --> 01:21:45.520
is that just something you were just reading and research?

1382
01:21:46.039 --> 01:21:47.880
Actually I might have it.

1383
01:21:47.960 --> 01:21:51.680
I I actually wrote a book about that's a piece

1384
01:21:51.720 --> 01:21:52.159
of bitch.

1385
01:21:53.319 --> 01:21:54.760
See if I got it here. I don't have it,

1386
01:21:54.840 --> 01:21:56.960
but I can. I can get you a copy of

1387
01:21:56.960 --> 01:21:58.239
the book or send you the link.

1388
01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:00.000
Yeah, that would be cool.

1389
01:22:00.079 --> 01:22:01.359
Uh, it's let's call it.

1390
01:22:01.439 --> 01:22:04.680
I think it's I think it's called Upriver Boy the book.

1391
01:22:04.520 --> 01:22:07.279
Okay, I don't have it, right, cool.

1392
01:22:06.520 --> 01:22:10.199
I just I just have my sasquatchuff. But yeah, and

1393
01:22:10.239 --> 01:22:12.720
it's it was it's a strong thing. But one of

1394
01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:14.439
the guy, one of the guys I was doing the

1395
01:22:14.479 --> 01:22:18.159
research work with, we were going to publish a peer

1396
01:22:18.199 --> 01:22:22.119
reviewed academic journal. But as far as where it goes

1397
01:22:22.159 --> 01:22:25.640
to patience and attention to detail and things like that,

1398
01:22:25.680 --> 01:22:28.439
in academia never my strong point.

1399
01:22:28.439 --> 01:22:30.399
It's like, let's get it done. Let's get it done.

1400
01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:33.159
But I was working with some other people, like some

1401
01:22:33.239 --> 01:22:37.760
of the universities on that, on that research, and you know,

1402
01:22:37.800 --> 01:22:42.000
we found out where ted Orcutt or Mesipieza Fitch. We

1403
01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:45.720
we found out where he lived. You can find Theodore

1404
01:22:45.920 --> 01:22:48.439
or cut and graves dot com. You can see his

1405
01:22:48.560 --> 01:22:52.479
graves down with all these spear points carved into it,

1406
01:22:52.520 --> 01:22:53.439
which is interesting.

1407
01:22:53.479 --> 01:22:56.520
He's in the graveyard there and in that area in

1408
01:22:56.680 --> 01:23:00.119
or Cut I guess. So anyway, it's all verifile. Well,

1409
01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:02.760
I mean, the guy's bones are there, his gravestones there.

1410
01:23:04.239 --> 01:23:06.000
I'd like to find out where he was.

1411
01:23:06.359 --> 01:23:09.840
Making these things because the remnants, the you know, the

1412
01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:13.279
the waist flakes that were detached from these giant blades

1413
01:23:13.319 --> 01:23:15.880
are going to still be there, so you could use

1414
01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:17.560
those to kind of rebuild what.

1415
01:23:17.479 --> 01:23:18.199
He was doing.

1416
01:23:19.079 --> 01:23:21.479
And I one of the guys that was on the

1417
01:23:21.520 --> 01:23:25.439
research project said he was probably using Usually when you

1418
01:23:25.479 --> 01:23:28.920
make these things, you're using like an deer antler or

1419
01:23:28.920 --> 01:23:32.159
a moose antler to percussion and knock flakes off, and

1420
01:23:32.199 --> 01:23:34.439
then you the finer work he used, you.

1421
01:23:34.439 --> 01:23:36.640
Press it off like they call it the pressure method

1422
01:23:36.680 --> 01:23:39.199
with a deer tiet. But this guy was.

1423
01:23:39.199 --> 01:23:42.680
Using actually kind of innovative and he was using a

1424
01:23:42.760 --> 01:23:46.800
mallet instead of like just the antler stuff. He was

1425
01:23:46.880 --> 01:23:50.239
using a mallet he had made and then almost like

1426
01:23:50.279 --> 01:23:52.600
a hammer and a chisel, but it was a mallet,

1427
01:23:52.880 --> 01:23:54.720
and you know, I don't know what you would call

1428
01:23:54.760 --> 01:23:57.880
a chisel made out of a horn. But anyway, the

1429
01:23:58.479 --> 01:24:05.000
interesting part was that in that research, sasquatch was in there.

1430
01:24:06.079 --> 01:24:09.840
So that's such a cool thing when you have multiple

1431
01:24:09.880 --> 01:24:14.680
interests intersect like that unexpectedly. But Ray, it has been

1432
01:24:15.960 --> 01:24:18.920
a pleasure having you on the show, and a lot

1433
01:24:18.960 --> 01:24:23.039
of things we've never talked about before. What's the best

1434
01:24:23.039 --> 01:24:26.640
way for people to pick up copies of that magazine

1435
01:24:26.640 --> 01:24:28.560
if they would be looking for it?

1436
01:24:29.079 --> 01:24:31.119
Well, let's see what you do is you just go

1437
01:24:31.560 --> 01:24:36.199
on Amazon Books and just type in Bigfoot Quest magazine.

1438
01:24:36.279 --> 01:24:39.039
Tons of them well popped up. And the one I.

1439
01:24:39.039 --> 01:24:41.920
Would recommend, of course, the one I always finish is

1440
01:24:41.920 --> 01:24:44.720
always my favorite. But I just did one on Mount

1441
01:24:44.720 --> 01:24:47.840
Saint Helens, and of course not Saint Helens is in

1442
01:24:47.920 --> 01:24:53.319
the same county as the Scuukam cast as Ape Canyon.

1443
01:24:53.439 --> 01:24:54.960
You know the Ape Canyon.

1444
01:24:54.720 --> 01:24:59.039
Attack where you know they sasquatches attacked the cabin and

1445
01:24:59.079 --> 01:25:01.399
there was actually and shot and went off a cliff

1446
01:25:01.399 --> 01:25:03.880
and that I think it was Fred Beck, I think

1447
01:25:03.880 --> 01:25:04.079
it was.

1448
01:25:04.680 --> 01:25:07.199
And anyway, so that was in that area.

1449
01:25:07.439 --> 01:25:10.000
And then Monster Quest when they came out with their

1450
01:25:10.439 --> 01:25:13.359
classic thing that there was a group of women looking

1451
01:25:14.199 --> 01:25:18.000
for saucequatch. There there's so much history in that in

1452
01:25:18.079 --> 01:25:20.880
the Mount Saint Helen's and then there's the course there's

1453
01:25:20.920 --> 01:25:25.119
the theories that you know, the National Guard came in

1454
01:25:25.239 --> 01:25:29.039
after the eruption of Mount Saint Helen and they were

1455
01:25:29.239 --> 01:25:32.560
they found injured sacequatch and things like that that that

1456
01:25:32.880 --> 01:25:38.520
story shoot, there's there's so many saucequatch related things about

1457
01:25:38.560 --> 01:25:42.520
Mount Saint Helen and anyway in that county that is

1458
01:25:42.640 --> 01:25:45.000
in I can't recall the name, but if you look

1459
01:25:45.039 --> 01:25:47.359
on even b f R or any of the other

1460
01:25:47.439 --> 01:25:48.840
selection sites.

1461
01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:51.720
They're still encounters today in that area. So that's my

1462
01:25:51.800 --> 01:25:52.439
favorite ones.

1463
01:25:52.520 --> 01:25:56.640
If you look up you know, Bigfoot Quest magazines, Mount

1464
01:25:56.640 --> 01:25:58.920
Saint Helen and then if you have to put ray

1465
01:25:58.960 --> 01:26:01.720
Harwid and then all come up and I don't make

1466
01:26:01.760 --> 01:26:04.840
any profit on them for the most part, unless it's

1467
01:26:04.840 --> 01:26:06.640
on kindle ate, I get.

1468
01:26:06.439 --> 01:26:07.520
Like thirty cents.

1469
01:26:07.560 --> 01:26:13.000
But the paperback one's my favorite format, and they're more

1470
01:26:13.119 --> 01:26:16.319
like readers digest because they're like thick and they're six

1471
01:26:16.399 --> 01:26:19.920
by nine. But the thing about it is is it's

1472
01:26:20.000 --> 01:26:22.359
only three dollars and eighty seven cents, and that's what

1473
01:26:22.399 --> 01:26:25.399
they charge to make it. So I just wanted to

1474
01:26:25.399 --> 01:26:28.680
be affordable so people can get the information. And then

1475
01:26:29.000 --> 01:26:33.199
I do another one called Journal of Sasquatch Archaeology. And

1476
01:26:33.239 --> 01:26:37.920
if you're interested, like in the artifactual part, like the

1477
01:26:37.920 --> 01:26:42.039
foot cast, the hand casts, the butt patent casts, that

1478
01:26:42.159 --> 01:26:45.239
sort of thing, I sort of those are kind of

1479
01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:49.039
more condensed into that realm. And then there's you know,

1480
01:26:49.119 --> 01:26:53.640
I just worked with doctor Meldrum on one. I don't

1481
01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:58.000
want to overstate my association with him or anything, but

1482
01:26:58.720 --> 01:27:04.079
he had been Annie. He's been to China to study

1483
01:27:04.159 --> 01:27:08.079
the YearIn, he's been to Russia to study the Almisty,

1484
01:27:08.159 --> 01:27:11.239
and he went you know with Ron Moore Head and

1485
01:27:11.439 --> 01:27:14.600
John Bender Nagel and the Chinese one, I thought it

1486
01:27:14.720 --> 01:27:17.960
was really interesting. The Russian one was kind of a

1487
01:27:18.600 --> 01:27:21.399
nothing burger because you know, there was Zana that was

1488
01:27:21.399 --> 01:27:25.000
supposed to be the Russian almosty that married into human society,

1489
01:27:25.600 --> 01:27:28.039
and he said that was just that was actually an

1490
01:27:28.119 --> 01:27:32.239
African American, not American, but African Russian lady, and it

1491
01:27:32.319 --> 01:27:34.560
was just so rare that they thought she was an.

1492
01:27:34.439 --> 01:27:39.520
Almisty, according to doctor Melner. But the Chinese one is

1493
01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:40.520
really detailed.

1494
01:27:40.560 --> 01:27:43.520
I mean they have the same They found casts there

1495
01:27:43.600 --> 01:27:46.439
that have the mid tarsal break and the short toes structure,

1496
01:27:46.720 --> 01:27:50.640
and those toes are really long, but only nubs stick out,

1497
01:27:50.720 --> 01:27:52.319
but the bones go all the way to the mid

1498
01:27:52.359 --> 01:27:56.560
tarsal break for the toes, so it has elongate toes,

1499
01:27:56.960 --> 01:27:58.880
but you just see the little stubs at the end

1500
01:27:59.800 --> 01:28:03.119
and then anyway so that it goes through you know,

1501
01:28:03.199 --> 01:28:06.399
all the Chinese professors that have been studying it and

1502
01:28:06.439 --> 01:28:10.039
that are famous in that area, and you know it

1503
01:28:10.079 --> 01:28:13.279
talks about them stealing fruit and living in.

1504
01:28:13.239 --> 01:28:15.600
The mountains and everything. So I really like that one.

1505
01:28:16.039 --> 01:28:18.319
Like I said, they're more like small books than they

1506
01:28:18.359 --> 01:28:21.920
are magazines at this point, because I went down from magazines,

1507
01:28:22.479 --> 01:28:24.800
you know, large magazine size of eight and a half

1508
01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:29.560
by eleven, you know, which irregular book quality. But then

1509
01:28:29.600 --> 01:28:32.760
I went back down to six by nine I think

1510
01:28:32.760 --> 01:28:35.319
it was Ron Moorehead actually thought that was a good idea.

1511
01:28:35.359 --> 01:28:38.000
So because he was I was working with him on

1512
01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:42.039
one about you know, the Sasquatch auditory, things like the

1513
01:28:42.039 --> 01:28:43.800
Samurai sounds and whatnot.

1514
01:28:43.439 --> 01:28:46.720
Of Sierra sounds. So anyway, so I started going six

1515
01:28:46.800 --> 01:28:48.520
by nine. So they look like kind of like a

1516
01:28:48.560 --> 01:28:50.920
thick version of Readers Digest at this point.

1517
01:28:51.880 --> 01:28:54.000
Yeah, no, that's cool. I like that, and you know,

1518
01:28:54.119 --> 01:28:57.640
old school Readers Digest. But I mean, I think maybe

1519
01:28:57.640 --> 01:29:01.359
we'll have to have enough date in the future sometime

1520
01:29:01.479 --> 01:29:03.520
from you and see how things are going. It seems

1521
01:29:03.520 --> 01:29:06.199
like you're involved with a lot of cool stuff. But dude,

1522
01:29:06.399 --> 01:29:08.800
thank you. Is there a way besides this, you know,

1523
01:29:08.840 --> 01:29:11.359
if people want to reach out to you and maybe

1524
01:29:11.399 --> 01:29:14.439
they're like, oh yeah, I saw a bigfoot using tools too,

1525
01:29:14.600 --> 01:29:16.399
or is there any way that they can reach out

1526
01:29:16.439 --> 01:29:16.600
to you.

1527
01:29:17.520 --> 01:29:19.000
Yeah, that'd be great. I have.

1528
01:29:19.159 --> 01:29:22.680
I'm kicked off Facebook right now periodically, I do, you know,

1529
01:29:22.800 --> 01:29:26.359
like everyone else Facebook jail as they say, but the

1530
01:29:26.359 --> 01:29:29.720
big Foot Quest magazine. But you know, Thomas Seward, he's

1531
01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:32.079
actually helping me out with that now because I get

1532
01:29:32.079 --> 01:29:34.800
cough kicked off so much. So he's he's kind of

1533
01:29:34.840 --> 01:29:38.119
run it. So big Foot Quest Magazine on YouTube and

1534
01:29:38.479 --> 01:29:44.159
not YouTube, big Foot Quest Magazine on Facebook group Bigfoot

1535
01:29:44.239 --> 01:29:48.560
Quest Magazine Group. And then I have a YouTube channel

1536
01:29:48.600 --> 01:29:51.399
that kind of just faded away called the Bigfoot Show

1537
01:29:52.079 --> 01:29:57.000
on YouTube, which I mostly my horseback searching for bigfoot stuff.

1538
01:29:57.800 --> 01:29:59.560
And then one thing I was going to tell you

1539
01:29:59.600 --> 01:30:01.640
too real quick. I'll just make a quick note and

1540
01:30:01.680 --> 01:30:05.279
maybe talk about it next time, is my main goal,

1541
01:30:05.640 --> 01:30:10.399
and this was very unpopular among the bigfoot community was

1542
01:30:10.560 --> 01:30:15.000
I went to horse school to learn roping and I

1543
01:30:15.039 --> 01:30:17.319
got a roping saddle, which is a little bit different

1544
01:30:17.359 --> 01:30:21.800
than the regular trail saddle because there's apparatus.

1545
01:30:21.119 --> 01:30:23.199
For you know, your your rope and whatnot.

1546
01:30:24.079 --> 01:30:26.960
So anyway, I took lessons in roping and I was

1547
01:30:27.000 --> 01:30:31.880
going to rodeo style rope a sasquatch. The reason being

1548
01:30:32.479 --> 01:30:40.119
in California, the Spaniard, the Spanish cowboys would cabulare cabureras, cabrioleros,

1549
01:30:40.119 --> 01:30:42.680
I can't remember how to say that, but would rope

1550
01:30:42.760 --> 01:30:47.039
grizzly bears and sell them, sell them to zoos. And

1551
01:30:47.079 --> 01:30:51.000
then like the cattleman started, you know, doing the same thing.

1552
01:30:51.039 --> 01:30:53.159
They would rope grizzlies, and you know they can make

1553
01:30:53.199 --> 01:30:55.840
extra money sell them to zoos. So I thought, if

1554
01:30:55.840 --> 01:30:58.600
you can rope a grizzly bear, you could probably rope

1555
01:30:58.600 --> 01:31:01.239
a a sasquatch. So anyone i'd told her, I thought

1556
01:31:01.279 --> 01:31:03.800
I would talk about that. They think I was completely

1557
01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:08.239
insane or stupid. You know, you're either insane or stupid,

1558
01:31:08.279 --> 01:31:12.119
but there's no there's no other explanation. Then I thought,

1559
01:31:12.159 --> 01:31:14.039
you know, Patterson and Gimblin.

1560
01:31:13.760 --> 01:31:15.239
Were both rodeo cowboys.

1561
01:31:15.520 --> 01:31:18.319
They were on their horses when they saw the sasquatch.

1562
01:31:18.920 --> 01:31:21.079
So that's where I started thinking about it. And then

1563
01:31:21.359 --> 01:31:24.960
Paul Freeman did some of his research on horseback. Ron

1564
01:31:25.000 --> 01:31:28.800
Moorehead got to Sierra Sand's location on horseback, and I

1565
01:31:28.840 --> 01:31:32.840
thought the horses might attract the saucequatch. You know, maybe

1566
01:31:32.840 --> 01:31:35.119
they're curious about it, or I think it's something to

1567
01:31:35.119 --> 01:31:38.319
eat and they're stalking it or whatever. But I thought,

1568
01:31:38.359 --> 01:31:40.920
if they're stalking my horse and I can get close,

1569
01:31:41.000 --> 01:31:42.960
I could last soom. And I wondered why I didn't

1570
01:31:43.000 --> 01:31:46.359
Gimblin last sue it or Patterson, And then I was

1571
01:31:46.399 --> 01:31:49.880
talking a friend of Gimblin's. I got to meet Bob Gimlin,

1572
01:31:50.399 --> 01:31:52.279
and I was talking to a friend of his. He says, Man,

1573
01:31:52.720 --> 01:31:55.680
the reason he didn't is he isn't he wasn't stupid.

1574
01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:58.319
He says. If you ever rope one of those things, man,

1575
01:31:58.359 --> 01:31:59.239
you're roping death.

1576
01:31:59.399 --> 01:31:59.520
Man.

1577
01:31:59.560 --> 01:32:02.119
He's going to rip you apart. And then so I

1578
01:32:02.159 --> 01:32:05.359
got that enough where I backed off on the idea.

1579
01:32:06.000 --> 01:32:09.279
Probably wise, Yeah, but anyway, sorry, I got on a tangent. Hey,

1580
01:32:09.920 --> 01:32:12.319
I think that's worth knowing as well, and I'm glad

1581
01:32:12.359 --> 01:32:15.600
that you you stepped away from the idea. But yeah, Ray,

1582
01:32:15.720 --> 01:32:19.159
I mean, you're a guy who's who's got a lot

1583
01:32:19.479 --> 01:32:22.000
going on over the years, a lot of really cool

1584
01:32:22.760 --> 01:32:25.520
a lot of a lot of knowledge. But yeah, thank

1585
01:32:25.560 --> 01:32:27.920
you so much for coming on the show. We will

1586
01:32:28.039 --> 01:32:30.640
definitely be in touch and I appreciate you hanging out

1587
01:32:30.680 --> 01:32:31.239
with us tonight.

1588
01:32:32.079 --> 01:32:35.079
Okay, well, thanks for your patience on me, because you know,

1589
01:32:35.920 --> 01:32:37.520
you know, when you retire, you don't talk.

1590
01:32:37.399 --> 01:32:39.199
To a lot of people, see, kind of lose your

1591
01:32:39.239 --> 01:32:40.199
social edge.

1592
01:32:40.680 --> 01:32:41.840
It it's a good time.

1593
01:32:41.920 --> 01:32:42.119
Man.

1594
01:32:42.399 --> 01:32:44.439
If there's anything I can ever do to help, I

1595
01:32:44.439 --> 01:32:47.000
don't be afraid to reach out. But thank you, oh

1596
01:32:47.079 --> 01:32:47.960
you have already.

1597
01:32:48.000 --> 01:32:50.159
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it. You have a

1598
01:32:50.159 --> 01:32:53.279
good day. Then you got it? Okay, goodbye bye.

1599
01:32:53.720 --> 01:32:55.520
Just wanted to take a few minutes to say thank

1600
01:32:55.560 --> 01:32:59.159
you to you allan listeners for listening to the podcast.

1601
01:33:00.079 --> 01:33:02.840
Please take a minute to help out the show by

1602
01:33:03.000 --> 01:33:06.479
subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so

1603
01:33:06.520 --> 01:33:10.039
you don't miss any notifications, and share the episode on

1604
01:33:10.079 --> 01:33:13.079
YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us

1605
01:33:13.119 --> 01:33:16.319
on a podcast, thank you so much, make sure that

1606
01:33:16.359 --> 01:33:20.600
you're subscribed, share the show with a friend. Really, it's

1607
01:33:20.600 --> 01:33:23.800
all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've

1608
01:33:23.840 --> 01:33:26.680
had a Bigfoot encounter related to the following or know

1609
01:33:26.880 --> 01:33:30.960
someone who has, please reach out to me at Bigfoot

1610
01:33:31.000 --> 01:33:34.439
Society at gmail dot com or pass on my email.

1611
01:33:35.239 --> 01:33:40.039
Here's the list. The Subtle Lake area of Oregon, Rainbow, Oregon,

1612
01:33:40.399 --> 01:33:45.720
McKinsey Bridge area, Sweet Home, pretty much that entire area,

1613
01:33:46.279 --> 01:33:49.560
the north part. If you get what I mean, I'll

1614
01:33:49.560 --> 01:33:53.039
see you back next time. Listeners. SASA Summerfest this year

1615
01:33:53.439 --> 01:33:56.279
July eleventh through the twelfth. It's going to be fantastic.

1616
01:33:57.359 --> 01:34:03.159
July eleventh through twelfth in Greenwaters Park, Okrage, Oregon, and listeners,

1617
01:34:03.159 --> 01:34:05.760
if you're going to go You can get a two

1618
01:34:05.800 --> 01:34:08.640
day ticket for the cost of one if you use

1619
01:34:08.720 --> 01:34:14.680
the code b f S like Bigfoot Society but BFS

1620
01:34:15.039 --> 01:34:18.199
and it'll get used some off your cost. Priscilla wasn't

1621
01:34:18.239 --> 01:34:21.880
nice enough to provide that for my listeners, So there

1622
01:34:21.920 --> 01:34:23.520
you go. I look forward to seeing you there, so

1623
01:34:23.560 --> 01:34:26.880
make sure you head over to www dot Sasquatch Summerfest

1624
01:34:27.000 --> 01:34:29.199
dot com and pick up your tickets today