7-FOOT FEMALE BIGFOOT CONFRONTS WITNESS IN ARIZONA CANYON

0:00 You're listening to Big for Society and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring you first hand encounters from people who say they've seen something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to quiet farms and crowded highways. The stories come from everywhere, and each one leaves us with more questions than answers. These are the voices of the people who've lived it. To settle in, because today you'll hear another account that just might change the way you see the woods forever. So stay with us. Please keep Jeremiah in your prayers as he continues his fight against cancer. For more updates about his medical journey, please go to the carring Bridge link in the show notes. Thank you all right, Big for Society. You've got the privilege of talking to Carl's up today. Carl, welcome to the show. Of want to have you on for a long time, and thankfully it was able to finally happen. I think you actually reached out to me. I was like, oh, yeah, totally, Carl's on the list, let's make it happen. How are you doing today, sir?

1:02 I am doing very well, Thank you, thank you, thanks for having me on. Absolutely a little bit of information about Carl, and we'll get more into this as well, but definitely want to point out, you know, Carl is a bigfoot investigator total of about eighteen years and so many experiences along the way. And I was looking through your sign up sheet that you filled out, and I have a really this is just a question for me. It's kind of a weird one based on what you put. So what is your connection to Bigfoot Encounters dot com? Because I love that website so much. I just think to were. It so back in let's say it would be about twenty ten, we actually had a we had formed a group of independent researchers which also included MK Davis and many others which also include did Bobby Short And so Bobby was in the in our group and in our discussions online discussions, and and when when she sadly passed away, the you know, her grandson ran the website for a long time at least, you know, keeping it on online.

2:25 And then after a while he decided that he was you know, he didn't want to do that anymore. And I didn't want to see all of that information go away, because I know it's a great resource, even though you know, the website was created probably in the early nineties and it's very aged. I've tried a couple of times, based on my availability, which is pretty slim, to you know, refactor the website and get it to more modern and you know, have a little better searchability and so forth. But it's over thirty five hundred pages of just incredible information of Bobby's work. And then and then, of course, a lot of her life's work is now you know, in the book The Facto Sasquatch Volume one and two that's been published by Hangar One Publishing, so that's available online as well. And she was just an incredible, lovely person and I'm just trying to honor her.

3:32 That's incredible, man. I'd always want to say just thank you to whoever kept that website running, and I had no idea it was you, So I just thank you so much because that is an incredible wealth of information. And I mean, I just can't imagine it's that website and Oregon Bigfoot dot com. If that one ever goes down to we're in trouble too, my goodness, Bigfoot encounters I listen, if you've never gone to a big Foot Encounters dot com, it is an incredible wealth of information you cannot get anywhere else and just the stories and accounts on there are so cool. So are you still getting people that reach out to that website and be like, hey, you gotta share like I've always wanted that?

4:17 I would? I would like. I have yet to figure out how to redirect the emails to that website to my own personal website so I can track those. Otherwise I have to go through I have to jump through hoops to get in there and read those, so I don't get in there very often unfortunately. But wow, that would be that would be a wild adventure to figure that out. But did you did your group have a name at all? Carl? No, nope, No, We're just it was just us. But boy, we had Steve Summer was the ringleader of that, and he has unfortunately passed on as well. But uh uh and uh, you know, Sybylla Orwin was in our group, and yeah, so we had a lot of key names that uh you know went through that, including Sharon Day was in there as well, and she runs ghost Hunting Theories dot com, which actually hosts a lot of my research blogs that I wrote some years ago when I was in Long Island and in Chicago area.

5:25 Wow, okay, yeah, I mean that's just it's a fine fascinating group of individuals that you guys put togethers kind of like in a an Avengers type deal. We also had Sandy Cells in our group, you know, and she and her husband Mike had a clan of them living on their farm in North Texas. And the researchers that were doing the had been doing the research there were were a part of our group as well, so Buddy britt Ken, Marvel uh and and you know, so there was always it. I learned so much from them because of all of the different experiments that they did and experiences they had on the Cells farm. And of course since then, i've actually I actually have all the all the casts from from the Cell site that we're actually you know, Sandy gave those to me to safe keep. And sadly Sandy has now passed away as well as Mike preceding her. But but we are trying to keep there all that research material alive and I'm archive archiving a lot of that as well, so you know, the physical and digital archives. But there is going to be a documentary coming out that should be later this year.

6:56 I'm actually doing narration of that as well as probably having a segment in that. But it's going to completely focus on the cell site and the high strangeness that occurred there over the years. But it was, it's it's going to be called the Sometime Place. And Chris Reinhert is producing that. Oh Chris, such a great dude. That's that's the perfect guy to have involved with that. My goodness, thank you for thank you for answering that question. I loved a nerd out on. Well. I guess you could say, what was that probably early two thousand's big Foot history. When you guys are doing your group, what would you say?

7:43 Yeah, it was it was pretty much the two thousand and eight two thousand and nine. I think we kind of formed that group, and I was always honored to be brought into that group, and certainly it helped me in all of the research and experiences I was having and really allowed me to grow and at least get a expand my mind on the topic even more so. Gotcha, gotcha, very very cool stuff. That's that's me. Ne're now a little bit there. And I always like talking to you know, I love talking to Henry Faranzoni back in the day and he's more in the nineties. But such big for history is so cool to me. So was there a time, Carl where you had an experience and it just it made it cemented in your mind that Okay, these things are one hundred percent real and it really kicked things off for you.

8:49 Oh well, to kick things off, that was going back to the fall of twenty two thousand and eight, and I took my both my kids and my nephew up to the mountains to camp. And you know, by this time I had already been on the at you know, at the end of July of two thousand and eight, I went on the Bigfoot expedition that the BFO was hosting, and actually it was being run by Matt Moneymaker, and so that was an experience. But the we went up to that same you know that the very first night of the expedition, Matt did a call from this ridge line between two canyons and and within seconds there was a return howl from the north A few seconds after that one from the northwest, and then and then about seven seconds after that another one from the Southwest, and it was at that moment, and thank god I had a recorder going at that time because I love going back and listening to that because that was actually the moment I was like, I need to figure out exactly what's going on here? Now. Rewind when I was a kid in nineteen sixty eight, my dad had a subscription to Argacy magazine. And in February of sixty eight, there was an addition that that I read on the front cover.

10:19 It said California is Abominable Snowman and had still pictures from the Patterson Gimblin film. And I remember I read that that copy of the that edition of the magazine cover to cover multiple times. I always look forward to Argacy Magazine. That was a great thing. But the uh and you know, and over and I still have that copy of the magazine, by the way. So but you know, you know, fast forward and in the you know, in the mid seventies you had the in Search of and with Leonard Nimoy, and you know that always intrigued me and so forth. But you know, the jury was kind of out. You know, here I am, I'm out in the woods and and I'm like, okay, I'm experiencing it firsthand.

11:07 You know. Plus over the decades, I've always I've been a hiker camper in very remote areas of Arizona, and you know, and now I think back on some of Sasquatch's behavior and I'm like, I'm like, oh, I absolutely experienced some of that, including a howl that that was very like the Ohio howl in nineteen eighty two up on the Mogion Rim here in Arizona, and it was, you know, so fast forward here i am into you know, fall of two thousand and eight October, and I'm like, I'm you know, taking the kids up there to kind of show them the ropes or show them what I've learned so far in the last several months. And I had I had created some weather proof remote recorders that I could hang up in a tree, and so I had about six of those. And so during the day, the kids and I went out hiking and hiking and we you know, I've picked some good areas to hang them up in, and I showed them, you know, an area that I was at in, you know, earlier that year, and they, you know, but we went back to camp, we you know, cook some dinner. We actually watched a movie in the in the car on the car DVD, and and then you know, and then went out, like about ten o'clock out to that area where we had

12:38 been with the BFO expedition and the you know, so here we are out there. My daughter wasn't feeling that great, so my son said, you know, I'll stay in the car with her, and I just went out with my twelve year old nephew and we're out you know, on the pre preface on this edge of the canyon. And we went, you know, and there was a big old dead tree there. So I went up there and I knocked on it twice, and from almost immediately you know, but probably sounding like about a quarter mile away, this whoop comes back just due west of us. And so I did one single knock back and you know, and my nephews whispers to me, was, now, what do we do?

13:30 You know? And I said, we wait. Well, I had a monocular night vision scope that had a you know, ir you know light on the top of it, and he was enjoying looking through that and looking around and there wasn't you know, much going well after about twenty thirty minutes, you know, about twenty minutes, I knocked again, and when I did that, the whoop came and it was almost at our level, but across the just straight across the canyon, so it was right there. And and my nephew's like, are you going to knock back again? And I said, I said, it knows exactly where we are.

14:13 And then it wasn't. Just even a minute later, I started hearing some rocks, you know, rocks scrabble coming down into the canyon on the other side of the canyon. And then I could hear something coming up our side of the canyon. And and then my nephew started seeing something leaning out from the leaning out from the brush below us on the slope going down into the canyon. And it kept leaning out and it would duck back in, and you know, and I saw it through the scope right and you know, it wasn't as you know, it was a good distance away, I'll say, you know, probably eighty one hundred at least one hundred feet away and down the slop, and eventually I started hearing it coming up the hill closer to us, and then it all got silent, and then I really didn't know what to do about that and when and then I got this great idea because when we were out there earlier, there was an area off of that side of the canyon there where there was really no vegetation. Otherwise there's a lot of thick lower brush and a lot of pine trees and so forth, but there was an area that's probably thirty feet wide that there was really no little vegetation going down all the way down into the creek bed at the bottom. And I told my nephew, I said,

15:47 we're going to walk back towards the car. And I said, and when I tell you to stop, just stop. And I said, and I'll listen to see if it's because I knew that they liked to or that it could be paralleling us. Right. So I we start walking back towards the car as if nothing, you know, as if we didn't have a care in the world. And then I said stop. And then I heard one extra footfall coming from the and I said, I was like, okay, it's following us, right, So I told him, I said, okay, when we get to that that opening where there's no vegetation, I said, if I hear something in there, I'll just tell you now, and you spin around and look through the night vision scope and he goes, okay, all right, all right, uncle Carl, you know. So I get we start walking another distance, and in that once we were in front of that area, I hear just a twig snap, and I said now and he spins around and I said, I said, And he just goes, here's this twelve year old his total big footing time and at night fifty two minutes right as a class A sighting. And he he spins around and he says, yep, there it is. I said, what's it doing. He goes looking at me, and I said, give me the scope because I had a sighting.

17:20 Right. So by the time I got the scope up to my eyeball, and it was taking one last step to get behind a tree, and it was apparent it was a it was a female based on the left profile of her left breast as she took that final step and then she went behind this tree and then ended up putting her hand on the side of the tree, so her hand and it was visible all the way from her elbow to her fingertips and and where she was hanging on to the tree. A light breeze, and there was a slight magnification on that night vision scope I have, and the light breeze, you could see the hair just gently moving in the you know, moving in that breeze off of that was hanging off of her forearm, the hair on her hand, little less hair, shorter hairs on the hand. Fingernails were you know, we're just kind of cracked and broken rough. But I always tell everybody the fingers were like the size of ballpark franks. And she had allD that hand on the side of the tree long enough that we actually passed the scope back and forth several times. It was about three minutes, so if you can imagine the amount of detail I remember seeing.

18:52 And of course, you know, sadly, I wish I had had a recorder on that night vision scope, but it was just a you know, entry level unit, but the you know. And then after after about three minutes, she took her hand off that tree, and I could hear a couple of crunches, but I couldn't we couldn't see her anymore. So I actually sat down with my nephew and I tried talking. I picked up a couple of rocks, I clacked some rocks and and uh, and there was no response, right, But then I started hearing other sounds up the hillside, you know that was above us, and other and I then I started getting a little nervous because I, you know, here we are sitting in pitch black darkness, and I got my twelve year old nephew and my sister in law would never forgive me if I had to come back and say he got eaten, so knowing that they're omnivores at yeah, yeah, So so we ended up heading back to the car. When I got back to the car, he uncorked like a champagne bottle, just like, oh my gosh, oh my god. You know he's and he's recounts. I said, what did you see when you turned right around? And he said, and he said, now, oddly enough, he was looking like more focused on the face right because I only could see a profile, but he was looking right at the face. And he said, when I when I looked, when I got the scope

20:23 up to my eye, he goes, he goes. It went and this total shocked look on its face. It rotated its body at the waist and looked down the hill behind it and then and then turned back and was looking at him. And that's when you know about the time when he said, yep, there it is. And then and then when I said what's it doing, and he said looking at me? And by that time it had rotated back and was looking at him. And then by the time I got the scope up to my eye, it was it just one step, you know, uh of when I saw her her. But I later went back to that tree and I measured the reason why it hung on to the tree so long was because the slope of the of the hillside was so steep in that area. If she didn't hang on to the tree, she couldn't have stood straight. She would have fallen backwards.

21:19 So she had to hang on to that tree. And then, of course, and I think she thought she was completely hidden, didn't realize your arm was visible, but the h and I measured that where the hand was on the tree was and there was no hair left on the tree bark, and just wanted to call that out, but it was sixty nine inches is where her hand was resting on the tree. So if you're you know, if it was one of us standing there right, we would probably you know, put our hand at the shoulder level or maybe even a little lower in order to hold onto that tree.

22:00 Wouldn't be putting your hand way up above your head, you know, to hang to hold on, so it would you know, you're trying to support your weight. And so I estimated she was probably between seven four and seven seven somewhere in there was my best gut. My goodness, how did that did that send your Was it your nephew on a whole big footing life adventure? Well you would think so, But after he got to thinking about it a little bit, he was like, you know that that was pretty big, and I'm not sure I want to really get out in the woods with these things. So I think he currently restricts himself to just doing some day hikes in the desert down near Phoenix.

22:57 So that's all right, that's all right. So you mentioned being on some Arizona BFL expeditions. Just this is really out of left field. Did you ever go on any New Mexico ones. I was scheduled to go on one and I ended up having a work conflict, so I ended up not going on that, but a lot of my equipment went on that expedition. But I have been into New Mexico though, and done research on my own as well up near Redeal. So that's actually there's one of my favorite accounts is was documented on a BFL expedition in that area in New Mexico. At least that's what it says in the post, and it's about a portal experience that a guy had up in the Oakridge, Oregon area. Always wanted to try to talk to someone who knew some more info because that that gentleman has unfortunately passed away. That his name was Larry Kellum. I believe that had the experience, but maybe someday you never know. You never know if you just never first asked the question, kind of like with the big foot encounters. But you know, man, that that is first off, hats off for giving the thermal to your nephew and not being like, you know what, I

24:28 got the thermal the whole like, that's that's pretty cool that you did that, So good job there. Do you think is that the closest view that you've had of a big foot or do you think there's been anything? No? Oh, closer. So that was that distance from where we were standing to the tree with the where hand was was about thirty feet. So, like I said, with the night vision, having a little bit of a you know ample, you know, a little magnification on it, it was, like I said, I could see the cracks and the fingernails, you know. It was it was quite detailed. But the closest sighting I've had, well, closest daytime sighting I had was about one hundred and twenty feet away, and it was was that was remarkable. The closest siding I had was about fourteen inches twelve to fourteen inches somewhere in there.

25:32 As I was sleeping, it was in the back of my Yukon Excel. It was looking in the window, and so it was this face was right at the window, and as as the green light from my fitbit kind of lit up the interior of the cab, the it backed away, its face kind of dissipated into the darkness. But to be fair, before I climbed in to go sleep, I actually paused because all night I could feel we're I was being watched from my friend and I were being watched around the campsite from the hillside. And so I before I climbed in, I just said in English out loud, you know, I would love it if you could come down here and put a handprint on my car.

26:28 And I climbed in and I went to sleep. Well there at is three am. I wake up and you know, as I moved my wrist, it lights up and here's this face right at the window and that backs away and I it was just so close. It was right up close and did not have its mouth open. Everybody always asks me about the teeth or whatever, but it's just looking in the window. And when five fifteen am was pre I ended up going back to sleep. Five fifteen as a pre d on light, I wake up and here's this handprint right where the face had been on the window. So it was this handprint. And the handprint was fourteen inches from the tip of the pinky down to the base of the thumb.

27:19 So it's that's remarkable. And you could see and you could actually see dermal ridges structure, you know, in the handprint as well. But the odd thing was is that the handprint was only visible because on the outside of the car, I really couldn't see the handprint. But when it put its hand on the outside of the window, the probably the oils in its hand left an insulating property because it had gotten pretty cold that night, so there was condensation inside the car from me sleeping, and it was that condensation that revealed the print. At the same time, same morning, you know, my friend comes over. He's looking at it.

28:09 He's just like, wow, wow, I can't believe that. I can't believe that. And then I said, well, because he was sleeping in his vehicle, I said, did you you know have any He goes, no, no, I didn't have any. So he went over and looked at his car, right in the center of his hood. But this one was in dust. Is a handprint right in the middle of his hood. And this one was eleven inches from the tip of the pinky down to the base of the thumb. And that one was interesting because since it was in dust, you could actually see wisps of hair off the side of the hand and off of the wrist as well. That made impressions in the dust. Plus the other interesting thing was on his print, you could really see how the you know, like the cup in the middle of your hand. You could you could see where there was less, you know, you could still see dermal ridges and everything else.

29:04 But in the cup of the hand it was less and it's very much similar to our hand, you know, as far as structure. So I found that interesting. That's amazing. Was that in Arizona as well? And that was in Arizona? Yeah, okay, not far from Forest Lakes, Arizona, Yep, gotcha. So I know that that must have been such a quick sighting when it was up to your you know, just inches away. But some some witnesses will describe what they've They'll they'll say, man, it looks more like a monkey, or it looks more human, or maybe a mixture. In those quick seconds, did you get a feeling as to do you remember any features of what you were looking at or or does it make you lean in a certain way of what we might be dealing with?

29:56 They are they are like us, right, they are definitely in the Homo genius. And there is no doubt in my mind. In the face, I mean, if you took my face and made it, you know, kind of zoomed in and made it a lot bigger, and put a little bit of extra hair about here up to here, and it was very very human like, but very broad, and then you know, small changes. The nose was different, the eyes were larger, and like I said, it was just that fleeting moment. But you know, I'll just never forget as it backed the way and it just dissolved into the darkness, you know. But you know, most people would have been screaming or something, right, you know. Me, I'm propping up on my elbow and I'm looking out the window trying to see any movement in the starlight between trees or anything like that. But I didn't see anything.

31:02 Were there any tracks around the vehicles as well? There was a lot of very small grasses and so forth, and it really wasn't good for leaving any tracks. But and the same thing around my friend's car as well. But you know, we were camped front on the edge of this meadow. If now, if I had parked a little closer, maybe to where the fire pit was, where we had scraped all the dust away and stuff, we would have, you know, seen that that print that was my twelfth siding was at an area on the Mogion Rim. But that individual same thing. I'm sleeping in the back of the car and I hear, you know, some like one of the tin cups or something at the kitchen table set out. Now, you know, could have been anything clanking it right, But it was about two thirty three and the two fifty, I think, if I recall my my notes, but the two fifty am I hear this clank, right, metallic clank in the in the kitchen camp. And so I wake up, you know, and I look out into the camp and I don't see anything moving outside, you know, the vehicle, and I keep looking. I keep watching to see if I any shadow movement or any any movement through there. And then for some reason, I and the

32:34 moon was actually shining from the It was a full moon that night, and so it was still, you know, on its way to go set still, and for whatever reason, I decided I looked out the opposite side of my vehicle and I looked out the window on that side, and and here, probably twenty five feet away, there's one there's a big foot standing there, totally silhouetted in the moonlight among the trees. Now it was far enough away, and there was a little bit of brush and everything that you know. Initially, when I looked, I thought, wait, is that a tree or you know, but then it actually turned and it walked to its right, so to my left and stepped two three feet and you know, two three steps off and it was into the deeper woods.

33:32 I couldn't see it anymore. So I wake up about six am. I get out of the car and now I had gone to bed about eleven pm. Uh, And so there was my shoe print on the ground in the kitchen and it was, you know, the prints my tracks heading towards my vehicle, right and here six am, here's this print that actually bisects my shoe print that I had left at eleven pm, you know. And so that I stuck a campture over the top of it. It was in very fine dust, so it really wasn't as castable, but it was you know. One my friend woke up, I said, I told him the whole story, and he's just like, oh my gosh, you know, and I've got him I wouldn't say hooked on it, but certainly he's a believer.

34:26 Now, Oh my goodness, I man. One of the weirdest accounts I took over the years was an let's say what I say old timer, and he was telling me about how he says fourteen years old the years in nineteen seventy five and he's walking up on a ridge in Alpine, Arizona, and everything goes quiet, then staticky, then a swirling cloud. Then he sees a tent. Well he says, a ten foot tall bigfoot walk out of the cloud or something, and then he freaks out and books it OUTI there, have you ever heard anything?

35:10 You know? I know, there's we have these experiences and sometimes they're just out of outside the realm of comprehension, right, Or is the area Alpine is that known for anything weird like that? Or Alpine? You know, anywhere along the Mogian Rim there's all kinds of high strangeness, including like Travis Salton's abduction from nineteen seventy five. But in Alpine that's in the White Mountains of Arizona Greer Springerville area, eastern Arizona, and that area itself is if I blindfolded you and I dropped you off there, you might think you were in northern Canada. That's that's the you know, the habitat up there.

35:58 It's incredibly green and there's ferns and you just you'd never believe it was Arizona. But yeah, there's been plenty of sightings and people experiences that I've that I've had up in that area prior to me being introduced. You know, you know, I never considered Bigfoot being in Arizona, you know, as a kid or during any of that time frame, because you know, all they might if, if it does exist, it's probably just in the Pacific Northwest, and you know, and never considered, you know, Arizona. But all this strangeness that I had, like, you know, having what I thought were pine cones falling on my tent overnight, you know, early morning hours. I started hearing you know what sounded like pine cones hitting the tent, and you know, and I just, you know, you know, just ended up writing it off as oh, yeah, there's something up in the tree eating pine cones and they're falling down or whatever.

37:04 But I wake up in the morning and it's just a pile of there was a pile of small rocks that were that were all had slid down the side of the tent and were just piled up on them like rocks. Like what, you know, what was that squirrel doing in the middle of the night with rocks? Oh? Whatever? You know, certainly, But now I look back on some of those experiences I had camping all over Arizona, and I'm like, oh, absolutely, And in fact, I even have a research area here down near the Metro Phoenix area. Actually, I've got two areas that I go to right quite frequently, especially in the wintertime, that definitely have clans that multiple individuals living those in those spaces in the desert.

37:52 Wow. So I'm looking at the map I have and this is off to the side, But I didn't realize the Superstition Mountains are actually down by Phoenix two, aren't they? They certainly are, certainly are. Which that's a weird area from what I've. Heard it really is. You know, there's all kinds of mysteries and history back in there as well, you know, with the Lost Dutchman gold Mine. And there was a gentleman named Revas that had set up a homestead way back in the in those mountains, and you know, the elevation goes is all the way up to about sixty four hundred sixty five hundred up there, and he had planted an entire apple orchard up there, and the apaches left him alone mainly because he knew about you know, there.

38:54 Their traditions, right, is that if someone is crazy, if someone seems to be insane. That means that they're being possessed by a demonic spirit, right, And so every evening before you went to bed at his thing, and especially if he knew or suspected he was being observed, he would strip naked and dance around in the apple orchard up there. And so you know, if you killed somebody who is insane like that, you would release that demon. So that was his way of staying safe up there. Nice. That's wild. Holy mackerel. Yeah, another area, Just curious if you've ever had any activity around there. Have you ever heard of Woods Canyon Lake area?

39:47 Absolutely? In fact, that's where I heard my in nineteen eighty two. That's where I heard that first howl that I just you know, that one was harder to write off. But I had two friends and myself and one friend had a inflatable zodiac boat and we took that and paddled across the lake to the far side and we set up camp on this very far side. There was no one else near us or around us. We did some fishing, caught some trout, cooked some trout, which that's one of the most amazing things. Right when you're out camping, if you fresh fresh fish, right, and we cooked, we went to bed, three guys in a tent. About three am in the morning, something howled just incredibly loud, and you could feel the base in it. Right, And this is nineteen eighty two. There was no such thing as a subwar for to try to experience something like that whatever, but wow, it was just you could feel it in your chest. And the three of us pile out of this tent. Now, of course, at this time, we had you know, I didn't have a flashlight. We didn't have flashlights with We had the Coleman lantern that we had used.

41:11 Of course, turned it off when we went to sleep, but that would have taken too long to try to light it, because here's three terrified guys and trying to figure out what's going on. And you know, our initial discussion was let's just get back, let's go get into the boat and paddle out across the lake in the dark, right. And when we started thinking about the logistics of that, and we were like, oh, you know, what, what could that have been? What could that have been? And you know, we ended up writing it off as maybe a large coyote or maybe a wolf, you know, And at that time, the Mexican gray wolves had not been introduced to Arizona.

41:54 But you know, large Coyote was our, uh know, our go to on that. But when in two thousand and eight before we went up to the I told that story to my son and he said, come on, Dad, in Arizona Bigfoot. I go, I don't know, let's google it, right, and found the BFO website and read through some of the Arizona you know, reports that they had posted out there, And when then I saw a link to the Ohio howl. And when I played that, the hair on my arm stood up because that was the second time in my life that I had heard that howl. Of course, not the last time. It's been a journey.

42:43 Has there been a time where you're out there, you're doing Bigfoot research, something happens and you're like, oh my goodness, we're in too deep this time. I wish we were not here. Or have you always felt kind of in control whenever you've gone out and you've had experiences. Well, it's really interesting. I was nervous initially after, especially after the first sighting, and like I said, you know, I started hearing what sounded like something else coming down the can into the canyon behind us, and you know, and I, you know, and I was worried about the kids and so forth. But I've done a lot of solo hiking and and where you know, I, you know, maybe I'm driving from Phoenix to Flagstaff and I'm just like, oh, just I'll take a detour. You know, I've got a couple hours to kill. I'll just go into my research area and take a look, and so forth. But after my second sighting, where I saw one run daytime up on a ridge line and it was backlit, and it took off and it was so fast and so powerful and so large. When I saw that, I realized that, you know, even at night, when we're you know, when we're kind of night blind, they could have taken me at any given time and they didn't. So, to quote

44:17 Alfred Newman from Mad magazine, why worry, you know, because it's like it's like either I'm not going to be out in the woods at all, or I just I put my faith in them, and it's worked for me so far. That's extremely extremely interesting, Oh, being out there tons of times, have you ever had an experience with something that could be considered infrasound if you know what I'm talking about.

45:00 Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, So my first experience with infrasound was actually in my living room because I was working with m K. Davis on cleaning up audio and speech of a lot of the from a lot of the VHS tapes from the Mike and Sandy cell site in North Texas. So as I as I was working through those, I was doing a lot of cleanup, and I'm sure a lot of people, especially if you go out to m K. Davis's YouTube channel, you probably have heard a few of those and stuff. But that was a lot of my handiwork behind the scenes. But there was one piece of audio where there was there was two individuals talking back and forth, and one was a pretty good one was i'll say, fifty feet from where the you know, where this view HS camera was, and the other one was maybe three hundred feet away, and there was a lot of crickets and frogs or you know, just a lot of night cacophony that was going on, and I was working through and trying to clean it up and drop out some of the auxiliary noises. And the more I worked on that piece of tape, the I just started feeling queasy, and all of a sudden, I just you know, just like lightheaded, and boy, I didn't feel like a

46:32 not in my stomach, and I just and of course I'm wearing you know, noise canceling headsets, and you know, so it's it's, you know, there's I'm not hearing anything else except the audio as I as I ran through it multiple times, you know, I was probably on pass number one hundred and finally I had to stop. I was just I thought I was going to pass out and whatever. I said, you know, I'll eat some dinner and I'll take a break. And it took me a couple hours, two three hours, and then I was like, oh, okay, I'm feeling better. I'll go back to working on that tonight. So kids went to bed when they were a little, you know, much younger, and and then I put the headphones on. I started working on it, and immediately I started feeling strange again. And of course I had the volume cranked up as well, but I started looking through I'm like, what is it about this? Because I had worked on all these other audio clips, no problem whatsoever.

47:33 I get in there and I start looking at this, you know, the spectrum of uh, you know, on the on the audio and down in the low end below twenty hurts. I see this modulation, just this modulation occurring, and it was just it was occurring during the you know, the they were this conversation, you know, where I was trying to clean it up. So I took it and I just kind of edited and cut that piece out of there. And when I did that, I could I was didn't feel strange. I didn't feel sick anymore. And I was like, well, what is it about that? Right?

48:15 And I was like, I was like, well, below twenty hurts, it's infrasound, and it was modulating between sixteen and eighteen and a half hurts somewhere right in there. So of course, you know, infrasound we cannot hear it. But I took it and I bumped it up about eighty hurts, so it brought it into our audible range. And what I heard astonished me because to me, it sounds almost like a digitiido. So I can give an example of just because like, well, like that, but this modulation. And later on I've been working with the Doug haychick on on actually sasquatch legend, meet science too, and the you know, and of course he's the producer of Monster Quest.

49:12 Uh. And and then he his eyes lit up because this audio came off of a two thousand and three recording and and of course he's had some incredible the hum what he calls it. Yes, that has been recorded up at Snow Grove and multiple other areas around the country, as other researchers are like, I've heard the hum. Now, this was an audible hum right initially. But that that piece of audio though, in my opinion, validates everything that occurred at at at the cells site because nobody knew about that two thousand and three. I mean, and of course this piece of audio also could have been even lower.

50:05 But I think that sixteen hertz was the absolute bottom of the of the capture ability of the microphones on the equipment being used. And because that sixteen hertz was a total flat line right, there was no it wasn't up to the sixteen herts. It kind of flat lined right at the bottomed out at the sixteen hertz level. So well that that is extremely interesting. I think I've encountered it once in the field in Oregon on the edge of a meadow. We're sitting in nylon chairs. I just couldn't move out of my chair for like five minutes, and then it was like something snapped its fingers and then I can move and breathe again. It's really weird, dude, that so.

50:54 Strong, so very strange. And that was the second time. I actually my second time was in out on Long Island. I was researching in an area where I had actually found there was a clan living in central Long Island, and I had been exchanging gifts with them for some time. But this one, this one area I was researching, and I hiked way back in there, and on the way back out, it was getting very dark after work, right, I'm actually, you know, hiking in my floorsheims and dress pants, so you know, and traveling for work, you know, I you know, I would go out just you know, whenever I didn't have any work obligations in the evening, and even sometimes after those work obligations, I would head out into the woods at night. And so there for a time I was probably logging about two hundred hours in the woods, you know, every year. And so this time I'm hiking back out of that area, and I hear what sounds like a jogger coming down one of the trails and pitch black darkness, and I don't see any light.

52:16 There's no light from this And as it started getting and I had thermal, and as it started getting closer to me, it suddenly realizes I'm there and dives into this deep brush. So I started, poorly on my part, right annoying it by trying to get a better angle to see where it was in the brush in order to get a good recording of the thermal. And so this went on for probably a good ten minutes of me trying to walk around this edge in order to get an angle where I could see it, and they would move over. You I could see something hot in the brush, and when I walked, I kind of ran to one side. It took off and ran across, you know, across this other deeper brush. Well, as I look back over that direction, I could see it getting behind this very tall vertical brush area and I could, you know, you just see dots of heat right in between all the leaves and brush. And and as I started walking closer towards that area, I was probably still fifty sixty feet away from it, and my rental vehicle was right near me and it and all of a sudden, it just felt like somebody had pulled the plug on me.

53:44 I was disoriented. I seme kind of not in my stomach, and finally I couldn't even stand. I ended up dropping down to one knee and then both knees, and you know, so I've got my hands on the ground and it just feels like this, you know, like fifty cement bags are laid on me, and I barely squeak out the words I'm a friend, and with that the weight lifted off of me, and I turned and I just I waved and I said good night and got in the rental car and I went and I had a beer because I thought, I thought, in that moment, this is it for me. I'm done.

54:34 Wow, it's so wild. There's so many, man, I talked to a lot of people and we are dealing with some weird stuff, man, And it's like there's so many close calls that people have had after trying to initiate contact with whatever it is out there, and just it. The weirdest thing I think is, you know, you get all like you see the physical footprints you see the handprints, you see sometimes evidence of tool working. But then there's the stories where it's like people are affected health wise through infrasound or other ways, and it's like, man, I just hope sometimes, I hope someday we get the answers to why or how this is happening, how a creature can affect humans in such a way, And I hope we get I don't know if we'll ever get the answer to that question, but.

55:40 Yeah, I agree, And you know, it's interesting I did. In twenty thirteen, I actually had I had an episode where I had some missing time. And this was the twenty thirteen BFRO expedition in Arizona, and there we had split up into three groups using BFRO techniques where you know, the groups kind of positioning themselves in an area and call back and forth and in order to you know, get reaction or you know, and the are The group that I was leading was on the furthest away from camp, so the other two were much closer. So by the time we had finished that evening and we didn't really get a lot of responses that night, although where we where my group was out the furthest away. Something did come up towards us and it stopped. And not only that, but it took a huge dump on the only road that came out of our area. And it was you know, so, of course, what what do you think I did with that?

56:55 I collected, of course. It. I collected it, and you know, and it was sent off to the BFRO and they just said it was inconclusive. But it was. It was diarrhea. But there was a lot of oak acorn shells and you know pieces in the which earlier on we had found that something that was standing on a branch was reaching twelve feet above it in order to twist off and acorns off of an oak out of an oak tree. And that was I thought that was pretty conclusive, that that most likely was.

57:39 But they said it was inconclusive, but nothing like a steaming bag of and it was still hot, I mean steaming bag of diarrhea to the bag up. So when they got oh, no, when you got it, it was. Still when I got it. Oh, it was still seeing yeah. So and of course all these newbies that were on the expedition were just like, ooh, leave it, you know, and I'm like, no, are you kidding me? This is good stuff. We get back into camp and uh, of course everybody had gotten back into camp and they're they're doing whoops and they're knocking on trees in and around the campsite. And I get back and I'm like, what are you guys doing, you know? And I was like, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna draw them into camp here.

58:19 I was like, is this what you guys want? You know? And so most everybody else was just sitting around the campfire, and I, you know, I had pulled in and I had left my thermal camera in my car, and the uh I start to you know, I'm you know, I'm kind of listening to everyone's stories of you know, did you guys hear anything when we were out there and so forth, when all of a sudden, right right near the campsite, there was a huge knock, I mean, just capaw on this tree and and it was closer to where one of the participants had parked his vehicle. Well, he jumps up and of course, you know, in the firelight, you know, he can you know, he thinks it's its tree that was right near his truck, and he jumps up and he starts running over to towards his truck, and when he does, the stick comes flying out of the woods lands and bounces off his windshield and he puts on the brakes and he runs back to the to the campfire, you know, and I said, I said, well, I think we've got a visitor. That's what you guys wanted.

59:29 And with that, I was like, I'll go get my thermal. And the woman who was heading up the expedition was like, I'll get my thermal out of my van. So and her van was on the other side of the camp. While I start walking back right towards my truck, and I can see my truck, you know, it's tail lights reflecting in the campfire light. And as I'm walking back towards the truck, suddenly I lose time. And what I'll say is I wake up, and I'm standing in front of this brush where this brush is probably a good six inches in front of my face. Where I walked up to this brush and I'm standing facing it, and I'm just like, like, where am I whatever? And I looked to my left and about one hundred and twenty feet away I see the tailights from my Durango and I'm like, I was like, what the hell just happened?

1:00:29 And as I walk over, I get my thermal and I walk back to the campfire. Well, oddly enough, at this exact same time, the woman who had walked over to her van actually had the same experience. She just woke up, didn't know where she was, and then found her van got the thermal. So we did capture that evening a thermal of something peeking out from a tree that I later recreated the next day during the daytime. It was seven foot seven tall that peeked out around this tree. Another investigator who's actually helping run or is running the expedition this year in Arizona that I'll be participating in. UH, he actually had a security camera set up on his suburban where he had four or six infrared cameras on there with infrared lights, and he is captured at the same time that we captured thermal from that.

1:01:31 From the other side, two individuals you could couldn't really make them out, but from a distance they're they're walking away from our campsite area, and then they turned their head and you can see, you know, the I R light reflecting off their eyes. UH. And you know too, each of them had two eyes, one was shorter, one was taller. But I thought that was just fantastic evidence, you know, and corroborating each other, because you know, here I was on that far side of camp with my thermal, you know, when I captured that, you know, leaning out, and then at the same time, in that same direction, here's two individuals walking away that was captured on video. So, like I said, inconclusive, you know, you know, you couldn't make out details, but certainly when you combine all the experiences and then the strangeness of missing time. Oddly enough, no one else at the campfire had missing time except one person, and he woke up sitting in his chair and was looking at the campfire, and I had the feeling of where am I?

1:02:44 What just happened? So wild? Fascinating, man, what a fascinating group of experiences you've had so far. I have maybe a few more questions at the end, and thank you so much, Carl for spending your time with us today. I always like to talk to individuals with a lot of experience about the a few things. One of them is, let's say you've you've moved to a new area and you're wanting to try to scout to find out where the potential areas to look for Bigfoot would be in this new area you've moved to. What what certain things are you going to do to try to find those areas.

1:03:40 I'm glad you asked me that, because that's really one of my specialties, especially especially as I, you know, travel a lot for work and I'll be in a brand new area and I'm like, I have no idea, you know, where they could be here? What's the you know, you know, what are what are my options of my evenings out right? As I always tell my wife, I was like, you don't have to worry about me being at strip clubs when I'm traveling for work. I'm I'm likely out in the woods with eight hundred pound creatures, you know, so exactly. So, of course, the first thing is you know a food source, right, you know a food source.

1:04:26 Water. Cover. And then I've added a couple x into my formula. There's an area of egress. So if they can get into this area, how do they get out of that area, especially in urban areas? And then and then and then there's there's my fifth dimension in the in the formula, is a safe place kind of like the sometime place that that the clan had at uh at the Cells site in North Texas. So so when you combine all of those things, right, where can they go in order to hide out to make sure that humans aren't going to get to them even if they're in or near the area that has food and water? And then if need be, how do they get out of that area?

1:05:20 Right? I mean it makes sense, right, we would do the same thing if you were a Special Forces, if you're a Navy seal, a ranger, you know, you you know, they're taught these same uh, you know type of techniques, right, how to get out? What's the you know, here's our mission, right, the mission is food or water or maybe even observing us, right, whatever that mission is. And then how do you how do you get in and out of there? And where can we go in order to make sure they don't discover us? Right? So I've used that, I've and that's how I found them in the suburbs of Chicago in the forest preserves.

1:06:00 And I had three from those, yeah. Yeah, so three sightings in the in the forest preserves, and you know one you know, actually all three of them were during the day it was still light out when I went back in there, but one was crossing a railroad track and uh and when I actually saw it moving and where it was crossing from, then I took that and I plugged that into my formula. All Right, why was it going there? You know, where did it come from? You know, and you start doing that kind of analysis, and you know, for I'm a software consultant by trade, I do a lot of data analysis. I've you know, over the decades, I've you know, debugged programs that had eighteen million lines of code, and you know, you try to and you know, I can notice the you know, one thing's not like the other's type of thing.

1:06:57 And that occurs every time I go out into the woods. I'm I'll just put it this way. I'm detail oriented in that aspect. So so when yeah, and that's and that's really I mean, that's how I found them. Also when I was out on Long Island. Now, the last sighting report that the BFO had from Long Island was eighteen ninety nine at Rockaway Beach, which is kind of on the south west corner of the island. And you know, so I was just starting scratched and I spent and a lot of times everybody tells me, they're like, it seems like you just go into the woods and oh there's a sasquattion, go into the woods and oh no, there's hours, hours and hours of homework, research, everything that goes into it, and a lot of you know, do you want to do? You want to see every every log entry that says spent four hours in these woods and didn't find anything, right, you know? I mean, but you know what I ended up doing was on Long Island was looking at paranormal websites. So I started reading some of these ghost hunting groups that were on Long Island. Now, of course, Long Island has a long history going all the way back into the sixteen hundreds, and when I found that there was some quote unquote haunted woods and you can still hear the mournful moans of a mother

1:08:33 who lost her child in sixteen fifty or you know some urban legend like that, right, And they went there to you know, the paranormal group, you know, spent the night in those haunted woods and rocks, you know, rocks were thrown at them, just just materialized from nowhere and were thrown at them, right, I. Read that account. Yeah, yeah, and I said, I said, oh, that's a sasquatch, right, So I narrowed it down into you know, in fact, the one area that I, you know, really researched in was it's called Mount Misery because all going all the way back into the mid sixteen hundreds, as farmers were taking their product over to New Amsterdam, they you know, they would drive past that and they would hear moans and howls from these woods right going all way back in the sixteen fifties. So and that was you know, and I used that same formula of looking at paranormal websites all over Long Island, and I ended up finding two areas that definitely had multiple clans in them. So it was it was very rewarding, even in the summertime when the ticks were very prevalent.

1:10:01 Yeah, gotta love that. That's a really smart idea. I'm going to start doing that last question. So let's say you've got you've got the new area you're going to check out, but you want to try to initiate some form of interaction. I would assume, Okay, how do you recommend going about that? I know there are different ways for people to try to do that. So what I've done and had really great success with, is well, first off, extending one hundred percent trust, right, don't you know, if you think you see one or hear one in area, don't stand there gawking in point or whatever.

1:10:49 Really show that you're a friend, right and trust And because they're likely watching you already as you you're hiking into the specific area or looking around, and you know, the first thing I would do is try to find some structures, you know, or other evidence to know that they're in this area or maybe frequent the area. On Long Island, I found piles of empty water bottles or some of them were filled. You know, I'd come back to that that what I would call a trash pile, but it was really just water bottles and they'd be filled another time. You know, what are they doing whatever? Well, okay, they're they're actually filling water bottles off of the sprinklers at a corporate center nearby. You know, so unlike what we would do, right, But once I knew that they were in this area and frequented and where they were going at least for a water supply, then I started.

1:11:49 I picked a spot and I started putting. I'd put an apple up in a tree and try to make it so it's maybe a little more difficult for something to get at it. But you know, a couple of days apple wasn't touched, and then the apple was gone. Right, Well, it could have been a bird, could have been whatever. Right. This went on for weeks where but I was consistent, right, consistency, trust, those are really things they respect, and you know, and then finally the apple was taken. And then there was a polished rock that was left up in the nook of this tree, right where the apple advents. So I got all excited. I actually took the rock and I went into the office that day. I took a picture of it on my desk. I sent it off to all my researchers in my group, and and and one of them said, said, oh, no, you should put it back where it was. You know, it's like they're they're trying to heal the or where the apple. I said, it seemed like it was a gift whatever. So at lunchtime, I drove back over. I went and I was about to put the rock back exactly where it had been, And then I decided to now you know what, I'm going to put this over here on this broken tree that was maybe twenty feet away. So I set the rock over on that and then I went back to the office. Well, after work, I go back over to my hotel, I get an apple. I head back over to the woods again that you know, and just red

1:13:19 dusk and I get out there and I'm going to put an apple up in the tree. And that little polished rock is no longer on the broken tree stump. It's up where the apple had been where I was just about to place another apple. And I was like, I'm supposed to have that, right. So this went on, little fossils, feathers, you know, other just rock, you know, interesting rocks, all left for me. And one evening in the wintertime, it was probably ten degrees out there was a foot of snow on the ground, and I went out there. I thought, well, they might be hung and it was dark, you know, it was like early January, and I was like, I'm I'll take a couple of apples.

1:14:06 I'll put them out there, you know, because they're probably hungrier. So I'm walking. I parked the car in the parking lot at this corporate center and I started walking in on this trail into the woods, and before, just before I got into the brush area, this huge tree snap, just boom, you know, breaks not even fifty feet away from me, and I stopped dead in my tracks and I just I held up the two apples and I said, these are for you, and I just rolled them up up the trail, went and got back in my rental car, drove back over to the hotel, which is about a quarter mile away, and parked the car. The next morning, i'm you know, I'm car pooling with a couple of associates of mine, and we get out to the parking lot at the hotel there and there's a fossil sitting on top of my rental car, right above the driver's side door. My coworkers are looking. They're like, they're like, what what's that? How did what? How did that get there?

1:15:13 And I and I was like, let's pile in. I'll tell you a story on the way to work. And so up until that point, I was trying to keep my evening proclivities under under wraps. But it was, you know, after that time, they called me the world's most interesting man, but I am not a dose that use spokesperson, but right exactly. Oh my goodness, there's some really good advice listeners can take away from that. But Carl, thank you so much for hanging out with us today, sharing your accounts what you've learned. And I'm sure a lot of listeners can can use this informa and have some some cool things happen as well. But I want to make sure is there anything that you want to make sure that listeners know about that they can ways they can follow you or or you know, read or or watch more about what you're doing, and maybe even a way to contact you as well.

1:16:21 Sure. Sure, So you can always reach me on Facebook all the time. I manage multiple groups on there, so that's always a good way to reach out to me. And then I've also got a lot of my research blogs that I wrote up out on ghost Hunting Theories dot com. So there's a search box there you can just search my name and you'll find that out there. And like you said earlier, Bigfoot Encounters dot com. Although I don't check that email as frequently as I should, but certainly, and you could always reach out to me.

1:17:05 You can drop me an email. It's just Carl dot j dot Sup at gmail dot com. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show again, Carl, and we'll have to stay and touch it to see what comes your way in the future. Have a great rest of your day, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, and it's been a pleasure of being on your show. Have you ever heard all the accounts of bigfoot activity around Oakridge, Oregon and you think to yourself, Man, I would love to get out in those woods and experience it for myself. Well, guess what this year you can.

1:17:46 If this is interesting to you, stay tuned because it's pretty cool. Sasquatch Summer Fest is coming up July tenth through the eleventh, twenty twenty six. It's going to be even better than the previous series. You may know Jason Kenzie from his documentary series Searching for Sasquatch. Well, this year you can not only go to the festival, but you can also sign up for a track deep in the wild forest outside of Oakridge with Jason Kenzie to the Bigfoot spots to look for Bigfoot. There's only eight spots to sign up for this, and yes, this will also be filmed for the next chapter in his documentary series, which is Searching for Sasquatch. This is a once in lifetime deal. It's just it's going to be a wild, wild experience. To get a ticket, head on over to Sasquatch Summerfest dot com and listeners can use the code b SP like Bigfoot Society podcast in order to get a two day pass for the price of a one day pass. Yes, so thanks to Priscilla for giving me that code so that you guys can can get a little help with the cost there. Appreciate that, Priscilla. Before we wrap this episode, I want to say something directly

1:19:18 to a very specific group of listeners. If you're in the military, any branch or forces, and if you've seen something that no one can explain, or if you're a National Park ranger or forestry worker who's been told to stay quiet, or if you're a pilot who's seen something strange down on the ground, or if you're with the FBI a federal agency, or working intelligence and you've stumbled upon something you're not allowed to talk about. And if you're a firefighter, paramedic, or search and rescue responder who's heard screams or found tracks that didn't make sense. If you're in the logging industry, on a remote oil field, or a trucker with government contracts and you've had something happen that you've I never told a soul. And if you're a biologist, a wildlife specialist, or a field researcher under contract who has found evidence you're not allowed to report.

1:20:09 If you're a pastor, a missionary, or someone on a spiritual retreat and you saw something that shook your faith, or if you work in the shadows CIA, NSA or anything with clearance and you've seen what the public hasn't, then I want to talk to you, even if it's anonymous. You can reach me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. The world needs to hear what you've been forced to carry alone. And you're not alone. You've got the story, We've got the mic. See you in the woods. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast. Every encounter we share reminds us that the world is bigger and stranger than we think, and that the truth is often hiding just beyond the tree line. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to abscribe to the channel on YouTube. Hit the bell so you don't miss the next episode, and share this with a friend who's into mysteries, monsters, or the unexplained. And if you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple Podcast, please follow the show there and leave us a five star positive review because all that helps more people discover the show. And remember, if you or someone you know has had a Bigfoot sighting, please I'd love to hear from you, so email me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com and let's start the conversation. If you haven't gotten a chance yet, check out our membership community over at www dot Bigfoot Society podcast dot com and that's where you can hear tomorrow's episode today early in ad free and members only episodes

1:21:41 every week. Also, it's a place to connect with other people that are into the Bigfoot subject as much as you are. Thanks again for following along with the Bigfoot Society until next time, keep your eyes open, trust your gut, and never stop asking what else might be out there? And see you in the woods.