Oklahoma Teacher Sees a Head Peeking From Behind a Tree

0:00 You're listening to Bigfoot Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring you firsthand encounters from people who say they've seen something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to quiet farms and crowded highways, the stories come from everywhere, and each one leaves us with more questions than answers. These are the voices of the people who've lived it. So settle in because today you'll hear another account that just might change the way you see the woods forever. So stay with us. Please keep Jeremiah in your prayers as he continues his fight against cancer. For more updates about his medical journey, please go to the CaringBridge link in the show notes. Thank you. All right, Bigfoot Society, you got the privilege of chatting with Mr. Brian Terrell from Red Dirt Cryptid Investigations down there in the great state of Oklahoma.

0:53 How's it going today, Brian? It's going great, man. Thanks for having me on. Oh, absolutely. I've been wanting to chat with you for a while. You know, I love talking to people from Oklahoma. I mean, you guys have one of the coolest states when it comes to Bigfoot and cryptids, and some people get bent out of shape because they're like, oh, I only want to talk to the Bigfoot up in the Pacific Northwest, but man, I love the Oklahoma stuff. Like it is, it's awesome. Uh, but you know, I'm going to, I'm going to ask, start with the question that, yeah, probably everyone starts with is how'd you get into this, this wild stuff, all this wild Bigfoot and you're in a dog man too. And you're into it.

1:33 All, man. Well, you know, I, I'm just like, some people have the, uh, The shock factor, I'm not that way. I was kind of eased into it, you know. I'm pretty sure that I had Bigfoot on the property when I was a kid growing up at the farm. And I didn't know it at the time. It was until much later. And, you know, I accidentally ended up investigating in 1996, investigating a Bigfoot sighting. And I didn't even know what I was doing, you know, but I was just curious and and nosy and ended up going out to the location and nosing around on my own. And and so I really so for a long time, I was I was open to the idea that they might be out there. But, you know. Fast forward to 2007, I ended up seeing what I guess people would say was a dog man, although at the time, it just looked like a giant wolf to me. I had no idea what I was looking at. Um, I thought it was just some giant wolf that, uh, was some kind of mutant or something, you know? And I figured that it wouldn't last very long cause it was freaking nature and a, and a rancher was going to shoot it pretty quick. And, and that would be the end of that, you know? Um, I didn't realize at the time that

3:04 there was a breeding population of these things. I was fortunate that it didn't stand up on its hind legs and run or something. I probably would have lost my cookies if I'd have seen that. So when I say I was like eased into this cryptic world, I mean it. I mean, like, I honestly don't know how somebody could be more gradually brought into this genre than the way I have been. And I think that's part of the reason why I don't. have a lot of the PTSD and a lot of the fear that a lot of people have. But man, I definitely got a lot of respect for these creatures. And, you know, I usually do everything I can to do it as smart as I can, if you know what I mean.

3:53 Absolutely. So dogman sighting in 2007, that is wild. Can you share what part of Oklahoma that happened in? Yeah, I do occasionally. It was basically north central Oklahoma. I'll just say it was close to Crescent, Oklahoma, but not anywhere. It was a little ways away from there. I'm intentionally not giving away the exact location because there's family land involved in the situation. And the last thing I need is a bunch of who Ross showing up out there and, uh, you know, trying to run around out there and call in dog man or something. Um, yeah, but it wasn't actually on my family land, but it was on a piece of property that was a little ways away. And, um, It was a broad daylight thing.

4:47 I was just driving in my pickup truck. I was actually on the way out to a piece of family land. I just happened to look over, and there the thing was. It was just sitting there. I didn't know what to make of it or anything. At first, I just wasn't getting it. You look at something, and you're like, damn, that's a really big dog. And then, you know, you, you just like, holy crap, that ain't just, that's, that's really, really, really, really big, you know, things about the size of a cow, you know? Oh, wow. Oh yeah. And this broad daylight, you know, and I, like I said, I'm, I'm pretty fortunate.

5:32 It didn't get up and stand up or something. Um, I don't know what I would have, I don't know what my, I don't know what I would have done if that would have happened. Hard to say, but in a way, I'm kind of glad it didn't. But, you know, it was years, many years later that I actually figured out that I'd seen something that unusual. You know, I was listening to some Sasquatch Chronicles type stuff, and I kept hearing stories. you know, the mentioning dog man, dog man, dog man. I'm like, what are they talking about? And, you know, and I was actually picturing something like a centaur with a dog's body and a man's head or something. Oh, sure.

6:15 And I was just like, well, you know, so finally, finally, I'm just like, you know, because I'm sitting here thinking these people are smoking crack. And, you know, if that's what they think they're seeing. And then I go ahead and I do a little search, a little Google search of it. And that's when it hit me. I was like, oh, my gosh. That's what I saw back then. And it was pretty overwhelming. I mean, that's when the fire really got lit is when I realized that not only had I seen one of these creatures, but I'd seen one fairly close. And that's when the avalanche, I guess you could say, started with me. And from there on out, you know, it was kind of downhill from there. You know, I look into just about everything from flying cryptids, dog men, Sasquatch, you know, we get a lot of dog man reports, but we get a lot more Bigfoot reports. And so therefore I would have to say that Bigfoot is our bread and butter down here, but we've got a lot of dog man reports too. I'm pretty sure that I have over 60 dog man reports documented here in Oklahoma and Southern Kansas. But we've definitely got way over 200 Bigfoot reports now. So it's kind of tough. I mean, I'd say the dogman population is a lot less, but the Bigfoot population is definitely healthy over here. You know, what you were saying before about, you know, thinking that

7:48 it has to be up in the northwest. man, I think Oklahoma is greatly undervalued when it comes to Bigfoot population. I think there's a lot more of them down here than what people think. And I think the reason why we don't have, I think it's a combination of two things. A, we don't have the volume of people that they have in other states, you know, some of these densely populated states. But the other thing is, is Oklahoma and Southern Kansas is like the heart of the Bible Belt. I mean, we're like really, really, really conservative. And that type of individual is very unlikely, if they were to see something, to come out and actually tell the public. I think a lot of people, you hear people say over and over again on shows that maybe one out of every ten Bigfoot sightings actually get reported. I'm pretty sure in my area, it's more like one out of every 20 or 30. So super conservative down here. A lot of people are pretty tight-lipped. They don't talk.

9:06 Which I totally agree with you on that. But it's like, just think about then taking that, how many... potential Bigfoot sightings actually happen in the state of Oklahoma. It's got to be a massive, a massive amount. You had said some, sorry, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say, you go to some of these Facebook pages and, and these YouTube channels and stuff. And I mean, the vast majority of people that are following those groups are these silent people that never really speak up. And I'm telling you, I mean, when it comes to, say, like my Facebook group, I've got like a core of, I don't know, maybe 50 people.

9:54 Maybe 50 people that they comment on a regular basis, post stuff, the rest of the people, they're just sitting back and real quiet, like in watching, you know? And, uh, I think that's the lion's share of people is that kind of want to know what's going on, but they don't want everybody to know that they're interested. So they're the, Are they the people where it's like they will only tell you something has happened if you direct message them out of the blue and blatantly ask them, have you experienced something? And they're like, okay, yeah. I found there's a lot of people in my group that that's the case. They won't just come out and say it, man.

10:35 It's pretty interesting. It really is the, the psychology that's involved when it comes to eyewitnesses is, I mean, you could probably write a book on it and you know, all that PTSD traumatic stuff, it plays a role in that stuff. You never really know how a person's going to react when they see something like that. That's why I know, you know, that I'm very fortunate that, uh, I haven't been, you know, traumatized, psychologically damaged, just flat out messed up, you know, because I can't imagine what it would be like just to be, you know, going for a little stroll in the park or something and, you know, coming around a corner and there's a dog man standing there upright, you know, eyeballing you, you know, licking his chops. I mean, I can't even imagine what that would be like. So I don't know the people that that does happen to, man, my heart really goes out to you. I don't know how in the hell do you go to work after that? Yeah.

11:40 How do you do anything? Yeah. You had said something really quick and I don't want to let it slip by. You'd mentioned to the side where you're pretty sure that you may have had Bigfoot on your property when you were growing up. Can you go more into that? Yeah. Well, there was a whole bunch of little things that happened, but in all, and I'll kind of go over, I'll try to give you the Cliff Notes version because, you know, once I start talking and telling stories, I just, you know, it seems like I go on forever. But, you know, I had a bunch of knickknack things that would happen. Like we had a granary inside the barn and we kept seed grain in there, you know, but we also kept dog and cat food in there. And I was constantly, you know, I was the only kid down there. And I grew up there, spent summers there, spring breaks and all that stuff. I lived with my grandparents a lot, but not all the time. I went to school in town and I lived with my parents, but I spent a lot of time down there. And I would always get in trouble for leaving the granary open, leaving the granary open. And it got to where, you know, it was just like a normal thing. It was like, you know, I would go down there and I would, you know, put the lock on, you know, and it wasn't a padlock, but it was like a little wooden lever lock. And I would lock the door. I'd come back the next morning and it was open again, you know.

13:08 And that was a pretty constant thing. So something I believe was getting in there, getting cat food and dog food out. And I think we know who does that. I also had a situation where I had built a tree house in the woods. And about the time I got it finished, it got torn out of the tree. It was literally like ripped out of the tree. All the lumber was down on the ground. It was broken into pieces. And I thought that my grandfather had done it because it was, I mean, out there, it was just, it was me, grandpa and grandma. And grandma seldom left the house, you know. Grandpa never really went to the woods unless he was in the pickup truck, you know. And, uh, but I thought, well, it must've been grandpa. He must've found out that I was, you know, taking some of his good wood from my tree house, but I wasn't supposed to do. So I spent about three days waiting on an ass whooping, you know, and it just never came and everything just seemed kind of normal. So finally I was like, you know, uh, grandpa, why, why did you tear down my tree house out in the, or my, my tree Ford out in the, out in the woods?

14:21 And he's like, well, I didn't do that. And I was kind of like, I don't know. I can't believe it had to have been him. So I kind of pressured him a little bit about it. And he was like, Brian, I don't even know where your treehouse is. And so looking back on it now, I think I know that that was probably seen as some kind of encroachment on the territory or something like that. It might have had something to do with me urinating so much around that area because I would just pee off the edge of the treehouse like boys do. And I guess that might've been what happened there, but it's not like there was other people out there that could have seen that and done that, let alone ripped it out of a tree. Um, there was another incident too, where I saw some glowing red eyes down in the corral one night when I was going back down to shut off the lights in the barn. And, um, I went up and I told my grandpa about it, and he tried to convince me that it was a cow. Of course, what would you expect to be down in there? But it wasn't a cow because it was two eyes looking straight at me.

15:36 And it seems like to me, I remember they were kind of a white-yellow color. And I just... I just had the feeling, you know, I'd gone down there, I'd walked down there a hundred times to turn off the lights and there's off and on, there would always be, you know, maybe a couple of cows down there in the corral or something, you know, nothing ever bothered me. But that one night, you know, I felt it before I saw the eyes and looking back on it now, I know what that was, you know, but at the time I had no idea. So, There was a lot of knick-knack things that was going on down at the farm.

16:19 But it was small things, small things that you could dismiss easily. And I'm pretty confident that my grandfather had no idea anything like that was going on. Because I don't think he would let me go down there and play alone. Times have changed, but back then... You know, I had 160 acres at my disposal, and it was all woods, you know, with the spring-fed creek flowing through it. I mean, it was heaven, you know. Still is. But, you know, the truth is, if he'd have thought that there was anything dangerous out there, he wouldn't have let me go. Hmm.

17:04 Yeah, that's definitely hindsight is 2020. And you think of that stuff where you are now. And yeah, you probably had some stuff going on. And, you know, Oklahoma, I've always thought of Bigfoot, but I've never really thought of Dogman a lot before. But I find it interesting how in certain parts of the U.S. there seems to be kind of like an inner, you know, There seems to be groups of Bigfoot and there's groups of Dogman. They kind of live in the same area. Do you think that might be the same situation in certain parts of Oklahoma, or do they tend to stay away from each other from what you found?

17:47 I have not seen any evidence whatsoever that they will separate and stay away from each other. Now, I have seen some contradiction to that. I have seen and gotten reports of them basically being in the same areas, not necessarily at the same times, but definitely in the same areas. So as far as I'm concerned, I have never seen any evidence that would lead me to believe that one particular area is dogman territory and the other particular area is Sasquatch territory. Okay. And I don't give much credence to the whole Dogman, Bigfoot, WWF, fight it out theory.

18:36 I mean, I think we'd hear that going on, right? So, but yeah, I mean, I don't know. Everybody wants to see it. It's definitely make a good pay for you. Well, that's for sure. That'd be some wild stuff. I mean, it'd be enough seeing Bigfoot. I'd rather see a Bigfoot than a Dogman any day. I hope I never get near one of the Dogmen. Dog man creatures, they're just wild, but I guess we have them in Iowa, so I got to look out. Have you found that there's a certain part of Oklahoma that seems to have more dog man activity coming out of it? There is patches, I guess you could say. Yeah, there's a certain... There's not an area of Oklahoma that I would say is free of dogman activity. But there are certain patches where you'll get like a small cluster of reports.

19:35 You know, like we've got an area over in far western Oklahoma where there's been a cluster of dog man reports and encounters um there's been a lot of reports come out of a town called Shawnee Oklahoma um up and down and around the river but there's also bigfoot reports that come out of there as well um There's been several reports over by Talahina, up by north of Bartlesville. There's been a couple of reports. I mean, they're really everywhere. But every once in a while, you get several in one immediate location. But they're not as predictable anymore. As far as where they're going to be as a Bigfoot, because I don't personally believe that a dog man has to stay as close to water as a, as a Bigfoot does. I mean, almost all the Bigfoot sightings that you're going to hear about, at least coming from our area is going to be, you know, within a mile of, of water. I mean, they really don't get that far away from water, I guess. I guess they're thirsty. I don't know. But, you know, you don't hear about that.

20:57 But that's not the way with dog men. Dog men be out in the middle of nowhere where there's really no water or anything. And so there's no rhyme or reason to them. It makes them a lot harder to predict. You know, of course, my personal opinion is this. You know, what we know about Dogman is like 30 years behind what we know about Sasquatch. You know, we've been studying Sasquatch, you know, pretty much since the Patterson-Gimlin age. And, you know, the, I'm trying to think of what it's called, the When they first started discovering the Jerry Crew era, you know, pre-1967. Yeah, 58, around there, yeah. Yeah, 58. They've been studying them since then, you know, documenting their behaviors, their mannerisms, and stuff like that.

21:57 And we really haven't, I mean, what are we, what would you say? 15 years into this dog man thing. I'd say that's probably generous. Yeah. I could go with 15. Yep. That's some wild stuff, man. It really is. So we've got some catch up to do. I mean, we're starting to figure a few things out. One of the things that I've kind of come to the conclusion is that a lot of the behaviors that we get out of Sasquatch I think the dogmen are doing the same thing, you know, like rock throwing and pacing people out of an area, you know, and stuff like that. I think these are both dogman and Sasquatch behavior.

22:45 And I think, personally, I think that there's a chance that there's a lot of Bigfoot reports that were actually dogman reports and possibly even vice versa. So... It's kind of hard to say on that, and that's just speculation on my part. But, you know, if they're doing the same things and they're in the same areas, unless you get, I mean, I'd say a lot of the class Bs are, could possibly be, you know, wrong. It's kind of tough to say. One thing I'll say, though, about dog men, it seems like they're much more cautious about leaving footprints than Bigfoot. I do believe that Bigfoot is very cautious about leaving footprints, but I think that Dogman is even more so. That may be because their population is less, but it could also be that maybe they're just a little bit more aware of their footprints. It's hard to say, but it's a really rare thing to run across a Dogman print, a quality one. I run into set what I consider Sasquatch prints on a semi-regular basis. So, but I'm, I'm learning where to look. So one of these days I'm going to find a good one. Yeah.

24:11 You don't hear a lot about solid, uh, dog, man tracks. That's for sure. But I, I do have a question from one of the Patreon members. So I want to make sure that I think now would be a good time. Um, So Leslie wants to ask, can you tell us about what you feel is your most memorable investigation from over the years? Oh, wow. Man, you know, I've gone out and I've talked to a lot of people and as far as like trying to put Which one is, and man, you know, I've talked to some pretty interesting eyewitnesses. But probably the one that I say is most memorable to me was, I have this friend, his name is Chuck Slabs. He's also a Bigfoot investigator. And he had a Bigfoot encounter once.

25:22 actually close to Crescent, Oklahoma as well. And I called him up and I said, hey, you know, I'd like to take you out to that location and, you know, do an interview, you know. So we did. We drove out there and we did an interview with my buddy Jeff Hatfield. And I had Jeff go stand in the tree line where the Bigfoot was. And I had Chuck tell his story about what happened to him that night. I did a video on it. It's pretty cool. But anyway, as we're buttoning up and fixing to leave, the pumper comes pulling in. And the guy that is pulling in is the guy that now has the job that Chuck used to have. Chuck used to be the pumper for that well. But this new guy... He's the one that's doing it now. Well, we'd never met this guy ever.

26:23 And he comes pulling in. I thought he was probably going to get mad and tell us to get off location or something. But he didn't. He was being real friendly. So I just point blank asked him. I was like, hey, has anything weird ever happened to you out here or anywhere else? And he got this funny look on his face. And he goes, you know, I did have something really weird happen out here last February. And I was like, really, what was that? And he basically described something similar to what Chuck had experienced. And the weird thing is, is without having any knowledge of this, He pointed to the spot where Chuck had seen, had his eye, his encounter.

27:10 And he said, something was over there throwing rocks at me at night. And I was just like, whoa. I mean, it's so crazy. And he let us record him telling his story. And so I incorporated that into the video. But it was so awesome. I've never gone out to do an interview with an eyewitness before. And then had somebody else come up and say, you know, randomly, yeah, I pretty much had something very similar happen in this exact same spot, too. I mean, that was just, I mean, my brain was about to explode on that one. But I would say that was probably one of the coolest ones I've done. But I've done several of them. Not all of them people would allow me to put on camera, so...

28:04 But I do love going out and talking to eyewitnesses, especially on location where it actually happened. It's a lot of fun. And sometimes people need to tell their story. So, yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean. I think it's therapeutic for the person that needs to tell their story. A lot of these guys haven't talked about it maybe for 15, 20 years. And, um, it's also helpful for the people that are watching your videos on YouTube, you know, can help them, uh, work through stuff. And that's kind of how it goes with the podcast as well. Um, all right.

28:46 About Southeast Oklahoma. Is it, is it overhyped or is everything that we hear actually happening down there from your experience? Oh, it's happening. Um, okay. So yes, Southeast Oklahoma does have a higher population, especially of Sasquatch, um, down there. It is true. There's a lot of stuff going on. Um, We've got an area down there that we go to that we call Xanadu. And almost every time that we go down there, we have some kind of crazy activity.

29:29 And something always weird happens down there. This last time, we went over there over spring break. And and we really didn't have, we found some interesting evidence, but we didn't have any encounters, you know, where something had come into camp or something like that. That was, that was probably the first time that we really didn't have anything actually come into camp or, or do something. That was kind of a heartbreaker because that place has a lot of hype built up for it. We call it Xanadu.

30:10 But no, yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on over there. There's a lot of reports that come out of southeastern Oklahoma. A lot of people don't realize this, but the population of Leflore, McCurtain, and Pushmataha counties are pretty high. And so not only do you have a larger population of the Sasquatch people down there, you've also got more human people there to interact with them. So by nature, you're going to get more reports because, well, there's more people there. So it kind of makes good sense. But I do believe there's a lot of activity. And it's all over. I mean, if it's close to a water source, they're pretty much there. Just some people are very unobservant and some people are observant. And I think that the people who are unobservant are usually the lucky ones because it's a lot easier to remain in the dark when it comes to this kind of stuff.

31:16 Why did you choose to call it Xanadu? Well, I didn't. It was... Micah Dones, one of the guys on my team, he called it Xanadu. And I think he called it, I think Xanadu, there is a movie about some place called Xanadu years ago. And, uh, but I think the term Xanadu means, uh, a place of tranquility and mystery and stuff like that. And, And being from, you know, northwest Oklahoma, you get down in that area where you've got all these really tall loblolly pines and everything is different. I mean, and you've got all that nice, clear, blue flowing water, you know, and all these great swimming holes and everything. It is a really beautiful area. And it just it is kind of.

32:14 It's a wonderful place to go. And I think that was where he was going for Xanadu. We just call it that because we don't want to advertise where the location is that we're actually doing our research. We found that there are some mischievous people out here in this area that if they find out where you're actually doing research, they'll go out. You know, they'll put out fake footprints for you to find so you'll look like a fool, stupid stuff like that. And I don't have time for that. So we just kind of keep our little secrets, I guess you could say. And I don't like being misleading or disingenuous, but if we're going to have If we're going to maintain a certain purity level for our areas that we're doing actual research in, we need to keep it a little bit hush-hush. Because all we need, you know, if a bunch of people know that you're down in a certain area and you're doing research, you know, it's just a matter of time before, they're sitting around drinking beer and they're getting a little tipsy and they're like, Hey, I got a great idea, you know, and then here they come, you know? So I'm, I'm trying to avoid that. So.

33:45 Yeah, that's a, that's a great call. I actually have never thought of that before, but now that you bring it up, I can easily see that happening, especially with some other places down in that quadrant of the state. Yeah, no question that could happen. People will be people. People that don't take this stuff seriously, they try to make a mockery of it, and they think it is a laughing matter. And I can think of about four or five people that I know from my personal life that, man, I would really love for them to have a close-up encounter, and preferably one of the soiled britches variety, because they deserve that. But, uh, no, I mean, you know, there's just, I don't know. You know how it is. People are just people and they come in all flavors and you can't hate them. But, but, but you can limit how much information you give out.

34:46 And so that's what we do. Have you, have you yourself or anyone in your group, uh, been able to have, uh, has there been a visual sighting in that, in that area at all? Um, yeah, yeah. Um, uh, a couple of years ago, uh, Jeff Hatfield, we were sitting around the campfire and, um, Jeff saw something big and black and hairy and moving at a distance, uh, down in a Valley. And, um, It rattled him. I mean, he jumped up out of his camp chair like he had a spring underneath him, like a jack-in-the-box. I immediately knew that something serious was happening.

35:40 I could tell by the look on his face. So could my brother. And we kind of sprang into action. I started trying to video and didn't get anything on video because it was already gone. But there was a good 15, 20 seconds, and Jeff couldn't even get out what he was just pointing. I mean, the shock of seeing it. But he didn't get a good look at it, and it was like 150 yards away. But he said it was just too big to just be like a little black bear. Because down here, we have bears. They're a little bitty. You could almost swat one. I mean, most of them run from it. But he said it was much bigger. We've had them come into camp on a couple of occasions and get pretty close. My first night out there at that location... I was sleeping in a hammock with a tarp over it. And I'm pretty sure we had two juveniles come into camp. And they were snooping around. And one of them started creeping up on me in my hammock with a tarp over it.

36:56 And I was awake. And it scared the living crap out of me. And it was very, very, very humbling. But that was the fastest I ever came out of my hammock. I set the fat boy land speed record for ejecting out of a hammock, because you can't get out of a hammock gracefully, in case you didn't know, let alone when you're as big as I am. So that was a crazy night. I would love to relive that night again. I wish I'd had a recorder. You know how that goes. Absolutely. Um, in that same area, did you guys ever hear any sounds that would not usually belong in an area like that or anything that would kind of puzzle you?

37:45 Well, yeah, we, we've heard, uh, the tree knocks, which are, to be honest with you down that area, they're not unusual. Um, I usually get tree knocks on the audio recorders almost every time I go down there. Um, We've heard what people describe as the mechanical bird noises. That was one of the creepiest things I ever heard. I've only heard that a couple of times. And that was when we first started going down there. And that was just weird. I mean, I'm not even sure I can even do it justice to try to explain. try to explain what it sounded like. But the term mechanical bird is about as close as you're going to get. I mean, imagine like a robot bird or something that just wasn't even sounding right, but sounded mechanical. That's what it sounded like.

38:51 I've heard a lot of weird vocalizations. Those two juveniles that came in that one night on me, um, they were making the mouth popping noises, you know, where they, I'm assuming they're doing that thing with, with their mouth, but it was really, really loud. Um, they were doing that. I would say like every five or 10 minutes they would, they would make that mouth popping noise and it was really loud. Um, and I think that's what actually woke me up was the mouth popping noise. And, about the time about 45 minutes before the sun came up and these two juveniles were tinkering around the camp getting into stuff I'm assuming the parent from up the hill was calling them and it made this really loud deep you know blah vocalization and at that point both of them left and started walking towards that vocalization and so I always kind of assumed that that was mom or dad or something but it's kind of hard to tell but whatever it was definitely had authority and it had a very deep voice and And they responded instantaneously. It was at that point, I think, that I figured out that I was probably dealing with juveniles. So that was a

40:24 fun night. But, yeah, you'll hear a lot of things. Never heard any kind of Ohio howls or whatever out there. I don't think they're as vocal in Oklahoma as what they are in other places. They will do howls and stuff like that, but it's not uncommon to catch one on an audio recorder. But one of these days, I'm going to get a good one. One of these days. But yeah, there's a lot of vocalizations and sounds that go along with them. Like last weekend when we were down there over spring break, we had something just outside of camp. grunt at us twice and uh we ended up getting out of our out from underneath the tarp because it was raining and uh we had we went out was looking around trying to figure out what it was but whatever it was it vanished or whatever went to ground or something but we never did figure out what it was but it uh it spooked me pretty good because it was it was pretty loud pretty deep you know.

41:49 I have a few areas that I would want to bring up just to see if it makes anything, uh, you remember anything or, or you've had any interaction with that area that you can say, I guess we'll, we'll leave it at that. If you need to say no comment, then that's fine. But, um, mysterious, there's an area that I've yeah. Right. There's an area that I've started to get a lot of reports from. And it's on the border, the Lake Texoma area. And I guess that's a massive area. Have you ever gotten any weird stuff from the Lake Texoma area of Oklahoma and Texas?

42:31 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. There's a lot of reports that come out of the Lake Texoma area, Bigfoot and Dogman. And as a matter of fact, I consider that Lake Texoma, Brown Springs area to to be kind of a dogman hotspot because there's just a lot of dogman reports that come out of that area. That place has got a creepy feeling when you get out. I know for a fact that there's more going on there than just cryptid stuff. I know that it's a hotspot for paranormal investigators too, the ghost hunters and stuff like that. I am not a ghost hunter. Um, but you know, cause my personal belief is, is I just don't have time, you know?

43:25 So I don't even know. I mean, no, I mean, man can only have so much free time. And, uh, this, this Bigfoot encrypted thing, there's days I feel like I've been off more than I can chew. And the last thing I'm going to do is decide that I'm going to take on and start chasing aliens and ghosts. I just, No, I just don't have time. I'm not dismissing them or anything or throwing rocks at that genre. I'm just saying I just don't have time to deal with it. But I am aware of the fact that they do go out there on a regular basis and they do have a lot of encounters. And sometimes these ghost hunters go out there and have encounters with cryptids. And I think a lot of ghosts... that are reported are actually cryptids.

44:22 But I really don't have any data to back that up. It's just a hypothesis, especially when you're talking about white creatures. Because I think a lot of cryptids, there's more white cryptids out there than people realize. But yeah, the Brown Springs area is pretty crazy. I've only been out there twice. But my team has actually been discussing going back down there again and doing a better, more thorough investigation than what we've done in the past. So a lot of weird stuff from Lake Texoma, as you also mentioned. And specifically, you know, besides Bigfoot and Dogman, and some people think this is total nonsense. hogwash but i've been getting a lot of reports about it from the area is you've got like the the the pale crawler type whatever it is and i'm getting a ton of stuff from the lake texas even from guys that are working the train that goes across lake texoma they're like we looked out we saw something weird on the tracks it was white and And it was like skinny and it didn't make sense. So, dude, there's something going on in that area.

45:41 No question. So I don't know. I'm not even sure what to how to classify what you're talking about. But I've gotten some reports that are similar to that as well. And, you know, yeah, I don't even know. I don't even know what to how to classify that. A lot of people put the rubber stamp skin walker on it. but it's not really a skin Walker. Um, I don't really know what to call it, but, uh, it's something different. I had a guy reach out from, um, Tulsa there's Tulsa. And, uh, he had this thing shape shift in front of him. Uh, well not in front of him, but it was in his backyard. Him and his wife both saw it. And, um, Basically, it was like 1 o'clock in the morning. It was like a Saturday night. And they'd been up and they had some friends over. And they could hear like the cops were chasing somebody down the street or something. So they go out front and whatever it was, it got around the corner and kind of gone back behind the house because they lived on a corner lot. And so they went in their backyard and and walked out on the back porch to see if they could see anything that direction. And when they did, they saw something that just kind of looked like, you know, this pale, white, hairless, emancipated,

47:18 horrifying-looking creature with black eyes. And it ran behind their storage shed in their backyard. And I got... Him and his wife were both pretty freaked out. And they said that they just kind of sat there for a minute, and they started kind of easing back towards the house, towards the door. And whatever it was, I guess shape-shifted or something. And it came out from the other side of the storage shed, and it was a homeless dude. that was just dressed all in rowdy clothes. And I guess the homeless dude just kind of looked at them and smiled and walked over there and opened their gate and went out in the front yard and disappeared. And they were just, yeah, I know I'll take big foot any day. No. Yeah. Right.

48:20 Um, and there's absolutely. Yeah. There was another lady that, uh, this was in, Now, that was about two years ago. About four months ago, I had a lady reach out to me, and she had an encounter on what is called the Northwest Expressway in Oklahoma City. And if you keep going out past what people around here would know as Piedmont Road, and you take that road and you just keep going like you're going to Ocarchee, Right there where Highway 81 ties in, she ran into one there at that corner. And she said at first it looked like a naked white guy.

49:08 No shoes, no nothing, bug naked. And he was running at an incredibly high rate of speed. And like he was keeping up with her car. and uh then he started shape-shifting into something else that had a had a longer muzzle i guess you could say and claws and of course i guess she decided to You know, get the hell out of there. The most interesting part of her story is, in my opinion, is not the actual encounter. Apparently, she was hesitant to call me. As a matter of fact, she reached out to me using an alias. She actually went to the point of creating an alias so that she could reach out to me. because she is a business owner there in Oklahoma City, and she didn't want it to affect her business. So to make kind of a long story short and to kind of condense it down, she felt obligated to turn this in to the police, even though she didn't want to. So she calls the police department, and the police department that she reached out to was the Canadian County Sheriff's Department. And she called, got the dispatcher. Dispatcher answers the phone. She starts in

50:40 telling her, like, I know you guys aren't going to believe this, but this is what I saw. And the dispatcher, she said, I could tell. She put her hand over the phone, and she said to one somebody else that was over there, she said, hey, we've got another one over here. And I mean, I can't imagine that must have been insane to hear a police dispatcher say something like that. You know, there's two of them, you know, or there's more of them, you know. So I don't know. I believe that the police department probably does have a legitimate reason for kind of keeping some of this stuff hush hush. Yeah. You know, we're supposed to, their job is to keep us feeling safe, right? And even if it's an ignorance. So, I don't know, I kind of don't blame them for it, but wow, you know, what do you make of that?

51:42 That's wild. I don't know, and I was kind of hoping you wouldn't have stories like that, but here we are. You as well have gotten some accounts like that, and that makes me think even more that there could be something going on. You mentioned Brown Springs by yourself. That was one of them. Ho Nubby? Yeah. I go there occasionally, at least once or twice a year. It's still an active area. Yeah. even though the, the siege is long gone. So, um, I think that happened in what, 2010 or something.

52:25 Uh, I want to say January, 2001 around there. So even, even longer back. In 24 years. Well, yeah, I guess that's right. It would have been crazy. I can't imagine living through that ordeal. Um, You know, the interesting thing about the siege of Honobi is that there's like four different stories, depending on who you ask when you talk to locals that are down from around there. The family that it actually happened to, they're done talking about it. The Bigfoot community and the general public acted and treated them probably badly. poorly, and they don't even want to talk about it anymore, and you're not going to get them to talk about it.

53:23 But depending on which one of the four stories you get that comes out of that area, the one thing that is universally constant and that everybody agrees on is the fact that they were being basically I wouldn't say attacked, but these Sasquatch people were trying to get into their house. And one of the brothers shot one and killed one. I mean, nobody even denies it. There's nobody on the team. There was no Bigfoot attack at Hanabi. There's nobody even saying that. I mean, it's just everybody in that area is in agreement that all that stuff happened, you know.

54:11 It's kind of amazing to me because usually you've got this whole section of people over here that are like, oh, they're full of crap or they're a bunch of alcoholics or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Nobody in that area denies that it happened. Everybody knows that it happened. I mean, it's just crazy. And some people were mad at them because they shot them. And some people, you know, thought that it was justified. But nobody in that area denies that it happened. Everybody knows it happened. And that's one thing that I do. You're talking about the Honabi area?

54:52 Yeah. The locals there? Yeah. Wow. Everybody knows it happened. So that was a real deal. So pretty crazy deal. It's sad, sad that one of the Sasquatch people had to lose their lives. But yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, it's it's it's well, you know, and then there's a whole thing. Well, if there's four versions, who knows what version if the version you heard is the true the real one speaking to myself. But it's just. Yeah. And I don't know if we'll ever. know i guess what the what the correct one is if the the people who actually experienced it aren't talking but yeah uh we'll leave that as it is but um yeah i did contact the uh the the country store down there i had a nice chat with the owner honest she was yeah she was nice she was nice so yeah she's nice.

55:48 Lady they got really good food there too i think friday oh really have catfish and Their breakfast and cheeseburgers are the bomb. So shameless. One of my one of my bucket list items is to get to one of the get to a festival conference in Oklahoma someday. I think that would be pretty cool. First weekend in October, buddy. I know it. That's what I hear. There's another one coming up at the end of May that's going to be in Tallahena, Oklahoma. That's coming up within a month and a half away. It's actually in the town of Tallahena. They'll have amenities and whatnot, but they're having a bunch of guest speakers and There'll be a few vendors there, but it's less of a, you know how a lot of these Bigfoot things are like a festival, right? This is a little bit less of a festival, more of having actual guest speakers, and it's more about the research and stuff like that than it really is about the you know, about the, I don't know, what would you call it? The funnel cakes and the, and the widgets. So not that I'm putting all that stuff down. Cause you know, I'm a sucker for that

57:20 kind of stuff too, but right. You know what I mean? Me too. Yeah. Me too. Um, yeah, that both of those actually sound great. But the last, the last locale I wanted to talk to you about, um, Just because it's come up a few times in interviews I've done. The McGee Creek area. Oh. Is that one you've ever heard of? You know, I've never been there, but I'll tell you what I do know about it. I know a lot of people have had encounters up there. And another thing that I find that's very odd about that place is for you to actually go on to that location, you have to buy a special permit from the state of Oklahoma to get in there. You can't just. Yeah. I mean, it's. So, and forgive me if I'm getting this wrong, people. Sure.

58:18 That place, like a wildlife management area, we've got those all over the state of Oklahoma. You do not need a hunting license. You do not need a fishing license. You can just go out there and walk around and do this stuff. And I know of two places in Oklahoma that you have to have a special permit just to go to the place. Or maybe you have to have a fishing license or something. But one is McGree Creek and the other one is Three Rivers WMA, which is real close to Honobby. But yeah, those two places have some kind of special designation within the wildlife department for for that kind of stuff. Um, that's, uh, one of those places that McGee Creek is a place that I haven't been to yet, but I just, it's kind of one of those things. It's like, I've got all these other places, uh, that I've been going to on a regular basis that are producing evidence. And I just haven't, I don't know. I haven't, uh, Sometimes you've got to condense and if you just go to all these different spots and just bounce around, you'll get less actual evidence and you won't get to know the areas as well as if you pick like three locations that you know

59:51 has cryptid activity and if you just pound the ground with those and just keep going on a regular basis. And when you do that, it kind of helps keep, you know, and even maybe the Sasquatch get to know you better and maybe even begin to feel more comfortable with you. It's a possibility. McGee Creek is on one of my lists of places that I would like to go, but we've got possibly better places that are closer. But McGee Creek is, they are there, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't put McGee Creek in the, I don't know, maybe in the top 10, but it would definitely be on the lower end of locations. But it is weird that it has that special designation. And you can government conspiracy that if you want to, but, you know. So, they're there, but they're everywhere. Have you.

1:00:58 Have you heard a account or story over the years that if it had happened to you, uh, you would not be going to that area. You'd stay clear out of it. You know, 95% of all of the crypto encounters that happen, they, they are what I consider to be benevolent encounters. A lot of people will say, well, it was violent or it roared at me or it was hostile or it was aggressive. When you're talking about a creature that's as big and as fast and as powerful as them, if they wanted to get you, they would have got you.

1:01:46 I can't really– there's not– there's only a handful– of encounters where people actually got hurt from these things. 99% of all Bigfoot and Dogman encounters are basically benevolent. If they roar at you, they just want you to leave. I can't think of any that I think would have scared me to my core. Probably one of the The scariest ones that I think probably would have come real close to shaking me to my core would be like Tanya Kordek's encounter where she's hiking down a trail and she turns around and looks. You hear something behind her, turns around and looks. And there's a giant male Bigfoot standing there staring at her, you know, like in close proximity.

1:02:49 You know, and that scared the bejeebers out of her. And, you know, I can I think that would probably be like the scariest thing ever, you know, to to just be a not a knower, you know, just you don't even have a clue. And then you you turn around and there it is. I think that that's the shock of it all. And having your world kind of cave in around you. that would be probably, in my opinion, the most traumatic thing that you could probably run into. I mean, people don't get bit by these things or punched or clawed or anything like that. You could argue that, well, the people that do don't live to tell, but where's the evidence for that? We've got all these reports of people that Well, it bluff charged me or it roared at me. But hey, you still made it to the car, right?

1:03:53 So I don't really necessarily think that they're as dangerous. They're capable of great violence, but I think they show some kind of restraint. I think something, either common sense or some kind of spiritual barrier, is keeping them from tearing us from limb to limb. Maybe it's just good manners. I don't know what it is, but it's kind of hard to make a judgment call on that. Yeah, I think just bumping into one would just be the scariest thing that could possibly happen to you.

1:04:38 Have you found that there's a certain thing you can do that will lead into a higher likelihood of encountering a big foot or is it more just right time, right place? I think, I think 90% of it is just putting yourself in the right place. And if you want to know what the actual key to finding evidence or possibly even promoting an encounter, I would say you're going to have to go camping. Uh, that's the thing. Um, We've got all these people, and I'm going to pick on them a little bit. We've got all these trolls that sit around, and they laugh at us, and they make snide comments and stuff from their easy chair. Man, if you're ever going to see anything, if you're ever going to do anything, you've got to get out in the woods, and you're going to have to get a tick or two.

1:05:36 And that's really what it boils down to. I have... I would say in the last five years, I've actually seen with my eyes two Sasquatch. One wasn't a good view at all, but I could tell that that's what I was looking at because it was so big. And I actually got that on film, but it's a joke. I mean, nobody even wants to look at it. It's in one of my YouTube videos. But it's just, I mean, I knew what it was, but my film footage ain't going to, you know, it's not going to convince anybody.

1:06:21 The other one, I saw a tree peeker leaning out, looking at me from behind a tree. I had my cell phone in my hand and I was so dumbstruck that I didn't even think to use it. You know, so I've seen I've seen them twice in the last five years. And I would say that I go camping all weekend long at least twice a month. Twice a month. So I mean, wow. Yeah, I'm in the woods. And that's not counting day trips. So I would be willing to bet you that I'm in the woods. You know, seven, eight days a month, easy. And that's, you know, like spring break, we were out there for five days straight.

1:07:12 Over Christmas break, you know, I'll spend, I'm a school teacher, so you know my work hours. You know, I'll spend a week in the woods over Christmas break. If I spend any more than that, my wife will kill me. You know, during the summertime, I spend a lot of time in the woods. As long as it's not ridiculously hot, you know the drill. But I'm out there probably more than just about anybody you've ever met. I spend a lot of time and I've spent a ton of time in the woods my whole life. I was a scout leader for years and years and years. And that's what I've always done. And before I started doing this Bigfoot thing, I was a hunter and I spent a lot of time in the woods, you know, hunting deer and hunting coyotes and just hunting whatever, you know, whatever got me out in the woods. I've always loved to spend time in the woods. And if you want one thing that is going to help aid you, it's you're going to have to spend at least a week a month in the woods. And that's a good start. Step two would probably be to choose your locations wisely. Absolutely.

1:08:30 I definitely agree with the second one for sure. Yeah, that's about as solid as I can get. I've had the opportunity to go out a few times in Iowa with some researchers. Have you found that you start having activity right away or is it always like– For us, it seems to be like the second night. Yeah. Or it's just it's weird. I don't know how to it. Maybe that's just coincidence. But, you know, I think there may be something to what you're saying, because except for that one night when I had the two juveniles come in. That was the first night we got there, and I think we just bumbled into them. But from what I've noticed, it seems like the first night is almost always uneventful. Later on, though, that's when more stuff starts happening, and that's when you'll have encounters. A lot of times it seems like the second or third night is when things will usually happen.

1:09:45 At that point, they're probably wondering when you're going to leave, I guess. And I don't know why that is, but, you know, there is possibly something to that. Most of the time, though, I would say like 90% of the time, the first night is usually uneventful. Yeah. That's interesting. You mentioned that you had seen a tree, sorry, tree peeker. Um, how, how far away from that was you, how far away from you was that? And did you, were you able to notice any details of the creature? There wasn't any details really. I mean, um, my buddy Coleman and I, um, We were walking in the rain like dingbats. We were out looking and searching in the rain.

1:10:39 And we was just walking along this trail, and something just told me, you know, you need to turn around and look back the way that you came. And so I took about a half a step backwards, and I looked back the way we came, and that's when I saw it. I saw this head leaning out from behind a tree. And it was kind of an oblong shape, you know, which kind of made me think it kind of had a conical head. But it's kind of hard to tell. But it's leaning out. It's looking. And at first, I mean, I was just like, oh, my gosh. You know, oh, my gosh. You know, I just kind of took my breath away. And I was like, wow. And I mean, I'm sitting here thinking all this stuff and I'm like, that's really it. That's really it. You know, I'm seeing one.

1:11:33 It's right there. It's right there. And then the thought crossed my mind. It's like, man, I really I want Coleman to see this. I want Coleman to see this. So I was like, Coleman, come on. I need you to come over here real quick. Coleman comes over there and. He's like, what's up? And I'm like, I need you to pretend like you're talking to me. But what you're going to do is you're going to look over my left shoulder and you're going to look just past my ear. But you're going to pretend like you're looking at me and we're going to keep talking like we're just chatting it up. He's like, okay. I said, do you see those two big trees over there? And he goes, yeah. And I go, do you see the head leaning out? And he's like, no, I don't. Oh, yeah, I see it. And you can just kind of see his eyes open up a little bit. And he's sitting there and he's looking at it, too. And neither one of us are even thinking about our cell phones or anything. It's just like, wow, you know, it's like there it is. There's one really right there. And so we kind of like watched it for a few minutes. But then I don't know. I just couldn't resist. And I ended up turning around trying to look again. And that's when it disappeared. And I actually saw it, you know, pull back behind the tree once.

1:12:45 And so I saw it move. And that's what just, I was just like, oh my gosh. Well, anyway, it was so cool. I mean, it was just so cool getting to see it. But we ended up going back out there the next day. And so we went and we stood where we were. And then my buddy Jeff goes over there and stands where this thing was behind this tree. And this is the part that freaked me out. We took a laser range finder and we ranged it out it. 120 yards. So it was like the length of a football field. And I still, to this day, I don't think it was that far, but this thing was so tall. I could barely see Jeff, you know, over there. And when Jeff lifted his hand all the way up in the air, it was barely up there where we could see it, which means this thing, And Jeff is like six foot tall. And this thing literally had to have been 10 foot tall. It was a beast.

1:13:52 It was massive. It was huge. And I think that's part of the reason why in my head, I thought it was a lot closer than what it was. It was further away. It was just really big. And I think that's the fact that there was a little bit more distance to it than what I thought. I think that's why I couldn't get a whole lot of detail. You know what I mean? But still, I just, I don't know. It was, I feel very fortunate to have actually gotten to see that. And that was really exciting. That actually happened at Hayburn Lake. And they're southeast. uh, West of Tulsa, Oklahoma. And that was, uh, probably about a year ago. And, uh, but man, that was, that was a thrill say the least. I mean, you live for stuff like that, you know?

1:14:48 So. I, I, I can't, I don't know how I would, I would, I would respond to that, but I mean, hats off to you for being able to handle that. So, uh, so easily and, heaven. So your buddy was able to see it as well. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Um, over the years, have you had the, have you been able to talk to any, um, I guess you would say law, law enforcement officials or forestry workers or whatever the equivalent is called down in Oklahoma about a cryptids or. You know, it's kind of interesting that you, I personally, uh, have not had any law enforcement friends or people that I know that are actually knowers. I have met, I wouldn't call them my friends, but I've been introduced to two different individuals, and I'm not going to mention their names or what state parks they work at. But both of them were state of Oklahoma Parks and Recreation Rangers, right?

1:16:06 And they were both knowers. One of them, he was a very nice guy. He saw my Bigfoot sticker on my car, struck up a conversation, gave me his business card. He said that he knew that they existed. He'd seen them before. And he was just real open and friendly about it. But I know that that's probably kind of unusual for that, for one of those guys to just talk to a stranger and tell them. But he was pretty confident. He said, I know for a fact that there's not any of these creatures at this state park.

1:16:57 And the funny thing is, is I've actually gotten reports from the state park that he was working at. And he was apparently not aware of them. But I didn't want to contradict him. And the other one was a fellow that I was introduced to who was a park ranger. And I was introduced to him via third party. And he's a knower, too. And I'm not going to tell his story or how he knows because there are a few people that know who he is. And I think it's kind of brought him some grief. So just to be professional and not bring him out. But yeah, I've met two of them who are knowers, but they're not really super talkative about it. And they definitely don't want to go public about it. But as far as like any law enforcement officers, no. But on the flip side, the former head of the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigations, I believe his name is Mr. Pratt. I can't remember his first name now. Met him one time. He's a knower.

1:18:19 And he was a very high-ranking official within the state of Oklahoma. I mean, he was the head of the OSBI. You know, that's basically like, I don't know, NCIS or whatever the TV show is going right now. He was the head for the whole state. And he's a knower. So, very– Henry, Henry Pratt, I think is his name. Super smart dude. I mean, but, you know, there are people within uh, the state that are, that hold those positions that, uh, they're knowers, but they don't talk about it as much. You know, it usually just brings you nothing but grief when you come out of the closet, you know what I'm saying?

1:19:05 So, Is that Harvey Pratt? Harvey. Yes. Because that's the guy who did the drawings in David Palletti's book, right? Yeah. I think it's the same dude. That's interesting. Oh, yeah. He's probably the, you know, I don't know, most famous law enforcement person that I've ever heard of that's a knower. So I think that's enough. I mean, he's about as far up there as you can go.

1:19:48 He was a big dog before he retired, and he's a very friendly man. So at least he impressed me. But anyway, yeah, I don't– I mean, I'm sure there's others. I'm sure there are. It's just who do you– They're not coming out and talking. You know, you've got that phenomenon. They just don't talk. Oklahoma's tight-lipped anyway, you know, and it's just the stigma. It's the stigma that surrounds it. You know, these people, these law enforcement individuals, their judgment is everything for them because– If they're crazy or deemed incompetent, you know, I mean, their testimony is worthless. You know, and their testimony is probably their most important thing. So they have to maintain that higher level of integrity, and they probably guard it much more protected than most people, your average Joe would.

1:21:00 Absolutely. there's one last question that I, I want to ask you. You're an absolute wealth of knowledge and I really appreciate it. There's another location I had just reminded myself of. And just because I've gotten a lot of stuff from that area over the last few weeks, this is the beavers bend area of Oklahoma. Yeah. And so I, So here's the thing. It's like half the people are like, well, you're crazy because it's just a tourist area when I talk about it. Right. But there's some other people that are like, OK, it is weird there. So I'm kind of curious, like what your take on it is. Is it just a tourist area or is there weird stuff that actually happens there?

1:21:47 My area, Xanadu, is not far from there. Oh, snap. Well, I mean, OK. Yeah, it's still now. I mean, uh, it's, it really is a tourist, uh, trap now. Um, when we, when I first started going down to Hanabi years ago, uh, or not Hanabi, uh, we call it Hoochie town, Hoochie town. Um, that, that place was dead. I mean, there was nothing there. Uh, there was a filling station and and a bank and a post office and a couple of other little stores.

1:22:29 But now it's like exploding and it's turned into this tourist trap. And you've got all these rich urban bikers that ride out there and, you know, and they, you know, they ride out there and they're running around and it's quite the vacay. It's very pretty. It really is. And, um, You know, so there's been a flood of people moving to the area. But you're right. There's a lot of encounters down there. I know that there was a– I don't know exactly what it is. I'm seeking more information on this case file, but I just received a story, and it might have been from one of yours. As a matter of fact, it was. It kind of came to me. But it was about that service technician at the restaurant over there that had a Bigfoot staring at him while he was working on the roof or something.

1:23:31 Was that you or was that another? I don't think it actually was me. I've gotten a lot of actually Skinwalker stuff from that area, weirdly enough. Well, I don't have any Skinwalkers from that area. But anyway, but yeah, there's a lot of stuff that goes on in that area. It's not necessarily like the Beaver's Bend area. I would say it's more like the Broken Bow Lake area. Because Beaver's Bend is the river where it comes out of Broken Bow Lake. And that area is just, there's a lot of activity. I mean, just, you know, draw a big circle around the lake. I mean, well, they're everywhere. Honestly. They're everywhere down southeastern Oklahoma. I mean, they really are. I mean, there's no area. Throw a dart at the map. If there's a water source, they're there.

1:24:31 I'd be hesitant to even try to guess how many of the Sasquatch people are actually living down in there. I think it's a lot more than what people realize. Man, you get down there in that Ouachita National Forest, it is huge. Oh, yeah. It's absolutely huge. I mean, hell, the camp spot that we were camping at was 13 miles back in from the closest blacktop road into the National Forest. I mean, we joke around, but we're serious. We always say, well, you know, whatever you do, don't get hurt out here. You'll bleed out before we get to the blacktop. I mean, it's no joke, but it's very serious. We're out there in the middle of nowhere.

1:25:19 There's very few hospitals. There's just no civilization. There's vast areas where there's just no people living, nothing. I mean, the habitat is there. The amount of wild hogs that's down there in southeastern Oklahoma could feed a small army. I mean, you'll see packs of wild hogs of 30, 40, 50 hogs in one pack running around down there. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, man. I mean, we're talking barbecue buffet, you know? I mean, the volume of food that is available to them down there is massive. And I'm here to tell you right now, unless you've been down there, in the National Forest, and you've walked it, you can just get out or just drive it. You cannot possibly fathom how big that place is. I mean, I've been going down to that place now for 10 years off and on. And I have not, you know, I was always joking around with my buddy Eric this last time.

1:26:40 We drive by a road. I'm like, I've never been down that road. I've never been down that road. I don't know what's down there. I've been going down there forever. I mean, not forever, but a long time. And there's just so much of it that I've never even seen. And it's just right there. I just didn't, you know. I mean, it's absolutely unfathomable how big the Ouachita National Forest is. Now let's talk about the Jack Fork Mountains. Let's talk about the Winding Stair area. Let's talk about the Three Rivers area. Let's talk about the Hanabi Wildlife Management area. I mean, it's just, it never ends down there. The Ozark National Forest. Let's go north a little bit.

1:27:24 I mean, there is, city people do not have a clue how much real estate is is down there and how unaccessible it is. We cannot get into some of these places. Literally. Wow. I mean, for a city person, just imagine this. You put Oklahoma City, the entire, all the burbs, you put it all together and take Tulsa and Broken Arrow, throw it all together in the Ouachita National Forest and is at least 10 or 15 times bigger than that.

1:28:05 That's wild. Yeah. And there's nobody living out there. Oh man. I mean, yeah, it's no wonder something can live out there like that. Not just something, a civilization of somethings. I mean, there could be a dinosaur roaming around down there and I don't think anybody know it. I mean, do you think there's dinosaurs down there? No. Okay. I mean, I'm just a dude. I've heard stories out of Canada, so I was like, I might want to double check. Maybe some pterosaurs or something. Oh, there you go. Yeah. a whole different category. But, you know, the point is, is unless you've been down there and you've driven through it or walked it, you really just you cannot imagine how big those places are. And that's just Oklahoma. Let's go to Colorado and let's talk about the Rio Grande National Forest. I mean, you get lost over there. They'll never find you. They'd never find you in a wall.

1:29:09 I mean, it's just some of these places, it's like if you broke down in, you're going to die. I mean, it would take you a day to walk out of some of these places unless somebody just happened to pick you up. And I don't think people really realize how remote some of these places can really be. And other than a rental cabin here or there, an Airbnb rental cabin, there's no civilization out there. And it's beautiful. It really is. And I think that's why they're out there. These forests are massive. And I think there's whole communities of these creatures living out there, unmolested by human society, and they're just doing what they want to do. And contrary to popular belief, I don't think they need our help. Nature don't need our government's help.

1:30:18 No, definitely not. I don't need my government's help. Yeah, the government can stay away from Bigfoot for sure. Although, who knows? They probably have their hands. I'm sure they probably do. It would be stupid to think that the government is not aware of them, but maybe for once the government is smart enough to just leave them alone. That'd be great. That would be amazing. Brian, it has been so fun chatting with you. Thank you so much for coming on. Do you mind sharing how... If you could take a minute or two to share the different ways that people can keep up to date with Red Dirt Cryptid Investigations.

1:31:08 Well, our primary hub, of course, is our Facebook page. That's where we post a bunch of stuff and people chat and people talk. So check us out on Facebook. Follow us on YouTube, of course. My YouTube videos are not faked at all. I just, you know, I take you guys with me. I film whenever we get out there. Um, you know, it's just basically, you know, me and my guys out there in the woods actually looking for evidence. And that's, that's really, if you want to see our evidence, it's in our YouTube channel. Um, We do try to take that pretty seriously, although we do joke around a little bit. You have to. But, you know, YouTube, we're on TikTok as well. We're kind of on Instagram, but I don't really pay a lot of attention to that.

1:32:03 And I don't know, there's a couple of other knickknack apps that we're on, but primarily TikTok, YouTube and Facebook. And if you'd like to get a hold of me, just go to our Facebook page. The easiest way to do it is just find me on the Facebook page. I'm one of the admins. And just hit me up on Facebook Messenger. You can send me an email too, but that takes longer. And hey, let's face it, nobody likes typing. Fantastic. I hope some people that hear this, if they have information about the areas Brian's been talking about, you can always reach out to him directly and I'll have some links in the show notes. But thank you so much for coming on, Brian.

1:32:50 Thanks for having me. It was fun. I just love sitting around talking about this stuff. I mean, it's nice being able to talk about this stuff and just have a good positive atmosphere where people are willing to listen you know it's good stuff. And if you've had a bigfoot encounter of your own i would love to hear from you you can send me an email with your encounter at bigfootsociety at gmail.com i've come out with a free report about the top 10 bigfoot hot spots you can go over to bit.ly forward slash bfs report i'm jeremiah byron thanks for listening to bigfoot society and i'll see you in the woods