He Didn't Tell Todd Standing About the Recorders — Then This Happened

0:00 You're listening to Bigfoot Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring you firsthand encounters from people who say they've seen something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to quiet farms and crowded highways, the stories come from everywhere, and each one leaves us with more questions than answers. These are the voices of the people who've lived it. So settle in because today you'll hear another account that just might change the way you see the woods forever. So stay with us. Please keep Jeremiah in your prayers as he continues his fight against cancer. For more updates about his medical journey, please go to the CaringBridge link in the show notes.

0:42 Thank you. All right, Bigfoot Society, we've got the privilege of talking to Frank Middleton today. I've wanted to talk to Frank for a very long time. So welcome to the show, Frank. How are you doing today, sir? I'm doing good, man. I'm glad to be on here. It's been a while. We talked a lot through emails and stuff, but I'm glad we finally getting it going. Absolutely. You're one of the guys in the background that are going everywhere and you have a lot of cool experiences. So some info about Frank for listeners. He's a BFRO investigator. he is a veteran as well, correct?

1:23 Very good. Very good. Thank you for, for your service there, Frank, as well. You are certified in track and sign. Is that through the military or? No. One of the people that I was good friends with in the BFRO, we do a lot of track and stuff and she, she's really, really good at it. And Uh, she kind of got me involved with a group and it's actually an organization in the United States. Uh, it's called track and sign. Uh, and it's some of the best Jonathan Poppily. Uh, he was one of like, there's a lot of your best trackers in the United States, I guess, maybe in the world that do it. And, uh, they, they, once you go and, you go to some of their courses and, uh, what I like about them is like, you obviously, if you study and stuff beforehand, great, but, uh, I hadn't. And, uh, but what they do is when you get there, you know, you'll get a piece of paper and you'll write down like 60 questions and then you'll, they'll go through and track and find stuff. And then they'll, they'll set you out in groups and you'll go through, And basically, they'll tell you to describe what it is.

2:44 And if you get it wrong, you get it wrong. If you get it right, great. But then they tell you everything. And I learn a lot better that way. And then once you score a certain level, then you either pass or fail. But there's degrees to it. So I don't think you can miss any to be a professional tracker. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty intense, but I got certified in that my first time going. And trust me, I'm not saying by no means that I'm a top-notch tracker.

3:24 There's a lot of good trackers out there. But for me doing that, it brought me into the world of Sasquatch Bigfoot just because the more I understand... the tracks and tracking and tracking sign, then it helps me to eliminate the due process of being like, okay, well, could that be a Sasquatch? I know this animal does this. I know this animal does this and makes this sign. So it kind of helps. That's kind of the reason I wanted to get into it after. Okay. I also want to mention before we get too much into it, you are part of the Squatch and FL group, which is a great group. great guys and gals uh also your co-host sasquatch unredacted with host richard uh farabee.

4:16 Is that right bravery i couldn't spell it i used to work with a. Farabee but if he was listening i still remember your buddy um but that yeah so i'll definitely have links to uh that down in the show notes so are you saying then that tracking got you into the the bigfoot subject to begin with. No, Bigfoot got me into tracking. Kind of the opposite because, you know, it's so easy to go out in the field and see something. And, you know, a lot of people jump to, that's a Bigfoot, that's a Bigfoot. And not to say that they're wrong or right, but for me as an investigator, Bigfoot should be the last thing I narrow it down to. you know, I should be able to rule out everything else. So when I got into learning the tracking, it blew my mind, I guess, the amount of lack of knowledge that we have anymore as humans. Uh, you know, back in the day, everybody was out in the field and tracking and there's a lot of good hunters and trackers and stuff out there.

5:32 But for me personally, uh, You know, I grew up in the mountains and I spent a lot of time out in the woods. But there's so much knowledge out there that we don't understand because we just not took the time to learn it. And as a society, we're going farther and farther away from it. And so for me, getting into tracking was something that I got into because of Bigfoot. Because the more things I learn about what animals are in each region and how they move and what their tracks do and what kind of signs they leave and things like that, I just looked at it as it would help me to be able to eliminate, okay, you know, there's a certain scratch on a tree or, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's what kind of got me into the track and find. I also, I hunt, so it helps out with that and things like that. But, uh, being able to identify and, and help my process of eliminating whether it is or ain't a Sasquatch is kind of why I got into it. And, uh, so when I got into that, it opened my eyes to a whole new, it was really a game changer. Uh, and there's a lot of good books and there's, It's tons

7:03 and tons of studying if you really want to study it and get better at it. But, you know, there are certain breaks and stuff in trees that, you know, that people jump into and automatically say Bigfoot. And, you know, they forget that there's lots of insects and stuff out there that can whittle trees down and, you know, just nature in itself. But I started getting into tracking because of the Bigfoot stuff. Frank, so a question I want to ask you is, and I ask this because I went through it myself, and I'm sure a lot of people in this field go through it. It seems like when you actually get out there and you start looking into this phenomenon, there's always that one situation that you can remember where something happened and it pushed you over the 100%. Is there something in mind that you can think back to like, oh, this happened and it pushed me way over.

8:03 Man, there's been quite a bit happen. Well, I guess the first thing that really just got me into it was my very first BFRL expedition. I live so far down in South Florida now that it's a 15, 16 hour drive just to get up to Tennessee and stuff. And that's, if you don't run into traffic. And at that time, I didn't really know that any groups actually allow people to go out like the BFRO. Uh, I just started looking into, uh, where can I find people to go out with? And it brought me to them.

8:52 And I started, and I got in contact with Lori Wade and she's amazing. Uh, uh, So I went with hers, and the first one was there in Middle Tennessee. And I think, you know, she kind of explained it like, look, something may happen, something may not happen. We don't hoax. We don't scare people. We don't put up anything in the woods like to promote sound or anything. Like if something happens, great. If it don't, it don't. And so I was like, okay, so for me, I try to drive and get up, get up to these places like a day or two ahead of time. And then a day or two after that way I can rest before the expedition starts. And then I can rest a day or so after, because once it starts, you're kind of going, you know, stuff like that. So I was in camp, uh, by myself if there was anybody else there might have been like another camper, like, on the far end of the campground. We wasn't around each other. But I remember, you know, here I am. I'm all excited. I'm, you know, a little nervous about it and stuff because not so much scared but, like, thinking. Then again, you know, I guess scared did come into play because when I first started learning about this stuff, you know, I grew up in Kentucky and I'd had stuff happen, but I wasn't

10:25 into the Bigfoot stuff at that time. So once I got into it, those things that happened kind of re-entered my mind and said that that was probably what it was. So I was excited, but I was nervous to think that, man, you know, if this thing is legit, then we're kind of at its mercy. You know, I've been in the woods a lot and I'm not scared of cats and bears. And now when you get up to like British Columbia and out in the Northwest where there's grizzlies and stuff, yeah, that's a little different, but black bears for the most part, I try to get away from you. And so I wasn't, I've never really been scared as far as being in the woods about that. But I remember thinking, you know, if this thing's real and it's as smart as, everybody makes it out to be, then we're kind of at its mercy with this size and stuff. So that kind of presented a different type of fear. So I had a little nervous energy, I guess. And I remember I was in my tent and I had a little single tent and I was laying on my cot and it was like 2.30, 3 in the morning and this huge scream slash howl came in and it woke me up out of a sleep. and it sounded like it was maybe, you know, a hundred yards from my, my camp or, or my tent was, but it was so guttural that I could feel it in my chest. Like if you

11:56 were standing around like a big bass speaker or whatever, and it's like my left arm was brushed up against the tent and it was like, almost like you could feel it vibrating. And at that point, I'm just like, oh my goodness, you know, like this is real, you know, and I've heard coyotes. I've heard all that stuff out in the woods and nothing compared to it. And so I, you know, I laid there and I thought, well, it sounded pretty close. And, uh, the only thing I could think was grab my pew pew and put it on my chest and, and just sit there and be still and calm. And I knew I wasn't going back to sleep and maybe about it done it twice. And then, Maybe about 10 minutes went by and the campgrounds there have gravel in the campsites. So like you hear, I started hearing like footsteps and it was slow, but it was definitely what sounded like bipedal footsteps, like somebody was sneaking up to my tent. And it was enough for me to yell out, hey, you know, if you're somebody messing with me, you're going to get shot. You know, that's a good way to get shot. And I never heard it back out, and I never heard it advance or anything. And so that moment in general was probably what initially hooked me. And then from that point on,

13:27 you know, that whole time in that spot was absolutely amazing. I had a lot of stuff happen there. And then from there on, you know, it was a hit or miss in certain places, but then, you know, there was places that I did have stuff, but that was probably, probably the first initial, like that's, that's kind of what sunk the hook in, you know, and from that point on, I'd done a deep dive. I always think it's fascinating how I've asked that question before and even asked it to myself and like i haven't had a visual yet but it's like there are more than a few people where it's it's just a situation where you hear that vocal something's walking around your tent so it's not even a visual sighting and that is enough to to push you over i mean that's what happened to me in oregon in 2024 um i do also want to address for new listeners um this is going to be one of those interviews. Whenever I talk to someone associated with a BFRO, there's, we're always talking about locations and those are going to be vague and that's to protect the organization's research. And some of the locations are also actually private property. And so we don't want to mess with the homeowner as well. And it's, that's, it's, it's how the internet view is going to run. So, if some listeners are like, Oh yeah, tell us where, well, this isn't going to be the one for that.

15:01 And I respect that. So, um, Frank, can you, can you think, uh, what was the first time. Uh, that you, that you have, and I, I'm, I'm assuming this, I think I remember because you have had, have you, have you had a visual before? Uh, me and my kids have one in Florida. Uh, yeah, it was, and then we had, uh, I never made out the body of the ones in Tennessee, but we had the illuminate knives in Tennessee. And then we had the thermal picture of, uh, uh, it's two juveniles in Tennessee. And then, uh, but the visual that me and my kids had in Florida was the same year. And we was in Coke Creek. And I remember looking at a, uh, I think it was Mike Flamont at that time. Uh, I, you know, at that time I was just really jumping into podcasts and, you know, you were the very first person I had had ever reached out to, uh, back when you used to do, and I'm not sure if you're still doing it, but the Collins, uh, Right.

16:18 They're a little different now. I do them. They're just over on TikTok. But yeah, I still kind of do that. Yeah. Well, when you when you was doing those pretty heavy. You were the first person that I reached out to and was talking to because, you know, it had built up in me so much that I just had to start talking about it. And so. I had ran across Mike Flamont's. and they were talking about this place in Coat Creek. And I think at the time, Mid-Florida Research Group, Maria and them, was doing one. And I think it was like a get-together. And there was a lot of people out there. And I just wanted to take the kids out there and kind of get them acquainted. And they're older. So when we went out there, I showed up.

17:10 It was like already late. And by the time I got my tent put up, They were already fixing to go on a big walk. And based off the property, based off the property, everybody was kind of huddled up on one side of the field. And it's it's probably a couple of football fields in size. And so everybody was down here. So I kind of was like, OK, well, according to this podcast, these things come in and watch you from the woodland. And they've had eye shine and all this stuff. So I was like, where would I think if I was them would be the best place to spy on people and still be in safe regard of not being seen or getting away. And I thought, okay, well, this corner up here next to the woods, it's away from everybody. I'll go set my stuff up there. So by the time I got like my last stake drove in, Maria then came and told us, you know, Hey, you know, we're all going for a walk, yada, yada. So, I didn't really have time to grab my stuff, and we took off and started walking with them. And, you know, we walked like maybe a mile or so and then came back. But as we came back, everybody had kind of stopped there at the beginning where everybody had been hanging out. They had a fire pit going on. Everybody was kind of just sitting around, hanging out, talking and whatnot.

18:33 So me and my two boys was walking back towards the tent. And as we started getting back towards the tent, we seen these big amber eyes behind the tent, maybe 25 yards or so into the wood line. And it was just sitting there like swaying back and forth behind this tree watching us. And it was from that distance, it looked about like my height. And it never took its eyes off of us. It was just sitting there swaying, you know, like this. And me and my kids was watching it and We was slowly walking closer to it, and I thought, man, you know, like, it's getting dark. Let me just run in the tent real quick and grab my thermal and come back. And when I turned to bolt to get my thermal, this thing took and turned and went in the same direction that I was.

19:25 It would have been to my left, so it would have ran to its right. And you just heard just weeds and brush just tearing. And then my kids was like... I'd snapped a few pictures with my phone before I got my thermal, and I had one picture that was pretty good of the eyes, but as soon as I took off, my kids I heard it so I knew it took off but my kids was like yeah it ran it took off and then the next morning we went out there to try to look for tracks and it was standing in water so it was like almost I guess mid-calf almost knee-high water and so you couldn't see anything but you know deer's eyes are normally like a whitish green you know and the only time i've heard people say that their eyes are red the only time a deer's eyes are really red is if you're shining like a red light towards them most of the time a deer's eyes are going to show either like a whitish looking or a green and these were like a big yellowish amber looking and uh i mean at least six foot But the swaying was what got me.

20:40 And it never ducked or nothing like that. And I couldn't make out anything other than the eyes and the swaying. You could kind of base the silhouette of it just because the tree that it was standing behind was probably about as round as a basketball. But the distance that it would, when its eyes would go out and come back. But that, that was probably the closest thing to a visual that I've seen as far as, you know, anything personally seen, uh, you know, I've found tracks and, and, and I've had some pretty crazy stuff, but like the visual that, that was probably the closest. Uh, and that's the only thing I could narrow it down to is I, deers don't act that way. We do have black bear down here. They don't act that way. Uh, nothing that I know acts that way or has eyes that color and, but the swaying and stuff. And then maybe, maybe about two, two 30 that night, my Otis nudged me and was like, Hey, there's something walking around the tent. And I kind of blew him off like, ah, and he's like, no, I'm serious.

21:55 And so we got quiet and you could hear footsteps moving around the tent, but I never poked my head out or anything. I just kind of sit around and listen, and then eventually they disappeared. But that place is, you know, that place gets a lot of activity, and there's a lot of sightings around that area. It's in the green swamp. Yeah, it gets a lot of activity. And so I think my... The guy that's the main guy in my Aguilar. Great guy. Yeah, he's I think one of his main sightings is kind of in that same location. And so like when I was talking to him about it, you know, he was telling me about the same thing. He's like, dude, he's like he described exactly where I was at. And he was talking about one of his one of his I can't remember. I think it was a sighting that he had had. uh, was in that same area. And, uh, but I'm still learning Florida and getting more involved in Florida.

23:05 A lot of my stuff is, you know, I like to try to go all over the place and, and experience, uh, different places where, you know, they may or may not be just because they're always in beautiful locations, you know, not. Always, but that's true. And usually the elevation is, is a lot higher than Iowa. I've learned that. I'm like, I'm going to keep going to high elevation stuff. Well, like it's different, you know, like when, when you're used to, like I grew up in the Appalachians. So like I was always in the mountains and all of that. And, uh, you know, Florida's flat. I think I'm like it. That's true. Uh, it's hot, but it's flat. So like when you're used to doing stuff down here and then go back to Tennessee and stuff, it's a different, different, you know, you got to kind of get your stamina back up.

23:57 No, absolutely. Um, so do you, do you spend a lot of time in the green swamp? Do you, have you gone back to there or not really since then? I have not been back to that spot since then. I have spent some time up in Citrus and Gotha. Uh, I'm going to get, yeah, I'm going to get back into, uh, into Citrus and Gothub. I need to get back into the green swamp. It's just, you know, even then it's such a drive. Like when Mike had first got with me about being part of the team, I was like, yeah, yeah. You know, anytime I'm up there, that's great. But you know, it's still like a four to five, six hour drive to get up there. And so it's like, I wish I could be up there all the time, but I'm, I'm a lot of the stuff that I've been taking, uh, I try to narrow it down to South of Orlando. Uh, but a lot of the stuff comes out of, you know, like for, for whatever reason, a lot of like Broward has been getting a lot of attention as far as flats lately. And, uh, some of them recent and then, And no offense to people putting these things out, but it's kind of hard to do anything with when somebody puts a new encounter out that happened in the early

25:29 70s or, you know, because everything's already built up and built over. It's tricky, yeah. You can call and talk to them and it's like you can't really go out and investigate that spot. Right. And for listeners, when you say flats, you're talking about the BFRO database. So when someone... puts in a report and that's. The whole reason i wanted to get involved and be a bfr investigator because of the link flats because like say say there's 6 000 accounts on the bfro website that people can go in and look at there's like a hundred thousand that and investigators are still trying to go through and put out it's wild and it's growing and growing and that's insane and you just Yeah. And it just, you're never going to get through them all.

26:21 And yeah, it kind of blew my mind. Uh, and then, you know, you got people on there that, you know, they specifically request moneymaker or Bobo and, and, uh, we'll only talk to them. And, you know, a lot of times they're not going to come out there and we just blame them. And, uh, but I'm, you know, the, the, I know you, you do the mapping stuff where, uh, with the stuff that you get, like you got a lot of knowledge in your own mapping that you've done. And so I look at those. I look at the Bigfoot mapping thing. I think Marie Mayer has got one. And I've listened to, I can't remember the name of it, but there's a few more that's set up kind of like the BFRO that you can get on that maybe somebody has went and posted their account to them instead of the BFRO.

27:17 Right. Totally. There's NAWAC, GC, BRO. Oh, what's the other one? There's, there's a few of those. Oh, no, they're, they're like regional ones usually, but they, there are a few databases you can find. They're, Yeah. Yeah. And I, I try to find those and keep up with them just because, you know, the BFRO don't always have the best rap and people, sometimes people steer away from them. Sometimes people go to them, uh, you know, so I try to vary and, and look up different sources to try to, and, and honestly, Florida's a lot, Florida has a lot of stuff. And just since I've been doing, uh, the investigating stuff and had access to links or flats, uh, you know, the people that I've been in contact with and, and took cases, you know, like they've sent me and not all of them, but you know, some of them's paranoia and some of them like, but one of them, uh, one of the ones that comes to mind, it was in Ocala and they had, they were on a horse and was like 15 miles back on a horse trail and ran across a, Footprints that came out of the wood line walked about I think she she had maybe a video of probably 30 steps and Look great Super good stride Off the top

28:54 of my head I can't remember the the length of the feet but I may not if I'm remembering right they were probably 13 by 5 or 13 by 6 and which, you know, again, you're in Florida. I try to walk around barefoot as much as I can, but when you're out down here, like, there's some people that, you know, do it, but not a lot of people walk around barefooted out here. It's hot. There's storms everywhere, you know. Snakes. Rattlesnakes are terrible. Cottonmouths, you know, there's just a lot of stuff. And so... I'm trying to get more involved with more South Florida but it's really hard I was supposed to go this weekend and look up a location that me and Richard had interviewed a guy on his podcast and it got cancelled yesterday and I'm really looking forward to that one. Cause that one's really, really interesting. Um, a guy was out, it was, and this guy never, he's an older gentleman. He's never, never was into the Sasquatch world. Didn't know anything about it. He had went to his son's property, uh, or their house for Thanksgiving.

30:22 And he noticed some deer out in the yard. So he went outside to, uh, you know, get a better look at the deer. And as he was coming around the corner, he was watching the deer and he had turned to go back around. And when he turned, he was like, well, it wasn't face to face, maybe like 30 yards away from a skunk ape. And it was like, this thing had almost was shocked that he ran in to the gentleman and kind of stopped and froze and had that, oh, I'm busted look. And he said that when he heard that, he immediately heard something in the sky and couldn't make out what it was at first.

31:08 And when he was looking in the sky, he looked up and when he looked back, this thing was gone. But then this huge drone was flying over and following in the direction that the thing went. So it's like, and when he described the size of the drone, you know, I have an Autel. I know Miguel, he's got a newer one that's a really good size one. But for the most part, you know, a drone the size of the one that he described would have to be government. Or somebody really, really, really rich that spent bukus of money on one. Because they're not cheap anyway. But, I mean, he described this thing being three or four foot like this.

31:55 wide in each direction. You know what I mean? So that's it. And I've only seen one really that size when I was up in Northern California and, uh, forest service, they were up on, it was on the go road. They were set up up there and was flying one around. And, uh, but for the simple fact that this thing was right above, uh, that as he encountered it and made me think that this thing was running, trying to get away from the drone and just happened to run into dude. And, uh, which is, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting. And so we was supposed to go out there and, and look at his spot and, and do some research. And, uh, we got to go ahead, I think Sunday or Monday, and then got canceled last night due to the rain and stuff.

32:46 So, Hopefully I'll get that. Hopefully. That sounds incredible. My goodness. Another database came to mind. It's the... I. Think one starts with A. It's an older one, though. There's one, I thought, that starts with an A. It used to be one of the main ones back, I guess, around the same time the BFRO had started really doing And I can't remember the name of it, but it was another one that a lot of people go and post to. But I try to find these and look up because, like I said, everybody don't post on the BFRO. Yeah, it's the popular one. But, you know, and I'm sure people have posted on yours versus the BFRO, you know.

33:44 The difference between mine is. Um, it's, I, I put, I'm the only one that can put on stuff on that map so that it's all from episodes, interviews I've done, et cetera. Uh, another trick I use for listeners might find this fun is if you know of a website and you go to the website and you're like, it doesn't exist anymore. Well, you go to the way back machine on archive.org. You can usually find those older Bigfoot websites and there's a lot of information on there and you can find, um, like saved copies of the website from like 10, 15 years ago. So that's pretty cool. Um, I wanted to ask you, so before the question, but because I don't know if listeners, I've, I've been releasing stuff about Tennessee, but I haven't released it all together.

34:35 And so I had a lot of weird stuff happen in Tennessee. I had, um, orbs voices, uh, actually voices in two separate areas. What is the weirdest thing that you've experienced that has to do with a Bigfoot expedition in Tennessee? Tennessee's great, man. So the first there's a couple of them.

35:16 The most crazy one was the one that happened this past spring, uh, in April. And so I'll share that one last because that one's the, the, the most blind mind blowing thing that I've had. Uh, so I think me and you, it's in the same spot we've talked about, uh, I've heard the voices. I've heard it sounded, and I don't know if they're the same, but the ones that I heard sounded like two females.

35:58 Same. Yeah, two females chit-chatting. And like close enough to where you could hear it, but not, it was like muffled. So you couldn't make out what was being said, but it sounded like if, you know, maybe somebody, and I know there wasn't a trail there, But it would remind you of like if you were sitting at a campground and everything was quiet and you heard two women chatting and giggling, walking down a trail or something. And that's what it would remind you of. And that was odd. The same place where. the, the old graveyard with the TP, uh, the A-frame tombs. Um, we were kind of around that area when, when we heard that. Uh, and then what was another one?

36:57 Where you, sorry, where you heard female voices was that area. Okay. That makes sense. And I got it on audio. We were sitting there and, uh, obviously there's a road that goes up to it, but we were the only ones on that road and, uh, sitting in the dark and almost like if somebody had like an old muffler on a car and it sounded like if you just sit there with your eyes shut and take away the gravel, it would sound like a car was driving by us. Uh, And the muffling is so loud that we're literally starting to look around. And it's not just me. It's the group look around for a vehicle coming from a different direction, maybe coming up the trail that we was on or whatever. But like, and it's plain as day on the audio. Like it sounds like car it's it's muffling. And none of us can explain what that was. Uh, I don't know how much you got to explore around that area, but there's a pond in that area, a pretty good sized pond.

38:22 So we were told not to go in the direction. So like if you're facing the pond, the pond goes back and we were told not to go back in that area. Cause you're going into the forest area or I guess it's not, I guess you're going into state property or state forest or, or something. Right. And, uh, three of us, it was raining one night and we was like, everybody was kind of staying in. So we, we took off and went that way. And, uh, when we got there, there's a lot of, uh, game trails, a lot of like where beavers slide down and stuff like that. But, we, earlier that day, we were hiking up through there, and we were just kind of scoping the area out, and we was like, man, you know, like, there was a big, big rock back there, and we were like, man, you know, if that would be the place to go, it was just all the feeling that we got, so when we went back that night, as soon as we got over there, the first thing we got was two knocks. Very, very distinct. And then as we started making our way through there, something had threw a rock. out to like the middle of that pond where, and it had to be a good size rock because you hear the, you know, like a loud, and then

39:52 you see the ripples and all that stuff. And so we, you know, at first it was like, it couldn't have been anything other than a rock. You know, it was too far out in the pond. It was too deep. The splash was too big. And the more we got going back through there, the, the knocks intensified and, uh, I made a how and immediately it kind of freaked me out to be honest, because no sooner than I stopped my how coyote started, I mean, in like a second and they, they were right up right there next to us. And, uh, But we had a lot of hows and knocks and things. And on that one, we heard the voices. And that place where I told you I found, I think we was talking backstage on it.

40:58 We had ran across. So one of my buddies that I was there with, he's from Georgia and he's former Marine. And we have made a thing about, you know, how much people don't pay attention in the woods, you know, because they're always either looking at their feet where they're going and stuff like that. And earlier that day, we was hiking and we veered off and stood out in the middle of this field about, I don't know, maybe 30 yards off the trail and was like, look, if we don't move or make any uh, big movements, wonder how many of these people will actually see us, you know, and, and none of them did. And so we were just taking a lot of stuff and, and, uh, I guess he had been there before and we, me and him decided we would start going off and doing our own day hikes. And cause we was a lot of similar mind and stuff like that. And the place where, uh, we went up on this, we went up on this road and he is, he had said that he had brought his wife out there once before and she wasn't super into it. So she was sitting on the top of the hill and something was throwing rocks up the hill because it would hit. and then bounce up the hill.

42:32 And so he wanted to take me up there and show me this spot. So we get up there and this big field opens up. And by the time I spotted it and told him, he done stepped in it. But there was a huge pile of poo in the middle of this trail that was very human-like. There was no wipes or paper or anything like that to... So whoever did it, if it was a human, uh, probably needed to come back and take a share, but, but it had, uh, foods that human would eat in it.

43:18 You know what I mean? Uh, and I'm not trying to be very detailed or whatever it goes, but you know, it had corn and things that humans would eat versus what animals. Would Right, no bones or things like that. No bones. Yeah. Right. And so we was like, man, you know, like, would somebody have done that? It was just an odd spot, you know, like it wasn't one that looked like somebody was in a hurry. And it's right in the middle of a trail. And as we pass that up and we get going through there and we found a stump.

43:59 where somebody had put peanut butter and apples out, but they had a jar of peanut butter, and then we started looking around and found a trail camera. So somebody had been in that area, obviously looking for the same thing, and somebody in the group later on said that they had had a sighting up there. Whether it's true or not, I'm not sure, but they said that they'd seen a brown one back there, in that same area that was like swaying and almost like it was like they knew that person was there and was agitated that they was there but kind of waiting for them to leave to come back and so that was kind of like that was all on the very first one that I went to uh so I'd always wanted to get back to Tennessee I'd went to South Carolina and Kentucky and places and So my very next one that I went back to Tennessee on, I spent, uh, eight days cause they done back to back ones. And the first, the first three or four days was very quiet. Nothing was going on. Uh, but then the last half of it really, really popped off.

45:20 And we was, uh, we was at this section and this is in a different location in Tennessee. Uh, we were in a different spot and we hiked up this trail and it was four of us. And we were, what we done from the first time I went to Tennessee, they gave us a list from, uh, thank Mary, Mary green or Carter, the 50 years of Bigfoot lady. Oh, I can't remember who. It's either Janice Carter or Mary Green.

46:02 Well, I think Janice, but I think we got them from Mary. Okay. And she had printed out a list of Cherokee. Oh, sure. And I can't pronounce all of it, but, you know, we got to where anytime we would go into these places, we would speak the Cherokee and say, like, basically say, like, hey, we're friends. come visit us, stuff like that. But we would say it in Cherokee. And so this particular time, we had done a leapfrog. So two of us would stay here, send two up. We would call back and forth to each other. Once they got positioned and said a while, then we would come past them and then so on and so forth. And so we had spent a few hours up there And nothing was happening. And we were fixing to leave and go back. And then all of a sudden, off in the distance, maybe 75 yards, 100 yards, we started seeing, at first we thought maybe somebody, because two other people were supposed to have been in that same spot but on a different trail. And that was thunder.

47:24 Oh, okay. I was trying to figure, yeah, gotcha. And so when we got to this spot, we didn't see their vehicle. So we thought maybe they wasn't there or went to a different spot. So when we started seeing these lights coming in, we thought, okay, well, maybe that's them coming. And then we pulled up on the map that the direction that they were coming, there's no trails, there's nothing out in that area, it's just mountains and woods. And so in the direction that we're facing towards the lights, it goes downhill about, I don't know, 50 yards and then shoots back up. And so as a crow would fly, you know, 75 yards maybe, hundred yards but you know if you walked it it's a lot farther but so we're sitting here watching this and it was two sets of eyes they was at one point we had counted nine sets of eyes but for the most part it was usually about four between three and four and we were sitting in complete dark these were illuminating eyes and I hadn't Never in my life seen nothing like that.

48:49 And we started hollering out to it and we were singing and, you know, being goofy and singing. And the eyes would change. The colors would change. So it would go from anywhere from amber to blue to bluish white to red. And we couldn't figure out why or what, but anytime. you try and anytime you took a picture and uh really try so from my camera my camera don't zoom in the way some like Richard Fabry has a uh sam uh android samsung i don't know what it's called but dude mind-blowing the camera on this thing.

49:42 Oh, yeah, definitely. Mine don't do that. So the only way I could bring them up was to hook my adapter into an HDMI cable and then hook it up to a TV to try to blow it up. And doing that, when you zoom in on it and try to take a picture, they kind of look like orbs. But with the naked eye, you could totally tell that they was two sets of eyes, and in certain movements and stuff, you could see that they're two sets of eyes, but I don't know if, they were so bright at times, you could see the lights breaking through the trees, and there was a guy with this, Matt Donahue, he was goofing off, and he's like, oh, I'm so happy, you know, he's like, I'm so happy that you're doing this. He's like, I'm going to bring you some, some gifts. I'm going to bring you liquor and all this stuff. And when he said that every set turned red.

50:44 Whoa. Yeah. And then we all knew and seen it and we were all like, Oh, they didn't like it. You know? And, and immediately he started saying, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You know, I'm, I'm just kidding. I'm going to bring you cookies and tangerines and bananas. And when he said that, they all changed from red to like a bluish and then into amber, greenish. But it was wild. And they interacted with us for two, two and a half, three hours. And I don't think that they would have stopped except for people was getting tired and wanted to leave and so we sent two down the trail back towards the vehicles which was like a couple miles away and again I think maybe one of them had one of their red lights on that was pointing towards the ground but me and the other guy Tony I can't remember he's got like an Italian last name they call him Papa Squatch but he's I think he tony something uh big stocky guy big beard prior military me and him stayed back while the other two was going back down the trail and we visibly watched two sets of eyes paste them back down the trail so goodness as the other groups were sitting here

52:17 where we were these two varied off and started going down the mountain as they started going down the mountain two sets broke off from them and paste them and was walking out with them And when we got down there, we asked them, you know, did you hear anything? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And they said they heard some, you know, like something walking on something like tree breaks. Not like a snap, like a big limb, but like, you know, if you walked across something and snapped a log, they heard that. And we sat in the vehicles for a while and waited to see if anything might pop out and never did. So... The next day, we went back up there and checked out the spot and got a better visual of what it was. And so instead of going out at the same time, we flip-flopped it to where, say, we would leave at like 8 in the evening and then stay till 2, 3 o'clock in the morning. We left at 1 in the morning and stayed till like 7 in the morning, 8 in the morning. to see if anything, and nothing happened. They put nothing there. It was dead, quiet, no lights, nothing. But a group in a different spot had kind of the same thing we had. And then the following night after that, another group had something. And so what it looked like to us was they were traveling farther and farther east each night. I don't know

53:49 if they stayed on that mountain and was just traveling or if they was just traveling because. But the following night, Laurie Wade and a buddy of mine, Michael Hink, he's an older guy that had just got a thermal and never really hadn't played with it enough to really get the buttons and stuff like that going. But they pulled up on a spot and where they see these two big sets of red eyes, and one is taller than the. Other, and they see a hog and a deer, and then they see the red eyes, and Lori jumps out of the truck and takes off running.

54:37 Towards the two red eyes. He jumps out behind her. He's trying to take a video. He ends up snapping a picture, and picture that we got from it you totally see and they're they're plain as day uh and it's exactly kind of what they explained there's one taller than the other one but one is looks like it's kind of turned sideways like this okay the other one is either facing or it's got its back toward him, but you see the whole body silhouette. You see the head, you see the arms, you see the body, you see the leg.

55:21 Oh, no way. Everything stands out in the thermal. And, uh, so, Lori, we always mess with her because she gets zapped. And, uh, she got zapped on this one and, you know, she's cussing them out and, uh, asking why they've done that, you. Know, and, uh, Yeah, well, you know. Yeah, well, so they had heard something on the other side of where the juveniles were. And the picture that the guy took, it's hard to make out. But based off the story and the situation, what it sounds like is they ran into an adult teaching the juveniles how to hunt. And when she jumped out and was taken off towards the juveniles, the adult must have said, that's too close, zap. She gets zapped a lot. And I've never, I don't know if I've experienced it or not. I know there was a few people that I know for a fact that they wouldn't make nothing like that up.

56:34 I've been, one of the guys' name's Butch, and he's from Texas. Great dude. Straightforward. Me and him get along really good, but You know, if he says something, take it to the bank. He's not going to fabricate anything. And that following night, he got what he considered zap because something happened. It spooked him. He wanted to get out of there. He was disorientated to the point where he was even driving the vehicles and he didn't know where he was, was lost, didn't know how to get back to the camp, anything. And he's never been like that. That's wild.

57:15 So, uh, that one was pretty, you know, that whole experience was pretty, pretty, pretty wild because, you know, I've heard people say, talk about illuminating eyes and I've never experienced, I've seen eyes shine, but I've never, we were sitting in total dark. Nobody was shining lights or nothing. And, uh, for that to happen, you know, was, was pretty cool. But, Tennessee in itself is unique. Yes. And Kentucky, same way. That whole area is wild. And I don't think it– I don't think it– I mean, obviously, you know, it gets a lot of attention, but I don't think that people realize how much is in that area that, you know, because you go like that same spot, we– left and would go get something to eat and we could drive by and look over in that area and be like, that's where all that stuff happened. And then you may go talk to people and they have no clue.

58:23 No clue. In that area. Yep. Absolutely. It's wild. And we found, we actually got, where the juveniles were, we actually got footprints from there and that same spot that night that it happened and casted them and I think they were If I, if my memory's right, it was 14, 14 or 15 by seven. But, uh, yeah, uh, Tennessee, Tennessee is pretty wild. And, you know, I had an encounter in Kentucky that is like an hour from where the spot is in Tennessee. And it's a very known hot spot. And so it kind of made me wonder if they travel back and forth because, you know, why wouldn't they? But both spots are known for really well hot spots. And, yeah. I'm getting to go back to Kentucky the 1st of October, and I'm excited about that, and I'm probably going to try to swing by in Tennessee and spend some time.

59:40 Oh, nice. It's just, after experiencing Tennessee for myself, I. I was happy when you found me. Yeah, it was awesome. But you hear all these really intense stories from Tennessee and weird stuff, and it's like, yeah, I could totally see how all of that is absolutely happening after what I experienced. Um, you had, you've taken a trip to British Columbia and, um, I would be really curious to have a, uh, I'd love to have a conversation about that if that is something you can do. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, the guy's name gets a lot of controversy and most people that I've seen, you know, turn me off when, uh, I even mentioned his name, but you know, I went up there with Todd to, uh, just to see for myself and me personally, I think Todd's a good dude. Now, whether people believe what he put out there or not is besides the point. Uh, Todd as a person is a very down to earth person. Uh, you know, he don't, He don't live fancy. Like, he's very, like, not what you would think. And, you know, I think people get this thing in their mind that, you know, he faked all this stuff and now he's made money

1:01:10 off of it and all that. Like, to me, that wasn't experience that I got from it. But British Columbia in itself was so beautiful and so mind-blowing that that just driving through it was like, almost brought me to tears because it was just such a remote place that, and then you put on top of all the stories and stuff that you hear from that place, it would be so easy for them to be there. And now, when we got to his campsite, Uh, we, we immediately had a black bear and a grizzly walk through the camp.

1:02:00 Oh my goodness. I mean, like instantly. And I think for me, you know, again, regardless of what people think about him, uh, he never wants to try to hoax us. We, me and this other guy, there was four of us. He was a guy from Northern California. He's a former Marine. And then there was a guy from Texas. He was a prior police officer. His name's Oscar. But we went there. So he has three campers in his little camp area. One is mainly for eating. and the other two like me and the one Marine stayed in one and him and the other guy stayed in the other one and I don't think people realize either that you can't carry a pistol in Texas or in British Columbia or Canada like oh sure yeah uh so anywhere Todd goes he's got two rifles the person in front carries one and the person in back of the group carries one and it's just because there are so many bears around his area. Uh, but so there was a guy from Scotland there and, uh,

1:03:33 him and I think Ashley, uh, I'm not sure they're together anymore, but they were out meditating, uh, at the campsite and they started getting whoops call in and, uh, So that was the first thing that we noticed. The things that I experienced there kind of play into that because one, I don't want to be woke up to one outside my window staring at me. You know what I mean? So I kind of kept the way I would position myself would be to where that wouldn't happen. And so the first night we got there, we had heard or I had heard what sounded like footprints running, like almost like if you had a kid doing sprints outside the camper and you would hear footsteps run by, then footsteps run back by, and then footsteps run by again to the point where my feet was kind of there at the door to the point where I made it a, like, I got up to make sure the door was locked. Granted, that wouldn't do anything anyway if they wanted to get in, but it was just a secure thing. And I got up to make sure the door was locked just because

1:05:05 I started feeling like, man, if this thing was to open a door or whatever, you know, I'm right here. And the next night, nothing. We got loaded up and we went and hiked in radium and we hiked a 10,000 foot mountain. and it was mainly straight up. I had probably a 70, 80-pound pack on, and it was rough. And I'd done it good, and, you know, I had a torn ACL, and I wasn't going to let it. It was just something that I wanted to do. So it took us most of the day to hike it because I'm telling you, like, It's basically straight up. And we got caught in storms. The weather was changing so much.

1:05:58 Before we left, I didn't tell a single soul. I didn't tell any of the guy. I didn't tell the guy that was camping with me in the camper. I snuck some audio recorders out around his campsite before we left and didn't tell nobody. So... We get up there, nothing happens, we hike down, come back, I'm pooped, I'm laying there in the bed, I'm listening to the audio, and where I put the audio, when you walk out of the camper, he parks his e-bikes underneath this little canopy, and I had slid the audio back behind the e-bikes, kind of in a spot where if you're walking by, you would have to search for it. And within 15 minutes after we left, you started hearing tapping, like somebody's like doing that up and down the and you can tell it's on the camper, just the way it sounds.

1:07:13 So you start hearing this tapping, like tap, tap, tap, tap. And then you hear a like that. And the knocking was getting closer to the audio recorder. And then as it was getting closer, maybe 10 yards down, you hear another, you know, and so it made me think that there was two of them, you know, and then the night that we got back that very night, as I'm listening to that, I hear very, very heavy foot stomps. Like not somebody walking, almost like you hear a couple steps and then almost like it was positioned right out where the window would be. And I was like, I'm not looking up at the window, you know. And but it was, you know, it was unique and. I showed Todd the next day, and he was like, oh, man, that's amazing.

1:08:14 And he wanted me to send him the audio. He tried to copy it while I was there. For some reason, I don't know why, the audio, I cannot download it to a computer. I have to. Somebody might know how to. I'm just not well-versed in that stuff. So in order for me to send it to him, I would have to send him the whole device, And I would rather have it copied first and then send in that, and that way I don't lose it. I would recommend you do that. Yeah. Totally. What kind of device is it? This is just a– it's one of the first ones. It's just a little cheap. Uh, it's, uh, I don't even know the brand, but it's, it's, it's not like the real good audio recorders. I started upgrading from them, but like, uh, it's just like the little, you know.

1:09:09 So internal memory Olympus type thing. You're not talking about task cam where you can just pop out the, the, uh, memory card. Oh man, that's, well, it takes, uh, a SIM card, but it recorded it to the main device and I didn't know that. So after that, I went from, I started getting task cams and stuff like that. I didn't want that issue anymore. But, you know, we found, you know, a footprint that was apparent. You know, the thing was, you know, I'm a skeptic person. I'm very open-minded. I'm very polite to people. So just because, you know, I don't believe everything everybody tells me, and I'm not saying that being rude. It's just, it is what it is.

1:09:56 Right, exactly. I understand Todd gets a lot of flack. It is what it is. We went there, me and this other guy was kind of there not to try to disprove him or anything like that, but we questioned, you know, like if we seen a tree break, And he was like, oh, look how high that tree break is. No human could do that. We went over and the guy grabbed, the other Marine grabbed it and he bent the tree down and broke it. And what was weird is when the thing popped up, it was in the same level as the tree break that was already there. The guy that was from Texas, you know, he hollered at me on one of the places that we were at. And he says, hey, you know, come look at this tree. It might be a footprint. And I went over there and looked at it.

1:10:52 I knew that it wasn't, but I wanted to get Todd's input on it to see what Todd would say. To see if Todd would be like, oh, yeah, yeah. Well, Todd looked at it and was like, you know, no, I don't think it is. Because the symmetrics of it look like a print. But what it was is where somebody had either climbed up that hill at some point or an animal or whatever. It basically had pulled a rock out at some point, you know. Okay. left in yet but you know and I will say that there's things that Todd said that you'll never make me believe or never make me get into and there's things that I can say that I've been around him enough to to I don't think that he's completely fake on everything I don't think that he's trying to hoax people all the time and just try to make money I just don't you don't see that when you're there he does not have all this money that people make him out to.

1:11:52 Like for instance, my, my gear had came a few days late. Well, we ended up driving from, he lives in, and, uh, his place is in British Columbia, which is like a three hour drive. We get to the campsite and my stuff, I get an email cause he's got Starlink and stuff out there. And, and, uh, saying that it was in, he just throws me his keys and a picture of his insurance and says, here, take my truck. Oh my goodness. Wow. He's, he's, uh, he'll call and check on you and talk to you. Like he's not just trying to sell you stuff. And I think that's where, you know, people have that whole thing about him that he's just fake and, you know, they hate him and, and they'll never look past that. But show me any Bigfoot footage of, Take the Patterson-Gimlin film right now. Look what's going on with that.

1:12:53 People are going around trying to disprove that. Anybody who's got anything that looks legit, you're going to have a side that says it's real, and then you're going to have a side that says it's fake, and you're never going to make them believe or disbelieve. And what I can say about Todd is that one dude, Logan, I can't think of his last name. You probably know. Logan Chasseau. the guy with the recording setup yeah he's. Got cameras all around todd's stuff he's setting up places in multiple different areas it ain't just a dm but he's got them in different states and stuff oh yeah and he seemed to have captured some stuff up there and you know of uh something throwing a rock at one of the cameras and and things like that and uh so i mean you know todd's not I don't think so. And I'm sure people will call me stupid and all this stuff, which I don't care. But, like, I don't think Todd, whether he faked the stuff before or not, I don't know. I think that a lot of stuff gets thrown out there. Like, when they said that his sister was, like, a makeup artist and all that stuff.

1:14:09 Right. Yeah. It's like... the way that you hear him talk about stuff because like you know there's two sides to every story Todd always just got crapped on and from that point nothing that he could say or do was it was all based off him being a a hoaxer and so like his credibility no matter what he does is. Tarnished and Oh, I would agree. I mean, man, uh, in, in a lot of people are like, Jeremiah, what do you think?

1:14:53 Okay. So I, how I view things guys is that I need to talk to the person directly before I make a, you know, yay or nay. And, um, I've never been able to talk to Todd. So, Uh, I've, I've tried to set that up before. I just have never been able to, I'd be open to it. But, um, that's why I've been trying to go out to places like Tennessee and Oregon and try to figure this out for myself and not just that's part of it. Right. So, right. And that's kind of like, I'm not too proud to ask people like, you know, I reached out to the sailor Sasquatch, uh, Sarah and him, you know, I think they make good content. Uh, sure. monsters, I'm not trying to get on film or anything, if they film it, cool, whatever, but I try to go around to people and learn from them, and take what I can from it, and I've learned a lot from that, and I'm not too proud if I get something wrong to say that I'm wrong, but it's just one of those things where, you know, again, going back to Todd, everybody is so quick to say, oh, his stuff's fake, but yet, nobody has been able or if they have i'm not seeing replicate what he done you know like if they're saying oh that's just puppets and it's so easy to do then why hasn't anybody done it and said hey this is how he did it this is why it was so easy to fake maybe there has and i just ain't seen it the whole path stuff

1:16:25 i found it interesting that you know all that came out once Meldrum died. When Meldrum died, all of a sudden, now you've got this group of people that's coming out trying to say that the Gimlin footage is fake. The whole deal, man. I just want to get... I just, like. Dude, if you're going to put it out there, just put it out there and let us move on. Like, you know, just. It's. Terrible how long it got... Right. Dragging on for, right? Well, you know, they was going to put it out, and then... to where they were going to go and drive around the country and only do it at certain events and stuff like that. But, you know, regardless of what you think of Todd, I do have audio of something. And, you know, we checked the campers the next morning and you see it would be like three fingers like this.

1:17:21 Oh, man. Bigger, you know, and spread. And it looked like somebody had went down the side doing that, you know? And, uh, the one guy, the Marine, you know, we went to his gifting spot and we all put out apples. And, and here's the thing about Todd, when he pulls on trees, like it ain't just where anybody can grab them. Some of them are, but some of them, I mean, they're way up in trees. And, uh, Mine wasn't taken. We found one that looked like possibly a squirrel or a bird had started taking it. It was on the ground, but it had a few bite marks out of it.

1:18:07 But then the former Marine guy, Lewis is his name, his was taken, and there was a rock at the bottom of the tree. where he had put his like he he didn't put his high up but he put it usually like uh like on a broken twig or something he would smack it on that and it was a rock that did not belong there it was polished it was it was like orange and black and white it's almost like a marble would be but like i don't know what the name of it would be but it was super smooth super polished uh It's definitely something that wasn't there, you know, or that wouldn't have been there.

1:18:56 And so it's like, you know, what do you do with that? You just have to take it and move on from it and say, hey, well, this happened. I asked the guy that was in the camp with... todd that night he's like hey did todd ever leave the camp at any time plus there's cameras that you know. Right your camera's everywhere because of logan. Yeah you know so if he's doing something around there then it's going to get caught on camera and todd don't have access to those cameras it. All goes so he can't just go in and wipe it right okay that's interesting yeah wow yeah it. All goes through logan so when I mentioned that to Todd about the cameras he was like well you'd have to get in touch with Logan because Logan's the one who has access to all this stuff so it's like Logan's the one that's doing it it's just Todd's allowing him to set it up.

1:19:48 There you know it ain't like the stuff to. Go and flip flop it but so I mean you know and then I left from there and went to Northern California and stayed and nothing happened but it was just you know, it's just one of those spots that I wanted to go to, you know, like, uh, at the O'Callaghan festival, you know, we got up on stage and somebody asked me, they said, well, you know, if the Patterson footage proves to be fake, is that going to alter your opinion? I'm like, no, not at all. Not at all. That wasn't even what got me into it, but it's such an iconic place now. Uh, I just wanted to go see the place and see the area. And, you know, I've read books, I've read, you know, like the Hoopa Nation and, and all that stuff. So it was kind of nice to put visual to paper. And, uh, but most of the, most of my stuff that I've had happen to me is in Kentucky and Tennessee. And the, the Kentucky one last May, uh, I normally pack every time I go out. And it's not that I don't have any interest in shooting a Bigfoot. None of that.

1:21:13 It's more for people, crazy folks. Oh, 100%. Yeah. And so you're never going to see me waving it around or anything like that. Or if something was to happen and I have to do something, then it's there. So... and I know, you know, Charlie and Lindsay and, uh, yeah. Yeah. Charlie's, Charlie's a great guy. Yep. Great guy. And I've never met Lindsay. That's, that's why I say that, but Charlie's great. Yep. Lindsay's, Lindsay's great too. Lindsay's probably, she's probably what keeps Charlie in. Oh, of course. Yeah. That's, that's how it works. Right. Uh, but you know, she's very, you know, she was, she's a retired police officer and stuff, and she's very, very intelligent. And, uh, they're just a great group of people and I love going out with them. And what I like about Charlie is he's out on the ground doing interviews. So he's trying to put you in the best spots possible for something to happen. You know, not saying that it will, but he's, he's doing what the BFRO is initially doing, but doing it in Kentucky. Yeah, exactly.

1:22:25 So he's, he's putting you in great spots and, Uh, but he, you know, for me being a hunter in prior military, I'm usually in camo or something like that. And he's kind of against, he's not going to tell you not to wear it, but like he is more along the lines of you shouldn't wear camo, uh, because they're going to think you're a hunter, uh, things like that. Like, you know, when people take cameras and stuff, you know, if they're used to seeing hunters aim and shoot and then all of a sudden you got somebody, you know, pulling up cameras, you're still aiming, you know what I mean? His theories are, or was ones that were different than I was used to hearing. So it was like, okay, uh, he don't think that you should pack when you go out, uh, things like that. So I was trying something different. Uh, first time I'd ever not packed, uh, And we get on this trail that was well known for a lot of encounters. I think Lori Wade had one of her first encounters there. Somebody had made a mention of they seen like one spider crawl across the trail and they were supposed to be like a white one there. And, you know, all these different encounters. And we get to this spot and we're sitting on this big pile of rocks and just sitting in the dark and I remember a story that I'd heard of, I think it was

1:23:57 a kid. It might be North Carolina. I'm not super sure right now, but it was basically like a young kid was supposed to be being watched by his grandma or somebody. And she went inside and he vanished and they found him like three days later alive, but he was like 60 miles away. And they asked him, and he, The story may be somewhat different. I'm just remembering it, the little bits and pieces. So if I had some of it wrong, forgive me. So basically, they asked him if he was scared or whatever because, you know, he was young and it was at nighttime. And he said no, that once he realized that it was getting dark, he leaned up against a tree and he apparently seen these things poking around a tree looking at him and he just felt safe. And they asked him how he stayed warm.

1:24:53 And he apparently told them that a big bear had picked him up and cuddled him and kept him warm. Yep. That's legit. Yeah. And so, you know, that's just an odd story. Like for me, a bear is not going to do that. And everything we've learned over time about apes like gorillas and they're very loving. Like you look at. The kids that have fell down in zoos into a gorilla place, what do they do? They take care of them. They cuddle them. I just seen one recently where, and I don't know how recent the video is, but I just seen it where a kid had fell over and it was, I think, an orangutan. A young one had picked him up and lifted him back up. towards the parents and then the bigger orangutan came over and got it from the younger one and grabbed it and then lift it back up to get you know what i.

1:25:47 Mean like wow yeah absolutely. So i don't think a bear would do that and a kid of that age is not going to travel 60 miles or 50 miles through the woods i just don't believe it so we got the idea of taking and taking a speaker out there and uh playing babies crying in in the woods and uh we played the sierra sounds first where we i think we found found them on youtube where it wasn't like ron morehead uh. Talking to him right it's not the cd i know exactly the youtube video you're talking about because i've used it.

1:26:28 Yeah yeah so you were just plays the the them talking or the Sasquatch noise and the samurai chatter and all that. So we, we found that and was playing it. And then when we turned it off, we played babies crying. And as soon as we turned the babies crying off, we're sitting there in the dark and we heard, we all of a sudden we hear a scream and it sounded like it was within like 30 yards in front of us. And it sounded like it was coming towards us to the point where it I'm jumping up fixing to run, you know, cause it caught me so off guard. We were in the dark. Uh, it was just something that just shocked me cause it just happened. Like, you know, usually when you turn something off, like you, you get quiet and you're trying to listen and, and focus. And it was like, as soon as the, as soon as it turned off, the scream happened and it sounded so close and coming in that like, it sounded like it was right on top of us. And, So I jumped up to run, and the guy beside me, he jumped up to move. And then I thought to myself, don't run, don't run, just sit here. And I squatted down, and I just sat there for a second. And then all of a sudden, this little breeze came in behind in the direction of where the sound would have been coming from, and this odor came. And it was like instantly. So you heard the scream, and then the odor came. And this odor was just like an old, nasty... old piss

1:28:06 smell you know like it was just something had been rolling in just nasty piss and it was so thick that you could taste it and it lingered for a good 10 minutes and it screamed again and then I thought and you never heard nothing we never heard nothing come in we never heard what direction it came from where it went We just heard the scream. So I'm sitting here. All I had to do is reach up and turn my light on. You know what I mean? and it just didn't pop in my head uh I have a thermal in my pocket by the time I thought to pull my thermal out I pulled my thermal out and and uh turned it on and started therm and and where we was sitting there was a tree that had that had that was broke down over the road. And, you know, you see heat signatures behind it, but you couldn't really make it out. So I handed it to the guy that was next to me and said, Hey, you know, look behind us and see if you see him, what I'm seeing. I don't think he was looking in the same spot. He said that he thought he seen something poke its head around a tree. Uh, I didn't see it. Uh, but I went back that night and looked up every animal sound in that area that I could think of, and I spent hours looking up every sound,

1:29:40 different sounds they make, and could not find anything. And the only thing that I eventually found that mimicked it was when I was in British Columbia, I was talking about Jeff Meldrum, and Todd was like, hey, you know, if you're a Meldrum fan, you should watch Legend Meets Science. And on one of my trips to Tennessee with the family, I put Legend Meets Science on and I'm listening to it as I'm driving. And somewhere in the middle of that, if you find the YouTube version, there's one of the videos, it's like 44 minutes long. Around the 23 minute mark, they're in this room where they're listening to audio, and they play this scream, and they say in the database that it don't match anything as the audio fingerprint that it leaves, that it don't match anything in the database that they have on record, but they said it was primate.

1:30:54 As soon as I heard that, I was like, ah, you know, I was all jittery, like, that's it, that's it, that's exactly what it was, so I sent it to the guy that was with me, and I didn't say nothing to him, I said, listen to this, and as soon as he heard it, he was like, oh my gosh, that's it, that's, that's it, he's like, send that to Charlie, so we sent it to Charlie, and, you know, he never really said much, but that's the only thing that I've, I've found to, uh, that sounded like that. And then the first time that we were down here with, I think when Mike started the squash in Florida group, uh, me, Mike, Aguilar, Mike Noga and RPG was out and we heard the same thing. And, uh, That's the only two places that I've ever heard that. And it was the same cadence, same scream. This one was a little farther back, like wasn't right up in your face like this, the one in Kentucky was. But it was pretty spooky, man. Like just the way that it just came out of nowhere.

1:32:05 You never heard no prints or no sounds of it coming close. Nothing after it left. So You know, it is very interesting. But, you know, I've learned a lot what little time I've been doing this. Man, I got a library of books that I read all the time. Just because you read different people's opinions and you read people's different stories, doing what you do, listening to people's stories and stuff all the time. I love that. I could do that all day long. But regardless if I believe what they're saying or not, I can still pick up something and possibly learn something from it. But what Bigfoot has kind of done for me and the route that I'm sort of taking now is, and I think I was down in Mayaka with a dude named Todd Patrick, and there was a guy that was out with him, and this guy's like, He reminds you of what you, I guess what you would think of just an old European hiker. I'd have to look up his name, but he's a botanist. And he had just got back from like the Netherlands the night before we went out. And he's always traveling and always hiking. But what I really liked about walking with him was everywhere we went, he

1:33:39 could say, he would point at a plant and say, hey, that does this and you could do this with that you know and i was like man you know going back to what i mentioned earlier with the tracking our lack of knowledge and i know that there's people out there that are very good with plants and i know there's people out there that are very good with tracking and hunting and all that stuff but what i'm saying as a society we're we are nowhere near the level of what we used. To be as a people yeah absolutely. And we're only going farther from it. So what I started doing, I got into the tracking, and that's a never-ending learning. I got books upon books to study, and I try to base it on regions that I'm going to.

1:34:33 But also, I've got into learning and reading trees and plants, and one of the books that I got it breaks it down by region, and it tells you all the edible plants, poisonous plants, what time they grow, what time in the springtime they grow, what times in the fall that they grow. So, follow the food. If you know that these plants are growing a certain time of year, and these plants, deer and certain other animals eat, try to put yourself in that spot. You know what I'm saying?

1:35:15 Uh, Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's kind of what I've been working on lately. It's, it's really smart. Um, this is something, a version of this is something I've had multiple hunters tell me, uh, at the, uh, Sasquatch Summerfest Oak Ridge Festival. Hunter after hunter have told me all you have to do to find Sasquatch in this area of the Cascades is know where the elk herds are, and follow the elk that's all you gotta do and you'll find the Bigfoot it's it seems so like easy but it's just like wow this is very smart too. You know well and you know it's like I've been reading the the Albert Otsman Otsman's Albert Otsman's account and what I find interesting about that is is you know, he describes how these things came in, uh, he, he describes when these things get him, uh, not only just, like, the location and stuff that they were at being very remote and whatnot, like, when they came in and stole his stuff, they only stole, like, his prunes and, uh, I think macaroni or something like that. But, like, he

1:36:49 said he never seen them eat meat. And not to say that they don't, but he never seen them eat meat. But he said that they all had, they worked in, like, a family base. He's like, they all had different jobs. And he said the mother, when she would go out and come back, she had just all this vegetation food that they would, you know, eat throughout the day. And it was like, so... Obviously, knowing where these places would be and where it's at and what time of year it's at, you know, they're going to put themselves somewhere in that vicinity to where, you know what I mean?

1:37:29 And then if they do eat meat, which a lot of people claim that they do, if they do eat meat, then those same animals are going to be going towards the same sorts of food. So, it's a win-win, and so, you know, it's, like you said, it sounds simpler than it is, but that's, you know, Florida's so hot all the time that, and there's a very little window to do a lot of camping down here, so I take a lot of this time, you know, like now, and do reading and researching and stuff like that, and So I'm kind of trying to open my mind, and I'm very open-minded, but, like, it's just trying to just try different things, you know. Oh, yeah. So that, you know, basically that for me right now, the the newer things that I'm going to just start focusing on is trying to learn the plants where they're at, what time of year and how good of a valuable resource it is. Like, is it in abundance? Cause that was one of the things I knew about when I was up in Northern California along the Klamath river. There's bukus and bukus of blackberries all down the river, like everywhere. And to the point where a lot of them wouldn't even get in touch, there's so many. And I think, you know, the fact

1:39:01 that they're allowing now the salmon to go back down the river, you're going to start seeing a lot more in that area pop off because they weren't allowed to run salmon for so long. And now that that's a thing now, that place, I think, will start, you know, being, being, uh, a lot of activity, but it's just finding, you know, uh, down here, animals are smaller. I don't know if it's just due to the, the way the sun beats down on the nutrition all the time, uh, or is it they're sweating all the time or whatever, but is it a good spot where there's a lot of valuable resources in vegetation in this spot, or is it just a little?

1:39:48 And so that's, that's kind of what I'm trying to learn right now. That's as a smart, it's a smart skill to, to get going, Frank, for sure, man, this has been a, a really fun conversation. You're a guy. I feel like I could talk. We talk hours, man. We can hang out. Uh, this has been, this has been a fun time, but, uh, Dude, it's one of the ones I will listen to a few times. There's a lot of good stuff that you shared. But can you take a minute? I think it might be interesting. I know there's people that are curious. Kind of run through, how do you get set up with not only BFRO, but Todd and Charlie? Because you've signed up for all three of them.

1:40:44 The Todd one was funny. I just went on his, you know, at that time, I'm not sure if he's still doing it. I'm pretty sure he still does it. I would go when he's doing a live stream and just start commenting in the comments. Hey, you know, and I just... keep at it. And then Charlie was a little more easy to, to get in touch with because of, uh, uh, you know, he actually hosts events, you know, and stuff. Right. Uh, but Todd, Todd was a little more, you know, he does, but he's not advertising it as much as like, you know, Charlie and some of the BFRO ones, uh, you know, like Miguel, I've reached out to Miguel and, and, uh, Alex, I can't think how to say his last name. The guy from, uh, small town monsters, like Alex Petikoff. Yeah.

1:41:41 Like he just, he just sent me a message just a second ago. And, uh, a lot of it's just been trying to reach through, uh, when they're doing a live feed and, and really try and, and I've been fortunate enough to where they've responded. And, uh, You know, will I ever get a chance to go out with Alec and them? I don't know. The Sailor Sasquatch people, same thing. I reached out to them a few times and, you know, I probably bombarded Sarah with a long text because I'm one of these people. I've been in it long enough now to understand the group in general. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah.

1:42:25 Oh, yeah. I try to give a description of myself. And that I'm not trying to get on there to be filmed just to be filmed. I don't care about that. If we go out and you film, it is what it is. But if we go out and you don't film, I'm not there to be filmed. I'm there to learn and experience this area. And so I try to give a background on myself. Just give them an idea of who I am personally because... Sometimes meeting strangers sucks because, you know. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. Yeah. So hopefully in one day, because I would love to go to Washington and Oregon.

1:43:12 You got to. You really got to, dude. And I knew you've been to, you go to Oregon every year or have been going to Oregon. I try to. The years I don't have cancer. Yeah. Yeah right who knew um yeah i haven't gotten to washington yet but oregon two times yeah. Well see like that's those are two states that i want to go to after uh reading uh lyle blackburn some of his books east texas southeast oklahoma arkansas those are places i've been wanting to go to i want to i really want to go up into uh The Northeast, because I don't think that place gets enough attention.

1:43:56 No, I don't think it does. Yeah. And the only person I've been able to really find out there is the Adirondack Bigfoot. And, you know, and if they reach back to me, great. If not, I'm going to go regardless. But it's I would like to be able to come in contact with people that can kind of point me in a direction where saying, hey, whether it's with them or not with them. here's a good spot if you're interested. Uh, and you know, people are tricky about letting you into their areas too. So, Oh, there's a whole trust thing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I totally get it. Yep. Oh, I mean, I try to, I try to, cause a lot of these people don't really do expeditions or if they do anything like that, besides like the BFRO and KBRO and, uh, you know, it's usually private ones. So, and then once they're private, It's kind of like if you're in the know or in the group, then you get invited each time they go out. So, you know, there's not really new people in there. So I try to talk. I try to reach out to people and just stay humble as I can and say, look. I would be very interested in trying to learn.

1:45:14 Frank, this has been, this has been a really fun conversation. I would say, I know you're going to keep me up to date with stuff because you're, you send me some, some amazing emails. So I do appreciate, I appreciate you doing that. But keep us in the loop with what's going on. If you do get out to Washington, Oregon, would love to, would love to, to hear about that. Is there, so you've, you've got the podcast. Are there any things that you want listeners to make sure that they know they can follow you or reach out to you? Anything like that? Well, you can use, uh, F Middleton 33 at yahoo.com. Uh, you know, I'm part of the Squatch in Florida group.

1:46:05 I'm not always out with them when they go out, you know, you can reach out to them. Uh, Me and Richard Fraberry, Richard reached out to me and asked me if I would do it, and I told him I would, and he's a good dude, and he's got a lot of knowledge and has a lot of contacts with people, and so I'm starting to get in with that. So Sasquatch Unredacted and Squatch in Florida, and eventually... Me and a girl named Leah Obladi, she's the girl that got me into tracking. We're going to try to start a thing. It's not going to be entirely just based on Bigfoot or whatever. It's going to be involved with Bigfoot, but it's also going to have tracking, you know, just teaching tracks and learning tracking or just showing tracking and how...

1:47:02 just being out and just showing, just tracking videos and include Sasquatch involved with it. And eventually, once that becomes a thing, I'll let you know about that. But right now, just Sasquatch Unredacted and Squatch in Florida. And you can use fmiddleton33 at yahoo.com. And, you know, hopefully we'll link up there. Jeremiah, it's always been a pleasure, man. You, you was the first guy I reached out to when I got into this and you've always had a special spot there for me.

1:47:43 Well, we will, we will keep in touch, Frank, of course, and we'll, we'll touch base with you in the future. Thank you so much for coming on the show there. Yes, sir, man. God bless. Bye. Before we wrap this episode, I want to say something directly to a very specific group of listeners. If you're in the military, any branch or forces, and if you've seen something that no one can explain, or if you're a national park ranger or forestry worker who's been told to stay quiet, if you're a pilot who's seen something strange down on the ground, or if you're with the FBI, a federal agency, or working intelligence, and you stumbled upon something you're not allowed to talk about, and if you're a firefighter, paramedic, or search and rescue responder who's heard screams or found tracks that didn't make sense, if you're in the logging industry on a remote oil field or a trucker with government contracts, and you've had something happen that you've never told a soul, And if you're a biologist, a wildlife specialist, or a field researcher under contract who has found evidence you're not allowed to report, if you're a pastor, a missionary, or someone on a spiritual retreat and you saw something that shook your faith, or if you work in the shadows, CIA, NSA, or anything with clearance, and you've seen what the public hasn't, then I want to talk to you. Even if it's anonymous, you can reach me. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast. Every encounter we share reminds us

1:49:16 that the world is bigger and stranger than we think, and that the truth is often hiding just beyond the tree line. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the channel on YouTube. Hit the bell so you don't miss the next episode and share this with a friend who's into mysteries, monsters, or the unexplained. And if you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple Podcast, please follow the show there and leave us a five-star positive review because all that helps more people discover the show.

1:49:56 And remember, if you or someone you know has had a Bigfoot sighting, please, I'd love to hear from you. So email me at bigfootsociety at gmail.com. And let's start the conversation. If you haven't gotten a chance yet, check out our membership community over at www.bigfootsocietypodcast.com. And that's where you can hear tomorrow's episode today early and ad-free and members-only episodes every week. Also, it's a place to connect with other people that are into the Bigfoot subject as much as you are. Thanks again for following along with the Bigfoot Society. Until next time, keep your eyes open, trust your gut, and never stop asking what else might be out there. And see you in the woods.