Oct. 8, 2024

The Rise of W.A.R.G: A Conversation with Brian Brown | Area X, SE Oklahoma

Join us as we delve deep into the world of Bigfoot with Mr. Brian Brown, a seasoned researcher and founder of several Bigfoot-related forums and podcasts. In this episode, Brian shares his experiences investigating the elusive wood ape in the remote...

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Season 1

Join us as we delve deep into the world of Bigfoot with Mr. Brian Brown, a seasoned researcher and founder of several Bigfoot-related forums and podcasts. In this episode, Brian shares his experiences investigating the elusive wood ape in the remote valleys of Southeast Oklahoma. From founding the Bigfoot Forum in 2002 to his current work with the Wood Ape Research Group (WARG), we explore his many encounters and research findings. Brian recounts detailed sightings and interactions, such as seeing a large gray ape through a gap in the trees and having close encounters in camp where apes poked at tents and displayed aggressive behaviors. We also learn about the unique features of Area X, the nut-cracking stations, and strange lights observed in the woods. Watch as we uncover the unique behaviors and potential social structures of these elusive primates, and discuss the challenges and methodologies of collecting evidence in such rugged terrain.

Resources:Tag 7 paper (NAWAC) - https://www.woodape.org/index.php/tag7/

Audio Catalog from NAWAC - https://www.woodape.org/index.php/catalog-of-recorded-audio/

You can find the Wood Ape episode of Rob Lowe's show here on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/The-Lowe-Files-Season-1/dp/B074CLQBD4

Share your Bigfoot encounter with me here: bigfootsociety@gmail.com

Want to call in and leave a voicemail of your encounters for the podcast - Check this out here - https://www.speakpipe.com/bigfootsociety
(Use multiple voice mails if needed!)

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Recommended Playlist – New Jersey Bigfoot Encounters - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3t1vwtsKh-Mk4032IyZtWgP6LVPU8uat

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Bigfoot Society and now let's get on with the show.

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All right, bigfot Society, You've got the privilege of talking

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to mister Brian Brown today. Brian Brown is an individual

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that you may have heard his name in different things

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associated with Bigfoot over the years. In two thousand and two,

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he founded the Bigfoot for him. He also started the

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Bigfoot Information Project podcast, and of course a lot of

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people know him from The Bigfoot Show, which launched in

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two thousand and seven. He was part of the newac

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where he served on the board directors.

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There.

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He helped launch the podcast Apes among Us back in

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the day, and he's had a ton of time spent

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in the great state of Oklahoma looking into what is

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called down there the Wood Ape. So, Brian, it's a

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pleasure to have you on the show today. Thanks for

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coming on.

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Now, it's my pleasure. This is this is great. I'm

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excited to be.

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Here, absolutely, Brian. I wanted to have you on because

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there's so we were talking in the pre show. There's

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so much media and things you can find about those

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things that I just talked about that you've been involved with. Yeah,

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you're involved with some things now. The organization is called WARG.

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What WARG is what a research group. That's what we

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call ourselves. And honestly, we're just a group of friends.

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We most of us, if not all of us, I

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think about it, most of us are former any w

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a C members. We wanted to continue to go out

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into the field and work together and hang out together,

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and so we created this group to sort of support

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that effort. And you know, we've we've done some you know,

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internal fundraising in the group. We've we've procured some equipment

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like a thermal and things like that, some audio quarders.

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So we're just trying to continue our work and continue

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to work together in these in these areas that we've

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spent so much time in already. And so yeah, it's

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that's that's pretty much it. We're we're we're not that big,

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we don't have a huge public profile, but we do.

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We do get out at least once sometimes twice a year.

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In fact, I just got back from a week spent

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in the Oregon Forest actually with a couple of WARD members,

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and we're planning another trip into what is sort of

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largely referred to as Area X sometime next spring.

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That's that's extremely interesting. So you guys are I would

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assume that from what I've picked up from different places

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you are close to. I don't know, did you call

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the whole region down there's Area X, like ANYWC doesn't

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own the region Area X, but you kind of made

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it a little bit bigger and broader, so it's other

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areas as well.

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One of the ways that I think it's best to

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find if you go back to the any of the

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Very Sea and you look at the TAG seven paper,

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which is the radio tag work that happened while I

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was in the group, and that animal was tagged, and

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the various times that the group was able to actually

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track it and see where it was. That the geographic

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region was much larger than just the valley that the

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group was working in. And that was really interesting because

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for a long time we didn't really understand what the

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range of these animals were. We didn't really understand what

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if there was anything unique about the particular valley that

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up to that point had been called the area X.

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And what we saw on that TAG seven data is

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that the animal that was tagged moved all around that

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region in and out of that valley into neighboring valleys.

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If you've ever looked on a map at the washatas

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in southeastern Oklahoma, you'll see that there's all these sort

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of adjoining drainages, and there's all these valleys that sort

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of are over the ridge from each other. But there's

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lots and lots of habitat in areas, so it does

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make some certain sense that these animals wouldn't necessarily be

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locked into particular valleys. So the way that we started

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me the people in warg and I think also the

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people in the Nawac, we started talking about sort of

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the that region, that sort of series of watersheds and

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drainages all being basically area X so that it isn't

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like there's dotted line on the map that says it

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exactly where it is. But I would say that that

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all of those valleys neighboring with one another. In my mind,

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that's all area x so, not only the specific valley

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that the ana w a C Works in that I've

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been in, you know, many times over the years, but

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also the neighboring ones and literally what we in the

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wood A Research Group, we're we're in the valley next door,

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so we're very close, and we didn't really know it

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was going to happen when we went in there. It's

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a very different scenario. None of the property in there

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is owned by anyone in the group. It's not private,

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a lot of it is public lands. We weren't sure

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if we were going to have any encounters in there,

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but it turns out that we have. So it just

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goes to show I think it supports what the radio

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tag information showed us is that these animals are sort

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of all around that region and they're not just they're

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not just inhabiting the one valley that the INADAC has

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been in for so long. You know, if you've listened

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to the ANC podcast, there's an episode or where we

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talk about what the group calls old gray, which which

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may be one large gray ape or it could be

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a number of large gray apes. But we have seen

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large gray apes, either individually or a number of them

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in the valley that they work in. I've seen that

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ape in that valley. I've also seen a gray ape

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in the valley we work in. Is it the same,

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I don't know, but it could be. It's not that

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far away. It's a very large animal with presumably a

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large range. So it's it's it's really an unknown. We

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don't know if they are exactly the same animals or

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if they are a related group of animals. That's that's

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just one of those unknowns that we probably will never

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have the answer to you.

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Honestly, I think it would be good to take a

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few minutes to kind of focus on what does WARG

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view this creature as as an organization and what is

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the main end goal?

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No, I think that what we're trying to do now

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is just collect evidence. Like I said, We've We've invested

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in an a thermal affirmal unit that has video recording capabilities.

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We've invested in some sound and a sound recorder an ARU,

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So we're trying to collect evidence. We are our missions,

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such as it is is is pretty modest. Because we

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understand what our what our capabilities are, and you know

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how many people are in the group, There's only so

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much that we can do. We don't have nearly enough

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people in the group to put on sort of you know,

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multi week operations where we have various teams all changed together.

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So we're just trying to collect We're just trying to

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collect data. We're trying to collect evidence at this point,

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so and that would be you know, any of the

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things I said so, Thermal footage would be fantastic. We

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don't have any of that yet. Audio would be fantastic.

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We do have some really interesting audio. I don't know

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that any of it is so unique that you've not

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heard things similar to it out on the internet, but

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we have collected some interesting audio. You know. We'd be

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interested in finding track information, footprint information. It's very hard

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in that substrate in the washatahs to collect the animal tracks,

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but we would love to see that. Now. I don't

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think any of these things are necessarily going to prove

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the animal to someone who already doesn't accept that it

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might be possible, but that's pretty much what we're doing.

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And of course we're all friends, so we want to

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hang out together and have a good time doing it.

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That makes total sense. How many years have you guys

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been in this area as an organization warg.

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Uh twenty twenty. I'm going to say so about four years.

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I think that's about when. Everything now in my mind

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is like did it happen before the pandemic or after?

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And I'm pretty sure that we came together in twenty twenty,

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so I'm pretty sure that's the first time we went

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in there and the area that we operated. An actually

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funny story about that when back in the day, if

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you remember that, Rob Lowe had a TV show called

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The Low Files two Kids, and you know, they went

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all over the place I'm in I'm in one of

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those episodes, and the place that we took them. We

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didn't take them into Area X proper. We didn't take

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them into like the area that the NAWAC worked in,

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mostly because it's just too hard to get into. They

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had this whole production career with like you know, trailers

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and you know, RVs and things. So we took them

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into the neighboring valley and we had some really interesting

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things happened that night with mom below and his kids present,

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and so that's basically kind of the nexus of where

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we operate. We don't stay exactly in that spot all

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the time, but that whole valley is where we are

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operating right now. And again, because we had so much

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really cool stuff happen that one night that we were

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there with Robblo, they didn't have enough time, they didn't

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actually want to be there overnight. They just wanted to

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come in and shoot and then leave. So there was

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really no way we could have taken them into the

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actual spot that has you know before that one valley

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called air X. It just takes too long to get

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into and some of the roads are really not great.

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And again they had a whole Hollywood production team. They

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had three RVs and you know, different vehicles. It was

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a real sort of like a caravan of Hollywood bizarreness

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in Oklahoma, like the likes of which I'm sure Oklahoma

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has never seen. And so we could we couldn't really

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take them in there. But again we took them right

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next door, and we didn't really know what to expect,

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but it was a tremendous night. Actually I heard two whoops,

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a whoop and a return. Standing right next to Rob,

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we heard these amazingly clear whoops, a call and a

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return from one from one side of the creek and

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one on our side of the creek. Another guy in warded,

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Brandon Lenz, he saw an ape through a thermal device

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that did not have the canpability to record, so he

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saw an ape that way, we heard and the Lows

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heard various vocalizations like like ape sounds, you know, like

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kind of sounds. It was. It was a crazy It

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00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:32.679
was a crazy night. We had all kinds of cool

218
00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:37.240
stuff happening. And that was like literally from I don't know,

219
00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:40.519
two three hours before sunset to about I don't know

220
00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:43.200
one or two in the morning thereabouts, So it wasn't

221
00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:45.840
a huge amount of time and all kinds of crazy

222
00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:49.000
place it was. It was amazing. It was awesome, and

223
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none of it, none of it showed up on the

224
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TV show. If you watch the show, you don't get

225
00:11:53.320 --> 00:11:56.360
any of that. Unfortunately, that's terrible.

226
00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:01.320
But yeah, that's that's Hollywood, right. Yeah, when you started

227
00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:05.120
going back into this valley and you started up oreg

228
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in twenty twenty, was there a situation where it just

229
00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:13.759
something off the wall happened and you're like, Okay, we

230
00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:17.759
are in the right place. This is really intense.

231
00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:24.480
You know, it has it. I would say that again,

232
00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:29.000
we had an inclination that there were the apes were

233
00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:31.679
there because of this this night we spent there with Roblow,

234
00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:35.399
and also we had been scoping out other areas when

235
00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:36.600
I was still in the any of Doba a c.

236
00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:39.360
We had sort of explored this valley and a couple

237
00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:41.440
of our members had gone in there and had also

238
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.039
experienced in things that seemed really ap related. So we

239
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:46.879
had a really good idea that there were going to

240
00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:48.639
be apes in the valley, and there's really no reason

241
00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:51.399
for there not to be. It's a little easier to

242
00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:56.480
get into, but the environment and the lack of any

243
00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:00.840
sort of normal human activity is almost exactly the same

244
00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:04.320
as the neighboring valley. There are roads that go through them,

245
00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.039
they're pretty darn rough once you get in there a

246
00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:09.159
little ways, Like at this point in my life, I

247
00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:10.840
don't think I'm going to drive down one of those

248
00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:13.200
roads anymore because I've done so much damage to my

249
00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.480
truck over the years. But the people that go through

250
00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.120
there are almost always a tv years. Obviously, hunting season

251
00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:23.039
is a big deal, but you go one hundred feet

252
00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:25.600
off the road and you're in areas that people just

253
00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:29.159
don't go. They're just not penetrated by human beings. And

254
00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:30.639
if you look on a map, if you look on

255
00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:34.399
the satellite map, you can see like whole drainages, valleys

256
00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:36.960
that have no roads in them whatsoever, that are probably

257
00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:40.960
that a human being goes into maybe once a year,

258
00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:45.279
and if that often so it's pretty remote, even though

259
00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:49.480
it's maybe fifty percent easier to get to than the

260
00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:52.600
neighboring valley where the other group works. So we had

261
00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:54.440
no reason to believe that there wasn't going to be

262
00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.320
apes in the valley, and we're sort of pleasantly surprised.

263
00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.480
Not pleasant, not surprised at all, but it's sort of,

264
00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:04.000
you know, it's nice that when we go in there

265
00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:10.159
we can still have some experiences, and I think that

266
00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:12.399
is one of them. I don't know if mystery is

267
00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:14.559
the right word, but it is one of the questions

268
00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:18.759
that this area presents. Why are there so many Why

269
00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:21.679
is it so often that if you go in there

270
00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:23.879
for a period of time and do the right things,

271
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.159
Why why so often is it possible to either see

272
00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.320
or hear or in some way interact with an ape

273
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.320
in this part of the world. It is, It is truly,

274
00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:39.519
truly amazing. And again, I just spent a week near

275
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:44.120
Mount Hood in Oregon, following the direction of Cliff Bartman.

276
00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:46.600
He sort of gave us a general idea of where

277
00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:48.639
we should go and was really generous with his time,

278
00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:52.600
and and it was an entirely different experience, you know.

279
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:57.120
So it is it really just showed to me, highlighted

280
00:14:57.240 --> 00:15:02.279
the uniqueness and incredible just habitat the area. X represents

281
00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:04.039
that you know, you can go there for a week

282
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:07.440
and you have a reasonably good chance of having some

283
00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:12.000
kind of of ap related experience up to and including visuals,

284
00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:14.639
which we've had multiples in the four years that we've

285
00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:15.200
been over there.

286
00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:19.519
Not to get two sidetracked, but just really curious, what

287
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:22.000
was the main reason to go off to the mount

288
00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:25.879
Hood area when you have access to this area in

289
00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:29.639
southeast Oklahoma, which is probably like people would kind of

290
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:31.440
nuts in order to get there, right.

291
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:37.600
Like, Honestly, it's because I've been going into these very

292
00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.919
same mountains since oh gosh, what was it two thousand

293
00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:44.879
and six? Oh wow, I think two and six, two

294
00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:47.440
thousand and seven. One of those is when I first

295
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.360
went in there, and there are some years. There was

296
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.200
one year I think I went down there three times.

297
00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:54.440
I live in Minnesota, right, so it's an all day

298
00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:56.399
drive to get down there. There was one year I

299
00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:58.399
think I went in there three times. There were multiple

300
00:15:58.480 --> 00:15:59.559
years where I went twice.

301
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:21.399
Big for Society, who will be right back after these messages, I've.

302
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.879
Covered those and in several of us. You know, the

303
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.240
folks that went to Oregon, we were looking for just

304
00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.799
a change of scenery, and I kind of want to

305
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:35.720
know more about other areas. Comparing contrast, like I feel

306
00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:40.080
like I know a lot about these valleys in southeast

307
00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:44.799
n Oklahoma, I don't know a lot about how apes

308
00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:47.960
are in other areas, and I would like to know more.

309
00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:49.799
So I think this is going to be kind of

310
00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:51.879
a thing I like, at least personally. I'd like to

311
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.559
probably have a trip down to Oklahoma every year and

312
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.159
then a trip to some other area where we know

313
00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:00.799
apes exists. For example, next year, I'd love to go

314
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:05.240
to the Blues in eastern Oregon because so much stuff

315
00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:08.039
happens there. So I think it's just a change of pace,

316
00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:10.640
and also just trying to become a more sort of

317
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.240
well rounded researcher or more having a better idea of

318
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:19.319
all of these various habitats. I have been in northern California,

319
00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:23.720
I've been in the Peninsulas, I've been in Idaho, but

320
00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:26.240
I've never spent anything near the amount of time in

321
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:29.279
any of those places like I have down in Oklahoma.

322
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.359
It makes sense to look at it that way. Were

323
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:34.640
there any lessons that you took away from your time

324
00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:37.519
der mount Hood that will affect your research when you

325
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:38.759
get down to Oklahoma.

326
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:43.319
Next to really good question, I think the biggest I

327
00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:46.559
would say probably no, because we tried all the things

328
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:49.200
that we do when we're in Oklahoma, and they didn't

329
00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:52.480
really seem to have the stuff. When we go into Oklahoma,

330
00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:55.119
we're we go into x over the area around there.

331
00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:57.160
One of the things we do is we try to

332
00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:00.680
insert ourselves into their environment. You know, we go we'd

333
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:03.359
spent a lot of time walking the roads, but also

334
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.079
cutting across country and really sort of making a show

335
00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:09.599
of inserting ourselves into the area. Because one of the

336
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:12.759
things that I believe is that these apes, one of

337
00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:14.799
the they will follow you back to camp. They will

338
00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:16.880
come back to camp with you. And I have lots

339
00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:19.440
of reasons to believe this. I had lots of experiences

340
00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:22.160
that back this up that if you put yourself out

341
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.160
where they are, they will come back and observe. They

342
00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.359
are incredibly curious animals and they are very patient animals.

343
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:32.599
They will spend they will be they will just sit

344
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.440
there and watch you in camp, and that's what we want, right,

345
00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:39.119
So we did that exact same thing in when we

346
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:41.519
were in Oregon in your menthood, and that did not

347
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:43.920
happen as far as we know. We you know, we

348
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:47.720
were looking, we had our thermal, We had nothing around

349
00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.680
camp for the entire week that really felt in any

350
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:54.400
way apish at all like and that's just not how

351
00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:56.640
it is in Oklahoma at all. And one of the

352
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.880
reasons I think that is is because when we were there,

353
00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:01.759
even during the week, there are a lot of people

354
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:04.599
in those woods. You know, the forest where we were

355
00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.440
mountain Hood is you know, less than two hours from Portland,

356
00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:09.200
which is a city with millions of people in it,

357
00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:11.599
and there were lots of people in the woods that

358
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:14.119
we were in. The roads that we were driving on

359
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:16.240
were paved. For Pete's sake, I mean, I felt like

360
00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:18.279
I was cheating. I was big footing off of a

361
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:20.759
paved road. This is not what I'm used to. And

362
00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:23.920
so I think that people humans in that habit that

363
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:27.640
just aren't as interesting, you know, they aren't as novel

364
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:31.519
as they are in Area X. Again, I think people

365
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:36.400
will drive through on ATVs and things, but it's really

366
00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.519
I think unusual for humans to go into that area

367
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:42.920
and stick around for a week at a time and

368
00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:47.279
trapes through the woods off of the beaten path, you know, literally,

369
00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:50.880
you know, trapesing through greenbrier and things like that. That's

370
00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:54.400
really unusual. I don't think in Oregon it's that unusual.

371
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:56.319
So I don't think people are that interesting to the

372
00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:58.799
apes there, at least this is my supposition, right, based

373
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:02.000
on my entire week of being there. So I think

374
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:08.119
that that what I learned was that our our approach

375
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:14.920
to eliciting ape interaction just didn't work in Oregon. And

376
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:17.079
so it's and I also think you have to look

377
00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:19.680
at the environment. You know, I was, as I was

378
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.240
looking at the maps, there are wilderness areas that are

379
00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.240
very close to where we were that are many times

380
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:30.200
larger than what I would refer to as Area X, right,

381
00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:34.519
So like these animals can retreat into this wilderness area

382
00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:37.599
and never see a person and never be bothered by

383
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:41.319
a person. So I think one of the interesting things

384
00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:43.279
about X in my mind, I've always thought of it

385
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.640
as sort of like a tide pool. You know, It's

386
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:51.279
like the surrounding forests have been divided and clear cut

387
00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:55.160
and turned into you know, timber farms and you know,

388
00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:58.759
things like that. People have moved in and so the regions,

389
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.319
the areas that are the hardest to do that kind

390
00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:03.920
of stuff and have remained sort of untouched, and so

391
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.680
they are kind of a forest tidepool where the animals

392
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:11.279
in the area can retreat into these areas and be

393
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.160
in fairly high concentration. When you're in Oregon, the Pacific,

394
00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:20.240
Northwest Washington, Oregon, northern California, it's just vast. It's vast

395
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:24.519
areas of forest, and so you might have the same

396
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:28.039
number of animals, but the animals per square kilometer in

397
00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:31.240
Oklahoma is going to be a lot higher. That's my perception.

398
00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.640
That's what i've that's what I figured out. We did

399
00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:37.279
have some interesting interesting things happen in near mount Hood.

400
00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:40.920
We heard wood knocks, we were doing rock clocks, and

401
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.559
how to return from a drainage area down by a creek.

402
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:46.880
We found a track with cliff So there's definitely apes

403
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.960
there and I think if you have a trained ear,

404
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:50.799
you can pick up on some of those things. But

405
00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:53.720
we never had anything like an encounter the way that

406
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:55.799
we would I don't know if I would say that

407
00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:57.720
we would expect to have it in Oklahoma, but the

408
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.799
way that we have had many time lines in Oklahoma.

409
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:02.200
Nothing like that happened in Oregon.

410
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.359
Back to Oklahoma. So, over these last few years that

411
00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.440
you've been down in this valley, have you also been

412
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:14.319
able to have a class A sightings in the valley

413
00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:15.119
that you're in now?

414
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.759
Yes, yeah, I can. Off the top of my head,

415
00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:20.519
I can think of two of them. I'm gonna get

416
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:22.400
the years wrong because I'm not good at this stuff.

417
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:24.160
My brain just doesn't work this way. But I'm going

418
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:26.920
to say I think it was two years ago, so

419
00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:29.799
like twenty twenty two. I was in there with a

420
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:32.440
group of let's see, there was Rich and Steve and

421
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:36.000
Brandon and so there's like four other guys plus me

422
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:38.680
and five other guys plus me, so it's a pretty

423
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:42.839
big group sick guys. And we were hiking down this

424
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:45.400
road and we again, this is what we do. We

425
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:48.640
just spent we hike miles and miles and miles over

426
00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:50.960
the course of the time that we're in these areas.

427
00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.920
And we walked all the way down this road. In

428
00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:55.880
some parts it's really not a road. You're sort of

429
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.640
scrambling over boulders and creek beds and things like that.

430
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.200
But it was a pretty long hike and we were

431
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:06.480
tuckered when we got to this sort of little intersection

432
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:10.519
it's like a tee where the road ended butted into

433
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:13.599
another road, And so we were just sitting there, resting,

434
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:16.480
taking a break, and I was sitting on a rock

435
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:18.200
in the middle of the road, and I was looking

436
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.839
into the forest across from me. And it's one of

437
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:22.960
those situations if you've been in the forest and sometimes

438
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:24.799
there's just like these weird little slots where all of

439
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:26.880
a sudden you can see like really deep into the forest,

440
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:29.559
like for no particular reason, just because the trees grew

441
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:31.799
in a certain way so that you would have, you know,

442
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:35.920
visibility deep in And as I was sitting there, I

443
00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:41.079
saw a large gray thing walk through this gap in

444
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:44.319
the trees, this like long sort of slot that allowed

445
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:46.279
me to see deep into the forest. And I saw

446
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.359
this thing walk through, and even me, even in twenty

447
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.119
twenty two, after having been in the area for you know,

448
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:54.960
at that point a long time, more than a decade,

449
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:59.119
and having had sort of multiple visuals of these apes,

450
00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:01.200
even at that point, but the first thing my brain

451
00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:03.680
said was like, who's that guy? Like who's that like?

452
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:05.680
Because it was like, it's not one of my guys like,

453
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.440
they're all sitting right here around me, right, And then

454
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.319
almost as soon as it was out of sight, this

455
00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:14.319
visual lasted, you know, a second, right, because it was

456
00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:16.680
as long as it could take this thing to move

457
00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.640
from left to right through this gap in the trees.

458
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:22.400
In my mind's like, that wasn't a guy, you idiot,

459
00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:24.960
That wasn't an ape, right, So I said, like, I

460
00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:26.960
think I just saw an ape. We did our thing,

461
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:29.519
you know. The guys went in there and I stayed

462
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.319
where I was to get an idea of size, and

463
00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:34.119
they went in there to see if they could see anything.

464
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.200
They didn't see anything. And what I figured out from

465
00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:41.000
the size is that this thing was really big. It was,

466
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:42.799
I mean, I can't tell you how tall it was,

467
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.200
but it was significantly larger than the guys I was

468
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:48.240
with through were all like, you know, six sheet and

469
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:50.319
under you like. So, I mean, it was a very

470
00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:54.880
large animal, and which is consistent with the gray ones

471
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.039
that we see down there. The gray ones are always

472
00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:01.279
really really big, and so that was prey exciting. And

473
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:03.799
so we kept sitting there and as I was looking

474
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:06.880
down the slot, there was this tree that was sort

475
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:10.880
of like whipping around and and it was a pine tree,

476
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.400
and it was interesting to me because there was a

477
00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:15.920
little bit of wind, but this tree was moving a

478
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:20.599
lot more than the amount of wind that we had

479
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:23.079
suggested it should, and I thought that was weird, right.

480
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:27.000
It didn't occur to me that it was aprilated. It was.

481
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:30.240
So I just sort of looked at this tree from

482
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:32.920
time to time. And this guy, Steve, who was in

483
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:35.960
there with us, he's like really dialed in when he's

484
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.920
in the valley. He pays attention to things, and so

485
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:41.319
he was looking at this tree and he had he

486
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:43.720
was right behind my left shoulder, looking down the slot

487
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:45.319
at this tree, and I was kind of that I'd

488
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:47.480
already seen my ape, right, so I kind of wasn't

489
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:50.319
paying attention. He exclaimed that there was a monkey in

490
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:51.839
the tree. That's what he said, There's a monkey in

491
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:53.920
that tree. And as soon as he said it, I

492
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:56.000
looked up and what I saw was like the rear

493
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.359
end of two other guys because they all sort of

494
00:25:58.400 --> 00:25:59.960
jumped in front of me to look down the slot.

495
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:02.640
And what they saw I saw nothing because they were

496
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.680
in my way. That's okay, I already saw my eph

497
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:07.960
that day. What they saw was a black animal all

498
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:11.400
black in this pine tree, and they saw it drop

499
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.720
out of the tree sort of hanging, so the tree

500
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:16.599
was like it had bent over at a forty five

501
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:18.880
degree angle and it was hanging from the top of

502
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:21.720
the tree. It let go, dropped to the ground, the

503
00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:24.440
tree whipped up, and then it sort of walked off.

504
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:30.359
And this was not even half an hour after my visual.

505
00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:34.279
Clearly a different animal. Now, what's interesting about this is

506
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:40.119
a couple of things that whipping trees, getting into a tree,

507
00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:42.920
high up in a tree, and sort of rocking back

508
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.920
and forth, possibly an attempt to break it. That is

509
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.960
the thing that we've seen them do. I've literally seen

510
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:51.400
an ape do that. We've heard them do that. We

511
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.799
know that they go up into trees and break the

512
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:57.799
trees by sort of like rocking back and forth on

513
00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:00.079
the thing until it snaps right. I don't know if

514
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:01.880
that's what this ape was doing, but it was definitely

515
00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:05.400
trying to shake this tree in some kind of display.

516
00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:08.559
I don't know, So that's interesting. That's behavior that we've

517
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:12.359
that we've seen before, that we've recorded before in those valleys.

518
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.640
And also there were two animals, which is also something

519
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:19.039
I think it's not unique to Area X. But it's

520
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:21.119
very very common in an Area X that if you

521
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:23.880
see an eight, there is another ape there. Often. We

522
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:26.039
have a lot of reports, both in the old group

523
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:29.839
and in our group of seeing pairs of animals, So

524
00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:33.279
that is also really interesting to me. It's just it's

525
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.119
just a common thing in the Area X to see

526
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:39.160
two animals together. That's what we saw that day. That

527
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:41.680
just happened two years ago. That was pretty cool, and

528
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:46.279
and so that's an example of the kinds of things

529
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.039
we've had. Just last year, Steve was there again. Steve,

530
00:27:50.119 --> 00:27:52.319
like I said, he's a he's a bird dog. We

531
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:56.000
had gone on a long hike around I was exhausting.

532
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:58.279
I remember thinking that I was getting too old for

533
00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:01.000
this stuff. But anyway, we've done a really hausting long hike.

534
00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:04.920
We were back at camp and Steve was standing there

535
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:08.400
with the binoculars like burning binoculars, and burning binoculars are

536
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:10.000
a monocular. I forget what he had actually now that

537
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:11.960
I mentioned it, but he was he was sort of

538
00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:15.839
just standing around with this, you know, I think it

539
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:19.920
was a monocular and he and I it's just I

540
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:22.200
remember sitting there thinking looking at him, like God, he's

541
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:24.279
just like sit down. Take a rest man. We just

542
00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:26.359
got back from the super long hike, and you're still

543
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.279
doing it, right, You're still doing the thing. But because

544
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:34.279
he was doing that, he saw an ape behind a tree,

545
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:38.440
sort of looking around the tree at us. And it

546
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:41.440
was far enough away that maybe it didn't think that

547
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:46.119
Steve could see it. But Steve exclaimed to the group

548
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:48.519
that he saw in ape looking from behind the tree.

549
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:50.359
And so one of the guys, Rich and one of

550
00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:52.799
the guy's Brandon, who were both burders and had binoculars,

551
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.440
they went to where he was. I went over there too.

552
00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:59.000
I didn't have anything to use to enhance my vision,

553
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:02.079
so I didn't see anything. But they're, you know, I

554
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:07.880
don't know, maybe gosh, sixty seventy yards maybe a little

555
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:11.200
further than that away there was a tree, and all

556
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:14.480
three of them saw various parts of this animal. Steve

557
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.440
probably had the best view, the longest view, but they

558
00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:21.000
all saw basically black fur behind this tree, standing up

559
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.319
behind the tree, observing us. Which again, that's exactly what

560
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:26.279
we want them to do. That's what we think they're

561
00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:27.839
going to do when we go on these long heights,

562
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:29.400
that we're going to bring them back to camp and

563
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:32.240
we can sort of watch them or have some other

564
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:34.599
experience with them in that way. So those are just

565
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:36.680
two examples off the top of my head of visuals

566
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:39.240
we've had that are very reminiscent of the things that

567
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:42.200
would happen, you know, next door in the other valley.

568
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.720
So yeah, definitely still having visuals, still having experiences, And

569
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:48.279
those are just the visuals we've had, you know, wood

570
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:54.720
knocks and how tight vocalizations and whoops and all the

571
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:57.759
sort of regular laundry list of things you would expect

572
00:29:57.799 --> 00:29:59.400
from a week in area.

573
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.279
You guys have actually had it sounds like visuals of

574
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:06.000
the face. And I've talked to a lot of people

575
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:10.880
over the years, and it's fascinating how people tend to

576
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:15.440
sometimes describe it like different types of apes. Rangutan comes up,

577
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.799
stuff like that. From what you guys are seeing down there,

578
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.519
does it remind you particularly of any certain type of

579
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:28.359
ape or is it its own special type of new ape.

580
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:32.920
I've not had extended visuals of a face with that

581
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:35.559
kind of detail, so I can only speak sort of

582
00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:39.880
in secondhand. I believe the way that Steve described this animal,

583
00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:42.519
because he saw you know, one half to sixty percent

584
00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:44.759
of this animal's face as it was looking around, it

585
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:45.599
was black.

586
00:30:46.319 --> 00:31:05.400
Big for society who will be right back after these messages, I.

587
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:08.640
Believe it was black skin. Again, this wasn't my encounter,

588
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:13.079
but it was ape looking, right, It wasn't people looking.

589
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:15.640
It didn't look like a human face. Now it's really

590
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:20.400
I was just at Cliff Bergman's museum in Boring, Oregon,

591
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.839
and one of the things that they have on display

592
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:25.920
there is this like, you know, the Bigfoot Face Project.

593
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:27.880
I forget what it's called exactly, but there's this poster

594
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:32.680
of all the different faces that witnesses have described, you know,

595
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:36.160
and there's quite a lot of variety there, So I

596
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:38.799
know what you're talking about. But I think in this case,

597
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:42.519
from what I recollect, what Steve described or was something

598
00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:46.559
that was that was pretty sort of gorilla looking, So yeah,

599
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:50.000
not a human looking face. That's not what I recollect

600
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:51.519
him how he described it at all.

601
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:53.839
Has there been a time over the last few years

602
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:57.839
where it's just maybe they got too close into camp.

603
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:01.240
I know there's been situations like this over and let's

604
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:03.480
say the old group, But has that happened to you

605
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:05.799
guys where it's like, you guys are they're too close.

606
00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:10.680
They're yeah, pretty much on top of us now, you know, yeah.

607
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:14.839
I think that they have come into camp. They've they've

608
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:17.720
walked through camp, They've poked at people in tents in

609
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.319
the valley that we're in. One of the last times

610
00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.720
that we were that we can't really deep into the

611
00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:27.880
valley kind of in that same trip where we had

612
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:30.119
the visual of the two different apes on that road,

613
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:32.960
one of them came into camp late at night and

614
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:37.039
woke up Rich and he exclaimed that, you know, I

615
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:38.640
think there's an ape and camp or something like that.

616
00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:41.119
I woke up and he heard it walk up this

617
00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:44.400
trail above our camp. And then as we were sort

618
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:47.920
of like processing that we were all in our separate tents.

619
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:50.759
We didn't come out of the tents very soon after that,

620
00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:55.960
there was just this like the most powerful resident wood

621
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:59.440
knock I've ever heard in that valley. Like it was

622
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:03.000
so powerful, like it I felt it in my chest

623
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:05.519
right this this whatever this ape did, I had no

624
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:09.920
idea how they'd make this sound, but it was clearly

625
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.240
striking a tree, and it was so loud and so powerful,

626
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:18.839
as if to say like I'm still the biggest, baddest

627
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:21.319
you know, mofo in the valley because we were all

628
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:23.319
making a big sound as it came to camp. That's

629
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:28.200
pretty common for them to enter camp in that area.

630
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:29.480
It's kind of what we were hoping was going to

631
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:31.519
happen when we were in near mount Hood. It never

632
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.720
did anything like it. But yeah, so I think that

633
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:38.079
the there are some there's some examples in the old group,

634
00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:44.119
especially in the earlier days, where the animals were really

635
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:49.039
pressing in on us. I have sort of minor PTSD

636
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:50.799
from a week that I one of the first weeks

637
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:53.599
that I spent in there, where that sort of thing happened.

638
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:56.079
I don't know that we've had that kind of experience

639
00:33:56.200 --> 00:33:58.440
in the valley next door, but again, I think that

640
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:01.480
was more common in the early days, and I have

641
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.039
some theories as to why that might be. But it

642
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:07.599
feels to me like they're still very curious. They still

643
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:10.719
come into camp, and they're still poking around, sometimes literally

644
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:15.920
poking at people intense but it doesn't feel like they

645
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:20.039
are quite as close or putting quite the pressure on

646
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:22.239
us as they did in those early days.

647
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:24.880
Is that something that's happened to you specifically where you

648
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:27.360
were poked through the tent or is that other guys

649
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:28.000
in the crew.

650
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:31.360
I've not been poked, not been poked in the tent

651
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:35.440
in Oklahoma. That did happen to me once in Washington State,

652
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.639
but the in area X, Yeah, we've had We've had

653
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:43.519
people poking, prodded. We've had you know, one guy was

654
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:45.559
an animal. I should reach through a window of a

655
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:48.239
cabin and touched him as he was sleeping. So that

656
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:50.880
that is a thing that we've experienced sort of we

657
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:53.320
the royal we not me personally, but the people that

658
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:56.440
I've been in there with, it is not unusual. Like

659
00:34:56.719 --> 00:35:00.400
my current theory of the situation is that the people

660
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:03.800
sleeping intense or people just being there at night, the

661
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:05.960
way that we are when we're in there is kind

662
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.320
of novel. I don't think they see that a lot.

663
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:11.880
And so again they're they're they're very curious, you know,

664
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:15.840
they are definitely obviously primates. They've got great, big brains,

665
00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:21.440
and so we're we're really interesting, I think. So I

666
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:26.039
think that there is some curiosity. And one of my suppositions,

667
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:28.920
one of my theories is the animals that were getting

668
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.239
very close early on, I think they were just young.

669
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:32.960
I think they were young and gumb I think they

670
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:37.480
were really really insatiably curious, and they were willing to

671
00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:41.320
put themselves in a situation that that to us felt

672
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:43.280
very threatening. I don't know that they were actually trying

673
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:46.719
to threaten us, but you know, when you've got six

674
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.880
seven eight foot apes, like you know, hanging out in

675
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.800
the shadows all around you, it does feel a little freaky.

676
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:56.440
And so I think that there was sort of a

677
00:35:56.599 --> 00:36:00.239
youthful exuberance that you might say in the apes at

678
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:02.599
that time that I think they've kind of grown out of.

679
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:05.280
So that's just a personal theory of mine.

680
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:09.039
It makes sense. I totally see that. Something that I

681
00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:12.119
always thought was really interesting mentioned in the Old Group

682
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.440
was how there was that station that was found where

683
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:19.199
it was like the nut cracking station was chos definitely intelligence.

684
00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:21.840
Have you ever found any evidence like that in your

685
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:22.440
value at all?

686
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:26.000
I think I think I found the first one in

687
00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:28.199
the Old group because the first time we saw in

688
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:29.960
that crfing station. I don't know if that's one hundred

689
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:33.119
percent accurate, but I remember that was the first one

690
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:36.239
that we documented really well. In the valley that we're

691
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:39.599
in now, I look for them all the time, and

692
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:43.320
so what you'll often find is, you know, there's the

693
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:47.199
if you're an ape researcher and you're observing like a

694
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:50.199
chimp or something. There's like the hammer rock, which is

695
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:52.119
the small one, and there's the anvil rock, which is

696
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:54.440
the big one. And they smashed things on the big

697
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:58.280
rock with the little rock. Right, So we've found big

698
00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:01.519
rocks that could be anvil rock if these are what

699
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:04.639
if these are nutcracking stations. We have found rocks on

700
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:10.000
top of other rocks. Sometimes there's really old remnants of shells.

701
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.480
I've not found one nearly as good as that first

702
00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:17.039
one where literally there were broken shells of nuts under

703
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:21.119
the hammer rock that were not completely you know, they

704
00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:23.440
were you know, I don't know how long they had

705
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:27.079
been there, but they weren't totally decomposed. I've not found

706
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:29.920
one nearly as good as that first one. But we've

707
00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:33.559
found Yeah, we sometimes will find something that might be

708
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.159
a cracking a nut cracking station, but they're not they're

709
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:39.519
not they're not in a good enough condition to say

710
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:42.000
for sure that that's what they are. When we were

711
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.800
actually the first time we went down that road with

712
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:45.639
the Lows, now that I think about it, we found

713
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:48.960
a nut cracking station. Literally, I don't even know if

714
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:50.360
it was ten feet off the road and it was

715
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:52.320
a good one. It was. It was again, it was

716
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:56.239
it was the hammerstone. There were nuts underneath the stone.

717
00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:58.320
We saw it from the vehicles as we were driving in,

718
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:00.559
so we stopped and showed it to the lows. That

719
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:02.760
might actually be in this show now that I think

720
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:05.679
about it. But that was actually a really good one too.

721
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:09.039
And it was right next to the road, which, you know,

722
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:12.239
weird that they would be sitting there, but again, hardly

723
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:14.840
anybody goes down that road except for maybe the odd

724
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:17.639
ATV or overlander, and you can hear them coming from

725
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:21.079
a pretty far way off. So yeah, so there's there's

726
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.480
We've we've found a couple of those, gotcha, But not

727
00:38:23.559 --> 00:38:25.119
a super good not a super good one in the

728
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:28.400
last couple of years, unfortunately. But I'm always looking. I'm

729
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:29.239
always looking for those.

730
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:34.159
Has there been anything, ever, that's anything weird that's happened

731
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:38.039
or doesn't fit in the paradigm of how you guys

732
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:41.039
view this creature and you're kind of like, I don't

733
00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:43.679
know how we deal with this, but hey, it happened,

734
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:45.320
and we got to make note of it.

735
00:38:48.679 --> 00:38:50.880
Not that I can think of. We've we've seen some

736
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:55.639
weird lights in the woods down there that I have

737
00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.639
no reason to believe that they're necessarily ap elated. We

738
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:02.440
but we've seen some weird lights down there. That is

739
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:05.320
not uncommon. People see lights in the woods, especially in

740
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:08.840
the southeast for some reason. So that has happened. There was,

741
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:12.159
in fact, a couple of years ago, maybe twenty twenty one,

742
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:15.159
something like that, a couple of guys in the group

743
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:21.800
actually sort of watched this light move along down a road.

744
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:24.360
They followed it. They could see it like illuminating the

745
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:27.920
trees as it moved along. Now, some people in the

746
00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:30.639
group think that might have been an ape with extraordinarily

747
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:33.840
bright eyeshine, But there was just the one light. It

748
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:37.280
wasn't like a set of eyes, So I don't know.

749
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:40.400
I didn't see it myself, so I don't know what

750
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:44.280
to make of it. But multiple people saw this illumination.

751
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:47.000
They saw this light, and like I said, some people

752
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:51.079
have interpreted that to be eye shine maybe of an

753
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:53.639
ape where one of its eyes was injured or something.

754
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:56.119
But I don't know that we can say for sure

755
00:39:56.119 --> 00:39:59.719
what that was. But it was it was persistent, It

756
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:02.119
was moving along the ground is going up and over

757
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:05.960
you know, the terrain, and yeah, they observed that for

758
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:09.000
for quite a while. That would be the closest I

759
00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:13.199
mean the other than that, Everything that I've experienced in

760
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:17.599
those valleys I attribute to apes, and they are all

761
00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:20.840
vaguely ape related, like you know, throwing of rocks and

762
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:25.440
you know, tree knocks which are pretty common in the area.

763
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:31.760
You know, displays with you know, shaking foliage or breaking foliage,

764
00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:35.000
the vocalizations that we hear. Pretty much everything else, I

765
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:38.320
would say is pretty classically aped. The light thing is bizarre.

766
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:39.679
I don't know how to say. I don't know what

767
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:42.280
to do with that. I have no idea what's but

768
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:45.280
you know, and again we saw that one and then

769
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:49.079
the next year we saw other lights further away. But

770
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:52.280
again lights in the trees. No clue what those are,

771
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:53.360
no idea whatsoever.

772
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:56.800
There's so many different ways you can you can put that.

773
00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:00.760
And then there's some really interesting research being done in

774
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:04.519
science right now. That's a whole different topic. But from

775
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:07.920
what you've seen in the valley that you're in, do

776
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.960
you think that there could be whole family groups there

777
00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:15.199
or perhaps just adult males or I think.

778
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:18.039
That's definitely what we're seeing. You know there's this concept

779
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:22.599
in biology of refugims where you know animals will go

780
00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:25.880
they feel safe enough to reproduce and have their young,

781
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:28.639
and I think that's what we're looking at in Area X.

782
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:32.360
I think that there's definitely there's definitely little apes being

783
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:36.599
made there, both in Like I said, we often see

784
00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:39.920
them in pairs. People often see two eights, one of

785
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:42.800
which is usually much larger than the other one. My

786
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:46.119
first visual in the valley actually was of two to eight.

787
00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:51.559
Neither of them were The larger of the two was

788
00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:55.440
not so big. It wasn't like a seven or eight

789
00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:58.159
foot tall animal, but it was. It was definitely it

790
00:41:58.199 --> 00:41:59.760
was all of six feet. But the other one was

791
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:02.239
smaller than that. And and they're in the other group.

792
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:07.280
There have been visuals of of small animals, like chimp

793
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:10.960
sized animals. So I think it's definitely the case that

794
00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:14.719
they're reproducing in there. They're what their social structure is

795
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:18.840
I wish I knew. I I think that there's definitely

796
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:24.079
just just based on what I'm seeing, I think that

797
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:29.920
there are I think that there must be a pairing

798
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:34.440
that happens either for a while or maybe longer than that.

799
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:37.760
But again we see animals two different sizes. Maybe the

800
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:39.559
smaller one is the female and the larger one is

801
00:42:39.559 --> 00:42:43.199
the male. But I definitely feel that there is some

802
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:48.119
kind of social structure and these animals are are being

803
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:53.159
together now that is met to say. We haven't seen individuals,

804
00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:55.719
and I think that it's it could be the case

805
00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:57.920
that for a lot of people who see individual apes,

806
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:01.199
those could very well be sort of rogue males quote unquote.

807
00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:04.480
The animal that we tagged when I was in the

808
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.239
old group, that one had a pretty wide range? Was

809
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:10.960
was that one a male that was just sort of like,

810
00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:14.679
you know, doing the rounds, so to speak. I guess

811
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:16.440
I wish I knew more about that. It's one of

812
00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:18.400
the things that I spend the most time thinking about

813
00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:20.159
when I'm out there, as I would love to know

814
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:24.320
how they structure themselves because they're primates. They clearly have

815
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:26.960
a hierarchy. They have some kind of social structure because

816
00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:29.679
all primates do, so I would love to know more

817
00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:31.840
about it. I do think that it is very telling

818
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:35.360
though that we see them often in pairs, often enough

819
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:39.039
that they're clearly pairing up in there and moving around

820
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:42.719
together in pairs. That's definitely happening so I think that

821
00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:45.800
there's there's some there's some kind of pairing that's taking place.

822
00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:49.480
Whether or not those are you know, mother offspring pairings

823
00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:52.320
that we're seeing, I think sometimes they are. Sometimes though

824
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.119
the larger animal is so large that I think it

825
00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:58.639
must be a large male. So anyway, that's that's the

826
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:01.039
best I can say about that. I that we definitely

827
00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:02.960
see pairs, and I think they are pairing up in

828
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:05.559
there for reasons of reproduction.

829
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:09.960
Gotcha, what do you think it would take to start

830
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:14.320
to get at least an outline of what their social

831
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:16.119
structure would be.

832
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:21.360
I mean, we need like a you know, Diane Fossey

833
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:23.719
of the wood apes, I mean, someone who can I

834
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:31.360
I don't know that they would ever allow humans to

835
00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:34.119
observe them the way that we've observed other greade apes.

836
00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:36.719
I just don't know that's every going to happen with

837
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:40.159
wood apes, with the Bigfoot, but I think that's that's

838
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:42.239
what it would take. You know, I was talking a

839
00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:44.519
clip about this, Cliff Berrickman when when I was with

840
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:49.559
them last week, and they have they're they're tracking, literally tracking,

841
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:52.119
they're there. They've they have this area that they're working

842
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:55.599
where they're seeing two sets of tracks again and again

843
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:57.719
and again, and one is larger and one is smaller,

844
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:01.280
and they have sort of perceived that to be, you know,

845
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:05.480
a young one with an older one, maybe a mother

846
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:06.920
and an offspring.

847
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:10.239
Big for society, who will be right back after these messages.

848
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:30.719
So it's not unique to X, but I think that

849
00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:34.559
the you know, using tracks might be one way to

850
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:38.840
try to perceive what's going on there. I honestly, the

851
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:42.039
theories that I've come up with, the sort of suppositions

852
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:47.039
that I've developed, have just been because of all of

853
00:45:47.079 --> 00:45:50.320
the time that I've spent in there, and then hearing

854
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:52.760
all of the accounts of the people I know and

855
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:55.679
trust and have heard their accounts of what they've seen

856
00:45:55.719 --> 00:45:58.320
and experienced in there. So I think that the best

857
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:01.679
way that we're going to sort of crack that nut,

858
00:46:01.719 --> 00:46:04.519
so to speak, is to just invest a lot of

859
00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:06.800
time in them, because I don't think they're gonna let

860
00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:08.280
you watch them there isn't going to be like a

861
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:10.400
troop of gorillas a mountain GIRLA is that I'll let

862
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:12.559
you like sit there and like watch them do their thing,

863
00:46:12.679 --> 00:46:14.840
and you know, to the extent that you can name

864
00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:16.440
them and all that kind of stuff. I don't, I

865
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:17.920
don't think. I don't. I don't. I don't see North

866
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:21.800
American would if ever allowing that. But who knows. I mean,

867
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:27.280
maybe if someone spends literally every day in those forests

868
00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:30.559
and make themselves available, who knows, maybe at some point

869
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:33.320
they would show themselves. You know, there are lots of

870
00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:37.559
witnesses out there who have these sort of quote unquote

871
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:41.880
habituation scenarios, and they say that the apes show themselves

872
00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:44.039
to them, So it could be that that. You know,

873
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:48.239
my thoughts on this are just tainted by what I've experienced,

874
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:51.639
but it seems highly unlikely that we'd be able to

875
00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:54.639
have a scenario where we could actually observe them being

876
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:57.920
sort of a social group together. I don't. I don't

877
00:46:57.960 --> 00:46:59.039
know if that's ever going to happen.

878
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:04.960
Yeah, it sounds like there's no cameras you guys have

879
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:07.719
set up or anything of that nuture.

880
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:11.639
No, I don't. I'm not always see time with cameras again,

881
00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:14.119
and this is just the lesson I learned from the

882
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:18.239
old group. Though, though you know, I speaking to Cliff again,

883
00:47:18.440 --> 00:47:22.000
I have reason to believe that cameras will can collect evidence.

884
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.880
We've never you know, no one's put out as many

885
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:28.239
cameras as any of the ABC has over the years,

886
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:31.119
and as far as I know, I'm not been in

887
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:32.719
the group for four years now, but as far as

888
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:34.480
I know, they've got nothing to show for it. And

889
00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:36.559
all the time. The first time I went in there

890
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:40.960
was that was on a camera maintenance trip, right, And

891
00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:46.000
that was after years of the group trying to get

892
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:48.440
a picture of one and they never got anything even

893
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:50.719
remotely close to a picture of an ape with all

894
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:53.360
of those cameras that they deployed. They deployed many many

895
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:55.760
more cameras after I left the group, and as far

896
00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:59.480
as I know, have never, you know, captured an image

897
00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:04.880
of one the apes. They avoid the cameras. My theory

898
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.960
of the situation is that they can see into the infrared,

899
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:13.519
and what these cameras do is emit very bright infrared flashes.

900
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:16.719
If you've ever had like a night vision device and

901
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:19.880
walk which I have, and up to your eye and

902
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:22.800
walked in front of a game cam, it's blindingly bright.

903
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:25.960
I mean, it's not bright to our to our eyes,

904
00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:27.760
but if you can see into the infrared, it's very

905
00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:30.119
very bright. And what these cameras do is that they

906
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:34.719
occasionally will will sort of focus. They'll do an autofocus

907
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:36.599
thing every once in a while, and they'll flash their

908
00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:39.920
flashers even if there's nothing there to see. So I

909
00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:41.960
think that these animals know that these things are there.

910
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:43.559
And what I don't think. I don't believe for a

911
00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:45.800
second they know what they do. But I think that

912
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:48.519
they are smart enough to want to avoid the bright,

913
00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:52.199
flashy lights that hurt their eyes. And so my personal

914
00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:55.239
theory is that they avoid game cams because of the

915
00:48:55.280 --> 00:49:01.159
infrared lights that they emit. So a really long way

916
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:03.880
to say, I don't waste my time with games hands

917
00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:06.480
because I don't think I don't think they're likely to

918
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:08.159
clutch data.

919
00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:12.559
Yeah, it makes makes total sense. Just as a weird offside.

920
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:15.400
Something I learned the other day is if you have

921
00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:20.199
a newer iPhone with a face I d Yeah, pretty much,

922
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:23.920
it's shooting out. You can see it. Just it you

923
00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:27.239
light up like the fourth of July when the phone

924
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:28.159
covers your face.

925
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.320
Yeah, crazy, it covers. Yeah, it covers your facing a

926
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:33.599
grid because that's literally how it's identifying you as through

927
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:36.719
the three dimensional grid of these little ir pinpoints. Yeah,

928
00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:38.960
it is nuts. If you see that through a night

929
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:42.039
vision device. It is like this like grid of little

930
00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:44.639
tiny pinpoints of lights. So if you think about that,

931
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:46.440
when you're out in the woods and you open up

932
00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:49.719
your iPhone, you can't see it, but theoretically an ache

933
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:51.960
might be able to see that. You just like totally

934
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:55.000
flashed your face with this ir light. But yeah, that's

935
00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:56.159
how that's how face.

936
00:49:55.960 --> 00:50:00.360
ID works, exactly. The question I have this this more

937
00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:03.519
for me just you know, I'll have these conversations with

938
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:06.519
people and we'll talk about bigfoot and these are let's say,

939
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:08.760
these normal people, these is not on the podcast, right,

940
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:12.320
and they'll be like, oh, yeah, bubbles right right, yeah, exactly, Yeah,

941
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:14.920
that's a great way to put it. They'll be like, oh, yeah,

942
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:18.440
you have bigfoot out in California, right, And I'll be like, well, actually,

943
00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:21.800
Southeast Oklahoma is one of the craziest parts for bigfoot,

944
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:24.280
and they'll just look at me like the nuts and

945
00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:29.360
exactly what is the way that you explain why Southeast

946
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:32.719
Oklahoma is such a hot bed for bigfoot down there?

947
00:50:33.760 --> 00:50:36.920
Well, I think I think again, I think there's a

948
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.679
couple of things that are working in at Saber. I

949
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:46.000
do think that these valleys being almost completely untouched from

950
00:50:46.039 --> 00:50:48.559
from a development standpoint, because they are so rugged and

951
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:52.239
difficult to get into and do anything too. I think

952
00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:55.639
that they are really great habitat for these animals to

953
00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:58.760
go into to do things like we produced. I think

954
00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:02.440
that the big difference in Southeast Oklahoma and say almost

955
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:06.719
anywhere in the Pacific Northwest is that the population density,

956
00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:12.079
like humans, is so much lower in Southeast Oklahoma. Outside

957
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:15.800
of like there are some some touristy towns where people go,

958
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:19.920
you know, to do touristy things, but there's not a

959
00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:24.039
lot of people in Southeast Oklahoma. It's it's pretty sparsely populated,

960
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:28.800
so again you're you're not dealing with a huge population

961
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:31.679
of people that might sort of drive the animals away.

962
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:34.079
I also don't know that they have that many places

963
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:38.000
to go to, so I think that there's there's fewer

964
00:51:38.079 --> 00:51:42.119
human beings which might make the apes feel more comfortable there.

965
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:45.480
I think that there is. The habitat is extraordinarily rugged,

966
00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:47.599
which means that they feel like they can go to

967
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:50.519
places and do what they need to do to perpetuate

968
00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:55.280
their species. And there's a lot of rainfall, right, there's

969
00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:57.840
a lot of water. They get a it's basically a

970
00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:00.760
rainforest they get a lot of rain in southeast in

971
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:04.039
the Washingtons, there's just a lot of waterfall. And we

972
00:52:04.119 --> 00:52:06.840
also know, I mean, John Green did this research. I

973
00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:11.280
think first that if you overlay you know, rainfall over

974
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:13.960
a map of where people see apes, there's a pretty

975
00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:16.320
high correlation between how much water is coming out of

976
00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:18.679
the sky over the course of the year and the

977
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:21.440
likely that someone's going to see an ape. So there's

978
00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:24.239
some of my theories. I mean, I think that what

979
00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:25.880
I think a lot of people when I'm talking to

980
00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:28.480
people like you're describing they you know, I literally have

981
00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:32.280
had the conversation they really have had this conversation where

982
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:34.280
someone has said, like, well, how can everyone be seeing

983
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:36.840
that same ape? Like well of that same big flip Like, well,

984
00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:41.360
it's not just one, come on, it's a population, right.

985
00:52:41.800 --> 00:52:45.639
But you know, northern Minnesota has a great number of sightings,

986
00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:48.800
that Ohio has a great number of sightings. You know,

987
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:53.639
there's there they wherever there's forest, wherever there's habitat and

988
00:52:53.800 --> 00:52:58.559
food and rain, people see them. And so I think

989
00:52:58.599 --> 00:53:01.599
that even though they are sort of in the popular culture,

990
00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:06.079
really closely related with the Pacific Northwest. If you're in

991
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:12.519
southeastern Oklahoma, They are totally in the culture down there too.

992
00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:15.880
You will see them in every store. You will see

993
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:20.519
you know, the hoe, nubby, bigfoot. Whatever it is that

994
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:22.960
they do down there, their conference, of their festival or

995
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:25.519
whatever they call it, is right smack dab in the

996
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:28.119
middle of the whole thing down there. Those people know

997
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:31.119
about apes. They're in the culture down there just as

998
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:33.400
much as they are in the Pacific Northwest. The only

999
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:35.760
problem is there aren't as many people that live in

1000
00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:39.800
southeastern Oklahoma, so regular people outside of that area don't

1001
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:41.719
know about it. There are people in Oklahoma they don't

1002
00:53:41.719 --> 00:53:43.519
even know there are mountains in Oklahoma. I have a

1003
00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:45.880
really good friend who lives in Tulsa, Tulsa, which is

1004
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:48.400
like just north of the Washatas. She didn't even I

1005
00:53:48.400 --> 00:53:50.039
told her I was going down to camp in the

1006
00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:52.760
mountains in Oklahoma. She had no idea the mountains were there.

1007
00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:56.719
I mean, they're just it's this weird little pocket where

1008
00:53:57.119 --> 00:53:59.239
like there just isn't a lot of attention being paid

1009
00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:01.119
to it outside of a few people that live there.

1010
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:04.599
Has there been an experience where if you tell I'm

1011
00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:07.320
just gonna say, if you tell, muggles, they'll look at

1012
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:10.000
you like you're straight up crazy, because I already have

1013
00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:12.920
those myself, and I'm just curious if you have one

1014
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:15.320
where it's like, if I tell this person this one thing,

1015
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:17.960
it's going to blow their mind and then I won't

1016
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:19.840
be able to talk to them ever again.

1017
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.760
Yeah, for sure. The first thing that comes into mind.

1018
00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:28.360
There was a time that my friend Rich and Darryl Collier,

1019
00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:32.559
who was in the INC. We were all in a

1020
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:34.960
w C at the time. Rich and Darryl and I

1021
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:40.400
were sitting around camp and it was sort of typical,

1022
00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:43.320
you know, standard operating procedure in the group to be

1023
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.199
in a dark camp. So we didn't have a campfire going,

1024
00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:47.960
and we didn't have lights going. We just learned to

1025
00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:49.679
sit in the dark because we feel that the apes

1026
00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:51.840
feel more comfortable getting close to us when it's dark.

1027
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:55.719
So we had this experience where Rich, with his like

1028
00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:58.880
naked vision because he has these incredible eyes you can

1029
00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:02.400
see in the dark almost he saw eye shine of

1030
00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:06.679
an animal that was up in a tree. It would

1031
00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:10.639
like climbed up a tree, the trunk of the tree

1032
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:13.280
and was like peering down at us, and he could

1033
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:15.480
see the animal's eye shine. I could not see it.

1034
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:17.519
I don't think Daryl or I, either of us could

1035
00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:19.079
see it with my naked eye. But when I got

1036
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:20.920
my night vision out, I could see the night I

1037
00:55:20.920 --> 00:55:22.400
could see through the night ers. I could see these

1038
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:25.159
two little pinpoints of light that were the eye shine

1039
00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:29.079
of this animal. And then we got the thermal out

1040
00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:31.079
and it was like boom, there's an animal. There's the

1041
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:32.719
side of its head. It's little round head. It was

1042
00:55:32.760 --> 00:55:34.719
like looking at from the tree, and it was it

1043
00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:37.679
was holding under the tree. I could see on the

1044
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:40.480
from where I was standing, its head was coming out

1045
00:55:40.519 --> 00:55:42.480
of the left side of the tree, and then on

1046
00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:45.239
the right side of the tree. I'm sorry, its head

1047
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:46.599
was coming out of the right side of the tree.

1048
00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:48.480
From my perspective, and on the left side of the tree,

1049
00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:50.880
I can actually see its fingers gripping the side of

1050
00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:53.119
the tree, and I could see them moving as it

1051
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:55.840
was art of repositioning itself or holding under the tree.

1052
00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:58.800
Like I had that. It was that much detail. And

1053
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:01.559
I came back and so this is crazy. We had

1054
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:04.360
this like all three of us saw this animal through

1055
00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:08.559
naked eyes, through night vision, and through thermal. This this

1056
00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:11.400
encounter went on for like a oh man, it was

1057
00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:13.039
I mean, it was a good ten minutes. That thing

1058
00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:14.440
was sitting there looking at us, and we were trying

1059
00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:16.719
to play cool, you know, we wanted this to continue

1060
00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:19.000
as long as possible. I came back and told that

1061
00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:21.679
story to somebody exactly as I just told it to you, Like,

1062
00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:23.960
you know, this thing was that, you know, the eyes

1063
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:27.280
had eye shine, I could see its fingers, I could

1064
00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:29.880
see its a little round head poking around. And I

1065
00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:31.679
was telling this person I work with, and she's like,

1066
00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:34.719
couldn't have been a bear? Like, no, it couldn't have

1067
00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:37.920
been a bear? What about what did I just describe

1068
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:40.039
to you? What if that sounds like a bear? So yeah,

1069
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:42.800
pretty much everything that happens to me down in the valley,

1070
00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:46.800
And it isn't necessarily the individual stories, but it's like

1071
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:51.840
the weird sheer volume of stories. After a while, people

1072
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:55.519
just sort of like they either get really excited, you know,

1073
00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:57.639
and they want to hear more, or they just sort

1074
00:56:57.639 --> 00:57:01.719
of like back away slowly experience. And I would say

1075
00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:05.119
more people back away slowly than get excited about it.

1076
00:57:05.159 --> 00:57:07.800
Almost every encounter I've had in there, you know, except

1077
00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:10.639
for the really quick visuals. You know, that first week

1078
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:12.400
I was talking about when I went in there and

1079
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:14.800
had all that crazy stuff happen like that was just

1080
00:57:14.920 --> 00:57:20.199
day after day after day of really intense ape interaction.

1081
00:57:20.559 --> 00:57:23.119
And you can't tell someone that story. They just they

1082
00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:25.800
think you're crazy. They just think you're nuts because they,

1083
00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:30.840
you know, a regular person's, regular person's life. They have

1084
00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:36.760
no room for bigfoot, They have no room for wit apes.

1085
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:40.199
They have no place, they have no no, no frame

1086
00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:44.719
of reference to understand how vast the forests in North

1087
00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:47.960
America are. They have no frame of reference for these

1088
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:50.039
animals and how they could exist. They don't know anybody

1089
00:57:50.079 --> 00:57:51.800
who's ever seen one. So when you come out and

1090
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:54.119
you say, like, I've seen them, you know, eleven times,

1091
00:57:55.039 --> 00:57:58.480
there's just like there's no that just doesn't compute. So

1092
00:57:58.960 --> 00:58:01.119
they're either going to be the kind of person who

1093
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:03.800
is curious and wants to know more. They not not

1094
00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:06.920
necessarily believe you, but they they're curious and they want

1095
00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:08.679
to know more, or more likely they're just going to

1096
00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:10.440
shut you down. They're just going to put you in

1097
00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:12.280
a little box in their mind of like a crazy

1098
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:13.960
person and leave either.

1099
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:19.840
I think that's a very very good way to put that.

1100
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:24.519
I found that a lot of the reports that come

1101
00:58:24.559 --> 00:58:29.519
from that area of Oklahoma are aggressive reports. Do you

1102
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:31.880
think there's a reason why that tends to be for

1103
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:34.440
that area or do you think maybe they're just hyped

1104
00:58:34.519 --> 00:58:35.159
up or.

1105
00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:41.199
I think, yeah, I've heard that before that you know,

1106
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:44.920
sort of the rep that apes have in the southeastern

1107
00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:46.840
part the United States is that they're more aggressive. I

1108
00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:48.519
think part of that is that the people might be

1109
00:58:48.519 --> 00:58:52.719
more aggressive. You know, it's far more likely that someone

1110
00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:57.199
in the woods in Oklahoma or Texas or Louisiana or

1111
00:58:57.280 --> 00:58:59.639
something like that, it's way more likely that that person

1112
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:03.119
is going to be armed and have the ability to

1113
00:59:03.159 --> 00:59:06.920
be aggressive if they feel threatened then it is for

1114
00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:10.719
someone in northern California or Oregon or Washington. There's just

1115
00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:14.000
like the culture is very different. Having spent time in

1116
00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:16.800
both of these areas, the people are very different. The

1117
00:59:16.880 --> 00:59:19.559
people in the southeastern part of the country are just

1118
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:23.679
I think more likely to be aggressive themselves. And there

1119
00:59:23.719 --> 00:59:27.199
have been instances even you know, inside these groups that

1120
00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:31.760
I've been part of, where a person being aggressive towards

1121
00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:33.920
an ape has led the ape to be aggressive back

1122
00:59:33.920 --> 00:59:37.639
to them. And so I don't necessarily buy that the

1123
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:41.239
apes are more aggressive, but I do think that their

1124
00:59:41.239 --> 00:59:45.519
interactions with humans might be a little more amped up

1125
00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:50.280
just because the people are I think, more inclined to

1126
00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:54.119
feel like they can be aggressive back. I don't know

1127
00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:56.519
if that makes sense. I'm not trying to like stereotype anyone,

1128
00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:00.800
but I mean, I just knowing people from both parts

1129
01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:03.159
of the country, it seems way more likely to me

1130
01:00:04.199 --> 01:00:08.320
that someone in Oklahoma or Texas or Louisiana or one

1131
01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:14.480
of those states is going to be more in the

1132
01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:19.320
face of the ape than someone who lives in northern California.

1133
01:00:19.480 --> 01:00:21.800
And so I think some of it is just a response.

1134
01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:25.760
And again, the few times when I was in the

1135
01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:29.880
India Sea where I feel like the apes were potentially

1136
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:36.719
very dangerous and demonstrating some real aggression, the human being

1137
01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:42.679
involved was also demonstrating some aggression. So I think that

1138
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:44.920
it's just more likely the case that the people down

1139
01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:48.079
there are willing to push a little harder. That's just

1140
01:00:48.159 --> 01:00:52.719
a theory, But in my experience, I don't feel that

1141
01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:58.679
the apes down there are aggressive or particularly dangerous. I mean,

1142
01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:01.679
all wild animals are dangerus, right, I mean, any any

1143
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:04.800
wild animal above the size of a rabbit could be dangerous,

1144
01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:07.880
But I don't think that they're necessarily aggressive. If anything,

1145
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:11.280
they're pretty standoffish. I don't think they really want to

1146
01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:14.079
engage human beings that way, but I think they will,

1147
01:01:14.199 --> 01:01:16.159
and that this is another part of another part of

1148
01:01:16.159 --> 01:01:18.360
the question that I have about their social structure, because

1149
01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:23.079
I think some animals will engage and show sort of

1150
01:01:23.079 --> 01:01:28.880
a threat display or or be aggressive in protection or

1151
01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:31.719
trying to draw attention away from other animals in their

1152
01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:34.360
troop or in their social structure. So I think that's

1153
01:01:34.360 --> 01:01:36.840
also something that that happens. I can think of a

1154
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:39.400
couple of instances where that may have been the case

1155
01:01:39.519 --> 01:01:42.440
over the years in both of the groups. So I

1156
01:01:42.440 --> 01:01:45.039
don't know. I've heard that lots of times. I think

1157
01:01:45.079 --> 01:01:47.400
I went in. I went down there assuming that those

1158
01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:49.400
animals were more AGGRESSI because I think that's the rep

1159
01:01:49.400 --> 01:01:52.360
that they have. But after having spent all the time

1160
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:54.360
that I have spent down there, I don't think they are.

1161
01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:56.480
I don't think they're any more aggressive than they are

1162
01:01:56.480 --> 01:01:57.519
anywhere else in the country.

1163
01:01:57.639 --> 01:02:00.480
I think that's well said, because I think everyone has

1164
01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:03.159
heard siege at Honabi and goes.

1165
01:02:04.360 --> 01:02:07.880
This is where went right right, and the siegeon ho

1166
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:10.400
Nabi is exactly what I'm talking about. Like those guys

1167
01:02:10.519 --> 01:02:13.199
were not putting up with those apes, right, and so

1168
01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:16.519
those apes, I think were responding. And and you know,

1169
01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:18.199
I can think of a couple of instances in the

1170
01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:21.280
old group where something happened, not nearly to the extent

1171
01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:23.719
of what the Cagion Henb was, but but the same

1172
01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:27.400
kind of thing where we perceived the threat from the apes.

1173
01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:31.960
So we got big and blustery and the ape did too, right.

1174
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:35.679
And so I think in the cases that I think of,

1175
01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:38.920
and again I I just don't subscribe to the notion

1176
01:02:39.079 --> 01:02:42.280
that these are fundamentally dangerous animals. I don't subscribe to

1177
01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:45.280
the notion that they are that they are that they

1178
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:48.239
had in their minds, or they're trying to be a

1179
01:02:48.280 --> 01:02:51.360
threat to human beings. I don't think that's true. But

1180
01:02:51.519 --> 01:02:54.840
in the cases where has happened, like the Sigon Honabi,

1181
01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:58.639
clearly the humans were part of why that went where

1182
01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:00.719
it did, right, There was a lot of aggression on

1183
01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:01.280
both sides.

1184
01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:06.519
That makes sense. Brian, It's been an absolute pleasure talking

1185
01:03:06.559 --> 01:03:10.079
to you tonight. Thank you for spending some of your time.

1186
01:03:10.360 --> 01:03:13.559
Is there a way that people can reach out to you?

1187
01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:17.079
And I asked this just because I've gotten to the

1188
01:03:17.079 --> 01:03:19.280
point where tons of people will ask me and I

1189
01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:21.960
kind of try to cut myself out as the middleman.

1190
01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:25.320
You know. I'm on Instagram. That's probably the best way

1191
01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:28.039
to do I'm also on Threads nine. The number nine,

1192
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:30.079
the word six and the number seven is my handle

1193
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.119
on Instagram and threads. That's probably the best way to

1194
01:03:33.559 --> 01:03:35.119
get a hold of me. We don't really have a

1195
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:39.400
website for our group, that's how sort of casual it is.

1196
01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:42.119
But yeah, so that's probably the best way to do it.

1197
01:03:42.159 --> 01:03:43.960
I'm not on Twitter anymore, and I'm not on Facebook.

1198
01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:45.719
I mean I am on Facebook, but I never go there,

1199
01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:47.840
so I have a page there, but I never ever

1200
01:03:48.079 --> 01:03:50.960
use it. So Facebook Messenger works. I actually have people

1201
01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:53.119
reaching out to me via Facebook Messenger, so you can

1202
01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:55.920
find me Brian Brown on Facebook. So that's another way

1203
01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:56.840
that they could reach out to me.

1204
01:03:57.519 --> 01:04:00.360
Fantastic. I'll definitely be watching over the next few years

1205
01:04:00.400 --> 01:04:04.679
to see where the research of yourself and war goes.

1206
01:04:04.800 --> 01:04:07.079
And thank you again for coming on the show.

1207
01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:10.119
Oh this is my pleasure. This is a lot of fun.

1208
01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:12.239
I love talking about this stuff and so I was

1209
01:04:12.519 --> 01:04:13.239
happy to do it.

1210
01:04:14.199 --> 01:04:16.960
Please take a minute to help out the show by

1211
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:20.599
subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so

1212
01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:24.159
you don't miss any notifications, and share the episode on

1213
01:04:24.199 --> 01:04:27.199
YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us

1214
01:04:27.239 --> 01:04:30.440
on a podcast, thank you so much, make sure that

1215
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:34.719
you're subscribed, share the show with a friend. Really, it's

1216
01:04:34.719 --> 01:04:37.920
all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've

1217
01:04:37.960 --> 01:04:40.800
had a Bigfoot encounter related to the following, or know

1218
01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:45.079
someone who has, please reach out to me at Bigfoot

1219
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:48.559
Society at gmail dot com or pass on my email.

1220
01:04:49.360 --> 01:04:52.239
Here's the list. If you've had any encounters in Oregon,

1221
01:04:52.480 --> 01:04:54.840
which I'm sure there's probably a few of you out there,

1222
01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:57.880
please feel free to reach out immediately. You can use

1223
01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:01.840
email Bigfoot Society at gmail dot A special thank you

1224
01:05:01.880 --> 01:05:05.960
to all the big Foot Society, Patreon and YouTube channel members.

1225
01:05:06.039 --> 01:05:08.840
It's your support that helps keep the show going and

1226
01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:12.400
I extremely appreciate it. If you want to join in

1227
01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:15.639
the fun, you can join over at patreon dot com

1228
01:05:15.639 --> 01:05:18.800
forward slash the big Foot Society. I'll see you there,

1229
01:05:20.039 --> 01:05:21.679
and again, thanks for listening.

1230
01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:10.559
Her and I can get on here. We can tell

1231
01:06:10.559 --> 01:06:11.159
our stories.

1232
01:06:11.559 --> 01:06:14.079
Maybe there's somebody else out there listening that's.

1233
01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:16.840
Too afraid to tell their story. Maybe this will.

1234
01:06:16.639 --> 01:06:19.280
Give them the courage to come out. And now it

1235
01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:22.519
feels so bad about it. Who cares what anybody's thinks.

1236
01:06:22.599 --> 01:06:24.920
I know what I saw, I know what's out there.

1237
01:06:25.800 --> 01:06:26.719
That's all I care about.

1238
01:06:42.679 --> 01:06:46.719
Please let people know, Please let them know. If you

1239
01:06:46.880 --> 01:06:48.760
ever see one of these things.

1240
01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:52.199
You need to tell because if you don't, you're shame

1241
01:06:52.280 --> 01:06:52.920
on you.

1242
01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:54.519
You know, shame on you.