Wildlife Conservationist from India shares his Bigfoot Encounter

0:00 Hey, this is Bryce Johnson from Travel Channels Expedition Bigfoot. You're listening to the Bigfoot Society podcast. Welcome to Big for Society. If you have Bigfoot activity to report from the same areas discussed in this episode, please reach out to me directly after this episode. And if you'd like to be on the podcast to discuss a personal Bigfoot encounter, please reach out to me directly at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. Do you wish there was more big for Society to listen to you every week? Well there is now. If you become a supporting member over at Patreon, you get a special members only episode every single week on Wednesdays, and sometimes even more episodes. Head on over to patreon dot com. Forward slash the Bigfoot Society and now let's get on with the show. The following interview takes place between myself in Iowa and Nav, a wildlife conservationist from India. That being said, there will be multiple audio quality issues, but please enjoy the actual content of this interview and thank you for listening.

1:04 All right, big Because Society, You've got the privilege of talking to Nav today. Nov is a wildlife conservationist from India. It's a pleasure talking to you today. Nov. You reached out to me through email. I think you even sent me some voicemails as well. Yeah, thank you, Jeremiah, absolutely, yes, thank you so much. I am really excited to talk to you tonight. It's been a while getting this to work. It's eight thirty in Iowa and it's seven seven thirty or seven eight in India. So all right, you and Iowa lovely. I've never been there, so another place I have to visit in the future. Absolutely, So Nov, let's get right into it. I'd like to welcome you to share what you've experienced over the years as a wildcare conservationist.

1:48 Yeah, I mean it's a long story. I've always had a passion for our life. From the late teens, I was involved in working for various wildlife organizations, some very high profile like Environmental Investigation Agency which investigates the illegal trade in sities and dangered species. So Debbie Banks, who was one of the head campaigns there I know very very well. Worked for Fauna Florida International, which is London Zoological Society, so I knew very well the CEO John Burton, David Attenberg. You might know from BBC TV series So Rang International Ngatwan Foundation Ashley Lehman, so a lot of the top most high profile conservationists working on dangered species protection and preservation all over the world. As I was. Also, I'm also a lawyer, so while I'm retired now, but I was a lawyer. So I used that to some extent to feel that sort of passion and help with those sort of whatever sort of campaigns I was doing.

2:49 So I've traveled all over the world. I've been to Indonesia, Southeast Asia, Malaysia, South America, India, oversty where I'm staying living now. I'm of Indian origin Africa. So in my pursuit of this passion of mine, yeah, for over the well, so you could say for thirty years. Over thirty years, that's absolutely fascinating. It just. The information that you have is probably more than I could ever even imagine of just being able to go to the different countries of the world. It's so fascinating. But it sounds like in your travels you've had some sightings of some really interesting things that are not normal.

3:33 Yeah. Absolutely, And that's what I couldn't come to terms with because I was always brought up believing in Darwin sort of the evolution natural selection. You know that everything was backed up by paleontology and archaeology and anthropology and certain species, mostally amazing Jeremiah. I had this sort of I knew a couple of people when I was working, and one of them was I forget her name. She worked for fauner Flora International. I can't remember her name. My apologies. This is many years ago, and she had a very strange experience and she related it to me and I said, well, what was the experience that you had, and she said, well, when I was in Indonesia, I actually saw a creature that was not a human. It was not an ape ol monkey, it was something in between, but it was definitely something that would be an unidentified, unknown species. So I never thought about it. But bizarrely, going to that same place myself in this called Karin, she said, Lad, by the way, it's a national park in Sumatra, one of the largest, and it's supposed to be the place where this creature called orang pendick occurs.

4:51 So when you talk when I went there and talking of this must have been almost thirty years ago, just under thirty years ago. Sorry, I stayed in the park. I went trekking, not for looking for these creatures, by the way, I was looking for simang, which is a gibbon species, just to see how the park was. There were a lot of issues at that time about you know, poaching, deforestation, and I wanted to see this for myself. So with a guy called mister Solok, who was a guide, we were trekking through some forest, dense forest, but there was an open patch of grassland in front of both of us. Something ran very fast and two legs two feet. So he looked to me and I looked at him and I said, well, do you know what could run that fast and two feet? It can't be in a It can't be a bear. I mean, some bear is an animal that occurs, a small bear species, but it can't run for that distance. And we saw it. We didn't see it clearly, but we saw like a head and something disappeared very very fast. So I just brushed it off.

5:50 To tell you the truth, I know this lady had spoken to it, seen it, but yeah, I mean there's a lot of evidence of this orange pandalic. The locals know that, the villagers know it, and they definitely say it's not an orangutwent, it's not a gibbon. It's something like it's like humanoid features, but it's something in between. So why I'm saying this, Jeremi, It's like, because I've been to so many places. How is it that in so many of the places of the world that I've been, people who are well informed, people who are not, who are credible, who have actually said, no, there is something here. And you know, I've had so many other experiences, not like the one I had in Karanascus, by the way, that is undoubtedly the most bizarre, but I'll come to that later. We will come to that. The other one was in India, and everyone knows about the Yetti And there's one place in northeast India. It's a state actually, it's a state called Megalia. It's a small state. Most of it's forested, most of it's very inaccessible, and it has a very very small population. And there's a place called no Crek National Park. It's like a park, it's protected bro I had gone there with a guy called Philip Parry and who was the tourism one of a tourism officers. Actually, I've actually been given his details by another charity that I that I used to work alongside with, which was Wildlife Trust of India, which by the way, is supported you might know of it by International Fund

7:24 Funermal Welfare. And the reason why he visited this place is because again it was very rich and biodiversity. It was very important, very crucial for protecting. So when we were there for about a day, we went to one part of the forest. We were going to go trekking, but one of the forest officers said, I'm sorry, it's closed. So Philip and I scholl, why has it closed? What's happened? And why are the villages being relocated? There were some villages that were situated inside that particular part of the park, but they were relocated out and you could see the people outside and they were sort of like theirs or not belongings, but in like you know, little groups, and they look quite sort of disoriented. So I asked Philip, I said, well, you know what's happened? And so he spoke in their language. These were garrowed people, like tribal people.

8:12 So they said they saw an animal and that was not a bear. So again in this area you get maybe Himalian black bears and bears. They said it was much taller. They said it looked identical to a human almost almost, but was covered in hair. So what could it possibly be? I mean, I thought, are these people exaggerating? Are they are they sort of like believing in some mythical creature? You know, because you know, when you believe in something that is mythical, sometimes it almost it almost becomes graphically, it becomes so inconstant and subconsciously you begin to see something which you believe although it doesn't actually exist. And I discussed this with Philip, I discussed with others.

8:54 So interestingly, here they call it manday Burham. So they had names for these creatures, and their names are different from what they have for bears or any other animals. And they say, no, it exists, and that's why. But it's rare. But when we see it, yes, we get frightened because we don't know about how will it interact with us. So that's just to give you sort of a background of you know, those experiences and other people. I've come across many instances by the way of not if I'm myself personally seeing things or speaking to people who said Oh no, no, this this definitely exists. It's not a question of even if it does exist, But we don't have the resources. We don't have the team work or the staff to go out into these very deep, inaccessible forested areas to be able to locate these creatures.

9:48 So that's just the kind of background you know, in the past of my sort of experiences of these type of entities or whatever creatures. That's I mean, that is fascinating. Has there been expeditions to try to look further into that creature? Is it really that remote where it hasn't really been looked into before? Yeah, I mean basically northeast India, the extreme northeast. It's a very very densely forested area. It's intractable, it's inaccessible, massively deep, gorgeous. Just to give you some idea, if you try to walk into that forest, sometimes you can't see beyond one foot it's that dense. So you know, you need people with proper equipment to be able to go there, proper supplies and see in India, we don't have those resources. We don't have well to be once to you nowhere in the world, right, I mean, you can't take any mechanized vehicles there. You can't take horses or ponies because you know that the kind of topography is such that you're walking in very rugged terrain. And myself being a trekker and I've done it trekking for a long time, I know these how difficult can be to even walk one or two kilometers right because of the type of terrain. So yeah, it's they don't have the backing, they don't have the because you know, India has so many other problems. We have so many issues dealing with environment, with population, with whatever we do have that we're protecting by wildlife, so it's difficult to give

11:19 attention to this. But if you look at the kind of topography, you can see that it's the kind of thing that would support and could support these animals because there's a lot of vegetation, there's a lot of food sources, a lot of shade, a lot of water. And you know, people will turn around and say, over, hang on, wait a minute, how can this support an animal that's so tall? And you know, and I said, well, I've been to jungles in India that are only maybe fifty to one hundred square kilometers, but on which you get elephant herds, and I've never seen the elephants because the jungle is so dense that you know, and the elephants don't come they don't need to come out. They've got enough food, so that you know. The assumption that, oh, because animals of particular size, you should see it easily is absolute nonsense.

12:10 And that's one thing I want to dismiss because I hear all the time, Oh, but you know if this animal is so huge eight feet nine feet, then you'd see it. Well, I said, well, look, I've been through jungles in the world. I've been in jungles where their elephants they're banting their gold. They're tigers. You don't see them, you don't even hear them, and they're there, and these are small jungles. So on that basis, this is entirely viable. So yeah, a lot more work needs to be done, Jeremy, A lot more work needs to be done to increase increase awareness of this creature. And can I just say one thing. People forget that there's a lot of fossil evidence of these creatures in India because in the Shevalics, so basically, when the Himalias were formed when that's part of India that the strangle is shape, if you like, of the Indian India broke off from Africa on Dana land and it smashed into the Asian It formed the Himalias sixty million years ago, and from that point onwards you had a lot of evolution of species and things.

13:11 And in the Himalias there are foothills called the shiv Arlics. In the Schevarlis they found fossils of the very first ape men or if you like, apes called ramapithecenes. And how interesting from that we get gigant Epithecus, the fossils or which were found in northeast India and China. So why is it not feasible that there should be some line that survived and which is manifested by these species today if just within the yeti and a lot of people say, oh, the yeti is just a Tibetan blue bears and unidentified because they found a scalp in some Tibetan monastery in Nepal which was instantly that was of a bear. They believed it was a yeti, so they dismissed it. But it's absolute garbage because Indian troops, Indian soldiers, Indian officers who've been in amalias at twenty thousand feet because you know they're patrolling that area against invasion. They've seen this animal. They've seen an animal that's not a bear.

14:12 They said, no, it's not a bear. And which bear can walk erect for a period for a distance of sorry, a distance of one or two kilometers. No bear can do that. The bear might get up on its hind legs and so on, but how can they walk for one, two, three, four kilometers? But these tracks have been seen in the amlias and the stride between the tracks and there's nothing around it. So it's not like someone has gone around and faked it, because if they did, you see the signs of their footsteps or things around those tracks, and there's nothing of the kind. And then the pressure on the ice. When they've looked at the pressure on the ice, it has to be around five hundred to eight hundred pounds because the rice is so compact and strong, you need to have so much body weight to press to leave that type of an imprint. So that's really the issue.

14:58 It just isn't the resources. I think there isn't really the interest because there's so many other issues, and that's why I think. It's absolutely fascinating. You are a wildlife concernationist. Is part of what you're trying to do prove these humanoid ape type creatures that haven't been discovered yet or what is your relation to that? Yeah, good point, Jerema. The fact is I have an open mind for everything. I do believe they exist, and that's part of the reason why I really want to go and try to find out more evidences information. I know a guy very well. He's a very close friend of mine, Dr David Shivers. He's a retired professor of veterinary anatomy from Cambridge University. He's been on the TV, he's been on radio. He's very very well known in the circles. He's one of the top primatologists in the world.

15:58 He believes fervently in the existence of this creature. Why would he compromise his reputation although I know he's retired, but even when he was not retired, he would do nothing to compromise his academic reputation, his credentials by believing in something if it were bogus. And when I've spoken to him at length and I've learn him for almost thirty years, doctor David Jive, I still keep up with him. And he said no, He said, there is a lot of fake stuff out there, like the videos, but there's a lot that is very convincing. And I said, I agree with you. And I talked to him about a guy you might know, Jeremiah think Ka Tunka, who does a wonderful YouTube channel. Of course big for a society, who will be right back after these messages.

16:57 I think Katunka if you look at his Analo says, being in special effects, being in it and knowing you know when something has been photoshopped or when something has been adulterated. But what I loved about thinka Tunkey. There were a couple of videos and one of them was the stone Thrower. I can't remember where it was that was it, Ohio you time? Sorry, but they showed a creature and when thinka Tunka does analysis, I e. He looks at the length of the arm of the creature. He says, Okay, even if it's a man in a fake suit, he'd have to have an arm length that equates to that of an ape. And because apes have longer arms, right, they have shorter torsos than we do, but sorry, they have short, longer torsos, but shorter legs and longer arms, and it fit all the dimensions. But what really got me was when he showed this creature sitting down the meta tarsal bone and the foot. So we know, basically we can't bend the arch of our foot sole of our foot in half, sorry if that makes sense. So the only the ape an ape when it can do that, it can bend its foot downwards, so it's like in half, so bend allmits its soul or it's arch in half. And when I saw that actually on the video and he's zooming in, I thought that is just bizarre because no human being, monkey suit, no monkey suit could do that, let alone have those dimensions as physical proportions that I described earlier. And then that was one video. The other one was and this is what got me interested. That's why I contacted you, because I had dismissed what I had seen, as I

18:28 described in my first contact with you. But when I saw that video of the contractors in Kananaskis a couple of years ago, that I saw this huge creature chuck her twenty foot tree some forty to fifty feet distance, and you could see the bowl of the little earth at the end where the roots were, and you could see it was a tree. That convinced me because the analysis that thinka Tunka did was just First you can see the shadow of this creature, which is at least eight to nine feet, and the way it picks this thing up and throws it, the way he does the analysis, and he gives the weight of the tree, he gives the height of the tree. He says, it doesn't matter. Even if you are the strongest pole vaulter in the world, you wouldn't be able to throw that object even a few feet, let alone pick it up and throw it in the air. So when I take all this evidence, and there's much more, by the way, I'm sorry, I'm just giving you ones that come immediately to my mind, then I think, yes, of course this creature exists, and we're not talking about it because there are a number of reasons, and the reasons I believe jeremah it challenges traditional evolutionary theory because we're taught to believe that I don't know what you think, but we're taught to believe that humans, we evolved and all our other competitors died out, and there's just the apes and the humans. And it suits these Orthodox people who believe in that. Right. Secondly, it challenges all mainstream religions because even if you look at a lot of Orthodox religions, they don't want to believe. See, we believe in Adam and Eve, the Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity, Islam,

20:00 they believe in Thatam believe that man was formed in God's form. So when we start talking about these ape like creatures to some extent, it challenges a lot of the religious ideology in amongst circles. Right. Thirdly, these creatures occupy vast ways. For I mean, if you take of Russia, the Siberianietti, and you might have seen the one on YouTube. This family are in the woods and they see this huge creature swinging through the trees and it's amazing. It's another amazing video. There's no, it's not a hoax. People have looked at it. It's not a chimpanzee. It's three two three times the size of a chimpanzee. But when you look at the Siberia, Siberia is thirteen one to three million square kilometers in size. Can you imagine that?

20:46 So in other words, Siberia if you take the USA's nine million square kilometers or Canada Stimili, so it's about what one and a half times the size of USA or Canada just Siberia within Russia, most of which is forested, millions are square kilometers. Of that at least several million is forested. So will you take all these forested areas similarly the United States? Like I was just looking the other day, I just come back from Yellowstone actually a month ago. I was in Yellowstone National Park and the Tetons and all that. So I passed through that area coming from the Waterton side of Canada, Glacier side, and I just passed through a fragment of what is supposed to be an area that covers eighteen nine thousand square kilometers.

21:37 So that's not just the greater Yellowstone ecosystem, which is thirty nine thousand, it's all the other forests like Custer, Gallatin, Lewis, Clark, Shoshone. All these together come to eighty nine. So you know, Jeremiah, we're talking of a vast area, right, I mean, the UK is only two hundred and twenty thousand square kilometers. This is eighty nine thousand. So you're telling me, in that vast area, huge area, you can't have these animals roaming around. What nonsense. Of course you can, and especially my experience of being all over the world and looking chasing huge animals which have been hidden in smaller fragments. But I think the other reason is that these a lot of these areas are very rich. They're rich in minerals, they're rich in timber. A lot of the commercial interests know that in this creature exists, these areas could be declared as national parks or protected areas, so it means there are off limits to commercial ventures. So it suits a lot of the big corporates not to have this species verified as existing, because what it does, It then means that well, these areas that were right for exploitation commercially industrially for mineral resources now becomes more difficult. The other reason I believe that I'm saying this because I think people inside the government do not exists. But these are reasons possibly why it's not being disclosed. The other reason is I think that if this creature was verified by means that it can be verified by it would probably lead to trophy hunters, hunting, poaching, because you can

23:09 imagine why there's a new animal in existence, we know it's been identified, Oh wow, why don't we kill one, catch one? Why don't we try to find where it is a lot of people going into this forested areas uncontrolled. So I think there's a lot of and yes, it could be that, you know, there are other reasons too, but I think there are a lot of factors why why institutions, establishments don't want us don't want us to know that this exists. I'm not a conspiracy theory believer, but I feel that there's a lot of reasons why it shouldn't be known to exist. Absolutely, while we're around this topic, yeah, you know how, I'm sure you keep to date with the news that maybe in the US, but over the last few years there's been a well really a disclosure of the UFO or UA a phenomenon.

24:01 Yes, yes, working absolutely. Towards that on the big Foot side of things. Very good point, Jeremiah. I don't really know because the UFO doesn't impact us on a day to day basis. Why I think the information on the truth of the Bigfoot is a little bit more compromised. Is because I think, as I said before, it occupies the land that we share, we human share with the environment, very rich lands. And there are two reasons. If it gets protected, it means it's a no go area for the big corporates, commercial companies, mining companies. It challenges a lot of whatsort as UFO about orthodoxy, about religion and everything, because that also does I agree with you, So I think that with the Bigfoot, it's probably And the other thing is that you see UFOs.

24:51 We can see them in the sky, right, anyone. You know they're in the sky, they're more visible. It's in the open. But something that's deep in the forests of the earth and the bowels of the earth, it's more difficult to to be able to say, well, here we go, here's the evidence. And you know, the other thing people have said is, oh, but there's no body, there's no corpse. There's there's there's no Uh what's what about aliens? Have they produced an alien corpse? I mean, I know they've got these little mummies from from from Peru, right that's come in the news, and they said, oh, we believe that this is definitely because it's not human DNA. But look at this, I mean, doesn't mean because you don't have a physical body until he as a lawyer as myself, that the evidence does exist. No nonsense. I give you a perfect scenario. What about murder cases where people have been murdered, they haven't found the body, but the person who's accused of murder room is still being convicted on the other evidence. So you've got to look at all the other evidence. You've got to look at all other evidence.

25:47 Is it still provable beyond a reasonable doubt that Bigfoot exists? Or is it just circumstantial? Like I said, No, it's not circumstantial. The other evidence does show it exists. And when DNA has been taken by way of fur samples and they've been submitted to laboratories, what really annoys me is the laboratories come back and say, oh, it's it's we can't it's it's contaminated. I mean, what garbage? What absolute garbage. I mean, either you know that it is a bear or something else or not. I mean, if it's contaminated, and so many samples have been given, but why is it laboratories? Most of them are coming back and saying, well, we can't really determine what this is, but you can determine other fur samples. If I bring cat samples in or tiger samples or bears. How many times have they said, oh, this is contaminated, and or when you and I give our DNA do they say, oh, it's contaminated or this or that. So I think that there is a cover up. I don't know really why there's a cover up, because I think that there are means of getting around this. Whether they feel this animal may be very in a very delicate situation by way of numbers, that if we give too much information out, we're concerned that it'll lead to people going in and looking for it. Because it exists here on earth. It's not like UFOs you know that come from out of space.

27:10 You know, it's the viable, could be compromised. I don't really know, Jeremiah, but but the evidence is too compelling about its existence, in my opinion, far too compelling. It is. It's a fascinating conversation, and but I would like to let's start looking into Yeah, it sounds like you've had really interesting I mean interactions. Are you seen things even more intense than what you saw in Sumatra. Oh yeah, yeah, in Canaanasciez. It was many years ago and I was with some friends and it's really funny I passed the spot. Well, I was just there recently.

27:54 I passed the very same spot, which is really as you go on the Route forty, it's called Kalnaskis trail Route forty, So as you go inside Kananaskis and you travel on this area for it's many many k I don't know how many kilometers, maybe fifty sixty kilometers. So it's on either side dense forests and you can see the forest. It sort of goes for miles and miles and it joins the slopes of these rockies in the foothills in between in little patches, you have little open patches of where the rivers are, creeks are of willow breaks. And that's when I saw this creature. And you know how when you first see something there's your eyes are trying to focus because your first thing that goes to your brain is you can't your eyes are not really being able to assimilate what you're seeing because your brain is not interpreticting according to what the brain already processes.

28:55 There's no information, if you know what I mean. And seeing this creature, which we did, and I said it wasn't for a very long time, but it was for sufficiently long time to see that it definitely wasn't a human. It definitely wasn't a beat and what else could be that height, that stature, that color unless it was an identified species. And we were all globsmacked. And the fact is that, you know, we couldn't interpret what it was. And in canon Ascus there's an information center which you can visit and you can speak to the staff or whatever.

29:36 But the fact is a lot of the people there they don't want to believe or and then where would you have the evidence to be able to go and say, well, you know, i've seen something. It was definitely this, and here's a photo because everything is dependent on having photographic evidence. And at that time, you know, we weren't carrying cameras around or phone cameras and such as the experience that you don't have the time to be able to look right, it's not just something here, it is. You can I see animals. I do wildlife photography as well, and I see animals and sometimes I'm looking at them for so many seconds, but I still don't have the time to focus and take a picture right and record it because of the light or because of the movement and everything else.

30:17 And what I saw was definitely what a lot of people report as having seen it sort of fit that criteria and very dark blackish brown in color, very heavy set, very tall. I couldn't see the features clearly, but the head was like definitely, it wasn't like a gorilla when people say like a silver backgrilla, then there's no comparison to that, but thick set, like you know, probably a big head, but not like a gorilla silver back head with a big sagital crest now but broad. Shoulders, big for society who will be right back after these messages, and.

31:10 The arm length and everything, and it definitely was not a bear one hundred percent. And if it were a man again, it would have to be. See the height is that's a thing. It's very difficult to determine a height at that distance from the road when you see something inside this inset, But the distance was such you could still determine that this thing was at least at least seven to seven and a half feet. But it wasn't just the height, it was the body measurements. It was like the size of the shoulders, the chest, the legs, the length of the arms. No human and it would have to be I mean, it would have to be some type of suit that would be designed by I don't know what, because the way that you could see the fur and everything move on that body, no suit, no fake suit or made suit could do that.

32:01 So just to make sure I have the scene set. When you're looking at the creature, are you seeing it dead on or are you seeing a side view and it's it's moving across. At the time it was, it was brief, so I didn't see it front on. I didn't see it front on as far as I can recall, I saw it, but I saw it side on and I saw it move. Yeah, so I didn't see its face. Okay, yeah, I didn't see its face clearly, but I can all I can remember seeing it side side on and at the back of the of the backside of it.

32:42 It sounds like you had the ability to see muscles moving under the fur. If I don't muscle, see a kind of a mass, yeah, a mass that was was significant. Yeah, the fur definitely wasn't a suit. How far away would you would you guess? Again, this is hard. I know I put on my thing because now because it wouldn't it will one hundred feet maybe eighty two hundred feet wow, Yeah, because we were on the highway and when you go to Kanahaskas, these clearings when you get out on the road, some of the clearings are very like they're very close to the road. So the areas where you're looking at the wildlife sometimes like I've just seen. I just came back.

33:34 I think I was telling you. I was in kanaonask Canada and America just this last month. So I saw grizzly bear there fifteen twenty feet away. Wow. So but this was much but this was so I compared to that, This was further. This is further than that. This was much further than that. This wouldn't and this wouldn't have been forty now moves I'd say about eighty two hundred feet. Yeah, just as it came, it moved. It moved. And that's another thing, the way that it moved the stride and what was really odd when it was moving it it didn't like walk upright completely erect with its legs completely straight.

34:16 There was like a slight bend in the legs, if you know what I mean. So in other words, like as though when it was walking, its knees were not locking, were not locked, so like it's the upper thighs were at a slight angle to the shins, which I find really odd because any human doing that would be very peculiar. What kind of posture did it have for the upper part of its body if you noticed. Well, let's put it this way. The back and now I'm going by memory many many years. The back was a slightly brave, broad shoulder. But if you look at the back slightly curved like when I say curved, like, it looked more sort of con vex, so like a very heavy, very very heavy I wouldn't say. And it wasn't. Yeah, the upper posture wasn't like erect like you see a man standing erect. It wasn't erect. It was slightly I wouldn't say, hunched, but slightly forward, but not like you know where we stand erect with our shoulders pulled all the way back. No, not like that, not one bit.

35:27 Did you notice did it have a neck at all to it? Or no, No, absolutely no visible neck. No, that's what's really funny. It was so solid on the on the on the head and the on the shoulders that I definitely didn't see that any sign of if it was a. Very short neck, but a very muscular neck, but not like a human neck. Any visual ears that you remember. No, they might. I'm sure there must have been, I condo, but definitely not not like ours stick out or like some of our humans. No. So, thinking of the arms and then thinking of the hands, Yeah, how far down did the let's say, like the fingers go on on the to the rest of the body.

36:16 You see, it's again like that one I saw on Tinka Tunka. That's why it also struck me when I saw Thinka Tunka's video that stone through arms were extremely long, much longer than any human I've seen. I mean, if you're talking along, i'd say I might come be certain, but i'd say beyond the knee. But I'd say I'd say the arms were how do I put it longer, seemed to be even longer than the legs. What I found was that, funnily enough, seeing its lower legs didn't seem to be as huge as the upper part of the body, the torsa or the arms, so the arms were very very long, but very thick. I mean, I don't know how to describe it, like like when I looked at you know, I've seen bodybuilding and weight trainers, but did nothing compared to this from what I could, you know, from what we could see. That's why I was amazed, because I thought when I first saw, I thought, this is a massive bear, but then we realized it wasn't a bear.

37:14 Was the entire creature covered with hair or fur or did you notice there are parts that were not covered? See? It was really funny because again the conditions, the distance, whatever light there was, it seemed blackish. But when I say blackish, maybe very dark brown in certain with certain tints like in certain wather light might debiniating or whatever there was. So if it's like like a matte, completely matte uniform black like you see shiny black, not necessarily. I mean there might have been little tints of slightly very dark brown, but that was overall color. It was very dark brown to blackish. But I couldn't see like in between parts of skin, not that I remember, Like you know, like weather hairs fluffed up in the skin is visible through no.

38:05 So over the years, you've had probably so many times of looking observing wildlife in its natural habitat. Did watching this creature remind you of any other creatures that you had seen, or maybe you're like, wow, this is way different than other things that I've seen before. I think this was This was the strangest experience I've had. I've never come across a cryptid, you know. But some people say, well, this is a cryptid, right, an unknown I'm verified species, So this is the first time I've ever come across a cryptid. But yeah, I mean the sense that you know that we have a long lost relative, if you like, or lost link in the chain of human sort of ape evolution. But then again, you know, when I spoke to a lot of these anatomists and biologists that I know in some of the organizations I worked for, what they said to me is, well, hang on, when you think of it, there were so many Homo species, so many Homo acts, Homo habilists, I mean in names.

39:15 I can't even recall their vast number, And how is it that they all became extinct except for Homo sapiens and why should they have become extinct because there were many areas of the world that Homo sapiens didn't infiltrate necessarily. I mean, we know about Neanderthal and Denis Ovian's okay, fine, but the earth is still huge. It was huge then it's still huge. And it comes back, Jeremiah to what I was saying earlier. Russia thirteen million square kilometers Siberia on which there are millions of the area of forest in Siberia that is untouched, that is unexplored is the size of India at least at least three million square kilometers. And you're telling me in that there's the possibility of there not existing. Something like this arises, I mean, not nonsense.

40:01 If you take China, China's nine million square kilometers in size, it's the same size as Canada or USA. It's got a million square kilometers of forest protected forest, which is five times the size of the UK. So when you look at the figures and you look at the statistics or how much forest there is in the world, how much is still unexplored or inaccessible, and how possible it is to support species like even Bigfoot, even a seven eight feet three hundred five hundred eight hundred pounds is very viable. And why is it, Why is it that this is where the sightings are occurring. Take the Yowi in Australia. In northern Australia again, vast forests, Queensland, oh In a lot of areas haven't been explored, northern territories that the pope. There's hardly any population there. I think, what the total area of Australia, which is seven million square kilometers, which are twice the size of India. Total populations what thirty million? And it's all concentrated around the coastal areas. So taking that into account, when people say, well there's a yali, it's entirely viable, entirely viable. And rather than have a world have an open mind, because I think what it is is everyone's more focused on spending money on let's protecting Let's protect elephants, let's protect tigers.

41:24 Let's protect these animals because we know they exist and we can. We've got resources definitely allocated to protecting these species. So let's make that a priority. But I think there needs to be some organization that creates a fund for the protection and preservation of this animal too, because before it disappears, and it can disappear through a whole. And how is it now that with these forest fires that we're having in North America, with more sort of lumber mining going on and expansion of cities and things, that people are having more sightings. That's not a coincidence. It's a very fact that as we're going more and more into their territory, they can't stay elusive in every single spot all the time. So, yeah, definitely, I'm convinced it exists.

42:11 I wasn't convinced maybe twenty twenty five years ago. Whatever, I'm one hundred percent convinced now, and I'll take my whole reputation on it and working with as I still do in wildlife circles here and elsewhere. And you know, I know some of the top people and wild I known me, like w Banks, David Atinburgh, John Burden has now passed away CEO of London's Logical Society, very prestigious position, right and doctor David Shivers from Cambridge University in England, one of the top promatologists in the world. Why would they also share the same views as I do? So yeah, and that's my take on the whole thing, Jeremiah, And it does trouble me. It troubles me because I think that, you know, when you've had an experience, you know, not think that this thing exists. And as a lawyer doing all the you know, putting all the evidence together, and it frustrates me that not more people are taking it seriously.

43:10 I agree with you that there and so the thing people in the community, I think we look at it as okay. Once it's discovered, that's when the conservation happens. Do you agree with that or do you think it needs to start before it's it's discovered. I think it needs to start before it's discovered. And I'll give you one example. If you take the Java and tiger. It was declared extinct about thirty years ago, but there have been sightings of this animal in the recent especially in the last five ten years. Again because you know, Java, this island and in Indonesia is one of the most densely populated for its size, and there's been more and more mining, more and more deforestation, and so I think that's also resulted in more sightings of an animal which was thought to be extinct that was highly out. It's a long place, so again there's no photographic evidence. It's just on the basis of what's really reliable, credible testimonial evidence. But at the moment they're doing everything to create a fund to protect it because they believe it does exist, and before it disappears, it has to be protected. And that's the point. Before something disappears, you have to do something. You can't wait un till it's on the point of disappearing to then think, well, okay, we'll do something because now we believe it might exist.

44:27 I feel like in the US a scientific community does not take the topic of sasquatch seriously at all. At least that's I feel what the community, the big foot community feels. In order for let's say the wildlife the world wildlife community or the conservation effort, what would it take for them to really take it as serious? Would it take a type specimen captured or or killed, or DNA evidence or do you have any thoughts about that? Yeah, that's a good point, jeremiar. And that's what they say. I mean, I've heard them say, oh, we need a body, we need a corpse, we need a cock before we can say that it exists because they seem they seem not to have accepted the DNA, which I find incredible because there's been a lot of DNA that has been submitted.

45:19 A lot of top institutions have admitted have admitted that's certain, not all love. Certain hair samples don't match any identified species on Earth. So what does that say? That's evidence in itself. We don't need a body, because what would the body do the body? We just have a picture of his creature. But then you still have to look at the you know, the It could be a fake body, couldn't it could it could be something that someone has contrived and put together some creature from whatever so or some special effects. I don't know what doll. So they still have to look at the organs and do the analysis. It's like these Mexican mummies they've found of these aliens. They didn't just look at the creature. They and then examine the DNA.

46:02 Big for society, who will be right back after these messages. But when our DNA is showing us. And the other guy that I find is very convincing is Jeff Meldrum. I think it's Jeff, who's from Idaho, university, and you know when he's looked at the casts of the feet and looked at the dermal ridges on the soles of the feet and say, well, hang on, how can these dormal ridges? So if it's a fake cast, they'll have to make sure it has a sort of a plastic thing on the foot. So when this thing is moved across the ground, it changes so that it looks like the you know, like the domal ridges or on the feet that are very plastic and pliable. But then the other thing about that avidence is who goes into a forest places a cast a foot, a fake foot on the ground that makes an impression of maybe a couple of centimeters and on an age on the ground that you and I stamping on wouldn't be able to make an impression on it, and then continues for like a kilometer through creeks, through river beds, uphill downhill without leaving any other traces. Right, So you'd have to have somebody with a machine. He's sitting on top of the machine and he's jumping on this machine to break these just

47:33 not feasible. It's just not feasible, right, And just for them to tell around and say no, it could be a it's a fake footprint. I agree a lot is fake. I'm not saying there isn't. I believe a lot of the videos are fake. I think ninety nine percent of fake, but you can't dismiss the one percent. So DNA evidence a lot of these footprints during the Dermo ridges is highly convincing evidence. And I think think a tunker. I think think a tunker is a guy who nope. I mean, I've watched a lot of videos, but he's the one person where the analysis he's done on a number of videos has also backed up a lot of the evidence that we have. And by the way, evidence is that to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, it's threefold literary, it's testimonial, and it's physical. And we've got the physical. We've got the physical by way of the DNA, which no one wants to really talk about, but there is that DNA saying it's an unidentified creature. We've got the dermal that the feet prints, we've got a lot of the video stuff that we've seen with the analyses, and then we've got the eyewitness accounts. And by the way, when I talk of eyewitiness, accounts. As you know, Jeremiah, I'm talking about going back hundreds of thousands of years, going back to the original inhabitants who are saying this is not a mythical creature, this creature exists, and that from the first explorers who came to America similarly saying that they've seen it or they knew about it. The scientific community is just very blinked and it needs to stop being blinked because we know science is also not a constantly changes.

49:02 That's a great thing about science is to be able to integrate new belief systems and to allow people to collect the evidence to prove those belief systems. Being a wildlife conservationist, are there certain things that Americans should be doing to kind of set the foundation for the time when there is in something let's say there's a specimen taken in southeast Oklahoma. When that happens and it becomes mainstream, we have to be extremely on it very quick or it's just all going to fall apart, like we need to have our foundation in place. I feel, yeah, I think you're right, because we don't know what will happen in those circumstances. I do remember, and it comes back to coming back to what you're saying.

49:52 There was a case I've seen the video where a ranger in one of the parks in America. I can't remember which one it will maybe Yellowstone or something, but I'm not sure, and he was interviewed and he said that, no, we've seen this creature, we know it exists, but we were told by a boss that if you tell anybody and you produce the evidence, you lose your jobs. That's the problem, right that You're involving so many other than organizations. It's involves the police, it involves forensic scientists, it involves the government and a stay who make the decision right, what should we do? Should we dispose of the body? Should we put it into storage? Should we to further investigation is made, So you need to have something under the law. And I know that the laws are such now that freedom of information public information should allow anyone in America to say no, if this is something that's been found, like a bigfoot, it's in the interest of the public of the United States and who are taxpayers who are members of under the Constitution, to know what this is and to be able to see it, and for representatives of the public, whoever they may be. The big Foot socie to come and make their own determinations and get an injunction and say, well, if you try to dispose of this or you try to destroy the evidence, it's a potentially it's a it's a criminal act. I don't know much about. But see, the great thing about America has a great constitution and it allows for this right.

51:18 And the very first laws that allowed a disclosure of evidence for benefit of the public. All this came from America, right, And it's better that it's found in America than I think anywhere else. So because we have the safeguards in America that you don't have in most other countries in the world. To be brutally honest with you, I think the problem. The problem, Jeremiah, we have too many fragmented organizations in the world. I'm not just talking in America. If you look at our Bigfoot organizations, it's very heterogeneous. There's so many different societies. It needs something. You need something to come together. You need many societies to come together to form a corpus and say well, look, we all let's share our evidences, let's share our experiences, and let's form from that a corpus of data that's common at all, and then then we know this is one, two, three, four five. And I think what we've also got to show the public is if they say, well, how come it doesn't you know, we don't see it. It's such a big creature. We've got to be able to show them why. And I can tell you why. I've been in jungles all over the world. I've been trekking for ours and ours to see certain animals, and I haven't seen animals that should be visible. Because when you go into the tea, how many people have been trekking? I mean when you've been tracking. I've been trekking in the Rockies, have been trekking in mountains and the andes in the Himalias.

52:38 When you're trekking in these places, you go into certain certain places you can't track. You just can't. I mean you just haven't got the equipment to do it. I mean you're talking of I'll give you an example. In India, we have grass called elefant grass. It grows to about twenty thirty feet. It's very thick, it's very compacted, and can't even move through parts of that. Elephant grass that even for an elephant, it doesn't have the strength sometimes to move through those those grassy areas, and it's so thick that you can't see any animals. So yeah, tigers live sometimes in there, leopards live there. Pythons that are fifteen to twenty feet live in these same grassy patches which nobody sees. So we've got to dismiss this argument.

53:30 Oh but you know, hang on, wait a minute, guys, how come you know we've been in thunders of years and this animal's eight feet tour We haven't seen it. As have you been inside these areas which got tens of thousands of square kilometers dense forests, deep gorges? Can you trek through that? Can any human trektor that? How many people have been there? And you think an animal like that can't survive? It's got an abundance of species. And Jeremy, you know better than I do. Right, if you go to the Rockies, you go to America, Yes, such an abundance of food source in these forests. You know you've got in summer dandelions, flowers, berries, there's a vast amount of food for these animals to survive on.

54:11 I mean bears can survive. Brown bears, grizzlies that weigh up two thousand pounds eight feet talk can survive just by the plant matter that's in these forests. So I think we need to be able to tell people try to get rid of these preconceived notions in your mind and have an open mind that how can there only be one species of homo in this world and apes? What about in between? We know there were australopithoscenes millions of years ago. There was not just humans. There were australopitho scenes and then there were apes, and ostralopithoscenes were between the two. So in other words, they could walk unlike apes, but like humans, they could walk for continuously for long dist and so it's or even permanently. But like apes, they couldn't lock their ease, so when they walked, and they had more the dimensions of apes like for example, shorter legs, longer tosser than a human, longer arms exactly what I saw. What I saw was more like an ostralopithesy.

55:22 It was like that species intermediate between apes and humans, that intermediate evolutionary gap, which we haven't studied enough. So yeah, I think that's what we need to do. The sighting of the creature and kind a nascus. When you saw that and you were able to see it move, did that affect you in any way emotionally? How are you? How did I felt? First of all, I felt just so utterly frustrated that I couldn't record it visually because I wasn't you know, this wasn't a trip for photography, frankly, because you know Kanonaskus at that time, I mean, at that time seeing any animals, wild animals, and I've seen enough of the wild animals you know, mountain goats and which you call it a bighorn sheep, And basically the prospects of seeing bears wasn't that great in Kananaskus, although I have seen them since. So my frustration was I didn't have the equipment with me to take which I normally take to do photography, to be able to capture this. But then I realized that it wouldn't have been a very good picture because I wouldn't have had a good enough view, a longer time enough view to focus and take a picture.

56:40 So there was a frustration. Maybe it was my ego, oh my god, but it was also. Yes, it was a frustration at knowing that this thing exists and I've seen it, and I'm not discussing it with a lot of people apart from some of my friends that I was with that I discussed it with, and one of them also who was from the States, who actually came to visit and himself couldn't believe what he said. And I actually wanted to become a doctor. So he's the last person and he told me, I don't really want to talk about this because people will think I'm a bit crazy, and in my line of profession, I don't really want to be looked on. So I said, okay, fine, but you know, you know what you saw. I know what I saw and what the other saw. That's all that's important. And now you know that, you know, we have to create awareness of the fact this didn't exists.

57:33 But yeah, I was very frustrated. I felt very I isially much here because I thought this is amazing I've been but you know, I still was of the view that I didn't really know what I'd seen until it was very confused, and because I just didn't know what it was, I knew that it wasn't a bear, and I knew it wasn't a human and it was something between. But what well, then, when I've compared all my other experiences, and I'm now fifty five years old, so I'm not like one of these guys youngsters that sort of prove himself well and oh, you want to get some fame and credit. No, I don't. I just want to be able to tell people that this thing, in my opinion, does exist, and that there will be more sightings. There definitely will be more sightings, and it's happening. It's happening as we speak. I just saw recently in near Banff these campers who had put out a camera and they were at night camera and it shows the video of this massive creature standing by their tent at night, but two or three in the morning over the tent, size of which is huge. Not a bear, not a human, because you can see the fingers, you can see the hands.

58:46 This is again with unidentified hominide creature. So we're having these experiences and they're becoming more and more common. People have seen them more and more. Would you ever want to see you one again if you had the chance. Oh yeah, one hundred per yeah, I would like to protect it as well. And I think it needs to be protected. And I think you know, the States are doing a good job, Jeremi. I think Washington State. I believe they already have signs that you know, I'm like for the big foot, like big foot crossing. See. The great thing about the United States is open minded. Right.

59:27 That's why it's gone ahead so much technologically, so much in terms of in every way, every sphere of modern advancement, because it's always had an open mind to discuss, to bring in new ideas and to explore. But that type of open mindedness doesn't exist in a lot of other parts of the world. But I will mention one other thing. If you look at I'm sorry, I hope I'm not going off your question. Just that just occurred to me. You talk about seeing There was a very famous case in Russia, which everyone I'm sure knows about who's a Bigfoot enthusiastic, called the diet Love incident in Russia, and diet Love occurred in nineteen fifty nine where some students from Moscow they went deep into the Ural mountains on an expedition geological expedition. Nothing was heard from them, and they seemed to have disappeared. An expedition was sent out and they were all found dead. What was very odd was some of them had their eyes gouged out. Some of them looked like they'd been assaulted and attacked and killed.

1:00:36 So the Russians put it down through the fact that it was probably a freak accident, an avalanche or something else. Of course, there was no sign of avalanche, and that was dismissed. Then they said, oh, there might have been some testing of some weapons nearby, the fallout of which killed them. No such evidence. Then evidence was found on one of the cameras of one of the victims who died because none of them survived. By the way, when they developed that film, the film showed a creature from a tree coming from a tree line approaching the camp, huge creature which to this day they have not been able to prove it as being a hoax or a fake whatsoever. They don't know what it is. So the theory is that they were attacked by some creature creatures that they're not known to science, and they were killed.

1:01:29 And the fact is that the Russians dismissed it. But then a secret expedition was sent out by the Russian government to look for evidence of these creatures. It was all kept top secret. If you speak to any of the ex Soviets today or whatever may be, people maybe who left Russia even are still living there, they say no, it was a big cover up. The Russians were convinced that these people were killed, and they were killed by something that was not known to science, by the creatures that are not known to science. So Darnlov is very, very bizarre because there's no other way these people could have died. They couldn't have died through at Lanche, they couldn't have died through military attacks or anything of the kind.

1:02:14 So what killed them? I mean no, wolves and bears would have killed the whole every one of them in the way that they were killed. So you know, I think that there will be a lot more sightings of this creature, and in fact, I'm intending to go back again to North America myself to go and explore these areas around Calgary like Kananaskis where a lot of sightings have been banf Can Moore, and I know even in Yellowstone in accident, I was in Yellowstone in June May sorry end of me and I was speaking to some of the rangers and I said, oh, I saw that video and year all faithful that sort of in that vicinity where the in the winter, they showed these three huge creatures walk in the background, and I said, now do you know what that is? What was it? Was it?

1:03:07 He said, we don't know. It's very puzzling, he told me, he said, we don't know what it is. Said, it's very odd. So it wasn't bear, is it? No? As it could? It a bit too tall to be humans, anythink? Even he agreed, So that's funny. So yeah, so they know, they know, Jeremiah, they know, but they're not telling people, right. Oh then I do, Yeah, yeah, they know. When you look at the evidence right now that you're talking of, thirty nine thousand square kilometers is the Greater Yellowstone Area, and an eighteen nine thousand if you take eighteen nine thousand, if you take the entire of Montana, Wyoming, Idaho protected areas like Custa Gality and Lewis Clarks Has showing a flat aired reserved forest, all those areas together eighty nine thousand square kilometers. And you tell me they couldn't be hundreds of these creatures easily easily with mountains also that are center ten eleven twelve thousand feet, most of which is inaccessible.

1:04:10 I think those are some really interesting ideas or places for you to look into when you come back over. And you may even want to look into Southeast Oklahoma. It doesn't sound like it's it's interesting, but now start to look into the Bigfoot of Southeast Oklahoma, like with the Nawac and the wood apes that are seen there, and it will absolutely blow your mind. Yeah, check that out. It's a thank you. Yeah, I'll definitely do that, Jeremiah. And I know coming back to the skun Cape also of Florida. See that's another very interesting thing because I've traveled through Florida extensively.

1:04:50 So I've been to sorry not they have a glade, but I've been to the Ocala. I'm sorry, my mind is going, yep, ag forest. I forget. I'm sorry, it'll come to me. But the huge forest there is. It's not just the south of Florida. Even central Florida has some very very dense patches skun caps. And I was talking to some I was talking to a police officer. I didn't mention this to you. I spoke to a police officer. He's from Dunellen. He was from Dunellen and he was about to retire and we were talking. Got to know him quite well. I've been on a number of trips and I've been to that place. And I met him and I said, Oh, this Skun Cape, it's really and he looked at me. He says, no, for sure, it exists. And I said, you're just having me? Or are you're just saying that because you're joking. He goes, no, we we we've had people who've seen something and it's and it's it's definitely not. So I'm trying to think, Jeremiah, there's a forest you know, Carla, I can't remember the name.

1:05:48 It's a huge forest, vast forest in central Florida. It'll come to me, but all in this vicinity. And he said, no, No, We've they people. We've had people campers who who've gone camping and they've seen it and they got so frightened. They just picked up this stuff and they left. You sure it's not a bear. Some of these guys, he said, he said, some of these guys that one of these guys are like six foot five and three hundred pounds, So he said, you know, why would he get so nervous right away? Absolutely, you may be thinking, O, Kala National Forest is quite big over by the one. Yeah. Sorry, you know, I've been to these areas, but I'm trying to think because in the area, traveled a lot and I've seen a lot of a lot of forest. Again, very tropical looking, dance dance forest. So yeah, thank you for that suggestion. I would love to do that. America is a great country and I try to get that as frequently as I can. Got a lot of family there, a lot of relatives there. I think it's very open minded, and I think it's if we've got chances of ever of being able to discover this thing and to record it, it's going to be in America more than anywhere else. Absolutely, I don't have I don't have that hope. Sadly, Sadly, I don't have that hope for anywhere else, because it's not the fact they don't have even the resources. They don't have that open mindedness. They don't have that sense of curiosity to explore. And because what I love about the States, there's an immense curiosity about everything. Let's find out, let's get the answer to this. Let's that's going to

1:07:19 search for the truth. But you don't have that in most of the places in the world. So I kind of said it better myself. But now what Yeah, an incredibly interesting and motivating conversation. I'm so glad that you've reached out to me. No, thank you, that's very sweet to you. I thank you so much for giving me the great honor, the pleasure and the privilege of speaking to you. I really do. And it's I have to thank you more than you than you're thanking me, because I think more thanks is you to you. Thank you, Dearingma, and I wish the best for your future expeditions, and please reach out if anything else, Yeah, definitely when you're looking. So I'm most certainly will do that. Jeremiah, thank you so much. And I'd just like to say all those people who may be listening to this podcast whatever, please keep an open mind. I mean, if I can have an open mind, I owe people everybody should and can't have an open mind, because this thing definitely exists. The evidence is there. It's just that people not prepare to accept the evidence for this, which they would, however, for other things.

1:08:22 Thanks Jeremiah, Thank you so much, Neav for coming on tonight. Thank you. Please take a minute to help out the show by subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so you don't miss any notifications, and share the episode on YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us on a podcast, thank you so much. Make sure that you're subscribed, share the show with a friend. Really, it's all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've had a Bigfoot encounter related to the following, or know someone who has, please reach out to me at big for Society at gmail dot com or pass on my email. Here's the list. If you've had any encounters in Oregon, which I'm sure there's probably a few of you out there, please feel free to reach out immediately. You can use email Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. A special thank you to all the big Foot Society, Patreon and YouTube channel members. It's your support that helps keep the show going and I extremely appreciate it. If you want to join in the fun, you can join over at Patreon dot com forward slash the big Foot Society. I'll see you there and again thanks for listening.

1:10:24 Her and I can get on here, we can tell our stories. Maybe there's somebody else out there listening. That's too afraid to tell their story. Maybe this will give them the courage to come out. And now it feels so bad about it, Who cares what anybody thinks. I know what I saw, I know what's out there. That's all I care about. Please let people on out, Please let them know. If you've ever seen one of these things, you need to tell because if you don't, then shame on you. You have.

1:11:09 Shame on you,