March 17, 2026

A NAWAC Researcher Shares New Encounters And Activity From Area X

A NAWAC Researcher Shares New Encounters And Activity From Area X
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Season 1

In this episode, we delve into the experiences of Tami Grimes from Florida, a Bigfoot researcher and board member of the North American Wood Ape Conservancy. Tami shares the childhood encounter that stayed with her for decades after she saw a massive creature outside her bedroom window near the Green Swamp of central Florida. That moment quietly shaped the path that eventually led her into the world of Sasquatch research.



Now actively involved in ongoing investigations, Tami discusses the work being done by NAWAC researchers and the long-term study taking place in the Ouachita Mountains of southeast Oklahoma at a location known as Area X. She shares details about unusual vocalizations echoing through the valley, investigators hearing something breathing just yards away in the darkness, and activity that continues to unfold around camp during research operations.



Along the way, Tami talks about the scientific approach behind the organization’s mission, the intelligence these animals seem to display, and why the deeper researchers go into the woods, the more complex the mystery becomes. From Florida swamps to the rugged mountains of Oklahoma, this conversation offers a fascinating look into the ongoing effort to understand one of the most elusive creatures said to inhabit North America.



Join us as we explore Tami’s journey, the research happening at Area X, and the encounters that keep investigators returning to the woods.

Resources:

https://www.woodape.org
https://www.facebook.com/noamwoodape
https://www.sasquatchscience.org/



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WEBVTT

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You're listening to bigflet Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In

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this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring

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you first hand encounters from people who say they've seen

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something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to

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quiet farms and crowded highways. The stories come from everywhere,

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and each one leaves us with more questions than answers.

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These are the voices of the people who've lived it.

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To settle in, because today you'll hear another account that

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just might change the way you see the woods forever.

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So stay with us, all right, Bigfoot Society, Welcome back

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to another episode. Today, We've got the privilege of talking

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to researcher Tammy Grimes. Tammy is another researcher and a

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board member of the NEAWAC, and you've heard from board

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member Rick just recently was able to get Tammy on

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the show as well, which is incredible. We're definitely going

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to have a discussion about things to do with Area

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X and research that's going on down there in southeast Oklahoma.

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But you know, welcome to the show, Tammy. How are

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you doing today?

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Thank you very much for having me. I'm doing very well.

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Thank you. I'm glad to be here and looking forward

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to our discussion.

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Absolutely. Is there anything else that you would like the

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listeners know to know about yourself for context before we

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get going.

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For context? I think that one of the questions that

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I get quite frequently, of course, is I think everyone

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who does this gets a question of you what brought

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you to this or what my background is that would

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lead me to this. And I don't have the typical

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background I think that people think of when you think

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of a sasquatch researcher, would ape investigator in that I'm not.

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I'm not a hunter. I don't have I don't have

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issue with hunting. My husband is a hunter. I firsonally

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don't hunt. But I don't come from that typical background.

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I spend a lot of time in the woods. I'm

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a hiker, I love camping, and I grew up doing

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these things. But my what led me to this is

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a little different, and did have an encounter and when

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I was very young. But I think a lot of

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investigators have this background of kind of this hardened a

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lot of a lot of background with hunting and that

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that type of thing, and so people they look at me.

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I have an office job, and I spend most of

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my day in front of a computer, and I think

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that surprises people when they find out that this is

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how I spend if I'm not in the office, this

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is how i spend the bulk of my free time.

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When I'm not with my family and I'm not in

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the office, I'm in the woods, investigating, And I think

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that that is something that catches people off guard when

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me find out that that's how what I do with

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my with my great time and how it how it

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got here is a little little different from what most

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people experience.

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Do you mind sharing a few minutes about the encounter

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that you had as a younger child.

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Absolutely, I would be happy to I didn't tell people

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for a long time because it comes with the stigma,

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and I've gotten to a point now where I found

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it's helpful for me, but it's also helpful for other

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people to hear about my encounter, so I'm happy to share.

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When I was four years old, I grew up in

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an area that is connected to the Green Swamp in

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central Florida, and I remember looking out in the window

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out in my bedroom window. It was one of my

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favorite things to do. My parents thought I was in

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bed asleep, but I was not, and I saw something

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out the side yard and I was. My window was

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about sixteet off the ground, so I'm at a pretty

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good height above the ground, and i could see there's

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like a utility shed for gardening tools and things, and

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I could see something moving over the top of the shed.

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And the apex of the shed was probably about six

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feet high five and a half sixtet high, and I

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could see something moving over the top of the shed.

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So I remember watching it and it approached from my

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right hand side, and very quickly it was right in

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front of the window, and I was it was looking

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down at me. It was probably maybe ten to twelve

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feet away from the window, so it was actually very close.

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But it was massive. It was the what I refer

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to someone named Lufarigno as the closest. It had that

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body build and very muscular, very broad across the shoulders,

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kind of tapered at the waist. It walked with a

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slightly forward bent. Its arms were very long, its hands

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were almost touching the ground, not quite, but it stood

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there for quite a while and we made eye contact.

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I could see where the hair started it on its

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face like under the eye here under the orbital long

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the long the length of the upper lip from the

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nose to the top of the lip was very, very long,

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and it did have slight, slight lip, not like humans do,

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but it did have a slight lip and a little

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bit longer of a not a beard, but the hair

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on it chin was a little bit longer than the

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hair that came off the rest of the jawline. The

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forehead was very flat, and it came up. The head

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came up to a point, so I had a very

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defined sat of a crest and no neck. I remember

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seeing that. It just it went from like head to shoulders,

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and the animals stood there and looked at me for

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I don't exactly know how long because I was four

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years old. And then it suddenly took off, and the

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speed at which it took off was absolutely astonishing. It

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startled me. I went and told my parents, there's a

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monster outside. It's really big. I don't know what it was.

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And I know those words because my mother repeated them

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to me recently. She recalls me coming to them and

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telling them they thought it was asleep. She put me

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back to bed, said you're just having a bad dream,

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and which is what any parent would do. I unfortunately

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had nightmares for twenty five years from that encounter because

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I was trying to reconcile what my parents were, what

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my mother told me, there's no such thing as monsters

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to what I saw, and I could not put that

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out of my mind, could not get rid of the

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fact that I saw this animal. And although I kept

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having this recurring dream over and over, the thing that

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it wasn't that the animal was right in my face.

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That was a scary dream. But the thing that always

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frightened me the most was the speed which this anama

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moves because I knew, at four years old, I knew

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that there was nothing you could do if that animal

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wanted to catch you. There's nothing to do to get

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away from it. And it wasn't until I was in

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the second grade there was a small book in my classroom,

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little classroom library on crichtids and flipping through the book

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and it had things like fairies and wood carvings of

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ware wolves and vampires and things like that. But the

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book only contained two photographs. One was of the Latinus

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monster and the other was Frame thirt fifty two from

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the Patterson Gimmelin film, and when I saw that, I

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immediately recognized that as a real animal. And then, of

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course in nineteen seventy seven, when the In Search of

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episode came out, I remember sitting in the living room

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floor in front of the television and I asked my mom,

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says show real and she said, well, I don't know,

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it's probably make believe. But I knew what I was

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looking at was the same type of animal. She looked

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different body shape, but I knew that it was the

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same animal, and I knew that animal was real. I

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didn't talk about it though, because there was nobody who

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wanted to talk about Everyone was telling me it was

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just that you're just having nightmares. Put it out of

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your head, and kind of one of those if you

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focus on it, it's just going to make it worse type situations.

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And that's what you would expect parents to tell their children,

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but I did. I suffered with really, really bad nightmares

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for twenty five years as a result of that encounter.

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That is incredible and what an active area the green

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Swamp is. What year did this happen? Approximately, this would

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have been.

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In seventy one. The winter this would have been the

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winter if seventy one or seventy two. So I'll let

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the listeners do the math on that.

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Uh.

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And it was at that time the term bigfoot was

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not common in central Florida. That was not a topic

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that we had really heard, the legend of Boggy Creek.

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I remember seeing that movie at the drive in with

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my parents. We all went on family night. We went

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to see that film, but that was after. We didn't

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see that until after I had had this encounter. But

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I also knew that what I was looking at was

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Hollywood costume. I could definitely tell the difference. As a child,

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like I knew that that was a not a real thing,

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but that was someone in the costume. But this was

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not the closest thing I'd ever heard. My grandmother referred

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to it. My dad's mom referred to it as a

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wood booker. Now she was from Arkansas, my dad my

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dad's family was from Arkansas. And she said, if you

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dwell on them, all you're going to do is is

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that you you draw the woodburgers to you that that's

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kind of the terminology, but just could use so you

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don't want to you don't want to draw you don't

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want to dwell on them, you don't want to focus

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on them. So, but that was the closest terminology that

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I had heard used. Woodbourgers, haints, haunts, those were the

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type of terms that were used for things that were

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in the woods and other than that. It was not

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until the film, I think the Legend of Boggy Creek

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came out, that the in the Patterson Gimlin film, the

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episode on In Search Of When that came out, that

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that terminology became more familiar language in my little my

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little part of the world. At least, it wasn't something

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that was discussed in conversation when I was growing up.

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It just wasn't something that the kids and I talked about.

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It was not we didn't talk about that in school.

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It wasn't a term that we were familiar with until

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after that, really, until after that In Search Of episode

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came out.

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Okay, and you've got more information on a website called

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sasquatchscience dot org about research in the green Swamp.

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Correct, that's correct, that's correct. It's a work in progress,

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but that is a website that I've launched rather recently

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to try to compile some of the activity, some of

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the research that I've been conducting. We have been there's

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a small group of people that I know locally of

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research as investigators who we are trying to keep constant

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scientific research going in the Brunswap and in doing so,

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trying to further the database on these animals, their behaviors,

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the locations, that sort of thing. And we've been able

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to put together some documentation, at least for our own

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use of consistency of where the animals tend to be

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during different seasonally, and we're trying to put together information

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that we can try and document from a behavioral standpoint

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of what the animals are doing and where they are

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at different times of the year within the Green Swamp.

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The Green Swamp is nine hundred and thirty plus square

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miles of wilderness of managed Wildlife Management Area, and there's

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a lot of development going on around this area around

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the green Swamp places right through the green Swamp, so

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the habitat is being changed on a daily basis, and

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we're concerned what that impact is doing to all of

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the ams that live there. I conducted research years a

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year ago on what the impact is during hunting season

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in areas where there is no hunting. So it's a

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wildlife management area inside within the WMA that doesn't have

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hunting during the rest of hunting season, and what that

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does to wildlife, to the smaller prey species, and they're

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almost non existent toward the end of hunting season. I

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did a transit samplane study and couldn't find sign of

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small animals possums, raccoons, rabbits. I know that they're there,

225
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but they were very scarce, and they should have. On

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any other time of year, you would see a lot

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of tracks for possums and otters and things like that.

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But during hunting season, animals are compressed into this smaller

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area by smaller it's eleven eleven thousand acres, And there's

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something going on that's compressing these animals there, and it

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is putting a strain on the ecosystem while this is

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going on, and then when hunting season ends, the animals

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seem to kind of just either the prey animals are

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coming back to that area or the predators are leaving

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that area, and it's allowing the prey species to come back.

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It's I don't have enough data to determine what the

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causes are yet. I was just able to determine that

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there does seem to be data indicating that there's pressure,

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that this pressure on the environment exists during hunting season,

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and that's kind of thing that we're looking at to

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see what's going on in total in the green Swamp

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that is affecting all of the animals, not just this

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one particular species, but if it's affecting one species, it's

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affecting all of them. So it's going to affect the

245
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black bear and we've recently found panther tracks, so it

246
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is definitely impacting multiple species when we're seeing this type

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of activity.

248
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Well, that's that's some that's some wild stuff. I've not

249
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heard any of that information about the Green Swamp yet,

250
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so you are definitely doing some pretty detailed research down there.

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I'd say listeners definitely want to check out the website

252
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and keep an eye on it for sure. But you know, Timmy,

253
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how did you get involved with the NAWAC.

254
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:05.279
I have my mom to thank for that, going back

255
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to when I was four years old and she said, oh,

256
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it's just a bad drink, go back to bed. She

257
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was in twenty twenty two. She was on a Sunday

258
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drive with a friend a little bit south of where

259
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I live in Paulk County is an area where they

260
00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:30.319
do a lot of phosphate mining, and after the mining

261
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is completed, they put topsoil back on and they allow

262
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nature to reclaim the land because you can't really build there.

263
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The soil just doesn't allow for that. So it makes

264
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some really nice country drives. And she was on a

265
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Sunday drive with a friend and they were rounding a

266
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corner and she looked up. There was a berm that

267
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the berms hold in the back fill from the phosphate process,

268
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and she the burn is probably twenty five feet high.

269
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There were no trees, there's no shrubs, there's no structures there.

270
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But she looked up at the top of this bern

271
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and she saw a figure, a large, bulky figure in

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mid stride. You've got this type of stride, and it

273
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startled her. She was afraid to say anything because she

274
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was afraid the person she was stop wood stop, and

275
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she did not want to be there, so she didn't

276
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say anything. As soon as she got home she called

277
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me and she said, I what do you think I saw?

278
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And I was like, I don't know, Mom, what do

279
00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:50.559
you think you saw? So knowing that I've been had

280
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this kind of a mild obsession with bigwood sascage my

281
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whole life. She keeps asking me questions. So I went

282
00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:05.480
on a search for certainly there's an organization who's doing

283
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scientific study on the species. With all of the television shows,

284
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all the podcasts that are out there, there has to

285
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be an organization who's doing legitimate scientific study. And in

286
00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:23.240
trying to find the answers for my mom, I came

287
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across the NAWAC website. I read the information was on

288
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the website. I was really impressed with the approach that

289
00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:41.039
the organization took and took a chance. As I mentioned before,

290
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my background doesn't really lend toward what a lot of

291
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:50.480
other investigators bring to the table. But I applied and

292
00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:55.720
I was accepted as a member of the organization. And

293
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I've not regretted, not one minute of it. Spent Since

294
00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:06.039
November of twenty twenty two, I have spent as much

295
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:13.640
time possible learning from the people in the organization, not

296
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:16.920
discounting what other people are doing, not by a long shot,

297
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:20.200
because there are people who are doing incredible work. But

298
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:26.720
the members of the NAWAC, we have some of the

299
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:31.480
top minds and thinkers and investigators and researchers in the

300
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:40.200
subject and who are out often who are applying the science,

301
00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:43.319
and if they can't get in the field to apply

302
00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:47.680
the science, they are sharing ideas. That's something that you

303
00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:51.799
don't always encounter in this particular field. People who are

304
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:54.599
willing to share. They're willing to share what they know,

305
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:58.960
They're willing to share what they found, and the collaboration

306
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:04.240
of the organization is what really that's the biggest benefit

307
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:07.759
for me is being able to pick the brains people

308
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:12.440
like Alton Higgins and Bob Strain, Kathy Strain. Having access

309
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:20.160
to these individuals who have decades If you were to

310
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:25.279
take an add up collectively the years of knowledge hundreds.

311
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.480
We have centuries of knowledge on the subject and it's

312
00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:35.000
there just for the asking. And if you don't know,

313
00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:37.440
someone doesn't know the answer. There are plenty of people

314
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.519
there to collaborate and come up with ideas to art

315
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:46.119
toward a solution. The background of the membership range from

316
00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:52.640
educators to veterinarians and medical doctors and firemen, police officers,

317
00:21:53.359 --> 00:22:02.119
military and other branches biologists. It covers the board, the

318
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:09.680
gamut pilots. We have people from of very broad range

319
00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:14.759
of backgrounds who are bringing your expertise to the table.

320
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:20.200
And even if it's not one of the members his

321
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:24.960
day to day job is in the field of construction.

322
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.400
Actually several members their day to day job is in

323
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:31.200
the bield of construction. But this skill set that they

324
00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:36.359
bring to the table is that you give them a challenge, say, oh,

325
00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:39.880
who thinks that it wouldn't it be cool if we

326
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:43.640
had something that did this? Give them a few days

327
00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.759
and they're going to come up, like build it for themselves.

328
00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:50.680
They'll come up with this gadget or the solution. And

329
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:53.440
it's because they're used to working with their heats, they're

330
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:57.759
used to building things and making things. So it's not

331
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.599
even what they do day to day skill set that

332
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:04.440
they bring to the organization and that they're willing to share,

333
00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:11.000
And it's that incredible treasure trove of knowledge that the

334
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.920
organization provides that I just that's what I love about

335
00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:15.599
the organization.

336
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:21.920
For those that you know, this is maybe the first

337
00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:26.960
introduction to the NAWAC, Can you share a little bit

338
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:31.559
about what the goal of the organization is, what is

339
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:37.480
publicly known about where they're focused, and things like that.

340
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:44.279
Sure, absolutely, the overarching mission of the organization is to

341
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:51.720
prove to science and to the government agencies the existence

342
00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:54.599
of the species that we refer to as the North

343
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American City. The goal for doing that so that we

344
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can enact efforts to preserve their environment for the sake

345
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:10.160
of conservation. It would be an absolute shame if we

346
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:15.680
found out too late that the species exists, if we

347
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:20.240
can't act in time to preserve them, if the species

348
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:25.319
goes extinct. We have species, hundreds of species going extinct

349
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:30.359
parent simole day. And we even have species that are

350
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:35.359
identified and oh look, here's a brand new species and

351
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:39.200
it is identified, it is recognized, and it goes extinct

352
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:44.720
because we're not able to act soon enough to preserve

353
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:50.880
their environment an active conservation to be able to save

354
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the species. That's what we're trying to do. Our mission

355
00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:59.440
is to get the species recognized and be able to

356
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:04.519
enact to conservation efforts across the country. We are not

357
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:11.440
just in Oklahoma, that's where Area X is identified. Are

358
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:17.160
X is not named aria X because it's a mystery.

359
00:25:17.559 --> 00:25:22.680
It's named Area X because Y and Z didn't pan out.

360
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:25.640
There are other areas. It was just like an alphabetical

361
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:29.000
labeling and it's just area X is the one that

362
00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:34.359
panned out, but it does have this mystery, and of

363
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.119
course X marks the spot and all of those things.

364
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:43.359
But that's not the only place where the organization conducts investigations.

365
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:49.960
We have members who are conducting their own investigations as

366
00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:53.559
I do in Florida, members that are all over the

367
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:59.359
country who are conducting investigations in their own locations. They

368
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:02.400
are people we were investigating in Texas and Louisiana and

369
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:09.519
wherever they call home in Maine. We literally have members

370
00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:14.400
in all four corners of the continent. But we also

371
00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:18.920
respond when people contact the organization they've had an encounter.

372
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.480
If they've had a sighting, we will have an investigator

373
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.680
contact them. We will either talk to them if possible,

374
00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.240
we will go to the location. I did an investigation

375
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:35.359
recently that was in the Green Swath and we will

376
00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:41.319
walk that investigation. We will we will go through the

377
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:47.200
entire encounter with them if possible, and try to collect

378
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:50.839
as much data as we can for the purpose of

379
00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:55.680
adding to what we know the species, as far as

380
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:59.799
what are their behaviors, what are there seasonally, if we

381
00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:04.720
can pull together information about where they are in different

382
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:09.240
times of the year, or they don't tend to be

383
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:13.960
specifically more active at one time a day or at night,

384
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:16.519
because we have people who have sightings during the day,

385
00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:19.920
we have people who have sightings at night, but different

386
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.599
types that did it whistle at you, did it knock

387
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.559
on a tree? Did it throw a rock at you? Behaviorally,

388
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:28.079
we try to keep track of all of those things

389
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:32.400
so that we can try to create all of these

390
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:35.759
data points and use them to create a picture of

391
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:40.720
what this animal does, how does it communicate, how does

392
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:46.039
it behave because eventually we will get to a point

393
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:49.319
where it's not a question of whether or not this

394
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:54.759
animal exists. It will become a question of what do

395
00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:57.640
they do, what are they like? And when we get

396
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:04.519
past that. If you think back, it hasn't been that

397
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:09.039
long ago, one hundred and thirty years ago that the

398
00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:13.200
Mountain gorilla was considered a myth until it was finally documented.

399
00:28:13.480 --> 00:28:16.119
And it was even less time than that that the

400
00:28:17.319 --> 00:28:21.319
panda was identified. It was again considered to be a

401
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:28.359
mythical creature until science finally identified it in the scheme

402
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:34.400
of species. That's like no time at all, really, so

403
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:39.559
identifying a new species, especially a primate, it's twenty twenty

404
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:44.000
December twenty twenty four, there was a brand new primate identified,

405
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:47.839
and I think the guy was researching one square acre

406
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.480
along the Amazon and identified a new primate while he

407
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:55.680
was there. Identifying a new species that happens quite frequently.

408
00:28:56.119 --> 00:29:00.279
Primates are less frequent, but they do happen. Discover bringing

409
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:04.640
new primates happens. Getting this one discovered is not so

410
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:09.799
much about getting science to recognize it. It's first overcoming

411
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:14.559
the stigma associated with identifying this as a legitimate species.

412
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:21.480
But the bigger issue is that this animal is incredibly intelligent,

413
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:25.319
more so that people realize. And the more time you

414
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:28.960
spend investigating this animal, the more you realize how intelligent

415
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:34.839
they are. Primates in general are really really smart. This

416
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:39.079
one has got to be the smartest as far as

417
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:44.119
primates go, of the great apes, second to humans, this

418
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:48.000
has to be the smartest of the primates because they've

419
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:51.519
learned how to avoid humans.

420
00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:59.480
Wow, how close do you feel that the organization is

421
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:02.039
to to getting that goal that you have?

422
00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:07.359
We have gotten close it is. It's hard to say

423
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:14.640
how close because it is it's close close. So you

424
00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:18.000
play in horseshoes or hand grenades, that kind of thing. Right.

425
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:25.000
I have had an animal come in very close to me.

426
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.640
I other investigators have had animals coming very close to them,

427
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:35.759
so close that they could literally hear what was described

428
00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:40.200
as asthmatic breathing. And you've got to be pretty close

429
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:45.160
to an animal to hear it. Resporate you that that's

430
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:53.160
a close proximity to this animal. Getting evidence, there's lots

431
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:57.519
of ways to go about collecting evidence, and it again

432
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:02.119
comes down to what science is going to identify. People

433
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:04.359
will ask me, oh, I've got this picture of the

434
00:31:04.359 --> 00:31:06.920
big Foot. When you look at it and you see

435
00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:11.160
a picture and it's really a blob, and I will

436
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:14.000
tell them, you know, keep up the good work, keep trying.

437
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:18.839
But the benchmark, if it's not better than the Patterson

438
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:21.960
Gimlin film, it's probably not done to move the needle forward.

439
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:28.640
That said, with AI today, getting video, getting photos still

440
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:33.319
not going to move the needle forward. We need evidence,

441
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:38.920
scientific evidence that is going to either supplement or really

442
00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.079
drag the message home. If we do have video or photo,

443
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:45.480
we have to do more than just images at this point.

444
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:51.880
So we are doing a press for a DNA, We're

445
00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:55.920
doing a press for trying to collect other types of

446
00:31:55.960 --> 00:32:02.400
evidence that could include our samples are proving very difficult

447
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:06.440
to come by, but it is something that we are

448
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:12.200
constantly villaging for. We are also on always on the

449
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:19.200
lookout for opportunities to find any other type of evidence.

450
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:28.880
Animals die, especially primates, they lose teeth and if we

451
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:34.839
happen to be out and water flows downhill and washes

452
00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:37.640
things downhill with them. So when we are in the

453
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:40.680
in area acts, when we are walking around, we are

454
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:45.119
constantly on the lookout for bones and teeth and things

455
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:48.160
like that. It would be wonderful if we could chirp

456
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:51.440
across a bone or a tooth or something like that.

457
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:56.960
They're rare in North America. Teeth probably easier to find

458
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.160
because they stay around the longest when we're talking about

459
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:05.319
what's left over from skeletal remains. But North America is

460
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:12.160
just not very kind to remains. And that's why we

461
00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:15.920
don't have people say why can't you find fossil evidence

462
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:22.319
or why can't you find skeletal evidences. You might find hog,

463
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:27.720
you might find deer carcass. You rarely find bear carcass

464
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:31.160
just lying in the woods. And usually when you do

465
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:34.400
find deer fog, it's been hit by a car. Or

466
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.279
it's a hunter that has shot the animal and left

467
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:42.160
the rest of the carcass there. You don't find things

468
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:47.720
like bear just in the woods. It's rare. You can,

469
00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:52.160
but it's rare. These animals are even more rare than

470
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:56.720
black bear, and they're very hard to find. It would

471
00:33:56.759 --> 00:34:00.720
be great if we could just cross one. What I'm

472
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:03.440
getting to is the thing that most people are most

473
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:07.559
uncomfortable about, and that is that it is the mission

474
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:11.199
of the organization to collect the type specimen. It is

475
00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:15.679
not because we are mean, It is not because we

476
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:19.039
hate these animals. On the contrary, it is because we

477
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:23.840
are devoted to getting this animal recognized. And it is

478
00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:30.199
not our wishes. It is science that demands a type specimen.

479
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:33.840
If you've ever taken your child, or if you yourself

480
00:34:33.880 --> 00:34:37.679
have ever gone to any natural history museum, you are

481
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:43.960
going to see type specimens, thousands of them. They're not

482
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:50.840
made up of nylon, they're not made up of man

483
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:54.719
made materials. The type specimens that you see in the

484
00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:58.960
Natural History and Museum used to be living animals, and

485
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:03.440
they are now in that museum for people to learn

486
00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.800
from them. It is not our intention to go in

487
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:12.800
and wipe out a troop of these animals. We simply

488
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.639
are trying to get evidence so that we can document

489
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.920
the species. If we can do that without collecting a

490
00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:26.079
type specimen, that would absolutely be preferred. Science dictates otherwise,

491
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:30.519
and that makes people feel uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable.

492
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:36.079
I am personally not a collector for the organization. There

493
00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:43.119
are individuals who are identified. They are carefully screened. I

494
00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:47.159
am not a hunter, so I would not be a

495
00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:51.880
good candidate for that. But I also know that there

496
00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:54.199
are things I didn't like to taking my child to

497
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:57.480
have a doctor's appointments either. But there are things you

498
00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:59.519
have to do. You have to take your children to

499
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:01.719
the dentist, and the dentist does things do them that

500
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:04.400
makes them unhappy. There are things that we have to

501
00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:08.920
do that make us unhappy. And this is one of

502
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:14.519
the things that It's not something we are bloodthirsty to do.

503
00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:18.760
This is something that is necessary for us to be

504
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:21.960
able to get the species identified. It is the way

505
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:28.400
science has worked from the beginning. When it comes to

506
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.239
biology and getting species recognized.

507
00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:39.119
It it can be not a fun conversation, for sure.

508
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.679
Does the organization have a plan in mind? I mean,

509
00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:49.599
let's imagine for a minute. Someone does have a what

510
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.400
ape in their sights and they're one hundred percent sure, Yes,

511
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:55.480
this is not a human, So I'm going to pull

512
00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:58.119
the trigger and then we will have a type specimen.

513
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:02.880
If there are other wood apes around, logically one is

514
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:06.480
to think there will be retaliation. So what is the

515
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:11.280
plan in order to successfully harvest that type specimen and

516
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:15.320
to be quite honest, not get yourselves killed in the process.

517
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:20.719
There is a plan for that. It is we don't

518
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:28.480
know what's going to happen. Primates behave differently. Some primates

519
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:32.119
will if they hear gunshot, they will take off and run.

520
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:36.159
Animals in general generally do take off and run. We

521
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:40.199
have in it dotal evidence and that's all to go on.

522
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:48.000
Think about the Ape Canyon that in that incident. According

523
00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:56.280
to the retelling of that story, the apes retaliated. In

524
00:37:56.559 --> 00:38:02.159
other incidents of stories where hunters say they have shot

525
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:07.960
an animal, it just disappeared. The body just disappeared. There

526
00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:12.079
was one I don't remember. I want to say it

527
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:15.679
was in the Smoky Mountains where one hunter reported shooting

528
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:19.360
one and went to their retrievement and it was gone.

529
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:22.519
So don't know if it was for sure dead or

530
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:26.920
if it was a family member came to recover it.

531
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:35.519
We don't know because it hasn't happened yet. We do

532
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:42.400
know that the animals in response to gun fire will

533
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:48.159
vacate the area, but we don't know what's going to

534
00:38:48.199 --> 00:38:52.679
happen when if an animal is in fact taken. There

535
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:58.400
are other primates that in I have a friend who

536
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:02.039
was telling me that I believe it was hallow monkeys,

537
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:10.920
that he was in the military and hallow monkey was

538
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:15.119
shot and the rest of the truth responded and retaliated.

539
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:24.599
So really, yes, so, And they are incredibly strong and

540
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:29.920
can do that. They could kill you hallow monkeys if

541
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.599
it doesn't take a whole bunch of them. They are

542
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:40.639
very strong. Chimpanzees can kill an adult man. And the

543
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:45.519
primates are strong. People. Forget that just because it's smaller

544
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:48.599
than you doesn't mean that it's stronger than you. Play

545
00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:56.320
tuger war with your dog, right, So they're muscular and strong,

546
00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:59.400
and we don't know what these animals going to do.

547
00:39:59.719 --> 00:40:06.159
And wood apes are particularly large. They are incredibly agile.

548
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:11.920
As I mentioned before, they move probably the fastest land animal.

549
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:14.679
I've never seen a cheat up with my own eyes.

550
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:20.519
I understand the fastest land animal, I would imagine that

551
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:24.480
it has to be equally as fast. The speed is

552
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:28.800
until you've seen one move, the agility and the speed,

553
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:32.280
it's impossible to describe to someone. It's like trying to

554
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:35.159
describe how big the Grand Canyons to someone who's never

555
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:38.159
seen it. If you haven't seen how fast these animals move,

556
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:43.480
it's impossible to describe. And if you haven't seen how

557
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:48.960
large they are, it's impossible to describe their solid muscle.

558
00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:56.760
So if they did decide to retaliate it, it would

559
00:40:56.800 --> 00:41:01.639
be very dangerous. There is a plan in place. The

560
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:05.000
plan is I don't want to get into too much

561
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:10.239
detail because that's proprietary for the organization. But the plan

562
00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:19.239
first and foremost is security for the team members who

563
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:24.960
are on that particular operation. The safety and security for

564
00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:30.920
the members is one of the reasons why it's we

565
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:34.239
don't try and keep Area X private often like we

566
00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:40.039
don't keep the location private because we're trying to lock

567
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:43.079
away a secret from the world. The reason that we

568
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:48.519
don't publicly broadcasts where it is is because it's private property.

569
00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:52.039
The property. Hunimers have a right to their privacy, but

570
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:57.559
it is also to protect the safety of our investigators.

571
00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:02.480
It is to protect the animals themselves because we don't

572
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:05.599
want people out there. They have the animals have a

573
00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:09.400
right to there, to to live out their lives and

574
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:14.440
in their their happy their happy lives right they have.

575
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.800
They have a right to not be harassed in their

576
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:22.360
home environment. But also we don't want people to be

577
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:26.679
tripping into the area where they don't belong if there

578
00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:30.480
is an operation going on and get hurt that there

579
00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:34.159
are a lot of animals. That's a dangerous place. There

580
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:37.039
are a lot of animals out there that can hurt you,

581
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:41.599
not just apes. But we also don't want someone tripping

582
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:46.880
we don't be supposed to be Basically, and safety right

583
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:51.760
is safety is first and foremost when we're doing in operation.

584
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:57.840
Safety is first and foremost. Safety for the investigators, safety

585
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:02.320
for anyone who may anyone else to may be on property.

586
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:06.800
Because they're this private property in the area, there's also

587
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:12.320
National forest area nearby. We don't want to risk the

588
00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:15.760
safety of anyone who may be legally on national forest land,

589
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:22.400
including National Forest Service, So we always put safety first.

590
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:29.719
But second to that then would be securing that type specimen.

591
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:32.519
Because if we get to the point where we do

592
00:43:32.599 --> 00:43:36.599
collect the amount of time and effort and energy and

593
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:40.639
landing that has gone into making that successful. We want

594
00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:43.679
to make sure that we're able to secure the type

595
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:47.480
specimen as well, so that would that would be second only.

596
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:54.679
To personal safety one hundred percent is Logistically, I can't

597
00:43:54.679 --> 00:43:58.760
imagine it, because you know, there's there's questions like do

598
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:01.039
you have the whole specimen? Do you have parts of

599
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:04.880
the specimen? And then once you have it, where is

600
00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:07.840
it being taken? And how is it getting there? And

601
00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:10.800
how are you potentially not getting stopped along the way.

602
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:14.079
There's all these questions that are definitely proprietary.

603
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:18.280
All those questions have been discussed, and a lot of

604
00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:23.880
it is we have to let our investigators and the

605
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:26.760
team leads for each of the operations, we have to

606
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:32.000
rely on them. The team leads are selected based on

607
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:38.039
their experience in air X, based on their experience as

608
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:44.559
representing the type of individual that we need that we

609
00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:48.360
believe is going to provide best judgment in those types

610
00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:52.039
of situations. So we rely on the team leader when

611
00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:57.880
they're out there to make those decisions. And the again,

612
00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:03.480
what are we doing if something goes sideways? Who's going

613
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:10.519
to beforehand, before the operation starts, it's already dictated who

614
00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:14.400
has what role in the event. If it's a collection team,

615
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:18.159
in the event this happens, what is your role and

616
00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:22.320
everyone is expected to assume that role to make sure

617
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:26.480
that the operation goes smoothly from the time that the

618
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:32.039
collection is made until the specimen is secured wherever that

619
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:35.519
end location is determined to be.

620
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.559
Absolutely. Rick had mentioned a few really interesting things that

621
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:47.920
have happened over the past five years, and something I

622
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:50.559
would want to talk to you about today is you

623
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:54.079
are involved with the asset, the all female asset team. Correct,

624
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:55.119
that's correct.

625
00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:56.440
That's correct.

626
00:45:56.719 --> 00:46:01.079
That's awesome. Can you describe how that came to be,

627
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:04.639
how it works, and maybe some interesting interactions that have

628
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:06.320
come about because of it.

629
00:46:06.679 --> 00:46:10.880
Sure, it came about. I have to back up to

630
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:19.480
the year prior I talk about just it was. It

631
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:24.639
was like a week of master class. My very first

632
00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:28.920
week in aria X was with Altin Higgins, Daryl Collier,

633
00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:33.960
and Matt Pruitt. I mean like it really it was.

634
00:46:34.119 --> 00:46:40.320
It was an amazing week. I learned so much about

635
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:45.639
the topic and all three of them are just they

636
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:51.239
represent the best of what we're trying to do, and

637
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:56.400
I appreciate the opportunity so much to be able to

638
00:46:56.840 --> 00:47:01.280
learn from them. But what led me to that particular

639
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:05.360
team was a conversation that we had had on the

640
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:12.000
forum that they wanted to try and emulate the sounds

641
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:17.440
of women and children, because people report that when women

642
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:20.400
and children are in the woods, it tends to attract

643
00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:24.639
the attention of these animals. So I sent a private

644
00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:29.239
message and said, Okay, here's here's the deal. At this time,

645
00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:32.199
I wasn't even an investigator yet, I was just an

646
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:37.519
associate member. I said, but if I'm invited to airy X,

647
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:45.639
I would be willing to be that noisemaker. I know,

648
00:47:46.199 --> 00:47:48.119
sound like a girl, look like a girl, Smell like

649
00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:52.880
a girl, right, And it was kind of an opportunity

650
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:59.039
to test what that might. It's not that women don't go.

651
00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:05.639
We have women investigators in the organization, but typically so

652
00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:13.559
often what the operations are, it's very much the idea

653
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:20.119
is to go in covertly in camo, going into hides

654
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:22.639
to try to get pictures, you know, try to go

655
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:26.639
in covertly. I was going to do the complete opposite.

656
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:30.519
I was going to be very out in the open.

657
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:35.039
I was going to be as obvious as I could, laughing,

658
00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:39.239
singing talking. I literally took perfume in to the valley

659
00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:41.599
right just so that I into Area X, so that

660
00:48:41.719 --> 00:48:51.679
I could smell different. I took a dress and this

661
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:55.519
is really really funny. It's basically a little donna read

662
00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:58.440
a little white donna read dress. And I had every

663
00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:01.559
intention of hiking the trails where this dress, just to

664
00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:04.360
be different. And Alton says to me, because you know,

665
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:07.280
you don't have to do anything you don't want to do.

666
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:08.920
And I said, no, I don't mind.

667
00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:12.559
If it if it gets right right, if it if

668
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:18.039
it helps, and he goes, no, really, and he's like, no, really,

669
00:49:18.239 --> 00:49:20.400
you don't have to do and I said it's he

670
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:23.440
just don't wear the dress like HERD heard out and

671
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:24.679
heard it was.

672
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:28.000
It was really funny. I did not wear the dress. However,

673
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:35.000
I did spend time away from camp, away from away

674
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:40.079
from the main area where I would sit singing talk.

675
00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:42.360
I took a book and I read out loud and

676
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:44.840
I laughed and I cried and I sang, and I

677
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:49.159
hiked trails by myself to be as obvious as I could.

678
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:53.679
And it was my very first day in Area X.

679
00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:57.320
I think it was. We had been there maybe two hours.

680
00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:01.440
We had unpacked our gear and go over safety rules.

681
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:05.800
We had gone over our rules if a collection happened

682
00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:11.320
to occur on that particular operational week, and they're like, okay,

683
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:14.280
here you go, took me out to a location, hiked

684
00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:17.360
me out and said hang out, do your thing. And

685
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:22.119
while I was sitting there taking a quiet moment, I

686
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:27.199
heard my first Ohio how An areas. It went on

687
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:32.480
for eight to ten seconds, and I was just frozen

688
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:36.679
because I was like, am I hearing what I think

689
00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:40.360
I'm hearing? No, it was a distance away, but I

690
00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:44.679
was like, Okay, that was cool, you know, my first day,

691
00:50:44.800 --> 00:50:47.840
my first hours in Area X and actually hurting high.

692
00:50:48.199 --> 00:50:54.320
So okay, moving forward. At one point during the week

693
00:50:54.719 --> 00:51:00.559
I had there was a terrible thunderstorm and it was

694
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:06.679
lightning like crazy, and there was it was. It was

695
00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:12.480
really a dangerous type storm. And the guys are all

696
00:51:12.519 --> 00:51:18.639
in a tent somewhere else on the property close by,

697
00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:23.199
but I was in a cabin by myself basically, and

698
00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:26.840
one of the vehicles is parked next to the cabin.

699
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:33.440
It's probably maybe three feet away from the window, right

700
00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:36.239
next to the cabin wall. So it's very, very close.

701
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:42.320
And this is I told this story enough times it's

702
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:45.840
no longer embarrassing. But at the time I wanted to die.

703
00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:47.760
I didn't want to tell anybody this, But it is

704
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:51.440
kind of funny. I had run out of personals. I

705
00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:54.960
had to hand wash a pair of underpants, and the

706
00:51:55.079 --> 00:51:59.199
night that it was storming, I had this pair of

707
00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:03.519
underpants hanging in the window to dry. No, to anyone

708
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:09.239
who has never been nothing dries in the Washington Mountains.

709
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:13.079
It's too humid. It is more humid in the Washington

710
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:17.400
Mountains than it is in central Florida. So here they are,

711
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:20.760
it's storming like crazy, and I've got this pair of

712
00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:25.079
underwear hanging in the window. Right the storm finally breaks,

713
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:31.760
I can hear something. It sounds I can't tell if

714
00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:35.960
it's water dripping off the roof of the cabin, but

715
00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:42.119
it also sounds like a foot, And I'm like, don't

716
00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:44.840
you've got big foot on the brain, don't don't be

717
00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:50.480
that person. But I could I couldn't tell. It sounded

718
00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:54.880
like I could hear footsteps going around the cabin, the

719
00:52:55.280 --> 00:53:00.880
backside of the cabin, and I'm trying to just whether

720
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:03.280
to get up and look, it's pitch black. You don't

721
00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:05.400
see anything out there. This is three point thirty in

722
00:53:05.480 --> 00:53:09.599
the morning. And all of a sudden, now the vehicle

723
00:53:09.639 --> 00:53:13.719
that's part next to the cabins an sub. All of

724
00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:16.920
a sudden, something slams into the back of this sub

725
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:21.280
so hard that the roof rack rattles, the same way

726
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:24.320
that you if you slam the back deck of an

727
00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:28.559
sub really hard, it makes everything rattle. That's what it

728
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:32.000
sounded like. It was so loud that one of the

729
00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:34.239
guys did get up and come out of the tent

730
00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:37.880
because they thought that gear was blowing around. At this

731
00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:42.639
point though the storm had slacked, so I heard them

732
00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:45.599
come out and go back in because I heard the

733
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:49.639
tent door zipper opening closed. And the next morning I

734
00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:53.760
was like, what were you doing out in your vehicle

735
00:53:54.119 --> 00:53:57.119
that late at night? And he was like, I didn't.

736
00:53:57.559 --> 00:54:01.239
I wasn't in my vehicle at all. And I realized

737
00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:04.519
that if he had opened the back hatch, the light

738
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:06.800
would have been in my face because the door was

739
00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:10.920
right outside my window. Something slammed into the back of

740
00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:15.760
his truck so hard that it caused the entire vehicle rattle.

741
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:19.320
Now I don't know what it was, but it was

742
00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:22.199
the same window where I had my underpants hanging out

743
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:26.800
to dry, right, So that's what gave me the idea.

744
00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:32.239
What if we had an all female team and I

745
00:54:32.679 --> 00:54:35.519
told them when I volunteered, this is a little out

746
00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:39.760
of order. I told them, when I volunteered to go

747
00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:44.000
be the human, I would do it on one condition.

748
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:49.000
Do not call me bait because baite is just disposable.

749
00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:53.679
I would be considered an asset because an asset you

750
00:54:53.719 --> 00:54:57.480
will recover. And that's how the Asset Team name kind

751
00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:59.400
of came from. I'm like, okay, so what if we

752
00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:03.559
had an entire asset team and got to talking to

753
00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:09.320
some people at training camp the following year, and we

754
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:12.159
kind of put together a team from that where we

755
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:17.679
had a group of ladies who were willing to go

756
00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:23.159
and stay at the cabin and just be us and

757
00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:27.920
laugh and giggle and be loud, and we played movies

758
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:33.039
one night, and we did a campfire, and we were

759
00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:38.400
camping right, but we were also being very diligent with

760
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:43.920
thermals and conducting overwatch while an away team or a

761
00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:48.000
reaction force, depending on who you talked to. But the

762
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:54.960
away team of collectors was staying some distance outside of

763
00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:59.639
our camp, and they would come in very covertly and

764
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:06.320
take positions and in an attempt to be in position.

765
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:10.840
If we were able to get the attention of the

766
00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:16.599
wood apes to attract them into camp, that proved to

767
00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:22.239
be quite successful. I do have to say the activity

768
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:29.760
that we had around camp was pretty exciting. That led

769
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:37.159
to a number of encounters. We had a number of woodknocks,

770
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:41.239
which are you you can account for a number of

771
00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:44.159
those that would occur about the same time in the evening.

772
00:56:45.079 --> 00:56:51.400
A number of vocalizations that were occurring right at dusk

773
00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:55.599
that were coming just over the ridge line that were

774
00:56:55.719 --> 00:57:04.119
very primate in nature and were the closest I could

775
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:13.320
come to were sounds that hollow monkeys would make. We

776
00:57:13.480 --> 00:57:18.599
also I sitting around the campfire one night, i was

777
00:57:18.639 --> 00:57:24.960
looking at about about sixty yards away and I'm seeing

778
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:31.280
to what looked like almost like embers in the hovering

779
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:35.920
off the ground, and I'd go and that should not

780
00:57:36.079 --> 00:57:40.440
be there, and I'm looking at an eye shine it

781
00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:43.679
estimated about eight feet off the ground. It's the first

782
00:57:43.719 --> 00:57:48.119
time I'd ever seen eye shine like that. And there

783
00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:51.199
were a number of incidents like that that occurred, but

784
00:57:51.400 --> 00:57:59.480
probably the most impactful were two incidents where one of

785
00:57:59.480 --> 00:58:02.880
our invest gators on two different occasions, was in a

786
00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:07.119
high position and could hear what I was mentioning earlier

787
00:58:07.360 --> 00:58:12.159
that asthmatic breathing, where he described it as he said

788
00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:17.239
that the lung capacity was massive, hearing the air flowing

789
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:21.400
in and out. He said, it's like you could just

790
00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:26.440
hear the volumes of air moving and the length of

791
00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:28.400
time that it took for the air to go in

792
00:58:28.440 --> 00:58:31.639
and out of this animal's lungs, and it was close.

793
00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:34.320
He was able to go back and track how close

794
00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:37.760
the animal was to him, and it was actually rather close.

795
00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:40.400
He was just a matter of just a few yards away.

796
00:58:40.719 --> 00:58:45.079
Where this animal had come down the ridgeline. It is

797
00:58:49.239 --> 00:58:58.119
fifty fifty angle maybe fifty degree angle the mountain behind

798
00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:01.639
the cabin, and these animals can move on this rocky

799
00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:08.079
surface silently and they creep in and you do not

800
00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:11.679
know that they are there. But it had come down

801
00:59:12.039 --> 00:59:14.639
and with just a few feet of him on two

802
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:19.119
different occasions, and he could hear the thing breathing. One

803
00:59:19.119 --> 00:59:23.920
of the most dynamic, though, was one of our team

804
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:29.559
members who was in position in his side and one

805
00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:32.960
of the animals he had he had used to thermal

806
00:59:33.400 --> 00:59:36.599
and didn't see anything, and we think that it was

807
00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:39.800
light from the thermal. As he pulled the thermo away,

808
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:45.119
that kind of kind of lit him up, and something

809
00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:49.440
from up the mountain charged him, came running down the

810
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:56.880
mountain and continued to jump, moving from side to side

811
00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:04.320
in several several spots before it finally retreated. He came

812
01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:08.480
down the mountain visibly, and this guy is as stoic

813
01:00:08.519 --> 01:00:12.840
a stoic comes. He's as level as they get. And

814
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:18.119
we did a quick interview of his encounter, what happened,

815
01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:21.920
and then to kind of catch everything and they went

816
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:24.920
back up the mountain the next day. Where he was sitting,

817
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:30.199
there was a small sapling that had been shredded. He

818
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:33.440
didn't do it, but there's a sapling that had been shredded,

819
01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:37.360
and there were imprints in the ground, the scuff marks

820
01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:39.719
in the ground where they could see. He thought that

821
01:00:39.800 --> 01:00:43.360
the animal was jumping maybe five feet, and the distance

822
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:47.480
was much greater than that. It was significantly greater than that.

823
01:00:47.800 --> 01:00:49.800
I think it was somewhere between eight and ten feet

824
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:53.280
that the animal was jumping. The spots that it was jumping,

825
01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:58.599
and in one location there were finger divots in the ground,

826
01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:03.079
in the soil, and he put his hand down and

827
01:01:03.199 --> 01:01:07.840
his fingertips were just touching where the finger marks were

828
01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:10.519
going in. He couldn't reach where the finger marks were

829
01:01:10.519 --> 01:01:13.239
going into the ground, but it was all five and

830
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:18.280
it just it wasn't deep enough to cast. But the imprint,

831
01:01:18.360 --> 01:01:23.239
the handprint was there, but it was He's six six' one,

832
01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:27.840
He's a good sized guy, and his hand could not

833
01:01:28.599 --> 01:01:31.559
his full hand could not reach as far as where

834
01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:35.639
the finger holes went in. So that was probably the

835
01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:41.000
most dynamic thing that happened to be bluff charged and

836
01:01:41.079 --> 01:01:45.800
come down that mountain and stop clean pants. I don't

837
01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:50.559
know how many people have done that. We had rocks

838
01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:56.880
thrown at us. Weird things happening, Like I rated you

839
01:01:56.960 --> 01:01:59.800
to the guys, I'm like, were you guys? Were you

840
01:02:00.199 --> 01:02:02.239
up and like midnight and they're like, no, we were.

841
01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:05.840
We were out by nine, not by nine o'clock. I

842
01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:09.400
heard the only way I could describe it is orc

843
01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:14.400
laughter from like the Orcs, from like Lord of the Rings.

844
01:02:15.079 --> 01:02:18.840
It was like that. I heard orc laughter in the

845
01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:22.039
at like twelve twelve thirty at night, and like, what

846
01:02:22.119 --> 01:02:25.039
are the guys doing up this late? And they're a

847
01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:28.719
good distance away because I could hear it echoing. It

848
01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:31.719
was so loud, I could hear echoing. But that's the

849
01:02:31.719 --> 01:02:36.599
best way I could describe it. And then I heard Samurai.

850
01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:41.480
Speech that that that operational week as well, where I

851
01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:44.000
thought it was somebody talking in their sleep, and it

852
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:47.480
turned out that it wasn't them talking in their sleep.

853
01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:53.400
It was then there was something enunciating, but it wasn't

854
01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:57.199
the person that I thought it was. We had a

855
01:02:57.440 --> 01:03:01.559
number of things happen. The most for me personally, I

856
01:03:01.559 --> 01:03:06.559
think the the I don't want to call it scary,

857
01:03:06.719 --> 01:03:11.440
but I had gone to the latrine. The latrine is

858
01:03:11.800 --> 01:03:18.400
a short walk away from the cabin, maybe twenty five

859
01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:21.719
thirty yards away from the cabin. At seven o'clock in

860
01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:23.920
the morning, no one else is up, and this was

861
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:29.239
after a very active night where there was quite a

862
01:03:29.239 --> 01:03:32.079
bit of we heard quite a bit of movement. We

863
01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:34.840
heard the stamp. That was the night that I heard

864
01:03:34.840 --> 01:03:38.559
the Samurai speech, and seven o'clock in the morning and

865
01:03:39.559 --> 01:03:44.360
I go down to latrine. I hear nothing, and open

866
01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:51.119
theatree door, come out, lock the latrine door, and as

867
01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:56.840
I'm walking back toward the cabin to my right up

868
01:03:56.880 --> 01:04:01.000
the mountain. And this is only probably maybe it's maybe

869
01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:06.760
thirty feet away that the valley, the floor of this

870
01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:11.679
where the site is, where the cabin is located, the

871
01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:15.519
flat area, it's only like twenty thirty feet away. And

872
01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:22.039
then the mountain goes straight up. There is something massive

873
01:04:22.639 --> 01:04:26.960
busting up the mountain and it cleared in four big,

874
01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:32.199
huge pushes, just one, two, three four. It probably pushed

875
01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:36.760
up the height of about a three story building. It

876
01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:39.719
just bo bo bo boom, and it was gone. And

877
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:44.440
the path that it cleared of brush was four feet

878
01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:48.119
bid four five feet wide. It was massive. The foliage

879
01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:54.000
there is so thick with greenbriar and other brush. I

880
01:04:54.079 --> 01:04:58.440
couldn't see what was moving. But this animal was sitting

881
01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:02.320
at the base of the mountain twenty twenty five feet

882
01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:09.679
away from me, and I'm going, okay, this just happened.

883
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:16.480
That is why you make sure that you are safety

884
01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:21.400
focused and you are carrying something to protect yourself with,

885
01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:25.239
and you don't go anywhere along. People can do whatever

886
01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:30.239
they want, but for safety, don't go anywhere alone. And

887
01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:33.400
I yeah, Shortly after that, I was very grateful that

888
01:05:34.039 --> 01:05:37.639
someone else was awake and moving around and again telling

889
01:05:37.679 --> 01:05:40.239
me about their encounter for the night, which was also

890
01:05:40.360 --> 01:05:45.400
quite exciting. So that was probably the most exciting thing

891
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:48.679
that happened to me that particular week. But all of

892
01:05:48.679 --> 01:05:54.719
this is happening right in the same area. It's right

893
01:05:55.320 --> 01:06:03.760
behind the cabin and at the location where we operate,

894
01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:11.320
it's in the same general area. The animals are coming

895
01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:15.719
in because it's part of their home range and they

896
01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:19.360
are I don't necessarily think that they are coming to

897
01:06:19.400 --> 01:06:22.400
see what we're up to. I think that we happen

898
01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:25.639
to be close to a resource that they find valuable,

899
01:06:26.239 --> 01:06:30.920
and while they're there, they're wanting to know what we're

900
01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:34.239
up to, and they find us curious. So when we

901
01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:38.800
turn the lights off and maybe let the fire go out,

902
01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:42.199
they get curious, Hey where'd you go? And they'll start

903
01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:44.320
theiring rocks that sort of thing.

904
01:06:46.199 --> 01:06:51.280
Okay, yeah, my goodness. So some really intense stuff is

905
01:06:51.320 --> 01:06:55.360
still happening to the organization, which is great to hear

906
01:06:55.400 --> 01:07:00.159
that there's still activity. Someone is probably a need to

907
01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:04.679
follow up so and you can just it can just

908
01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:08.679
be a short answer the So the undergarment that you

909
01:07:08.800 --> 01:07:11.880
hung up, did that disappear or was it still there

910
01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:12.480
the next day?

911
01:07:12.599 --> 01:07:16.039
No? No, that was still there was actually inside the cabin.

912
01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:20.119
Because I was there with the guys, I didn't want to.

913
01:07:20.599 --> 01:07:22.320
I told them, I said, you know, you guys don't

914
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:24.719
bother me, so don't let you bother you. However, I

915
01:07:24.840 --> 01:07:27.679
was not going to hang it outside the cabin. It

916
01:07:27.760 --> 01:07:30.039
was it was still inside the cabin. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

917
01:07:30.039 --> 01:07:32.440
So I went home with those. Yeah, I went home with.

918
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:38.920
Those good good. Have there been times in the last

919
01:07:38.920 --> 01:07:43.880
five years where individuals have had actual sightings of what

920
01:07:44.039 --> 01:07:44.960
ape in that area?

921
01:07:45.320 --> 01:07:52.960
Absolutely, yes, absolutely, we have had the since the since

922
01:07:53.960 --> 01:07:56.400
Mike wrote his book, there have been a number of

923
01:07:56.440 --> 01:08:05.159
incidents where people have had sightings. There are there are

924
01:08:05.800 --> 01:08:15.000
oh gosh, people who have seen full on bipedal apes

925
01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:19.199
walking across the trail in front of them. There have

926
01:08:19.239 --> 01:08:28.760
been sightings of cinnamon colored ape, a sighting of one

927
01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:36.039
that is the color of the like an old buck.

928
01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:41.199
I saw what I believe to be an ape. It

929
01:08:41.319 --> 01:08:43.680
was a very brief siding. It was a quadri petal,

930
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:50.319
but it certainly was not a deer, and it was

931
01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:53.279
not a bear. It didn't move or behave like that.

932
01:08:54.079 --> 01:08:58.560
And the back end of this animal was so broad

933
01:08:58.920 --> 01:09:02.560
that it doesn't fit clock tia for anything else, but

934
01:09:02.640 --> 01:09:06.600
it was the color of an old buck, not really brown,

935
01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:10.039
not really tan, really really dark tan, somewhere in between.

936
01:09:11.239 --> 01:09:17.119
There have been sightings of smaller not kind of a

937
01:09:17.199 --> 01:09:24.000
juvenile black, very Usually the smaller ones are considered to

938
01:09:24.039 --> 01:09:28.720
be Usually they're they're identified as being black, the smaller ones.

939
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:34.680
Last year, I believe it was that one of our

940
01:09:34.720 --> 01:09:39.199
investigators saw the animal was hanging from a tree limb

941
01:09:39.319 --> 01:09:42.640
and then dropped to the ground and that one was

942
01:09:43.119 --> 01:09:45.880
He described that one as being jet black, and then

943
01:09:46.439 --> 01:09:50.279
kind of, you know, it took off. We've had a

944
01:09:50.359 --> 01:09:56.600
number of visuals in the last five years, and in

945
01:09:56.640 --> 01:10:01.000
the last two or three years in particular, we have

946
01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:06.880
been It appears that we haven't been as active because

947
01:10:06.920 --> 01:10:14.119
we haven't been we haven't been as present on social media,

948
01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:19.239
but we have still been very active. We're a volunteer

949
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:23.880
organization and we need volunteers to be able to do

950
01:10:23.960 --> 01:10:26.960
these things right. And if we don't have someone who's

951
01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:30.720
available to do those things, then then the podcasts don't

952
01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:35.960
get done or the social media posts don't get done.

953
01:10:36.239 --> 01:10:40.319
But we do still have members who are dedicated, and

954
01:10:40.600 --> 01:10:42.520
we do still have folks that are boots on the

955
01:10:42.560 --> 01:10:45.760
ground every single year and as a result, we are

956
01:10:46.159 --> 01:10:51.119
having those encounters which do include visuals, and that's been

957
01:10:52.279 --> 01:10:55.239
for the last three years, We've last five years, I'm sure,

958
01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:58.359
but definitely for the last three years we've consistently had

959
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:05.000
in weeks where there have been a number of sightings.

960
01:11:06.840 --> 01:11:09.520
Well, that's fantastic. Do you feel like there've been any

961
01:11:09.560 --> 01:11:14.079
substantial photo or video evidence that's been captured through those

962
01:11:14.239 --> 01:11:15.520
visual encounters?

963
01:11:16.880 --> 01:11:24.720
Video evidence not that we have seen. We had we've

964
01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:28.479
had some thermal evidence that we are very carefully analyzing.

965
01:11:29.319 --> 01:11:34.600
We are not ready to release that thermal evidence yet.

966
01:11:35.359 --> 01:11:41.760
It is very compelling that came from the asset team.

967
01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:45.840
It is compelling. It is disturbing if you if you

968
01:11:46.039 --> 01:11:51.439
see it, but it is as with anything kind of

969
01:11:51.439 --> 01:11:53.520
a neat blot. If you look at it, you're gonna

970
01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:55.399
different people look at it. Different people are gonna tell

971
01:11:55.399 --> 01:12:01.720
you different things. So we're still analyzing it to determine

972
01:12:02.039 --> 01:12:05.439
how whether or not, you know, we're ready to release that.

973
01:12:05.640 --> 01:12:08.800
We're very conservative. We don't want to put something out

974
01:12:08.840 --> 01:12:14.359
and say this is what we think it is. We're

975
01:12:14.399 --> 01:12:16.119
not going to put something out and say, yeah, this

976
01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:19.880
is one hundred percent definitive. This is evidence of This

977
01:12:19.920 --> 01:12:24.119
is video, thermal video over what a We want to

978
01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:27.920
analyze it and we want to be conservative about it.

979
01:12:29.439 --> 01:12:32.319
We did get We do have a member who had

980
01:12:32.600 --> 01:12:37.960
some photographs through through foliage so difficult. Gosh, it's hard

981
01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:42.039
to describe. It is so difficult to get video or

982
01:12:42.119 --> 01:12:49.960
photographs because the Washton Mountains are so dense. People told

983
01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:54.239
we'll just get drones in there. How you can't fly

984
01:12:54.399 --> 01:12:57.520
them under the foliage. It's too thick, and you can't

985
01:12:57.560 --> 01:13:00.760
see anything through the top of foliage because is too thick.

986
01:13:01.399 --> 01:13:05.399
But they're worse than photographs that were taken that you

987
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:11.000
can see it. It looks, it's very compelling. It doesn't

988
01:13:11.039 --> 01:13:14.479
have the shape of a bear, but it does have

989
01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:21.680
a dark charcoal to black coat, and it has the

990
01:13:22.199 --> 01:13:26.560
it has the shape of an animal of a bikekeetle,

991
01:13:27.279 --> 01:13:33.279
So we it compelling. They're interesting. The photographs are interesting,

992
01:13:33.880 --> 01:13:36.920
but they're not They're not to the point where we're

993
01:13:36.960 --> 01:13:39.520
going to put them out and say, hey, world, we

994
01:13:39.640 --> 01:13:43.000
have definitive evidence because they're not quite there. As I

995
01:13:43.079 --> 01:13:46.720
mentioned earlier, there are a lot of photographs that come

996
01:13:46.760 --> 01:13:50.600
out looking like a blob squatch. If it's not equal

997
01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:53.520
to or better than the Patterson Gimlin film. We really

998
01:13:53.560 --> 01:13:55.560
don't have anything that moves the needle.

999
01:13:57.720 --> 01:14:00.880
Sure you might not be able to answer this, but

1000
01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:03.560
how can a thermal image be disturbing?

1001
01:14:07.199 --> 01:14:13.520
Depending on who you ask and depending on what they see.

1002
01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:17.720
When I looked at the thermal video, I put it

1003
01:14:17.800 --> 01:14:24.560
up on my big screen TV, it's HD. What I

1004
01:14:24.640 --> 01:14:35.560
saw was an animal that was creeping very slowly forward

1005
01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:40.479
at a very very controlled pace, and at one point

1006
01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:45.079
you can see the animal's bottom lip drop down. I

1007
01:14:45.399 --> 01:14:53.239
let me rephrase that. I in my interpretation, I see

1008
01:14:53.279 --> 01:14:57.239
the animal's bottom lip open, and I can see teeth,

1009
01:14:58.239 --> 01:15:00.560
and it looks like the It looks like the animals

1010
01:15:00.600 --> 01:15:04.439
opening and closing its mouth two or three times goods.

1011
01:15:04.920 --> 01:15:09.520
And then and then it's kind of creeping forward this way,

1012
01:15:09.760 --> 01:15:12.840
and it moves its mouth, and then it kind of

1013
01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:16.640
drifts back into its previous position and then moves forward

1014
01:15:16.840 --> 01:15:21.720
outside the range of the thermal behind some foliage. So

1015
01:15:23.159 --> 01:15:28.840
it's disturbing. At the clarity, you can see fingers. I

1016
01:15:28.880 --> 01:15:33.199
can see fingers in the thermal, and I could see

1017
01:15:33.239 --> 01:15:39.199
the bottom lip, which was I can't even do what

1018
01:15:39.239 --> 01:15:43.680
the bottom lip was doing it was long, the bottom

1019
01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:49.159
lip dipped forward more than what humans can typically do,

1020
01:15:49.800 --> 01:15:55.760
and then doing so, I could see teeth in the thermal,

1021
01:15:56.239 --> 01:16:00.239
and that was what I found disturbing. Yeah, and that

1022
01:16:00.439 --> 01:16:05.079
was what I saw in the thermal. What I saw.

1023
01:16:06.920 --> 01:16:13.640
The clarity of that I found disserving. So we're not there.

1024
01:16:13.960 --> 01:16:16.319
Yeah, So you guys must have some really good equipment.

1025
01:16:16.399 --> 01:16:22.560
Then the individual who took that thermal had a nice

1026
01:16:22.640 --> 01:16:28.199
high end thermal. That's some the organization has some equipment.

1027
01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:31.359
Individuals choose to bring in their own equipment. I go

1028
01:16:31.479 --> 01:16:35.199
in with my own. This individual, I believe was using

1029
01:16:35.239 --> 01:16:38.159
his own equipment, which was higher end equipment as well,

1030
01:16:38.760 --> 01:16:44.079
and his equipment was able to capture and it was.

1031
01:16:44.279 --> 01:16:49.119
It was Again, everyone who looks at it has a

1032
01:16:49.119 --> 01:16:52.439
slightly different interpretation, and that's why the organization isn't willing

1033
01:16:52.439 --> 01:16:58.039
to release it or say definitively what it was. My

1034
01:16:58.239 --> 01:17:03.119
interpretation of what I saw, it looks to me as

1035
01:17:03.159 --> 01:17:08.640
if there is an animal that is opening and closing

1036
01:17:08.680 --> 01:17:13.119
its mouth and I can see teeth. So yes, from

1037
01:17:13.159 --> 01:17:17.439
from thermal that he took, it's he has he has

1038
01:17:17.600 --> 01:17:19.039
a nice equipment.

1039
01:17:19.159 --> 01:17:25.319
Yes, that is that is fantastic who knows. Hopefully someday

1040
01:17:25.359 --> 01:17:27.479
that might be released. But I totally get it. I

1041
01:17:27.520 --> 01:17:30.439
know different organizations have things that they hold on to

1042
01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:33.800
for years, and that is you know, that's their prerogative,

1043
01:17:33.840 --> 01:17:37.640
and that's all right. I know we're getting close to

1044
01:17:37.640 --> 01:17:40.640
the end of our time today, but maybe time for

1045
01:17:40.960 --> 01:17:43.760
or one or two more questions. Has there been a

1046
01:17:43.800 --> 01:17:48.520
time in the last five years where things have gone

1047
01:17:48.560 --> 01:17:51.600
sideways or almost gone sideways or has it been pretty

1048
01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:53.520
well under control.

1049
01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:57.199
I don't believe that there's been time. To my knowledge,

1050
01:17:57.199 --> 01:18:01.600
there hasn't been times where things have gone sideways. They're there,

1051
01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:08.840
for example, when the individuals bluff charged. You could consider

1052
01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:15.920
that going sideways. Uh. I think that anytime you're in

1053
01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:18.520
the woods, anything could go sideways.

1054
01:18:18.760 --> 01:18:18.880
Uh.

1055
01:18:19.399 --> 01:18:23.000
You could have an individual fall and get injured or snake.

1056
01:18:23.079 --> 01:18:26.640
But there there are a number of things that could

1057
01:18:26.680 --> 01:18:29.479
go wrong when you're in this environment and medical help

1058
01:18:30.079 --> 01:18:33.000
is three hours away by the time you get out,

1059
01:18:33.039 --> 01:18:36.039
because they're not going to come in for you. But

1060
01:18:36.960 --> 01:18:41.479
to my to my knowledge, we have not had anything

1061
01:18:42.079 --> 01:18:45.680
where where we've had either with the apes or or not,

1062
01:18:46.359 --> 01:18:51.840
where we've had anything go sideways. The teams are generally

1063
01:18:52.560 --> 01:18:58.680
so well disciplined and they are so cohesive that we've

1064
01:18:59.279 --> 01:19:03.800
we've been able to work through issues that have come up.

1065
01:19:03.840 --> 01:19:06.239
We have had team members who have had to leave

1066
01:19:06.319 --> 01:19:09.600
the area and go see medical help, but they were

1067
01:19:09.640 --> 01:19:11.760
able to do so either on their own or with

1068
01:19:11.840 --> 01:19:14.279
the assistance of like one person to drive them out,

1069
01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:17.199
but not not in the situation that was with such

1070
01:19:17.239 --> 01:19:21.039
an emergent situation where like you say, go sideways. The

1071
01:19:21.720 --> 01:19:27.000
organization has has been very fortunate that we've we've been

1072
01:19:27.039 --> 01:19:31.159
able to condict continue to conduct operations in a way

1073
01:19:31.159 --> 01:19:33.760
that we've we've remained safe.

1074
01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:39.880
Yeah, that's awesome. I mean path could go totally different.

1075
01:19:40.680 --> 01:19:43.640
And in the last few years, what do you feel

1076
01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:47.680
the closest an individual with the organization has come to

1077
01:19:49.199 --> 01:19:52.680
a wood ape in terms of like distance.

1078
01:19:54.560 --> 01:20:00.439
The two that I mentioned where where where the one

1079
01:20:00.439 --> 01:20:04.000
individual a goot bluff charged and the other individual had

1080
01:20:04.000 --> 01:20:07.920
that animal sitting within just I think it was within

1081
01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:11.600
five yards of his location. Literally, the animals sat down

1082
01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:17.199
within five yards of him and just sat down. I

1083
01:20:17.199 --> 01:20:20.039
don't know if you heard that pain or not, hope not.

1084
01:20:20.800 --> 01:20:24.800
The animal just sat down within about five yards of

1085
01:20:24.840 --> 01:20:31.279
his location and he could hear breathing that the animal

1086
01:20:31.359 --> 01:20:34.479
knew he was there, had to have known who was there.

1087
01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:40.920
I'm of the opinion that if you do all of

1088
01:20:40.960 --> 01:20:46.479
the you can wash your clothes and the non the

1089
01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:50.039
non smell the dead down wind, and you can douse

1090
01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:53.880
yourself and dead down wind, then you can you can

1091
01:20:54.159 --> 01:20:56.560
play all the stuff on you so you smell like

1092
01:20:56.680 --> 01:20:59.640
the outdoors. At the end of the day, we're human

1093
01:20:59.720 --> 01:21:04.159
being and we still sweat, and whenever you ate and

1094
01:21:04.840 --> 01:21:08.159
toothpaste few use, you are going to smell like a

1095
01:21:08.239 --> 01:21:10.520
human when you go in there. And I believe that

1096
01:21:10.560 --> 01:21:15.079
the animals are going to smell you. I had. I

1097
01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:17.880
was in a high location, and I was in a

1098
01:21:17.920 --> 01:21:23.439
good high location at fifty yards. The other team member

1099
01:21:23.479 --> 01:21:25.960
who put me in that spot could not see me,

1100
01:21:26.439 --> 01:21:30.399
and he knew I was there. And I was on

1101
01:21:30.520 --> 01:21:35.079
the edge of a ravine, and at about fifteen feet

1102
01:21:35.119 --> 01:21:39.720
over my head, something approached the edge of the ravine.

1103
01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:42.680
I could hear it when we walked up, and I

1104
01:21:42.680 --> 01:21:50.079
could hear it sniffing and growling as it was going,

1105
01:21:50.680 --> 01:21:54.640
growling and sniffing the air. It could smell me, but

1106
01:21:54.720 --> 01:22:02.119
it couldn't see me. That was fine, That was that's

1107
01:22:02.159 --> 01:22:06.600
a moment when you realize what you're going to do

1108
01:22:06.680 --> 01:22:09.720
if you're in that situation, When you're in that situation,

1109
01:22:10.079 --> 01:22:14.479
you realize what you're going to do. They know you're there.

1110
01:22:15.520 --> 01:22:19.119
It doesn't matter what you do. I believe they know

1111
01:22:19.239 --> 01:22:21.960
you're there. And I believe that they knew that this

1112
01:22:22.039 --> 01:22:27.479
investigator was sitting very close to him, and the animal

1113
01:22:27.520 --> 01:22:31.119
didn't care. It just sat there and then it moved on.

1114
01:22:32.159 --> 01:22:38.960
So I technically I believe that the animal that approached

1115
01:22:39.000 --> 01:22:42.479
me was an ape, and that animal would literally been

1116
01:22:42.479 --> 01:22:46.800
about fifteen feet away from me. The animal that approached

1117
01:22:46.840 --> 01:22:49.560
the other team member would have been about five yards

1118
01:22:49.600 --> 01:22:53.079
away from him if that, and the animal that bluff

1119
01:22:53.159 --> 01:22:57.600
charged the other team member was probably as close as that,

1120
01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:03.239
within three to five yards as well. So the animals,

1121
01:23:03.439 --> 01:23:06.560
the animals that get closed, they don't have a lot

1122
01:23:06.600 --> 01:23:10.560
to be afraid of as long as they can maintain cover.

1123
01:23:11.800 --> 01:23:14.239
They don't have a lot to be afraid of from us.

1124
01:23:15.479 --> 01:23:19.720
But they do maintain they do stay out of site

1125
01:23:20.039 --> 01:23:23.279
from us because I believe they know, I mean, they

1126
01:23:23.319 --> 01:23:26.279
see if we can see them, they're they'rey more danger.

1127
01:23:28.279 --> 01:23:29.840
Because because at the end of the day, I mean,

1128
01:23:29.880 --> 01:23:35.399
you're looking at what what you have estimated to be

1129
01:23:35.479 --> 01:23:37.760
in there. I mean much bigger than the size of

1130
01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:38.720
like a mountain gorilla.

1131
01:23:38.880 --> 01:23:44.600
Correct, absolutely at least at least twice the size of

1132
01:23:44.600 --> 01:23:48.159
a mountain gorilla. The ones that I have seen, the

1133
01:23:48.600 --> 01:23:50.840
one that I saw when it was four, had to

1134
01:23:50.840 --> 01:23:53.039
be at least seven foot talk because it looked down

1135
01:23:53.079 --> 01:23:59.560
on me. The animal that I saw, I've seen two

1136
01:23:59.600 --> 01:24:04.359
in the swamp, and that one had to be at

1137
01:24:04.479 --> 01:24:09.359
least seven foot tall, seven and a half. And they are,

1138
01:24:10.920 --> 01:24:16.000
they are broad. So the animal that I saw quadre peatally,

1139
01:24:18.239 --> 01:24:21.279
if that was one eight that's eighteen inches, and that

1140
01:24:21.399 --> 01:24:27.680
was one glute, the three foot three foot wide back end,

1141
01:24:28.439 --> 01:24:32.359
all right, and and it was at least five feet

1142
01:24:32.399 --> 01:24:36.760
off the ground, that's the rump. If the rump, the

1143
01:24:36.800 --> 01:24:39.079
top of the rump was five feet off the ground

1144
01:24:39.760 --> 01:24:43.119
and that animal stood up, then make the estimate of

1145
01:24:43.119 --> 01:24:44.760
how tall that animal would have been.

1146
01:24:48.159 --> 01:24:51.239
Theirs incredible. They're large, incredible.

1147
01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:57.079
They're very large animals, and they can move with incredible

1148
01:24:57.119 --> 01:25:03.920
speed and agility and absolutely silently when they wish, And

1149
01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:08.319
that is that is what astonishes me. That they can

1150
01:25:08.439 --> 01:25:14.800
creep in so silently, taking advantage of the wind or

1151
01:25:15.199 --> 01:25:18.319
I mean all pre animal a predatory animals will do that.

1152
01:25:18.359 --> 01:25:24.039
They'll take advantage of wind and another noise to move

1153
01:25:24.640 --> 01:25:27.920
and then they'll wait. They're very patient, they'll just wait

1154
01:25:29.319 --> 01:25:36.119
so and they they they're very smart. They're very very smart.

1155
01:25:37.840 --> 01:25:44.680
They're incredible, they are. There are a lot of animals

1156
01:25:44.680 --> 01:25:49.000
that people will obsess over for various and centric reasons.

1157
01:25:50.399 --> 01:25:54.079
The reason that I obsess over this animal is because

1158
01:25:54.119 --> 01:25:59.560
of the personal encounters that I've had, but also because

1159
01:26:00.199 --> 01:26:09.439
they are just fascinating their behaviors. We don't know what

1160
01:26:10.439 --> 01:26:14.239
they mean when they vocalize, We don't know why they

1161
01:26:15.079 --> 01:26:18.720
make We don't even truly know how they're making sounds.

1162
01:26:18.800 --> 01:26:24.199
If they're knocking on trees, is it are they really

1163
01:26:24.279 --> 01:26:29.520
hitting trees with sticks? We may be looking at evidence

1164
01:26:29.720 --> 01:26:35.039
that indicates that they chimpanzees. They've documented chimpanzees or collecting

1165
01:26:35.159 --> 01:26:40.680
rocks by trees, and we have found evidence that appears

1166
01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:43.039
that rocks have been collected by trees. Now have the

1167
01:26:43.119 --> 01:26:47.640
apes done that or have humans done that? We're looking

1168
01:26:47.680 --> 01:26:51.600
into that. That is something that we were curved in

1169
01:26:51.720 --> 01:26:55.840
Area X. So we don't have documentation as the apes

1170
01:26:55.880 --> 01:26:59.560
are doing that, but we do have documentation that we

1171
01:26:59.600 --> 01:27:03.640
do have evidence. We're looking at certain types of trees

1172
01:27:04.239 --> 01:27:07.800
that have marks on them, scar marks on them that

1173
01:27:07.920 --> 01:27:10.720
indicate that that may be the type of tree that

1174
01:27:11.079 --> 01:27:14.760
where the knocks are coming from. We are looking at

1175
01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:18.039
where those rocks are being collected and there is a

1176
01:27:18.079 --> 01:27:22.520
correlation between the rocks being collected at these certain types

1177
01:27:22.560 --> 01:27:26.039
of trees. Is that a one off or a two

1178
01:27:26.119 --> 01:27:30.880
off or is there enough data there we're looking into that.

1179
01:27:31.399 --> 01:27:35.399
We don't know exactly, but we're looking into that. And

1180
01:27:35.439 --> 01:27:41.920
that's the type of stuff that we're trying to collect

1181
01:27:41.960 --> 01:27:45.039
data for. That's the type of science that we're trying

1182
01:27:45.119 --> 01:27:49.600
to make sense of that we're trying to apply and

1183
01:27:49.640 --> 01:27:51.199
make sense of. It's a lot.

1184
01:27:52.920 --> 01:27:56.640
Really exciting. This is all very exciting to hear that

1185
01:27:56.680 --> 01:28:00.520
stuff like this is still happening where the organization. And

1186
01:28:00.960 --> 01:28:04.720
thank you so much for coming on, Tammy Grimes, And

1187
01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:10.039
do you mind taking a few minutes and just sharing

1188
01:28:10.079 --> 01:28:12.520
how people can keep up to date with an AWAC,

1189
01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:19.239
anything that you would want listeners to know about about

1190
01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:23.840
different things that they can look into or keep up

1191
01:28:23.840 --> 01:28:26.319
to date with or even try to become a member

1192
01:28:26.359 --> 01:28:27.279
of the NAWAC.

1193
01:28:27.920 --> 01:28:32.880
Sure absolutely. We are working on the podcast. We do

1194
01:28:32.960 --> 01:28:36.119
have a team who is working on the podcast. It's

1195
01:28:36.199 --> 01:28:38.279
not the frequency that it had been in the past,

1196
01:28:38.319 --> 01:28:40.960
but we are working on the podcast, so keep tuned

1197
01:28:41.039 --> 01:28:46.119
to the apes. Among this podcast that's available directly off

1198
01:28:46.159 --> 01:28:49.399
of the NAWC website, which is what a dot org.

1199
01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:53.560
You can add as it there and I believe that

1200
01:28:53.560 --> 01:28:57.239
you could pick it up on whatever podcast application that

1201
01:28:57.319 --> 01:29:02.800
you use. We are also working on getting our Facebook

1202
01:29:03.479 --> 01:29:07.319
more current, so it's not it's not quite there yet,

1203
01:29:07.359 --> 01:29:11.560
but we are working on getting our Facebook account more active,

1204
01:29:11.760 --> 01:29:15.840
so keep an eye on that. We are working on

1205
01:29:16.159 --> 01:29:20.000
some other projects as well that we hope to have

1206
01:29:20.279 --> 01:29:23.039
it They're not short term. These are more long term.

1207
01:29:23.359 --> 01:29:27.800
We're working on another washtile monograph, hoping to have something

1208
01:29:27.880 --> 01:29:30.880
out assume that's going to be several months, So that's

1209
01:29:31.359 --> 01:29:34.199
long term research that needs to be done based on

1210
01:29:34.800 --> 01:29:39.119
the last five years of activity that we've had and

1211
01:29:39.560 --> 01:29:44.079
kind of focusing more on behavioral what we've seen the

1212
01:29:44.119 --> 01:29:49.960
animals doing behaviorally, and outside of outside of those things,

1213
01:29:50.760 --> 01:29:54.680
we're working on some other things to try and get

1214
01:29:55.199 --> 01:29:59.520
more engagement with the community because we know that the

1215
01:29:59.560 --> 01:30:03.439
work we're doing is important and we want our we

1216
01:30:03.479 --> 01:30:05.880
want the community at March to know more about what

1217
01:30:05.920 --> 01:30:08.800
we're doing, and we haven't been letting our little light shine.

1218
01:30:09.399 --> 01:30:12.119
We really need to do a better job of letting

1219
01:30:12.119 --> 01:30:16.079
our little light shine. If anyone is interested in becoming

1220
01:30:16.119 --> 01:30:21.840
a member, it is same same website dot org. You

1221
01:30:21.920 --> 01:30:25.239
can follow the links on the website and go to

1222
01:30:25.479 --> 01:30:29.800
the application fill out an application there. Also, if anyone

1223
01:30:29.840 --> 01:30:32.520
is interested in just supporting what we do, if you

1224
01:30:32.560 --> 01:30:35.760
don't necessarily want to be a member and be involved

1225
01:30:35.760 --> 01:30:40.680
with the investigative process, but that you would like to

1226
01:30:40.760 --> 01:30:45.560
participate in the act in supporting our research, there's also

1227
01:30:46.000 --> 01:30:48.039
place there that you can fill out a form for

1228
01:30:48.159 --> 01:30:52.359
donation and we would put that toward equipment. We would

1229
01:30:52.359 --> 01:30:57.000
put that toward funding things like our initiative for e

1230
01:30:57.159 --> 01:31:00.960
DNA research that that we're going to be working on

1231
01:31:01.039 --> 01:31:05.920
this coming operational year. So if you are interested in

1232
01:31:06.399 --> 01:31:10.640
helping see this move to fruition, that would be a

1233
01:31:10.640 --> 01:31:12.640
good way to support the organization.

1234
01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:21.239
That is awesome, So listeners, I'll have links in the

1235
01:31:21.279 --> 01:31:24.279
show notes about all that good stuff. But thank you

1236
01:31:24.319 --> 01:31:27.000
again Tammy for coming on the show, and a special

1237
01:31:27.039 --> 01:31:31.840
thank to, special thanks to the Nawac for allowing myself

1238
01:31:31.840 --> 01:31:36.079
to talk to yourself today and Rick a few episodes

1239
01:31:36.159 --> 01:31:40.399
ago as always happy to hear about what is going

1240
01:31:40.399 --> 01:31:44.199
on and to talk to individuals within the organization. But

1241
01:31:44.239 --> 01:31:44.960
thank you so much.

1242
01:31:45.279 --> 01:31:47.560
It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

1243
01:31:50.640 --> 01:31:53.640
Have you ever heard all the accounts of bigfoot activity

1244
01:31:53.720 --> 01:31:56.920
around Oakridge, Oregon? And you think to yourself, Man, I

1245
01:31:56.920 --> 01:31:59.720
would love to get out in those woods and experience

1246
01:31:59.760 --> 01:32:05.159
it myself. Well, guess what this year you can. If

1247
01:32:05.159 --> 01:32:09.000
this is interesting to you, stay tuned because it's pretty cool.

1248
01:32:09.359 --> 01:32:13.880
Sasquatch Summer Fest is coming up July tenth through the eleventh,

1249
01:32:14.119 --> 01:32:17.760
twenty twenty six. It's gonna be even better than the

1250
01:32:17.800 --> 01:32:21.720
previous year's reason number one, I'll be one of the speakers.

1251
01:32:22.239 --> 01:32:27.800
It's gonna be wild. I'll probably I'll say this. There

1252
01:32:27.840 --> 01:32:31.760
may be stuff you haven't heard anywhere else, because let's

1253
01:32:31.800 --> 01:32:36.399
just say sometimes it's well, you just gotta be there.

1254
01:32:36.720 --> 01:32:39.119
We'll leave at that. More about looking for Bigfoot in

1255
01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:42.279
the Oakridge Woods. Now check this out. You may know

1256
01:32:43.079 --> 01:32:48.319
Jason Kenzie from his documentary series Searching for Sasquatch. Well,

1257
01:32:48.359 --> 01:32:52.000
this year you can not only go to the festival,

1258
01:32:52.399 --> 01:33:00.319
but you can also sign up for a track deep

1259
01:33:00.319 --> 01:33:03.720
in the Wild forest outside of Oakridge with Jason Kenzie

1260
01:33:04.600 --> 01:33:08.239
to the Bigfoot Spots to look for Bigfoot. There's only

1261
01:33:08.279 --> 01:33:12.439
eight spots to sign up for this, and yes, this

1262
01:33:12.479 --> 01:33:15.399
will also be filmed for the next chapter in his

1263
01:33:15.479 --> 01:33:18.840
documentary series, which is Searching for Sasquatch. This is a

1264
01:33:18.840 --> 01:33:21.319
once in a lifetime deal. It's just trust it's going

1265
01:33:21.399 --> 01:33:26.199
to be a wild, wild experience. To get a ticket,

1266
01:33:26.560 --> 01:33:30.560
head on over to Sasquatch Summerfest dot com and listeners

1267
01:33:30.560 --> 01:33:36.079
can use the code b sp like Bigfoot Society podcast

1268
01:33:36.640 --> 01:33:38.680
in order to get a two day pass for the

1269
01:33:38.720 --> 01:33:42.920
price of a one day pass. So thanks to Priscilla

1270
01:33:43.199 --> 01:33:47.960
for giving me that code so that you guys can

1271
01:33:49.920 --> 01:33:53.000
can get a little a little help with the cost there.

1272
01:33:53.199 --> 01:33:56.880
Appreciate that, Priscilla. I hope to see you at the

1273
01:33:56.920 --> 01:34:00.359
booth in Oakridge this year. We can tell talk about

1274
01:34:00.399 --> 01:34:02.880
your encounter. Was able to talk to so many people

1275
01:34:03.000 --> 01:34:07.199
last year and the year before. It is an incredible time.

1276
01:34:07.680 --> 01:34:09.439
You're not going to want to miss it, and I'll

1277
01:34:09.439 --> 01:34:13.920
see you there. Before we wrap this episode, I want

1278
01:34:13.960 --> 01:34:17.279
to say something directly to a very specific group of listeners.

1279
01:34:17.520 --> 01:34:21.239
If you're in the military, any branch or forces, and

1280
01:34:21.319 --> 01:34:24.239
if you've seen something that no one can explain, or

1281
01:34:24.239 --> 01:34:27.319
if you're a National park ranger or forestry worker who's

1282
01:34:27.359 --> 01:34:30.199
been told to stay quiet, or if you're a pilot

1283
01:34:30.279 --> 01:34:33.800
who's seen something strange down on the ground, or if

1284
01:34:33.840 --> 01:34:37.399
you're with the FBI a federal agency, or working intelligence

1285
01:34:37.560 --> 01:34:40.560
and you've stumbled upon something you're not allowed to talk about.

1286
01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:43.800
And if you're a firefighter, paramedic, or search and rescue

1287
01:34:43.840 --> 01:34:47.760
responder who's heard screams or found tracks that didn't make sense.

1288
01:34:48.239 --> 01:34:52.079
If you're in the logging industry on a remote oil field,

1289
01:34:52.239 --> 01:34:55.279
or a trucker with government contracts and you've had something

1290
01:34:55.359 --> 01:34:58.760
happen that you've never told a soul. And if you're

1291
01:34:58.800 --> 01:35:02.239
a biologist, a while life specialist, or a field researcher

1292
01:35:02.399 --> 01:35:06.079
under contract who has found evidence you're not allowed to report.

1293
01:35:06.600 --> 01:35:09.039
If you're a pastor, a missionary, or someone on a

1294
01:35:09.079 --> 01:35:12.560
spiritual retreat and you saw something that shook your faith,

1295
01:35:13.279 --> 01:35:16.359
or if you work in the shadows, CIA, NSA, or

1296
01:35:16.439 --> 01:35:19.760
anything with clearance and you've seen what the public hasn't,

1297
01:35:21.119 --> 01:35:24.600
then I want to talk to you even if it's anonymous,

1298
01:35:26.359 --> 01:35:29.880
you can reach me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com.

1299
01:35:30.319 --> 01:35:32.760
The world needs to hear what you've been forced to

1300
01:35:32.800 --> 01:35:38.640
carry alone, and you're not alone. You've got the story,

1301
01:35:39.119 --> 01:35:42.920
We've got the mic. See you in the woods. Thank

1302
01:35:43.000 --> 01:35:45.840
you for listening to this episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast.

1303
01:35:45.960 --> 01:35:48.359
Every encounter we share reminds us that the world is

1304
01:35:48.399 --> 01:35:51.520
bigger and stranger than we think, and that the truth

1305
01:35:51.560 --> 01:35:54.399
is often hiding just beyond the tree line. If you

1306
01:35:54.520 --> 01:35:57.239
enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the

1307
01:35:57.319 --> 01:35:59.600
channel on YouTube hit the bell so you don't miss

1308
01:35:59.600 --> 01:36:02.079
the next episode, and share this with a friend who's

1309
01:36:02.119 --> 01:36:05.920
into mysteries, monsters, or the unexplained. And if you're listening

1310
01:36:05.920 --> 01:36:08.840
to us on Spotify or Apple podcast, please follow the

1311
01:36:08.880 --> 01:36:11.479
show there and leave us a five star positive review

1312
01:36:11.640 --> 01:36:15.880
because all that helps more people discover the show. And remember,

1313
01:36:15.920 --> 01:36:18.279
if you or someone you know has had a Bigfoot sighting,

1314
01:36:18.720 --> 01:36:21.239
please I'd love to hear from you, so email me

1315
01:36:21.359 --> 01:36:24.720
at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com and let's start

1316
01:36:24.720 --> 01:36:27.560
the conversation. If you haven't gotten a chance yet, check

1317
01:36:27.560 --> 01:36:31.399
out our membership community over at www dot Bigfoot Society

1318
01:36:31.439 --> 01:36:34.399
podcast dot com and that's where you can hear tomorrow's

1319
01:36:34.479 --> 01:36:38.359
episode today early in ad free and members only episodes

1320
01:36:38.399 --> 01:36:42.159
every week. Also, it's a place to connect with other

1321
01:36:42.199 --> 01:36:44.720
people that are into the Bigfoot subject as much as

1322
01:36:44.720 --> 01:36:47.439
you are. Thanks again for following along with the Bigfoot

1323
01:36:47.479 --> 01:36:50.960
Society until next time, Keep your eyes open, trust your gut,

1324
01:36:51.000 --> 01:36:53.239
and never stop asking what else might be out there?

1325
01:36:53.399 --> 01:36:54.319
And see you in the woods.