A NAWAC Researcher Shares New Encounters And Activity From Area X

0:00 You're listening to bigflet Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring you first hand encounters from people who say they've seen something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to quiet farms and crowded highways. The stories come from everywhere, and each one leaves us with more questions than answers. These are the voices of the people who've lived it. To settle in, because today you'll hear another account that just might change the way you see the woods forever. So stay with us, all right, Bigfoot Society, Welcome back to another episode. Today, We've got the privilege of talking to researcher Tammy Grimes. Tammy is another researcher and a board member of the NEAWAC, and you've heard from board member Rick just recently was able to get Tammy on the show as well, which is incredible. We're definitely going to have a discussion about things to do with Area X and research that's going on down there in southeast Oklahoma.

1:04 But you know, welcome to the show, Tammy. How are you doing today? Thank you very much for having me. I'm doing very well. Thank you. I'm glad to be here and looking forward to our discussion. Absolutely. Is there anything else that you would like the listeners know to know about yourself for context before we get going. For context? I think that one of the questions that I get quite frequently, of course, is I think everyone who does this gets a question of you what brought you to this or what my background is that would lead me to this. And I don't have the typical background I think that people think of when you think of a sasquatch researcher, would ape investigator in that I'm not.

1:51 I'm not a hunter. I don't have I don't have issue with hunting. My husband is a hunter. I firsonally don't hunt. But I don't come from that typical background. I spend a lot of time in the woods. I'm a hiker, I love camping, and I grew up doing these things. But my what led me to this is a little different, and did have an encounter and when I was very young. But I think a lot of investigators have this background of kind of this hardened a lot of a lot of background with hunting and that that type of thing, and so people they look at me.

2:34 I have an office job, and I spend most of my day in front of a computer, and I think that surprises people when they find out that this is how I spend if I'm not in the office, this is how i spend the bulk of my free time. When I'm not with my family and I'm not in the office, I'm in the woods, investigating, And I think that that is something that catches people off guard when me find out that that's how what I do with my with my great time and how it how it got here is a little little different from what most people experience. Do you mind sharing a few minutes about the encounter that you had as a younger child.

3:16 Absolutely, I would be happy to I didn't tell people for a long time because it comes with the stigma, and I've gotten to a point now where I found it's helpful for me, but it's also helpful for other people to hear about my encounter, so I'm happy to share. When I was four years old, I grew up in an area that is connected to the Green Swamp in central Florida, and I remember looking out in the window out in my bedroom window. It was one of my favorite things to do. My parents thought I was in bed asleep, but I was not, and I saw something out the side yard and I was. My window was about sixteet off the ground, so I'm at a pretty good height above the ground, and i could see there's like a utility shed for gardening tools and things, and I could see something moving over the top of the shed.

4:22 And the apex of the shed was probably about six feet high five and a half sixtet high, and I could see something moving over the top of the shed. So I remember watching it and it approached from my right hand side, and very quickly it was right in front of the window, and I was it was looking down at me. It was probably maybe ten to twelve feet away from the window, so it was actually very close. But it was massive. It was the what I refer to someone named Lufarigno as the closest. It had that body build and very muscular, very broad across the shoulders, kind of tapered at the waist. It walked with a slightly forward bent. Its arms were very long, its hands were almost touching the ground, not quite, but it stood there for quite a while and we made eye contact.

5:27 I could see where the hair started it on its face like under the eye here under the orbital long the long the length of the upper lip from the nose to the top of the lip was very, very long, and it did have slight, slight lip, not like humans do, but it did have a slight lip and a little bit longer of a not a beard, but the hair on it chin was a little bit longer than the hair that came off the rest of the jawline. The forehead was very flat, and it came up. The head came up to a point, so I had a very defined sat of a crest and no neck. I remember seeing that. It just it went from like head to shoulders, and the animals stood there and looked at me for I don't exactly know how long because I was four years old. And then it suddenly took off, and the speed at which it took off was absolutely astonishing. It startled me. I went and told my parents, there's a monster outside. It's really big. I don't know what it was.

6:51 And I know those words because my mother repeated them to me recently. She recalls me coming to them and telling them they thought it was asleep. She put me back to bed, said you're just having a bad dream, and which is what any parent would do. I unfortunately had nightmares for twenty five years from that encounter because I was trying to reconcile what my parents were, what my mother told me, there's no such thing as monsters to what I saw, and I could not put that out of my mind, could not get rid of the fact that I saw this animal. And although I kept having this recurring dream over and over, the thing that it wasn't that the animal was right in my face.

7:42 That was a scary dream. But the thing that always frightened me the most was the speed which this anama moves because I knew, at four years old, I knew that there was nothing you could do if that animal wanted to catch you. There's nothing to do to get away from it. And it wasn't until I was in the second grade there was a small book in my classroom, little classroom library on crichtids and flipping through the book and it had things like fairies and wood carvings of ware wolves and vampires and things like that. But the book only contained two photographs. One was of the Latinus monster and the other was Frame thirt fifty two from the Patterson Gimmelin film, and when I saw that, I immediately recognized that as a real animal. And then, of course in nineteen seventy seven, when the In Search of episode came out, I remember sitting in the living room floor in front of the television and I asked my mom, says show real and she said, well, I don't know, it's probably make believe. But I knew what I was looking at was the same type of animal. She looked different body shape, but I knew that it was the same animal, and I knew that animal was real. I didn't talk about it though, because there was nobody who

9:12 wanted to talk about Everyone was telling me it was just that you're just having nightmares. Put it out of your head, and kind of one of those if you focus on it, it's just going to make it worse type situations. And that's what you would expect parents to tell their children, but I did. I suffered with really, really bad nightmares for twenty five years as a result of that encounter. That is incredible and what an active area the green Swamp is. What year did this happen? Approximately, this would have been. In seventy one. The winter this would have been the winter if seventy one or seventy two. So I'll let the listeners do the math on that.

10:01 Uh. And it was at that time the term bigfoot was not common in central Florida. That was not a topic that we had really heard, the legend of Boggy Creek. I remember seeing that movie at the drive in with my parents. We all went on family night. We went to see that film, but that was after. We didn't see that until after I had had this encounter. But I also knew that what I was looking at was Hollywood costume. I could definitely tell the difference. As a child, like I knew that that was a not a real thing, but that was someone in the costume. But this was not the closest thing I'd ever heard. My grandmother referred to it. My dad's mom referred to it as a wood booker. Now she was from Arkansas, my dad my dad's family was from Arkansas. And she said, if you dwell on them, all you're going to do is is that you you draw the woodburgers to you that that's kind of the terminology, but just could use so you don't want to you don't want to draw you don't want to dwell on them, you don't want to focus on them. So, but that was the closest terminology that I had heard used. Woodbourgers, haints, haunts, those were the type of terms that were used for things that were in the woods and other than that. It was not

11:31 until the film, I think the Legend of Boggy Creek came out, that the in the Patterson Gimlin film, the episode on In Search Of When that came out, that that terminology became more familiar language in my little my little part of the world. At least, it wasn't something that was discussed in conversation when I was growing up. It just wasn't something that the kids and I talked about. It was not we didn't talk about that in school. It wasn't a term that we were familiar with until after that, really, until after that In Search Of episode came out.

12:13 Okay, and you've got more information on a website called sasquatchscience dot org about research in the green Swamp. Correct, that's correct, that's correct. It's a work in progress, but that is a website that I've launched rather recently to try to compile some of the activity, some of the research that I've been conducting. We have been there's a small group of people that I know locally of research as investigators who we are trying to keep constant scientific research going in the Brunswap and in doing so, trying to further the database on these animals, their behaviors, the locations, that sort of thing. And we've been able to put together some documentation, at least for our own use of consistency of where the animals tend to be during different seasonally, and we're trying to put together information that we can try and document from a behavioral standpoint of what the animals are doing and where they are at different times of the year within the Green Swamp.

13:40 The Green Swamp is nine hundred and thirty plus square miles of wilderness of managed Wildlife Management Area, and there's a lot of development going on around this area around the green Swamp places right through the green Swamp, so the habitat is being changed on a daily basis, and we're concerned what that impact is doing to all of the ams that live there. I conducted research years a year ago on what the impact is during hunting season in areas where there is no hunting. So it's a wildlife management area inside within the WMA that doesn't have hunting during the rest of hunting season, and what that does to wildlife, to the smaller prey species, and they're almost non existent toward the end of hunting season. I did a transit samplane study and couldn't find sign of small animals possums, raccoons, rabbits. I know that they're there, but they were very scarce, and they should have. On any other time of year, you would see a lot of tracks for possums and otters and things like that.

15:08 But during hunting season, animals are compressed into this smaller area by smaller it's eleven eleven thousand acres, And there's something going on that's compressing these animals there, and it is putting a strain on the ecosystem while this is going on, and then when hunting season ends, the animals seem to kind of just either the prey animals are coming back to that area or the predators are leaving that area, and it's allowing the prey species to come back.

15:48 It's I don't have enough data to determine what the causes are yet. I was just able to determine that there does seem to be data indicating that there's pressure, that this pressure on the environment exists during hunting season, and that's kind of thing that we're looking at to see what's going on in total in the green Swamp that is affecting all of the animals, not just this one particular species, but if it's affecting one species, it's affecting all of them. So it's going to affect the black bear and we've recently found panther tracks, so it is definitely impacting multiple species when we're seeing this type of activity.

16:37 Well, that's that's some that's some wild stuff. I've not heard any of that information about the Green Swamp yet, so you are definitely doing some pretty detailed research down there. I'd say listeners definitely want to check out the website and keep an eye on it for sure. But you know, Timmy, how did you get involved with the NAWAC. I have my mom to thank for that, going back to when I was four years old and she said, oh, it's just a bad drink, go back to bed. She was in twenty twenty two. She was on a Sunday drive with a friend a little bit south of where I live in Paulk County is an area where they do a lot of phosphate mining, and after the mining is completed, they put topsoil back on and they allow nature to reclaim the land because you can't really build there.

17:39 The soil just doesn't allow for that. So it makes some really nice country drives. And she was on a Sunday drive with a friend and they were rounding a corner and she looked up. There was a berm that the berms hold in the back fill from the phosphate process, and she the burn is probably twenty five feet high. There were no trees, there's no shrubs, there's no structures there. But she looked up at the top of this bern and she saw a figure, a large, bulky figure in mid stride. You've got this type of stride, and it startled her. She was afraid to say anything because she was afraid the person she was stop wood stop, and she did not want to be there, so she didn't say anything. As soon as she got home she called me and she said, I what do you think I saw?

18:43 And I was like, I don't know, Mom, what do you think you saw? So knowing that I've been had this kind of a mild obsession with bigwood sascage my whole life. She keeps asking me questions. So I went on a search for certainly there's an organization who's doing scientific study on the species. With all of the television shows, all the podcasts that are out there, there has to be an organization who's doing legitimate scientific study. And in trying to find the answers for my mom, I came across the NAWAC website. I read the information was on the website. I was really impressed with the approach that the organization took and took a chance. As I mentioned before, my background doesn't really lend toward what a lot of other investigators bring to the table. But I applied and I was accepted as a member of the organization. And I've not regretted, not one minute of it. Spent Since November of twenty twenty two, I have spent as much time possible learning from the people in the organization, not discounting what other people are doing, not by a long shot,

20:16 because there are people who are doing incredible work. But the members of the NAWAC, we have some of the top minds and thinkers and investigators and researchers in the subject and who are out often who are applying the science, and if they can't get in the field to apply the science, they are sharing ideas. That's something that you don't always encounter in this particular field. People who are willing to share. They're willing to share what they know, They're willing to share what they found, and the collaboration of the organization is what really that's the biggest benefit for me is being able to pick the brains people like Alton Higgins and Bob Strain, Kathy Strain. Having access to these individuals who have decades If you were to take an add up collectively the years of knowledge hundreds.

21:25 We have centuries of knowledge on the subject and it's there just for the asking. And if you don't know, someone doesn't know the answer. There are plenty of people there to collaborate and come up with ideas to art toward a solution. The background of the membership range from educators to veterinarians and medical doctors and firemen, police officers, military and other branches biologists. It covers the board, the gamut pilots. We have people from of very broad range of backgrounds who are bringing your expertise to the table.

22:15 And even if it's not one of the members his day to day job is in the field of construction. Actually several members their day to day job is in the bield of construction. But this skill set that they bring to the table is that you give them a challenge, say, oh, who thinks that it wouldn't it be cool if we had something that did this? Give them a few days and they're going to come up, like build it for themselves. They'll come up with this gadget or the solution. And it's because they're used to working with their heats, they're used to building things and making things. So it's not even what they do day to day skill set that they bring to the organization and that they're willing to share, And it's that incredible treasure trove of knowledge that the organization provides that I just that's what I love about the organization.

23:18 For those that you know, this is maybe the first introduction to the NAWAC, Can you share a little bit about what the goal of the organization is, what is publicly known about where they're focused, and things like that. Sure, absolutely, the overarching mission of the organization is to prove to science and to the government agencies the existence of the species that we refer to as the North American City. The goal for doing that so that we can enact efforts to preserve their environment for the sake of conservation. It would be an absolute shame if we found out too late that the species exists, if we can't act in time to preserve them, if the species goes extinct. We have species, hundreds of species going extinct parent simole day. And we even have species that are identified and oh look, here's a brand new species and it is identified, it is recognized, and it goes extinct because we're not able to act soon enough to preserve their environment an active conservation to be able to save

24:50 the species. That's what we're trying to do. Our mission is to get the species recognized and be able to enact to conservation efforts across the country. We are not just in Oklahoma, that's where Area X is identified. Are X is not named aria X because it's a mystery. It's named Area X because Y and Z didn't pan out. There are other areas. It was just like an alphabetical labeling and it's just area X is the one that panned out, but it does have this mystery, and of course X marks the spot and all of those things.

25:37 But that's not the only place where the organization conducts investigations. We have members who are conducting their own investigations as I do in Florida, members that are all over the country who are conducting investigations in their own locations. They are people we were investigating in Texas and Louisiana and wherever they call home in Maine. We literally have members in all four corners of the continent. But we also respond when people contact the organization they've had an encounter.

26:18 If they've had a sighting, we will have an investigator contact them. We will either talk to them if possible, we will go to the location. I did an investigation recently that was in the Green Swath and we will walk that investigation. We will we will go through the entire encounter with them if possible, and try to collect as much data as we can for the purpose of adding to what we know the species, as far as what are their behaviors, what are there seasonally, if we can pull together information about where they are in different times of the year, or they don't tend to be specifically more active at one time a day or at night, because we have people who have sightings during the day, we have people who have sightings at night, but different types that did it whistle at you, did it knock on a tree? Did it throw a rock at you? Behaviorally, we try to keep track of all of those things so that we can try to create all of these data points and use them to create a picture of what this animal does, how does it communicate, how does it behave because eventually we will get to a point where it's not a question of whether or not this

27:49 animal exists. It will become a question of what do they do, what are they like? And when we get past that. If you think back, it hasn't been that long ago, one hundred and thirty years ago that the Mountain gorilla was considered a myth until it was finally documented. And it was even less time than that that the panda was identified. It was again considered to be a mythical creature until science finally identified it in the scheme of species. That's like no time at all, really, so identifying a new species, especially a primate, it's twenty twenty December twenty twenty four, there was a brand new primate identified, and I think the guy was researching one square acre along the Amazon and identified a new primate while he was there. Identifying a new species that happens quite frequently.

28:56 Primates are less frequent, but they do happen. Discover bringing new primates happens. Getting this one discovered is not so much about getting science to recognize it. It's first overcoming the stigma associated with identifying this as a legitimate species. But the bigger issue is that this animal is incredibly intelligent, more so that people realize. And the more time you spend investigating this animal, the more you realize how intelligent they are. Primates in general are really really smart. This one has got to be the smartest as far as primates go, of the great apes, second to humans, this has to be the smartest of the primates because they've learned how to avoid humans.

29:55 Wow, how close do you feel that the organization is to to getting that goal that you have? We have gotten close it is. It's hard to say how close because it is it's close close. So you play in horseshoes or hand grenades, that kind of thing. Right. I have had an animal come in very close to me. I other investigators have had animals coming very close to them, so close that they could literally hear what was described as asthmatic breathing. And you've got to be pretty close to an animal to hear it. Resporate you that that's a close proximity to this animal. Getting evidence, there's lots of ways to go about collecting evidence, and it again comes down to what science is going to identify. People will ask me, oh, I've got this picture of the big Foot. When you look at it and you see a picture and it's really a blob, and I will tell them, you know, keep up the good work, keep trying.

31:14 But the benchmark, if it's not better than the Patterson Gimlin film, it's probably not done to move the needle forward. That said, with AI today, getting video, getting photos still not going to move the needle forward. We need evidence, scientific evidence that is going to either supplement or really drag the message home. If we do have video or photo, we have to do more than just images at this point. So we are doing a press for a DNA, We're doing a press for trying to collect other types of evidence that could include our samples are proving very difficult to come by, but it is something that we are constantly villaging for. We are also on always on the lookout for opportunities to find any other type of evidence.

32:19 Animals die, especially primates, they lose teeth and if we happen to be out and water flows downhill and washes things downhill with them. So when we are in the in area acts, when we are walking around, we are constantly on the lookout for bones and teeth and things like that. It would be wonderful if we could chirp across a bone or a tooth or something like that. They're rare in North America. Teeth probably easier to find because they stay around the longest when we're talking about what's left over from skeletal remains. But North America is just not very kind to remains. And that's why we don't have people say why can't you find fossil evidence or why can't you find skeletal evidences. You might find hog, you might find deer carcass. You rarely find bear carcass just lying in the woods. And usually when you do find deer fog, it's been hit by a car. Or it's a hunter that has shot the animal and left the rest of the carcass there. You don't find things like bear just in the woods. It's rare. You can, but it's rare. These animals are even more rare than

33:52 black bear, and they're very hard to find. It would be great if we could just cross one. What I'm getting to is the thing that most people are most uncomfortable about, and that is that it is the mission of the organization to collect the type specimen. It is not because we are mean, It is not because we hate these animals. On the contrary, it is because we are devoted to getting this animal recognized. And it is not our wishes. It is science that demands a type specimen. If you've ever taken your child, or if you yourself have ever gone to any natural history museum, you are going to see type specimens, thousands of them. They're not made up of nylon, they're not made up of man made materials. The type specimens that you see in the Natural History and Museum used to be living animals, and they are now in that museum for people to learn from them. It is not our intention to go in and wipe out a troop of these animals. We simply are trying to get evidence so that we can document the species. If we can do that without collecting a type specimen, that would absolutely be preferred. Science dictates otherwise,

35:26 and that makes people feel uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable. I am personally not a collector for the organization. There are individuals who are identified. They are carefully screened. I am not a hunter, so I would not be a good candidate for that. But I also know that there are things I didn't like to taking my child to have a doctor's appointments either. But there are things you have to do. You have to take your children to the dentist, and the dentist does things do them that makes them unhappy. There are things that we have to do that make us unhappy. And this is one of the things that It's not something we are bloodthirsty to do.

36:15 This is something that is necessary for us to be able to get the species identified. It is the way science has worked from the beginning. When it comes to biology and getting species recognized. It it can be not a fun conversation, for sure. Does the organization have a plan in mind? I mean, let's imagine for a minute. Someone does have a what ape in their sights and they're one hundred percent sure, Yes, this is not a human, So I'm going to pull the trigger and then we will have a type specimen.

36:58 If there are other wood apes around, logically one is to think there will be retaliation. So what is the plan in order to successfully harvest that type specimen and to be quite honest, not get yourselves killed in the process. There is a plan for that. It is we don't know what's going to happen. Primates behave differently. Some primates will if they hear gunshot, they will take off and run. Animals in general generally do take off and run. We have in it dotal evidence and that's all to go on.

37:40 Think about the Ape Canyon that in that incident. According to the retelling of that story, the apes retaliated. In other incidents of stories where hunters say they have shot an animal, it just disappeared. The body just disappeared. There was one I don't remember. I want to say it was in the Smoky Mountains where one hunter reported shooting one and went to their retrievement and it was gone. So don't know if it was for sure dead or if it was a family member came to recover it.

38:27 We don't know because it hasn't happened yet. We do know that the animals in response to gun fire will vacate the area, but we don't know what's going to happen when if an animal is in fact taken. There are other primates that in I have a friend who was telling me that I believe it was hallow monkeys, that he was in the military and hallow monkey was shot and the rest of the truth responded and retaliated.

39:16 So really, yes, so, And they are incredibly strong and can do that. They could kill you hallow monkeys if it doesn't take a whole bunch of them. They are very strong. Chimpanzees can kill an adult man. And the primates are strong. People. Forget that just because it's smaller than you doesn't mean that it's stronger than you. Play tuger war with your dog, right, So they're muscular and strong, and we don't know what these animals going to do.

39:59 And wood apes are particularly large. They are incredibly agile. As I mentioned before, they move probably the fastest land animal. I've never seen a cheat up with my own eyes. I understand the fastest land animal, I would imagine that it has to be equally as fast. The speed is until you've seen one move, the agility and the speed, it's impossible to describe to someone. It's like trying to describe how big the Grand Canyons to someone who's never seen it. If you haven't seen how fast these animals move, it's impossible to describe. And if you haven't seen how large they are, it's impossible to describe their solid muscle.

40:49 So if they did decide to retaliate it, it would be very dangerous. There is a plan in place. The plan is I don't want to get into too much detail because that's proprietary for the organization. But the plan first and foremost is security for the team members who are on that particular operation. The safety and security for the members is one of the reasons why it's we don't try and keep Area X private often like we don't keep the location private because we're trying to lock away a secret from the world. The reason that we don't publicly broadcasts where it is is because it's private property.

41:49 The property. Hunimers have a right to their privacy, but it is also to protect the safety of our investigators. It is to protect the animals themselves because we don't want people out there. They have the animals have a right to there, to to live out their lives and in their their happy their happy lives right they have. They have a right to not be harassed in their home environment. But also we don't want people to be tripping into the area where they don't belong if there is an operation going on and get hurt that there are a lot of animals. That's a dangerous place. There are a lot of animals out there that can hurt you, not just apes. But we also don't want someone tripping we don't be supposed to be Basically, and safety right is safety is first and foremost when we're doing in operation.

42:52 Safety is first and foremost. Safety for the investigators, safety for anyone who may anyone else to may be on property. Because they're this private property in the area, there's also National forest area nearby. We don't want to risk the safety of anyone who may be legally on national forest land, including National Forest Service, So we always put safety first. But second to that then would be securing that type specimen. Because if we get to the point where we do collect the amount of time and effort and energy and landing that has gone into making that successful. We want to make sure that we're able to secure the type specimen as well, so that would that would be second only.

43:47 To personal safety one hundred percent is Logistically, I can't imagine it, because you know, there's there's questions like do you have the whole specimen? Do you have parts of the specimen? And then once you have it, where is it being taken? And how is it getting there? And how are you potentially not getting stopped along the way. There's all these questions that are definitely proprietary. All those questions have been discussed, and a lot of it is we have to let our investigators and the team leads for each of the operations, we have to rely on them. The team leads are selected based on their experience in air X, based on their experience as representing the type of individual that we need that we believe is going to provide best judgment in those types of situations. So we rely on the team leader when they're out there to make those decisions. And the again, what are we doing if something goes sideways? Who's going to beforehand, before the operation starts, it's already dictated who has what role in the event. If it's a collection team, in the event this happens, what is your role and

45:18 everyone is expected to assume that role to make sure that the operation goes smoothly from the time that the collection is made until the specimen is secured wherever that end location is determined to be. Absolutely. Rick had mentioned a few really interesting things that have happened over the past five years, and something I would want to talk to you about today is you are involved with the asset, the all female asset team. Correct, that's correct. That's correct. That's awesome. Can you describe how that came to be, how it works, and maybe some interesting interactions that have come about because of it.

46:06 Sure, it came about. I have to back up to the year prior I talk about just it was. It was like a week of master class. My very first week in aria X was with Altin Higgins, Daryl Collier, and Matt Pruitt. I mean like it really it was. It was an amazing week. I learned so much about the topic and all three of them are just they represent the best of what we're trying to do, and I appreciate the opportunity so much to be able to learn from them. But what led me to that particular team was a conversation that we had had on the forum that they wanted to try and emulate the sounds of women and children, because people report that when women and children are in the woods, it tends to attract the attention of these animals. So I sent a private message and said, Okay, here's here's the deal. At this time, I wasn't even an investigator yet, I was just an associate member. I said, but if I'm invited to airy X,

47:38 I would be willing to be that noisemaker. I know, sound like a girl, look like a girl, Smell like a girl, right, And it was kind of an opportunity to test what that might. It's not that women don't go. We have women investigators in the organization, but typically so often what the operations are, it's very much the idea is to go in covertly in camo, going into hides to try to get pictures, you know, try to go in covertly. I was going to do the complete opposite.

48:27 I was going to be very out in the open. I was going to be as obvious as I could, laughing, singing talking. I literally took perfume in to the valley right just so that I into Area X, so that I could smell different. I took a dress and this is really really funny. It's basically a little donna read a little white donna read dress. And I had every intention of hiking the trails where this dress, just to be different. And Alton says to me, because you know, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do.

49:07 And I said, no, I don't mind. If it if it gets right right, if it if it helps, and he goes, no, really, and he's like, no, really, you don't have to do and I said it's he just don't wear the dress like HERD heard out and heard it was. It was really funny. I did not wear the dress. However, I did spend time away from camp, away from away from the main area where I would sit singing talk. I took a book and I read out loud and I laughed and I cried and I sang, and I hiked trails by myself to be as obvious as I could.

49:49 And it was my very first day in Area X. I think it was. We had been there maybe two hours. We had unpacked our gear and go over safety rules. We had gone over our rules if a collection happened to occur on that particular operational week, and they're like, okay, here you go, took me out to a location, hiked me out and said hang out, do your thing. And while I was sitting there taking a quiet moment, I heard my first Ohio how An areas. It went on for eight to ten seconds, and I was just frozen because I was like, am I hearing what I think I'm hearing? No, it was a distance away, but I was like, Okay, that was cool, you know, my first day, my first hours in Area X and actually hurting high.

50:48 So okay, moving forward. At one point during the week I had there was a terrible thunderstorm and it was lightning like crazy, and there was it was. It was really a dangerous type storm. And the guys are all in a tent somewhere else on the property close by, but I was in a cabin by myself basically, and one of the vehicles is parked next to the cabin. It's probably maybe three feet away from the window, right next to the cabin wall. So it's very, very close.

51:37 And this is I told this story enough times it's no longer embarrassing. But at the time I wanted to die. I didn't want to tell anybody this, But it is kind of funny. I had run out of personals. I had to hand wash a pair of underpants, and the night that it was storming, I had this pair of underpants hanging in the window to dry. No, to anyone who has never been nothing dries in the Washington Mountains. It's too humid. It is more humid in the Washington Mountains than it is in central Florida. So here they are, it's storming like crazy, and I've got this pair of underwear hanging in the window. Right the storm finally breaks, I can hear something. It sounds I can't tell if it's water dripping off the roof of the cabin, but it also sounds like a foot, And I'm like, don't you've got big foot on the brain, don't don't be that person. But I could I couldn't tell. It sounded like I could hear footsteps going around the cabin, the backside of the cabin, and I'm trying to just whether to get up and look, it's pitch black. You don't see anything out there. This is three point thirty in the morning. And all of a sudden, now the vehicle

53:09 that's part next to the cabins an sub. All of a sudden, something slams into the back of this sub so hard that the roof rack rattles, the same way that you if you slam the back deck of an sub really hard, it makes everything rattle. That's what it sounded like. It was so loud that one of the guys did get up and come out of the tent because they thought that gear was blowing around. At this point though the storm had slacked, so I heard them come out and go back in because I heard the tent door zipper opening closed. And the next morning I was like, what were you doing out in your vehicle that late at night? And he was like, I didn't.

53:57 I wasn't in my vehicle at all. And I realized that if he had opened the back hatch, the light would have been in my face because the door was right outside my window. Something slammed into the back of his truck so hard that it caused the entire vehicle rattle. Now I don't know what it was, but it was the same window where I had my underpants hanging out to dry, right, So that's what gave me the idea. What if we had an all female team and I told them when I volunteered, this is a little out of order. I told them, when I volunteered to go be the human, I would do it on one condition.

54:45 Do not call me bait because baite is just disposable. I would be considered an asset because an asset you will recover. And that's how the Asset Team name kind of came from. I'm like, okay, so what if we had an entire asset team and got to talking to some people at training camp the following year, and we kind of put together a team from that where we had a group of ladies who were willing to go and stay at the cabin and just be us and laugh and giggle and be loud, and we played movies one night, and we did a campfire, and we were camping right, but we were also being very diligent with thermals and conducting overwatch while an away team or a reaction force, depending on who you talked to. But the away team of collectors was staying some distance outside of our camp, and they would come in very covertly and take positions and in an attempt to be in position.

56:06 If we were able to get the attention of the wood apes to attract them into camp, that proved to be quite successful. I do have to say the activity that we had around camp was pretty exciting. That led to a number of encounters. We had a number of woodknocks, which are you you can account for a number of those that would occur about the same time in the evening. A number of vocalizations that were occurring right at dusk that were coming just over the ridge line that were very primate in nature and were the closest I could come to were sounds that hollow monkeys would make. We also I sitting around the campfire one night, i was looking at about about sixty yards away and I'm seeing to what looked like almost like embers in the hovering off the ground, and I'd go and that should not be there, and I'm looking at an eye shine it

57:41 estimated about eight feet off the ground. It's the first time I'd ever seen eye shine like that. And there were a number of incidents like that that occurred, but probably the most impactful were two incidents where one of our invest gators on two different occasions, was in a high position and could hear what I was mentioning earlier that asthmatic breathing, where he described it as he said that the lung capacity was massive, hearing the air flowing in and out. He said, it's like you could just hear the volumes of air moving and the length of time that it took for the air to go in and out of this animal's lungs, and it was close.

58:32 He was able to go back and track how close the animal was to him, and it was actually rather close. He was just a matter of just a few yards away. Where this animal had come down the ridgeline. It is fifty fifty angle maybe fifty degree angle the mountain behind the cabin, and these animals can move on this rocky surface silently and they creep in and you do not know that they are there. But it had come down and with just a few feet of him on two different occasions, and he could hear the thing breathing. One of the most dynamic, though, was one of our team members who was in position in his side and one of the animals he had he had used to thermal and didn't see anything, and we think that it was light from the thermal. As he pulled the thermo away, that kind of kind of lit him up, and something from up the mountain charged him, came running down the mountain and continued to jump, moving from side to side in several several spots before it finally retreated. He came

1:00:04 down the mountain visibly, and this guy is as stoic a stoic comes. He's as level as they get. And we did a quick interview of his encounter, what happened, and then to kind of catch everything and they went back up the mountain the next day. Where he was sitting, there was a small sapling that had been shredded. He didn't do it, but there's a sapling that had been shredded, and there were imprints in the ground, the scuff marks in the ground where they could see. He thought that the animal was jumping maybe five feet, and the distance was much greater than that. It was significantly greater than that.

1:00:47 I think it was somewhere between eight and ten feet that the animal was jumping. The spots that it was jumping, and in one location there were finger divots in the ground, in the soil, and he put his hand down and his fingertips were just touching where the finger marks were going in. He couldn't reach where the finger marks were going into the ground, but it was all five and it just it wasn't deep enough to cast. But the imprint, the handprint was there, but it was He's six six' one, He's a good sized guy, and his hand could not his full hand could not reach as far as where the finger holes went in. So that was probably the most dynamic thing that happened to be bluff charged and come down that mountain and stop clean pants. I don't know how many people have done that. We had rocks thrown at us. Weird things happening, Like I rated you to the guys, I'm like, were you guys? Were you up and like midnight and they're like, no, we were.

1:02:02 We were out by nine, not by nine o'clock. I heard the only way I could describe it is orc laughter from like the Orcs, from like Lord of the Rings. It was like that. I heard orc laughter in the at like twelve twelve thirty at night, and like, what are the guys doing up this late? And they're a good distance away because I could hear it echoing. It was so loud, I could hear echoing. But that's the best way I could describe it. And then I heard Samurai. Speech that that that operational week as well, where I thought it was somebody talking in their sleep, and it turned out that it wasn't them talking in their sleep.

1:02:47 It was then there was something enunciating, but it wasn't the person that I thought it was. We had a number of things happen. The most for me personally, I think the the I don't want to call it scary, but I had gone to the latrine. The latrine is a short walk away from the cabin, maybe twenty five thirty yards away from the cabin. At seven o'clock in the morning, no one else is up, and this was after a very active night where there was quite a bit of we heard quite a bit of movement. We heard the stamp. That was the night that I heard the Samurai speech, and seven o'clock in the morning and I go down to latrine. I hear nothing, and open theatree door, come out, lock the latrine door, and as I'm walking back toward the cabin to my right up the mountain. And this is only probably maybe it's maybe thirty feet away that the valley, the floor of this where the site is, where the cabin is located, the flat area, it's only like twenty thirty feet away. And then the mountain goes straight up. There is something massive

1:04:22 busting up the mountain and it cleared in four big, huge pushes, just one, two, three four. It probably pushed up the height of about a three story building. It just bo bo bo boom, and it was gone. And the path that it cleared of brush was four feet bid four five feet wide. It was massive. The foliage there is so thick with greenbriar and other brush. I couldn't see what was moving. But this animal was sitting at the base of the mountain twenty twenty five feet away from me, and I'm going, okay, this just happened.

1:05:11 That is why you make sure that you are safety focused and you are carrying something to protect yourself with, and you don't go anywhere along. People can do whatever they want, but for safety, don't go anywhere alone. And I yeah, Shortly after that, I was very grateful that someone else was awake and moving around and again telling me about their encounter for the night, which was also quite exciting. So that was probably the most exciting thing that happened to me that particular week. But all of this is happening right in the same area. It's right behind the cabin and at the location where we operate, it's in the same general area. The animals are coming in because it's part of their home range and they are I don't necessarily think that they are coming to see what we're up to. I think that we happen to be close to a resource that they find valuable, and while they're there, they're wanting to know what we're up to, and they find us curious. So when we turn the lights off and maybe let the fire go out, they get curious, Hey where'd you go? And they'll start

1:06:42 theiring rocks that sort of thing. Okay, yeah, my goodness. So some really intense stuff is still happening to the organization, which is great to hear that there's still activity. Someone is probably a need to follow up so and you can just it can just be a short answer the So the undergarment that you hung up, did that disappear or was it still there the next day? No? No, that was still there was actually inside the cabin. Because I was there with the guys, I didn't want to. I told them, I said, you know, you guys don't bother me, so don't let you bother you. However, I was not going to hang it outside the cabin. It was it was still inside the cabin. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I went home with those. Yeah, I went home with.

1:07:32 Those good good. Have there been times in the last five years where individuals have had actual sightings of what ape in that area? Absolutely, yes, absolutely, we have had the since the since Mike wrote his book, there have been a number of incidents where people have had sightings. There are there are oh gosh, people who have seen full on bipedal apes walking across the trail in front of them. There have been sightings of cinnamon colored ape, a sighting of one that is the color of the like an old buck.

1:08:37 I saw what I believe to be an ape. It was a very brief siding. It was a quadri petal, but it certainly was not a deer, and it was not a bear. It didn't move or behave like that. And the back end of this animal was so broad that it doesn't fit clock tia for anything else, but it was the color of an old buck, not really brown, not really tan, really really dark tan, somewhere in between. There have been sightings of smaller not kind of a juvenile black, very Usually the smaller ones are considered to be Usually they're they're identified as being black, the smaller ones.

1:09:30 Last year, I believe it was that one of our investigators saw the animal was hanging from a tree limb and then dropped to the ground and that one was He described that one as being jet black, and then kind of, you know, it took off. We've had a number of visuals in the last five years, and in the last two or three years in particular, we have been It appears that we haven't been as active because we haven't been we haven't been as present on social media, but we have still been very active. We're a volunteer organization and we need volunteers to be able to do these things right. And if we don't have someone who's available to do those things, then then the podcasts don't get done or the social media posts don't get done.

1:10:36 But we do still have members who are dedicated, and we do still have folks that are boots on the ground every single year and as a result, we are having those encounters which do include visuals, and that's been for the last three years, We've last five years, I'm sure, but definitely for the last three years we've consistently had in weeks where there have been a number of sightings. Well, that's fantastic. Do you feel like there've been any substantial photo or video evidence that's been captured through those visual encounters?

1:11:16 Video evidence not that we have seen. We had we've had some thermal evidence that we are very carefully analyzing. We are not ready to release that thermal evidence yet. It is very compelling that came from the asset team. It is compelling. It is disturbing if you if you see it, but it is as with anything kind of a neat blot. If you look at it, you're gonna different people look at it. Different people are gonna tell you different things. So we're still analyzing it to determine how whether or not, you know, we're ready to release that.

1:12:05 We're very conservative. We don't want to put something out and say this is what we think it is. We're not going to put something out and say, yeah, this is one hundred percent definitive. This is evidence of This is video, thermal video over what a We want to analyze it and we want to be conservative about it. We did get We do have a member who had some photographs through through foliage so difficult. Gosh, it's hard to describe. It is so difficult to get video or photographs because the Washton Mountains are so dense. People told we'll just get drones in there. How you can't fly them under the foliage. It's too thick, and you can't see anything through the top of foliage because is too thick.

1:13:01 But they're worse than photographs that were taken that you can see it. It looks, it's very compelling. It doesn't have the shape of a bear, but it does have a dark charcoal to black coat, and it has the it has the shape of an animal of a bikekeetle, So we it compelling. They're interesting. The photographs are interesting, but they're not They're not to the point where we're going to put them out and say, hey, world, we have definitive evidence because they're not quite there. As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of photographs that come out looking like a blob squatch. If it's not equal to or better than the Patterson Gimlin film. We really don't have anything that moves the needle.

1:13:57 Sure you might not be able to answer this, but how can a thermal image be disturbing? Depending on who you ask and depending on what they see. When I looked at the thermal video, I put it up on my big screen TV, it's HD. What I saw was an animal that was creeping very slowly forward at a very very controlled pace, and at one point you can see the animal's bottom lip drop down. I let me rephrase that. I in my interpretation, I see the animal's bottom lip open, and I can see teeth, and it looks like the It looks like the animals opening and closing its mouth two or three times goods.

1:15:04 And then and then it's kind of creeping forward this way, and it moves its mouth, and then it kind of drifts back into its previous position and then moves forward outside the range of the thermal behind some foliage. So it's disturbing. At the clarity, you can see fingers. I can see fingers in the thermal, and I could see the bottom lip, which was I can't even do what the bottom lip was doing it was long, the bottom lip dipped forward more than what humans can typically do, and then doing so, I could see teeth in the thermal, and that was what I found disturbing. Yeah, and that was what I saw in the thermal. What I saw.

1:16:06 The clarity of that I found disserving. So we're not there. Yeah, So you guys must have some really good equipment. Then the individual who took that thermal had a nice high end thermal. That's some the organization has some equipment. Individuals choose to bring in their own equipment. I go in with my own. This individual, I believe was using his own equipment, which was higher end equipment as well, and his equipment was able to capture and it was. It was Again, everyone who looks at it has a slightly different interpretation, and that's why the organization isn't willing to release it or say definitively what it was. My interpretation of what I saw, it looks to me as if there is an animal that is opening and closing its mouth and I can see teeth. So yes, from from thermal that he took, it's he has he has a nice equipment.

1:17:19 Yes, that is that is fantastic who knows. Hopefully someday that might be released. But I totally get it. I know different organizations have things that they hold on to for years, and that is you know, that's their prerogative, and that's all right. I know we're getting close to the end of our time today, but maybe time for or one or two more questions. Has there been a time in the last five years where things have gone sideways or almost gone sideways or has it been pretty well under control. I don't believe that there's been time. To my knowledge, there hasn't been times where things have gone sideways. They're there, for example, when the individuals bluff charged. You could consider that going sideways. Uh. I think that anytime you're in the woods, anything could go sideways.

1:18:18 Uh. You could have an individual fall and get injured or snake. But there there are a number of things that could go wrong when you're in this environment and medical help is three hours away by the time you get out, because they're not going to come in for you. But to my to my knowledge, we have not had anything where where we've had either with the apes or or not, where we've had anything go sideways. The teams are generally so well disciplined and they are so cohesive that we've we've been able to work through issues that have come up.

1:19:03 We have had team members who have had to leave the area and go see medical help, but they were able to do so either on their own or with the assistance of like one person to drive them out, but not not in the situation that was with such an emergent situation where like you say, go sideways. The organization has has been very fortunate that we've we've been able to condict continue to conduct operations in a way that we've we've remained safe. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean path could go totally different. And in the last few years, what do you feel the closest an individual with the organization has come to a wood ape in terms of like distance.

1:19:54 The two that I mentioned where where where the one individual a goot bluff charged and the other individual had that animal sitting within just I think it was within five yards of his location. Literally, the animals sat down within five yards of him and just sat down. I don't know if you heard that pain or not, hope not. The animal just sat down within about five yards of his location and he could hear breathing that the animal knew he was there, had to have known who was there.

1:20:35 I'm of the opinion that if you do all of the you can wash your clothes and the non the non smell the dead down wind, and you can douse yourself and dead down wind, then you can you can play all the stuff on you so you smell like the outdoors. At the end of the day, we're human being and we still sweat, and whenever you ate and toothpaste few use, you are going to smell like a human when you go in there. And I believe that the animals are going to smell you. I had. I was in a high location, and I was in a good high location at fifty yards. The other team member who put me in that spot could not see me, and he knew I was there. And I was on the edge of a ravine, and at about fifteen feet over my head, something approached the edge of the ravine.

1:21:39 I could hear it when we walked up, and I could hear it sniffing and growling as it was going, growling and sniffing the air. It could smell me, but it couldn't see me. That was fine, That was that's a moment when you realize what you're going to do if you're in that situation, When you're in that situation, you realize what you're going to do. They know you're there. It doesn't matter what you do. I believe they know you're there. And I believe that they knew that this investigator was sitting very close to him, and the animal didn't care. It just sat there and then it moved on.

1:22:32 So I technically I believe that the animal that approached me was an ape, and that animal would literally been about fifteen feet away from me. The animal that approached the other team member would have been about five yards away from him if that, and the animal that bluff charged the other team member was probably as close as that, within three to five yards as well. So the animals, the animals that get closed, they don't have a lot to be afraid of as long as they can maintain cover. They don't have a lot to be afraid of from us.

1:23:15 But they do maintain they do stay out of site from us because I believe they know, I mean, they see if we can see them, they're they'rey more danger. Because because at the end of the day, I mean, you're looking at what what you have estimated to be in there. I mean much bigger than the size of like a mountain gorilla. Correct, absolutely at least at least twice the size of a mountain gorilla. The ones that I have seen, the one that I saw when it was four, had to be at least seven foot talk because it looked down on me. The animal that I saw, I've seen two in the swamp, and that one had to be at least seven foot tall, seven and a half. And they are, they are broad. So the animal that I saw quadre peatally, if that was one eight that's eighteen inches, and that was one glute, the three foot three foot wide back end, all right, and and it was at least five feet off the ground, that's the rump. If the rump, the top of the rump was five feet off the ground and that animal stood up, then make the estimate of how tall that animal would have been.

1:24:48 Theirs incredible. They're large, incredible. They're very large animals, and they can move with incredible speed and agility and absolutely silently when they wish, And that is that is what astonishes me. That they can creep in so silently, taking advantage of the wind or I mean all pre animal a predatory animals will do that. They'll take advantage of wind and another noise to move and then they'll wait. They're very patient, they'll just wait so and they they they're very smart. They're very very smart.

1:25:37 They're incredible, they are. There are a lot of animals that people will obsess over for various and centric reasons. The reason that I obsess over this animal is because of the personal encounters that I've had, but also because they are just fascinating their behaviors. We don't know what they mean when they vocalize, We don't know why they make We don't even truly know how they're making sounds.

1:26:18 If they're knocking on trees, is it are they really hitting trees with sticks? We may be looking at evidence that indicates that they chimpanzees. They've documented chimpanzees or collecting rocks by trees, and we have found evidence that appears that rocks have been collected by trees. Now have the apes done that or have humans done that? We're looking into that. That is something that we were curved in Area X. So we don't have documentation as the apes are doing that, but we do have documentation that we do have evidence. We're looking at certain types of trees that have marks on them, scar marks on them that indicate that that may be the type of tree that where the knocks are coming from. We are looking at where those rocks are being collected and there is a correlation between the rocks being collected at these certain types of trees. Is that a one off or a two off or is there enough data there we're looking into that.

1:27:31 We don't know exactly, but we're looking into that. And that's the type of stuff that we're trying to collect data for. That's the type of science that we're trying to make sense of that we're trying to apply and make sense of. It's a lot. Really exciting. This is all very exciting to hear that stuff like this is still happening where the organization. And thank you so much for coming on, Tammy Grimes, And do you mind taking a few minutes and just sharing how people can keep up to date with an AWAC, anything that you would want listeners to know about about different things that they can look into or keep up to date with or even try to become a member of the NAWAC.

1:28:27 Sure absolutely. We are working on the podcast. We do have a team who is working on the podcast. It's not the frequency that it had been in the past, but we are working on the podcast, so keep tuned to the apes. Among this podcast that's available directly off of the NAWC website, which is what a dot org. You can add as it there and I believe that you could pick it up on whatever podcast application that you use. We are also working on getting our Facebook more current, so it's not it's not quite there yet, but we are working on getting our Facebook account more active, so keep an eye on that. We are working on some other projects as well that we hope to have it They're not short term. These are more long term.

1:29:23 We're working on another washtile monograph, hoping to have something out assume that's going to be several months, So that's long term research that needs to be done based on the last five years of activity that we've had and kind of focusing more on behavioral what we've seen the animals doing behaviorally, and outside of outside of those things, we're working on some other things to try and get more engagement with the community because we know that the work we're doing is important and we want our we want the community at March to know more about what we're doing, and we haven't been letting our little light shine.

1:30:09 We really need to do a better job of letting our little light shine. If anyone is interested in becoming a member, it is same same website dot org. You can follow the links on the website and go to the application fill out an application there. Also, if anyone is interested in just supporting what we do, if you don't necessarily want to be a member and be involved with the investigative process, but that you would like to participate in the act in supporting our research, there's also place there that you can fill out a form for donation and we would put that toward equipment. We would put that toward funding things like our initiative for e DNA research that that we're going to be working on this coming operational year. So if you are interested in helping see this move to fruition, that would be a good way to support the organization.

1:31:18 That is awesome, So listeners, I'll have links in the show notes about all that good stuff. But thank you again Tammy for coming on the show, and a special thank to, special thanks to the Nawac for allowing myself to talk to yourself today and Rick a few episodes ago as always happy to hear about what is going on and to talk to individuals within the organization. But thank you so much. It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Have you ever heard all the accounts of bigfoot activity around Oakridge, Oregon? And you think to yourself, Man, I would love to get out in those woods and experience it myself. Well, guess what this year you can. If this is interesting to you, stay tuned because it's pretty cool.

1:32:09 Sasquatch Summer Fest is coming up July tenth through the eleventh, twenty twenty six. It's gonna be even better than the previous year's reason number one, I'll be one of the speakers. It's gonna be wild. I'll probably I'll say this. There may be stuff you haven't heard anywhere else, because let's just say sometimes it's well, you just gotta be there. We'll leave at that. More about looking for Bigfoot in the Oakridge Woods. Now check this out. You may know Jason Kenzie from his documentary series Searching for Sasquatch. Well, this year you can not only go to the festival, but you can also sign up for a track deep in the Wild forest outside of Oakridge with Jason Kenzie to the Bigfoot Spots to look for Bigfoot. There's only eight spots to sign up for this, and yes, this will also be filmed for the next chapter in his documentary series, which is Searching for Sasquatch. This is a once in a lifetime deal. It's just trust it's going to be a wild, wild experience. To get a ticket, head on over to Sasquatch Summerfest dot com and listeners can use the code b sp like Bigfoot Society podcast in order to get a two day pass for the price of a one day pass. So thanks to Priscilla

1:33:43 for giving me that code so that you guys can can get a little a little help with the cost there. Appreciate that, Priscilla. I hope to see you at the booth in Oakridge this year. We can tell talk about your encounter. Was able to talk to so many people last year and the year before. It is an incredible time. You're not going to want to miss it, and I'll see you there. Before we wrap this episode, I want to say something directly to a very specific group of listeners. If you're in the military, any branch or forces, and if you've seen something that no one can explain, or if you're a National park ranger or forestry worker who's been told to stay quiet, or if you're a pilot who's seen something strange down on the ground, or if you're with the FBI a federal agency, or working intelligence and you've stumbled upon something you're not allowed to talk about.

1:34:40 And if you're a firefighter, paramedic, or search and rescue responder who's heard screams or found tracks that didn't make sense. If you're in the logging industry on a remote oil field, or a trucker with government contracts and you've had something happen that you've never told a soul. And if you're a biologist, a while life specialist, or a field researcher under contract who has found evidence you're not allowed to report. If you're a pastor, a missionary, or someone on a spiritual retreat and you saw something that shook your faith, or if you work in the shadows, CIA, NSA, or anything with clearance and you've seen what the public hasn't, then I want to talk to you even if it's anonymous, you can reach me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com.

1:35:30 The world needs to hear what you've been forced to carry alone, and you're not alone. You've got the story, We've got the mic. See you in the woods. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast. Every encounter we share reminds us that the world is bigger and stranger than we think, and that the truth is often hiding just beyond the tree line. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the channel on YouTube hit the bell so you don't miss the next episode, and share this with a friend who's into mysteries, monsters, or the unexplained. And if you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple podcast, please follow the show there and leave us a five star positive review because all that helps more people discover the show. And remember, if you or someone you know has had a Bigfoot sighting, please I'd love to hear from you, so email me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com and let's start the conversation. If you haven't gotten a chance yet, check out our membership community over at www dot Bigfoot Society podcast dot com and that's where you can hear tomorrow's episode today early in ad free and members only episodes every week. Also, it's a place to connect with other people that are into the Bigfoot subject as much as you are. Thanks again for following along with the Bigfoot Society until next time, Keep your eyes open, trust your gut, and never stop asking what else might be out there?

1:36:53 And see you in the woods.