Sept. 29, 2024

Drumming For Bigfoot with Henry Franzoni: The Lost History (Archive Episode)

This episode was first aired on 1/2/23.I've been re-airing my old episodes with Henry Franzoni as a tribute to his legacy and that more people will enjoy him the way I did.

Description:In this episode, I talk to Henry Franzoni, musician and Bigfoot...

Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconCastro podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 1

This episode was first aired on 1/2/23.I've been re-airing my old episodes with Henry Franzoni as a tribute to his legacy and that more people will enjoy him the way I did.

Description:In this episode, I talk to Henry Franzoni, musician and Bigfoot enthusiast. The following topics are covered in this chat so you won't want to miss it!

Henry’s favorite Portland noodle place
Caveman Shoestore
Growing up in New Jersey
Henry’s 1993 Skookum Lake experience with Bigfoot, a UFO and the Men in Black.
The Physics of Bigfoot
First Nations interactions with Sasquatch
Working with Peter Byrne in the Bigfoot Research Project.
Interactions with Ray Crowe in his bookstore.
Henry’s friendship with Renee Dahinden
The Lost History of Drumming for Bigfoot.

Resources:
Books mentioned -
Henry’s book - In the Spirit of Seatco - https://amzn.to/3VvDPl6 (affiliate link)
The Oregon Bigfoot Highway - https://amzn.to/3G9QLXZ (affiliate link)
Mount Shasta’s Forgotten History and Legends by D.W. Naef - https://amzn.to/3G4bZ9X (affiliate link)

Movies mentioned - A Flash of Beauty on Amazon - https://amzn.to/3vsqOhp (affiliate link)
Henry’s documentary - Drumming for Bigfoot - https://tubitv.com/movies/475884/to-the-ends-of-the-earth-bigfoot-monster-mystery?start=true(titled on Tubi as To the Ends of the Earth)
VHS transfer copy of Drumming for Bigfoot on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VPdOq7x8uM
Sasquatch Odyssey on Tubi - https://tubitv.com/movies/706373/sasquatch-odyssey-the-hunt-for-bigfoot?start=true

Read more:Towards a Resolution of the Bigfoot Phenomenon by J Glickmanhttp://www.photekimaging.com/Support/rptcol2.pdf

Also, it seems as if there was a Raw Audio of this interview posted of this interview as well. I can't remember what I had taken out. Maybe cussin'? Find out and enjoy! - https://www.patreon.com/posts/bigfoot-society-76023685

Share your Bigfoot encounter with me here: bigfootsociety@gmail.com

Want to call in and leave a voicemail of your encounters for the podcast - Check this out here - https://www.speakpipe.com/bigfootsociety
(Use multiple voice mails if needed!)

🔴 Subscribe to hear more Bigfoot encounters: https://www.youtube.com/@BigfootSociety?sub_confirmation=1

Share this video with a friend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5v75Od-X38

Watch more episodes of the Bigfoot Society podcast here –

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:01.360
Welcome to Big for Society.

2
00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:04.280
If you have Bigfoot activity to report from the same

3
00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:07.080
areas discussed in this episode, please reach out to me

4
00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:10.320
directly after this episode. And if you'd like to be

5
00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:14.240
on the podcast to discuss a personal Bigfoot encounter, please

6
00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:17.039
reach out to me directly at Bigfoot Society at gmail

7
00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:19.079
dot com. Do you wish there was more Big for

8
00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.160
Society to listen to you every week? Well there is now.

9
00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:24.800
If you become a supporting member over at Patreon, you

10
00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:29.039
get a special members only episode every single week on Wednesdays,

11
00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:33.719
and sometimes even more episodes. Head on over to patreon

12
00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:36.880
dot com. Forward slash the Bigfoot Society and now let's

13
00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:37.759
get on with the show.

14
00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:40.000
All right.

15
00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:45.560
Bigfoot Society got the privilege of chatting tonight with mister

16
00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:50.359
Henry Franzoni from out in the Pacific Northwest.

17
00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:52.119
How are you doing today, Henry?

18
00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:56.159
I'm doing really well. Thanks for asking. How about you?

19
00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:57.039
How are you doing?

20
00:00:57.280 --> 00:00:58.560
Oh, I'm doing good.

21
00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:03.439
I'm doing good up in my recording studio chilling out.

22
00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:09.000
But a few located I'm I'm located in Central Iowa,

23
00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:13.920
believe it or not, so talking about so I want

24
00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:19.640
to make sure that listeners know a little bit about, uh,

25
00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:21.959
what it is that that you've done over the years,

26
00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:23.519
and we'll get more into it, Henry.

27
00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.400
But if if.

28
00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:31.439
People have watched the the ninety seven documentary Drumming for Bigfoot.

29
00:01:31.959 --> 00:01:35.040
People that have watched that documentary are usually super big

30
00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:39.760
fans of it, then this is the Henry Franzoni that's

31
00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:45.159
from that documentary. Also, Henry has written a book in

32
00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:49.159
the Spirit of Siatcho. And let me know if I

33
00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:50.200
pronounced that correct.

34
00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:53.000
I tried to get the pronunciation. I did, okay, good.

35
00:01:55.400 --> 00:02:00.760
And he's living in around the Portland, Oregon area, been

36
00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:03.799
involved with many different Bigfoot related things over the.

37
00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:07.319
Years, and it's going to be a chat about that.

38
00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:09.960
It's going to be a fun one.

39
00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:14.240
So, Henry, anything else that we need to put in

40
00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.680
there to kind of paint the paint. What's going on

41
00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:19.800
with the Henry Franzoni story.

42
00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.240
I'm a little different than all the other bigfoot people.

43
00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:27.719
Oh yes, I love it.

44
00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:34.039
The strange thing about me is that I was a

45
00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:40.039
bigfoot freak in nineteen ninety three when I was really obsessed.

46
00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:45.840
For about five six seven years, I was really obsessed,

47
00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:55.919
and I became a real biologist from my fascination with bigfoot,

48
00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:01.360
so unlike most insane bigfoot people, I actually became a scientist.

49
00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.759
That would be like one of the things about me

50
00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:09.639
that's weird. And then I worked for the tribes here

51
00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:12.599
in the Northwest, all along the Columbia River for about

52
00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:19.159
twenty five years, became a government supervisory scientist in fact

53
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:25.439
in this basin. So you know, imagine my surprise as

54
00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:30.919
I became I had a career in natural resources management

55
00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:34.759
that developed from my interest in bigfoot.

56
00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:39.479
Which is it's fascinating how you were able to build

57
00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:44.479
a career that overlapped with that passion. It's just it's

58
00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:47.319
the coolest thing ever, really. And you refer to that

59
00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:51.639
a little bit in your You were in the documentary

60
00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.680
A Flash of Beauty. You had an interview in that,

61
00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:57.960
and you kind of refer to that a little bit

62
00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:01.560
in there as well. But I wanted to start off

63
00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:05.080
with a few softball questions, kind of get the ball rolling.

64
00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:08.960
So you're in the Portland area. You've lived in there

65
00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:11.800
for quite a while, right, you've been in that Portland area?

66
00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:16.079
Well, yeah, you know, I mean I moved to Portland

67
00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:19.680
in nineteen seventy four. Wow, So I've been there a

68
00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:24.040
long time. But I've moved out of Portland in the

69
00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:29.920
year nineteen ninety seven. That's really when I left. I well,

70
00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:35.000
I moved to the periphery. I've moved about an hour

71
00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:38.680
outside of town. I've always lived about an hour from Portland,

72
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:42.040
and right now I live about an hour from port

73
00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:46.680
I live in Washington and I live down the Columbia

74
00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:51.160
River in a place called Oak Point. So I'm about

75
00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:56.399
I don't know, sixty miles from Portland, maybe something like that,

76
00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:01.160
you know, but I'm in another state, but definitely that

77
00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:04.959
same area, lower Columbia River area. I'm a river rat.

78
00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:10.040
I have stuck to the river and I still am

79
00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:11.399
still a river rat.

80
00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:16.519
So I love that the Portland area is so beautiful.

81
00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:19.160
You know, me and my wife, we took the we

82
00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:21.439
took a trip out there. Of course, you know, one

83
00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:24.560
of the groups of people that after Portland it was huge.

84
00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:26.439
We're like, oh, we got to visit like everyone in

85
00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:28.920
there in there, you know, did.

86
00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:32.079
But it's it's beautiful.

87
00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:36.279
So, as a person that lived there for a while,

88
00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:40.079
did you have any favorite restaurants when you lived in

89
00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:44.360
that area or anything you know cool that you would

90
00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:47.879
you would do that maybe the tourists wouldn't wouldn't know

91
00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:49.839
about I.

92
00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:53.519
Yeah, well there was there was a lot of There

93
00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:57.920
was a restaurant still is called Frank's Handmade Noodles, which okay,

94
00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:07.439
total killer, like the killer restaurant. And I actually played

95
00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:14.720
a regular customer on Diner's Drive ins and Dives when

96
00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:21.319
Frank's got onto Triple D. No way, Yes, Frank's got

97
00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:23.920
on the trip which spoiled Franks and turned it into

98
00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:27.560
two Francs in two different places and made them go

99
00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:29.839
much more high end. So you know, just by doing

100
00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:33.000
a Triple D appearance, Yeah, it kind of messed up

101
00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:37.480
my favorite place, you know. No, yeah, like so I'm like,

102
00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:41.160
oh man, that was but you know, now there's two

103
00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:44.720
of them, you know, what can I say? But yeah,

104
00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:47.639
And there was always a place called Montage that I loved,

105
00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:51.839
which was totally the great hangout spot for late night

106
00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:56.199
musicians and stuff. You know, it was like the great place.

107
00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:00.959
But now it's a food cart post COVID so oh yeah, sure,

108
00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:06.800
you know, it got scaled down. But yeah, there's there's

109
00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:11.600
a lot of like old school Portland stuff, Hubert's places

110
00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:16.120
like that that people, you know, modern modern people don't

111
00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:17.839
know about, but they're still there.

112
00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:21.319
Did you meet Guy FIEDI then.

113
00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:28.920
No, No, Okay, I'm like Guy was like this, you know,

114
00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:32.439
he was like three layers of people beat away from me,

115
00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:39.040
you know, like I was. It was evidently when he

116
00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:42.120
came to town, he had college friends he was visiting with,

117
00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:45.000
so all his producers and everything like just shot the

118
00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.759
whole episode and then he just like came in and

119
00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:49.959
right at the end.

120
00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:55.199
We're going to get we will get to the bigfoot

121
00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:57.920
stuff in a minute listeners. But this is just this

122
00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:01.680
is totally unexpected. I just I love that little tidbit

123
00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:07.319
about diners, drives and whatever. Three d's So if you

124
00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:09.920
watch that episode, you can actually see yourself in it,

125
00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:10.639
like you're in it.

126
00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:14.279
One word I say something like, well it's food made

127
00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:18.759
with love. Yeah, actually say a line, a line that

128
00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.439
makes it into the Triple D episode.

129
00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:24.240
I'm going to watch that tonight. That is so good. Okay,

130
00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:27.079
it's talking about.

131
00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:29.519
Your you know, you have so many years of you know,

132
00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:36.120
being a musician. You were involved with you know, Caveman

133
00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:41.600
Shoe Store is the name of your your band. I

134
00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.559
was talking to Mark Murcell about that at Cryptic Cohn.

135
00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:47.960
We were discussing about how he met you back in

136
00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:50.519
the day and he was a big fan of that

137
00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:53.559
that band. But you know, through through your years of

138
00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:56.240
being a musician, has there been like a performance with

139
00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:00.960
a certain person or just a certain when you're performing

140
00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:05.120
that really stuck out in your mind, kind of encapsulated like, oh,

141
00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:07.039
this is just just pure magic.

142
00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:18.279
There's there's a number of them, really, you see. I

143
00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:21.159
I had the privilege of working with this musician named

144
00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:26.679
Fred Shallonor. He's a bass player, and he died and

145
00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:31.399
we worked together for forty years and Kman Shoe Star

146
00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:34.080
was one of the bands we had together. We had

147
00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:38.799
three different bands actually maybe more like five different bands

148
00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:43.960
since we were kids, since we were nineteen. From nineteen

149
00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:48.000
to sixty four, I worked with Fred Wow something like that.

150
00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:54.200
So this guy was just really one in a million

151
00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:59.440
as musicians go, and he was just inspired. And there

152
00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:02.480
were a lot of times where I'd be on stage

153
00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:08.120
with him and you know, it would just be magic.

154
00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:13.759
Magic would take over. And so there were you know, luckily,

155
00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:16.840
fortunately there were some recordings made of a couple of

156
00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:24.039
those moments. But yeah, there was actually this one. I

157
00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:27.759
just got this tape and I put it on my

158
00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:32.360
band Campsite. There was a gig I played at Satira

159
00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:37.720
Kan in nineteen ninety two and our band couldn't make it,

160
00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:40.840
so it was just me and Fred. But we were

161
00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:43.639
in the middle of recording a cave Manchu Store record

162
00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:47.679
called cave Man Master Cylinder, and so Fred and I

163
00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:51.039
had all those songs in our head and we went

164
00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:54.960
and had to play this club date and there were

165
00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:56.919
only two of us, so we had to fill in

166
00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:00.559
all the other parts ourselves, so we had, you know,

167
00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:04.360
pretend that we were also playing the keyboards and this

168
00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:08.799
and then that and everything, and and that particular performance,

169
00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:12.879
I still listened to it because like it was completely amazing,

170
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:15.480
and you know, I just listen to it still to

171
00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:18.120
this day and go, oh my god, you know that

172
00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:23.559
was there's those moments, right, there's a special magic moment. Yeah,

173
00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:26.919
so yeah, that was. That was one. There is one,

174
00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:30.159
but that's one, but there's a bunch of them. Because

175
00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:37.000
I opened for Ornette Coleman in France once at the

176
00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:44.559
festival in nineteen ninety four, and we played really well

177
00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:47.000
that night, and that was cave in a Shoe store,

178
00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:51.240
But yeah, we played really well and we had some

179
00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:54.120
good shows we played some good shows for sure where

180
00:11:54.159 --> 00:12:01.000
we you know, the standards I had were you're supposed

181
00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.799
to be able to deliver the goods every time you

182
00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.879
play live. So if you made records, you have to

183
00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.799
be able to deliver what you do on the records

184
00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:15.960
live or everybody's going to go, oh man, they suck live, you.

185
00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.320
Know, right right right?

186
00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.480
Is there a favorite recording you that if you know,

187
00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:25.240
favorite album that you came out with.

188
00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:30.480
All there may be tough, top three or four, I

189
00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:36.919
don't know. It's hard. It's hard because I'm each I

190
00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:38.720
like them. I like a lot of them. I like

191
00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:40.159
most of them that it made.

192
00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:41.320
Yeah, gotcha?

193
00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:45.120
Yeah, you said is the best way to listen to

194
00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:47.279
your stuff? Then on band camp you were saying, if

195
00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:47.960
people want.

196
00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:50.399
You these days, you know, here in the modern world,

197
00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.639
I put my back catalog on band camp, you know,

198
00:12:55.759 --> 00:12:58.519
like I mean, that's sort of the thing to do now.

199
00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:03.120
It's the only place you can well, it walks the

200
00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:07.159
line where people can listen to it for free three

201
00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:12.240
times and then be asked to pay, and you can

202
00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.200
name your own price. You know. It's not like other

203
00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:19.679
streaming services where you get one ten billionth of a

204
00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:27.039
cent per play. It's and for my music because it's

205
00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:30.320
old style music now, even though actually I'm still probably

206
00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:34.000
head of where music is now. But for me, it's

207
00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:39.080
old style music. You know, only old people buy CDs

208
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.799
and things. So I'm like, I'm good with that. I

209
00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.960
have like an old audience that I have to satisfy

210
00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:46.600
a little bit.

211
00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:50.679
That's awesome. That's yeah, that's really cool.

212
00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:56.960
In the book the Oregon Bigfoot Highway, of course, you're

213
00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:01.559
part of that group, the Clackamis. I knew I was

214
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:07.679
gonna mess it. Sasquatchian's right. In your bio. It's reference

215
00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:12.600
that you were raised in northern New Jersey. Do you

216
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:17.240
have any interesting It's also mentioned the Pine Barrens, which

217
00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:19.799
I'm from the East Coast originally, and I know a

218
00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:23.799
lot of weird stuff happens in the pine barrens. Did

219
00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:27.559
you ever have any weird stuff happened that or did

220
00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:30.000
you go hiking in the Pine barrens or anything like that, or.

221
00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.879
I like lived in the Pine Bearns after a while,

222
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.480
I was about the only place in New Jersey I

223
00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:44.279
wanted to be. But no, no, you know, oddly enough,

224
00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:50.120
I met people who took their experiences that were really cool,

225
00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:54.039
but nothing, you know for me, No, I didn't have

226
00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:57.600
any anything weird. And I went to the other weird

227
00:14:57.639 --> 00:14:59.840
place in New Jersey, the Ramapo Mountains.

228
00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:02.759
Oh, tell me about the Ramapel Mountains.

229
00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:07.120
Well, that's on the northwest corner and there's it's similar

230
00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:11.320
to the Pine Barrens. You know, the Pineys live in

231
00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:16.879
the Pine Barrens right right. The Jackson Whites live in

232
00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.080
the Ramapo Mountains, and they too are kind of a

233
00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:28.000
remnant Indian tribe, Tuscarora Indians. Hessian soldiers. Wow, you know

234
00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:31.799
some British that were escaping New York City, some Dutch

235
00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.360
and then they went up there in the Ramapo Mountains

236
00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.840
and got isolated for one hundred and fifty years since

237
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:42.039
the Revolutionary War basically, which is what happened to the

238
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:43.360
Pineys and the pine Barons.

239
00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:47.279
Big for society will be right back after these messages.

240
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:08.080
So it's the same kind of super creepy, creepy zone.

241
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:14.200
And you know it's got banjo's playing and it's deliverance.

242
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:20.480
Oh no, it's in New Jersey, you know. So I

243
00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:22.639
love that about New Jersey. You know, it's got the

244
00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.399
hood and then rich people and then like the Jackson

245
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:29.720
Whites and then food. You're like, man, where am I?

246
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:32.000
You know, it's it's very interesting.

247
00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:35.960
I'm gonna have to uh to look up that area more,

248
00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:38.080
the Ramapo Mountain area.

249
00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:40.000
That sounds that I'm gonna have to look.

250
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.039
Into that because most people when they think of New

251
00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:45.639
Jersey and Pine Barns are thinking of like the Jersey Devil.

252
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:47.399
You know, that's that's what they're bringing up.

253
00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.440
But well, that's certainly one of the big stories down there.

254
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:54.320
You know, that is definitely probably the main story, right,

255
00:16:54.960 --> 00:17:00.159
But there's a lot of sasquat sightings oh yeah, you know,

256
00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:07.160
and find up in like up alongit Pennsylvania New York

257
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:08.559
border corner.

258
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:15.359
There no doubt, no doubt about it. I'd like to

259
00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:16.920
talk about So.

260
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:25.319
Let's start talking about what brought you into your into

261
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:27.799
big Foot in the early nineties. And I know that

262
00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:31.720
it has something to do with an experience at Scuokam

263
00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:32.960
Lake in ninety three.

264
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:34.920
Correct, that was the.

265
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:37.680
Very first one. Yeah, that's what suck me in a

266
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:41.599
big time that led to today.

267
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:42.640
Wow.

268
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:56.480
I I had an idea that the sasquatch thing was

269
00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:01.000
secondary the very first day because what I was doing

270
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:07.519
was I I had moved to a place called Linton,

271
00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:10.960
which is a neighborhood in Portland, Oregon. And if you

272
00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:14.559
know Portland, Oregon, it's this strange little neighborhood and the

273
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:19.400
very very northwest tip of Portland along the river, right

274
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.839
on the river bank, and it's far away from all

275
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.200
the rest of Portland. It's just like a little finger

276
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.039
that sticks out along the river and goes way up

277
00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:33.799
along the river. And so I was looking into the

278
00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:37.720
history of where I lived, and I saw that a

279
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:42.319
chief Chinnook chief named Casino had his winter camp there

280
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:46.960
and that's why it was there, you know. And I

281
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:49.200
was like, well, well, you know, this is Chief Casinos thing.

282
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:54.039
And so then I started looking up the Indians that

283
00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.759
had lived in this winter camp, and I found a story,

284
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:03.240
the famous story to everybody sees. Paul Caine wrote in

285
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:10.200
I Forget Way to hold on Cat interference problem. Get down, Kitty,

286
00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:17.480
Get down, kitty. Okay, sorry, but the uh story basically

287
00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:21.720
was about schookums that lived up on Mount Saint Helens.

288
00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.519
He want he was a painter and he wanted an

289
00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:27.440
Indian guy to take him up to the top Mount

290
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:30.640
Saint Helens. And no Indian would do it because the

291
00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:35.079
Schookams lived there and they were cannibal hairy giants and

292
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:38.359
they lived at Spirit Lake up at the get Down,

293
00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:44.319
Kitty Kitty Get Down, and so I said, wow, you know,

294
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:47.400
that's really fascinating. And then I realized from reading this

295
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.839
story that it took place on the shore right in

296
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.960
front of my apartment in Linton, and I was like,

297
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:56.759
I was like, wow, you know that they were talking

298
00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:00.440
right here about this schookm that lived on op Amount

299
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:03.319
Saint Helens. So of course, at that time, which was

300
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:10.680
nineteen ninety three, everybody had heard stories about Sasquatch up

301
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.880
on Saint Helen's. I mean, that was kind of a

302
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:19.279
you know, the standard place. Everybody said they lived here.

303
00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:22.799
So I went, wow, you know this must be about Bigfoot,

304
00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.759
and that Skukums must be Bigfoot. That was my big insight.

305
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:31.880
So I found a place called Skukum Lake and I

306
00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:36.960
read about the history of the name, because Oregon has

307
00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:42.119
this great book that lays out the reasons for everything

308
00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:45.839
being named what it's named. So it's got a great

309
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:53.000
place name dictionary available, and in this dictionary it basically said, well,

310
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.519
it's called Skukum Lake because that's where the evil god

311
00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.960
of the woods lives. And I said to my wife,

312
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.319
or it was soon to be my wife, Well, we

313
00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:05.839
gotta go there camp, you know, we gotta check out

314
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:10.160
the evil Gut of the Woods still lives there. I'm like, hey,

315
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:12.720
I don't see if he still lives there, man, let's go.

316
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:16.680
So it was a joke, right, and went up there,

317
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:23.880
and before I got to Scoogam Lake, I ran into Bigfoot. Okay,

318
00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:28.480
when I was a quarter mile away, but I didn't

319
00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:32.279
see anything, but what I what happened and brief to me.

320
00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:37.160
The very first moment I ever went out, there was

321
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:42.440
a electric force field whacked into me. Made all my

322
00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:47.640
hair stand up on end. My wife immediately passed I'm

323
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:49.920
going to take a nap and just passed out on

324
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:56.000
the front seat next to me. My it was dead silent.

325
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.960
All the crickets stopped chirping and went dead silent.

326
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:07.240
Henry, are you still there? That's a little weird.

327
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:08.200
I'm back.

328
00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:11.880
That was really weird because right when you're telling that story,

329
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:15.160
I know, everything just wagged out.

330
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:15.640
Dude.

331
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.599
Yep, listen, let me tell you that they're listening. Man.

332
00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:29.359
Oh the thing is is that this my starter motor

333
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.400
was blown the force field that made my hair stand

334
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.640
up on end blee my starter motor, and we were

335
00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:42.200
marooned there and had to stay. And the smell went

336
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:46.079
away and the force field went away, and my wife

337
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:50.599
woke up all at the same time really like like

338
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.720
two three minutes later, Like it was like for three minutes,

339
00:22:55.079 --> 00:23:01.000
I'm like getting I feel static electricity, you know. And

340
00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:05.480
and so I said, wow, I don't know what but

341
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:10.400
bigfoot is, but that wet dog smell made me picture

342
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:14.599
in my mind a giant, hairy thing, you know, Like

343
00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.960
the smell was what gave my mind the picture that hey,

344
00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:23.119
this must be a big, hairy giant the bigfoot that

345
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.319
we all hear about all the time. Just power of

346
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:29.720
suggestion in a way, you know, But I mean it

347
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:37.000
was a strong suggestion. So I after that very first encounter,

348
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.559
I was like, well, that's what people call bigfoot, but

349
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:48.160
it's certainly not a wild animal. I said, I don't

350
00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:51.559
know what they think if they think that this is

351
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.680
some ape running around out here. But you know, no

352
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:57.559
ape has a force field and blows my starter motor

353
00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:01.240
and knocks my wife out and whole stick, you know.

354
00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:06.640
And the crickets seemed to know all about it, because

355
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:09.480
they just went quiet, and then when it left and

356
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:11.920
the smell left, they woke up again. You know. It

357
00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:15.720
was like the other animals were not so freaked out.

358
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.240
They were like That was my opinion at the time,

359
00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:22.240
was like it seemed to me that the crickets were

360
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:25.000
they we'll just shut up and then we'll start again.

361
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:28.839
Big deal, you know, right, But that being the very

362
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:34.680
first moment that I ever encounter Bigfoot. I didn't encounter Bigfoot,

363
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.079
but oh and I didn't see a damn thing either,

364
00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:42.960
but you know, there was nothing to see, right, So

365
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.400
this is what led me down the screwball road. A

366
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:58.960
month later, I went back and my wife and I

367
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.839
camped out and stayed up all night and I was like, Okay,

368
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.880
let's stay up all night and watch for Bigfoot. And

369
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:13.680
I was disappointed when instead of Bigfoot, a UFO came

370
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:18.720
out of the ground below me, and Okay, this ufo

371
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:23.000
take off in front of us. WHOA really yeah, really

372
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:27.200
close too, like we could see the details on the

373
00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:36.279
you know, construction. We it was. We were on the

374
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:41.400
top of Valley Ridge between two valleys, and it came

375
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:43.519
out of the bottom of one of the valleys and

376
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.880
rose up in front of us and then hovered in

377
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:50.079
front of us. So we got like this really good

378
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:54.079
twenty minute look at it. Well, it wasn't twenty minutes.

379
00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:55.119
It's maybe two.

380
00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:57.200
Minutes, but that's a lot of time.

381
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:02.920
It was a long time, yeah, And it was very

382
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:08.440
close to where the starter motor got blown out. You know,

383
00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:12.960
I was maybe a quarter mile from that spot less

384
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:15.079
you know, I was right, I was in the near

385
00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:19.759
the same spot. And then it got super strange in

386
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:24.839
the morning because we went down to see where this

387
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:27.000
thing came out of the ground, because we could see

388
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.759
exactly where it came out of the ground, and we

389
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.519
checked these landmarks and we had all these things, and

390
00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:36.279
we said, okay, so if we get to this spot

391
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:38.720
where these trees are, you know, it's right over there.

392
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:42.640
So we drove around logging roads to go there. And

393
00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:47.759
what we got there in front of us was a

394
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:53.039
government suv with two men in black and a woman

395
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:56.559
in red. A woman in red and the two men

396
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:01.839
in black started walking towards us. Looked just like the

397
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:08.200
classic cliche. They had sunglasses, tall and thin, walked awkward

398
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:13.680
white shirts, shiny black shoes. It was like, uh oh,

399
00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:16.039
and so I looked at my wife, who didn't know

400
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:19.960
anything about the men in black, and I said, hey,

401
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:21.799
those are the men in black. We got to get

402
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:28.519
out of here. And I said, okay. You know, I

403
00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:32.319
was like, man, so I I threw it in reverse

404
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:35.519
and I just like jammed out of there. You know,

405
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:38.440
I had my fan. I just like went on the

406
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:45.039
gravel and just took off. So since those three things

407
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:49.119
happened basically in the same spot in the cascades of Ward,

408
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:53.240
and the first month I ever looked for Bigfoot, like

409
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:56.200
the very first month I ever looked for Bigfoot, I

410
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.559
was like, wait a minute, what the hell was going on? Honestly,

411
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:06.759
what is going on? You know? So wow, I had

412
00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:09.759
a problem because every time I told people that story

413
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:10.960
what I just told.

414
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:12.759
You, Yeah, nobody believed me.

415
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:16.759
Nobody believed me at all. Everybody would tell me to

416
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:20.160
you know, don't tell that story. Don't tell people that.

417
00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:22.799
I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry it happened to me.

418
00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:24.559
Sorry, I do tell that story.

419
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:28.240
That's an amazing story, Henry, I love that was.

420
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:32.279
That was my first month of looking for Bigfoot.

421
00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:34.480
First month, Holy Macren.

422
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:39.599
The very first month nineteen ninety three, August first, nineteen

423
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:42.799
ninety three was the first date. September one, nineteen ninety

424
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:47.000
three was the second date. And I will those dates

425
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:50.720
are exed in my mind because that's what sucked me

426
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:56.079
into Bigfoot completely, where I went, Wow, whatever's going on,

427
00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:02.160
it's really it's deep, man, Whatever whatever is really going

428
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:06.200
on around here, it's deep. That's all I can say.

429
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:09.119
So if I was to if I was to ask.

430
00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:14.640
Either of you at that time, you both would be

431
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.759
in agreed that yeah, you both saw a UFO.

432
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:23.319
Yeah, because you know, that was part of why we

433
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:25.799
knew it was real. Because the thing is is that

434
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:31.680
at the moment we saw it, we saw it right.

435
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:36.319
And it came up and it was dead silent, and

436
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:42.920
it was silver glowing white for most of it, and

437
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:45.240
then down at the end like an ice cream cone,

438
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:49.640
it had an orange half ball and the orange half

439
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:56.359
ball suddenly glowed a lot brighter and went and my

440
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:01.000
wife said, Jado Genesis did take both, you know. She said, wow,

441
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:02.720
it looks like Jada like it looked like it was

442
00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:08.440
getting ready to okay, yeah, and then it did. It

443
00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:11.599
just squirted way up into the sky RIGHTO. And so

444
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:17.920
right after that happened the weird reaction that your mind has.

445
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:20.680
And both my wife and I had the same reaction,

446
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:25.160
which is you just pretend it didn't happen.

447
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:29.079
Big society will be right back after these messages.

448
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:49.559
Like suddenly you're like, I didn't see that. No, that

449
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:53.640
didn't happen. Your brain down, it's just like, I don't know,

450
00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:55.720
I didn't see that. But then my wife said this

451
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:59.359
one thing. She said it was near and then it

452
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:04.839
was far, and for some reason that triggered the whole

453
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:09.000
memory and we both went, Wow, we just saw UFO

454
00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:12.039
right in front of us come out of the ground.

455
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:13.599
That's amazing.

456
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.400
Have there been sightings in that same area that you've

457
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:20.599
heard of or similar things over the years after that

458
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:22.400
or yeah?

459
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:28.759
See after that, I myself had my own little network

460
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:33.839
of Boy Scouts, okay, that I would in the summertime.

461
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.880
I would always talk to the camp at the Boy

462
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.359
Scout camp there, and I'd always go, keep your eyes

463
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:45.000
out for orange balls, man, keep an eye on And

464
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:49.880
so they would tell me things, you know, after the summer.

465
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:52.759
At the end of the summer, for like ninety four

466
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:57.079
or five six in there, for the next three years,

467
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:04.359
I'd get reports from all these kids because I well,

468
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.079
that was when ray Crow had the bookstore, he had

469
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:09.000
the Western Bigfoot Society books.

470
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:10.359
Yeah, so totally.

471
00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:13.119
I would meet these kids at the Western Bigfoot Society

472
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:15.920
and then I'd recruit them in my Hey keep an

473
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.319
eye on look out for orange balls up there, man,

474
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.519
I knew a lot of and then I went back

475
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:28.160
many times. Up until ninety six, you could drive up

476
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.319
to scook them lake. But after the flood of ninety

477
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:33.279
six all access was cut off. You have to hire

478
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:37.200
sixteen miles down to get there really up hill. Yeah,

479
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:44.400
so it's way more inaccessible post ninety six, But up

480
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:50.160
until ninety six, Yeah, I had like a lot. I

481
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:53.480
saw orange balls up there a bunch of times. I

482
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:59.240
had more encounters with Bigfoot up there and never saw one,

483
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:07.200
but definitely interacted. I had to think, well, things would

484
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:14.160
happen like this where I was driving up there once

485
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:17.039
again in my van with my wife and the passenger seat,

486
00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:24.680
and suddenly in my right ear, I heard like somebody

487
00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:26.960
was trying to get my attention. So I turned towards

488
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.599
my wife like she was doing it, but at that

489
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:35.160
exact millisecond she was turning towards me because someone went

490
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:38.680
in her ear and she said, and we both said

491
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:42.839
what to each other at the exact same instant, and

492
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:45.960
then we both freaked out because we realized that someone

493
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:50.480
was playing with us telepathically and we were in a

494
00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:58.279
van with closed windows, so that kind of thing happened.

495
00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:01.319
That was maybe a mile from Skook, like okay, so

496
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:05.920
and that was maybe spring of ninety four, you know,

497
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:10.280
like a little later. But yeah, over time, I've had

498
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:16.960
so many experiences that are that's how it started for me. No,

499
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:21.079
The thing is is that, yeah, yeah, I mean I

500
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:28.119
had a today. I've had like twenty five encounters or something,

501
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:32.880
but I don't count them. I don't even think about it.

502
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:34.679
It's different now for me.

503
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.519
And when you say so you're having you know, when

504
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:42.480
you're going certain places, things are are happening to you

505
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:47.800
from an outside force of some of some sorts.

506
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:54.239
That's an interesting term inside or outside you know.

507
00:34:54.320 --> 00:35:01.119
Yeah, that's yeah, I don't know, Yeah, it's people.

508
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:05.559
If you're new to all this, I really really suggest

509
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:10.000
that you go over to Amazon and you look up

510
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.920
Henry for Aanzoni and you you read his book because

511
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:20.000
it's really interesting. It's available as I think it's available

512
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:21.039
in a few different formats.

513
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:22.440
But it's very interesting read.

514
00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:26.880
And also it's a great resource as well because Henry

515
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:31.000
makes all these incredible maps of all across North America

516
00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:35.400
that have to do with different names like Scookum, Spirit Lake,

517
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.719
all sorts of you know, monkey related things. Is this

518
00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:45.320
very interesting. I don't think there's any other resource that

519
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:49.159
has done that to the extent that that Henry did,

520
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:51.159
So it's a it's a good resource to have at

521
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:52.840
your disposal as well. I want to make sure I

522
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:56.039
get that little plug in there for the book. It's

523
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:57.559
it's really quite good.

524
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:05.039
I'm going to have to do an anti plug Okay, alright.

525
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:09.599
When I wrote that book, it was the best I

526
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:13.320
could do at the time. Looking back at it today,

527
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:16.960
I'm like, it's ninety five percent.

528
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:19.119
Correct, okay, but five.

529
00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:21.960
Totally wrong.

530
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:27.199
Okay, all right, I mean the map part is solid though, right.

531
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:34.920
Yeah, Well that was basically an extension of the story

532
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:38.719
I just told you about figuring out schook them Like.

533
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:42.920
I ran with that idea and found every schook them

534
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:48.639
anything anywhere. And then I went beyond that and found

535
00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:53.400
all the words I could find in English or in

536
00:36:54.559 --> 00:37:01.639
various say hapten or sailish or Chinook or whatever, And uh,

537
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:04.639
I ran with that idea to like an absurd degree

538
00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:08.159
where I tried to make a database of four thousand

539
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:12.679
spots that had been named for something like that. But

540
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:22.239
you know, it's an interesting experiment because one can look

541
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:25.599
at place names just like sighting reports. They're almost the

542
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:28.880
exact same thing. When you get a siting report, you

543
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.599
don't really know if it's true or not true, or

544
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:34.960
if it's a hoax or not right, and very much

545
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:39.360
with a place name. If it's named Bigfoot Springs, you go, well,

546
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:42.719
maybe it's name because somebody saw a bigfoot there. Maybe

547
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:45.880
it's named as a joke and it's a hoax or

548
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:49.360
this or that, or it's marketing or sales or you

549
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:52.559
know that kind of thing. So you don't get much

550
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:54.920
more than a sighting report with the place name. But

551
00:37:55.800 --> 00:38:01.719
it's a clean data set because it's pre any media

552
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:05.760
mention of bigfoot or sasquatch or anything. These place names

553
00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:09.119
got laid down a long time ago, so you're looking

554
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:14.960
at an interesting data sets. That's what I really thought

555
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.800
what people would find interesting in that book, and I

556
00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:20.440
guess it still holds. Yeah, And I didn't like the

557
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:22.559
maps people made so I was like, man, you can

558
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:23.639
make better maps in that.

559
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:26.559
There you go, Yeah, they're good, they're good. What was

560
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:28.440
what's the five percent that you would change?

561
00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:34.199
I didn't really understand the physics of how Bigfoot does

562
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:38.920
what Bigfoot does. I didn't even understand what Bigfoot was

563
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:42.719
at all, and I didn't understand what I was. And

564
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:49.039
so that gives you a big sort of room for error. Yeah, sure,

565
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:54.119
there's plenty of error room there because I have I

566
00:38:54.159 --> 00:39:00.800
have a much better theory of how it all works now,

567
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:04.480
and and I didn't have that before. I didn't really

568
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:08.519
I didn't really understand how they could do what they

569
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:11.559
do well, how the stories I'm just telling you, I

570
00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:13.920
didn't really understand how I could get hit by a

571
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:18.440
force field that bloom my starter motor and telepathically somebody could,

572
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:24.039
you know, talk to my ear, you know. I But

573
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:26.440
now I have a sense of how that might work,

574
00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:30.159
you know. So it's different, and it's awesome. I wrote

575
00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:32.360
that book before I had that sense of how it

576
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:34.960
might work. So that's what's different.

577
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.519
So is then, is that a thing where there might

578
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:40.159
be like a follow up book where you kind of

579
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:41.960
set something straight or.

580
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:44.599
That's what I'm doing okay.

581
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:49.639
Regard me cat interference here, no problem, you got to

582
00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:54.559
get down, yeah, okay, okay, here we go. Yes, well

583
00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:01.440
you know yeah, video, Yes, welcome it.

584
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:03.920
It's awesome. I love it.

585
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.360
The cat thing. Yes, that one of the things I'm

586
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:13.440
doing in this. I'm just sure I have everything that

587
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:17.280
I want to say, but it's not organized right. So

588
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:20.920
I'm almost there, damn it. I've been struggling with it

589
00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:26.679
for years, honestly. Well, I had to wait for the

590
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:30.760
right time. There's a lot of a lot of things

591
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:37.039
that I had to I had to wait before they

592
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:40.559
could you could talk about them. And I'm surprised. But

593
00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:43.119
it's okay to talk about him now. And I got

594
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:45.079
the word, so it's okay.

595
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:48.599
Well, plenty of people that will be waiting for that,

596
00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:51.559
that follow up to come out. Just see you're aware

597
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:55.480
of that before we There's one thing I want to

598
00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:58.480
circle back on. So you said that you were having

599
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:02.079
a lot of boy scouts bring reports to you. Did

600
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:04.800
do you have that stuff written down? Is that like

601
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:07.880
old records that no, you don't have anymore. Okay, they're

602
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:08.840
just curious.

603
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:17.280
What once I did, Because once upon a time I

604
00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:21.679
assembled a database for the Bigfoot Research Project of four

605
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:25.880
hundred and eighty five sighting reports in Oregon and Washington. Sure,

606
00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:29.760
and I helped them put it together. And we you know,

607
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:32.880
back in the day, back in ninety three to ninety eight,

608
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:41.000
we had employees who would go out and see what

609
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:43.800
they could learn, you know, because almost all the sighting

610
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:47.239
reports we got were so old that, you know, the

611
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:51.440
witnesses weren't alive anymore. But whatever we could learn from

612
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:54.119
going to the site, we learned. And we we did

613
00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:59.760
GPS coordinates everywhere. We made a database. Yeah, I have

614
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:06.480
all of that once as a very valuable thing. But

615
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:12.880
then I gave all of the questionnaires that we made

616
00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:19.360
people answer to Autumn Williams in like the year two thousand, okay,

617
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:23.840
maybe nineteen ninety nine. I thought she would be a

618
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:28.159
good inheritor of all of that material. So I dumped.

619
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:31.760
At that point, my wife was nagging me about the

620
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:35.559
boxes in my closet and saying, what are you gonna

621
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:38.639
do with that here? And I was like, yeah, screw it,

622
00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:40.599
you know, get rid of all that bigfoot stuff. So

623
00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:44.360
I got rid of my all my Bigfoot artifacts. Oh wow,

624
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:49.719
d And I courged myself in the year two thousand

625
00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:54.639
of all my casts, hair samples, photo, everything. I was

626
00:42:54.719 --> 00:43:00.639
just like people. So, you know, I had a real

627
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:07.159
epiphany of hatred and well, not really, but I was

628
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:10.599
pretty sick of how mean everybody was in the Bigfoot

629
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:15.639
world and the whole you know, tenor and arguments and

630
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:18.440
you know, the Bigfoot scene. I was just sick of it.

631
00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:26.280
But yeah, I had this thing where I I got

632
00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:29.719
rid of everything, and then by two thousand and eight

633
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:35.639
I had so accumulated so much more stuff. Anyhow, Yeah,

634
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:38.880
that I wrote that book, you know, and I was like, well, jeez,

635
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:40.559
I might as well write a book, because you know,

636
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:42.599
I got all this new stuff since I got rid

637
00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:47.239
of them. And that's kind of what happened again in

638
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:51.679
that I was going back and looking and going, gee,

639
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:55.039
I don't have any of that stuff anymore, and no,

640
00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:57.840
I have all new stuff again, and I'm like, no, no,

641
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:04.440
moving on. Yeah, I'm not going to be so rash anymore.

642
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:06.960
It was foolish for me to throw all that stuff away.

643
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:12.119
I should have kept it. Cliff Berrickman gave me a

644
00:44:12.199 --> 00:44:15.719
single cast to start my collection again.

645
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:17.559
Oh that's so nice.

646
00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:23.480
Yes, yes, so I have one cast now to begin

647
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:31.159
over with the But for me, that end of the

648
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:34.960
phenomenon was never the interesting end. I was much more

649
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:42.679
interested in civilization. Let us say, you know, I was

650
00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:47.880
much more interested in how Western civilization views it, how

651
00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:52.360
all the other cultures view this phenomenon, and how they

652
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:56.880
differ radically. And I'm very interested in the physics of

653
00:44:56.920 --> 00:44:59.960
how bickfoot turns it visible and does all this stuff.

654
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:06.800
And so I'm really like an engineer and a well

655
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:11.760
I've worked. I'm a warrior for the tribes, a contract

656
00:45:11.800 --> 00:45:20.559
warrior for the tribes. I've found well in a sentence

657
00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:31.199
or two. For me, Bigfoot seemed to be the caretaker

658
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:36.639
of all the other animal species, including Bigfoot seems to

659
00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:43.760
have a caretaker role in nature. And I became a.

660
00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:46.800
True conservatory big for society. Who will be right back

661
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:47.920
after these messages.

662
00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:09.679
I wanted to become a true conservationist in part because

663
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:13.960
I kind of sensed it. That's what Bigfoot was, that

664
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:18.239
Bigfoot was a true conservationist in its own way. And

665
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:21.159
that may not be the thing that strikes other people,

666
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:23.159
you know, when they go looking for Bigfoot, they go,

667
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:27.920
whoa man, you know whatever, But for me, that's what

668
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:34.039
struck me, and it turned into career of doing conservation

669
00:46:34.119 --> 00:46:38.280
work for the tribes. So my interest in bigfoot just

670
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:42.960
sort of naturally led right there because because that's what

671
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:46.119
I saw when I went looking for bigfoot is the

672
00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:53.719
whole question of what is their role in nature? I mean,

673
00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:59.000
we're people, right, and there's animals, but what is their function?

674
00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:04.599
You know? So that became like that was the important

675
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:08.760
question to me, what's the function of bigfoot in nature? Like,

676
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:11.639
I mean, what are they doing here? Right? They're obviously

677
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:14.599
I didn't have a problem with they exist or not

678
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:18.639
right right from the first second, I was like, well,

679
00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:23.599
something exists and it ain't an animal, And so I

680
00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:31.440
thought the caretaker thing was what really struck me. They

681
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:35.559
just struck me as caretakers. And then of course I

682
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:40.800
read a lot of other culture's views of Bigfoot that

683
00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:45.239
in the years since have really confirmed that for me,

684
00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:49.119
that a lot of other cultures see Bigfoot as a

685
00:47:49.159 --> 00:47:54.440
protector and as a person a type of person, but

686
00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:59.960
as a protector of the tribes. They're seen as you know,

687
00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:05.280
it looks. It appears to me that I wasn't too

688
00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:10.880
far off in my guests about them being caretakers. Western

689
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:15.440
civilization may not know that, but many other cultures too.

690
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:20.679
It's it's it's very it's very interesting, and I'll be

691
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:26.280
super interested to see how you're what what else you

692
00:48:26.360 --> 00:48:30.039
have learned over the years. You know, when that that

693
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:34.599
follow up is able to be trying to get, it's

694
00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:38.480
going to be awesome. I'm hoping, Oh wow, I can

695
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:39.840
do it. I'm just trying.

696
00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:40.880
That's awesome.

697
00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:45.199
Really, I'm really I've been talking about it a long time.

698
00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:48.280
German people crazy because I've never finished it.

699
00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:49.239
It is so weird that I.

700
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.480
Was reading a book on Shasta Mount Shasta, the Folklore

701
00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:57.880
and Legends of It by D. W. Naff I believe

702
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:01.800
his name, and You're you're called out pretty good in it, Henry,

703
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:06.679
You're the stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, it's you're referenced in it.

704
00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:07.679
It's very interesting.

705
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:09.800
I was like, I was just I'm reading this at

706
00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:10.360
the same time.

707
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:13.159
This is weird, but yeah, when he's talking about a

708
00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:18.440
different Native American things around the Shasta area.

709
00:49:18.519 --> 00:49:19.800
So it's it's very cool.

710
00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.599
I was really fascinated with that subject of all the

711
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:30.320
Native American spirit animals, for lack of a better term,

712
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:39.639
or the spirits that the Native Americans communicate with that

713
00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:42.840
that's the topic that's really interesting to me. And Bigfoot

714
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:45.159
is one of those spirits, by the way.

715
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:47.480
So you you you're.

716
00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:53.519
So you view Bigfoot as like a spirit slash spirit

717
00:49:53.559 --> 00:49:57.800
animal or more of like a type of spirit, or

718
00:49:58.280 --> 00:49:58.920
I know it's a.

719
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:03.360
I would say a huge my point of view, Bigfoot

720
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:08.199
is both okay, Bigfoot is animal flesh and blood and

721
00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:13.679
also has puzzling powers that lend it to being a

722
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:18.159
spirit as well. But it's no different than you or I,

723
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:22.880
And now I understand much more of how it all works.

724
00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:28.800
We are the same in our construction. Also very interesting,

725
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:32.719
Yes we are. We are clearly related.

726
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:39.599
M gotcha. I want to rewind a little bit.

727
00:50:39.719 --> 00:50:46.039
Let's go back to ninety three and reading in your book.

728
00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:49.199
There's a part where you talk about becoming a member

729
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:52.880
of the board of advisors for the Bigfoot research project

730
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:57.400
headed by Peter Burn. And so I'm just how you know,

731
00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:01.000
we've got the the the thing that happened to you

732
00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:04.800
and your wife? How does that like, how do you

733
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:07.960
meet Peter Burn? What's that connection there? How did that

734
00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:10.840
all start? Because that's quite the connection to.

735
00:51:10.840 --> 00:51:16.599
Get that's that's that's how okay, the way it happened?

736
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:23.360
Was that happened to me? August first? Okay, so August second,

737
00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:27.719
I went to that bookstore. I remember seeing the bigfoot

738
00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:31.159
in the window, and it was ray Crow in the

739
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:35.400
Western Bigfoot Society, but over in the Saint John's neighborhood.

740
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:38.280
And yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember this.

741
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:41.440
I remember this bookstore. And my wife and I were like, yeah,

742
00:51:41.480 --> 00:51:43.880
I remember that bookstore that we always see. Yeah, let's go,

743
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:46.559
let's go see what's going on. So I went in

744
00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:49.000
there and I introduced myself to ray Crow and I

745
00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:51.960
told that story to ray Crow like my wife and

746
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:55.480
I did for some reason, because I don't know what

747
00:51:56.440 --> 00:52:03.119
He and Peter Burn had just moved to Hood River

748
00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:06.599
where Parkdale technically where he was setting up the Bigfoot

749
00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:10.599
research project, and and ray Crow was like at that moment,

750
00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:13.039
he was like, well, I should tell Peter Burn any

751
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:19.519
Bigfoot sighting reports, you know. And it's like, well, Peter,

752
00:52:19.639 --> 00:52:22.400
you know, this guy's in my bookstore, and he just

753
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:28.119
you know, told me the story. So moments later I

754
00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:37.199
met Peter Burn, you know, like and then it uh,

755
00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:39.920
it just one thing led to another, you know. I

756
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:45.440
was just I was so he captured my imagination mascot

757
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:51.360
and his jungle hat, and really, I mean I was.

758
00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:56.880
I was like, wow, this is awesome, you know, and

759
00:52:56.880 --> 00:53:03.519
and then I'm like A useful I don't know, I'm useful.

760
00:53:04.360 --> 00:53:11.280
So but in a short time, I had uh made

761
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:15.000
a I had made websites for Western Bigfoot Society Bigfoot

762
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:22.599
Research project, Ron Moorehead, Patty Patterson, Roger's wife, and Renee

763
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.920
de Hinden. And I made all these websites because I

764
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:28.360
was a computer teak, right, and so I was like, well,

765
00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:32.119
I can help you Peter with your Bigfoot research project.

766
00:53:32.199 --> 00:53:34.599
I know all about I'm good with the computers, man.

767
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:37.119
So I did all and then I did all this

768
00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:39.440
gis work for him, and then I did all these

769
00:53:39.519 --> 00:53:42.559
databases that we're talking about, and you know, and I

770
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:44.679
was like, yeah, yeah, man, I can help you do this. Ship.

771
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:49.400
So then he invited me to be on Board of

772
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.280
Advisors like a couple of months later, and I gotcha.

773
00:53:53.320 --> 00:54:00.679
I was a a and there I was till the

774
00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:04.719
very end, until the bitter end, until the bitter end

775
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:09.599
is but he helped me get into this thing really well.

776
00:54:10.719 --> 00:54:16.000
He vis a vis what we were talking about before, right,

777
00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:20.679
He bought me a CD of the Genus Database of

778
00:54:20.719 --> 00:54:25.159
the Geographical Names Information System. Of course, this was the

779
00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:29.000
beginning of the Internet and it wasn't yet online today

780
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:31.639
is just a website, but back then it was a

781
00:54:31.639 --> 00:54:35.440
CD that you had to buy, and Peter Burn bought

782
00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:38.599
that for me to help me get totally into the

783
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:41.599
place name things. So like he encouraged me like that,

784
00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:45.880
and that helped me, you know, just get sucked. And

785
00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:50.280
then I then when Jeff Glickman came in and took over,

786
00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:56.000
I still hung around and helped him write, you know,

787
00:54:56.400 --> 00:55:03.480
his book, his Great Paper of nineteen ninet towards a

788
00:55:03.559 --> 00:55:11.119
resolution of the Bigfoot phenomenon. And I just like in

789
00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:15.159
that paper, actually you'll see, pardon me, a lot of

790
00:55:15.159 --> 00:55:17.760
my early place name stuff where I'm like, wow, and

791
00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:19.800
I look, I looked for this name and I found

792
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:23.159
it right, So you know, I mean, I was all

793
00:55:23.639 --> 00:55:28.920
it was so semi scientific, but the basic idea was

794
00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:35.639
was a sound idea, as it turned out, because I

795
00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:39.559
went to a lot of those places and had encounters.

796
00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:43.719
That's awesome. It's so so cool.

797
00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:53.440
Because so the website thing. So I'm a computer guy

798
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:56.480
and I just found that fascinating that you were the

799
00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:00.559
guy in the mid nineties that was making the websites

800
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:03.039
for these guys, like is so listed in your book.

801
00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:06.599
It's like, you know, Peter Burn Renee a hind In moneymaker,

802
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:13.119
Chris Murphy, Ray Crow, Ron Moorehead and that that's just man,

803
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:16.920
that's awesome. Like and also so also you made the

804
00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:19.119
website for Patty Patterson too.

805
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:22.960
Well, we made one, but she didn't ever wanted to

806
00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:24.920
go live and then we killed it, you know, but

807
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:32.960
she she made one because we had a relationship. The well,

808
00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:34.960
there was a lot of good that came out of

809
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:40.039
that period. And Okay, one of the things Peter Burn

810
00:56:41.480 --> 00:56:45.440
is the best at is raising money. Peter Burn had

811
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:49.039
more money to look for Bigfoot than anybody and could

812
00:56:49.639 --> 00:56:56.119
obtain capital, and so other bigfoot researchers really resented him

813
00:56:56.400 --> 00:57:03.639
for that because you know that ask got it worked.

814
00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:08.079
What was it the money to pay Patty Patterson twenty

815
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:14.760
thousand dollars digitize the Patterson film from her copy, from

816
00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:18.800
her copy which is the only it's the it's not

817
00:57:18.920 --> 00:57:22.599
the original, it's the first copy, and she has it

818
00:57:22.639 --> 00:57:26.119
in a bank vall and by giving her twenty grand,

819
00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:31.599
she let us digitize all nine hundred and fifty two frames,

820
00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:36.760
that's awesome. To Hindon, Peter Burn raised the money to

821
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:41.559
pay him twenty grand so we could use something like

822
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:46.079
thirty seven of his still photos. Because the Hindon owns

823
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:50.880
the still rights to the Patterson film, right, Patty owns

824
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:55.840
the motion rights. So the Hinden we paid twenty grand

825
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:59.159
to to use these in towards the resolution of the

826
00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:03.000
Bigfoot phenomenon, and Glickman I think ended up only using

827
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:07.760
about fifteen sixteen frames from the film. But to Hinden

828
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:12.760
was really anti scientist, and so he refused to let

829
00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:18.159
it be published in a scientific journal that was written

830
00:58:18.199 --> 00:58:23.159
into the contract. It was absolutely really yep, you know,

831
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:27.119
like he Hindon, really, you know, that's an interesting The

832
00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:30.679
thing about Bigfoot is the intersection of commerce and science

833
00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:36.000
and whack of doodles and everything else. It's really it's

834
00:58:36.039 --> 00:58:37.519
an interesting problem, man.

835
00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:40.440
You know, really, that's so intense.

836
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:44.159
You went from zero to sixty literally in the way

837
00:58:44.199 --> 00:58:47.199
that you went from having this encounter and then you're

838
00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:50.559
just thrown into the crazy stuff with like Peter Burn

839
00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:52.920
and Renee to Hinden and.

840
00:58:55.119 --> 00:58:57.360
Yeah, you actually met Renee.

841
00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:01.960
Renee was a good friend, okay of all those of

842
00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:06.079
all those people, I've met them all really, yeah, well,

843
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:10.239
I mean Grover and John Green and Renee and yeah,

844
00:59:10.280 --> 00:59:14.400
I mean, you know, yeah, I knew them all. But

845
00:59:14.440 --> 00:59:18.639
Renee was a friend. Renee and I became friends because,

846
00:59:19.360 --> 00:59:23.639
in my opinion, Renee was he was the smartest of

847
00:59:23.679 --> 00:59:26.280
all those guys, in my opinion. But that just you know,

848
00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:29.760
that's just what I think. I liked him the best, whatever,

849
00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:31.840
I liked him the best. He was the most fun.

850
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:36.719
So you just sit around at the gun club drinking

851
00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:40.800
with Renee, telling Bigfoot stories, leading them and it was

852
00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:44.239
a lot more fun than you know, that is a lowesomer.

853
00:59:47.079 --> 00:59:50.559
So you were actually hanging out with Renee like like

854
00:59:50.920 --> 00:59:54.199
you're like hanging out like blood Yeah.

855
00:59:54.119 --> 00:59:59.760
The last three four years of his life wowne. Yeah,

856
01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:04.519
because you know, I was not the typical coop. I

857
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:09.519
mean I helped put twenty grand in his pocket, so

858
01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:17.599
I was obviously not, you know, easy to dismiss as

859
01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:22.599
a woo woo guy. Right, Well, they didn't dismiss me. Really.

860
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:26.280
That's the thing is, in the end, those guys were

861
01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:30.400
slightly more open minded than you would expend. I have

862
01:00:32.159 --> 01:00:35.800
told variations of you know, bigfoots of spirit and the

863
01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:40.719
flesh and blood animal combined. I've told variations of that.

864
01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:44.159
It's just now I understand how how it works a

865
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:47.360
little better. And it's like they are both. We're both.

866
01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:50.360
Everything is both. Don't worry you know it really is.

867
01:00:51.199 --> 01:00:57.159
It's the difference. It's soul and physical body. Right. Are

868
01:00:57.199 --> 01:01:00.800
there physics yet that described the soul? No religion that

869
01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:04.840
describes sure, but I'm talking hard physics.

870
01:01:05.639 --> 01:01:08.960
Big for society will be right back after these messages.

871
01:01:24.519 --> 01:01:31.280
You know. That's what That's what helps. When you understand

872
01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:34.920
the physics of your soul, it is much easier to

873
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:38.239
understand Bigfoot. That's what I'll say.

874
01:01:38.719 --> 01:01:43.199
That's a. That's a. That is an intense statement right there.

875
01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:44.719
I like that. Yeah, I like that.

876
01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:45.039
Man.

877
01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:50.079
That's that's good. That's good from from the years of talking.

878
01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:51.679
You know, you said you were able to talk to

879
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:55.360
Renee over a few years. You are there any conversations

880
01:01:55.360 --> 01:01:59.559
about Bigfoot that that you can still remember anything you

881
01:01:59.599 --> 01:02:04.280
know on that that stands out in your your memories or.

882
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:14.400
Oh yes, yes, there's well it's pretty hysterical. But yeah.

883
01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:19.599
Now the strange thing you know, for me, Renee, would

884
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:31.239
we'd talk about everything, right, Bigfoot everything. He thought there

885
01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:35.400
was some kind of mental aspect to it. That's what

886
01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:40.719
he used to say when he was drunk enough and

887
01:02:40.760 --> 01:02:44.559
it was private and lated nat enough and he would go,

888
01:02:44.719 --> 01:02:48.360
you know, there is some mental aspects.

889
01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:52.559
Oh wow, that's that.

890
01:02:54.159 --> 01:02:59.599
I used to go, Wow, you know, Renee's actually got

891
01:02:59.599 --> 01:03:01.920
a clue, you know, like I used to. That used

892
01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:06.719
to really please me. Yeah, I'm mister out there supposedly,

893
01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:17.559
but I'm not. But Renee, Renee had through experience, brings

894
01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:21.800
you there. Like those experiences I told you about clued

895
01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:24.920
me into a different side. I always say, people see

896
01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:29.280
different faces of the Bigfoot mystery, right, and it's really

897
01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:34.360
probably the experience you had is the face you see,

898
01:03:34.639 --> 01:03:37.039
and it's probably just that simple. And so I had

899
01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:39.400
a weird experience. So that's the face I saw. It

900
01:03:39.440 --> 01:03:44.480
was weird. It's not this monkey walking across the street.

901
01:03:44.599 --> 01:03:54.639
It's weird, man. So I was very pleased when Renee

902
01:03:55.480 --> 01:03:59.760
and some of the really old guys through experience, because

903
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:04.599
as you go along, weird things happen to you. I

904
01:04:04.639 --> 01:04:08.199
can guarantee you that you can be you can see

905
01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:13.039
Bigfoot cross the road like another dozen times. But then

906
01:04:13.119 --> 01:04:17.400
one time the thirteenth time, you know, Bigfoot stops your

907
01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:19.960
car dead in the middle of the road with his

908
01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:28.519
mind and you go, wow, that's really weird. So what

909
01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:32.199
I'm saying is it seems to me that anybody that

910
01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:37.440
really looks and really tries and gets it and goes

911
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:42.360
the distance and does the work and gets out there

912
01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:47.280
and really does it, the closer you get to them,

913
01:04:47.360 --> 01:04:52.440
the weirder it gets. Like when you start to actually

914
01:04:52.480 --> 01:04:58.079
have experiences, they're not what you expect and you're like, wow,

915
01:04:59.679 --> 01:05:04.559
I expecting a gorilla and you know, and as time

916
01:05:04.679 --> 01:05:12.159
goes by, as you I mean, that's what I have

917
01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:16.280
observed in others is over time they get a little

918
01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:19.360
more open to the weird side, because weird shit happens

919
01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:23.119
as they look, if they really look. And maybe it

920
01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:25.519
takes a decade or two, you know, I mean, it

921
01:05:25.639 --> 01:05:29.440
takes time before something weird happens. But I find a

922
01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:33.280
lot of times that those very old guys, that's all

923
01:05:33.320 --> 01:05:36.599
I meant to really, I can say, as.

924
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:41.239
Man, there's they're okay, there's a lot I'm going to

925
01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:44.159
ask you. So in this interview, I'll be asking some

926
01:05:44.239 --> 01:05:47.159
really like random questions and if it doesn't hit.

927
01:05:47.320 --> 01:05:49.119
We're just going to go right past it. And it's

928
01:05:49.119 --> 01:05:50.360
more for me personally.

929
01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:53.280
I like talking about bigfoot.

930
01:05:53.559 --> 01:05:58.360
Yeah, anything you want, so ri I'm in I'm in Iowa, right.

931
01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:02.119
So I research bigfoot Iowa and I found out that

932
01:06:02.800 --> 01:06:05.239
from a guy that I talked to who was involved

933
01:06:05.239 --> 01:06:07.159
with big footing in Iowa in the nineteen seventies, that

934
01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:08.239
Renede to Hindon.

935
01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:10.800
Actually came out to Iowa to talk to them. Did

936
01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:12.920
he ever? Is that anything that?

937
01:06:13.719 --> 01:06:16.280
He probably never mentioned anything about an Iowa trip or

938
01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:17.000
anything like that.

939
01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:20.559
If not, that's how he never mentioned that. Okay, all right.

940
01:06:20.679 --> 01:06:26.320
No sweat. Did you ever talk to Patty Patterson about

941
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:28.360
the PG film at all? Did you ever get to

942
01:06:28.360 --> 01:06:29.239
talk to her about that?

943
01:06:31.599 --> 01:06:33.280
No? I just talked money.

944
01:06:33.800 --> 01:06:37.639
Okay, Yeah, you're just the guy putting stuff together, all right, cool?

945
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:40.599
Cool. I only talked money with her, and then I

946
01:06:40.679 --> 01:06:46.400
talked to websites with her. But yeah, no, I never No,

947
01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:53.000
I had never once broached the subject. We discussed at length.

948
01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:59.119
You know what her copy was exactly ten. You know

949
01:06:59.599 --> 01:07:03.039
how much which we would pay, and you know how

950
01:07:03.079 --> 01:07:06.400
long we could have it, and you know what we

951
01:07:06.440 --> 01:07:09.039
could do to it. You know, we went to the

952
01:07:09.079 --> 01:07:13.159
whole we had. It was complicated. It's a valuable asset

953
01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:18.039
and oh yeah, you know, we did the best we

954
01:07:18.079 --> 01:07:25.519
could at the time. But that project ended in tears.

955
01:07:26.079 --> 01:07:30.440
The and things happened. For example, we made a stabilized

956
01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:35.199
version of it back then in nineteen ninety five. We

957
01:07:35.239 --> 01:07:40.559
had this beautiful stabilized version of Patty Patterson's copy. Wow,

958
01:07:40.920 --> 01:07:46.840
and we just destroyed it. We didn't, you know, like

959
01:07:47.039 --> 01:07:47.960
at the end, it was.

960
01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:50.320
Like a you destroyed it.

961
01:07:51.159 --> 01:07:59.760
Well, it got destroyed, yes, the well, yeah, because wow.

962
01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:04.800
From that project, there was a staff of three. There

963
01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:09.719
was Peter Burn, a staff of three, and the board

964
01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:15.519
of advisors, of which really there were you know, we

965
01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:19.880
were like volunteers, right, you know, and the board of

966
01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:23.600
advisors we just sort of commits and show up, and

967
01:08:24.399 --> 01:08:28.039
you know, we were just pain in the ass. So

968
01:08:32.960 --> 01:08:35.840
I'm the only one that acknowledges that it ever happened.

969
01:08:37.720 --> 01:08:40.680
The rest of the staff has removed it from their resumes.

970
01:08:41.720 --> 01:08:45.439
The project leader after Peter Burn, has removed all mention

971
01:08:45.560 --> 01:08:50.239
of it from any of his uh cvs or anything.

972
01:08:51.720 --> 01:08:55.039
No one wants to talk about it or say a word.

973
01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:59.880
At the end of the project, we had seventy CDs,

974
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:03.760
this digitized copy of the Patterson film on it, and

975
01:09:04.159 --> 01:09:07.159
one of these staff took sixty eight of the CDs,

976
01:09:07.520 --> 01:09:11.279
and I took the first two, which I've lost since

977
01:09:11.319 --> 01:09:15.199
then because I just wanted a memento of different two.

978
01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:19.000
What the hell? And she buried him, you know, like

979
01:09:19.039 --> 01:09:23.279
she None of these people will bury them. Well, none

980
01:09:23.319 --> 01:09:25.640
of these people want to have anything to do with

981
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:30.560
anything in Bigfoot whatsoever. They've scrubbed any mention of it

982
01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:34.520
in their lives since so all of them have this

983
01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:41.880
same zuro mention of ever having ever existed. I am

984
01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:46.840
the only human being who will talk about Wow.

985
01:09:47.920 --> 01:09:50.840
That is so intense, Henry that.

986
01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:57.760
Yeah, literally it died in nineteen ninety eight when I

987
01:09:57.880 --> 01:10:03.840
was wow, right, and that was that was the real death.

988
01:10:04.279 --> 01:10:10.239
And so yeah, twenty four years, twenty four years later, it's.

989
01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:11.319
Like, that's crazy, man.

990
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:14.319
I'm the last person who will.

991
01:10:14.319 --> 01:10:16.560
The last one who will.

992
01:10:16.399 --> 01:10:25.039
Even but even at the time I wound up with everything,

993
01:10:26.359 --> 01:10:28.720
that's that's a lot of what I gave to Autumn

994
01:10:28.720 --> 01:10:35.720
Williams back then. Because I was the only of the

995
01:10:35.800 --> 01:10:42.840
people of the project. There might have been others who

996
01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:52.880
were I was the one really focused on solving the problem. Sure,

997
01:10:52.960 --> 01:10:55.640
I've really wanted to figure out the mystery. Now I

998
01:10:55.720 --> 01:10:58.520
still do you know that That's what motivated me is

999
01:10:58.560 --> 01:11:02.239
I wanted answers. I wanted to know what was going on,

1000
01:11:03.119 --> 01:11:06.159
and so everybody kind of knew that about me, like

1001
01:11:06.159 --> 01:11:08.600
like I was the true believer. That was like, hey,

1002
01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:13.039
I want to solve the mystery. The Patterson film copy,

1003
01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:15.960
like I said, I only took the first two discs

1004
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:19.880
and the other staff member took the others.

1005
01:11:19.880 --> 01:11:24.279
Oh, so that was that was not a literal thing, right,

1006
01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:26.680
Like they didn't literally bury them in the ground, like

1007
01:11:26.720 --> 01:11:28.119
it was just they She.

1008
01:11:28.039 --> 01:11:29.760
Just who knows what she did?

1009
01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:30.960
She devoor.

1010
01:11:31.159 --> 01:11:35.079
She never talked to a Bigfoot person again and never

1011
01:11:35.199 --> 01:11:40.079
acknowledged any connection to Bigfoot anything ever again with anyone.

1012
01:11:40.479 --> 01:11:44.880
And she moved off, got another job, married a guy,

1013
01:11:45.560 --> 01:11:47.119
moved on, had a life.

1014
01:11:47.479 --> 01:11:48.680
Good for her, Good for her.

1015
01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:52.520
We'll let we'll let her have her life. I do

1016
01:11:52.600 --> 01:11:55.279
want to talk because the history of this I don't

1017
01:11:55.279 --> 01:11:59.359
think exists anywhere, is how did the documentary drumming for

1018
01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:00.399
Bigfoot come about?

1019
01:12:00.439 --> 01:12:04.279
Like what's the background of that? Was that your idea or.

1020
01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:14.359
Yes, okay, the way that came about was I better

1021
01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:23.000
like this to tell you the story you're seame a

1022
01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:29.560
guy named Anthony Wonke and I smoke joints, drank beers

1023
01:12:30.720 --> 01:12:34.800
and drove all around the Pacific Northwest for nine weeks

1024
01:12:35.880 --> 01:12:44.119
in a rental car, interviewing bigfoot people all over the

1025
01:12:44.199 --> 01:12:50.640
Northwest no way, and scouting locations. And we had two

1026
01:12:50.760 --> 01:12:55.199
tapes to listen to in the car. One was Schoolly

1027
01:12:56.039 --> 01:13:00.960
if you know your early rap and school one of

1028
01:13:00.960 --> 01:13:05.239
the hardest of the heart, and the other one was

1029
01:13:05.359 --> 01:13:08.880
tortoise Head. And we listened to these two tapes and

1030
01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:11.800
smoked joints and drank beers for nine weeks.

1031
01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:13.079
Oh, that's amazing.

1032
01:13:14.079 --> 01:13:19.199
And wrote the script.

1033
01:13:21.199 --> 01:13:22.560
While you're in it all.

1034
01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:25.920
Good, and we casted it too.

1035
01:13:26.600 --> 01:13:31.119
It's so good. Okay. That documentary is one of my.

1036
01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:35.880
It's my favorite thing because of the culture of the

1037
01:13:35.960 --> 01:13:38.520
nineties and also like the way it's edited.

1038
01:13:38.600 --> 01:13:39.640
Did you edit it too?

1039
01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:43.880
No, those guys were you see, those guys were masters.

1040
01:13:44.079 --> 01:13:49.119
Anthony Wonke was the assistant producer and really he wrote

1041
01:13:49.119 --> 01:13:54.600
the majority. But I he'll tell you it's my movie.

1042
01:13:54.640 --> 01:13:58.840
I really wrote the majority. Okay, like he'll like, we'll

1043
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:07.399
we'll disagree about who wrote the Maturity, But we went

1044
01:14:07.479 --> 01:14:12.359
through all we met every lunatic bigfoot person in the Northwest,

1045
01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:16.840
and the idea was to cast interesting narrative characters.

1046
01:14:17.119 --> 01:14:18.640
That's awesome, Yes.

1047
01:14:18.720 --> 01:14:22.159
You're talking about like I went and introduced them to

1048
01:14:22.199 --> 01:14:26.199
Peter Burn and to to Hindon and then to Grover

1049
01:14:26.319 --> 01:14:30.000
Krantz and John Green. You know, it's like morehead. I'm like, okay,

1050
01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:33.000
you got to meet the guys, you know, right, So

1051
01:14:33.039 --> 01:14:36.479
I introduced him and thinking one of these people is

1052
01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:39.640
going to be the spokesman, right, because we were looking

1053
01:14:39.680 --> 01:14:41.920
for spokesmen. We were looking for who was going to

1054
01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:46.720
be the main narrative character. So all those guys tell

1055
01:14:46.800 --> 01:14:50.279
the same story, they give the same inner every time.

1056
01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:51.640
It's boring.

1057
01:14:52.039 --> 01:14:54.800
We don't want those guys, right, right exactly?

1058
01:14:55.720 --> 01:14:58.560
Oh okay, and they were like, yeah, no, we want you.

1059
01:14:58.560 --> 01:15:02.680
You know, you'll you're the narrative character and Larry Lund

1060
01:15:02.840 --> 01:15:04.960
will be the secondary man.

1061
01:15:05.279 --> 01:15:06.079
It is so good.

1062
01:15:07.199 --> 01:15:10.159
So we got Larry and me to be the narrative characters.

1063
01:15:10.479 --> 01:15:17.000
And people don't know this is how that movie got made,

1064
01:15:17.039 --> 01:15:20.920
but yeah, that's how it got made. And then we

1065
01:15:21.159 --> 01:15:27.159
had What we were trying to do was to coordinate

1066
01:15:27.199 --> 01:15:31.359
it with the Bigfoot research project so that when the

1067
01:15:31.439 --> 01:15:34.760
big paper was coming out towards.

1068
01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:37.319
That is intense.

1069
01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:43.479
The first plot had that was the big reveal was okay,

1070
01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:48.840
and here's the big scientific report. Oh really, Yeah, that

1071
01:15:49.000 --> 01:15:51.680
was going to be the original way it went right,

1072
01:15:52.359 --> 01:15:58.880
but Peter demanded way too much money and you gotta

1073
01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:01.800
pay me x one if you want to do that.

1074
01:16:02.159 --> 01:16:08.079
Yeah. Is is Anthony still around? Do you know?

1075
01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:13.760
He works for the BBC? See, the people that did

1076
01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:17.319
that all worked for Channel four and the BBC. They

1077
01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:20.319
were pros. Normal how that.

1078
01:16:20.279 --> 01:16:24.479
Guy big for society will be right back after these messages.

1079
01:16:40.600 --> 01:16:44.640
Anthony Wonke was the second guy, John Waters. The guy

1080
01:16:44.680 --> 01:16:51.880
that plays the cameraman was David Attenborough's cameraman, you know,

1081
01:16:52.079 --> 01:16:56.479
like and the cameraman we had besides him were of

1082
01:16:56.520 --> 01:17:00.720
the same quality. And the sound guy was incredible. He

1083
01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:03.000
got the best drum sound out in the middle of

1084
01:17:03.039 --> 01:17:06.079
the woods because he had such high end gear. It

1085
01:17:06.159 --> 01:17:10.039
was staggering, you know. And they were all total pros

1086
01:17:10.079 --> 01:17:14.159
that really knew what they were doing. And Norman Hall

1087
01:17:14.279 --> 01:17:16.880
was in charge of that. But that team of guys

1088
01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:20.199
see after the nine weeks then they came and We

1089
01:17:20.279 --> 01:17:24.920
shot it for six weeks, so it actually took fifteen weeks,

1090
01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:29.359
and then it went to editing and there's you know,

1091
01:17:29.520 --> 01:17:32.239
just like every movie, there's like five times the footage

1092
01:17:32.359 --> 01:17:36.439
that you'll ever seeh.

1093
01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:38.680
Can you I can't imagine the stuff that like is

1094
01:17:38.760 --> 01:17:43.000
on the floor after the editing, Like, what's the stuff

1095
01:17:43.000 --> 01:17:43.840
that didn't make it in?

1096
01:17:43.960 --> 01:17:44.119
Oh?

1097
01:17:44.159 --> 01:17:46.199
I would love to see, but you'll never.

1098
01:17:46.039 --> 01:17:48.399
See it make it in most did not make it

1099
01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:52.279
in Oh. We went and we went and picked those

1100
01:17:52.319 --> 01:17:57.399
people because they were interesting narrative characters. You know, we

1101
01:17:57.399 --> 01:18:01.279
were looking for quirky the Brits, British people in general,

1102
01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:05.359
like the more you know, idiosyncratic narrative character rather right,

1103
01:18:06.079 --> 01:18:10.880
you know, American style, you know, straight ahead narrative character.

1104
01:18:11.159 --> 01:18:17.239
You know, they they're they like idiosyncrasies. So I love

1105
01:18:17.319 --> 01:18:19.680
making that movie. But like I said, we basically got

1106
01:18:19.760 --> 01:18:27.720
drunken stoned and wrote it and and.

1107
01:18:24.880 --> 01:18:28.760
It makes it makes the doc even better. Who did

1108
01:18:28.760 --> 01:18:30.239
the music for that the doc?

1109
01:18:30.279 --> 01:18:31.159
It's it's really.

1110
01:18:32.319 --> 01:18:42.600
Norman Holland whoever, Yeah, I don't know who they were, the.

1111
01:18:37.279 --> 01:18:42.720
Great the one of the one of the I guess

1112
01:18:42.760 --> 01:18:45.399
you could say quirky characters in it that I just

1113
01:18:46.279 --> 01:18:49.079
the Howard Hall guy in the Goat Mountain area.

1114
01:18:49.840 --> 01:18:51.880
Whatever happened? Do you know whatever happened to him?

1115
01:18:52.680 --> 01:18:54.600
No, but I think he steals the Joe.

1116
01:18:54.760 --> 01:18:56.399
I think he's like, he's so good.

1117
01:18:57.359 --> 01:19:01.560
Yeah, he steals the movie Howard. No, don't know what

1118
01:19:01.720 --> 01:19:06.680
happened to Howard? You know, And I've one time I

1119
01:19:06.760 --> 01:19:10.760
used to hang out where he lives. Was really near

1120
01:19:10.840 --> 01:19:15.880
Scoop and Lake, really not that far a valley or

1121
01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:18.520
two over a valley or two over, you know. So

1122
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:23.359
I used to hang out the area. And then I'd

1123
01:19:23.399 --> 01:19:26.680
stopped hanging out in that area after ninety six, really

1124
01:19:26.840 --> 01:19:29.920
after after that movie, I stopped hanging out in that area.

1125
01:19:30.199 --> 01:19:36.399
So occasionally I visited the Clckhamis area, but it's you know,

1126
01:19:37.119 --> 01:19:40.760
my my, I set my stakes wider then.

1127
01:19:42.199 --> 01:19:47.760
Yes, do you remember any people that you had talked

1128
01:19:47.760 --> 01:19:50.279
to in those nine weeks that didn't make the cut?

1129
01:19:51.439 --> 01:19:58.119
Oh? Yeah, yeah, millions? Oh yeah, a lot, because because

1130
01:19:58.119 --> 01:20:00.760
see it was like going down on the list of

1131
01:20:00.800 --> 01:20:03.960
all the people I knew. So there was a guy

1132
01:20:04.039 --> 01:20:11.800
named Dennis harry Ford who was a Washington State Patrol guy,

1133
01:20:13.239 --> 01:20:21.800
and he back then he didn't talk to Bigfoot people.

1134
01:20:22.079 --> 01:20:27.000
He but he was actually the guy that the State

1135
01:20:27.039 --> 01:20:30.560
of Washington would call when there was a bigfoot incident

1136
01:20:30.680 --> 01:20:34.880
at a construction site or something. And so he had

1137
01:20:36.039 --> 01:20:41.199
the greatest track casts and measurements and data collection of

1138
01:20:41.319 --> 01:20:48.079
anybody ever. And I mean he was the guy Washington called,

1139
01:20:48.279 --> 01:20:50.920
you know, and he would measure the tracks and the

1140
01:20:50.960 --> 01:20:53.439
stride and the this and the that, and you know,

1141
01:20:53.680 --> 01:20:59.279
just did a straight cop thing. And he was a

1142
01:20:59.359 --> 01:21:04.560
super bad ass woodsman that The other job he had

1143
01:21:04.600 --> 01:21:08.319
for Washington, the State of Washington was they would call

1144
01:21:08.439 --> 01:21:11.239
him when there was a prison escapee hiding out in

1145
01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:15.359
the woods, and he would track him down no way. Yeah.

1146
01:21:15.399 --> 01:21:19.600
So Dennis Harryford was this insane character that I mean,

1147
01:21:19.640 --> 01:21:22.600
I was just like, oh man, you know, like we've

1148
01:21:22.600 --> 01:21:25.199
got to introduce people to Dennis.

1149
01:21:25.279 --> 01:21:30.840
Dude, what could have been? Oh my goodness. But that's

1150
01:21:30.960 --> 01:21:31.920
that's just how it goes.

1151
01:21:31.960 --> 01:21:39.000
Yeah. No, And I mean it's many many years later,

1152
01:21:39.159 --> 01:21:42.279
so I I have no idea what he's up to now.

1153
01:21:42.279 --> 01:21:44.800
But I think now like everybody knows about him, like

1154
01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:48.000
you know, Moneymaker and the bfr R. You know, I

1155
01:21:48.039 --> 01:21:56.720
think everybody's figured out Dennis Harreford exists. Yeah, but who else. Yeah,

1156
01:21:56.840 --> 01:22:02.159
there was Datis Perry and really Datas. It was the

1157
01:22:02.199 --> 01:22:06.399
only film ever taken of Datas And it's too bad

1158
01:22:07.119 --> 01:22:10.279
it was right before he died. But he was he

1159
01:22:10.439 --> 01:22:13.560
was one of my biggest influences. And he was a

1160
01:22:13.640 --> 01:22:19.960
logger that lived in Schimania County and had thirteen encounters

1161
01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:25.119
with Bigfoot, as he used to tell us and m

1162
01:22:25.319 --> 01:22:27.720
But he turned out to be one of the most

1163
01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:33.039
insightful people and have the most valuable insights in my opinion,

1164
01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:38.079
you know. And he got completely cut. And then there

1165
01:22:38.079 --> 01:22:42.600
were two macaw elders that we interviewed, Georgia all and

1166
01:22:42.640 --> 01:22:46.720
Frank Smith that were there. That their white names, and

1167
01:22:48.079 --> 01:22:53.760
they were eighty and got to interview him. And it

1168
01:22:53.880 --> 01:22:59.279
was it was it was like this. It was like

1169
01:22:59.640 --> 01:23:02.199
we went on and on and on about Bigfoot, big Foot,

1170
01:23:02.239 --> 01:23:06.600
big Foot, Bigfoot, Bigfoot, and the only thing they would

1171
01:23:06.640 --> 01:23:09.000
say was that they'd say, well, you know, like nineteen

1172
01:23:09.039 --> 01:23:13.239
forty seven, a serviceman stationed down the road at the

1173
01:23:13.359 --> 01:23:22.199
air base saw one, he says, and that you can

1174
01:23:22.239 --> 01:23:25.119
find in John Green's book on the Track of the

1175
01:23:25.119 --> 01:23:30.880
Sasquatch at particular incident. Okay, And if you went to

1176
01:23:30.960 --> 01:23:35.119
the tribal bookstore. They had John Green's Track of the Sasquatch,

1177
01:23:35.600 --> 01:23:39.840
and that was the only Bigfoot story they would tell. Was, oh,

1178
01:23:39.920 --> 01:23:42.359
that one that's in John Green's book, you know. And

1179
01:23:42.399 --> 01:23:45.159
I was like, well geez. So then I said, well,

1180
01:23:45.640 --> 01:23:49.039
what about the little people? And they said, oh, the

1181
01:23:49.079 --> 01:23:52.199
little people they're in the next valley. You want to

1182
01:23:52.239 --> 01:23:58.199
meet him in no way. Then we got onto the

1183
01:23:58.279 --> 01:24:05.119
sea monsters, and they had seen this sea monster, each

1184
01:24:05.159 --> 01:24:07.840
of them had seen it three times in their life

1185
01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:12.840
over eighty years, and Nia Bay and basically it was

1186
01:24:12.920 --> 01:24:14.760
cad Borosaurus.

1187
01:24:14.359 --> 01:24:17.720
As the modern Oh yeah, Caddy right right.

1188
01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:23.600
Well these both of these elders described six different encounters

1189
01:24:23.640 --> 01:24:28.640
they had with Caddy in Nia Bay. And we cut

1190
01:24:28.680 --> 01:24:29.359
all that.

1191
01:24:29.279 --> 01:24:31.760
And I was like, oh my goodness.

1192
01:24:32.760 --> 01:24:35.680
You know, I was like, oh shit, man, we did

1193
01:24:35.760 --> 01:24:38.119
have kept that. Man, I know it wasn't Bigfoot, but

1194
01:24:38.199 --> 01:24:41.079
you know, really there's people that would have been interested

1195
01:24:41.119 --> 01:24:42.279
in that.

1196
01:24:42.600 --> 01:24:45.039
Holy mackerelhan, Oh my goodness.

1197
01:24:45.960 --> 01:24:52.000
Wow, that's I never would like, never would have expected

1198
01:24:52.039 --> 01:24:52.600
all that.

1199
01:24:52.600 --> 01:24:54.239
That's crazy, dude.

1200
01:24:54.800 --> 01:24:59.319
Well yeah, nothing to it. That airman saw it in

1201
01:24:59.439 --> 01:25:08.680
nineteen four, that is really Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Yeah,

1202
01:25:08.920 --> 01:25:11.079
all that's on the cutting room flort. I know that

1203
01:25:11.279 --> 01:25:16.399
because those are the things I really missed, and I

1204
01:25:16.439 --> 01:25:23.159
was like, damn, wow, all those people died too, right,

1205
01:25:23.439 --> 01:25:25.520
Georgia L. Frank Smith, Davis Perry.

1206
01:25:25.680 --> 01:25:30.199
Yeah, so especially if those guys were in their eighties

1207
01:25:30.239 --> 01:25:35.439
back then. Yeah, they're they're long gone. Yeah wow, thank

1208
01:25:35.479 --> 01:25:38.640
you for sharing all that. I mean, it's like you

1209
01:25:38.680 --> 01:25:42.560
can find a copy of that, an old VHS transfer

1210
01:25:42.600 --> 01:25:46.039
copy of it on YouTube, and then it's on the

1211
01:25:46.159 --> 01:25:48.159
two b app. I don't know if you've ever seen that.

1212
01:25:48.279 --> 01:25:50.319
It's like this streaming app.

1213
01:25:51.159 --> 01:25:53.600
Yeah, the title changes. I think they call it.

1214
01:25:54.119 --> 01:25:58.039
Yeah yeah, Bigfoot.

1215
01:25:57.640 --> 01:26:00.000
Monster Mystery is what I've seen it as on YouTube.

1216
01:26:00.720 --> 01:26:05.760
But yeah, yeah, they It just keeps floating around, that's

1217
01:26:05.800 --> 01:26:08.399
for sure. It keeps. It's like a bad penny, it

1218
01:26:08.479 --> 01:26:09.359
keeps turning up.

1219
01:26:09.720 --> 01:26:12.960
It's like if you know about it, then you and

1220
01:26:13.000 --> 01:26:15.520
if you find someone else that knows about it, it's

1221
01:26:15.600 --> 01:26:19.159
like you're in this like special like ultra secret Bigfoot

1222
01:26:19.199 --> 01:26:21.760
club where it's like, oh you get that ninety seven

1223
01:26:21.840 --> 01:26:24.399
Bigfoot doc, then you're you're awesome.

1224
01:26:24.560 --> 01:26:25.960
That's how I look at it anyways.

1225
01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:29.520
But oh wow. It started as a joke from my

1226
01:26:29.640 --> 01:26:36.279
friend Arthur Purley who said, let's go play drums for Bigfoot,

1227
01:26:36.439 --> 01:26:40.880
and oh wow, get Bigfoot to come and check us out.

1228
01:26:41.319 --> 01:26:48.680
And then one day BBC comes to town and I

1229
01:26:48.800 --> 01:26:51.960
start joking around with Anthony Wonkee about the idea. Right

1230
01:26:52.000 --> 01:26:57.079
in that nine weeks of driving around, they're all like, yeah,

1231
01:26:57.399 --> 01:26:59.640
that's gonna be the opening scene.

1232
01:27:01.119 --> 01:27:02.359
And it's so good too.

1233
01:27:02.880 --> 01:27:07.279
It's so good, and I'm like, really, I mean it

1234
01:27:07.399 --> 01:27:10.479
started as a joke. They're like, oh, man, that's the

1235
01:27:10.640 --> 01:27:14.159
oble zoom man, you know, like man, just like it is,

1236
01:27:14.279 --> 01:27:17.600
you know, And I'm like, wow, who knew? You know?

1237
01:27:17.680 --> 01:27:22.119
So yeah it it wasn't my plan, but it did

1238
01:27:22.279 --> 01:27:23.840
start in my head, you know.

1239
01:27:24.199 --> 01:27:26.239
So I love it. I love it so much.

1240
01:27:26.319 --> 01:27:32.439
The ideas turns out also is sound as well. You

1241
01:27:32.479 --> 01:27:35.560
don't find Bigfoot, they find you. Turns out that's a

1242
01:27:35.600 --> 01:27:36.640
sound concept.

1243
01:27:37.439 --> 01:27:38.800
So very interesting.

1244
01:27:40.560 --> 01:27:44.960
Another statement you made in your books, you mentioned making

1245
01:27:45.279 --> 01:27:50.439
six six shows and making contributions to half a dozen books.

1246
01:27:51.880 --> 01:27:55.680
I'm just curious, like, do you remember, like what shows.

1247
01:27:55.319 --> 01:27:57.479
Were you involved with making?

1248
01:27:58.600 --> 01:28:01.680
An also or like country aributions to books stuff like that.

1249
01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:08.199
The other big one, the Sasquatch Odyssey, okay, right, yeah,

1250
01:28:08.920 --> 01:28:13.319
you know that one. Then there was a German one

1251
01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:19.760
that you no one's ever seen a little German vignette.

1252
01:28:19.840 --> 01:28:23.000
Then there was an Australian one. No one's ever seen

1253
01:28:23.760 --> 01:28:30.840
little vignette. Then I did in Search of with Robert Stack.

1254
01:28:32.720 --> 01:28:35.359
Nice, that's awesome.

1255
01:28:37.479 --> 01:28:42.720
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, before Leonard Nimoy, you know, like

1256
01:28:43.000 --> 01:28:45.359
early early in search.

1257
01:28:45.079 --> 01:28:52.640
Of Oh wow, yeah, you do you remember the names

1258
01:28:52.800 --> 01:28:56.560
of the German and you said it was Australian.

1259
01:28:56.880 --> 01:28:58.159
Okay, no problem.

1260
01:28:58.199 --> 01:29:00.640
I don't even remember. I don't remember. I don't remember

1261
01:29:00.680 --> 01:29:06.399
the names. I remember the interviews. And then there was

1262
01:29:06.439 --> 01:29:13.880
another British one that disappeared. Another like some competitor of

1263
01:29:13.880 --> 01:29:17.680
the BBC had to do an interview too, if there

1264
01:29:17.760 --> 01:29:20.600
is a competitor of the BBC, or maybe it's a

1265
01:29:20.600 --> 01:29:24.960
competitor of Channel four. But another crew came out and

1266
01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:28.159
did another interview at the time. But I've never seen

1267
01:29:28.680 --> 01:29:31.560
or heard of that one ever again. Actually, all three

1268
01:29:31.600 --> 01:29:33.560
of those I never heard of again. There were three

1269
01:29:33.680 --> 01:29:35.880
that I shot that I never heard a thing ever.

1270
01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:40.039
That's very interesting.

1271
01:29:40.279 --> 01:29:44.079
Two thousands off here. Two thousand is when I said

1272
01:29:44.880 --> 01:29:48.680
I am not going to be a narrative character for

1273
01:29:48.800 --> 01:29:53.680
the media about Bigfoot anymore. Thank you very much. Yes,

1274
01:29:54.279 --> 01:29:57.000
And you know here I am eating my words twenty

1275
01:29:57.000 --> 01:30:01.840
two years later, and you know right here I am.

1276
01:30:02.279 --> 01:30:07.159
But it's okay. Now I'm retired, I'm sixty six. I'm

1277
01:30:07.359 --> 01:30:09.199
at a different place in life.

1278
01:30:09.039 --> 01:30:13.640
You know, time to have some fun, you know. Yeah.

1279
01:30:14.880 --> 01:30:21.600
Oh, in uh the Oregon big Foot Highway, they taught

1280
01:30:21.640 --> 01:30:25.359
so you were listed as a Clackamass Saskatchewan.

1281
01:30:26.239 --> 01:30:26.520
SIS.

1282
01:30:27.439 --> 01:30:32.640
That word is so dang hard to say, Sasquatchean. Sasquatchean, Okay.

1283
01:30:33.800 --> 01:30:37.560
One of the requirements is that you camp at least

1284
01:30:37.640 --> 01:30:40.640
five days up to Clackamiss or spend two hundred hours

1285
01:30:40.640 --> 01:30:43.920
of boots on the ground. Research is that something like?

1286
01:30:44.079 --> 01:30:46.039
Did you actually meet those requirements?

1287
01:30:46.039 --> 01:30:52.840
Then? Yeah, without trying, you know, I okay, where the

1288
01:30:52.880 --> 01:30:56.960
hot areas are after many years, and that's one of

1289
01:30:57.000 --> 01:31:00.000
the hot areas. It's always been hot. There's always been

1290
01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:03.359
shit going on over there, and that's where all that

1291
01:31:03.600 --> 01:31:07.760
UFO stuff happened, and all that everything.

1292
01:31:07.960 --> 01:31:10.760
Big for society will be right back. After these messages,

1293
01:31:26.760 --> 01:31:27.399
I've had.

1294
01:31:27.239 --> 01:31:30.319
So many weird things happened to me over there that

1295
01:31:35.680 --> 01:31:43.399
I maintain a network of observers to this day, but

1296
01:31:43.600 --> 01:31:55.119
not boy Scouts. But okay, see, I well that's really

1297
01:31:55.159 --> 01:32:06.960
an overstatement. I've been in natural resources management and the

1298
01:32:07.000 --> 01:32:14.159
Warm Springs Reservation is border of the western border of

1299
01:32:14.239 --> 01:32:17.960
it is right there, not so far from Scookum Lake

1300
01:32:19.079 --> 01:32:25.000
little further east and Thunder Mountain. You know that was

1301
01:32:25.079 --> 01:32:28.479
all Scoom Lake's on Thunder Mountain and Thunder is a

1302
01:32:28.560 --> 01:32:34.840
giant Indian in all the Indian stories. Okay, so the

1303
01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:40.319
fact that a giant Indian lives on Thunder Mountain exactly

1304
01:32:40.359 --> 01:32:44.119
why it's named Thunder Mountain. I didn't realize that when

1305
01:32:44.359 --> 01:32:47.600
I was looking at Skookum Lake on Thunder Mountain and

1306
01:32:47.640 --> 01:32:51.079
that's where the evil god it was, I didn't realize, Wow,

1307
01:32:51.399 --> 01:32:54.239
well I looked at the mountain. It was actually named

1308
01:32:54.279 --> 01:32:58.560
for Thunder, the giant Indian that's in all the stories.

1309
01:32:58.880 --> 01:33:04.439
So you know, I didn't know that then. And there's

1310
01:33:04.479 --> 01:33:06.600
a lot I didn't know, because there's a lot I

1311
01:33:06.640 --> 01:33:16.680
don't know still, right. But the the truth is is

1312
01:33:16.720 --> 01:33:26.039
that I worked for four tribes for twenty five years,

1313
01:33:26.199 --> 01:33:31.800
well more than that, I've worked for really twenty tribes,

1314
01:33:32.079 --> 01:33:37.159
but four main tribes, the Akaman Dumtil of Warm Springs, Nezpers.

1315
01:33:37.800 --> 01:33:40.760
Those are the four Treaty tribes and I worked on

1316
01:33:41.119 --> 01:33:45.520
behalf of their fishing rights. They are fishing treaty rights,

1317
01:33:45.520 --> 01:33:49.760
and I fought for their treaty rights in the Ninth

1318
01:33:49.800 --> 01:33:53.159
Circuit Court of Appeals and won a couple of cases. Okay,

1319
01:33:53.399 --> 01:34:04.760
so I'm a warrior to defend the tribal rights to

1320
01:34:07.039 --> 01:34:10.399
things like you know, the fish and wildlife and animals.

1321
01:34:10.479 --> 01:34:14.039
And you know, I've had a whole career in it.

1322
01:34:15.159 --> 01:34:18.800
And I had an annual contract with the Department of

1323
01:34:18.920 --> 01:34:22.640
Energy who funded me for all those years to do

1324
01:34:22.680 --> 01:34:27.479
this work for the tribes. So I've walked between you know,

1325
01:34:27.560 --> 01:34:31.319
the Feds, DOE and the tribes for twenty five years.

1326
01:34:31.399 --> 01:34:36.800
I've walked on a tight rope. And right, I know

1327
01:34:37.039 --> 01:34:42.279
those areas in Clackamus County now from a whole different perspective,

1328
01:34:42.479 --> 01:34:50.119
like as the boundary of Indian land coming west. And yeah,

1329
01:34:50.159 --> 01:34:56.800
like I said, the the thing is is that I'm

1330
01:34:58.720 --> 01:35:02.760
many tribal people tell me when there's when they have

1331
01:35:02.840 --> 01:35:06.960
a sighting, oh wow, and I don't. I have not

1332
01:35:07.199 --> 01:35:12.680
really spent until recently, I haven't spent much time outside

1333
01:35:12.720 --> 01:35:15.079
of Indian country. For the last twenty five years, I

1334
01:35:15.119 --> 01:35:18.399
spent a lot of time in Indian Country because I've

1335
01:35:18.439 --> 01:35:21.079
been doing salmon restoration work. I've been out in the

1336
01:35:21.119 --> 01:35:24.640
woods and in wilderness for twenty five years on tribal

1337
01:35:24.720 --> 01:35:28.840
land generally, and I'm been a scientist for the tribes

1338
01:35:28.880 --> 01:35:34.880
for twenty five years. And one of the interesting things

1339
01:35:35.119 --> 01:35:41.880
about that movie that you're talking about No Bigfoot Monster

1340
01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:45.159
Motory is that when tribal people saw that movie, what

1341
01:35:45.279 --> 01:35:48.760
they got from it. The takeaway they got in many

1342
01:35:48.840 --> 01:35:54.359
cases was that I would not hurt another animal. I

1343
01:35:54.399 --> 01:35:57.359
don't know how you can read that into that movie,

1344
01:35:57.920 --> 01:36:00.279
but they were like, you wouldn't hurt another animal? You

1345
01:36:00.359 --> 01:36:03.680
And all these different tribal people would come up to

1346
01:36:03.720 --> 01:36:06.960
me and say, I saw that movie. You wouldn't hurt

1347
01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:09.840
another animal, would you? And I go, no, you know,

1348
01:36:09.880 --> 01:36:12.960
I wouldn't as a matter of fact, you know that's right.

1349
01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:17.760
And I couldn't figure out how they got that from

1350
01:36:17.840 --> 01:36:21.159
watching that film. But that happened to be all across

1351
01:36:21.199 --> 01:36:25.199
Indian country, and it acted as a calling, as a

1352
01:36:25.199 --> 01:36:30.119
as a white card to allow me access all across

1353
01:36:30.119 --> 01:36:33.600
Indian country. Because everybody saw that movie. An Indian country

1354
01:36:33.840 --> 01:36:38.760
oh wow, Yeah, and they all liked it. And I

1355
01:36:38.760 --> 01:36:41.479
didn't know that, and so everybody knew who I was

1356
01:36:43.359 --> 01:36:45.279
the moment I started going out in the middle of

1357
01:36:45.319 --> 01:36:49.479
Indian country and they're like, oh, the bigfood guy, you know.

1358
01:36:50.039 --> 01:36:56.199
But because that movie, I made real friends with Indians,

1359
01:36:56.359 --> 01:36:59.720
you know, I worked at one side. Yeah, made a

1360
01:36:59.760 --> 01:37:01.439
lot of good for I have good a lot of

1361
01:37:01.439 --> 01:37:06.039
good friends today that are tribal people and the real

1362
01:37:07.640 --> 01:37:13.000
born and raised on the residual people, you know. And

1363
01:37:13.000 --> 01:37:17.439
and so that's a network for me. My connections and

1364
01:37:17.600 --> 01:37:21.720
my reputation is not something I can share with other

1365
01:37:21.800 --> 01:37:24.640
people and say, oh exactly, yeah, tell them me or

1366
01:37:24.680 --> 01:37:30.199
my friend. And but the thing is is that I

1367
01:37:30.399 --> 01:37:36.640
get filled in if anybody on the Reds Bigfoot, I

1368
01:37:36.720 --> 01:37:41.079
usually hear, you know, like on those four resids. And

1369
01:37:41.119 --> 01:37:44.720
maybe even more because I just spent the last four

1370
01:37:44.720 --> 01:37:48.399
and a half years working for the Colledge tribe. So

1371
01:37:50.520 --> 01:37:54.359
and everybody knows that I'm that bigfoot obsessed white guy.

1372
01:37:54.800 --> 01:37:58.840
Sorry did you say that you have you have contacts

1373
01:37:58.960 --> 01:38:01.039
with Midwestern tribes as well.

1374
01:38:02.079 --> 01:38:11.600
Yeah, I just I I I'm I'm always hesitant, but hey,

1375
01:38:12.039 --> 01:38:13.880
it's come out in public.

1376
01:38:14.640 --> 01:38:16.680
Yeah, I have very.

1377
01:38:18.159 --> 01:38:20.680
I have various skill sets. One of my skill sets

1378
01:38:21.039 --> 01:38:27.720
is payment system architecture. When you're a computer grid right,

1379
01:38:28.000 --> 01:38:35.479
so you'll get it. So I take QA contracts coming

1380
01:38:35.520 --> 01:38:40.680
out of k Street for wik systems and food stamp systems,

1381
01:38:40.800 --> 01:38:44.239
and I do QA for the FEDS and for the

1382
01:38:45.439 --> 01:38:49.079
tribes in this case when they're building a new work system.

1383
01:38:49.119 --> 01:38:51.239
So a new wik system and a new food stamp

1384
01:38:51.279 --> 01:38:55.359
system just got put in in the Midwest across ten

1385
01:38:55.479 --> 01:38:59.560
tribes and it was a two year contract. I had

1386
01:38:59.640 --> 01:39:05.399
to do QA on putting on the system as it

1387
01:39:05.439 --> 01:39:10.520
got put in because a strange card. I have to

1388
01:39:10.560 --> 01:39:15.399
play as I'm an expert in payment system architecture, you know,

1389
01:39:15.439 --> 01:39:18.720
because like you, you know, I'm a computer keeek right, But

1390
01:39:18.800 --> 01:39:22.960
I'm I'm an old, sixty six year old computer.

1391
01:39:23.239 --> 01:39:24.560
I love that.

1392
01:39:24.960 --> 01:39:27.000
A lot of the listeners are like, I don't care,

1393
01:39:27.119 --> 01:39:29.359
but I'm like, dude, I love that stuff.

1394
01:39:29.439 --> 01:39:30.960
So I totally get it, man.

1395
01:39:31.239 --> 01:39:38.039
Yeah, I'm My thing is all about allocation of resources.

1396
01:39:38.079 --> 01:39:44.760
I want to help allocate resources in a fair way.

1397
01:39:45.119 --> 01:39:48.199
I think society should allocate see resources in a fair way. Yeah,

1398
01:39:48.279 --> 01:39:51.720
my soapbox and so all the work I do and

1399
01:39:51.760 --> 01:39:55.720
all the jobs and careers I've had have basically touched

1400
01:39:55.760 --> 01:39:59.880
on that theme, which is trying to make this society

1401
01:40:00.039 --> 01:40:04.279
allocate resources more fairly, you know, like that's my stick,

1402
01:40:04.680 --> 01:40:09.119
that's my that's my game. But it, yeah, it comes

1403
01:40:09.159 --> 01:40:12.680
out in different ways, and mostly yeah, I've worked. You know,

1404
01:40:12.720 --> 01:40:15.960
I've worked for these ten tribes and I couldn't talk

1405
01:40:16.000 --> 01:40:17.960
about it while I did it. Most of the time,

1406
01:40:18.600 --> 01:40:21.439
I can't talk about what I'm doing. I have buttoned

1407
01:40:21.520 --> 01:40:27.039
up strategic and effective, and I cannot talk. But now

1408
01:40:27.079 --> 01:40:30.600
I'm post retirement, so I actually say, oh, yeah, you know,

1409
01:40:30.760 --> 01:40:34.960
like I've been working for all these tribes for years, right,

1410
01:40:35.720 --> 01:40:40.680
you know, and I have a lot of contact. Well,

1411
01:40:40.760 --> 01:40:46.359
I have tribal friends, and I have a tremendous amount

1412
01:40:46.399 --> 01:40:50.399
of respect for the tribes, you know, which I really really,

1413
01:40:50.439 --> 01:40:55.800
I'm just it's a total privilege to be able to

1414
01:40:55.840 --> 01:40:58.960
work for the tribes like I do. And I'm just

1415
01:40:59.279 --> 01:41:02.199
filled with attitude that I got to do it, you know,

1416
01:41:02.279 --> 01:41:06.119
I really, I'm just it's too That's how I feel.

1417
01:41:06.239 --> 01:41:09.640
I know, people are like, no, you want to be Indian,

1418
01:41:10.680 --> 01:41:14.319
you know, I'm like, no, it's really on another level.

1419
01:41:14.560 --> 01:41:17.960
Yeah, yeah, that.

1420
01:41:18.000 --> 01:41:21.039
Is cool that you were able to to make you know,

1421
01:41:21.079 --> 01:41:24.000
you made really a huge difference in the lives of

1422
01:41:24.239 --> 01:41:25.520
so many people through that.

1423
01:41:25.720 --> 01:41:30.319
So that's it's very cool. I think as we start

1424
01:41:30.359 --> 01:41:36.479
to kind of wrap things up a little bit, do

1425
01:41:36.560 --> 01:41:38.319
you have any words for.

1426
01:41:39.800 --> 01:41:44.920
Those that are getting into bigfoot, uh, the younger generation,

1427
01:41:46.039 --> 01:41:47.760
the current big footers today?

1428
01:41:49.159 --> 01:41:50.479
Yeah, you broke up for a minute.

1429
01:41:50.640 --> 01:41:51.439
Oh yeah, sorry.

1430
01:41:51.920 --> 01:41:55.560
Do you have any any advice for the current, you know,

1431
01:41:55.720 --> 01:42:02.079
up and coming bigfoot generation of the Bigfooters today?

1432
01:42:03.840 --> 01:42:12.239
Yeah? Sure, think chew Bacca. Don't think field and stream,

1433
01:42:12.279 --> 01:42:19.079
field and stream, No, Chewbacca. Yeah, and you're gonna be

1434
01:42:19.119 --> 01:42:25.199
a lot closer. You know. My advice has not changed.

1435
01:42:25.600 --> 01:42:32.199
Do not underestimate the intelligence of what you are facing here.

1436
01:42:34.039 --> 01:42:38.920
It is well, yeah, I mean I don't know what

1437
01:42:39.039 --> 01:42:45.800
advice to give him. The way. One of the really

1438
01:42:45.840 --> 01:42:50.520
good things about Peter Burn that I need to mention

1439
01:42:52.000 --> 01:42:55.640
because nobody really mentions this about him. Sure, but this

1440
01:42:56.680 --> 01:43:01.600
dovetails into advice for the the now people. Peter was

1441
01:43:01.640 --> 01:43:03.960
different than all the other guys back in the day

1442
01:43:04.640 --> 01:43:09.720
because he was really into Jane Goodall, and he was

1443
01:43:09.800 --> 01:43:15.279
really into this approach of we should try to communicate

1444
01:43:15.399 --> 01:43:18.720
with them like Jane Goodall does with the gorillas, and

1445
01:43:18.760 --> 01:43:25.079
we should you use that approach, the whole friendly communication approach,

1446
01:43:25.159 --> 01:43:31.119
And he took crap from everybody else for being that way,

1447
01:43:31.960 --> 01:43:35.560
and he stood up to the Hindon and Krantz and Green.

1448
01:43:36.920 --> 01:43:40.520
Everybody was like, get out the gun, you know whatever,

1449
01:43:40.760 --> 01:43:50.720
and that was the right idea, but he shortly abandoned

1450
01:43:50.800 --> 01:43:55.479
it and went to this biopsy dart plan where he

1451
01:43:55.600 --> 01:43:57.800
was going to shoot it with a biopsy dart and

1452
01:43:57.880 --> 01:44:01.920
get a DNA sample because he needed a DNA sample,

1453
01:44:02.000 --> 01:44:04.159
and you know, and then they went to the slightly

1454
01:44:04.239 --> 01:44:10.279
more violent approach, which I wouldn't recommend even today, but

1455
01:44:10.720 --> 01:44:17.199
not for the reasons because because they're people. These things,

1456
01:44:17.880 --> 01:44:24.319
these creatures are people. The closest thing you can understand

1457
01:44:25.359 --> 01:44:31.800
is people. If you get to know them, you realize

1458
01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:36.000
they're people. Where have you been? You know? And so

1459
01:44:36.479 --> 01:44:41.000
only the others that I would really say is why

1460
01:44:41.399 --> 01:44:46.399
Peter Burns approach was really enlightened and ahead of the game,

1461
01:44:47.399 --> 01:44:53.159
and pretty much all the there's there's there's way too

1462
01:44:53.279 --> 01:44:57.560
much violent, you know there. I understand the mechanist viewpoint

1463
01:44:57.640 --> 01:45:01.479
and the materialist I must get the body, you know,

1464
01:45:02.079 --> 01:45:07.760
give it up on the body. No one. I'll point

1465
01:45:07.800 --> 01:45:16.960
out an interesting oh man, pardon me, in the data

1466
01:45:17.159 --> 01:45:20.800
that we have right now, which is, nobody's really ever

1467
01:45:20.920 --> 01:45:23.079
touched the body. And we've looked at the body a

1468
01:45:23.159 --> 01:45:25.840
lot of times, and it looks like ours, and it

1469
01:45:25.880 --> 01:45:29.199
looks like it has flesh like ours, and it looks

1470
01:45:29.279 --> 01:45:32.479
just like our like one of us, you know, see

1471
01:45:32.560 --> 01:45:38.279
muscles and shit. But nobody's touched it. And from the

1472
01:45:38.399 --> 01:45:44.199
strange reports I hear of those that actually touch it,

1473
01:45:44.199 --> 01:45:52.479
it's rock hard and doesn't meet your expectations about skin.

1474
01:45:53.640 --> 01:45:58.560
So there's a lot going on with the body. It's

1475
01:45:58.640 --> 01:46:02.359
different than ours, is my point. It looks the same

1476
01:46:02.439 --> 01:46:08.119
as ours, but functionally it's different. There's something really different

1477
01:46:08.159 --> 01:46:13.319
about it. And everybody sort of moves past that problem.

1478
01:46:13.399 --> 01:46:17.760
Nobody really gets to touch the body, hold the body,

1479
01:46:18.199 --> 01:46:26.520
even touch it with their hand more literally. Well, here's

1480
01:46:26.560 --> 01:46:27.079
the story.

1481
01:46:27.960 --> 01:46:29.720
Sure I may, yeah, definitely.

1482
01:46:30.159 --> 01:46:36.239
I had a friend, a tribal friend, who always wanted

1483
01:46:36.319 --> 01:46:40.520
to find out what happened if he shot a little

1484
01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:46.479
person in the head. And so he was hunting and

1485
01:46:46.600 --> 01:46:50.039
he saw a little person and he shot it in

1486
01:46:50.079 --> 01:46:56.760
the head and it rang like a bell, really really

1487
01:46:56.880 --> 01:47:01.359
loud like a bell, and he really bad luck for

1488
01:47:01.399 --> 01:47:05.760
the next fifteen years and then he died. Oh man,

1489
01:47:07.960 --> 01:47:11.720
So that's more advice for the youngsters. Don't do that.

1490
01:47:12.439 --> 01:47:17.479
Yeah, guys, let's not do that.

1491
01:47:17.479 --> 01:47:23.319
That's good advice. Henry. It has been an amazing chat

1492
01:47:23.359 --> 01:47:23.600
with you.

1493
01:47:23.680 --> 01:47:26.520
Thanks so much for taking a few hours out of

1494
01:47:26.560 --> 01:47:28.800
your Friday and chatting with me.

1495
01:47:29.920 --> 01:47:30.840
Been a fun time.

1496
01:47:32.239 --> 01:47:35.640
Please take a few minutes if there's anything, you know,

1497
01:47:35.880 --> 01:47:38.119
I always like guests at the end, if there's anything

1498
01:47:38.159 --> 01:47:41.279
they want to plug or you know, websites or anything,

1499
01:47:44.159 --> 01:47:47.319
by all means, go ahead.

1500
01:47:47.399 --> 01:47:52.199
You know. I'm just getting back into the public Bigfoot world.

1501
01:47:52.920 --> 01:47:55.600
I have no merch, but one day or maybe I'll

1502
01:47:55.600 --> 01:48:00.520
have merch, you know. I have. The working title of

1503
01:48:00.560 --> 01:48:06.239
my book is super Force seatco nice but could be

1504
01:48:07.439 --> 01:48:09.479
subject to change. I don't know if I like that,

1505
01:48:09.640 --> 01:48:14.920
but that I'm trying to get that out in two months, hopefully.

1506
01:48:15.199 --> 01:48:17.640
I've been telling people for years I'm going to finish it.

1507
01:48:17.720 --> 01:48:21.800
I really am close to finishing it. And yeah, finally

1508
01:48:21.840 --> 01:48:27.800
I'm gonna write my uh what I think about Bigfoot.

1509
01:48:28.640 --> 01:48:32.600
That's awesome, man, everybody really needs another take on Bigfoot.

1510
01:48:32.680 --> 01:48:36.760
Oh my god, I mean, I'll read it, dude, I'm

1511
01:48:37.439 --> 01:48:41.399
I'm pumped for it. So good stuff. Well, thanks Henry

1512
01:48:41.479 --> 01:48:44.479
for hanging out and you have a good rest of your.

1513
01:48:44.479 --> 01:48:46.439
Night there, dude.

1514
01:48:46.439 --> 01:48:47.359
Thank you very much.

1515
01:48:47.840 --> 01:48:50.600
Please take a minute to help out the show by

1516
01:48:50.760 --> 01:48:54.199
subscribing on YouTube, making sure you hit the bell so

1517
01:48:54.239 --> 01:48:57.800
you don't miss any notifications, and share the episode on

1518
01:48:57.840 --> 01:49:00.840
YouTube with a friend. Also, if you're listening to us

1519
01:49:00.880 --> 01:49:04.079
on a podcast, thank you so much. Make sure that

1520
01:49:04.119 --> 01:49:08.359
you're subscribed, share the show with a friend. Really, it's

1521
01:49:08.359 --> 01:49:09.960
all about sharing the show.

1522
01:49:09.880 --> 01:49:10.920
Wherever you can.

1523
01:49:11.199 --> 01:49:13.960
If you've had a Bigfoot encounter related to the following,

1524
01:49:14.159 --> 01:49:17.720
or know someone who has, please reach out to me

1525
01:49:18.119 --> 01:49:21.600
at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com or pass on

1526
01:49:21.680 --> 01:49:22.199
my email.

1527
01:49:23.000 --> 01:49:23.800
Here's the list.

1528
01:49:24.119 --> 01:49:26.840
If you've had any encounters in Oregon, which I'm sure

1529
01:49:26.880 --> 01:49:29.359
there's probably a few of you out there, please feel

1530
01:49:29.399 --> 01:49:32.319
free to reach out immediately. You can use email Bigfoot

1531
01:49:32.359 --> 01:49:35.600
Society at gmail dot com. A special thank you to

1532
01:49:35.760 --> 01:49:39.840
all the Bigfoot Society, Patreon and YouTube channel members. It's

1533
01:49:39.880 --> 01:49:42.680
your support that helps keep the show going and I

1534
01:49:42.760 --> 01:49:46.439
extremely appreciate it. If you want to join in the fun,

1535
01:49:47.680 --> 01:49:49.760
you can join over at Patreon dot com, forward Slash

1536
01:49:49.800 --> 01:49:54.800
the Bigfoot Society. I'll see you there and again, thanks

1537
01:49:54.880 --> 01:49:55.359
for listening.

1538
01:50:42.680 --> 01:50:44.159
Her and I can get on here. We can tell

1539
01:50:44.159 --> 01:50:47.479
our stories. Maybe there's somebody else out there listening that's

1540
01:50:47.520 --> 01:50:50.439
too afraid to tell their story. Maybe this will give

1541
01:50:50.479 --> 01:50:53.199
them the courage to come out. And I feel so

1542
01:50:53.359 --> 01:50:56.439
bad about it. Who cares what anybody thinks. I know

1543
01:50:56.520 --> 01:50:59.720
what I saw, I know what's out there. That's all

1544
01:50:59.720 --> 01:50:59.960
I can.

1545
01:51:16.239 --> 01:51:19.880
Please let people know, Please let them know.

1546
01:51:20.039 --> 01:51:21.399
If you ever see one.

1547
01:51:21.239 --> 01:51:25.000
Of these things, you need to tell because if you don't,

1548
01:51:25.359 --> 01:51:39.520
then shame on you. You have shame on you.