Hunter Looked Up—and a Blond Bigfoot Was 20 Feet Away

0:00 But it was only about 20 feet away. It was so big, if it wanted to get me, it would have had me once dried. In late fall 2005, radio host Jill Sturgis was camping alone at Whiteface Reservoir in northern Minnesota when a powerful odor began moving around his campsite. Then he noticed red eyes beyond the firelight. How did something that large get within 20 feet without making a sound? I'm Jeremiah Byron, and this is Bigfoot Society. All right, Bigfoot Society, you've got the privilege of talking to author and radio host, Mr. Joel Sturgis from up there in the North, North of where I am, right? You're up in, uh, is it Minnesota, Joel? Yeah. You know what? I'm about an hour North of Duluth, Minnesota, not too far from Lake Superior, the big lake.

0:42 Oh my goodness. That's way up there. I love it, man. I love it. It's wild. Yeah. God's country. I really do. It's wild. Yeah. Joel, you got a few things going on. I want my listeners to make sure that they're aware of, uh, You are an author, paranormal investigator. You've been a radio host and producer. You've been in this for 30 years, looking into all sorts of stuff. You're the host of After Hours AM. You've got multiple books out there. You've been on TV. You've been in events, Bigfoot events throughout the Midwest. You're doing all sorts of cool stuff. So we had you on the show today to kind of have a chat with you. You've had some interesting things happen up there in, in Minnesota, some interesting, uh, Bigfoot things, but, um, it may be just so that, uh, we know what was your introduction to the whole, the whole Bigfoot side of things before we, or maybe that, that was your introduction.

1:41 I was, okay, we got to go way, way back here. I was educated at Brown University for radio. And so I have a degree in broadcasting. And my very first brush with Bigfoot was I was working at a radio station in Texas. And, you know, when you work at a radio station and you're kind of the new guy, you get sent and all the assignments nobody else wants to do. So I ended up going out in the woods and it was the coolest experience looking back at it, how blessed I was to go. I went out with Lauren Coleman way back in 1994. We went, it was towards this time of year, September, October, and they wanted to get some creepy stuff for the creepy season coming up.

2:33 And there was a report of a Bigfoot sighting, not far from where I was in Dallas at the time. This would have been about an hour south of us, you know, in East Texas. Everyone knows East Texas where all the woods are in Texas. West Texas is more your desert. So this is East Texas we went. And so I ended up going with, at that time, an NBC affiliate. And I was working for that radio station, which happened to be the sister company of that affiliate. So we went with Lauren Coleman into these woods. And, you know, and it was really dark and it's fun. And he's talking about Bigfoot encrypted and and how that all works. And I didn't know anything about Bigfoot at the time. You know, everyone's heard of Bigfoot. I mean, it wasn't like I was unfamiliar, but it wasn't like I was a believer. I'm like, OK, that's cool. You know, people saw this big creature running around. Wow, that's something else.

3:28 And he's talking and all of a sudden out of nowhere, almost like on cue. We heard the loudest, largest, where I actually felt in my chest. And my first thought was, this is a put on. I'm like, this has got to be a put on for the cameras. It's got to be put on from him. And of course, I didn't know Lauren at the time. And I've gotten to know him over the years. And he's a very stand up guy. There's no way in a million years he would do something like that. And he starts leaving the woods. He starts walking at a brisk pace. I said, Lauren, where are you going? He says, I'm going to leave, and I kind of suggest you do too. So we're walking on these woods, and things are escorting us out of the woods. You couldn't see them, but you could hear them. It was like they're paralleling us out of the woods. And we had a camera guy that's going, I don't know what's in those woods. I'm trying to focus on it. He's freaking out. I'm freaking out a little bit. I'm thinking, dude, this is nuts. So we get out of the woods. And I say, hey, Lauren, what was that? He says, well, they said they have an aggressive Bigfoot here. I guess they weren't kidding. And, oh, my gosh, that was my introduction to the world of Bigfoot, right?

4:49 And I'm like, wow, that was something. And I kind of filed it in the back of my head, got back to the station, going, hey, you will never guess what happened here. And of course, you know, they had an audio. They were able to catch the scream and were listening to it. I'm like, yeah, listen to this stuff, guys. And so I kind of followed it in the back of my head for a few years. You know, really didn't, I mean, that was a cool experience. It made me think, well, maybe there is something out there, but it wasn't like 100% sold. Because I kept saying to myself, you know what? There's people everywhere. If there was a creature that size, somebody would have seen it by now. Or there would have been one hit by a car. Come on, there has to be a special needs Bigfoot out there somewhere, right? where, you know, it ends up getting hit by a car.

5:29 So fast forward, this is about 15, this is 2005. So we're going from 1994 to 2005. Okay. So now this is 11 years later and I am hunting. Yeah. Okay. Are you familiar Jeremiah with the Minnesota Iceman? So it comes up, it comes up on the show about once a quarter from someone's like, I saw it when I was a kid. And it's like, every once in a while it'll come up yeah. So i am actually camping at the white fist reservoir where hansen allegedly shot the minnesota ice man oh wow the ice man and which is from where i'm sitting now is only about 20 minutes away yeah and so i i used to be an avid grouse hunter and i still am You know, I still do like to get out in the woods once in a while. Mainly, I enjoy the time out in the woods, being able to walk and ground myself. And if I get something, that's great. But really what it is, is getting out, getting away from people, enjoying myself. And so it's late fall.

6:34 I'm camping at the Whiteface Reservoir Campground. It's a federal campground. I'm about the only one in this campground. And I loved it. I'm loving it because, you know, all the tourists are gone for the year and I'm by myself. All the leaves are down and, you know, it's kind of cold. It's like, you know, during the day, it's like a high of 55, 45, 55 somewhere. It's nice and crisp. And I am sitting in my campsite minding my own business. I'm cleaning my shotgun from hunting that day. And I have a nice big fire going and I'm really, I'm really enjoying this. This is just perfect weather for camping. And I, and I kept on smelling this terrible smell and I'm like, gosh, what is that smell? You know, it come and go. And I'm like, what is that? Almost, I would say it smelled like rotten fish, but it made rotten fish smell like roses. You know what I mean?

7:28 That's how bad the smell was, but it was moving. The smell was, and I attribute it to wind. You know, I thought maybe the breeze was carried from different directions. I really didn't pay it 100% in mind because I was sure that maybe there's garbage, there's something that was left. And I'm cleaning my gun and I'm minding my own business on the big campfire. I'm nice and warm. And I remember in the woods, I saw, you ever see those pictures where people take a picture of somebody and they get red eye in the picture? You know what I mean? So I'm looking, I'm seeing things. what looks like red eye. I'm like, what is that? You know, just off the campground, just off my campsite. And I'm looking and, and, and I smell that smell again. And I, and I look down and then I look up again and Jeremiah, there's a Bigfoot in front of me. I mean, it's there, it's there. I mean, I'm looking at it and he's looking at me, but it wasn't like, I'm here to scare you. It was more like, I'm here because I'm interested in you. Because nobody's supposed to be here this time of year. Nobody's out here this time of year. And it wasn't... For me, I was scared.

8:47 I mean, I'm calm now, telling the tale, but dude, I'm pretty sure I peed a little. I mean, just to be completely honest. I was frightened. It was. massive creature. Mine was not like the black, brown one you hear. Mine was more of a blonde color. Very matted hair, large. There was a birch tree he was standing next to. And I remember, look at that birch tree. It's emblazoned in my mind how tall he was versus the tree. And years later, I went back because that tree obviously is still there. And I measured it once I got the gumption to go back. But I remember also more than anything else, two things that sticks out in my mind. Number one, its eyes are very human-like.

9:37 It wasn't like it was an animal that's run on instinct. This thing was processing. I mean, he was, I say it was a he because that's the vibe I got as a male. Absolutely processing me. There was a lot of thought behind those eyes. It wasn't like you know, an animal where you see it and it just has those, you know, you know, I'm talking about words. It doesn't like a lot, not going on. Absolutely smart. And it, and I also remember its face. I remember when I was a kid, we used to flip through those books, you know, in science class, he used to show the Neanderthal with, you know, the face and he had a big protruding brow Ridge. He had large features. he was more human looking in a lot of ways than, you know, ape looking. And it looked at me for about 20 seconds, the longest 20 seconds of my life. I was stunned, frozen in fear. I didn't, I figured at this point, the only thing I had with me was a shotgun, a birdshot. And that would not have, that would have made it angry if anything, but It was only about 20 feet away. It was so big. If it wanted to get me, it would have had me in one stride.

10:50 I mean, there was nothing. There was nothing I could have done to defend myself at all. So it looked at me. I looked at it and it turned around and it left. But what it left is sound like a truck going through the woods. I mean, loud, like loud, crashing loud. One thing I've processed over the years is how did it sneak up on me being the fall of the year with all the leaves down how stealthy is that, you know, to come right up on you, not even a twig snapped. And there it was. But when it left, it was like, it was telling you, it was like someone's driving a truck through the woods. I mean, it was hitting everything. And I kind of thought to myself later on in life, I'm like, that was definitely like a show of force when it left.

11:40 Like I'm here, I'm in charge. And that's really what I think was going on. But I just remember how massive and how intelligent the look it was giving me. Just the nonverbal communication spoke to a higher intelligence than just an animal. That is wild. And that's also, it looks like, I'm looking on a map, it's about an hour north of Duluth. Would you say that's about right? Yep. Gotcha. How did that affect you after that happened? Was it a thing where you just kind of clammed up about it or were. You sharing it with people? Yeah. Yeah. Cause after it happened, it took me, well, first it took me about three years before it even entered the woods again. I knew, no, I want nothing to do with the woods, but also I try to tell, you know, talk to a couple of buddies of mine, maybe bring it up a casual conversation.

12:38 And of course I always got the, you know, you, Whatever, you know, the joking looks, you know, and or I'd become the butt of jokes, you know, like, oh, yeah, there's a big hairy man out there. Don't you don't go talk to him. So I kind of clammed up about it. And I was lucky enough to work in radio. And so I used my radio show mainly also a lot of ways to get answers for myself. So I start booking guests purposely dealing with the subject matter. After I collected myself, processed it, I started getting curious what these things are. I went from being afraid to now wondering what they are. And so I'd get people like Lauren Coleman on the show. I'd get Cliff for fighting Bigfoot.

13:26 I'd get everybody I could get. And one nice thing is I'd tell them my story, but they didn't ridicule me or laugh at me. They understood. And that was important to me because it's really– You feel so lonely when you've had a sighting and nobody believes you. But yet you had to live through this moment of terror. Because, you know, I also thought, oddly enough, when I was dealing with that Bigfoot at the time, I thought, well, my obituary is really going to read weird if it decides to kill me. You know, the funny things, you know, that kind of go through your head, right? And so I started using the MyMedia app. you know, outreach, you know, resources.

14:15 And I learned a ton. You know, I learned a lot. And then I ran into like-minded people that, you know, and they took me out, kind of showed me the ropes. And, you know, throughout the years, I bought them over 10 years now, I learned a lot about Bigfoot and other cryptids. I mean, it lit the fire on me. I started looking into every cryptid. I had the moth man, everything. It was like the door was fully open and I wanted to find out as much as I could. Oh, wow. Okay. So you, so you really, really went into it. Did you do any research about to see if other people had had similar experiences in that same?

14:57 Yeah. Yes, I did. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, after that happened, I started taking that Minnesota Iceman case, the Hanson case, seriously. You know, like, wow, obviously they're there and there's a real chance that he did shoot one. So I actually ended up finding witnesses that knew Hanson and were able to speak to what was going on at that time. Because that was 1960 that he harvested that Bigfoot. And, uh, I, I ran into, you know, I started talking, I started asking people, you know, Hey, what, what, what was your encounter like in that area? You know, when you had one, well, you know, I, I saw it from a distance and, and it looked like this and, and, and, you know, it moved like that. And, and I was the only one that had such a close encounter, you know, only a few feet away, everybody else, you know, from a distance I saw through the rifle scope or I saw it on the power line, you know, nothing that close.

15:58 But they all mentioned that level, even though it was many yards away, like 300, 400 yards away sometimes, they all had that same fear when they saw it. They all shared that same trait, that there was a certain amount of fear with it. That's really interesting. Did you feel like, well, I'm curious myself, I'm always curious about, you know, because I do a lot of reaching out to potential witnesses. And did you. Find that there was a specific way to try to track down or get in touch with these people that had the info about this area? Or was it just you kind of just fell into it?

16:49 Well, I grew up out in that area. So I knew a lot of folks. And so I started with one and they say, well, you know, I didn't see it, but so-and-so saw it. And so, and I happened to already know them. Hey, did you really see that out there? And then that's, you know, me being from there gave me a, gave them a certain amount of comfort level, you know, cause they're talking to a local. It wasn't, you know, somebody, you know, from outside coming in. I'm there, you know, I grew up there, so they already knew me. So they were really able to open up and tell me their story. And I'd say, Hey, you know what? I'd tell them mine. I would say, this is what happened to me. you know, I'd lead with that. I'd say, you know, you know, and then that, of course, that made them more comfortable to tell me theirs. And I was able to compare notes, you know, where did you see it? And what were the circumstances? What did you smell beforehand? A lot of them, you know, they talk about that same rancid, like wet dog smell, just, just, you know, I mean, just very pungent smell. And so luckily, like I said, luckily enough, I was able to kind of have that in from being a local.

17:53 Yeah, that's really smart. Mentioned that after this, you were able to get linked up with certain people and start to go out and learn the ropes and things like that. Did you have any interesting outings that happened when you started to go down the road of, I mean, you're really having these like small expeditions, it kind of sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I started small. Yeah. I mean, you know, investigation light, you know, until I really started getting deeper. Uh, yeah. Yeah. You know, I learned like TP structures, what they can mean. I, I learned, you know, um, you know, about different habitat that they, that they like, you know, I also realized, you know, that anywhere a black bear can be a Bigfoot can be right. Cause very similar food sources, uh, you know, I learned a ton from different people. And also I learned a lot about tracking skills, you know, how to track things through the woods, you know, what to look for, you know, like the branches that are broke eight, nine feet tall, if they're broken a certain way and it's a fresh break, that could be, you know, all sorts of different signs to look for when you're in the woods, you know, because it's all there. It's just that usually we're not looking for that, you know, so, you know, you almost got to start You have to learn. You got to learn how to have that skilled eye.

19:22 Absolutely. Very, very similar journey to mine, actually, when I think about it. When you're out there on these investigation-like adventures, did you have any close calls or anything happen that you think might be related to it? Nothing ever that close, obviously, but I've had the wood knocks. I've had the vocalizations. I've had all. the you know things happen uh never have i had it that close ever again i haven't had a chance to see another one like dead on like there it is you know you know um i have had some very interesting times like you know smelling that smell good oh there's there's a there's a smell that there's that pungent smell but I've never had the, I guess, pleasure or opportunity to see one again that closely, you know, and I, looking back on it, I almost feel like it was a privilege.

20:24 I mean, how many people get to see these that close really? I don't think it's a lot, to be honest. I really don't. I've talked to a lot of people, but Uh, it is a very, very, I think it's a very special thing. Um, or it's very unique to have an experience. Um, was there a time when you're out in the woods and something happened that was very hard to explain, uh, and really threw you for a loop and this can not, it doesn't have to be Bigfoot related either. Yeah. Yeah. Um, a few times I've been out in the woods and I can't explain a few things, you know, you know, and, and, uh, one of the, one of the, one of the ones that I cannot explain to this day is I actually went looking for the Wendigo of all things. Yeah.

21:20 Right. I mean, you know, who, who says let's go hunt for a Wendigo and, and, and, I went to Thief River Falls, Minnesota, where they're very prevalent on that area. And that is in our, it would be in our Northwestern part of our state. And it's, it's very Wendigo heavy believers, all the other, the native American tribes out there. And I did, I ended up going with a native American guy graciously took me out because I mean, my gosh, they don't even want to talk about the Wendigo. I mean, that is, And we're going to get to that in a minute. That's a very taboo subject matter in their culture.

22:01 It's like talking to Navajo about skinwalkers. You just don't go up there and say, hey, what about them skinwalkers? It's very, very sacred in a lot of ways. You just don't do it. And so I happened to befriend a Native American gentleman. He was a tracker and he was a guide. And we went out to the woods and he says, you want to go out and look for a windigo? I'll Take you out. But remember, it's at your own risk. This is nothing to be trifled with. This is real, just so you understand that. I said, I absolutely understand the risk. I absolutely am willing to. I don't know if that's naive of me. I think it was a little bit too, you know, to say, oh, I get those risks. Yeah, let's get out there. Let's go look for basically a woods demon. What could possibly go wrong? So, and of course they looked at me like crazy, you know, you don't look like, you know, I'd look at myself today going crazy. So we were, we were out in the woods and I'll never forget.

23:05 I'm sitting there and I'm watching this glimmer that looks like saran wrap in the woods. That's the only way I can, that I can even tell you what it looks like. It looked like a piece of saran wrap moving from tree to tree to tree, jumping from tree to tree to tree. And I'm watching the saran wrap. Like I said, it's the only thing I can compare it to because it's completely transparent. But you can see its outline. And it's shimmering. This is during the day. It's almost shimmering in the sun. And the tracker goes, we are leaving now. We're out of here. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. This is so cool.

23:47 What is it? We are leaving now. I mean, absolutely no... full stop, we are leaving. And I'm trying to take pictures. I'm trying to, you know, see what this is. And he says, listen here, we are leaving. We are leaving now, with or without you. And so, of course, I'm like, all right, all right, all right, let's go. So we get back to town, back to the reservation. And he says, you need to go see our medicine man. Why? He says, you saw a Wendigo and you cannot You are marked. You are a hundred percent marked. You need to go get cleansed now. You need to get this off of you, which I'm at the time. I'm like, come on guys. You know what I mean? In my mind, I'm going, that was the coolest few minutes of my life.

24:39 What are you talking about? They're terrified. And then I found out why I went and spoke with them. And they said, when you see a Wendigo, you, they remember you as much as you remember them. Hmm. And they will track you. They will stalk you. That is, in essence, a forest demon. Man, there's some really big similarities to stuff I've heard in the Bigfoot field with this. I mean, have you ever seen the Barb Shoup video where it's a video she took where you can see something and it looks...

25:21 the way you described it, it's, it's pretty much, you know, like a cloaked figure. I haven't heard about her. Look into that. How, how, how tall was, could you tell how tall it was or? Yeah. You know, I guess if I had to measure it, it would have been about six to seven feet tall. Okay. You know, it was large, but it was in the trees. It was actually, but it put no weight on the trees. That, that was the weirdest part about it. was it was like it was weightless. And like I said, it was transparent. It almost looked like glimmering. I guess the other way I could describe it for our listeners is the movie Predator. Right, exactly.

26:07 Where you kind of see that shimmer go on. And everybody that was in the know, they knew. And they were absolutely done with that moment. They wanted out. I would have stayed. I mean, I was thinking, well, man, because I even said at one point, well, I'm just going to stay. You guys can go. And that was not an option. We were all leaving. There was no option at all. I was, yeah, they were not messing around. Yeah, absolutely. I'm thinking more I'm thinking through all the people I've talked to real quick. Man, I had this one guy in Pennsylvania, Westmoreland County, Hunter, and he's up in his tree stand and he looks down and he sees something beneath him described the same way you described it, walking underneath his tree stand. And then you've got David Pilates in one of his documentaries where there's another witness that sees something something predator effect cloaking.

27:20 And it really. Makes you wonder once you start to hear all these, these similar things and what you experienced, like what is really going on out there? Right. Right. And, and, and of course I probed them for answers and they didn't want to give answers. And rightfully so, you know, that was, not something that i was meant to see that was not something i should have went out and and of course when we were done and i spoke with their medicine man and he was sage and smoke and some salts on me you know and and they were done taking me out in the woods they they said hey if you want to go out on your own that's your risk we're not going back out there oh wow.

28:11 They're like, we're not taking this guy. He's a magnet for something. Yeah, we are not going out there again. Yeah, yeah. And they advised me as well not to go back out because if I did, it would be at my own peril. Wow. So I'm guessing you never went back out to that area is my guess. No, no. I guess a lot of it too is when you've got 15 people going– You really feel like dying today? You really feel, I mean, you know, you kind of start taking them seriously, you know, when they're, they're absolutely dead pan serious. They're, they're not, they're not messing around. They're not screwing around at all. They're telling you the way it is.

28:56 Absolutely. I mean, we already had a, we actually did a, I did a prayer before. This interview starts. I was like, I just have a feeling we're going to get into some territory. We're just going to do it at the beginning before we start recording. Well, you know, I'm also a devout Christian. And to be honest, my faith is really a couple of things. I was always a Christian. Grew up Lutheran. My faith became stronger. Based on what you've experienced over the years, do you have any thoughts as to what Bigfoot is? How is it able to be categorized in your mind of what it is we're dealing with?

29:42 Well, I can only go off of what I saw, my own account. And for me, and I don't begrudge anyone that has any other ideas because it's all open until we have definitive answers. For me, it's a flesh and blood creature. It was definitely... there and it was flesh. It was blood. I mean, there, there's a lot of great theories out there about maybe being interdimensional or doing this or doing that. I understand that. Like I said, I'm begrudging anyone with those views, but in my own opinion right now, unless I'm proven otherwise, I do believe it's a flesh and blood creature with some extraordinary stealth skills.

30:24 Exactly. Um, but I, I agree. I agree with you on that. Definitely extraordinary stealth skills. You're probably familiar with the term high strangeness because of having 30 years in the field, in related fields as well. Have you ever experienced anything that could be considered high strangeness in correlation with looking at Bigfoot things? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have. I was on a Bigfoot investigation, and I happened to be in north by the Canadian border.

31:06 And I was with my colleagues, and it was a nice night, a nice clear night. And we were looking for Bigfoot, and I just happened to look up, and I remember seeing this light in the sky. And it was doing like purple colors and pink colors, just all the colors that are not associated with any kind of FFA regulation. And it starts to dance around in the sky doing figure eights, moving back and forth like super fast. I'm watching this thing. And no one's paying attention to it yet. I'm the only one watching this. And I'm watching and I go, hey, guys, what is that? And we all stop. We look up. And I remember I interviewed Travis Walton, and I guess this should have been a cautionary tale. I took my flashlight and I did the whole, you know, let's communicate back and forth. And this thing starts flashing exactly what I flashed at it, back at me. And it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

32:15 I mean, it started off as look a golf ball in the air and then became a beach ball. And then it became bigger and bigger and bigger. So it's getting closer to us. And, and, and so, you know, I'm in awe of what we're looking at. I've forgotten all about Bigfoot at this point. I could, you know, I'm like, wow, what is that in the sky? And so I I'm flashing minutes flashing back, but it's getting closer and I start feeling, you know, the, hair on my arms start rising up and i'm like what is going on here and everybody decided all at once it was almost like a scooby-doo moment hey let's get in the truck and go somewhere else to go look for y'all do this so we all pile in the truck we go about 15 miles down the road you know get out of that area go to a different site where they had some bigfoot activity and i get out of the truck i look up and there's that light it had followed us to the second location And I was going to do the whole flashlight thing. And I remember a guy named Mike grabs my hand. He says, let's not do that. Let's just leave now. Let's just call it a night. So we did. That was so strange, you know, having that happen. I guess you can't call the UFO because I couldn't identify it. And it was putting out colors out there that you would never associate with, you know, an airplane. And it was able to do aerial acrobatics that would destroy any other airplane out there. Okay.

33:48 That's wild. So you would consider it more a UFO rather than an orb. Yeah. I'm assuming it was a UFO, not an orb. You know, I have my thoughts on orbs and, and, This was more way up in the sky. I'm talking, it started way up in the sky and started making its way down to communicate more to us. And when I was going to continue, I'm that guy that's, hey, let's try this next, which I've learned over the years investigating. Sometimes you just got to quit while you're still ahead. You know, you don't need to keep pushing the envelope.

34:31 Yeah, no, I get that. And that's actually some advice I've gotten from a lot of different Bigfoot researchers, which is like, Hey, you don't have to stay in the area until you're forced out. You can figure a nice time to leave and leave respectfully. That's kind of a big deal. So have you had interactions with orbs then over the years? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I, I, I, I, have an interesting orb story now when i used to live down south there was this pond called rossi's pond and it had a story behind it it was the lover's lane car goes in the pond they drown well you know of course there's the local lore that if you go there at a certain time when the when it happened you can actually see these ghosts rise from the water and walk out onto the beach and walk away from the lake. Well, me being me, me and Mr. at the time didn't know when to stop pushing. I'm like, I'm going to go try that. Because everybody was telling me, kept telling me, hey, have you heard about this pond? Have you heard it? Finally, I went. And so I'm there and I'm at this sign time and I'm watching and I'm watching. I'm sitting in my vehicle at the time. And of course, I see these two balls of light, orbs come up from the pond. And I'm watching. And I'm like, what the hell are those? I was thinking maybe fireflies or something,

36:04 trying to rationalize it. And they come out from the lake, these two orbs. And they're bouncing like somebody's walking, like how you'd walk. But I'm watching them bounce. They're going up and down, up and down, up and down. And they pass right by my truck, these two orbs. It's two people walking side by side. They go right by the truck. And I get out of my truck and I'm watching these things and I get out of there and I look and where these orbs were, there were also footprints. Oh, no way. So they were leaving footprints as they're walking. So, you know, shoes, like one was like, you know, a pair of work boots.

36:49 Another one was like, you know, like what the girls used to wear, those saddle shoe things back in the day. Were they just, or sorry, sorry. I was just going to ask, or were they just wet? Like, I'm trying to think of like, I've seen in movies where it's like, you see the wet footprints appear or were they actually leaving indentations? Indentations. Wow. Like actual shoes. Like somebody was wearing these shoes, you know? And, and I'm like, and there's nothing there beforehand. I was, I looked and you know, the beach was, pristine there was no footprints there was no nothing you know and so i and so i watched this happen and and uh yeah i had one of those disposable cameras you know with the flat cardboard ones you could get at the drugstore with me and so i'm taking these pictures and then you know and they kept walking down the road and the footprints kept going until they went in the woods and and they ended It was the craziest orb moment I ever had in my life.

37:55 And ever since I've never seen anything like it. It was, it was very, very high strangeness. That's something that's some weird stuff. I don't get that whole phenomenon myself. Yeah. I've experienced it once in Tennessee, but you start hearing all these stories and it's like, it seems like it's a common denominator between, uh, You can have ghost accounts. You can have Bigfoot accounts. I'm sure there's other different categories where they appear. It's just one of those weird common denominators that are in all the stories. And it's like, I don't really understand what's going on there yet. But it is very, very, I mean, it's high strangeness.

38:37 It's absolutely strange. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because these orbs were self-illuminated and they're making their own light. So now when I see orbs that people send me orb pictures, I'm like, nope, that's dust. Nope, that's a bug. How do you know? Because I've seen real orbs. That is not how they look. Yeah. Yeah, I'm right there. I'm right there with you, dude. It's weird, man. It's very, very, very weird. Uh, you, you've mentioned a few times, uh, you know, you, you have, uh, you've been able, I've, I've imagined you've done just probably hundreds and hundreds. Of interviews over the years for your show. You're probably way up there. Is there, uh, an interview that you were able to do that just was like, it really sticks out to you at the end. You're like, oh, that was just like, man, if I cut it off right now, like I could be happy.

39:26 Like, you know, yes, yes. But there's a story behind the interview okay uh okay um let me take you back to when i was a young radio guy and i got my very first job at my very first radio station after graduating and it was um of all things and anyone that likes country music don't don't take this the wrong way but i'm personally not country music guy but if you are god bless you i got a job at a classic country music radio station working nights and it wasn't ideal it wasn't what i was after i wanted to set the world on fire i wanted to be the you know the next big voice in radio but you know i had to start somewhere and so i was working at this radio station and um i was working overnights and and every Every morning, every Sunday morning, there was a guy named Roy Johnson and he was a real cowboy.

40:20 I mean like legit cowboy, like at this time, this is circa 1994, five, somewhere in there. And, um, so he was already his, in his eighties at this point, and he had lived a full life, like Boston Bronx and doing a whole, you know, he used to tell me about driving cattle from Kansas to Texas, you know, like the real cowboy stuff, riding the ranch. But he kind of fell into radio, you know, later in life where he found his passion to talk about his stories on air. And he'd play his old school country music, you know, like old Hank Williams and Merle Haggard and stuff like that. And so I got to know him really well. He was a really a nice guy. And but anyhow. Every Sunday morning, he'd come in for his radio show. And I would always do what we used to call, they're called ramps. And that's just a long set of music before the next DJ comes into the booth.

41:18 And if you like the next DJ that's coming in, you'll give them like a 20-minute ramp. That way, they don't have to run into the station and get in, sit down, and start working right away. If you don't like them, you give them a five-minute ramp and say, there you go, man. Do your thing. So Roy, I always give him a generous 20-minute ramp. And really the reason why I did that was so I could go talk to him. Cause I just enjoyed talking to me. I always had some great stories and stuff like that. And so I was, uh, like any other Sunday morning, Roy shows up to the, to the station and, and he used to wear, he used to wear a really heavy dose of Stetson cologne. You'd smell them before you'd come in, you know, not old days, you know, where Stetson cologne, he'd drink his black coffee and, you know, and he'd have always in a styrofoam cup and, you know, always talk a little bit about baseball, big Texas Ranger fan. And, uh, you know, and, and, and so we're talking back and forth and nothing's a mess at this point. Everything's normal. He's, he's drinking his coffee, smelling like Stetson. And he says, well, I gotta go get to work. And I said, all right, Roy, good talking to you. And so I'm leaving now. This is a two story radio station where our broadcast booths are upstairs and And our legal stuff, you know, like to sell radio time and traffic and all that stuff is downstairs. So, and you had to go through this long hallway with offices left and right of you. And at the very end was the general manager's office. And my general manager at the time, his name was Dennis.

42:49 And Dennis was an old school radio guy. I mean, he was hard living, but I'll tell you one thing, he didn't like to be there on weekends. And to see him there on a Sunday, you know, the station would have had to be on fire for Dennis to be at the station on Sunday, like something terrible has gone on. Well, so there's Dennis stand at the end of the hallway. My first thought, Jeremiah, to be honest, was that I'm getting fired. My radio career is done. And once you get fired in radio back, especially back in those days, it wasn't like podcasting stuff today. You're done in the business because they blackball you like, oh, yeah, because it travel quick you know why you got fired so i was nervous i was gonna get fired so i walked up to dennis and i said dennis uh you know what brings you into the radio station you know how's it going you know trying to gauge what his mindset was he says well he says i i i got i'm here because i gotta fill a fill a you know a shift i'm like well i'm thinking myself i'm here roy is here everybody that needs to be at the station sunday morning is here So I tell him, no, if you got a call, you know, like someone was sick or what have you, you know, we're all here. We're all counted for and we're all working.

44:08 He says, no, that just can't be. That's impossible. And I said, well, Dennis, what do you mean? He says, Roy died last night. Wow. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Hold on. Roy died. He says, yeah, his wife called me because... you know, to let me know what had happened to him. You know, she woke up, he was unresponsive. He had a heart attack in his sleep. He passed away. And I turned white and I, and I, and I said, that, that just can't be that. That just, that just can't be Dennis.

44:49 Why? He says, Roy's upstairs. I talked to him. I talked to him for 10 minutes. He's upstairs. He's upstairs. So I turn around and I start making my way back up to the studios. And Dennis says, well, where are you going? And I said, well, I'm going to show you Roy's here. Let's, you know, let's go. See, he humors me and we go upstairs and there's no Roy. The station is empty. Like, and my ramp is almost done. Like I'm on my last song of that ramp up. And I remember I went in the break room because it was adjacent to our broadcast booths. And I sat down and Dennis is, are you all right? I mean, you know, he thought I was broken up by Roy dying.

45:33 We were close. And I said, no, you don't understand. Roy was here. I talked to him and, and for a second there, I started questioning my own sanity that maybe I was, but hit the cup he was drinking out of still the hot coffee on the table and the smell of Stetson was still in the air. And so it was all there. right? And so I'm like, this really, Dennis, this really happened. And, and of course, see it in his eyes where he was like, you know, right. Maybe you're just a shock. I knew you knew the guy really well. You'd been working with him a few years. He says, you know, I know you got a weekend because this Sunday, I had Tuesday, you know, Monday, Tuesday off.

46:17 He says, why don't you take an extra day? We'll get somebody to fill in for your, you know, just take a few days off and, and maybe just need some time to, you know, cause I was a night shift. Gather yourself, you know, get some rest. And so what really scared me almost more than seeing Roy was it dawned on me on my days off. What am I going to do if he comes back? What am I going to do if I'm in the station by myself, knowing what I know now and Roy comes back? Because bear in mind, I'm a 27-year-old kid. I'm damn near fresh out of college. I don't have the tools to deal with any of this. And at this time, I wasn't into the paranormal. I mean, I knew I'd done a little investigating because I had to for the station during Halloween time. But it wasn't like I was deep into this. So I had no idea what to do.

47:14 And so I prayed to the good Lord. I'm like, Lord, please just protect me from this. that I don't want to deal with that. So after a few days goes by and, and, and I go back to work and, and I try to, you know, gauge how people, you know, when I kind of said to a buddy of mine, yeah, something happened weird the other morning. And of course, no, everyone looked at me like I was from Mars, you know, like, Oh, sure. Sure. That happened. Yeah. And Casper showing up for the third shift tonight, you know, right. So I kind of backed off because the last thing you want is to get the labels that crazy guy, right, in the office. You don't want that label of that weirdo, you know. And so I ended up getting another job. I started looking for other broadcast positions. And I happened to find one at a CPS affiliate. So as soon as I was able to get that station, I did. And I was working there and I used to be a board op for a show called Coast to Coast AM.

48:19 Oh, I was just going to ask you. Yeah, and I was the board op. Because back in those days, we didn't have automation like we do. Your work kicks over. You had to have somebody hit the buttons to get them on. And so I got to know Art Bell really well. I was just going to ask you this. Yeah, we would talk quite often. Me and Art actually became quite close. Wow. And so I had this great idea. Yeah. went to my program director and I said, Hey, you know, we're in a big market. We're in the Dallas market. Why don't we get a good solid lead in show for coast to coast? Because coast to coast has all these sponsors. Maybe we could get those same sponsors to want to, because in radio, you got to talk to them about dollars and cents.

49:07 They don't care about anything else, but the money, right? So if you say, Hey, I want to get a paranormal show going because I want to answer my own ghost questions. They're going to say, no, But if you say, hey, I want to create a show that can create revenue, then they're more apt to listen. So I went up to my program director. I said, hey, I think that if we did a local call-in show like a coast-to-coast, we can actually double up on our revenue. I said, well, that's a great idea. Why don't you go over and talk to Bob down there, my general manager and the new general manager that I had. Run up by him, see if he will let you have any kind of airtime because airtime is precious. And so I went and talked to him and I said, hey, Bob, I think that we can get a good solid lead in show for Coast to Coast AM. And Bob didn't even like Coast to Coast. He goes, oh, that trash. I'm like, yeah, but he liked it because it made him money. That was the only reason why the people were wrong, because it was making him money. But he didn't believe in any of that stuff. He says, oh, yeah, the woo-hoo show.

50:13 You know what? He says, tell you what. I don't necessarily agree with what you're telling me, that we can get a show like that going. But I will give you one hour on the AM side. After hours, though. It has to be after hours AM is when it has to be. I said, all right. We can do that. And I had some buddies of mine that worked on the FM side that said, hey, if you guys have nothing to do tonight, turn into this radio station on the AM side. We got a great new show that's coming on. You might want to tune in and see what he has to say. So they threw me on them behind the microphone, no prep or anything. They're like, well, go do your show. Show us what you got. No guest, no prep, no nothing. They even have intro music. So I cracked the microphone and I said, well, I don't know what to call this thing. But for now, it's called After Hours AM because that's all they give us is after hours on the AM side. And so the lines start lighting up, like people start calling because I put it out there. Hey, have you ever seen anything weird?

51:17 Call me. This is the call in number. Have you ever seen this happen? You ever have that happen? People start calling in like mad from that area. They want to talk about the weird things that they'd seen. Because nobody else is listening. And trying to call in the coast to coast was a million to one odds you're going to be getting on there to talk about it. It was so flooded with so many calls. So here I had this audience that were calling in and we really became a hit. We did really well with that show. But what I did was because of what I endured with Roy, I used that opportunity to book like Hans Holzer. the Warrens, all these different paranormal investigators come on the air really to answer my own questions about the paranormal.

52:04 Like I wanted answers. Was this normal? Tell them what happened to me. And they're like, no, that actually is very normal what you're talking about. A lot of people experience that. You're not the only one. And they just, you know, kind of tell me stories and, and really, Another big source at the time was a guy named Brad Steiger out of Iowa. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. And we became close friends. At that time, I'd call him or write him letters, and we'd correspond back and forth. And that's really how I got my start in this whole paranormal investigation. So I kind of took it from there and started getting more answers for myself using the radio show to get answers for myself.

52:52 It's such a fascinating story. Wild, wild stuff. So if you would be willing to have the discussion, what was it like being able to, you know, have that kind of relationship with Art Bell and being able, like, what was it like to just kind of to talk to him? Do you have any fond memories? Art was very down to earth. You know, he gave me a lot of pointers and talk radio. He gave me a lot of pointers, you know, and, and especially when I started the show, you know, um, I'd call him up and I'd say, Hey, art, you know, what, what do you suggest I do for the lead in show in this market? You know, for you, I mean, you know, and we talked for a couple hours here and there and, and we talked shop and he, he kind of tell me what he does and how he builds the audience, how he builds the tension. you know, really kind of sat me down and said, hey, if you want to do this genre of talk radio, because it's unlike anything else in the world, this genre of talk radio. It's not like politics. It's not like anything else.

53:55 You're setting a stage for those listeners. It's truly theater of the mind. And you're setting a comfortable place for them to come talk. And that also is equally as important. So they don't feel like the caller or the guest don't feel like they're being judged. That is fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. So you were, I want to make sure I have it right. So you were a board op. Is that like board operator for coast to coast AM? Yeah. Yep. For our market. Yep. And can you explain a little bit about what that actually means? A board operator. So when coast to coast to come on the air, we had to, they called it a gateway at that time. And, and, And it was done through way back in the day.

54:43 It was done through a T1 line is what we were using at that time. And so we had a T1 line and you'd actually have to hit the initiate button on the board. So it bring air and it bring art into our airwaves. And so it basically opened the gate for that signal to come through. But while you're there, you had to put the commercials in. Because you get tones in your ear that Art's getting ready to go to commercial. You get a tone in your ear, not like, hey, we're going to commercial. It'd be a tone. And then you hit a button for our local commercials to hit. And then that would play while Art was doing his own thing. Every market had that tone that went through. So you knew when to hit your button for your commercials. And so I did that for several years.

55:33 But what was cool is I got paid to listen to Coast to Coast Amps. I got paid to listen to Art Bell. I remember I was a board op when Mel's Hole happened. Oh, my goodness. Oh, man. So you remember Mel's Hole live? I do. I was there and I'm listening to Mel Waters on. And we had him on our show. We actually talked to Mel Waters. We actually got him booked to talk about his hole as well. And, and what a wild show, you know, cause it was totally unexpected. It was during open call, open lines. Yeah. You know, and so I'll never forget that cause I'm listening. What do you mean this guy has got an endless hole in Washington? You know, so I'm listening and I'm almost missing my tone in my ear to go to commercial cause I'm so enthralled with what he's saying. And so, you know, then I hit the tone and go to commercial, but when When I'm on commercial, I have one, I can also hear Art talking to his guest. Yeah, I mean, so our stuff is playing, but I'm also hearing their end real time. So yeah, yeah. So you learn a lot about strategizing for your show by listening to what they're doing too. You know, I learned a lot of different things, a lot of different techniques that worked really well over the years. Still do, still do.

56:55 Oh yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, those lessons could be used forever. So what's your take on the Mel's whole thing when you were able to have the conversation with him yourself? What is your take on that? He, you know, talking, it's such a wild story. You have everything from salamander-like creatures coming out of there to his cancer being cured. You know, I believe he believes. Let's just put it that way. I believe he believes I, I, I, I have a hard time believing that there's an endless hole in Washington, you know, that, that there's this, this hole. I mean, he talks about having many, many miles of fishing line and doing this and doing that. And, and, you know, as dog coming back from, from being dead, you know, so it's, it's quite honestly, it's, it's, I, like I said, I believe he believes he's passed away now, but.

58:00 Oh yeah. Yeah. I w I would imagine. So you, it's just incredible. That you're able to have such a personal connection to that point of paranormal history. I mean, were you, do you remember then like the area 51 caller? I do. Yeah. Oh my goodness. You were there for that. Yeah. I was there board op for all the shows. So, you know, I would hear all of the, you know, all the, I remember when Bob Lazar came on for the first time too. Oh, wow. Doing that. And, you know, it was, it was, it was very interesting time to be in radio. Did you, did you have any idea because you're thinking of all these, like these episodes and segments from art show and like, they are just touch points. Like they're very important. paranormal history and did you have any idea at the time like wow what I'm listening to right now is extremely important or you just kind of like this is a ride and I'm along for it and this.

59:04 Is a little bit of both you know because because it was when they would talk that, you know, it was, it was so interesting, you know, what they're talking about. Number one, but number two had a job to do too. So I always had to keep my mind on what I was doing. So I really couldn't like, you know, but what would happen is I would say, Hey, Art, I'll give him a call. And I'd say, hey, Art, can I get the information to that guest you had on this episode that night? Yeah. Yeah, we can do that for you. And he would send me their information. And I'd give him a call. I'd offer him to come on. A good fair bit of him. Yeah, absolutely. We'll come on. We'll talk. And so, you know, I was kind of using his knowledge to get a lot of the people to come on my show because I wanted to hear more. I wanted to ask them my own questions.

59:54 You're the luckiest man alive. So, So I guess talking specifically about After Hours AM, how can my listeners check out your show? Yeah, it's an iHeartRadio show. So absolutely pop on the iHeart app, type in After Hours AM. You'll find that we have over a decade of shows out there that you can download. We have hundreds of episodes. Enjoy it. And of course, I'm accessible to anyone that wants to talk to me. I'm very accessible on Facebook. I have a website at joelstrudgesbooks.com. You can get a hold of all the books I'm selling, pre-orders, stuff like that. But again, you know, I'm just very accessible. I answer everybody when they get a hold of me on Facebook or email.

1:00:41 You know, I get a hold of everyone, talk about it. And those days in radio, you know, they're special days. You know, I don't know that we're ever going to repeat those days. but it was cool to be a part of it. Oh, it's so cool. It's so cool, man. I, I got, I got a few more. I'm, I'm, this is a fun one because, uh, uh, there are certain interviews where I will just nerd out too. And so the questions are for me, uh, if you get what I mean. Uh, I've done the same thing many times, man. Did you have, did you have any connection with, to or did you have any interviews with people connected to skinwalker ranch over.

1:01:23 The years oh absolutely yeah many times yeah the original owners were on um you had the sherman's on i had the sherman's on many times and he explains how he put that 357 magnum right to that you know he shot that wolf and and you know and and and he really went a deep detail on in fact i've been to skinwalker ranch Myself, I put feet on there before Bigelow owned it. And talk about a trip, that area. It is, yeah, yeah. How did you get to Skinwalker pre-Bigelow? I knew their original owners. Oh, my goodness. So you were like, you talked to the Shermans, and then you had a good rapport, and they were like, come on out.

1:02:09 Yeah, they invited me out. They said, hey, do you want to come check it out? Because we're looking to sell. And we don't know who's going to own it next. Do you want to buy it, Joel? Right, right. And I didn't have enough money, obviously, to buy. I'm just a low-paid radio guy. Otherwise, I so would have bought it. They let me know that they're looking to leave and looking to sell. And if I want to come on and check the location out, because I got to know them quite well. I talked to them on the phone quite a bit. I'd call them just to talk to them, like social calls. You know, how are you guys doing? You know, what's new? And, you know, and it was never for that reason to get on the ranch. But, you know, it didn't hurt that we were friends. So, you know, I went out there and it was definitely, yeah, it was a weird, weird place.

1:03:01 It was crazy. Did you have stuff happen when you're out? Did anything weird happen? Yeah. That was the first time, and one of the only times, I actually witnessed a time slip. UFOs were everywhere. Some of these UFOs looked organic. They looked like creatures, almost like sea creatures. You know, some of them, as weird as that sounds, they almost looked aquatic. Yep. You know, not like mechanical, but like living organisms.

1:03:48 You're seeing this with your eyes there. Yes. Yes. Okay. Are you, when you say like sea creatures, are you talking about like, I'm thinking the jellyfish? Yeah. Yeah. Like jellyfish, squid. You know um plankton you know just really really very odd okay and and what year would i think i would expect more this would have been circa 1996 dude. This is wild you're like hanging out at skinwalker ranch with the sherman's on And it. Was before Skinwalker Ranch. I mean, it was just the ranch.

1:04:31 Yeah, it was just the Sherman Ranch. It was just the Sherman Ranch. So it wasn't Skinwalker or anything. It was just their ranch that they were having some weird encounters on. They had dog men out there. They had Bigfoot out there. Yeah, they saw it all out there. And yeah, they had all. all of it out there, but mainly the big headliner though, was the ET stuff, the, the stuff in the sky, the extraterrestrial stuff, you know, was, was, was the, the big thing. And it didn't disappoint. No, absolutely. So they were telling you stories about dog man and Bigfoot on the ranch.

1:05:12 Yeah. Yeah. They, they, he'd actually shot a shot at a, what they didn't call dog man back then. He said the upright walking dog. And he ended up shooting at it. Okay. And wow. I don't think I've ever heard that one. Yeah. You said it looks like a walking wolf. A person like a person walking. And the body of a wolf. Because you've got the story of what most people think is the dire wolf on four legs. Yes. But or something that would they tried to shoot it and they couldn't take it down.

1:05:54 Right. That was the one that had his I think he told me his cow or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And he told me that story. He had a 357 Magnum Smith and Wesson point blank range, put several rounds into this dire wolf or wolf. He just called it a wolf and it didn't kill it. In fact, it didn't even acknowledge the rounds going into it. Mm hmm. And allowed. Oh, my goodness. So a. Bipedal dog-like creature on their ranch. Was this like around– did they say it was like around a certain area of the ranch or it was just like kind of all over?

1:06:36 It was kind of sporadic. When I was speaking with them, they were seeing it in different areas. The reason why he shot at it is because it was taking– trying to take some of their livestock. And that's why he was firing at it. Not because he saw it, because it was actively trying to take, harass his livestock. Yeah. Okay. When I think of Bigfoot and Skinwalker Ranch, I think of, there's a story you always hear about, like the, I think like the bipedal creature coming out of the portal and that's in the book. But you're saying there were other things he was talking about that had to do with Bigfoot, really?

1:07:16 Yep. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Do you remember any of those or well, you. Know, a lot of data, a lot of sightings on the ranch about, you know, hominids they'd seen from afar. They were never worried about the big foot. There was more, the wolf creatures that were harassing the livestock because they're making money. That was their livelihood, you know? So that was, you know, that was the thing that they're really worried about the big foot creature. They just called it a hairy creature. never messed with their with their you know with anything they'd see it but it was never aggressive it never made a move towards any of the animals you know so they never had a reason to you know have to defend themselves but it was more the canine you know creatures that were that were harassing them more than anything else.

1:08:10 It's wild it's like they've had so much stuff going on they're like we're just going to focus on the like the things that are trying to cause us harm and the other stuff, they can, they can hang out over there. It's no problem. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like, you know, and yeah, there's some weird things here, but you know, it was almost like they didn't care as long as they didn't mess with the livestock. Right. Yeah. Cause that's, yeah, it totally makes sense as ranchers, you know? Uh-huh. Um, did they ever, oh man. Okay. So as the, Background for me, I don't know if you know this, so I'm going, I'm halfway through cancer treatment right now. So like part of the thing that's helping me through is I'm like nerding out on the Skinwalker deal right oh thank.

1:08:56 You god god bless you and may the lord. Heal you thank you thank you um so that's why i'm so interested in this because it's like i'm nerding out on it as part of like it's helping me through this right so it's fascinating to talk to someone that was able to be connected in in such a way did they ever talk about like um Um, was it, did they even call it homestead too? Or, or like, you know what I'm talking about? Like that. Yeah, I know. I know what you're talking about. They never really, they just call it, kind of called it the ranch. Yeah. I mean, they just, their property, you know, they didn't really. Just weird stuff. Wow. You know, they just said, Hey, we got some oddities.

1:09:38 And I really met them through art. Art knew them. And then, then of course I started talking with them on the side and, and I got to know them real well, the family real well. and so I was able to, you know, get access. And I, and at that time, you know, it wasn't, like I said, it wasn't called Skinwalker Ranch. It was just their, their homestead. It was just where they lived. And they invited me out to come, you know, check it out. If I wanted to come stay in one of the, they had a lot of outbuildings, a lot of bunk houses and stuff like that. And so I'd stay and they, they, you know, rare and daring folks and very, very salt of the earth kind of people. And, and, And if they claim they saw it, you can take that to the bank, man. Cause they saw it. They were not the type that would, you know, to me anyway, that were really, you know, they didn't, they didn't really do flights of fancy. They just kind of set up Leon, very, very normal rancher type people. Right.

1:10:37 So, so you were staying in the bunk houses, so not their actual house. Um, So if you– I don't know if you've seen like the current show and like the current Stay at the Ranch. I never watched an episode of the show. It would be really interesting to have you watch the new show and because like everything, some of it is broken down and be like, oh, that area that they're always talking about, like I was staying in there in the 90s. That would be extremely interesting. I can do that. Yeah. I don't watch– you know, to be honest, I don't watch a lot of paranormal TV because I find it boring. You know, it's like, well, I've already been there. But no, I will. I'll check that out. In your archives then of After Hours AM, do you have then an episode with the Shermans if you go far back enough?

1:11:25 They've fallen off because that was in the 90s. So I can get you though. I still have that episodes though on my computer. So I can get those to you in MP3 form. That would be amazing. Dude, do you have like, you got to put that old archival stuff up. Yeah. Well, I was going to be doing that. Yeah. That's the plan. Yeah. Is that we're going to be circling back around and doing that. And we're going to be doing the old. Stuff, you know, that's the stuff people want that stuff. Yeah. Oh, you know, they definitely do. And, you know, that radio back then, no offense to anyone doing radio.

1:12:06 Now it was a hundred times better than it is today. Yeah. You know, and I don't know if it's because it was just so new or, I mean, so unheard of at the time, but it's just a different feel, you know, when you listen to those. And I think it's because how these people didn't want to make a buck, right? These people weren't interested in, you know. when you, I'm sure you're a very accomplished radio host and you know, when you have someone on the show, that's looking for the, you know, the fame, right. That they're looking, you know, to further their agenda. These folks had no agenda. Right. They just wanted to say, Hey, this is what we experienced.

1:12:47 Take it or leave it. We don't care if you believe us or not. Man, it's wild. Were you, so, you know, back in that time period, did you go to other places as well to, to investigate it as part of your your show you had or is that kind of like an outlier going to the it was an. Outlier because you know i didn't get paid to go you know do any of this stuff you know i mean the radio station i wish it would have been so cool you know um if they would have paid for my trips but i get invited like to the queen mary back in the day hey you want to come to the queen mary check it out and this is way back before it was so you know You know, all these paranormal places like Waverly Hills before it was all popular and stuff.

1:13:31 Oh, man. Yeah. You know, people that knew, you know, because back then it was just a place in Kentucky that was haunted. And I think it was at that time the state owned Waverly Hills. And nobody, you know, and so we kind of snuck in, so to speak, you know, with, you know, with some friends. Allegedly. Allegedly. And so, yeah, it was long before the hype. Well, you know, to be honest, Jeremiah Goldstein, Shows like Ghost Hunters when it came out, you know, kind of, you know, like blew up the paranormal. Exactly. Before then, nobody really talked about it. I mean, there were people like us that obviously were talking about it, but it wasn't to the mass. It wasn't to the masses yet where it was, you know, you know, where Ghost Hunters now is a household word. It wasn't really like that then. People didn't really discuss it a lot.

1:14:19 I mean, it must have been, it's such an interesting time right now, how prevalent everything is. You didn't happen to have like a video camera going when you were at the Sherman ranch, like just like, Hey, I'm traveling around and this is my nineties. I couldn't afford one. Oh man. You know, this is back in the nineties and camcorders were big and heavy and expensive. I was just, yeah. Right. Poor radio dude, you know? And, and so I was just trying to experience what they're telling me over the air. So, you know, and we just like I said, we became good friends and I wasn't there. I was really there as a guest and as a friend, not as a, you know, observer or as an investigator. I was there just because I was hanging out with my friends.

1:15:00 That's so cool. Oh, that is. I love that, Joel. It's cool stuff really does come to good people in this field, I think. Oh, absolutely. If you're a good person, you will have amazing adventures that you will look back on fondly. Joel, I want to make sure, of course, you've mentioned, and we talked about it a few times, that you're an author. You have a very interesting book that is going to be available soon, correct? Yeah. Do you mind talking about that for a bit? I don't mind a bit. I really enjoyed writing the American Cryptid Hunter's Field Guide. I mean, I've written more, obviously, too, but The reason why I wrote it is because when I first started, I had no one to turn to. Like, there wasn't like, how do I begin, right? And it was during COVID. And everyone had all this downtime. And I'm like, well, you know, what do I do? Because I actually also own, in my real life, aside from radio, I own a power sports company. And my company was down because we couldn't sell four wheelers and stuff to anyone.

1:16:12 No one could come in. And so I had all this time on my hands. And so I just kind of had this idea of, boy, I remember those early days of trying to figure my way through this. And wouldn't it be cool if there was like, I don't want to say, because I'm in no way an investigative God. I'm no expert either. I'm just a guy that kind of started and had a little bit of a background in radio and kind of knew some of the questions to ask. So it wouldn't be cool if there was a book that maybe would take someone like me and say, hey, if you want to get out in the field, these are the things you're going to need to know even before you hit the field. Or where to point your camera.

1:16:54 Don't point it to the west or the east because there you get glint from the sun. You know, nobody tells you those little tidbits. And so I kind of threw everything I learned into this book. just everything, you know, every cryptid, like when I went and looked for the Mothman, what that was like, you know, you know, what, what worked for that and what didn't work for that. Or if I went, you know, cause I kind of started looking for every, everything I could. And even Dogman went to, I went to Elkhorn, Wisconsin with Linda Godfrey at the time, rest her soul. We went up and down that highway together looking when, when the story first broke, We, we, we went out, her and I were still fresh. Oh, wow.

1:17:38 You were involved with that. I was because we were friends. Linda was actually a journalist before. Yeah. Yeah. And she worked at a station called JJ. Oh, I do believe at the time. And, and we got to know each other through radio circles. And I was running the Dallas show at the time. And she called me up. She goes, Hey, you got that paranormal showdowns down there in Dallas, right? And I said, yeah, yeah, I'm still doing it. And so she said, hey, want to come up to Wisconsin and help me look for this dog man? Or, you know, she didn't call it a dog at the time. She said, this wolf creature? Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, let's go looking. And so, yeah, Linda was such an endearing, wonderful lady. I mean, just what a wonderful person. We lost a lot when we lost her. She was, she was, but she was, she knew how to interview. I wish I could interview people the way she did. She was just so good with people and people. And when I went there and I was, and I was, you know, and she'd been working on the case for But when I got involved about a year and I only came to basically just kind of see what was up, what was going on. But these people. You couldn't talk them off the ledge. They know what they saw. They saw a dogman. There was no way you were talking them

1:19:08 off that ledge. That was what they saw, full stop, no matter what you told them, didn't matter because they know what they saw. And they stuck to their guns like no one I've ever seen before or since, really. They were absolutely pounding on the table. That's what I saw. And I believe them, 100%. 100% believe them. Joel, I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible. You are literally the Forrest Gump of paranormal history. Do you know what I'm trying to say, though? I do. Right place, right time. It's incredible, dude. I know we've talked about Bigfoot.

1:19:50 A little bit, but were there any things that you were involved with? to do with Bigfoot that looking back on it now, you're like, oh, that was actually a much bigger deal than I realized at the time. The Lauren Coleman thing was bigger. Okay, cool. That was much bigger when I was in Falk, Arkansas before it blew up to be the story it is today. No way. It was funny because I ended up at Falk, Arkansas. I was in Atlas, Oklahoma at the time working at a radio station, which is just south, basically below Arkansas. Uh-huh. And I was driving through Arkansas and I think, where was I going? And I know it was a Springfield, Missouri. I might've been driving to, I can't remember. And a buddy of mine said, there's some weird things going on in the fall. So you should stop there. Just talk to a couple of people. And this is long before, you know, while Blackburn or anyone.

1:20:44 Else was doing anything with it. Totally. And so this is circa 1995. And I went up there, and I'm like, hey. And there was a gas station. I said, hey, what's this I hear where you guys got this Bigfoot running around? And it was a cafe gas station. I'm telling you, Jeremiah, these people were eating and drinking. But as soon as I said that, everything stopped. They're just like, er. But, yep, they all turned and looked at me. And, of course, growing up in Minnesota, I didn't have a Texas drawl. I mean, I was definitely a Yankee. And this old guy comes up to me and goes, what the hell Yankee like you looking for a beast? And I'm like, I only heard that there is something going on here, sir. I, I, Oh boy. Howdy. He says, there's a lot more than a little going on here.

1:21:35 And he starts telling me the story. He owned a ranch or, you know, a farm out there. And he was talking about shooting at this three toed Bigfoot. He says, that song gun, it has three toes. And I saw it looking at me and I shot at it and want to kill my chickens. And he's telling me all about shooting at this big foot. And I said, well, what happened? He says, I hit that thing with a 30, 30 and it didn't budge. All it did was wince a little and it ran. Yeah. And, and I said, well, what did you do? He says, I got a bigger gun. Wow. Okay. Well, yeah, I suppose that's the, The thing I guess I would have done too.

1:22:18 Right. You know? And so, and then people, you know, I started hanging around there a little bit and I'm like, well, and then the other lady says, yeah, I had one reach right through my window and try to grab me a big paw. She said a big, big, great, big bear paw almost got me. And I'm like, really? And she says, yeah, I was laying there in bed. Next thing you know, I see this arm coming through my window. Wow. Oh man, this is nuts. And I'm like, no way. She's like, yeah, it really happened. If you go down, down about a mile down, Joe Dean down there, she'll tell you all about when she saw the youngins. And so there's baby Bigfoot. And she's telling me about seeing a part of family of Bigfoot. And yeah, one thing led to another and, and, uh, you know, and the movie had already been made, but they didn't want anything really to do with the movie. They're like, well, that movie, you know, was so long ago. And, But they were telling me it was 10 times worse than what the movie even portrayed, how they're being, you know, how this thing was running around. And, you know, and the police, you know, they even had, you know, they were even talking about it. One of the cops saw one of the Bigfoot looking through a trailer house window. And he happened to be driving down the road and he saw it looking through this lady's window. So he stopped and hit the siren and it took off running.

1:23:48 Man, this is incredible. It's absolutely incredible, the stuff you were able to be involved with. That's so cool, Joel. Wow. I'm blown away. I am absolutely blown away by the journeys that you've had. Very, very cool. Where can my listeners check out your book that we were just talking about? Yeah. You know, a company called Foundations Publishing is going to be releasing it next month. So if you want the book, I have an email set up called joelsturgisbooks at gmail.com. And anyone that pre-orders one, I will sign it. You know, when you want to buy it, I'll let you know when it's up for sale and make sure you get one, but I'll also sign the thing for you.

1:24:32 And that way you get it. And Jeremiah, just as a token of your gratitude, I'll be shipping you one for free when it does come out. I just want to thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate that. But anybody that wants a copy of any of my books, just let me know. Foundations is doing it. And I have it all set up for pre-orders. And I love it. You know, if it helps even one guy or girl or someone interested in going out there and enjoying themselves, I've done my job. You know, because I remember... starting out and not knowing what to do. Okay. Now I have this interest. What do I do now? How do I actually start investigating? It's one thing to collect stories, but it's a whole nother thing to start investigating, you.

1:25:16 Know, totally different worlds. I've found that out the last few years. It's a total different world. Yep. You're right, man. You know? And so, yeah. And it can be daunting, especially when you're first starting out, you try and get your, figure out the right and wrong way to do it. And it, you know, there's really no hard and fast right or wrong way, but there are definitely ways to be taken more seriously than others. You know, like your evidence collection is so important. You know, if you come across evidence, you know, the chain of evidence, how important that is to show that chain of evidence and just things like that, that a lot of people wouldn't think of that are so very important. Wow.

1:26:00 You're absolutely right. Such a fascinating conversation. Joel, thank you so much for coming on the show and for just sharing a lifetime of really, really cool stuff. Bigfoot and all other sorts of stuff too. It's been a wild ride. We'll have to keep in touch. Yes, absolutely. I'd love that. If you ever need me to come back on the show, I'd love to. Definitely. I have so many more tales of things I've run into and I've done. You know, like running the Chupacabra or doing this or doing that. I mean, you know, I've had this opportunity. It's been, I've been really blessed. I mean, oddly enough, it's almost like I've fallen into all these situations where I'm trying.

1:26:43 Incredible. You know, where I knew a guy that knew a guy or, you know, I heard a rumor and I picked up the phone or, you know, and like I said, I'm far more blessed than I have a right to be. A hundred percent. I totally get that. Well, we will definitely keep in touch, Joel. And thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you, Jeremiah. It's been a real honor. A special thanks to Joel Sturgis for coming on the show today. And if you've had a Bigfoot encounter of your own, I would love to hear from you. You can send me an email with your encounter. at bigfootsociety at gmail.com. I've come out with a free report about the top 10 Bigfoot hotspots. You can go over to bit.ly forward slash BFS report. I'm Jeremiah Byron. Thanks for listening to Bigfoot Society, and I'll see you in the woods.