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Sept. 24, 2026

Hunter Looked Up—and a Blond Bigfoot Was 20 Feet Away

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Season 1

Joel Sturgis was alone at Whiteface Reservoir in northern Minnesota when a powerful odor began moving around his campsite. Then he noticed red eyes beyond the firelight. When he looked again, a massive blond Bigfoot was standing approximately 20 feet away, silently watching him.

Joel shares the close-range encounter that kept him out of the woods for three years, the reports he later collected from people living near the reservoir, and his 1994 investigation with Loren Coleman in East Texas. He also takes us inside his years as a Coast to Coast AM board operator, his friendship with Art Bell, and his visit to the Sherman Ranch before it became widely known as Skinwalker Ranch.

The journey continues into Fouke, Arkansas, where a question about Bigfoot caused an entire cafe to fall silent—and local residents began sharing stories involving a three-toed creature, an arm reaching through a bedroom window, and a police officer confronting something outside a trailer.

Listen to Joel Sturgis’s remarkable journey through three decades of Bigfoot, paranormal radio, and unexplained encounters.

Resources:

After Hours AM:
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/53-after-hours-am-80599842/about

Barb Shupe Cloaked Video:
https://youtu.be/vBfMoFY_IlM?si=TofDcdLn6iJL6SGF

https://www.joelsturgisbooks.com

Get the free Bigfoot hotspots report: https://bit.ly/bfsreport

📖 Follow Jeremiah's cancer health updates here:
https://www.caringbridge.org/site/569ef3d3-68be-11f1-8790-97fdfd2bbc64


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WEBVTT

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But it was only about 20 feet away. It was

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so big, if it wanted to get me, it would

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have had me once dried.

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In late fall 2005, radio host Jill Sturgis was camping

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alone at Whiteface Reservoir in northern Minnesota when a powerful

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odor began moving around his campsite. Then he noticed red

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eyes beyond the firelight. How did something that large get

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within 20 feet without making a sound? I'm Jeremiah Byron,

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and this is Bigfoot Society. All right, Bigfoot Society, you've

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got the privilege of talking to author and radio host, Mr.

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Joel Sturgis from up there in the North, North of

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where I am, right? You're up in, uh, is it Minnesota, Joel?

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Yeah. You know what? I'm about an hour North of Duluth, Minnesota,

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not too far from Lake Superior, the big lake.

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Oh my goodness. That's way up there. I love it, man.

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I love it. It's wild.

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Yeah.

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God's country.

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I really do. It's wild.

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Yeah.

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Joel, you got a few things going on.

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I want my listeners to make sure that they're aware of, uh,

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You are an author, paranormal investigator. You've been a radio

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host and producer. You've been in this for 30 years,

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looking into all sorts of stuff. You're the host of

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After Hours AM. You've got multiple books out there. You've

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been on TV. You've been in events, Bigfoot events throughout

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the Midwest. You're doing all sorts of cool stuff. So

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we had you on the show today to kind of

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have a chat with you. You've had some interesting things

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happen up there in, in Minnesota, some interesting, uh, Bigfoot things, but, um,

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it may be just so that, uh, we know what

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was your introduction to the whole, the whole Bigfoot side

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of things before we, or maybe that, that was your introduction.

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I was, okay, we got to go way, way back here.

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I was educated at Brown University for radio. And so

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I have a degree in broadcasting. And my very first

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brush with Bigfoot was I was working at a radio

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station in Texas. And, you know, when you work at

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a radio station and you're kind of the new guy,

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you get sent and all the assignments nobody else wants

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to do. So I ended up going out in the

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woods and it was the coolest experience looking back at it,

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how blessed I was to go. I went out with

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Lauren Coleman way back in 1994. We went, it was

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towards this time of year, September, October, and they wanted

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to get some creepy stuff for the creepy season coming up.

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And there was a report of a Bigfoot sighting, not

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far from where I was in Dallas at the time.

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This would have been about an hour south of us,

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you know, in East Texas. Everyone knows East Texas where

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all the woods are in Texas. West Texas is more

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your desert. So this is East Texas we went. And

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so I ended up going with, at that time, an

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NBC affiliate. And I was working for that radio station,

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which happened to be the sister company of that affiliate.

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So we went with Lauren Coleman into these woods. And,

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you know, and it was really dark and it's fun.

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And he's talking about Bigfoot encrypted and and how that

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all works. And I didn't know anything about Bigfoot at

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the time. You know, everyone's heard of Bigfoot. I mean,

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it wasn't like I was unfamiliar, but it wasn't like

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I was a believer. I'm like, OK, that's cool. You know,

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people saw this big creature running around. Wow, that's something else.

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And he's talking and all of a sudden out of nowhere,

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almost like on cue. We heard the loudest, largest, where

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I actually felt in my chest. And my first thought was,

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this is a put on. I'm like, this has got

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to be a put on for the cameras. It's got

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to be put on from him. And of course, I

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didn't know Lauren at the time. And I've gotten to

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know him over the years. And he's a very stand

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up guy. There's no way in a million years he

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would do something like that. And he starts leaving the woods.

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He starts walking at a brisk pace. I said, Lauren,

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where are you going? He says, I'm going to leave,

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and I kind of suggest you do too. So we're

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walking on these woods, and things are escorting us out

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of the woods. You couldn't see them, but you could

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hear them. It was like they're paralleling us out of

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the woods. And we had a camera guy that's going,

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I don't know what's in those woods. I'm trying to

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focus on it. He's freaking out. I'm freaking out a

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little bit. I'm thinking, dude, this is nuts. So we

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get out of the woods. And I say, hey, Lauren,

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what was that? He says, well, they said they have

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an aggressive Bigfoot here. I guess they weren't kidding. And, oh,

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my gosh, that was my introduction to the world of Bigfoot, right?

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And I'm like, wow, that was something. And I kind

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of filed it in the back of my head, got

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back to the station, going, hey, you will never guess

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what happened here. And of course, you know, they had

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an audio. They were able to catch the scream and

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were listening to it. I'm like, yeah, listen to this stuff, guys.

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And so I kind of followed it in the back

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of my head for a few years. You know, really didn't,

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I mean, that was a cool experience. It made me think, well,

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maybe there is something out there, but it wasn't like

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100% sold. Because I kept saying to myself, you know what?

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There's people everywhere. If there was a creature that size,

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somebody would have seen it by now. Or there would

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have been one hit by a car. Come on, there

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has to be a special needs Bigfoot out there somewhere, right? where,

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you know, it ends up getting hit by a car.

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So fast forward, this is about 15, this is 2005.

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So we're going from 1994 to 2005. Okay. So now

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this is 11 years later and I am hunting. Yeah. Okay.

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Are you familiar Jeremiah with the Minnesota Iceman?

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So it comes up, it comes up on the show

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about once a quarter from someone's like, I saw it

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when I was a kid. And it's like, every once

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in a while it'll come up yeah.

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So i am actually camping at the white fist reservoir

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where hansen allegedly shot the minnesota ice man oh wow

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the ice man and which is from where i'm sitting

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now is only about 20 minutes away yeah and so

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i i used to be an avid grouse hunter and

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i still am You know, I still do like to

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get out in the woods once in a while. Mainly,

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I enjoy the time out in the woods, being able

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to walk and ground myself. And if I get something,

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that's great. But really what it is, is getting out,

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getting away from people, enjoying myself. And so it's late fall.

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I'm camping at the Whiteface Reservoir Campground. It's a federal campground.

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I'm about the only one in this campground. And I

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loved it. I'm loving it because, you know, all the

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tourists are gone for the year and I'm by myself.

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All the leaves are down and, you know, it's kind

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of cold. It's like, you know, during the day, it's

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like a high of 55, 45, 55 somewhere. It's nice

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and crisp. And I am sitting in my campsite minding

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my own business. I'm cleaning my shotgun from hunting that day.

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And I have a nice big fire going and I'm really,

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I'm really enjoying this. This is just perfect weather for camping.

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And I, and I kept on smelling this terrible smell

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and I'm like, gosh, what is that smell? You know,

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it come and go. And I'm like, what is that? Almost,

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I would say it smelled like rotten fish, but it

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made rotten fish smell like roses. You know what I mean?

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That's how bad the smell was, but it was moving.

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The smell was, and I attribute it to wind. You know,

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I thought maybe the breeze was carried from different directions.

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I really didn't pay it 100% in mind because I

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was sure that maybe there's garbage, there's something that was left.

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And I'm cleaning my gun and I'm minding my own

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business on the big campfire. I'm nice and warm. And

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I remember in the woods, I saw, you ever see

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those pictures where people take a picture of somebody and

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they get red eye in the picture? You know what

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I mean? So I'm looking, I'm seeing things. what looks

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like red eye. I'm like, what is that? You know,

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just off the campground, just off my campsite. And I'm

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looking and, and, and I smell that smell again. And I,

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and I look down and then I look up again

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and Jeremiah, there's a Bigfoot in front of me. I mean,

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it's there, it's there. I mean, I'm looking at it

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and he's looking at me, but it wasn't like, I'm

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here to scare you. It was more like, I'm here

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because I'm interested in you. Because nobody's supposed to be

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here this time of year. Nobody's out here this time

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of year. And it wasn't... For me, I was scared.

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I mean, I'm calm now, telling the tale, but dude,

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I'm pretty sure I peed a little. I mean, just

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to be completely honest. I was frightened.

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It was.

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massive creature. Mine was not like the black, brown one

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you hear. Mine was more of a blonde color. Very

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matted hair, large. There was a birch tree he was

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standing next to. And I remember, look at that birch tree.

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It's emblazoned in my mind how tall he was versus

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the tree. And years later, I went back because that

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tree obviously is still there. And I measured it once

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I got the gumption to go back. But I remember

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also more than anything else, two things that sticks out

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in my mind. Number one, its eyes are very human-like.

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It wasn't like it was an animal that's run on instinct.

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This thing was processing. I mean, he was, I say

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it was a he because that's the vibe I got

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as a male. Absolutely processing me. There was a lot

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of thought behind those eyes. It wasn't like you know,

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an animal where you see it and it just has those,

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you know, you know, I'm talking about words. It doesn't

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like a lot, not going on. Absolutely smart. And it,

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and I also remember its face. I remember when I

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was a kid, we used to flip through those books,

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you know, in science class, he used to show the

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Neanderthal with, you know, the face and he had a

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big protruding brow Ridge. He had large features. he was

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more human looking in a lot of ways than, you know,

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ape looking. And it looked at me for about 20 seconds,

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the longest 20 seconds of my life. I was stunned,

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frozen in fear. I didn't, I figured at this point,

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the only thing I had with me was a shotgun,

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a birdshot. And that would not have, that would have

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made it angry if anything, but It was only about

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20 feet away. It was so big. If it wanted

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to get me, it would have had me in one stride.

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I mean, there was nothing. There was nothing I could

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have done to defend myself at all. So it looked

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at me. I looked at it and it turned around

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and it left. But what it left is sound like

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a truck going through the woods. I mean, loud, like loud,

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crashing loud. One thing I've processed over the years is

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how did it sneak up on me being the fall

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of the year with all the leaves down how stealthy

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is that, you know, to come right up on you,

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not even a twig snapped. And there it was. But

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when it left, it was like, it was telling you,

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it was like someone's driving a truck through the woods.

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I mean, it was hitting everything. And I kind of

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thought to myself later on in life, I'm like, that

212
00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:39.779
was definitely like a show of force when it left.

213
00:11:40.500 --> 00:11:45.019
Like I'm here, I'm in charge. And that's really what

214
00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:48.179
I think was going on. But I just remember how

215
00:11:48.330 --> 00:11:53.169
massive and how intelligent the look it was giving me.

216
00:11:53.970 --> 00:11:59.269
Just the nonverbal communication spoke to a higher intelligence than

217
00:11:59.389 --> 00:12:00.090
just an animal.

218
00:12:02.850 --> 00:12:05.350
That is wild.

219
00:12:06.029 --> 00:12:08.389
And that's also, it looks like, I'm looking on a map,

220
00:12:08.529 --> 00:12:11.509
it's about an hour north of Duluth.

221
00:12:11.629 --> 00:12:12.629
Would you say that's about right?

222
00:12:13.110 --> 00:12:13.269
Yep.

223
00:12:14.740 --> 00:12:15.139
Gotcha.

224
00:12:15.179 --> 00:12:17.259
How did that affect you after that happened? Was it

225
00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:19.179
a thing where you just kind of clammed up about

226
00:12:19.299 --> 00:12:19.940
it or were.

227
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:23.629
You sharing it with people? Yeah. Yeah. Cause after it happened,

228
00:12:24.590 --> 00:12:26.549
it took me, well, first it took me about three

229
00:12:26.570 --> 00:12:30.669
years before it even entered the woods again. I knew, no,

230
00:12:30.750 --> 00:12:33.970
I want nothing to do with the woods, but also

231
00:12:34.029 --> 00:12:35.830
I try to tell, you know, talk to a couple

232
00:12:35.850 --> 00:12:38.779
of buddies of mine, maybe bring it up a casual conversation.

233
00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:42.159
And of course I always got the, you know, you, Whatever,

234
00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:45.320
you know, the joking looks, you know, and or I'd

235
00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:47.679
become the butt of jokes, you know, like, oh, yeah,

236
00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:49.610
there's a big hairy man out there. Don't you don't

237
00:12:49.620 --> 00:12:51.710
go talk to him. So I kind of clammed up

238
00:12:51.779 --> 00:12:56.870
about it. And I was lucky enough to work in radio.

239
00:12:58.149 --> 00:13:05.230
And so I used my radio show mainly also a

240
00:13:05.250 --> 00:13:07.309
lot of ways to get answers for myself. So I

241
00:13:07.350 --> 00:13:12.120
start booking guests purposely dealing with the subject matter. After

242
00:13:12.139 --> 00:13:16.159
I collected myself, processed it, I started getting curious what

243
00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:19.950
these things are. I went from being afraid to now

244
00:13:20.070 --> 00:13:23.429
wondering what they are. And so I'd get people like

245
00:13:23.490 --> 00:13:26.590
Lauren Coleman on the show. I'd get Cliff for fighting Bigfoot.

246
00:13:26.669 --> 00:13:30.909
I'd get everybody I could get. And one nice thing

247
00:13:30.970 --> 00:13:33.690
is I'd tell them my story, but they didn't ridicule

248
00:13:33.710 --> 00:13:37.149
me or laugh at me. They understood. And that was

249
00:13:37.409 --> 00:13:43.549
important to me because it's really– You feel so lonely

250
00:13:44.250 --> 00:13:47.929
when you've had a sighting and nobody believes you. But

251
00:13:48.049 --> 00:13:51.740
yet you had to live through this moment of terror. Because,

252
00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:55.919
you know, I also thought, oddly enough, when I was

253
00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:59.179
dealing with that Bigfoot at the time, I thought, well,

254
00:13:59.259 --> 00:14:02.340
my obituary is really going to read weird if it

255
00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:05.980
decides to kill me. You know, the funny things, you know,

256
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.110
that kind of go through your head, right? And so

257
00:14:09.210 --> 00:14:14.590
I started using the MyMedia app. you know, outreach, you know, resources.

258
00:14:15.269 --> 00:14:17.889
And I learned a ton. You know, I learned a lot.

259
00:14:17.950 --> 00:14:21.029
And then I ran into like-minded people that, you know,

260
00:14:21.049 --> 00:14:23.730
and they took me out, kind of showed me the ropes. And,

261
00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:29.000
you know, throughout the years, I bought them over 10

262
00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:35.299
years now, I learned a lot about Bigfoot and other cryptids.

263
00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:37.340
I mean, it lit the fire on me. I started

264
00:14:37.379 --> 00:14:40.419
looking into every cryptid. I had the moth man, everything.

265
00:14:40.460 --> 00:14:43.080
It was like the door was fully open and I

266
00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:44.950
wanted to find out as much as I could.

267
00:14:44.970 --> 00:14:46.110
Oh, wow.

268
00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:46.539
Okay.

269
00:14:46.570 --> 00:14:48.419
So you, so you really, really went into it.

270
00:14:49.769 --> 00:14:53.990
Did you do any research about to see if other

271
00:14:54.029 --> 00:14:56.929
people had had similar experiences in that same?

272
00:14:57.610 --> 00:15:02.490
Yeah. Yes, I did. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, after that happened,

273
00:15:03.049 --> 00:15:07.090
I started taking that Minnesota Iceman case, the Hanson case, seriously.

274
00:15:08.009 --> 00:15:13.230
You know, like, wow, obviously they're there and there's a

275
00:15:13.250 --> 00:15:16.740
real chance that he did shoot one. So I actually

276
00:15:16.750 --> 00:15:21.620
ended up finding witnesses that knew Hanson and were able

277
00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:24.419
to speak to what was going on at that time.

278
00:15:24.460 --> 00:15:30.379
Because that was 1960 that he harvested that Bigfoot. And, uh, I,

279
00:15:30.529 --> 00:15:32.980
I ran into, you know, I started talking, I started

280
00:15:33.059 --> 00:15:36.500
asking people, you know, Hey, what, what, what was your

281
00:15:36.539 --> 00:15:39.500
encounter like in that area? You know, when you had one, well,

282
00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:41.419
you know, I, I saw it from a distance and,

283
00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:44.299
and it looked like this and, and, and, you know,

284
00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:46.779
it moved like that. And, and I was the only

285
00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:49.320
one that had such a close encounter, you know, only

286
00:15:49.340 --> 00:15:51.179
a few feet away, everybody else, you know, from a

287
00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:54.259
distance I saw through the rifle scope or I saw

288
00:15:54.299 --> 00:15:57.320
it on the power line, you know, nothing that close.

289
00:15:58.029 --> 00:16:04.330
But they all mentioned that level, even though it was

290
00:16:04.389 --> 00:16:07.490
many yards away, like 300, 400 yards away sometimes, they

291
00:16:07.509 --> 00:16:11.870
all had that same fear when they saw it. They

292
00:16:11.929 --> 00:16:15.929
all shared that same trait, that there was a certain

293
00:16:15.950 --> 00:16:16.730
amount of fear with it.

294
00:16:19.350 --> 00:16:20.549
That's really interesting.

295
00:16:22.009 --> 00:16:28.279
Did you feel like, well, I'm curious myself, I'm always

296
00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:31.240
curious about, you know, because I do a lot of

297
00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:33.679
reaching out to potential witnesses.

298
00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:35.159
And did you.

299
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:39.700
Find that there was a specific way to try to

300
00:16:39.860 --> 00:16:43.190
track down or get in touch with these people that

301
00:16:43.250 --> 00:16:47.210
had the info about this area? Or was it just

302
00:16:47.250 --> 00:16:48.750
you kind of just fell into it?

303
00:16:49.409 --> 00:16:51.850
Well, I grew up out in that area. So I

304
00:16:51.909 --> 00:16:54.250
knew a lot of folks. And so I started with

305
00:16:54.429 --> 00:16:56.000
one and they say, well, you know, I didn't see it,

306
00:16:56.029 --> 00:16:58.639
but so-and-so saw it. And so, and I happened to

307
00:16:58.659 --> 00:17:00.960
already know them. Hey, did you really see that out there?

308
00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:04.259
And then that's, you know, me being from there gave

309
00:17:04.299 --> 00:17:06.240
me a, gave them a certain amount of comfort level,

310
00:17:06.460 --> 00:17:08.240
you know, cause they're talking to a local. It wasn't,

311
00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.200
you know, somebody, you know, from outside coming in. I'm there,

312
00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:13.000
you know, I grew up there, so they already knew me.

313
00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:16.349
So they were really able to open up and tell

314
00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:18.390
me their story. And I'd say, Hey, you know what?

315
00:17:18.849 --> 00:17:21.230
I'd tell them mine. I would say, this is what

316
00:17:21.289 --> 00:17:23.869
happened to me. you know, I'd lead with that. I'd say,

317
00:17:23.910 --> 00:17:25.849
you know, you know, and then that, of course, that

318
00:17:25.869 --> 00:17:28.730
made them more comfortable to tell me theirs. And I

319
00:17:28.769 --> 00:17:31.950
was able to compare notes, you know, where did you

320
00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:34.859
see it? And what were the circumstances? What did you

321
00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:38.920
smell beforehand? A lot of them, you know, they talk

322
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:43.369
about that same rancid, like wet dog smell, just, just,

323
00:17:43.420 --> 00:17:47.650
you know, I mean, just very pungent smell. And so luckily,

324
00:17:47.769 --> 00:17:50.680
like I said, luckily enough, I was able to kind

325
00:17:50.740 --> 00:17:52.619
of have that in from being a local.

326
00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:59.680
Yeah, that's really smart. Mentioned that after this, you were

327
00:18:00.509 --> 00:18:04.130
able to get linked up with certain people and start

328
00:18:04.150 --> 00:18:06.789
to go out and learn the ropes and things like that.

329
00:18:07.589 --> 00:18:13.059
Did you have any interesting outings that happened when you

330
00:18:13.099 --> 00:18:16.460
started to go down the road of, I mean, you're

331
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:19.859
really having these like small expeditions, it kind of sounds like.

332
00:18:20.609 --> 00:18:23.230
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I started small.

333
00:18:23.769 --> 00:18:23.890
Yeah.

334
00:18:23.910 --> 00:18:28.569
I mean, you know, investigation light, you know, until I

335
00:18:28.750 --> 00:18:32.779
really started getting deeper. Uh, yeah. Yeah. You know, I

336
00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:36.400
learned like TP structures, what they can mean. I, I learned,

337
00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:40.819
you know, um, you know, about different habitat that they,

338
00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:43.900
that they like, you know, I also realized, you know,

339
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.240
that anywhere a black bear can be a Bigfoot can

340
00:18:46.289 --> 00:18:50.180
be right. Cause very similar food sources, uh, you know,

341
00:18:50.259 --> 00:18:53.079
I learned a ton from different people. And also I

342
00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:56.039
learned a lot about tracking skills, you know, how to

343
00:18:56.099 --> 00:19:00.240
track things through the woods, you know, what to look for,

344
00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.359
you know, like the branches that are broke eight, nine

345
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:05.440
feet tall, if they're broken a certain way and it's

346
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.960
a fresh break, that could be, you know, all sorts

347
00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:10.140
of different signs to look for when you're in the woods,

348
00:19:10.220 --> 00:19:13.500
you know, because it's all there. It's just that usually

349
00:19:13.539 --> 00:19:16.779
we're not looking for that, you know, so, you know,

350
00:19:17.140 --> 00:19:19.470
you almost got to start You have to learn. You

351
00:19:19.509 --> 00:19:21.430
got to learn how to have that skilled eye.

352
00:19:22.769 --> 00:19:23.410
Absolutely.

353
00:19:25.269 --> 00:19:29.609
Very, very similar journey to mine, actually, when I think

354
00:19:29.670 --> 00:19:37.319
about it. When you're out there on these investigation-like adventures,

355
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:41.319
did you have any close calls or anything happen that

356
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:42.839
you think might be related to it?

357
00:19:43.670 --> 00:19:47.319
Nothing ever that close, obviously, but I've had the wood knocks.

358
00:19:47.990 --> 00:19:51.099
I've had the vocalizations. I've had all. the you know

359
00:19:51.140 --> 00:19:54.859
things happen uh never have i had it that close

360
00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:57.079
ever again i haven't had a chance to see another

361
00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:00.240
one like dead on like there it is you know

362
00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:03.799
you know um i have had some very interesting times

363
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.250
like you know smelling that smell good oh there's there's

364
00:20:07.289 --> 00:20:10.559
a there's a smell that there's that pungent smell but

365
00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:15.220
I've never had the, I guess, pleasure or opportunity to

366
00:20:15.339 --> 00:20:21.079
see one again that closely, you know, and I, looking

367
00:20:21.140 --> 00:20:23.900
back on it, I almost feel like it was a privilege.

368
00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:27.759
I mean, how many people get to see these that

369
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:28.740
close really?

370
00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:32.740
I don't think it's a lot, to be honest. I

371
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:33.279
really don't.

372
00:20:35.140 --> 00:20:37.769
I've talked to a lot of people, but Uh, it

373
00:20:37.829 --> 00:20:40.710
is a very, very, I think it's a very special thing. Um,

374
00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:45.609
or it's very unique to have an experience. Um, was

375
00:20:45.650 --> 00:20:50.099
there a time when you're out in the woods and

376
00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:56.039
something happened that was very hard to explain, uh, and

377
00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:58.559
really threw you for a loop and this can not,

378
00:20:58.859 --> 00:21:00.789
it doesn't have to be Bigfoot related either.

379
00:21:00.809 --> 00:21:02.410
Yeah.

380
00:21:02.589 --> 00:21:05.039
Yeah. Um, a few times I've been out in the

381
00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:07.500
woods and I can't explain a few things, you know,

382
00:21:07.539 --> 00:21:10.329
you know, and, and, uh, one of the, one of the,

383
00:21:11.230 --> 00:21:13.609
one of the ones that I cannot explain to this

384
00:21:13.650 --> 00:21:17.410
day is I actually went looking for the Wendigo of

385
00:21:17.990 --> 00:21:19.990
all things. Yeah.

386
00:21:20.049 --> 00:21:20.309
Right.

387
00:21:20.390 --> 00:21:23.119
I mean, you know, who, who says let's go hunt

388
00:21:23.140 --> 00:21:27.210
for a Wendigo and, and, and, I went to Thief

389
00:21:27.250 --> 00:21:30.309
River Falls, Minnesota, where they're very prevalent on that area.

390
00:21:30.329 --> 00:21:32.569
And that is in our, it would be in our

391
00:21:32.650 --> 00:21:37.089
Northwestern part of our state. And it's, it's very Wendigo

392
00:21:37.930 --> 00:21:41.329
heavy believers, all the other, the native American tribes out there.

393
00:21:42.509 --> 00:21:47.099
And I did, I ended up going with a native

394
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:50.980
American guy graciously took me out because I mean, my gosh,

395
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:53.779
they don't even want to talk about the Wendigo. I mean,

396
00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:55.650
that is, And we're going to get to that in

397
00:21:55.690 --> 00:22:00.240
a minute. That's a very taboo subject matter in their culture.

398
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.079
It's like talking to Navajo about skinwalkers. You just don't

399
00:22:04.099 --> 00:22:06.460
go up there and say, hey, what about them skinwalkers?

400
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:09.640
It's very, very sacred in a lot of ways. You

401
00:22:09.740 --> 00:22:13.470
just don't do it. And so I happened to befriend

402
00:22:13.509 --> 00:22:17.190
a Native American gentleman. He was a tracker and he

403
00:22:17.210 --> 00:22:19.769
was a guide. And we went out to the woods

404
00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:23.190
and he says, you want to go out and look

405
00:22:23.230 --> 00:22:27.880
for a windigo? I'll Take you out. But remember, it's

406
00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:31.519
at your own risk. This is nothing to be trifled with.

407
00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:36.339
This is real, just so you understand that. I said,

408
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.509
I absolutely understand the risk. I absolutely am willing to.

409
00:22:40.529 --> 00:22:43.490
I don't know if that's naive of me. I think

410
00:22:43.549 --> 00:22:46.049
it was a little bit too, you know, to say, oh,

411
00:22:46.109 --> 00:22:48.289
I get those risks. Yeah, let's get out there. Let's

412
00:22:48.309 --> 00:22:51.190
go look for basically a woods demon. What could possibly

413
00:22:51.250 --> 00:22:54.819
go wrong? So, and of course they looked at me

414
00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:58.279
like crazy, you know, you don't look like, you know,

415
00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:01.849
I'd look at myself today going crazy. So we were,

416
00:23:01.869 --> 00:23:04.380
we were out in the woods and I'll never forget.

417
00:23:05.089 --> 00:23:07.930
I'm sitting there and I'm watching this glimmer that looks

418
00:23:07.950 --> 00:23:10.809
like saran wrap in the woods. That's the only way

419
00:23:10.890 --> 00:23:13.950
I can, that I can even tell you what it

420
00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:16.069
looks like. It looked like a piece of saran wrap

421
00:23:16.670 --> 00:23:20.650
moving from tree to tree to tree, jumping from tree

422
00:23:20.950 --> 00:23:25.059
to tree to tree. And I'm watching the saran wrap.

423
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:27.960
Like I said, it's the only thing I can compare

424
00:23:27.980 --> 00:23:30.700
it to because it's completely transparent. But you can see

425
00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:35.500
its outline. And it's shimmering. This is during the day.

426
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:39.779
It's almost shimmering in the sun. And the tracker goes,

427
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:42.329
we are leaving now.

428
00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:43.440
We're out of here.

429
00:23:44.029 --> 00:23:47.170
And I'm like, well, wait a minute. This is so cool.

430
00:23:47.250 --> 00:23:51.230
What is it? We are leaving now. I mean, absolutely no...

431
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.990
full stop, we are leaving. And I'm trying to take pictures.

432
00:23:57.150 --> 00:23:59.690
I'm trying to, you know, see what this is. And

433
00:23:59.730 --> 00:24:03.890
he says, listen here, we are leaving. We are leaving now,

434
00:24:03.950 --> 00:24:06.529
with or without you. And so, of course, I'm like,

435
00:24:06.569 --> 00:24:09.130
all right, all right, all right, let's go. So we

436
00:24:09.170 --> 00:24:13.160
get back to town, back to the reservation. And he says,

437
00:24:13.220 --> 00:24:14.700
you need to go see our medicine man.

438
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:16.960
Why?

439
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:22.019
He says, you saw a Wendigo and you cannot You

440
00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:27.380
are marked. You are a hundred percent marked. You need

441
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:30.359
to go get cleansed now. You need to get this

442
00:24:30.500 --> 00:24:34.160
off of you, which I'm at the time. I'm like,

443
00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:36.900
come on guys. You know what I mean? In my mind,

444
00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:39.700
I'm going, that was the coolest few minutes of my life.

445
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:42.859
What are you talking about? They're terrified. And then I

446
00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:44.920
found out why I went and spoke with them. And

447
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:48.930
they said, when you see a Wendigo, you, they remember

448
00:24:48.970 --> 00:24:53.980
you as much as you remember them. Hmm. And they

449
00:24:54.339 --> 00:24:58.480
will track you. They will stalk you. That is, in essence,

450
00:24:58.700 --> 00:24:59.589
a forest demon.

451
00:25:00.769 --> 00:25:09.009
Man, there's some really big similarities to stuff I've heard

452
00:25:09.049 --> 00:25:12.349
in the Bigfoot field with this. I mean, have you

453
00:25:12.410 --> 00:25:16.890
ever seen the Barb Shoup video where it's a video

454
00:25:16.930 --> 00:25:20.730
she took where you can see something and it looks...

455
00:25:21.619 --> 00:25:24.440
the way you described it, it's, it's pretty much, you know,

456
00:25:24.660 --> 00:25:27.440
like a cloaked figure. I haven't heard about her.

457
00:25:27.460 --> 00:25:32.680
Look into that. How, how, how tall was, could you

458
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.960
tell how tall it was or?

459
00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:34.299
Yeah.

460
00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:38.059
You know, I guess if I had to measure it,

461
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:39.940
it would have been about six to seven feet tall.

462
00:25:40.619 --> 00:25:40.859
Okay.

463
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:43.509
You know, it was large, but it was in the trees.

464
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.849
It was actually, but it put no weight on the trees. That,

465
00:25:48.970 --> 00:25:51.890
that was the weirdest part about it. was it was

466
00:25:51.950 --> 00:25:58.309
like it was weightless. And like I said, it was transparent.

467
00:25:58.329 --> 00:26:02.130
It almost looked like glimmering. I guess the other way

468
00:26:02.190 --> 00:26:07.220
I could describe it for our listeners is the movie Predator. Right, exactly.

469
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:11.920
Where you kind of see that shimmer go on. And

470
00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:17.200
everybody that was in the know, they knew. And they

471
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:23.859
were absolutely done with that moment. They wanted out. I

472
00:26:23.900 --> 00:26:27.200
would have stayed. I mean, I was thinking, well, man,

473
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:29.779
because I even said at one point, well, I'm just

474
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.000
going to stay. You guys can go. And that was

475
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:38.000
not an option. We were all leaving. There was no

476
00:26:38.140 --> 00:26:43.309
option at all. I was, yeah, they were not messing around.

477
00:26:43.329 --> 00:26:45.549
Yeah, absolutely.

478
00:26:45.730 --> 00:26:49.599
I'm thinking more I'm thinking through all the people I've

479
00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:53.279
talked to real quick. Man, I had this one guy

480
00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:00.779
in Pennsylvania, Westmoreland County, Hunter, and he's up in his

481
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.160
tree stand and he looks down and he sees something

482
00:27:04.809 --> 00:27:09.710
beneath him described the same way you described it, walking

483
00:27:09.890 --> 00:27:13.029
underneath his tree stand. And then you've got David Pilates

484
00:27:13.089 --> 00:27:16.730
in one of his documentaries where there's another witness that

485
00:27:16.809 --> 00:27:20.089
sees something something predator effect cloaking.

486
00:27:20.109 --> 00:27:21.670
And it really.

487
00:27:21.509 --> 00:27:23.970
Makes you wonder once you start to hear all these,

488
00:27:24.849 --> 00:27:29.849
these similar things and what you experienced, like what is

489
00:27:29.930 --> 00:27:31.309
really going on out there?

490
00:27:32.069 --> 00:27:39.019
Right. Right. And, and, and of course I probed them

491
00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:41.460
for answers and they didn't want to give answers. And

492
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:47.200
rightfully so, you know, that was, not something that i

493
00:27:47.259 --> 00:27:50.289
was meant to see that was not something i should

494
00:27:50.329 --> 00:27:53.549
have went out and and of course when we were

495
00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:56.329
done and i spoke with their medicine man and he

496
00:27:56.369 --> 00:27:59.150
was sage and smoke and some salts on me you

497
00:27:59.329 --> 00:28:02.339
know and and they were done taking me out in

498
00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:04.700
the woods they they said hey if you want to

499
00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:06.799
go out on your own that's your risk we're not

500
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:09.279
going back out there oh wow.

501
00:28:11.049 --> 00:28:14.190
They're like, we're not taking this guy. He's a magnet

502
00:28:14.230 --> 00:28:14.849
for something.

503
00:28:15.069 --> 00:28:21.180
Yeah, we are not going out there again. Yeah, yeah.

504
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:24.359
And they advised me as well not to go back

505
00:28:24.460 --> 00:28:27.920
out because if I did, it would be at my

506
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:28.420
own peril.

507
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:29.900
Wow.

508
00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:32.940
So I'm guessing you never went back out to that

509
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:34.539
area is my guess.

510
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:38.049
No, no. I guess a lot of it too is

511
00:28:38.069 --> 00:28:41.190
when you've got 15 people going– You really feel like

512
00:28:41.230 --> 00:28:44.849
dying today? You really feel, I mean, you know, you

513
00:28:44.890 --> 00:28:47.410
kind of start taking them seriously, you know, when they're,

514
00:28:47.769 --> 00:28:51.049
they're absolutely dead pan serious. They're, they're not, they're not

515
00:28:51.089 --> 00:28:53.849
messing around. They're not screwing around at all. They're telling

516
00:28:53.869 --> 00:28:54.609
you the way it is.

517
00:28:56.170 --> 00:28:56.650
Absolutely.

518
00:28:56.670 --> 00:28:59.150
I mean, we already had a, we actually did a,

519
00:29:00.049 --> 00:29:01.849
I did a prayer before.

520
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:03.200
This interview starts.

521
00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:05.420
I was like, I just have a feeling we're going

522
00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:06.539
to get into some territory.

523
00:29:06.579 --> 00:29:08.559
We're just going to do it at the beginning before

524
00:29:08.619 --> 00:29:09.400
we start recording.

525
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:15.069
Well, you know, I'm also a devout Christian. And to

526
00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:21.589
be honest, my faith is really a couple of things.

527
00:29:21.630 --> 00:29:27.880
I was always a Christian. Grew up Lutheran. My faith

528
00:29:27.950 --> 00:29:29.920
became stronger.

529
00:29:30.500 --> 00:29:33.359
Based on what you've experienced over the years, do you

530
00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:38.150
have any thoughts as to what Bigfoot is? How is

531
00:29:38.210 --> 00:29:41.170
it able to be categorized in your mind of what

532
00:29:41.430 --> 00:29:42.369
it is we're dealing with?

533
00:29:42.670 --> 00:29:45.529
Well, I can only go off of what I saw,

534
00:29:45.789 --> 00:29:49.210
my own account. And for me, and I don't begrudge

535
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:52.140
anyone that has any other ideas because it's all open

536
00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:55.940
until we have definitive answers. For me, it's a flesh

537
00:29:55.980 --> 00:30:00.529
and blood creature. It was definitely... there and it was flesh.

538
00:30:00.589 --> 00:30:03.170
It was blood. I mean, there, there's a lot of

539
00:30:03.210 --> 00:30:07.150
great theories out there about maybe being interdimensional or doing

540
00:30:07.190 --> 00:30:09.430
this or doing that. I understand that. Like I said,

541
00:30:09.470 --> 00:30:12.700
I'm begrudging anyone with those views, but in my own

542
00:30:12.779 --> 00:30:16.299
opinion right now, unless I'm proven otherwise, I do believe

543
00:30:16.339 --> 00:30:21.579
it's a flesh and blood creature with some extraordinary stealth skills.

544
00:30:24.140 --> 00:30:28.779
Exactly. Um, but I, I agree. I agree with you

545
00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:29.099
on that.

546
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:36.019
Definitely extraordinary stealth skills. You're probably familiar with the term

547
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:41.930
high strangeness because of having 30 years in the field,

548
00:30:42.509 --> 00:30:47.670
in related fields as well. Have you ever experienced anything

549
00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:54.599
that could be considered high strangeness in correlation with looking

550
00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:55.720
at Bigfoot things?

551
00:30:56.269 --> 00:31:00.150
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have. I was on a Bigfoot investigation,

552
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:05.339
and I happened to be in north by the Canadian border.

553
00:31:06.500 --> 00:31:11.579
And I was with my colleagues, and it was a

554
00:31:11.619 --> 00:31:16.049
nice night, a nice clear night. And we were looking

555
00:31:16.069 --> 00:31:19.750
for Bigfoot, and I just happened to look up, and

556
00:31:19.769 --> 00:31:23.279
I remember seeing this light in the sky. And it

557
00:31:23.299 --> 00:31:27.240
was doing like purple colors and pink colors, just all

558
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:30.759
the colors that are not associated with any kind of

559
00:31:30.940 --> 00:31:35.670
FFA regulation. And it starts to dance around in the

560
00:31:35.730 --> 00:31:39.529
sky doing figure eights, moving back and forth like super fast.

561
00:31:39.630 --> 00:31:42.509
I'm watching this thing. And no one's paying attention to

562
00:31:42.549 --> 00:31:45.349
it yet. I'm the only one watching this. And I'm

563
00:31:45.410 --> 00:31:49.930
watching and I go, hey, guys, what is that? And

564
00:31:49.950 --> 00:31:54.220
we all stop. We look up. And I remember I

565
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:58.109
interviewed Travis Walton, and I guess this should have been

566
00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:03.130
a cautionary tale. I took my flashlight and I did

567
00:32:03.170 --> 00:32:07.730
the whole, you know, let's communicate back and forth. And

568
00:32:07.769 --> 00:32:10.670
this thing starts flashing exactly what I flashed at it,

569
00:32:11.509 --> 00:32:15.430
back at me. And it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

570
00:32:15.529 --> 00:32:17.890
I mean, it started off as look a golf ball

571
00:32:17.910 --> 00:32:19.819
in the air and then became a beach ball. And

572
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:22.500
then it became bigger and bigger and bigger. So it's

573
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:26.339
getting closer to us. And, and, and so, you know,

574
00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:29.059
I'm in awe of what we're looking at. I've forgotten

575
00:32:29.099 --> 00:32:31.119
all about Bigfoot at this point. I could, you know,

576
00:32:31.180 --> 00:32:34.319
I'm like, wow, what is that in the sky? And

577
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:37.690
so I I'm flashing minutes flashing back, but it's getting

578
00:32:37.789 --> 00:32:41.640
closer and I start feeling, you know, the, hair on

579
00:32:41.660 --> 00:32:44.329
my arms start rising up and i'm like what is

580
00:32:44.369 --> 00:32:48.490
going on here and everybody decided all at once it

581
00:32:48.529 --> 00:32:50.630
was almost like a scooby-doo moment hey let's get in

582
00:32:50.650 --> 00:32:53.190
the truck and go somewhere else to go look for

583
00:32:53.210 --> 00:32:55.650
y'all do this so we all pile in the truck

584
00:32:55.670 --> 00:32:57.789
we go about 15 miles down the road you know

585
00:32:57.849 --> 00:32:59.839
get out of that area go to a different site

586
00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:03.799
where they had some bigfoot activity and i get out

587
00:33:03.819 --> 00:33:05.700
of the truck i look up and there's that light

588
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:11.490
it had followed us to the second location And I

589
00:33:11.529 --> 00:33:14.410
was going to do the whole flashlight thing. And I

590
00:33:14.470 --> 00:33:16.490
remember a guy named Mike grabs my hand. He says,

591
00:33:16.569 --> 00:33:21.789
let's not do that. Let's just leave now. Let's just

592
00:33:21.849 --> 00:33:26.170
call it a night. So we did. That was so strange,

593
00:33:26.930 --> 00:33:30.730
you know, having that happen. I guess you can't call

594
00:33:30.750 --> 00:33:34.339
the UFO because I couldn't identify it. And it was

595
00:33:34.859 --> 00:33:37.640
putting out colors out there that you would never associate with,

596
00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:41.240
you know, an airplane. And it was able to do

597
00:33:41.420 --> 00:33:47.980
aerial acrobatics that would destroy any other airplane out there. Okay.

598
00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:49.480
That's wild.

599
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:56.480
So you would consider it more a UFO rather than

600
00:33:56.680 --> 00:33:58.240
an orb. Yeah.

601
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:03.700
I'm assuming it was a UFO, not an orb. You know,

602
00:34:03.740 --> 00:34:06.670
I have my thoughts on orbs and, and, This was

603
00:34:06.970 --> 00:34:10.099
more way up in the sky. I'm talking, it started

604
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:13.519
way up in the sky and started making its way

605
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:18.420
down to communicate more to us. And when I was

606
00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:21.139
going to continue, I'm that guy that's, hey, let's try

607
00:34:21.179 --> 00:34:24.929
this next, which I've learned over the years investigating. Sometimes

608
00:34:24.969 --> 00:34:28.210
you just got to quit while you're still ahead. You know,

609
00:34:28.230 --> 00:34:30.469
you don't need to keep pushing the envelope.

610
00:34:31.349 --> 00:34:32.469
Yeah, no, I get that.

611
00:34:33.150 --> 00:34:36.260
And that's actually some advice I've gotten from a lot

612
00:34:36.300 --> 00:34:40.880
of different Bigfoot researchers, which is like, Hey, you don't

613
00:34:40.900 --> 00:34:44.079
have to stay in the area until you're forced out.

614
00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:49.260
You can figure a nice time to leave and leave respectfully.

615
00:34:49.300 --> 00:34:53.469
That's kind of a big deal. So have you had

616
00:34:53.630 --> 00:34:55.829
interactions with orbs then over the years?

617
00:34:57.469 --> 00:35:01.679
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I, I, I, I, have an interesting

618
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:06.099
orb story now when i used to live down south

619
00:35:06.139 --> 00:35:09.849
there was this pond called rossi's pond and it had

620
00:35:09.909 --> 00:35:14.889
a story behind it it was the lover's lane car

621
00:35:14.909 --> 00:35:18.449
goes in the pond they drown well you know of

622
00:35:18.530 --> 00:35:20.860
course there's the local lore that if you go there

623
00:35:20.900 --> 00:35:24.539
at a certain time when the when it happened you

624
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:27.800
can actually see these ghosts rise from the water and

625
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:34.000
walk out onto the beach and walk away from the lake. Well,

626
00:35:34.059 --> 00:35:36.559
me being me, me and Mr. at the time didn't

627
00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:38.489
know when to stop pushing. I'm like, I'm going to

628
00:35:38.530 --> 00:35:42.190
go try that. Because everybody was telling me, kept telling me, hey,

629
00:35:42.230 --> 00:35:44.230
have you heard about this pond? Have you heard it? Finally,

630
00:35:44.269 --> 00:35:47.230
I went. And so I'm there and I'm at this

631
00:35:47.289 --> 00:35:49.869
sign time and I'm watching and I'm watching. I'm sitting

632
00:35:49.889 --> 00:35:53.230
in my vehicle at the time. And of course, I

633
00:35:53.570 --> 00:35:57.460
see these two balls of light, orbs come up from

634
00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:00.789
the pond. And I'm watching. And I'm like, what the

635
00:36:00.809 --> 00:36:04.650
hell are those? I was thinking maybe fireflies or something,

636
00:36:04.690 --> 00:36:08.840
trying to rationalize it. And they come out from the lake,

637
00:36:09.179 --> 00:36:12.699
these two orbs. And they're bouncing like somebody's walking, like

638
00:36:12.739 --> 00:36:16.079
how you'd walk. But I'm watching them bounce. They're going

639
00:36:16.179 --> 00:36:19.800
up and down, up and down, up and down. And

640
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:23.030
they pass right by my truck, these two orbs. It's

641
00:36:23.090 --> 00:36:25.530
two people walking side by side. They go right by

642
00:36:25.570 --> 00:36:28.190
the truck. And I get out of my truck and

643
00:36:28.230 --> 00:36:30.090
I'm watching these things and I get out of there

644
00:36:30.469 --> 00:36:34.289
and I look and where these orbs were, there were

645
00:36:34.329 --> 00:36:35.130
also footprints.

646
00:36:37.250 --> 00:36:37.730
Oh, no way.

647
00:36:38.449 --> 00:36:46.300
So they were leaving footprints as they're walking. So, you know, shoes,

648
00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:49.119
like one was like, you know, a pair of work boots.

649
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:51.599
Another one was like, you know, like what the girls

650
00:36:51.659 --> 00:36:54.960
used to wear, those saddle shoe things back in the day.

651
00:36:56.429 --> 00:36:59.590
Were they just, or sorry, sorry. I was just going

652
00:36:59.610 --> 00:37:04.420
to ask, or were they just wet? Like, I'm trying

653
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.380
to think of like, I've seen in movies where it's like,

654
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:09.539
you see the wet footprints appear or were they actually

655
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:10.699
leaving indentations?

656
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:16.090
Indentations. Wow. Like actual shoes. Like somebody was wearing these shoes,

657
00:37:17.030 --> 00:37:22.130
you know? And, and I'm like, and there's nothing there beforehand.

658
00:37:22.369 --> 00:37:24.969
I was, I looked and you know, the beach was,

659
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:29.300
pristine there was no footprints there was no nothing you

660
00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:32.840
know and so i and so i watched this happen

661
00:37:33.159 --> 00:37:36.039
and and uh yeah i had one of those disposable

662
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:38.860
cameras you know with the flat cardboard ones you could

663
00:37:38.900 --> 00:37:41.320
get at the drugstore with me and so i'm taking

664
00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:45.590
these pictures and then you know and they kept walking

665
00:37:45.670 --> 00:37:49.590
down the road and the footprints kept going until they

666
00:37:49.610 --> 00:37:52.530
went in the woods and and they ended It was

667
00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:55.659
the craziest orb moment I ever had in my life.

668
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:58.679
And ever since I've never seen anything like it. It was,

669
00:37:58.780 --> 00:38:00.800
it was very, very high strangeness.

670
00:38:01.780 --> 00:38:04.400
That's something that's some weird stuff. I don't get that

671
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:05.820
whole phenomenon myself.

672
00:38:05.900 --> 00:38:06.059
Yeah.

673
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:09.929
I've experienced it once in Tennessee, but you start hearing

674
00:38:09.949 --> 00:38:14.190
all these stories and it's like, it seems like it's

675
00:38:14.210 --> 00:38:19.889
a common denominator between, uh, You can have ghost accounts.

676
00:38:19.909 --> 00:38:22.769
You can have Bigfoot accounts. I'm sure there's other different

677
00:38:22.809 --> 00:38:26.170
categories where they appear. It's just one of those weird

678
00:38:26.269 --> 00:38:30.349
common denominators that are in all the stories. And it's like,

679
00:38:30.510 --> 00:38:34.130
I don't really understand what's going on there yet.

680
00:38:34.329 --> 00:38:37.230
But it is very, very, I mean, it's high strangeness.

681
00:38:37.329 --> 00:38:38.769
It's absolutely strange.

682
00:38:38.809 --> 00:38:41.940
Yeah. Yeah. Well, because these orbs were self-illuminated and they're

683
00:38:41.980 --> 00:38:44.920
making their own light. So now when I see orbs

684
00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:47.699
that people send me orb pictures, I'm like, nope, that's dust. Nope,

685
00:38:47.739 --> 00:38:49.570
that's a bug. How do you know? Because I've seen

686
00:38:49.710 --> 00:38:53.610
real orbs. That is not how they look. Yeah.

687
00:38:54.690 --> 00:38:56.650
Yeah, I'm right there. I'm right there with you, dude.

688
00:38:57.289 --> 00:39:00.579
It's weird, man. It's very, very, very weird.

689
00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:04.239
Uh, you, you've mentioned a few times, uh, you know, you,

690
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:07.219
you have, uh, you've been able, I've, I've imagined you've

691
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:09.329
done just probably hundreds and hundreds.

692
00:39:09.070 --> 00:39:12.409
Of interviews over the years for your show. You're probably

693
00:39:12.489 --> 00:39:12.929
way up there.

694
00:39:13.449 --> 00:39:16.409
Is there, uh, an interview that you were able to

695
00:39:16.590 --> 00:39:19.809
do that just was like, it really sticks out to

696
00:39:19.829 --> 00:39:22.710
you at the end. You're like, oh, that was just like, man,

697
00:39:22.750 --> 00:39:25.929
if I cut it off right now, like I could

698
00:39:25.949 --> 00:39:26.349
be happy.

699
00:39:26.389 --> 00:39:29.489
Like, you know, yes, yes.

700
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:33.119
But there's a story behind the interview okay uh okay

701
00:39:33.260 --> 00:39:37.159
um let me take you back to when i was

702
00:39:37.179 --> 00:39:39.519
a young radio guy and i got my very first

703
00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:43.780
job at my very first radio station after graduating and

704
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:47.489
it was um of all things and anyone that likes

705
00:39:47.530 --> 00:39:49.630
country music don't don't take this the wrong way but

706
00:39:49.750 --> 00:39:52.280
i'm personally not country music guy but if you are

707
00:39:52.550 --> 00:39:55.880
god bless you i got a job at a classic

708
00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:00.480
country music radio station working nights and it wasn't ideal

709
00:40:00.780 --> 00:40:02.900
it wasn't what i was after i wanted to set

710
00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:04.840
the world on fire i wanted to be the you

711
00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:07.019
know the next big voice in radio but you know

712
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:10.900
i had to start somewhere and so i was working

713
00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:13.619
at this radio station and um i was working overnights

714
00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:17.250
and and every Every morning, every Sunday morning, there was

715
00:40:17.309 --> 00:40:20.590
a guy named Roy Johnson and he was a real cowboy.

716
00:40:20.889 --> 00:40:24.530
I mean like legit cowboy, like at this time, this

717
00:40:24.590 --> 00:40:31.599
is circa 1994, five, somewhere in there. And, um, so

718
00:40:31.659 --> 00:40:34.000
he was already his, in his eighties at this point,

719
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:37.099
and he had lived a full life, like Boston Bronx

720
00:40:37.179 --> 00:40:38.940
and doing a whole, you know, he used to tell

721
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:42.739
me about driving cattle from Kansas to Texas, you know,

722
00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:45.800
like the real cowboy stuff, riding the ranch. But he

723
00:40:45.860 --> 00:40:49.510
kind of fell into radio, you know, later in life

724
00:40:49.670 --> 00:40:52.489
where he found his passion to talk about his stories

725
00:40:52.929 --> 00:40:56.650
on air. And he'd play his old school country music,

726
00:40:56.690 --> 00:41:00.019
you know, like old Hank Williams and Merle Haggard and

727
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:02.480
stuff like that. And so I got to know him

728
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:06.260
really well. He was a really a nice guy. And

729
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:10.230
but anyhow. Every Sunday morning, he'd come in for his

730
00:41:10.309 --> 00:41:12.909
radio show. And I would always do what we used

731
00:41:12.929 --> 00:41:15.110
to call, they're called ramps. And that's just a long

732
00:41:15.250 --> 00:41:18.309
set of music before the next DJ comes into the booth.

733
00:41:18.809 --> 00:41:20.949
And if you like the next DJ that's coming in,

734
00:41:20.989 --> 00:41:24.139
you'll give them like a 20-minute ramp. That way, they

735
00:41:24.179 --> 00:41:26.739
don't have to run into the station and get in,

736
00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:29.559
sit down, and start working right away. If you don't

737
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:31.519
like them, you give them a five-minute ramp and say,

738
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:34.679
there you go, man. Do your thing. So Roy, I

739
00:41:34.699 --> 00:41:37.920
always give him a generous 20-minute ramp. And really the

740
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:39.679
reason why I did that was so I could go

741
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.059
talk to him. Cause I just enjoyed talking to me.

742
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:44.659
I always had some great stories and stuff like that.

743
00:41:45.500 --> 00:41:49.230
And so I was, uh, like any other Sunday morning,

744
00:41:49.289 --> 00:41:51.989
Roy shows up to the, to the station and, and

745
00:41:52.190 --> 00:41:54.809
he used to wear, he used to wear a really

746
00:41:54.869 --> 00:41:58.260
heavy dose of Stetson cologne. You'd smell them before you'd

747
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:00.699
come in, you know, not old days, you know, where

748
00:42:00.739 --> 00:42:04.420
Stetson cologne, he'd drink his black coffee and, you know,

749
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:06.699
and he'd have always in a styrofoam cup and, you know,

750
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:11.070
always talk a little bit about baseball, big Texas Ranger fan. And, uh,

751
00:42:11.179 --> 00:42:13.550
you know, and, and, and so we're talking back and

752
00:42:13.570 --> 00:42:17.409
forth and nothing's a mess at this point. Everything's normal. He's,

753
00:42:18.010 --> 00:42:20.789
he's drinking his coffee, smelling like Stetson. And he says, well,

754
00:42:21.010 --> 00:42:23.230
I gotta go get to work. And I said, all right, Roy,

755
00:42:23.250 --> 00:42:25.929
good talking to you. And so I'm leaving now. This

756
00:42:25.989 --> 00:42:30.429
is a two story radio station where our broadcast booths

757
00:42:30.670 --> 00:42:34.840
are upstairs and And our legal stuff, you know, like

758
00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:37.940
to sell radio time and traffic and all that stuff

759
00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:40.760
is downstairs. So, and you had to go through this

760
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:44.199
long hallway with offices left and right of you. And

761
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:46.440
at the very end was the general manager's office. And

762
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:49.760
my general manager at the time, his name was Dennis.

763
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.820
And Dennis was an old school radio guy. I mean,

764
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.940
he was hard living, but I'll tell you one thing,

765
00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:58.539
he didn't like to be there on weekends. And to

766
00:42:58.619 --> 00:43:02.050
see him there on a Sunday, you know, the station

767
00:43:02.090 --> 00:43:04.239
would have had to be on fire for Dennis to

768
00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:07.400
be at the station on Sunday, like something terrible has

769
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.340
gone on. Well, so there's Dennis stand at the end

770
00:43:10.380 --> 00:43:15.300
of the hallway. My first thought, Jeremiah, to be honest,

771
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:19.119
was that I'm getting fired. My radio career is done.

772
00:43:19.699 --> 00:43:22.139
And once you get fired in radio back, especially back

773
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:25.650
in those days, it wasn't like podcasting stuff today. You're

774
00:43:25.690 --> 00:43:28.469
done in the business because they blackball you like, oh, yeah,

775
00:43:28.530 --> 00:43:31.190
because it travel quick you know why you got fired

776
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:34.320
so i was nervous i was gonna get fired so

777
00:43:34.340 --> 00:43:36.360
i walked up to dennis and i said dennis uh

778
00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:38.860
you know what brings you into the radio station you

779
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:42.039
know how's it going you know trying to gauge what

780
00:43:42.099 --> 00:43:46.090
his mindset was he says well he says i i

781
00:43:46.570 --> 00:43:49.510
i got i'm here because i gotta fill a fill

782
00:43:49.530 --> 00:43:52.329
a you know a shift i'm like well i'm thinking

783
00:43:52.409 --> 00:43:56.719
myself i'm here roy is here everybody that needs to

784
00:43:56.760 --> 00:43:59.820
be at the station sunday morning is here So I

785
00:43:59.860 --> 00:44:02.920
tell him, no, if you got a call, you know,

786
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:05.159
like someone was sick or what have you, you know,

787
00:44:05.179 --> 00:44:07.480
we're all here. We're all counted for and we're all working.

788
00:44:08.860 --> 00:44:12.039
He says, no, that just can't be. That's impossible. And

789
00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:15.289
I said, well, Dennis, what do you mean? He says,

790
00:44:15.789 --> 00:44:16.989
Roy died last night.

791
00:44:17.690 --> 00:44:18.010
Wow.

792
00:44:19.530 --> 00:44:24.010
Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Hold on. Roy died.

793
00:44:24.190 --> 00:44:30.159
He says, yeah, his wife called me because... you know,

794
00:44:30.739 --> 00:44:34.559
to let me know what had happened to him. You know,

795
00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:38.070
she woke up, he was unresponsive. He had a heart

796
00:44:38.110 --> 00:44:41.530
attack in his sleep. He passed away. And I turned

797
00:44:41.730 --> 00:44:45.050
white and I, and I, and I said, that, that

798
00:44:45.090 --> 00:44:48.630
just can't be that. That just, that just can't be Dennis.

799
00:44:49.510 --> 00:44:49.769
Why?

800
00:44:49.829 --> 00:44:53.239
He says, Roy's upstairs. I talked to him. I talked

801
00:44:53.260 --> 00:44:54.880
to him for 10 minutes.

802
00:44:54.900 --> 00:44:55.239
He's upstairs.

803
00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:59.269
He's upstairs. So I turn around and I start making

804
00:44:59.309 --> 00:45:02.610
my way back up to the studios. And Dennis says, well,

805
00:45:02.630 --> 00:45:04.210
where are you going? And I said, well, I'm going

806
00:45:04.230 --> 00:45:07.809
to show you Roy's here. Let's, you know, let's go. See,

807
00:45:07.869 --> 00:45:11.349
he humors me and we go upstairs and there's no Roy.

808
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:16.760
The station is empty. Like, and my ramp is almost done.

809
00:45:16.900 --> 00:45:19.320
Like I'm on my last song of that ramp up.

810
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:22.500
And I remember I went in the break room because

811
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:26.079
it was adjacent to our broadcast booths. And I sat

812
00:45:26.139 --> 00:45:30.739
down and Dennis is, are you all right? I mean,

813
00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:33.780
you know, he thought I was broken up by Roy dying.

814
00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:34.519
We were close.

815
00:45:36.099 --> 00:45:39.039
And I said, no, you don't understand. Roy was here.

816
00:45:39.460 --> 00:45:42.599
I talked to him and, and for a second there,

817
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:45.280
I started questioning my own sanity that maybe I was,

818
00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:48.449
but hit the cup he was drinking out of still

819
00:45:48.469 --> 00:45:52.090
the hot coffee on the table and the smell of

820
00:45:52.130 --> 00:45:55.949
Stetson was still in the air. And so it was

821
00:45:56.170 --> 00:46:00.829
all there. right? And so I'm like, this really, Dennis,

822
00:46:00.849 --> 00:46:02.929
this really happened. And, and of course, see it in

823
00:46:02.969 --> 00:46:06.710
his eyes where he was like, you know, right. Maybe

824
00:46:06.730 --> 00:46:09.090
you're just a shock. I knew you knew the guy

825
00:46:09.110 --> 00:46:11.230
really well. You'd been working with him a few years.

826
00:46:12.409 --> 00:46:14.030
He says, you know, I know you got a weekend

827
00:46:14.050 --> 00:46:17.070
because this Sunday, I had Tuesday, you know, Monday, Tuesday off.

828
00:46:17.150 --> 00:46:18.949
He says, why don't you take an extra day? We'll

829
00:46:18.969 --> 00:46:21.489
get somebody to fill in for your, you know, just

830
00:46:21.510 --> 00:46:23.889
take a few days off and, and maybe just need

831
00:46:23.909 --> 00:46:26.400
some time to, you know, cause I was a night shift.

832
00:46:27.170 --> 00:46:30.530
Gather yourself, you know, get some rest. And so what

833
00:46:30.610 --> 00:46:34.329
really scared me almost more than seeing Roy was it

834
00:46:34.389 --> 00:46:37.900
dawned on me on my days off. What am I

835
00:46:37.900 --> 00:46:42.219
going to do if he comes back? What am I

836
00:46:42.260 --> 00:46:45.719
going to do if I'm in the station by myself,

837
00:46:47.179 --> 00:46:50.139
knowing what I know now and Roy comes back? Because

838
00:46:50.760 --> 00:46:53.699
bear in mind, I'm a 27-year-old kid. I'm damn near

839
00:46:53.739 --> 00:46:56.199
fresh out of college. I don't have the tools to

840
00:46:56.260 --> 00:46:59.239
deal with any of this. And at this time, I

841
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:03.500
wasn't into the paranormal. I mean, I knew I'd done

842
00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:06.699
a little investigating because I had to for the station

843
00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:09.199
during Halloween time. But it wasn't like I was deep

844
00:47:09.260 --> 00:47:12.590
into this. So I had no idea what to do.

845
00:47:14.269 --> 00:47:16.789
And so I prayed to the good Lord. I'm like, Lord,

846
00:47:16.929 --> 00:47:21.360
please just protect me from this. that I don't want

847
00:47:21.380 --> 00:47:25.940
to deal with that. So after a few days goes

848
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:28.860
by and, and, and I go back to work and,

849
00:47:29.780 --> 00:47:33.750
and I try to, you know, gauge how people, you know,

850
00:47:33.809 --> 00:47:36.369
when I kind of said to a buddy of mine, yeah,

851
00:47:36.530 --> 00:47:39.969
something happened weird the other morning. And of course, no,

852
00:47:40.030 --> 00:47:43.690
everyone looked at me like I was from Mars, you know, like, Oh, sure. Sure.

853
00:47:43.730 --> 00:47:47.159
That happened. Yeah. And Casper showing up for the third

854
00:47:47.260 --> 00:47:51.170
shift tonight, you know, right. So I kind of backed

855
00:47:51.309 --> 00:47:53.010
off because the last thing you want is to get

856
00:47:53.030 --> 00:47:56.659
the labels that crazy guy, right, in the office. You

857
00:47:56.679 --> 00:48:00.000
don't want that label of that weirdo, you know. And

858
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:04.639
so I ended up getting another job. I started looking

859
00:48:04.659 --> 00:48:08.679
for other broadcast positions. And I happened to find one

860
00:48:09.010 --> 00:48:11.809
at a CPS affiliate. So as soon as I was

861
00:48:11.869 --> 00:48:14.690
able to get that station, I did. And I was

862
00:48:14.789 --> 00:48:17.269
working there and I used to be a board op

863
00:48:17.369 --> 00:48:19.170
for a show called Coast to Coast AM.

864
00:48:19.929 --> 00:48:21.400
Oh, I was just going to ask you.

865
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:25.380
Yeah, and I was the board op. Because back in

866
00:48:25.420 --> 00:48:27.719
those days, we didn't have automation like we do. Your

867
00:48:27.739 --> 00:48:31.199
work kicks over. You had to have somebody hit the

868
00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:34.070
buttons to get them on. And so I got to

869
00:48:34.110 --> 00:48:37.070
know Art Bell really well. I was just going to

870
00:48:37.150 --> 00:48:40.769
ask you this. Yeah, we would talk quite often. Me

871
00:48:40.809 --> 00:48:46.170
and Art actually became quite close. Wow. And so I

872
00:48:46.230 --> 00:48:49.760
had this great idea. Yeah. went to my program director

873
00:48:49.780 --> 00:48:52.530
and I said, Hey, you know, we're in a big market.

874
00:48:52.590 --> 00:48:54.849
We're in the Dallas market. Why don't we get a

875
00:48:54.929 --> 00:48:57.889
good solid lead in show for coast to coast? Because

876
00:48:57.969 --> 00:49:02.349
coast to coast has all these sponsors. Maybe we could

877
00:49:02.369 --> 00:49:05.300
get those same sponsors to want to, because in radio,

878
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:07.099
you got to talk to them about dollars and cents.

879
00:49:07.139 --> 00:49:09.900
They don't care about anything else, but the money, right?

880
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:12.920
So if you say, Hey, I want to get a

881
00:49:12.940 --> 00:49:15.199
paranormal show going because I want to answer my own

882
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:18.679
ghost questions. They're going to say, no, But if you say, hey,

883
00:49:18.820 --> 00:49:22.139
I want to create a show that can create revenue,

884
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:26.659
then they're more apt to listen. So I went up

885
00:49:26.699 --> 00:49:29.199
to my program director. I said, hey, I think that

886
00:49:29.260 --> 00:49:33.289
if we did a local call-in show like a coast-to-coast,

887
00:49:34.230 --> 00:49:38.019
we can actually double up on our revenue. I said, well,

888
00:49:38.059 --> 00:49:40.039
that's a great idea. Why don't you go over and

889
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:42.340
talk to Bob down there, my general manager and the

890
00:49:42.380 --> 00:49:45.579
new general manager that I had. Run up by him,

891
00:49:46.300 --> 00:49:49.179
see if he will let you have any kind of

892
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:52.630
airtime because airtime is precious. And so I went and

893
00:49:52.670 --> 00:49:54.949
talked to him and I said, hey, Bob, I think

894
00:49:54.989 --> 00:49:58.469
that we can get a good solid lead in show

895
00:49:58.489 --> 00:50:00.849
for Coast to Coast AM. And Bob didn't even like

896
00:50:00.889 --> 00:50:04.789
Coast to Coast. He goes, oh, that trash. I'm like, yeah,

897
00:50:04.829 --> 00:50:06.639
but he liked it because it made him money. That

898
00:50:06.679 --> 00:50:08.599
was the only reason why the people were wrong, because

899
00:50:08.659 --> 00:50:10.559
it was making him money. But he didn't believe in

900
00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:13.199
any of that stuff. He says, oh, yeah, the woo-hoo show.

901
00:50:13.219 --> 00:50:15.699
You know what? He says, tell you what. I don't

902
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:18.360
necessarily agree with what you're telling me, that we can

903
00:50:18.500 --> 00:50:21.050
get a show like that going. But I will give

904
00:50:21.070 --> 00:50:24.750
you one hour on the AM side. After hours, though.

905
00:50:24.769 --> 00:50:27.869
It has to be after hours AM is when it

906
00:50:27.909 --> 00:50:31.989
has to be. I said, all right. We can do that.

907
00:50:32.150 --> 00:50:33.949
And I had some buddies of mine that worked on

908
00:50:33.969 --> 00:50:36.280
the FM side that said, hey, if you guys have

909
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:38.659
nothing to do tonight, turn into this radio station on

910
00:50:38.679 --> 00:50:41.500
the AM side. We got a great new show that's

911
00:50:41.539 --> 00:50:44.860
coming on. You might want to tune in and see

912
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.760
what he has to say. So they threw me on

913
00:50:47.780 --> 00:50:50.840
them behind the microphone, no prep or anything. They're like, well,

914
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:55.320
go do your show. Show us what you got. No guest,

915
00:50:55.539 --> 00:50:59.050
no prep, no nothing. They even have intro music. So

916
00:50:59.070 --> 00:51:02.099
I cracked the microphone and I said, well, I don't

917
00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:03.739
know what to call this thing. But for now, it's

918
00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:07.460
called After Hours AM because that's all they give us

919
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:10.480
is after hours on the AM side. And so the

920
00:51:10.980 --> 00:51:14.559
lines start lighting up, like people start calling because I

921
00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:16.840
put it out there. Hey, have you ever seen anything weird?

922
00:51:17.019 --> 00:51:19.260
Call me. This is the call in number. Have you

923
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:22.079
ever seen this happen? You ever have that happen? People

924
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:25.300
start calling in like mad from that area. They want

925
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:28.530
to talk about the weird things that they'd seen. Because

926
00:51:28.730 --> 00:51:31.670
nobody else is listening. And trying to call in the

927
00:51:31.710 --> 00:51:34.150
coast to coast was a million to one odds you're

928
00:51:34.170 --> 00:51:35.989
going to be getting on there to talk about it.

929
00:51:36.849 --> 00:51:39.789
It was so flooded with so many calls. So here

930
00:51:39.869 --> 00:51:43.190
I had this audience that were calling in and we

931
00:51:43.230 --> 00:51:45.989
really became a hit. We did really well with that show.

932
00:51:46.050 --> 00:51:49.469
But what I did was because of what I endured

933
00:51:49.510 --> 00:51:53.980
with Roy, I used that opportunity to book like Hans Holzer.

934
00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:58.000
the Warrens, all these different paranormal investigators come on the

935
00:51:58.179 --> 00:52:03.780
air really to answer my own questions about the paranormal.

936
00:52:04.179 --> 00:52:07.989
Like I wanted answers. Was this normal? Tell them what

937
00:52:08.030 --> 00:52:12.809
happened to me. And they're like, no, that actually is

938
00:52:12.869 --> 00:52:15.030
very normal what you're talking about. A lot of people

939
00:52:15.070 --> 00:52:18.219
experience that. You're not the only one. And they just,

940
00:52:18.469 --> 00:52:21.260
you know, kind of tell me stories and, and really,

941
00:52:22.690 --> 00:52:26.050
Another big source at the time was a guy named

942
00:52:26.070 --> 00:52:29.940
Brad Steiger out of Iowa. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. And

943
00:52:30.699 --> 00:52:34.460
we became close friends. At that time, I'd call him

944
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:37.900
or write him letters, and we'd correspond back and forth.

945
00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:41.110
And that's really how I got my start in this

946
00:52:41.170 --> 00:52:43.929
whole paranormal investigation. So I kind of took it from

947
00:52:43.969 --> 00:52:48.070
there and started getting more answers for myself using the

948
00:52:48.110 --> 00:52:51.679
radio show to get answers for myself.

949
00:52:52.340 --> 00:52:56.280
It's such a fascinating story. Wild, wild stuff.

950
00:52:58.210 --> 00:53:04.610
So if you would be willing to have the discussion,

951
00:53:04.730 --> 00:53:08.420
what was it like being able to, you know, have

952
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:11.599
that kind of relationship with Art Bell and being able, like,

953
00:53:11.699 --> 00:53:13.780
what was it like to just kind of to talk

954
00:53:13.820 --> 00:53:14.139
to him?

955
00:53:14.380 --> 00:53:16.619
Do you have any fond memories?

956
00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:19.389
Art was very down to earth. You know, he gave

957
00:53:19.409 --> 00:53:21.329
me a lot of pointers and talk radio. He gave

958
00:53:21.349 --> 00:53:23.929
me a lot of pointers, you know, and, and especially

959
00:53:23.949 --> 00:53:27.030
when I started the show, you know, um, I'd call

960
00:53:27.090 --> 00:53:29.349
him up and I'd say, Hey, art, you know, what,

961
00:53:29.389 --> 00:53:31.159
what do you suggest I do for the lead in

962
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:33.199
show in this market? You know, for you, I mean,

963
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:35.980
you know, and we talked for a couple hours here

964
00:53:36.019 --> 00:53:38.860
and there and, and we talked shop and he, he

965
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:40.940
kind of tell me what he does and how he

966
00:53:40.980 --> 00:53:44.030
builds the audience, how he builds the tension. you know,

967
00:53:44.070 --> 00:53:45.869
really kind of sat me down and said, hey, if

968
00:53:45.929 --> 00:53:48.309
you want to do this genre of talk radio, because

969
00:53:48.369 --> 00:53:51.260
it's unlike anything else in the world, this genre of

970
00:53:51.300 --> 00:53:54.659
talk radio. It's not like politics. It's not like anything else.

971
00:53:55.300 --> 00:53:59.460
You're setting a stage for those listeners. It's truly theater

972
00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:03.420
of the mind. And you're setting a comfortable place for

973
00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:07.489
them to come talk. And that also is equally as important.

974
00:54:07.510 --> 00:54:10.750
So they don't feel like the caller or the guest

975
00:54:11.469 --> 00:54:12.730
don't feel like they're being judged.

976
00:54:14.590 --> 00:54:17.920
That is fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. So you were, I want

977
00:54:17.940 --> 00:54:19.219
to make sure I have it right. So you were

978
00:54:19.300 --> 00:54:22.500
a board op. Is that like board operator for coast

979
00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:23.300
to coast AM?

980
00:54:23.599 --> 00:54:25.300
Yeah. Yep. For our market. Yep.

981
00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:28.769
And can you explain a little bit about what that

982
00:54:28.909 --> 00:54:29.730
actually means?

983
00:54:30.030 --> 00:54:30.949
A board operator.

984
00:54:31.989 --> 00:54:35.190
So when coast to coast to come on the air,

985
00:54:36.369 --> 00:54:39.840
we had to, they called it a gateway at that time. And, and,

986
00:54:40.610 --> 00:54:43.530
And it was done through way back in the day.

987
00:54:43.570 --> 00:54:46.190
It was done through a T1 line is what we

988
00:54:46.210 --> 00:54:49.929
were using at that time. And so we had a

989
00:54:49.969 --> 00:54:53.050
T1 line and you'd actually have to hit the initiate

990
00:54:53.110 --> 00:54:56.289
button on the board. So it bring air and it

991
00:54:56.329 --> 00:55:00.349
bring art into our airwaves. And so it basically opened

992
00:55:00.369 --> 00:55:04.190
the gate for that signal to come through. But while

993
00:55:04.230 --> 00:55:07.969
you're there, you had to put the commercials in. Because

994
00:55:07.989 --> 00:55:10.239
you get tones in your ear that Art's getting ready

995
00:55:10.260 --> 00:55:12.230
to go to commercial. You get a tone in your ear,

996
00:55:12.300 --> 00:55:14.380
not like, hey, we're going to commercial. It'd be a tone.

997
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:17.280
And then you hit a button for our local commercials

998
00:55:17.340 --> 00:55:20.719
to hit. And then that would play while Art was

999
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:24.449
doing his own thing. Every market had that tone that

1000
00:55:24.489 --> 00:55:27.010
went through. So you knew when to hit your button

1001
00:55:27.050 --> 00:55:31.769
for your commercials. And so I did that for several years.

1002
00:55:33.429 --> 00:55:35.610
But what was cool is I got paid to listen

1003
00:55:35.650 --> 00:55:38.269
to Coast to Coast Amps. I got paid to listen

1004
00:55:38.309 --> 00:55:41.519
to Art Bell. I remember I was a board op

1005
00:55:41.659 --> 00:55:45.039
when Mel's Hole happened. Oh, my goodness.

1006
00:55:45.139 --> 00:55:45.619
Oh, man.

1007
00:55:45.659 --> 00:55:47.920
So you remember Mel's Hole live?

1008
00:55:47.940 --> 00:55:51.519
I do. I was there and I'm listening to Mel

1009
00:55:51.579 --> 00:55:55.340
Waters on. And we had him on our show. We

1010
00:55:55.420 --> 00:55:58.059
actually talked to Mel Waters. We actually got him booked

1011
00:55:58.139 --> 00:56:02.300
to talk about his hole as well. And, and what

1012
00:56:02.340 --> 00:56:05.639
a wild show, you know, cause it was totally unexpected.

1013
00:56:05.659 --> 00:56:10.909
It was during open call, open lines. Yeah. You know,

1014
00:56:11.030 --> 00:56:14.150
and so I'll never forget that cause I'm listening. What

1015
00:56:14.190 --> 00:56:16.130
do you mean this guy has got an endless hole

1016
00:56:16.190 --> 00:56:19.750
in Washington? You know, so I'm listening and I'm almost

1017
00:56:19.969 --> 00:56:22.250
missing my tone in my ear to go to commercial

1018
00:56:22.269 --> 00:56:25.820
cause I'm so enthralled with what he's saying. And so,

1019
00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:27.980
you know, then I hit the tone and go to commercial,

1020
00:56:28.340 --> 00:56:32.010
but when When I'm on commercial, I have one, I

1021
00:56:32.250 --> 00:56:36.389
can also hear Art talking to his guest. Yeah, I mean,

1022
00:56:36.409 --> 00:56:39.699
so our stuff is playing, but I'm also hearing their

1023
00:56:39.780 --> 00:56:43.719
end real time. So yeah, yeah. So you learn a

1024
00:56:43.820 --> 00:56:47.940
lot about strategizing for your show by listening to what

1025
00:56:47.980 --> 00:56:50.539
they're doing too. You know, I learned a lot of

1026
00:56:50.579 --> 00:56:53.179
different things, a lot of different techniques that worked really

1027
00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:55.619
well over the years. Still do, still do.

1028
00:56:55.719 --> 00:56:59.480
Oh yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, those lessons could be used forever.

1029
00:57:00.820 --> 00:57:02.929
So what's your take on the Mel's whole thing when

1030
00:57:03.590 --> 00:57:06.210
you were able to have the conversation with him yourself?

1031
00:57:07.429 --> 00:57:08.429
What is your take on that?

1032
00:57:10.769 --> 00:57:18.460
He, you know, talking, it's such a wild story. You

1033
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:22.559
have everything from salamander-like creatures coming out of there to

1034
00:57:22.599 --> 00:57:28.639
his cancer being cured. You know, I believe he believes.

1035
00:57:29.019 --> 00:57:29.960
Let's just put it that way.

1036
00:57:30.369 --> 00:57:33.559
I believe he believes I, I, I, I have a

1037
00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:36.320
hard time believing that there's an endless hole in Washington,

1038
00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:39.679
you know, that, that there's this, this hole. I mean,

1039
00:57:39.699 --> 00:57:44.300
he talks about having many, many miles of fishing line

1040
00:57:44.320 --> 00:57:47.309
and doing this and doing that. And, and, you know,

1041
00:57:47.429 --> 00:57:50.349
as dog coming back from, from being dead, you know,

1042
00:57:50.550 --> 00:57:55.190
so it's, it's quite honestly, it's, it's, I, like I said,

1043
00:57:55.349 --> 00:57:59.380
I believe he believes he's passed away now, but.

1044
00:58:00.179 --> 00:58:04.599
Oh yeah. Yeah. I w I would imagine. So you,

1045
00:58:04.900 --> 00:58:07.119
it's just incredible.

1046
00:58:06.579 --> 00:58:09.539
That you're able to have such a personal connection to

1047
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:13.619
that point of paranormal history. I mean, were you, do

1048
00:58:14.260 --> 00:58:16.679
you remember then like the area 51 caller?

1049
00:58:16.699 --> 00:58:19.309
I do. Yeah. Oh my goodness.

1050
00:58:19.349 --> 00:58:20.469
You were there for that.

1051
00:58:21.010 --> 00:58:21.170
Yeah.

1052
00:58:21.269 --> 00:58:23.489
I was there board op for all the shows. So,

1053
00:58:23.650 --> 00:58:26.659
you know, I would hear all of the, you know,

1054
00:58:26.780 --> 00:58:29.190
all the, I remember when Bob Lazar came on for

1055
00:58:29.210 --> 00:58:33.349
the first time too. Oh, wow. Doing that. And, you know,

1056
00:58:33.369 --> 00:58:36.489
it was, it was, it was very interesting time to

1057
00:58:36.530 --> 00:58:37.190
be in radio.

1058
00:58:39.289 --> 00:58:43.389
Did you, did you have any idea because you're thinking

1059
00:58:43.409 --> 00:58:46.550
of all these, like these episodes and segments from art

1060
00:58:46.590 --> 00:58:51.360
show and like, they are just touch points. Like they're

1061
00:58:51.980 --> 00:58:56.789
very important. paranormal history and did you have any idea

1062
00:58:56.829 --> 00:58:58.789
at the time like wow what I'm listening to right

1063
00:58:58.829 --> 00:59:01.230
now is extremely important or you just kind of like

1064
00:59:01.730 --> 00:59:04.349
this is a ride and I'm along for it and this.

1065
00:59:04.269 --> 00:59:07.389
Is a little bit of both you know because because

1066
00:59:07.449 --> 00:59:12.159
it was when they would talk that, you know, it was,

1067
00:59:12.260 --> 00:59:15.400
it was so interesting, you know, what they're talking about.

1068
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:18.480
Number one, but number two had a job to do too.

1069
00:59:18.500 --> 00:59:20.119
So I always had to keep my mind on what

1070
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:23.019
I was doing. So I really couldn't like, you know,

1071
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:26.280
but what would happen is I would say, Hey, Art,

1072
00:59:26.500 --> 00:59:28.539
I'll give him a call. And I'd say, hey, Art,

1073
00:59:28.579 --> 00:59:30.599
can I get the information to that guest you had

1074
00:59:30.699 --> 00:59:34.019
on this episode that night? Yeah. Yeah, we can do

1075
00:59:34.039 --> 00:59:36.880
that for you. And he would send me their information.

1076
00:59:37.099 --> 00:59:39.420
And I'd give him a call. I'd offer him to

1077
00:59:39.460 --> 00:59:42.000
come on. A good fair bit of him. Yeah, absolutely.

1078
00:59:42.019 --> 00:59:42.510
We'll come on.

1079
00:59:42.539 --> 00:59:43.019
We'll talk.

1080
00:59:43.860 --> 00:59:46.659
And so, you know, I was kind of using his

1081
00:59:46.739 --> 00:59:48.880
knowledge to get a lot of the people to come

1082
00:59:48.940 --> 00:59:51.570
on my show because I wanted to hear more. I

1083
00:59:51.610 --> 00:59:53.300
wanted to ask them my own questions.

1084
00:59:54.139 --> 00:59:55.369
You're the luckiest man alive.

1085
00:59:55.389 --> 01:00:00.489
So, So I guess talking specifically about After Hours AM,

1086
01:00:01.429 --> 01:00:05.820
how can my listeners check out your show?

1087
01:00:06.139 --> 01:00:09.440
Yeah, it's an iHeartRadio show. So absolutely pop on the

1088
01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:13.039
iHeart app, type in After Hours AM. You'll find that

1089
01:00:13.059 --> 01:00:15.739
we have over a decade of shows out there that

1090
01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:19.889
you can download. We have hundreds of episodes. Enjoy it.

1091
01:00:20.260 --> 01:00:23.530
And of course, I'm accessible to anyone that wants to

1092
01:00:23.789 --> 01:00:26.829
talk to me. I'm very accessible on Facebook. I have

1093
01:00:26.869 --> 01:00:31.780
a website at joelstrudgesbooks.com. You can get a hold of

1094
01:00:31.820 --> 01:00:35.679
all the books I'm selling, pre-orders, stuff like that. But again,

1095
01:00:35.699 --> 01:00:38.460
you know, I'm just very accessible. I answer everybody when

1096
01:00:38.500 --> 01:00:41.079
they get a hold of me on Facebook or email.

1097
01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:43.679
You know, I get a hold of everyone, talk about it.

1098
01:00:44.460 --> 01:00:50.750
And those days in radio, you know, they're special days.

1099
01:00:51.409 --> 01:00:52.809
You know, I don't know that we're ever going to

1100
01:00:52.829 --> 01:00:55.929
repeat those days. but it was cool to be a

1101
01:00:55.969 --> 01:00:56.559
part of it.

1102
01:00:57.630 --> 01:01:00.690
Oh, it's so cool. It's so cool, man. I, I got,

1103
01:01:00.710 --> 01:01:03.829
I got a few more. I'm, I'm, this is a

1104
01:01:03.869 --> 01:01:07.210
fun one because, uh, uh, there are certain interviews where

1105
01:01:07.250 --> 01:01:10.449
I will just nerd out too. And so the questions

1106
01:01:10.510 --> 01:01:12.610
are for me, uh, if you get what I mean.

1107
01:01:12.969 --> 01:01:14.969
Uh, I've done the same thing many times, man.

1108
01:01:14.989 --> 01:01:19.289
Did you have, did you have any connection with, to

1109
01:01:19.690 --> 01:01:22.489
or did you have any interviews with people connected to

1110
01:01:22.530 --> 01:01:23.940
skinwalker ranch over.

1111
01:01:23.860 --> 01:01:28.659
The years oh absolutely yeah many times yeah the original

1112
01:01:28.780 --> 01:01:32.059
owners were on um you had the sherman's on i

1113
01:01:32.099 --> 01:01:35.340
had the sherman's on many times and he explains how

1114
01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:37.889
he put that 357 magnum right to that you know

1115
01:01:37.969 --> 01:01:41.130
he shot that wolf and and you know and and

1116
01:01:41.349 --> 01:01:43.929
and he really went a deep detail on in fact

1117
01:01:44.050 --> 01:01:47.510
i've been to skinwalker ranch Myself, I put feet on

1118
01:01:47.570 --> 01:01:52.030
there before Bigelow owned it. And talk about a trip,

1119
01:01:52.130 --> 01:01:56.050
that area. It is, yeah, yeah.

1120
01:01:56.710 --> 01:01:58.789
How did you get to Skinwalker pre-Bigelow?

1121
01:01:59.869 --> 01:02:01.289
I knew their original owners.

1122
01:02:02.010 --> 01:02:02.809
Oh, my goodness.

1123
01:02:02.829 --> 01:02:05.050
So you were like, you talked to the Shermans, and

1124
01:02:05.090 --> 01:02:07.820
then you had a good rapport, and they were like,

1125
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:08.559
come on out.

1126
01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:13.139
Yeah, they invited me out. They said, hey, do you

1127
01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:15.880
want to come check it out? Because we're looking to sell.

1128
01:02:16.610 --> 01:02:19.139
And we don't know who's going to own it next.

1129
01:02:19.159 --> 01:02:21.059
Do you want to buy it, Joel?

1130
01:02:21.860 --> 01:02:22.679
Right, right.

1131
01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:24.880
And I didn't have enough money, obviously, to buy. I'm

1132
01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:28.800
just a low-paid radio guy. Otherwise, I so would have

1133
01:02:28.820 --> 01:02:31.280
bought it. They let me know that they're looking to

1134
01:02:31.340 --> 01:02:34.269
leave and looking to sell. And if I want to

1135
01:02:34.329 --> 01:02:37.349
come on and check the location out, because I got

1136
01:02:37.369 --> 01:02:39.670
to know them quite well. I talked to them on

1137
01:02:39.690 --> 01:02:42.190
the phone quite a bit. I'd call them just to

1138
01:02:42.230 --> 01:02:44.409
talk to them, like social calls. You know, how are

1139
01:02:44.429 --> 01:02:46.969
you guys doing? You know, what's new? And, you know,

1140
01:02:47.110 --> 01:02:50.429
and it was never for that reason to get on

1141
01:02:50.469 --> 01:02:53.429
the ranch. But, you know, it didn't hurt that we

1142
01:02:53.469 --> 01:02:57.139
were friends. So, you know, I went out there and

1143
01:02:57.159 --> 01:03:01.519
it was definitely, yeah, it was a weird, weird place.

1144
01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:02.480
It was crazy.

1145
01:03:08.019 --> 01:03:10.559
Did you have stuff happen when you're out? Did anything

1146
01:03:10.619 --> 01:03:11.420
weird happen?

1147
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:16.780
Yeah. That was the first time, and one of the

1148
01:03:16.820 --> 01:03:27.769
only times, I actually witnessed a time slip. UFOs were everywhere.

1149
01:03:29.139 --> 01:03:34.159
Some of these UFOs looked organic. They looked like creatures,

1150
01:03:34.300 --> 01:03:37.829
almost like sea creatures. You know, some of them, as

1151
01:03:37.929 --> 01:03:44.099
weird as that sounds, they almost looked aquatic. Yep. You know,

1152
01:03:44.739 --> 01:03:48.039
not like mechanical, but like living organisms.

1153
01:03:48.579 --> 01:03:50.300
You're seeing this with your eyes there.

1154
01:03:50.780 --> 01:03:51.769
Yes. Yes.

1155
01:03:51.889 --> 01:03:52.230
Okay.

1156
01:03:54.429 --> 01:03:56.869
Are you, when you say like sea creatures, are you

1157
01:03:56.909 --> 01:04:01.210
talking about like, I'm thinking the jellyfish?

1158
01:04:01.849 --> 01:04:02.289
Yeah. Yeah.

1159
01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:03.070
Like jellyfish, squid.

1160
01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:10.360
You know um plankton you know just really really very

1161
01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:16.090
odd okay and and what year would i think i

1162
01:04:16.130 --> 01:04:25.690
would expect more this would have been circa 1996 dude.

1163
01:04:23.030 --> 01:04:26.139
This is wild you're like hanging out at skinwalker ranch

1164
01:04:26.179 --> 01:04:28.019
with the sherman's on And it.

1165
01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:31.800
Was before Skinwalker Ranch. I mean, it was just the ranch.

1166
01:04:31.820 --> 01:04:33.469
Yeah, it was just the Sherman Ranch.

1167
01:04:33.829 --> 01:04:37.349
It was just the Sherman Ranch. So it wasn't Skinwalker

1168
01:04:37.369 --> 01:04:39.690
or anything. It was just their ranch that they were

1169
01:04:39.730 --> 01:04:43.760
having some weird encounters on. They had dog men out there.

1170
01:04:43.820 --> 01:04:48.159
They had Bigfoot out there. Yeah, they saw it all

1171
01:04:48.179 --> 01:04:53.469
out there. And yeah, they had all. all of it

1172
01:04:53.670 --> 01:04:57.269
out there, but mainly the big headliner though, was the

1173
01:04:57.429 --> 01:05:01.489
ET stuff, the, the stuff in the sky, the extraterrestrial stuff,

1174
01:05:02.510 --> 01:05:06.929
you know, was, was, was the, the big thing. And

1175
01:05:06.969 --> 01:05:07.909
it didn't disappoint.

1176
01:05:08.610 --> 01:05:09.260
No, absolutely.

1177
01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:11.219
So they were telling you stories about dog man and

1178
01:05:11.239 --> 01:05:12.079
Bigfoot on the ranch.

1179
01:05:12.219 --> 01:05:16.380
Yeah. Yeah. They, they, he'd actually shot a shot at a,

1180
01:05:16.500 --> 01:05:19.380
what they didn't call dog man back then. He said

1181
01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:23.820
the upright walking dog. And he ended up shooting at it.

1182
01:05:27.429 --> 01:05:33.320
Okay. And wow. I don't think I've ever heard that one. Yeah.

1183
01:05:33.980 --> 01:05:37.139
You said it looks like a walking wolf. A person

1184
01:05:37.159 --> 01:05:40.409
like a person walking. And the body of a wolf.

1185
01:05:40.909 --> 01:05:45.409
Because you've got the story of what most people think

1186
01:05:45.469 --> 01:05:47.449
is the dire wolf on four legs.

1187
01:05:47.469 --> 01:05:47.539
Yes.

1188
01:05:49.030 --> 01:05:52.429
But or something that would they tried to shoot it

1189
01:05:52.449 --> 01:05:53.929
and they couldn't take it down.

1190
01:05:54.090 --> 01:05:54.320
Right.

1191
01:05:54.860 --> 01:05:57.360
That was the one that had his I think he

1192
01:05:57.400 --> 01:05:59.639
told me his cow or something like that.

1193
01:05:59.900 --> 01:06:00.079
Yeah.

1194
01:06:00.139 --> 01:06:00.519
Yeah.

1195
01:06:00.539 --> 01:06:00.880
Exactly.

1196
01:06:00.940 --> 01:06:01.420
Exactly.

1197
01:06:01.719 --> 01:06:04.199
And he told me that story. He had a 357

1198
01:06:04.199 --> 01:06:08.619
Magnum Smith and Wesson point blank range, put several rounds

1199
01:06:08.659 --> 01:06:11.500
into this dire wolf or wolf. He just called it

1200
01:06:11.579 --> 01:06:14.619
a wolf and it didn't kill it. In fact, it

1201
01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:16.789
didn't even acknowledge the rounds going into it.

1202
01:06:17.199 --> 01:06:17.400
Mm hmm.

1203
01:06:19.599 --> 01:06:20.159
And allowed.

1204
01:06:20.980 --> 01:06:22.179
Oh, my goodness. So a.

1205
01:06:24.800 --> 01:06:31.280
Bipedal dog-like creature on their ranch. Was this like around–

1206
01:06:31.630 --> 01:06:33.929
did they say it was like around a certain area

1207
01:06:34.130 --> 01:06:35.809
of the ranch or it was just like kind of

1208
01:06:35.989 --> 01:06:36.369
all over?

1209
01:06:36.389 --> 01:06:39.690
It was kind of sporadic. When I was speaking with them,

1210
01:06:39.750 --> 01:06:43.050
they were seeing it in different areas. The reason why

1211
01:06:43.090 --> 01:06:46.159
he shot at it is because it was taking– trying

1212
01:06:46.179 --> 01:06:50.000
to take some of their livestock. And that's why he

1213
01:06:50.019 --> 01:06:52.460
was firing at it. Not because he saw it, because

1214
01:06:52.519 --> 01:06:57.619
it was actively trying to take, harass his livestock. Yeah. Okay.

1215
01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:02.039
When I think of Bigfoot and Skinwalker Ranch, I think of,

1216
01:07:02.679 --> 01:07:04.699
there's a story you always hear about, like the, I

1217
01:07:05.619 --> 01:07:08.690
think like the bipedal creature coming out of the portal

1218
01:07:09.170 --> 01:07:12.889
and that's in the book. But you're saying there were

1219
01:07:12.929 --> 01:07:15.190
other things he was talking about that had to do

1220
01:07:15.210 --> 01:07:16.349
with Bigfoot, really?

1221
01:07:16.409 --> 01:07:17.210
Yep. Yeah.

1222
01:07:17.230 --> 01:07:17.550
Wow. Wow.

1223
01:07:18.989 --> 01:07:21.929
Do you remember any of those or well, you.

1224
01:07:21.869 --> 01:07:23.989
Know, a lot of data, a lot of sightings on

1225
01:07:24.010 --> 01:07:28.940
the ranch about, you know, hominids they'd seen from afar.

1226
01:07:29.739 --> 01:07:33.860
They were never worried about the big foot. There was more,

1227
01:07:34.119 --> 01:07:37.719
the wolf creatures that were harassing the livestock because they're

1228
01:07:37.739 --> 01:07:42.280
making money. That was their livelihood, you know? So that was,

1229
01:07:42.579 --> 01:07:44.480
you know, that was the thing that they're really worried

1230
01:07:44.519 --> 01:07:47.719
about the big foot creature. They just called it a

1231
01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:53.139
hairy creature. never messed with their with their you know

1232
01:07:53.179 --> 01:07:56.849
with anything they'd see it but it was never aggressive

1233
01:07:56.949 --> 01:07:59.130
it never made a move towards any of the animals

1234
01:07:59.489 --> 01:08:02.150
you know so they never had a reason to you

1235
01:08:02.190 --> 01:08:05.269
know have to defend themselves but it was more the

1236
01:08:05.329 --> 01:08:09.590
canine you know creatures that were that were harassing them

1237
01:08:09.630 --> 01:08:10.670
more than anything else.

1238
01:08:10.909 --> 01:08:13.369
It's wild it's like they've had so much stuff going

1239
01:08:13.489 --> 01:08:15.349
on they're like we're just going to focus on the

1240
01:08:15.409 --> 01:08:18.479
like the things that are trying to cause us harm

1241
01:08:18.529 --> 01:08:20.939
and the other stuff, they can, they can hang out

1242
01:08:20.979 --> 01:08:21.260
over there.

1243
01:08:21.300 --> 01:08:21.840
It's no problem.

1244
01:08:22.159 --> 01:08:24.640
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like, you know, and yeah, there's

1245
01:08:24.659 --> 01:08:26.939
some weird things here, but you know, it was almost

1246
01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:28.180
like they didn't care as long as they didn't mess

1247
01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:29.859
with the livestock. Right.

1248
01:08:29.960 --> 01:08:33.930
Yeah. Cause that's, yeah, it totally makes sense as ranchers,

1249
01:08:33.949 --> 01:08:39.869
you know? Uh-huh. Um, did they ever, oh man. Okay.

1250
01:08:39.890 --> 01:08:45.720
So as the, Background for me, I don't know if

1251
01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:47.680
you know this, so I'm going, I'm halfway through cancer

1252
01:08:47.699 --> 01:08:50.460
treatment right now. So like part of the thing that's

1253
01:08:50.520 --> 01:08:53.640
helping me through is I'm like nerding out on the

1254
01:08:53.659 --> 01:08:56.399
Skinwalker deal right oh thank.

1255
01:08:56.260 --> 01:08:59.380
You god god bless you and may the lord.

1256
01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:02.840
Heal you thank you thank you um so that's why

1257
01:09:02.859 --> 01:09:05.359
i'm so interested in this because it's like i'm nerding

1258
01:09:05.500 --> 01:09:07.770
out on it as part of like it's helping me

1259
01:09:07.859 --> 01:09:11.689
through this right so it's fascinating to talk to someone

1260
01:09:11.909 --> 01:09:14.409
that was able to be connected in in such a

1261
01:09:14.430 --> 01:09:23.109
way did they ever talk about like um Um, was it,

1262
01:09:23.439 --> 01:09:25.960
did they even call it homestead too? Or, or like,

1263
01:09:26.560 --> 01:09:27.359
you know what I'm talking about?

1264
01:09:27.399 --> 01:09:27.729
Like that.

1265
01:09:27.739 --> 01:09:29.470
Yeah, I know. I know what you're talking about. They

1266
01:09:29.550 --> 01:09:31.350
never really, they just call it, kind of called it

1267
01:09:31.390 --> 01:09:33.949
the ranch. Yeah. I mean, they just, their property, you know,

1268
01:09:33.970 --> 01:09:34.430
they didn't really.

1269
01:09:34.449 --> 01:09:35.149
Just weird stuff.

1270
01:09:35.510 --> 01:09:38.109
Wow. You know, they just said, Hey, we got some oddities.

1271
01:09:38.329 --> 01:09:42.399
And I really met them through art. Art knew them.

1272
01:09:43.140 --> 01:09:45.779
And then, then of course I started talking with them

1273
01:09:45.979 --> 01:09:47.920
on the side and, and I got to know them

1274
01:09:47.979 --> 01:09:51.210
real well, the family real well. and so I was

1275
01:09:51.310 --> 01:09:53.550
able to, you know, get access. And I, and at

1276
01:09:53.609 --> 01:09:56.100
that time, you know, it wasn't, like I said, it

1277
01:09:56.119 --> 01:09:59.300
wasn't called Skinwalker Ranch. It was just their, their homestead.

1278
01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:01.880
It was just where they lived. And they invited me

1279
01:10:01.979 --> 01:10:04.199
out to come, you know, check it out. If I

1280
01:10:04.260 --> 01:10:06.100
wanted to come stay in one of the, they had

1281
01:10:06.119 --> 01:10:08.239
a lot of outbuildings, a lot of bunk houses and

1282
01:10:08.260 --> 01:10:14.170
stuff like that. And so I'd stay and they, they,

1283
01:10:14.409 --> 01:10:17.090
you know, rare and daring folks and very, very salt

1284
01:10:17.130 --> 01:10:20.350
of the earth kind of people. And, and, And if

1285
01:10:20.390 --> 01:10:22.409
they claim they saw it, you can take that to

1286
01:10:22.449 --> 01:10:24.539
the bank, man. Cause they saw it. They were not

1287
01:10:24.579 --> 01:10:28.260
the type that would, you know, to me anyway, that

1288
01:10:28.279 --> 01:10:31.159
were really, you know, they didn't, they didn't really do

1289
01:10:31.199 --> 01:10:33.659
flights of fancy. They just kind of set up Leon, very,

1290
01:10:34.180 --> 01:10:37.409
very normal rancher type people. Right.

1291
01:10:37.550 --> 01:10:40.590
So, so you were staying in the bunk houses, so

1292
01:10:40.630 --> 01:10:45.310
not their actual house. Um, So if you– I don't

1293
01:10:45.319 --> 01:10:47.510
know if you've seen like the current show and like

1294
01:10:47.550 --> 01:10:48.470
the current Stay at the Ranch.

1295
01:10:48.529 --> 01:10:50.289
I never watched an episode of the show.

1296
01:10:50.369 --> 01:10:53.529
It would be really interesting to have you watch the

1297
01:10:53.569 --> 01:10:58.109
new show and because like everything, some of it is

1298
01:10:58.189 --> 01:11:00.689
broken down and be like, oh, that area that they're

1299
01:11:00.710 --> 01:11:02.689
always talking about, like I was staying in there in

1300
01:11:02.710 --> 01:11:03.239
the 90s.

1301
01:11:03.350 --> 01:11:04.949
That would be extremely interesting.

1302
01:11:05.029 --> 01:11:07.869
I can do that. Yeah. I don't watch– you know,

1303
01:11:07.890 --> 01:11:09.449
to be honest, I don't watch a lot of paranormal

1304
01:11:09.489 --> 01:11:13.659
TV because I find it boring. You know, it's like, well,

1305
01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:16.470
I've already been there. But no, I will. I'll check

1306
01:11:16.510 --> 01:11:16.850
that out.

1307
01:11:17.020 --> 01:11:19.869
In your archives then of After Hours AM, do you

1308
01:11:19.930 --> 01:11:22.789
have then an episode with the Shermans if you go

1309
01:11:22.869 --> 01:11:24.029
far back enough?

1310
01:11:25.050 --> 01:11:27.989
They've fallen off because that was in the 90s. So

1311
01:11:28.050 --> 01:11:30.949
I can get you though. I still have that episodes

1312
01:11:30.989 --> 01:11:34.140
though on my computer. So I can get those to

1313
01:11:34.180 --> 01:11:35.439
you in MP3 form.

1314
01:11:36.779 --> 01:11:40.289
That would be amazing. Dude, do you have like, you

1315
01:11:40.310 --> 01:11:42.130
got to put that old archival stuff up.

1316
01:11:43.210 --> 01:11:46.149
Yeah. Well, I was going to be doing that. Yeah.

1317
01:11:46.170 --> 01:11:49.729
That's the plan. Yeah. Is that we're going to be

1318
01:11:49.949 --> 01:11:53.119
circling back around and doing that. And we're going to

1319
01:11:53.140 --> 01:11:54.000
be doing the old.

1320
01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:58.060
Stuff, you know, that's the stuff people want that stuff.

1321
01:11:58.840 --> 01:12:01.800
Yeah. Oh, you know, they definitely do. And, you know,

1322
01:12:02.380 --> 01:12:05.979
that radio back then, no offense to anyone doing radio.

1323
01:12:06.020 --> 01:12:08.710
Now it was a hundred times better than it is today.

1324
01:12:08.729 --> 01:12:08.829
Yeah.

1325
01:12:09.500 --> 01:12:11.359
You know, and I don't know if it's because it

1326
01:12:13.579 --> 01:12:17.699
was just so new or, I mean, so unheard of

1327
01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:21.060
at the time, but it's just a different feel, you know,

1328
01:12:21.739 --> 01:12:24.420
when you listen to those. And I think it's because

1329
01:12:24.439 --> 01:12:28.369
how these people didn't want to make a buck, right?

1330
01:12:28.430 --> 01:12:32.149
These people weren't interested in, you know. when you, I'm

1331
01:12:32.229 --> 01:12:35.569
sure you're a very accomplished radio host and you know,

1332
01:12:35.630 --> 01:12:37.850
when you have someone on the show, that's looking for the,

1333
01:12:38.020 --> 01:12:40.800
you know, the fame, right. That they're looking, you know,

1334
01:12:40.840 --> 01:12:43.840
to further their agenda. These folks had no agenda.

1335
01:12:44.380 --> 01:12:44.520
Right.

1336
01:12:44.539 --> 01:12:47.600
They just wanted to say, Hey, this is what we experienced.

1337
01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:49.220
Take it or leave it. We don't care if you

1338
01:12:49.239 --> 01:12:50.159
believe us or not.

1339
01:12:51.739 --> 01:12:52.739
Man, it's wild.

1340
01:12:53.020 --> 01:12:56.270
Were you, so, you know, back in that time period,

1341
01:12:56.649 --> 01:12:59.949
did you go to other places as well to, to

1342
01:13:00.050 --> 01:13:03.090
investigate it as part of your your show you had

1343
01:13:03.170 --> 01:13:05.229
or is that kind of like an outlier going to

1344
01:13:05.250 --> 01:13:05.729
the it was an.

1345
01:13:05.770 --> 01:13:07.920
Outlier because you know i didn't get paid to go

1346
01:13:07.939 --> 01:13:10.199
you know do any of this stuff you know i

1347
01:13:10.220 --> 01:13:12.640
mean the radio station i wish it would have been

1348
01:13:12.699 --> 01:13:16.600
so cool you know um if they would have paid

1349
01:13:16.640 --> 01:13:18.939
for my trips but i get invited like to the

1350
01:13:19.010 --> 01:13:21.289
queen mary back in the day hey you want to

1351
01:13:21.310 --> 01:13:22.949
come to the queen mary check it out and this

1352
01:13:23.010 --> 01:13:26.090
is way back before it was so you know You know,

1353
01:13:26.350 --> 01:13:30.390
all these paranormal places like Waverly Hills before it was

1354
01:13:30.470 --> 01:13:31.630
all popular and stuff.

1355
01:13:31.750 --> 01:13:32.149
Oh, man. Yeah.

1356
01:13:32.350 --> 01:13:34.989
You know, people that knew, you know, because back then

1357
01:13:35.050 --> 01:13:37.090
it was just a place in Kentucky that was haunted.

1358
01:13:37.810 --> 01:13:40.140
And I think it was at that time the state

1359
01:13:40.229 --> 01:13:43.420
owned Waverly Hills. And nobody, you know, and so we

1360
01:13:43.539 --> 01:13:45.680
kind of snuck in, so to speak, you know, with,

1361
01:13:46.520 --> 01:13:47.800
you know, with some friends.

1362
01:13:47.819 --> 01:13:48.539
Allegedly.

1363
01:13:48.560 --> 01:13:52.140
Allegedly. And so, yeah, it was long before the hype. Well,

1364
01:13:52.319 --> 01:13:55.500
you know, to be honest, Jeremiah Goldstein, Shows like Ghost

1365
01:13:55.539 --> 01:13:57.800
Hunters when it came out, you know, kind of, you know,

1366
01:13:57.819 --> 01:14:02.439
like blew up the paranormal. Exactly. Before then, nobody really

1367
01:14:02.529 --> 01:14:04.390
talked about it. I mean, there were people like us

1368
01:14:04.430 --> 01:14:07.170
that obviously were talking about it, but it wasn't to

1369
01:14:07.210 --> 01:14:09.949
the mass. It wasn't to the masses yet where it was,

1370
01:14:10.029 --> 01:14:13.020
you know, you know, where Ghost Hunters now is a

1371
01:14:13.039 --> 01:14:17.180
household word. It wasn't really like that then. People didn't

1372
01:14:17.260 --> 01:14:18.560
really discuss it a lot.

1373
01:14:19.720 --> 01:14:22.260
I mean, it must have been, it's such an interesting

1374
01:14:22.300 --> 01:14:25.239
time right now, how prevalent everything is. You didn't happen

1375
01:14:25.260 --> 01:14:27.880
to have like a video camera going when you were

1376
01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:30.350
at the Sherman ranch, like just like, Hey, I'm traveling

1377
01:14:30.390 --> 01:14:31.909
around and this is my nineties.

1378
01:14:31.970 --> 01:14:34.430
I couldn't afford one. Oh man. You know, this is

1379
01:14:34.470 --> 01:14:37.689
back in the nineties and camcorders were big and heavy

1380
01:14:37.810 --> 01:14:38.649
and expensive.

1381
01:14:38.729 --> 01:14:39.470
I was just, yeah.

1382
01:14:39.630 --> 01:14:42.979
Right. Poor radio dude, you know? And, and so I

1383
01:14:43.020 --> 01:14:45.699
was just trying to experience what they're telling me over

1384
01:14:45.739 --> 01:14:48.979
the air. So, you know, and we just like I said,

1385
01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:52.479
we became good friends and I wasn't there. I was

1386
01:14:52.539 --> 01:14:54.500
really there as a guest and as a friend, not

1387
01:14:54.579 --> 01:14:57.579
as a, you know, observer or as an investigator. I

1388
01:14:57.619 --> 01:14:59.420
was there just because I was hanging out with my friends.

1389
01:15:00.319 --> 01:15:02.680
That's so cool. Oh, that is. I love that, Joel.

1390
01:15:02.899 --> 01:15:07.020
It's cool stuff really does come to good people in

1391
01:15:07.060 --> 01:15:08.239
this field, I think.

1392
01:15:08.619 --> 01:15:09.380
Oh, absolutely.

1393
01:15:09.500 --> 01:15:12.680
If you're a good person, you will have amazing adventures

1394
01:15:13.239 --> 01:15:16.359
that you will look back on fondly. Joel, I want

1395
01:15:16.380 --> 01:15:20.649
to make sure, of course, you've mentioned, and we talked

1396
01:15:20.689 --> 01:15:23.590
about it a few times, that you're an author. You

1397
01:15:23.649 --> 01:15:29.560
have a very interesting book that is going to be

1398
01:15:29.600 --> 01:15:30.640
available soon, correct?

1399
01:15:31.199 --> 01:15:32.039
Yeah.

1400
01:15:32.640 --> 01:15:34.720
Do you mind talking about that for a bit?

1401
01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:38.279
I don't mind a bit. I really enjoyed writing the

1402
01:15:38.319 --> 01:15:42.869
American Cryptid Hunter's Field Guide. I mean, I've written more, obviously, too,

1403
01:15:42.909 --> 01:15:45.930
but The reason why I wrote it is because when

1404
01:15:45.989 --> 01:15:50.319
I first started, I had no one to turn to. Like,

1405
01:15:50.380 --> 01:15:54.680
there wasn't like, how do I begin, right? And it

1406
01:15:54.699 --> 01:15:58.920
was during COVID. And everyone had all this downtime. And

1407
01:15:58.979 --> 01:16:01.220
I'm like, well, you know, what do I do? Because

1408
01:16:01.340 --> 01:16:05.859
I actually also own, in my real life, aside from radio,

1409
01:16:05.899 --> 01:16:09.130
I own a power sports company. And my company was

1410
01:16:09.569 --> 01:16:12.489
down because we couldn't sell four wheelers and stuff to anyone.

1411
01:16:12.510 --> 01:16:14.140
No one could come in. And so I had all

1412
01:16:14.149 --> 01:16:16.720
this time on my hands. And so I just kind

1413
01:16:16.760 --> 01:16:19.819
of had this idea of, boy, I remember those early

1414
01:16:19.859 --> 01:16:23.840
days of trying to figure my way through this. And

1415
01:16:23.859 --> 01:16:27.420
wouldn't it be cool if there was like, I don't

1416
01:16:27.460 --> 01:16:30.680
want to say, because I'm in no way an investigative God.

1417
01:16:31.739 --> 01:16:34.659
I'm no expert either. I'm just a guy that kind

1418
01:16:34.699 --> 01:16:38.069
of started and had a little bit of a background

1419
01:16:38.130 --> 01:16:40.850
in radio and kind of knew some of the questions

1420
01:16:40.890 --> 01:16:44.149
to ask. So it wouldn't be cool if there was

1421
01:16:44.170 --> 01:16:46.710
a book that maybe would take someone like me and say, hey,

1422
01:16:46.750 --> 01:16:48.109
if you want to get out in the field, these

1423
01:16:48.149 --> 01:16:49.710
are the things you're going to need to know even

1424
01:16:49.750 --> 01:16:54.050
before you hit the field. Or where to point your camera.

1425
01:16:54.069 --> 01:16:56.050
Don't point it to the west or the east because

1426
01:16:56.069 --> 01:16:59.130
there you get glint from the sun. You know, nobody

1427
01:16:59.189 --> 01:17:01.390
tells you those little tidbits. And so I kind of

1428
01:17:01.430 --> 01:17:06.310
threw everything I learned into this book. just everything, you know,

1429
01:17:06.729 --> 01:17:09.210
every cryptid, like when I went and looked for the Mothman,

1430
01:17:09.850 --> 01:17:12.670
what that was like, you know, you know, what, what

1431
01:17:12.750 --> 01:17:15.640
worked for that and what didn't work for that. Or

1432
01:17:15.720 --> 01:17:17.479
if I went, you know, cause I kind of started

1433
01:17:17.500 --> 01:17:22.319
looking for every, everything I could. And even Dogman went to,

1434
01:17:22.319 --> 01:17:26.460
I went to Elkhorn, Wisconsin with Linda Godfrey at the time,

1435
01:17:26.520 --> 01:17:29.600
rest her soul. We went up and down that highway

1436
01:17:29.640 --> 01:17:34.039
together looking when, when the story first broke, We, we,

1437
01:17:34.100 --> 01:17:38.140
we went out, her and I were still fresh. Oh, wow.

1438
01:17:38.300 --> 01:17:39.479
You were involved with that.

1439
01:17:39.500 --> 01:17:43.850
I was because we were friends. Linda was actually a

1440
01:17:43.869 --> 01:17:49.710
journalist before. Yeah. Yeah. And she worked at a station

1441
01:17:49.750 --> 01:17:53.170
called JJ. Oh, I do believe at the time. And,

1442
01:17:53.329 --> 01:17:56.649
and we got to know each other through radio circles.

1443
01:17:57.930 --> 01:18:00.170
And I was running the Dallas show at the time.

1444
01:18:00.250 --> 01:18:03.180
And she called me up. She goes, Hey, you got

1445
01:18:03.220 --> 01:18:06.520
that paranormal showdowns down there in Dallas, right? And I said, yeah, yeah,

1446
01:18:06.600 --> 01:18:10.680
I'm still doing it. And so she said, hey, want

1447
01:18:10.699 --> 01:18:13.100
to come up to Wisconsin and help me look for

1448
01:18:13.140 --> 01:18:17.159
this dog man? Or, you know, she didn't call it

1449
01:18:17.189 --> 01:18:21.409
a dog at the time. She said, this wolf creature? Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah,

1450
01:18:21.449 --> 01:18:26.149
let's go looking. And so, yeah, Linda was such an endearing,

1451
01:18:26.369 --> 01:18:30.829
wonderful lady. I mean, just what a wonderful person. We

1452
01:18:30.869 --> 01:18:35.220
lost a lot when we lost her. She was, she was,

1453
01:18:35.260 --> 01:18:38.159
but she was, she knew how to interview. I wish

1454
01:18:38.239 --> 01:18:40.760
I could interview people the way she did. She was

1455
01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:44.750
just so good with people and people. And when I

1456
01:18:44.810 --> 01:18:47.930
went there and I was, and I was, you know,

1457
01:18:48.050 --> 01:18:50.810
and she'd been working on the case for But when

1458
01:18:50.909 --> 01:18:55.079
I got involved about a year and I only came

1459
01:18:55.100 --> 01:18:58.159
to basically just kind of see what was up, what

1460
01:18:58.199 --> 01:19:03.079
was going on. But these people. You couldn't talk them

1461
01:19:03.180 --> 01:19:05.800
off the ledge. They know what they saw. They saw

1462
01:19:06.020 --> 01:19:08.859
a dogman. There was no way you were talking them

1463
01:19:08.939 --> 01:19:13.029
off that ledge. That was what they saw, full stop,

1464
01:19:13.140 --> 01:19:16.180
no matter what you told them, didn't matter because they

1465
01:19:16.220 --> 01:19:18.180
know what they saw. And they stuck to their guns

1466
01:19:18.880 --> 01:19:22.760
like no one I've ever seen before or since, really.

1467
01:19:22.859 --> 01:19:26.720
They were absolutely pounding on the table. That's what I saw.

1468
01:19:26.739 --> 01:19:29.979
And I believe them, 100%. 100% believe them.

1469
01:19:33.189 --> 01:19:35.430
Joel, I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible.

1470
01:19:35.449 --> 01:19:39.369
You are literally the Forrest Gump of paranormal history.

1471
01:19:39.390 --> 01:19:41.649
Do you know what I'm trying to say, though?

1472
01:19:41.689 --> 01:19:43.560
I do. Right place, right time.

1473
01:19:44.119 --> 01:19:50.920
It's incredible, dude. I know we've talked about Bigfoot.

1474
01:19:50.699 --> 01:19:52.819
A little bit, but were there any things that you

1475
01:19:52.840 --> 01:19:56.420
were involved with? to do with Bigfoot that looking back

1476
01:19:56.520 --> 01:19:58.380
on it now, you're like, oh, that was actually a

1477
01:19:58.699 --> 01:20:01.000
much bigger deal than I realized at the time.

1478
01:20:01.039 --> 01:20:02.720
The Lauren Coleman thing was bigger.

1479
01:20:03.020 --> 01:20:03.779
Okay, cool.

1480
01:20:03.880 --> 01:20:06.920
That was much bigger when I was in Falk, Arkansas

1481
01:20:07.699 --> 01:20:11.100
before it blew up to be the story it is today.

1482
01:20:11.119 --> 01:20:12.510
No way.

1483
01:20:12.619 --> 01:20:15.170
It was funny because I ended up at Falk, Arkansas.

1484
01:20:15.390 --> 01:20:17.850
I was in Atlas, Oklahoma at the time working at

1485
01:20:17.909 --> 01:20:22.930
a radio station, which is just south, basically below Arkansas.

1486
01:20:22.949 --> 01:20:23.149
Uh-huh.

1487
01:20:23.720 --> 01:20:27.140
And I was driving through Arkansas and I think, where

1488
01:20:27.180 --> 01:20:29.689
was I going? And I know it was a Springfield, Missouri.

1489
01:20:29.729 --> 01:20:31.909
I might've been driving to, I can't remember. And a

1490
01:20:32.010 --> 01:20:35.449
buddy of mine said, there's some weird things going on

1491
01:20:35.470 --> 01:20:39.250
in the fall. So you should stop there. Just talk

1492
01:20:39.270 --> 01:20:41.470
to a couple of people. And this is long before,

1493
01:20:41.489 --> 01:20:44.770
you know, while Blackburn or anyone.

1494
01:20:44.569 --> 01:20:46.449
Else was doing anything with it. Totally.

1495
01:20:46.510 --> 01:20:50.619
And so this is circa 1995. And I went up there,

1496
01:20:50.640 --> 01:20:53.420
and I'm like, hey. And there was a gas station.

1497
01:20:53.439 --> 01:20:54.920
I said, hey, what's this I hear where you guys

1498
01:20:54.939 --> 01:20:58.520
got this Bigfoot running around? And it was a cafe

1499
01:20:58.539 --> 01:21:02.770
gas station. I'm telling you, Jeremiah, these people were eating

1500
01:21:02.810 --> 01:21:05.270
and drinking. But as soon as I said that, everything stopped.

1501
01:21:05.829 --> 01:21:06.630
They're just like, er.

1502
01:21:07.390 --> 01:21:11.189
But, yep, they all turned and looked at me. And,

1503
01:21:11.289 --> 01:21:14.890
of course, growing up in Minnesota, I didn't have a

1504
01:21:15.069 --> 01:21:18.470
Texas drawl. I mean, I was definitely a Yankee. And

1505
01:21:18.489 --> 01:21:21.899
this old guy comes up to me and goes, what

1506
01:21:21.939 --> 01:21:25.859
the hell Yankee like you looking for a beast? And

1507
01:21:25.880 --> 01:21:28.560
I'm like, I only heard that there is something going

1508
01:21:28.659 --> 01:21:32.380
on here, sir. I, I, Oh boy. Howdy. He says,

1509
01:21:32.420 --> 01:21:34.640
there's a lot more than a little going on here.

1510
01:21:35.079 --> 01:21:38.659
And he starts telling me the story. He owned a

1511
01:21:38.739 --> 01:21:42.220
ranch or, you know, a farm out there. And he

1512
01:21:42.260 --> 01:21:46.350
was talking about shooting at this three toed Bigfoot. He says,

1513
01:21:46.739 --> 01:21:50.340
that song gun, it has three toes. And I saw

1514
01:21:50.399 --> 01:21:52.739
it looking at me and I shot at it and

1515
01:21:52.800 --> 01:21:56.680
want to kill my chickens. And he's telling me all

1516
01:21:56.760 --> 01:21:58.979
about shooting at this big foot. And I said, well,

1517
01:21:59.020 --> 01:22:02.060
what happened? He says, I hit that thing with a 30,

1518
01:22:02.060 --> 01:22:05.149
30 and it didn't budge. All it did was wince

1519
01:22:05.189 --> 01:22:08.250
a little and it ran. Yeah. And, and I said, well,

1520
01:22:08.329 --> 01:22:10.449
what did you do? He says, I got a bigger gun.

1521
01:22:10.470 --> 01:22:10.539
Wow.

1522
01:22:10.550 --> 01:22:12.470
Okay.

1523
01:22:12.750 --> 01:22:17.140
Well, yeah, I suppose that's the, The thing I guess

1524
01:22:17.180 --> 01:22:18.060
I would have done too.

1525
01:22:18.399 --> 01:22:18.640
Right.

1526
01:22:18.699 --> 01:22:21.840
You know? And so, and then people, you know, I

1527
01:22:21.880 --> 01:22:24.920
started hanging around there a little bit and I'm like, well,

1528
01:22:24.939 --> 01:22:26.699
and then the other lady says, yeah, I had one

1529
01:22:26.760 --> 01:22:28.779
reach right through my window and try to grab me

1530
01:22:29.819 --> 01:22:32.220
a big paw. She said a big, big, great, big

1531
01:22:32.300 --> 01:22:36.260
bear paw almost got me. And I'm like, really? And

1532
01:22:36.279 --> 01:22:38.140
she says, yeah, I was laying there in bed. Next

1533
01:22:38.159 --> 01:22:41.439
thing you know, I see this arm coming through my window. Wow.

1534
01:22:43.439 --> 01:22:48.380
Oh man, this is nuts. And I'm like, no way.

1535
01:22:48.479 --> 01:22:51.260
She's like, yeah, it really happened. If you go down,

1536
01:22:51.479 --> 01:22:54.340
down about a mile down, Joe Dean down there, she'll

1537
01:22:54.399 --> 01:22:58.020
tell you all about when she saw the youngins. And

1538
01:22:58.279 --> 01:23:01.140
so there's baby Bigfoot. And she's telling me about seeing

1539
01:23:01.159 --> 01:23:05.050
a part of family of Bigfoot. And yeah, one thing

1540
01:23:05.100 --> 01:23:08.510
led to another and, and, uh, you know, and the

1541
01:23:08.550 --> 01:23:11.050
movie had already been made, but they didn't want anything

1542
01:23:11.170 --> 01:23:13.470
really to do with the movie. They're like, well, that movie,

1543
01:23:13.510 --> 01:23:17.770
you know, was so long ago. And, But they were

1544
01:23:17.829 --> 01:23:19.989
telling me it was 10 times worse than what the

1545
01:23:20.029 --> 01:23:23.609
movie even portrayed, how they're being, you know, how this

1546
01:23:23.630 --> 01:23:28.569
thing was running around. And, you know, and the police,

1547
01:23:28.729 --> 01:23:31.229
you know, they even had, you know, they were even

1548
01:23:31.289 --> 01:23:34.109
talking about it. One of the cops saw one of

1549
01:23:34.149 --> 01:23:38.390
the Bigfoot looking through a trailer house window. And he

1550
01:23:38.430 --> 01:23:40.390
happened to be driving down the road and he saw

1551
01:23:40.449 --> 01:23:43.840
it looking through this lady's window. So he stopped and

1552
01:23:43.850 --> 01:23:45.939
hit the siren and it took off running.

1553
01:23:48.470 --> 01:23:51.210
Man, this is incredible. It's absolutely incredible, the stuff you

1554
01:23:51.229 --> 01:23:53.750
were able to be involved with. That's so cool, Joel.

1555
01:23:55.069 --> 01:24:00.840
Wow. I'm blown away. I am absolutely blown away by

1556
01:24:00.859 --> 01:24:05.600
the journeys that you've had. Very, very cool.

1557
01:24:06.159 --> 01:24:11.039
Where can my listeners check out your book that we

1558
01:24:11.079 --> 01:24:11.920
were just talking about?

1559
01:24:12.380 --> 01:24:15.659
Yeah. You know, a company called Foundations Publishing is going

1560
01:24:15.689 --> 01:24:18.529
to be releasing it next month. So if you want

1561
01:24:18.590 --> 01:24:21.649
the book, I have an email set up called joelsturgisbooks

1562
01:24:21.810 --> 01:24:26.590
at gmail.com. And anyone that pre-orders one, I will sign it.

1563
01:24:26.590 --> 01:24:28.289
You know, when you want to buy it, I'll let

1564
01:24:28.310 --> 01:24:29.840
you know when it's up for sale and make sure

1565
01:24:29.850 --> 01:24:32.479
you get one, but I'll also sign the thing for you.

1566
01:24:32.880 --> 01:24:35.260
And that way you get it. And Jeremiah, just as

1567
01:24:35.319 --> 01:24:37.600
a token of your gratitude, I'll be shipping you one

1568
01:24:37.640 --> 01:24:39.439
for free when it does come out. I just want

1569
01:24:39.460 --> 01:24:41.199
to thank you so much for having me on. I

1570
01:24:41.229 --> 01:24:44.029
really appreciate that. But anybody that wants a copy of

1571
01:24:44.109 --> 01:24:46.449
any of my books, just let me know. Foundations is

1572
01:24:46.489 --> 01:24:49.010
doing it. And I have it all set up for pre-orders.

1573
01:24:50.010 --> 01:24:53.029
And I love it. You know, if it helps even

1574
01:24:53.130 --> 01:24:56.090
one guy or girl or someone interested in going out

1575
01:24:56.149 --> 01:25:00.279
there and enjoying themselves, I've done my job. You know,

1576
01:25:00.300 --> 01:25:06.229
because I remember... starting out and not knowing what to do. Okay.

1577
01:25:06.270 --> 01:25:08.329
Now I have this interest. What do I do now?

1578
01:25:08.710 --> 01:25:12.479
How do I actually start investigating? It's one thing to

1579
01:25:12.520 --> 01:25:16.680
collect stories, but it's a whole nother thing to start investigating, you.

1580
01:25:16.619 --> 01:25:21.640
Know, totally different worlds. I've found that out the last

1581
01:25:21.680 --> 01:25:23.960
few years. It's a total different world.

1582
01:25:24.159 --> 01:25:24.359
Yep.

1583
01:25:24.739 --> 01:25:25.359
You're right, man.

1584
01:25:26.399 --> 01:25:28.829
You know? And so, yeah. And it can be daunting,

1585
01:25:28.850 --> 01:25:31.210
especially when you're first starting out, you try and get your,

1586
01:25:31.720 --> 01:25:33.810
figure out the right and wrong way to do it.

1587
01:25:34.640 --> 01:25:37.300
And it, you know, there's really no hard and fast

1588
01:25:37.380 --> 01:25:39.899
right or wrong way, but there are definitely ways to

1589
01:25:40.020 --> 01:25:43.510
be taken more seriously than others. You know, like your

1590
01:25:43.569 --> 01:25:47.109
evidence collection is so important. You know, if you come

1591
01:25:47.170 --> 01:25:50.689
across evidence, you know, the chain of evidence, how important

1592
01:25:50.729 --> 01:25:54.060
that is to show that chain of evidence and just

1593
01:25:54.489 --> 01:25:56.399
things like that, that a lot of people wouldn't think

1594
01:25:56.439 --> 01:25:59.260
of that are so very important. Wow.

1595
01:26:00.479 --> 01:26:04.270
You're absolutely right. Such a fascinating conversation.

1596
01:26:04.329 --> 01:26:07.470
Joel, thank you so much for coming on the show

1597
01:26:07.750 --> 01:26:13.020
and for just sharing a lifetime of really, really cool stuff.

1598
01:26:13.119 --> 01:26:15.800
Bigfoot and all other sorts of stuff too.

1599
01:26:16.079 --> 01:26:18.840
It's been a wild ride. We'll have to keep in touch.

1600
01:26:18.859 --> 01:26:19.640
Yes, absolutely.

1601
01:26:19.680 --> 01:26:22.239
I'd love that. If you ever need me to come

1602
01:26:22.279 --> 01:26:24.550
back on the show, I'd love to. Definitely. I have

1603
01:26:24.649 --> 01:26:27.949
so many more tales of things I've run into and

1604
01:26:28.050 --> 01:26:31.800
I've done. You know, like running the Chupacabra or doing

1605
01:26:31.840 --> 01:26:33.760
this or doing that. I mean, you know, I've had

1606
01:26:33.779 --> 01:26:37.439
this opportunity. It's been, I've been really blessed. I mean,

1607
01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:41.840
oddly enough, it's almost like I've fallen into all these

1608
01:26:41.899 --> 01:26:43.819
situations where I'm trying.

1609
01:26:43.850 --> 01:26:45.369
Incredible.

1610
01:26:45.430 --> 01:26:46.869
You know, where I knew a guy that knew a

1611
01:26:46.890 --> 01:26:49.409
guy or, you know, I heard a rumor and I

1612
01:26:49.449 --> 01:26:52.989
picked up the phone or, you know, and like I said,

1613
01:26:53.350 --> 01:26:55.399
I'm far more blessed than I have a right to be.

1614
01:26:56.819 --> 01:26:59.449
A hundred percent. I totally get that. Well, we will

1615
01:26:59.470 --> 01:27:01.890
definitely keep in touch, Joel. And thank you so much

1616
01:27:01.949 --> 01:27:03.210
for coming on the show.

1617
01:27:03.869 --> 01:27:05.810
Thank you, Jeremiah. It's been a real honor.

1618
01:27:05.909 --> 01:27:08.270
A special thanks to Joel Sturgis for coming on the

1619
01:27:08.289 --> 01:27:10.949
show today. And if you've had a Bigfoot encounter of

1620
01:27:10.989 --> 01:27:12.890
your own, I would love to hear from you. You

1621
01:27:12.909 --> 01:27:17.430
can send me an email with your encounter. at bigfootsociety

1622
01:27:17.510 --> 01:27:21.170
at gmail.com. I've come out with a free report about

1623
01:27:21.210 --> 01:27:26.560
the top 10 Bigfoot hotspots. You can go over to bit.ly

1624
01:27:26.640 --> 01:27:31.659
forward slash BFS report. I'm Jeremiah Byron. Thanks for listening

1625
01:27:31.699 --> 01:27:33.760
to Bigfoot Society, and I'll see you in the woods.