"The Intersection of Myth and Metaphysics: Bigfoot as a Window to the Unknown"

0:00 Either you're listening to the Big Fort Society podcast and I'm Jeremiah Bron. Every week I talk to individuals who have experienced Sasquatch in some way or another, so you won't want to miss an episode. Make sure you're subscribed on the platform that you're listening to, and share this episode where a friend does not cost a thing, and it helps the show continue to grow. If you'd like to hear Bigfoot Society episodes early in ad free, you can do so by becoming a Patreon supporter or a YouTube channel member. Links to those are in the show notes in Bigfoot Society. I've taken far too much of your time so far, so let's get on with the show. Morning. You're listening to an episode of Bigfoot Society recorded more than three years ago. Interviewing skills in audio quality have improved since then. Please don't judge the podcast on this one episode. Thanks for coming back to another episode of the Bigfoot Society Podcasts. Have got Josh with me tonight, and I'm going to go ahead and have Josh introduce himself acquaintances on Instagram, but I love you to go ahead and introduce who you are and I can tell that you've got a North American Bigfoot Center shirt on. So so obviously you're into the squash, so go ahead and let the listeners know all about that too. Sure. Yeah.

1:26 So my name's Josh. I'm from Georgia and I've been into Bigfoot since I was like eight years old. I found a library book in my private Christian school library that is on Bigfoot and Locknest Monster, and I went, oh boy, Yeah. Nobody told me that this was an option for cool things that you could look into, and so I read it and I went, you know, there's this is amazing. Yeah. I was fiffy on the lock this Monster, but after seeing it had images screenshots of the Patterson Gimlin film, and it just awakened this interest in me. And when I was sixteen, I found the bfro dot net site. This is back in the ninth so I just poured powered through hundreds of hours of reading every single account I could get my hands on that database and others, and it just amazed me how consistent of a profile of behavior and morphology and everything that all these people were reporting. And I started asking people that I respected, so what's up a big business real? And I had so many people just dismissed the idea out of hand, But after reading literally hundreds of hours of re quarters, I went, I just I don't agree. Where there's smoke, there's fire, and I just I don't have a view of humanity that allows

3:00 me to imagine all of these people going through the time and effort to make up incredibly consistent reports just to be lying. And so I think that's for me. That's one of the most fascinating things about bigfoot I've ever seen one. I've been to a couple of places that are here in the Southeast where I've I'm looking for them, and I've found a number of stick structures actually, and we can talk. For me, the most engaging thing about it is that I just love thinking about it from the perspective of the psychology behind it. Why is it that is a society categor I with the way that we do. It's really interesting. When did you get into bigfoot? It's two different things, and I think you'll find one of them really interesting because you mentioned that you went to a you said small private Christian school. Started out probably I was like around maybe eight or nine, and I was watching in Search of with amoy with my dad. So that was you see the film and you're like, whoa, everyone stopped? Did you see this?

4:14 Did you know about this? And it was yeah, okay, whatever, blah blah blah. And then so that kind of died out. And then so I grew up in New England and so I was like around all this crazy stuff, but I wasn't into cryptos cryptosiology stuff at that time, so I missed out all a lot. But then so I was at a so fast forward, I'm in central I went out right, so I am So I'm at a small religious school and where it's like there's a chapel service every Wednesday. Yeah for me, I don't know how the I need to get the guy on the podcast. So this guy comes in who's really cool dude.

5:01 I can't think of his name right now, but he is a he's a Christian in a dinosaurs but also into cryptozoology. And he goes off about so you're like barely awake as a college like sophomore or whatever. In the background, you're like, just get me out of here. I want to get through this. And like all of a sudden, this guy is talking about and I went to Papa New Guinea and here's the pterodactyls flying around with bioluminescence, and everyone's huh really, and then he's like, Papua New Guinea, that's news. Yes, yes, but that's really cool because it can tie into like cryptids like the Van Meter visitor in Iowa where it's like like a pterodactyl type creature where it was like a light that shot out of its head. I don't know if you heard about that one, but that's a really fun one in Iowa anyways, So I was that was for me, was like a like that that was fifteen years ago, so it's been a while. And then when I get to the point where I'm like, you're, oh, yeah, I could totally. It's got more and more into it and finding bigfoot stuff like that, and then I was like, oh, I should totally do a podcast. And then I was like, I've got all this extra time now, and I actually had wanted I started last year, so I had the stuff already and then I had all this extra free time, so I was just like, let's go for it. Because of COVID, also they would record the Chapel services. This one Chapel recording

6:41 got magically erased from existence and that in the front office. Yeah, it's like when he got off the stage, one of the the people came up, he's like, oh that was nice, thank you, okay to class, and I was like, oh, man, like that was actually I really enjoyed it. But so I've had a weird like crypted journey and yeah, yeah, I like the having this podcast because I like to My goal is to get the story behind people that are in the crypted community that don't really you don't really get to see that the story of the person, and you get to also hear about cryptids as well. But it's i'd say it like an NPR, this American life in the crypto zoology community. It's weird, but I enjoy it and it makes it for a lot of love.

7:40 So yeah, I love that, and I totally agree. There's so many people out there that have incredibly worthwhile stories to hear. Their stories are worth hearing whether or not they achieve some sort of commercial thing, right. That's we value people whether or not they have a PhD or they've got a million subscribers. That mean human beings are human beings, whether they've done something to titilate the world or not, and their stories and their opinions matter. Now, don't get me wrong. I've met a I ran into a guy who told me that he got abducted by the police and tortured in the basement, and the whole time I was talking to him and I was like, I really do believe you've got some trauma and some mental health problems. I'm not the person that believes everything that they hear. But at the same time, I've had experiences with I've had supernatural experiences. I've had prophetic experiences when I was eighteen and I was a good little Presbyterian kid who was at that's interesting Presbyterian church. But like prophetic experiences, you said, that's very interesting, and again this is and I'll go into that a little bit okay to me.

9:01 That's one of the reasons why I take Bigfoot and other supernatural paranormal experiences that people have seriously, and I'm open minded to it because in reality, with you, people talk about in my community, they talk about being a Bible believing Christian right, and if the Bible, what you believe in is that we are in an interdimensional, multi millennial intergalactic war and that and that demonic angelic beings have created hybrid entities with humans on Earth. That's what you believe, At least to me, that's the only responsible reading of that Genesis passage. And they're pop I was going to say, you are alluding to Genesis six eight, correct, I am, yeah. And so I've actually gone in there, and I've studied the Hebrew and I actually wrote a paper about the continued lineage on a keeing in the and I handed it into my professor and he read it and he went, yeah, this is really good.

10:09 I agree, this is great stuff. It never really occurred to me to read all of those passages about Goliath all of the other giants as really a pastoral message to the people, saying God is trying to reinforce to them. Look, I'm aware of what you're up against, and I'm with you. You are not alone in this cosmic, supernatural fight. And so if you try to diminish the supernaturalness of the passage in order to try to tame what the Bible is saying, you are really trying to steal the thunder from the force of the passage. And you're trying to water down this message of God being with and for his people. So I'm not trying to do God any favors and tell him it is not as weird as he tells me.

11:07 It is. To me, the most interesting part of that passage is that when it talks about the sons of God mating with the daughters of Man, that phrase sons of God has been at Elohim in the Key group. There is no other place anywhere in the Old Testament where that does not obviously and explicitly mean the angels of the heavenly Realm. So people who try to smudge that and say the Bible doesn't really talk about angelic hybridization, I think it's irresponsible metaphysic right there, that that is I like it. That's some crazy stuff. So let's break it down. For Let's say you have a person that's listening to this and they're like, holy mackerel, what is he talking about. I don't even know what Genesis is and he's talking about six and the eight and the annex and what's going on? So how would you take something like that? And what does that tie into cryptos or cryptozoology? What do you what are you talking about? There. So for me one of the reasons why I took that passage really seriously and I looked into this whole hybridization lineage because it's not a singular phenomenon. It's talking about a range of time where this general phenomenon was occurring. And I find it very interesting that everything from the Epic of Gilgamesh through pretty much every other major world religion that's

12:41 got the creation muthos, that mythos that tie that far back will incorporate things like the flood and human hybrid pretty much all them. Wow, like Humbaba and the Epic of Gilgamesh and Ki and Kaidu is this hairy man that Gilgamesh runs around with. Obviously, all of these major world religions are pointing backwards to a similar set of phenomenon. I believe that Jesus is real and the Bible's worth trusting, and so I'm gonna put my piton in the Bible.

13:22 But that doesn't mean that Robbie Zacharias is a Christian who I really like. He says, if you can make fun of any major world religion, you've missed the vote, because they've got something that they got really right. And in many ways probably better than Christianity got right historically. So having a disrespectful attitude towards other sets of creation myths and other world religions is in myopic and again going to do your religion and do your God a favor that your God doesn't need. Right, if you can't interact respectfully with the history of all these other things, you waste. So that on a cheme, are the descendants of a specific set of interactions between these angels and humans in the region around basically the Fertile Crescent around like Israel, Iran, Iraq, around east and at least right, and they continue to show up throughout. And these are huge guys that are eight nine feet tall. Oh wow. At first I looked at all that and I went, Bigfoot's huge, right, Maybe it is a descendant of these guys. But the more I looked into it, the more I realized, I really don't think that's what they're talking about.

14:52 And so I backed up and went, how does how can these guys fit into a pair of time of humanity? We'll be back with more Bigfoot society after these words from our sponsors that the Bible talks about and for me. Really, you have to put that down and step back for a bit and look at just the scientific research that's been going on, especially for the last two decades, where we've been able to extract all this DNA from and bones from the Iberian Peninsula around Spain and everything where we've got Homo Heidelbergensis and Neanderthalensis DNA, and we've shown hybridization events between humans and these other hominids.

15:43 And I actually to Jeff Meldrum and chatted with him online a little bit about this. Okay, it was great. He very He's a very conservative guy. He's exactly very religious. YEP. I would love to get a conversation with him about the intersection of his religion and his views of Oh man, yeah, that would be great one that. Yeah, you got to get him on and talk to him about that. So a question for you, So, do you have your own podcast then or like you alluded to it? Okay, no, right now I'm doing a D and D podcast that I don't have anything that's amazing. I love it. But so the way I'm looking at it is I'm like going up by tears. So I have like my tier a guest and then eventually I'll get up to tier B and tier C and Tier D, and so I'm I don't know. I feel like I almost have to earn the right to be like, hey, doctor Meldrum, come on my podcast like that. I can't just jump to that.

16:52 It's some weird thing I have. So I'm just I'm working to it. You know you have not because he asked that true act. Really, yeah, it's probably shrewd to have some good episodes behind it, exactly. But anyways, stepping aside this all this crazy nepheline stuff and looking at the hard science behind what it means to be in the genus Homo, We've got at this point a dozen different members of the genus Homo that are preferentially bipedal, meaning whether or not they can be on their knuckles for moving around, clearly preferred to be on two feet. And Jeff again, Jeff melt and allowed us comes back to him. He's written some incredible papers, and I've spent quite a few hours digging and chipping and clawing my way through the technical terminology of his papers and everything. But at the end of the day, he's Hey, and a lot of others have done some incredible work to show the morphological transition and the feet, the legs, the hips, the whole body between what it means to be a chimpanzee and what it means to be us. We've got used metatarsal in the middle of our foot that gives us an arch And so when you look at all this science, clearly what it

18:25 means to be human is not just a cut and dry matter, and I think that's really threatening for a lot of Christians. I think a lot of Christians look at this whole Sasquatch issue and they are dragging in decades century old debate of the missing link, right, and so they use this kind of religious dogmatic initial reaction to try to protect their beliefs and protect their world, and they push it away. But I really don't think you need to. I think that what it means to be human is still a very sacred and very spiritual thing. And I've got friends who claim to have done mind speak with big Puts. Right. Wow, Yeah, that they're wrong. That's a totally that's a cold conversation itself, like mine speak with with sad squatch.

19:26 That's yeah, that's very interesting. That's not in Georgia. Those friends are the friend that I have who is I'll leave her name out of it just because that's fine. Illicitly asked her if that's okay, Yeah, she's she. And this is what's interesting is a lot of what she says also synks up with what Melbourn Ketcham says about how these things are spiritual. They're not animals. They've got language, they've got a religious they've got a spiritual worldview, not a religious but a spiritual worldview. And she, my friend, talks about how they have a very different relationship with the material world in us, that they're kind of after life experience is very different than ours.

20:22 That's very interesting to think about. I've never contemplated that before. That would be a totally new conversation there, like their after life. Let's hover here for a minute, right, So what do you think about orbs, these light ors, these light views. Okay, so this is the here's a weird thing. You definitely start to see similarities in the stories, and you can almost guess there's going to be an ORB talked about coming up. And it's every time, and I've said this in other episodes. One of my favorite stories, so far is the Rick Frellis episode I've had where he's talking about being in Backbone State Park in northeast Iowa, and I love this because he's they're in the park and they're looking ahead and they see a few orbs and they're like, those orbs are fantastic. And then they hear something behind them and there's a squatch in the middle of the trail almost controlling the orbs, which totally blew my mind because I've never heard a story like that, and that's one of the most favorite stories I've had that's come out of this podcast so far. But yeah, definitely that comes up all the time, the whole orb there's a connection there for real and her belief and her what she's conveyed to me is that these are disembodied spirits of previously these bigfoots.

21:53 And what's interesting is that's what a lot that's what at least a lot. I don't know about majority because I'm not an expert on Native American folklore regarding but I've heard it a lot, Like many times, is that the mythos, the worldview of a lot of First Nations peoples are that these orbs are in fact entities that have passed on that are that were previously these guardian spirits. But the other interesting thing that she brought up is that there are there's a kind of a spectrum of participation that these people have in the supernatural world that is available to them by birthright. And her perspective that she says that she's received directly my mind speak and everything. And keep in mind, the reason why I'm not sure that she's wrong is because when I met her, she showed me a binder, this thick of pictures of sasquatch on her property, and I started flipping through them, and I went, this is like you pile, you can see the sasquatch. Or these aren't blob squatches.

23:15 These are like really clear. Some of them are like holy crap. Either this woman dedicated a tremendous amount of time and effort to putting her husband in a mask in the woods and taking pictures or this. I've gone with her and I've spent time around her, and I have not seen any sign of mental illness orfulness. She's an incredible, kind and wholesome and honest person. And so that's what's so wild is it for me? Again? I've got adds. I apologize I'm jumping through topics, but I've had prophetic experiences that I didn't not really see coming or asked for. And I have been in locations where people have done wika and have invoked a lot of spirits and gotten the place good and churned up, and have seen objects flying across the room.

24:22 I've seen physically affected by demonic entities. I've been in the presence of them, and this is not I feel weird enough. I could tell you with the certainty with which I'm either in the room with a gorilla or not, that I was in the room with demonic entities. So I believe you one hundred percent, because if you look at different things that happen in the New Testament, that stuff is real and you got to be aware of it, and mand you got to be careful messing arout with stuff because that stuff is real. People don't understand this isn't just movie stuff. This is real life, and it can affect you and your family like it's legit. Yeah.

25:07 The only difference between me and people pursue a much more New Age and or explicitly within half is this belief about the nature of the entities that they're interacting with. They and I have the same level of certainty that these entities exist. I don't believe that it's wise to bargain with them, and that they are purely benevolent, and I've seen evidence of that. When I was exercising a building with a friend two friends, when we got to the very end of the building and we had corralled everything out to the end, he got physically affected by this demon and suddenly all of his hearing was almost completely gone. He said it was like cotton swabs and mix it with wax and jammed it down his ear canals, and he was fully nauseated, and so he was double that was wild. Is when this happened. It wasn't weird to me. It wasn't scary to me. And that's not a sign of how I'm so cool or whatever. But in that moment, I also just very clearly felt the presence of God, and very clearly felt that God was letting this happen for a reason. And so all of very interesting experiences that I've had have only confirmed to me that the God that I believe in is

26:40 real and is near me and everything, and I've asked myself that question a few times. When I met this friend who lives a few hours away, also in the southeast, and I stayed with her. When I met her and I talked to her for a while and then I went to stay with her. When I to stay with her, she said, yeah, when I first met you, I like, I saw this gold aura around you. You've got to fear yeah, And I was like, wow, I can believe that without being egotistical or anything. I've bumped up against the supernatural a lot of times, and so part of me wonder is if that isn't part of why I haven't had more success in the Sasquatch area. It's just one of those weird Okay, Yeah, I can see how you're tying it together. A lot of people who say that they run into them and then suddenly they see them more and more. And the skeptic the synate would say, oh, sure, if you're gonna lie once, you're gonna lie a whole bunch of times. Me. That makes complete sense. If you once you've seen one, you've broken through the shell and there's the gig is up.

27:56 There's no problem with them letting you see them. More right, Okay, So I want to touch on something. So you think that once you see one, then your eyes are going to be It's like when you get a car and then you notice that car everywhere else, you think it's I'm talking about like, oh, look at all those Volvos. Kind that I own a Volvo now? Or do you think they're opening your eyes to themselves? I don't know, could go a different to a certain degree. I think that to a certain degree, if these things are capable of a certain level of supernatural connection, call it quantum connection to the world around us that we don't have, then it makes sense that once you have seen them once you are no longer in the category of human beings that need to be prevented from seeing them. And again, I'm probably just going to reference what my friend told me a million times in this interview, because she's got much more concrete and interesting opinions about this stuff than me. I say, opinion not condescending or demeaning. Exactly, this is what she's told me. Her statements have been that these things have rules that they generally abide by. Now there are plans of them that do not There are plans of them that are the

29:26 equivalent of evil or bad. They're the minority, which makes sense because you've got so many accounts of children and injured adults being returned to their families and being returned to the path that they wundered from by these things. And then you've got places amount Saint Helen's pre explosion. No Native American guide would take a white person up there. They would say, you're crazy. The Cannibal Harry Cannibal's look up there. We don't go up there. We'll be back with more Bigfoot society after these words from our sponsors. If these things are real, and I do believe that they're real, I'm utterly convinced, on the evidence of Jeff Meltrim alone, this whole metatarsal ridge thing, that there is a bipedal creature in North America that is leaving prince that clearly lack a mid tarsal arch that clearly exhibit mid tarsal flexi, meaning that that joint in our hand right here in the center that flexes and the foot is fused.

30:41 You can see the pressure ridge of sand that's being pushed up by the front half of the foot being in contact with the ground. When the back half of the foot lifts up and the foot pushes back, and you can see at pressure ridge in muddy footprints that have been petrified that are one and two hundred thousand years old in Africa from other hominids. This is pretty much ubiquitous across the footprints that we have of sasquatch. It's true of all of these extremely ancient footprints that we have that are petrified. Clearly, this is a scientifically verifiable morphological trait in a pre homo sapient hominid. So there's something out there making them, right, ei, there are something out there making it.

31:34 Yeah, it's not just a random bunch of dudes traveling around the US with fake feet. There's no way. Yeah. Yeah. And you've got so many people with first hand accounts direct mind speak who don't show any other sign of mental illness anywhere in their lives, don't show any other sign of lack of integrity or a lack of trustworthiness. These are people with PhDs, people who are professional law enforcement state level. So for me to dismiss all of that out of hand because it's weird, I really can't do that.

32:17 Because when I was eighteen, I showed up at a prophetic equipping conference at a church that I did some research on. I showed up at the difference and I pull out my pen and my notepad because I'm a Presian and what you're used to is being preached at for an hour at a time and downloading intellectual information about God. And so I show up and they say, Okay, put away your pen and pencil. There's no method here. Method is witchcraft and that's not what we're doing. This is just you talking to God. Let's all just get up and find somebody and talk to them and say, Hey, God, if you want to say anything to this person through me, go for it. I'm available. And that's a little more, a little more succinct than they said it, but that's the force of it.

33:07 So it's similar to like speaking in tongues with Pentecostal in a way. Yeah. So that's the other thing. Yeah, I up at this, and I'll make this really quick. I show up at the church. I'm standing in the back of the church, and at the end of the service, they say, okay, everybody stand up and hold hands. So all one hundred people in the church hold hands. Okay, at what point somebody says, Lord, if there's anybody who needs to pray in a tongue or prophesy or receiving these spiritual gift, let them whatever. And when they said that, I started feeling this something in the pit of my stomach. And they kept they were praying about like the President of the United States or something by the time this happened, but it started when they prayed about that, and suddenly I felt it was like when you take one of those hand pumps and you crank it and you can hear the water coming up. Gotcha that sympathetic that sound way of getting shorter and shorter. I could tell something was about to come out of my mouth, and I went, okay, I'm in church, Okay, all right, I'll let this out. And I just started boom wow, me speaking in this other language that I had tried to fake speaking in a tongue before, because I've heard other people say, oh yeah, I could pray in a tongue, and they went, you have a right. Yeah, that's the thing that's when people try to do it. Yeah, that's not preting to that's just making gibberis exactly I was

34:37 not repeating phonemes. I was making lots of different sounds, sounds that I had never made when I tried to fake it, and it was clearly flowing out of me at a speed that I was not responsible for. So I slapped my hands of a hand over my mouth, because again, I'm a good Presbyterian kid that doesn't leave them, still does anything wild, And over time I was able to ease that anxiety and lean into it. So that happens at one point, and then later a few years later, I go to this prophetic equipping conference. This guy walks up to me and we meet up. We say, okay, we'll be partners, and so he prays over me and he says a bunch of stuff that is very accurate and very relevant and very encouraging, and I go, whatever, every guy my ate.

35:30 Of course, he's telling me things about working with youth and stuff, blah bah blah blah. Really great attitude for showing up at a prophetic equipping coupage. Right, And then I look at him and I just boom the moment I look at him and I say, all right, lord, what do you want to tell me? I see this clear image of this kid who has been put in time out by his mom and she's forgotten. And then I clear see a student sitting in a desk at detention and he's looking up at the clock and I don't know what time it is on the clock. With the point is as he's looking at the clock, he knows he's been forgotten and left and no one is coming. And then I'm like, okay, anything else, Santa Barbara, California. I went, Lord, I've really put myself out, Santa Barbara, California, San O Barbara, California. I've gone out on a limb here. This is embarrassing, this is I'm vulnerable here. If you could do me a favor and not just allow mental salad to go flowing through my brain. I'm trying to do prophits here. And I immediately knew that I just needed to tell him what I heard. So I told him and when I said Santa Barbara, California, he literally stumbled backwards a little bit, and I saw the blood begin to

37:00 drain from his face. And I should point out to you this guy had a thick cowboy mustache, flatsher belt, buckle, wrangler jeans, cowboy boots. Everything about this man scream Texas. So if I'm getting a monk with any kind of human level connection, it's going to be San Antonio. Have nothing to do with anything about this man. So he stumbles backwards and I said, does that mean anything to you? He goes. I spent years in prison in Santa Barbara, California. I got to go it turns out and run okay, bye to And that happened five more times where I had that weekend in the space of the next seventy two hours where I stopped and I looked at a person and I said, Lord, what do you want me to tell him? And the craziest one is there's there was this cryptographic hash key on it where I looked at this girl and I said, all right, I see this stream with a current flowing in it, and there's like a path within the current. And I see this wave like from the ocean, like finding Nemo. Yeah, I'm not and I have no idea what any of this means. And I'm thinking, why am I thinking about a Disney film when I'm in the middle of trying to tell this woman what

38:32 I think God is telling me. So I tell her this and I say, I see the stream current path. I see a wave, and she cuts me off and says, like finding me. I see it away from the ocean, like finding Nemo. I'm like, yes, very much like finding Nemo. Stuff like that was happening all the Wow. The force of all and I don't need to get into all the rest of it, but the force of it is. I am utterly convinced that God is real, and for other reasons besides that I've seen other miraculous things. My point is that the phenomenon of mind speaking is in the Bible. I don't know what you would call prophetic words or prophetic utterances, if not mind speak, it's God's speaking. From a Christian metaphysics point of view. If you believe that God is doing this, and then you look everywhere else at all of the other miraculous events of the Old and New Testament, and you realize that none of them are really in just abject defiant and just way off and left field aberration from nature. They are in some way an object lesson which is not to say that they're not real or metaphorical. I think they really happen.

40:06 But all of the things that God is doing in all these other places are somehow metaphysically tied into the nature of reality, and he's trying to get your attention and tell you something real. I don't know why you would look at that and that at prophetic utterances and say, clearly, the only way that that's real is directly between God and man. Right, Because I've also heard a number of very reliable witnesses talk about astral projection, I think that astral projection is absolutely a real thing. Sindbad. On an interview with Pete Holmes on that You Made It Weird podcast was talked about with the young man.

40:47 Did you hear that episode? I haven't heard that. I know that podcast is pretty wild and crazy. Yeah, I have to check out that episode though, you should. He gets into it. He talks to his dad, who's a deacon in the Baptist Hey, dad is real, and his dad goes less real, You don't want to mess with it. It's real. Wow, that's with it. And he projected to his parents' house and saw particular package and saw them open the package and take a particular object out of it. And so he calls up his parents afterwards and says, are you guys sitting at the table. Did you just open a FedEx package? Did you just take this out of the package? And the dad goes, yeah, all of those things are actor. Why oh crap. You know.

41:30 So that was Pete Holmes or Sinbad that did that. That was oh wow, oh wow. Okay, yeah that after he did that a few times, some entity grabbed a hold of him and was holding on to him, and he freaked out and was terrifying, and he opened up a connection there exactly. Oh Lord, Jesus, get me out of this and I'll never get again. But what's wild is I have two other friends who I know personally, one of whom has astral projected a number of times and has had that experience with seeing shadowing these extra dimensional entities in the room with him.

42:15 That was terrifying. Oh wow, guy's got no mental health problems, he's not a liar, and of utter absolute integrity. He always plays a paladin in Yeah, that's awesome. And I have another friend who's found stick structures on his property and around the area I live along the Savannah River and I have both found stick structures around the Savannah River and me about his dad. Nobody taught him to do this nobody let him up. He just he could just astral project, just doing it. And he was doing it through his twenties and thirties and forties, and when he was a little bit older, he said that one time he just went a lot farther than he had ever gone before, and he said was terrifying because he suddenly realized, I'm not one hundred percent sure that if I go any further, I'll be able to find my way back. And so we never again. This guy was a Christian. This is a guy who's dabbling in witchcraft, Wicca or New Age he kind of methods or anything. I think it's just the fabric of reality and what it means to be a human being and to be tapped into the metaphysical world around us is a lot weirder than most modern American prisuma not

43:50 what it is. Yeah, it's because we're so distracted by the phone, the TV, whatever, We totally don't see any of that stuff going on. We don't even think to look up and notice. And yeah, myself, personally, I'm very careful about what I associate with, just because, as you said, like the sindbad he opened up that door and then he had to deal with the maybe things coming into his life, things coming home. But that's a personal thing for me. That's just something that I've decided for myself. But yeah, it's crazy, the stuff that's out there.

44:35 If you open your eyes, it's nuts. And so many people that I had heard talk about the mind speak aspect. Once they open that door, there's a very high likelihood that they're going to talk about Sasquatch as teachers, as reality and protectors. And my friend has had multiple instances where she has been protected. We'll be back with more Bigfoot society after these words from our sponsors, by the Sasquatch people that live either near her or portal in and everything. That's the other thing. So here's let me just pivot from her for a second. I was speaking a guy named Bob at a Bigfoot conference.

45:34 This man has been a sheriff both a guy named Bob at a big Foot conference. It's not Bob Gimlin it okay. But I talked to this guy for a long time, long enough to get a very good sense of him, very good sense of his character. Clearly, the man doesn't have screws loose or anything. And he was talking to me about how he and a number of other people had been doing these regular expeditions into an area where there was a lot of activity. But one of the guys walked into a portal because he was walking along and suddenly he's just gone. No one else in the he's this guy, and he's six to eight to ten feet away from the other people. It's not like he's obscured by brush. The brush was not eight ten feet high. There wasn't anything to obscure him. And he said, I couldn't see anybody else in the group either, and clearly I was in a different place. I was not seeing the same woods that I had been seeing. So I froze, I backed up in a straight line, and then everybody could see him again. Really, I don't know what that is other than some sort of portal, some sort of fold in time and space. And I can't tell you how many people have talked about this whole portal thing, right, the idea that sasquatch can portal and teleport

47:08 and whatever. As a Christian who believes in the supernatural, who believes in angel who believes that fill up. When he was walking to Macedonia, suddenly was in Macedonia, which was like on the other side of Asia minor or whatever. Exactly. There's just no way. You don't get dope, you don't get drowsy and suddenly wong by the idea that someone who is even very religiously conservative needs to have a problem with the supernatural aspect of bigfoot. I just that's one of the things. That's one of the birds under my saddle is, Guys, if you're going to believe God and angels and demons and everything, let's get weird man. Let's roll up. Wow, that's interesting.

48:06 That is very interesting. Let's saying yeah, so I can tell obviously you're very intellectual guy. So I had a question for you. Let's say, uh, what are the wether like the top five or top three bigfoot type books that you recommend. When let's say someone comes up to you like, hey, what do I read? I can tell you've read a lot. Yeah, that's a good question. I would say that. Jeff, this is a really short read Jeff Belder paper that he submitted to peer review and was published by the Smithsonian Institute on the Patterson Gimblin track way. It's a fantastic paper to read that went. He gears specifically to be a more accessible to non PhDs, because, like I said, I had to crack out, crack up in Wikipedia and look at the number of missions. But for the most part it was pretty readable, and it will give you a very clear, scientifically grounded argument for why and how people who are intellectually and scientifically rigorous believe that these are real creatures. Tom Powell's book was really great.

49:25 I loved it. I really loved his book. I'm trying to think I've read so many and I wasn't anticipating that question. Gosh, that is tough. Lauren Coleman's book was really good. I've read so many it's hard to keep all the titles straight. But for me, honestly, at the end of the day, a lot of these books are fantastic, and I am so that these authors have spent this time put this material together, the books. But for me, a lot of the reading material that I am so grateful that I spent literally at this point probably shamefully for thousands of hours reading is all the different databases, the BFRORO dot net database, Oregon Sasquatch, the gal that wrote Enoch and that's its own weird little rabbit trail of its own. But she's got a database. And I've read through the entire contents of about a handful of databases and try to really soak up as much direct, the highest volume, most direct narrative experience of the common person.

50:49 What does it mean for your average person to bump into a sasquatch? Because let's say most of the people are hearing or they're hearing, they're hearing the howel or screech. Most people aren't seeing it. But to me, he said Piske National Forest recently, and I asked three different people, have you seen any sasquatch around here? All three of them told me I haven't seen one, but I've seen evidence of them. One guy who was the owner of the property told me of a creek on a ridge behind the place where we were staying, where he regularly finds footprints, This man in the sand.

51:35 And then the young man who his family had moved into one of this guy's. This guy owns a handful of properties along the valley. This guy, this kid was telling me about how he moved in and he was alone at the house. The power goes out, which is coincidental but he heard this scream coming from up the valley, and he said, the first thing that my brain told me was, you have never heard this before. This is nothing on anything you've ever heard before. And it was so powerful and loud. And what's wild is after that he was sitting in the room and he just suddenly his brain told him, whatever, do not turn your head, do not look at the window. Do not look. So I think that one of these things walked up to the building and looked in because they had only been in there for a couple of days, and it was basically going, Okay, who just moved into my valley? You are? And again that's that's the tale was oldest time. There's so many people that report this behavior of them a little brazen when there's a window between the two of you and they walk up to the edge of it and stare at you for a moment and then walk away. Anyway, So the number of the volume for me of accounts that I've read outweighs even these books that I've read.

53:06 But again, I would definitely recommend Tom Powell's book. He's somebody who, like me, is very steeped in the scientific For him, he's steeped in the scientific tradition, right, whereas I would say that I'm probably more steeped in the religious tradition. But both of us have this community around us telling us, oh, you just you can't affect yourself respect others. Yeah, exactly, which there's just some oppositional, defiant part of me. By Tom Be goes seriously follow up question to the book question, not that I have actually spent the man hours to try to look into this, but maybe you have because of what we've talked about so far. Have you ever found any book or things where it's they tie together the Bigfoot or cryptids to the religious stuff that we've been talking about, Any of any things like that exist out there in the print world that you've stumbled upon, or maybe it's something that needs to be created, you know, I did. I found a gentleman who wrote a book that is very difficult to get your hands on because it's out of print, where he tried to go through the Bible and basically say, places where they're talking about weird things having to do with giants, they're

54:37 really talking about Bigfoot. Well, I found his argument to be totally compelling. Like I said, I've studied the Nephelene thing. I've gone to the original text and looked at the Hebrew and trying to figure out what they're talking about. And from what I can understand, they're talking about descendants of angels. For us, well, what we're talking about with Bigfoot is from what I can tell, the North American Bigfoot as opposed to the hominids in South Africa that I forgot the guy's name, but he's an elephant and lion researcher. He's seen them a handful of times, and he has other people in his really personal circle and contact who have seen them. Yeah, so that's the crazy thing. There's hominids in South Africa. There's hominids Indonesia, there's hominids in the Southeastern Nation Peninsula. There's so many accounts of gis coming back from Vietnam. Rocket. Yeah, the rocket read one account of a helicopter pilot talked about coming over a ridge and there's just this six foot tall ape man in the top of the truth in full view, clearly doing the chimp thing of a physical display where it's just tree back and forth trying to scare off a helicopter. And then you've got them all up and down Eurasia.

56:05 And again what's wild is really there is this distinct subspecies in Eurasia that is not sasquatch in North America or the I think the same thing or a similar thing in North America is what's down in South Africa. Because in South Africa those things get up to above seven feet tall. And we're talking about the same genetic set of the same sort of genes that allowed a descendant of apes to bulk up to a size that is able to cope with the swing in temperature. And for me, that's one of the most mind blowing things that people told Pove the idea of bigfoot, and you go, do you know what a dire beaver is? It's a beaver the size of a bulk swaggon.

57:01 People forget that stuff used to be super big. I don't know why people. Yeah, yeah, every every and when I say every, every species of mammal has a branch of its zoological treaty that optimized to overcome seriously frigid conditions. And so they got big because that's the only thing nature can do, right. So the bigger you are, it shifts the ratio as you get bigger, your surface area to volume ratio shifts, and suddenly you've got way more volume than surface area, which means you're not losing as much of your general metabolic work that you've done to warm up your body out your skin, and so you're able to regulate your body temperature. That's why everything gets huge when the poles shift, and the ia is you've got to get big or die. Of course, they're scientifically speaking in order to say there's no such thing as a hominid that weighs eight hundred pounds, and that's an absurd idea. That's a foolish statement to me. It's a scientifically empirically stupid thing to say. The only question is are they still around? Right?

58:25 And it boggles my mind that people support about the idea that they're not so around. And again I've heard and this is where you get into this one eats the road right, people say, okay, you take this serious secret, where's the body? And then what do you believe in some sort of government conspiracy? And again that's one of those statements that I'm not trying to be ugly to people who have said that to other people, but there's a certain amount of intellectual bullying, a certain amount of condescension and statement. But we are absolutely aware of a number of different, concerted, broad attempts that the United States Government has made to suppress certain bits of information. So I don't understand why people find it to be laughable when you propose that within the forget about hydra it's just a seizing call. The United States bureaucratic system across all of these different government branches is buck wild, right. You've got different organizations stepping on each other's toes, grabbing for jurisdiction, other people pushing off responsibility onto others. From what I can tell, it doesn't take a top down, unilateral, ubiquitous effort to pull off this Bigfoot conspiracy. All you

59:58 need is what the Bigfoot community already gives the United States government, which is a set of people generating questionable material so that you can't just laugh it off if anything real ever does show up, and then you just send people to scoop up the bodies, and you just get a little old Jewish couple watched the Bigfoot get struck and mortally wounded by a semi truck, and they gave their full report. They walked over to the thing. They looked at it, they saw its face, it's hands, its feet, It wasn't a bear. They knew what they were looking at, and they went, this is it, this is it, and it's finally going to come out.

1:00:45 So they ran home and they watched the news and that's crazy, not locally, not nationally, and they said that the people that showed up that kind of took over were very much just squashing, not surprising. Yeah, that sort of event. That's the level of conspiracy that we're talking about. It's not necessarily full on men in black UFO stuff. It's just anybody in any department who has a big foot body on their hands knows that this is going to be a nightmare for them if this gets big or it goes any farther.

1:01:30 That's the message that's been broadcast and you can't deny that right nobody, whether they believe in the phenomenon or not, if you're just responsible and you've read into it and looked into it. Clearly, that is a ubiquitous psychological pressure on people who work for the government is that they don't want to deal with it. And so I think that's why the issue has stayed quiet, honest. That's yeah, that's a very interesting take on it. I agree with that. Believe it or not, we have gotten crazy through the time. This has been an amazing episode. I love talking to you. What is it that real cool? What is it that you do? I've been trying to figure out what it is. I'm a software engineer, Okay, I was gonna guess. I was like, this has got to be a computer guy because I'm a software engineer too, and I'm like, I'm just getting a real software analytic dude guy, and this is Yeah, So that's awesome. I love it, very cool, very cool. I get you asked what books you read? Books? Yeah? Anything. Can people catch up with you in any ways if they're interested in content you're creating or anything like that, go ahead, yeah, anything. If you look me up, I'm j Sewitch J s U I c h pretty much everywhere, Facebook and whatever. And if you want to see me play D and D with

1:03:01 some other fellow philosophy college buddies, you can the Starfall Collective. Excuse me, We're on Twitch and YouTube. Oh cool, Reddit? Okay, so Starfall Collective. Jeremiah, thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate a lot. You got it here at Bigfoot Society, art goal is to provide a platform for those that have encountered Bigfoot to share their encounter and a safe and respected environment. But we need to hear your story. If you've experienced something that you just can't explain, please send me an email at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. Then we can start the conversation. And I know a lot of you have not shared your encounter at all. It's been twenty years and it's time that you get this off your chest and then you can get some well deserved for rest, because I know you haven't been sleeping. I understand what you're going through, and I appreciate every one of you listening