An Ape Creature Ripped The Door Off My Well House And Bigger Creatures Were On The Way!

0:05 And through the night vision, I see a dark silhouette of what looks like an ape on all fours come up, and it reaches up and grabs the door on the well house and proceeds to pull the door off. And I see the little ape looking thing come back, and then there's a second one with it. Then all of a sudden, this huge dark mass follows them, and that well house is about eight feet tall and whatever was taller, and I am certain it's probably the same one that I saw across the road in two thousand and nine. Before we get started with this show, consider this your warning. Albeit small town Monsters, monster Fest and beautiful can't Ohio.

1:04 This Saturday, June third, do not miss it. It's going to be a once in a lifetime adventure. You'll be able to see Bigfoot Society live ten thirty am Central Standard Time. Do not miss that. I'll be interviewing Martin Grove, the Amazing dog Man slash Bigfoot Researcher Land between the Lakes, Kentucky. You're gonna love it. And please, if you're there, track me down and say hi. And if you've got a big Foot story, I want to hear it, or we'll get something set up for later again. I want to see you at Monsterfest. Go to small Town Monsters dot com to get your tickets as quick as you can and everything else you need. All right, let's get into the show. But before we do, can't Ohio is an Eastern Standard time, not Central, which is Iowa time. So ten thirty East during Standard time e st don't miss it because I just messed up. I'll see you there ten thirty am Eastern Standard time.

2:08 Beautiful, can't Ohio. Let's go. Thanks for coming back for another episode. We've got Jim Whitehead from the Mid America Bigfoot Research Center with US tonights. And how's it going today? Jim, Yeah, it's going all right, awesome. And you're down there in the great state of Oklahoma, right, yes, I am. Oh, that's great. We were talking earlier and you'd mentioned that your main research area is in the western part of the state of Oklahoma. And I think it's about time that I chat with someone about the western part of Oklahoma, because I've talked a lot about southeastern as you can imagine, that's everyone kind of focuses in on that. But Jim, tell me, what has the western part of the state got going on with bigfoot research that people might not realize. Number one, I would say probably the fact that there's actually bigfoot out there. Everybody tends to hone in on the eastern part of the state because it's more wooded, But the thing is, the western half of the state's actually far less populated. There's a history of sightings basically west of the thirty five corridor in the state, going back for quite a ways. In fact, some of the earliest sightings in the state actually happened on that end, but people are none the wiser

3:42 about it. That's very interesting. Is that anything you'd be able to share with us tonight as we're talking. Sure. Actually, I've been working on putting together a chronology for pre nineteen fifty eight sightings in Oklahoma as of late, and I can pull this up and I can share a few of these old sightings with you. Great just a second here, Okay, one of the oldest sightings in the state actually came from the Dragoon expeditions with the Major Henry Leavenworth. And okay, it really wasn't a sighting. It was more of an encounter with evidence. But basically these guys were out and what would have been far western Oklahoma, and they were talking about what they were calling prairie grizzlies and how they were weird. And this would have been about eighteen thirty five, but they were describing the prairie grizzlies is hunting in packs, making nests and ambushing beer and breaking their necks and stuff we would really attribute with Bigfoot today. And they reported finding giant bear tracks that were in somewhere in the realm of eighteen seventeen inches in length, and it's not very hard

5:15 to stretch that into that being Bigfoot. Yes, it was part of the basically, it was another part of the core of discovery expedition at Lewis and Clark were on. They had four of those expeditions, but then they also had dragoon expeditions which were oversaw more by the military men, but it was still part of the same program. Is that the only historical event of Bigfoot pre nineteen fifty eight or there others as well? Oh, there's plenty more. Perfect example, Rachel Plumber, who was the sister of Kuana Parker.

5:55 I believe she was actually captured by comanches down in Texas and they took her into the mountains in south west Oklahoma, the Witchita Mountains today, which used to be called the the Sierra Jamon Mountains by the Spanish fur trappers. And by the way, the Spanish fur trappers they actually talked about things in the mountains they called the lobo zones basically werewolves, but the Rachel plumber and this would have been about eighteen thirty six. Just a year later she eventually escaped and came back to a civilization, so to speak. And what she had to say was she basically gave this really detailed account of everything that she saw and heard from the Comanche and in the mountains they told her about a hairy, giant wild man that was very terrifying, could use small trees as clubs, and she was she said she didn't see it, but she said the Commanche tribe that she was with that particular man said that they had encountered them in the mountains several times. And this would have been near modern day Lawton.

7:20 Wow, that is intense. How can are these accounts you can find in normal history books or is there a certain book that you've found use in or I've found them all across the history books, historical narratives where they would go out and interview people. There was a there's a great program with the University of Oklahoma where it's called the oaklaom Indian Pioneer Papers, and they would actually go out and interview these people right around nineteen hundred nineteen ten, and they were interviewing all these people that were pushing one hundred years old old in listening to their stories in there are some interesting stories in those papers. There are there's stories from the Arboco Mountains in central Oklahoma. There was one woman that grew up near Davis named Amanda Kimball. She was an African American woman, and she was talking about how the bears would get into the corn at night. And she said, you'd see the bears walk out there and they would gather up bundles of corn under each arm. I should say, not pause, not eat, just stood there and eat the corn with their mouth arms. And then they would walk back out of the field and they would step over the fence like a man and they would walk on two legs.

8:52 Oh, my goodness. And these stories are just hidden in this folklore project of the university. And you have been smart enough to find these accounts. If one is really willing to start poking into the history of it, there is a lot of stuff out there. Jim, how long have you been in the subject of Bigfoot? For I officially have been researching since two thousand and six and joined the MABRC in two thousand and eight. I believe it was the area I grew up in. We had a local legend about a monster, and I knew plenty of people that had seen it when I was a boy, so there was always that underlying interest. I love local legends.

9:48 Regional Bigfoot stories are some of my favorite. Did it have a name? Oh yeah, everybody out there called it. It had several names over the years. Looking back, initially, the earliest reports in that region just simply referred to it as the wild Indians. They would say there were two kinds of Indians. They said. They were the kinds that were closed and he could talk to them, and then there were the kinds that were hairy, naked and ran around in the woods and would sneak up on your farm and still chickens at night. Over time we had the it somehow became known as the hell Beast, and the late eighteen hundreds. The hell Beast are wa man. Nice, Yeah, and eventually it became known as the Criner creature. I like it. I like that. I can't believe, man, I've never heard that one. That's great. Yeah, The hell Beast was an interesting story because what I heard in the locals, what I heard from some of the old timers had actually told me about it in the area, was that essentially it was there was a Choctaw man that his family got murdered and he went out and got a bloody revenge. Then I supposedly they said that he'd grown so cold and hateful because the act that he changed into

11:22 a monster, according to the folklore version. Now the truth is the guy actually just left the area a painful memories and whatnot. That his story was actually recorded in the Oklahoma They're not the Oloma. There was a true Tales of the West magazine. There was an old magazine, and he just left and went to go live with some family on the other side of the state. But the fact that there's this local legend tells you that people were trying to explain sightings of something fascinating. And when you're growing up, do you remember events that would include that creature while you're growing up. Do you remember any of that from your childhood? Oh? Yeah. There there were two guys that were living out there on the land, Tony and George, and they they were pretty much making a living, trapping and living off what they raised. And they heard something out in their henhouse and they went out to check it out, and they thought it was a coyote. And when they were going out to the henhouse, something came out of the henhouse and stood up with chickens under both arms, and it was way bigger than they were, and they proceeded to empty both barrels of the shotgun they had directly into

12:52 it from about five to six ft away. The creature dropped to the ground, rolling, screaming, and it took off, ran right through a barbed wire fence, and they followed the blood frail for quite a way. It petered out and they figured to hold up somewhere up in the woods and died. But yeah, the next day there was blood and chunks of meat on the ground where it got blasted. This would have been right in late seventies, early eighties. Then my brother was actually hunting. Yeah, he actually had several encounters. He was hunting up in a creek called Mushroom Gully, and it's just a spring fed creek. It's not too far from the old homestead, and he was going out at night coon hunting and the dogs became really afraid they were there. He was practically tripping over him. And what Tim said was that he decided he had to feel when he was getting washed, so he decided to get a better vantage point, and he got up on one of the banks and looked around and standing across, he said he first thought it was a bear, and then it reached up and grabbed a branch. That's this huge, eight foot tall, hairy humanoid thing, and that scared him bad enough that he'd He actually went further up the creek and

14:26 then doubled back because he didn't want that thing following him home. Another time, we had a farm pond, a couple of big farm ponds out on the old place, and he built a float house and he didn't see it, but something climbed up on that float house and walked around with him in it, and it dane near tipped the thing over, and it was just like a little think of it, like one of those little pre made storage buildings, but it was basically he made it himself out of scrap lumber. You know, I wasn't very big. And then going back I found out that my dad had an encounter in the would have been the late thirties early forties. He was sweet on a girl that lived probably about two miles from there, and he would ride his pony up to her house. Officially he was going to play cards, but he was coming back one day, and it was when he crossed Mushroom Gully, something big and black jumped out of the brushel on the creek and proceeded the chasing, and he rode the pony all the way back to the house and jumped off, ran into the house, left the pony out in the yard. And I didn't find this out until years after his death when his brother, my uncle, actually told me the story is all is this creature still causing half today? Two? That

16:03 was one of my primary research areas and still is that way, And I have collected a lot of sightings in that area. It's one of little tiny town and you go there. I mean the population in the town itself is probably less than one hundred and fifty people. But you go there and the locals, a lot of newer people that have moved in, they won't know anything about it. But you talked to the old timers that have lived there, and just about everybody's got a story. They've either seen it or they know somebody who has, but it's not something they talk about openly. It's one of those look ask them about it. They'll look around to see if anybody's listening, and then then they'll talk if they think that nobody's listening.

16:52 Have you ever had a close encounter with it yourself? Yes, on several occasions. Actually, there was some stuff that happened when I was a kid that I kind of had pushed back to the back of my mind. But I had a redbone hound I got tore apart, and oh, I'm sorry, And I would have been about six seven at the time, and my mother actually found the dog and she went up to go get it, and she was coming back and something was following her, but she couldn't see it due to the thick fog. No birds, no bugs, nothing. And about that same time, I was a little bitty fart and something looked in my window at night and scared the crap out of me. But really I got back into it about two thousand and six when I was going out to feed dogs. Was I worked at a warehouse up in Oklahoma City, and it was almost an hour's drive back home, and i'd get off two the more and so I get back here about three and we had a really foggy weather system moving in. It was extremely foggy, and I had a couple of dogs out in the pin by the creek, and i'd go out there to feed him when I got home. And one night it was real piece soup fog, and when I went out there, I could not see five

18:23 in front of me. Back there's something moving around. We had a llama out there in the pasture at the time, and I thought it was the lama, But when I got to the dog pins, I noticed the dogs were terrified. They were in the corner shaking, trembling, And right then it clued me in that something was wrong, and I called the llama and it gave an alarm call up on the hill as far away from the creek as it could possibly get. So whatever this was probably less than twenty feet away from me, but I couldn't see it, and I knew it wasn't the Lama. At the time, I didn't know what it was. I grabbed a shovel that I hadn't leaning up against the dog pin because I didn't know what it was, and I didn't know if it was going to attack me or what. And ME and whatever this was circled each other in the fog until I made my way back to the fence and off the fence and went back to the house. And I couldn't find any tracks. The ground was pretty hard at the time. And the next day and the day after it happened again whatever this was out there waiting for me. But on the fourth night, when I got out there, the fog actually lifted, and when I went out there, I heard it take off of the creek.

19:45 I could hear splash flash. I thought, Okay, this thing's gonna have stepped in the mud. It's gonna lead prince. I'm gonna know what this thing is in the morning. So I went out there in the morning and I saw fifteen inch five tracks in the mud. And there's nobody else down in that bottom except for my eighty year old uncle and aunt at the time, And I know it wasn't them. And then I got the research and it after that, and I pretty much did everything that you probably shouldn't do as a researcher when I was because I was new at the time, and I was driving down the road one day and I happened to see one on the side of the road in the daylight. It was actually eating willow leaves, of all things. I slowed down and looked at it, and it puffed up a bit at me, like an angry teenager. But yeah, that whole accounts actually in David Politi's Tribal Bigfoot book. But yeah, since then, I've actually had a few encounters in a few different research areas.

20:56 So I guess I'm lucky that hard you see the bigfoot on the side of the road, can you still picture its face in your mind? Oh? Yeah, it's your eyes, And so what do you see in jim when you're looking at it. Honestly, it looks very human, but I wouldn't say modern. It looks very, very archaic, very p pre Homo sapiens commented typeface, heavy brow, ridges, broad wide nose. The skin color was dark, almost grayish. It was covered with the red reddish hair.

21:51 The top of it was going gray. It almost kind of like a silver back grilled, but I remember there was a bright patch of red hair on the top of the head. It was probably about seven yeah, I'd say about seven foot, maybe a little over. But the thing that got me is it was really stocky. This thing was seven foot but it was probably about three feet wide. Was a wall. And that wasn't the only sighting I've had in that location. Another night, I was driving home again late nights, I was working up in the city and that same creek system.

22:34 When I was crossing it, something much larger than the one I had seen ran across the road and it ducked. There There was a willow tree on the side of the road, the same one that one had been pulling branches off of, and it actually fell down a few years ago. But the thing that ran across the road duck to get under a low hanging branch, and it cleared the road in about two strides and slid down a rocky embankment, and I could just see a big, dark silhouette figure. The eyes were shining, I could see a bit of hair on the legs, and the sighting was over just a few seconds, and I guess that's far more typical of most people's encounters. But I went back the next day because I knew it. Ducked under that branch to see how tall it was, and I measured that branch right at nine feet off the ground. So whatever that was had the duck to get under a nine feet branch, meaning it was comparable in height. And then I checked the rocky embankment. It slid down and I found hair. I took the hair two lab. I've still got the sun of it. I did some testing on it and at the college it resembled human pubic care, but it was about five to six inches long

24:07 and straight. And I showed it the biologist at the time, which that the head biologist there was one of the members of the Oklahoma Academy of Science. He was one of the board members. And this guy's got sixty years of experience with the wildlife in the state. He couldn't identify it. He couldn't think of anything in the state that it would be. Now, there was a group out of Texas that had came up to Elreno and they got a hair simple and this location's probably about eighty ninety miles from where the location that I had this sighting. But they sent their's off to multiple labs and they kept getting unknown. They sent it off for genetic testing, and the stuff that they got back actually stated that it was an unknown genome. It wasn't in zo bank, meaning it's an unrecognized species. So they gave me a little bit of their hair, and when I compared the hair that I'd collected in the hair that they had collected under a microscope, they were a match. The scale pattern was the same, the thickness was the same, the overall morphology was the same. There was a slight difference in coloration.

25:36 That was it. So whatever they're unknown is, I can quite confidently say that my unknown was more than likely the same thing. How long ago did this happen again, Jim? That would have been two thousand and nine, I believe that's wild. Yeah, big foot, that's okay. So that's yeah, that's just long enough for people to forget about stuff, isn't it. Man? That feels like that should be bigger news. That's that sounds like a really big deal. Gym wow, has that ever been written about in anything? Or it was posted on their website? In fact, it's still on there I believe, Okay, not my end of it, but their lab results are. What do you personally feel that we're dealing with Bigfoot as a creature. What do you think this creature is. I'm a flesh and blood guy, I'm a science guy. I can't say with any definitive certainty what it is until we have an actual specimen to look at. But I can speculate based on what the evidence is, what the data says, and right off the bat, I don't think it's Gigantopithecus. There's too much

27:07 going against it, and to be honest, a lot of the mainstream hardcore researchers backing off from that idea. Even Jeff Meldrum's starting to back off. It's my understanding he no longer is really supporting giganto because the science isn't backing it up. But that being said, it is a primate sure on that if I had to classify it, I would probably classify it as an archaic. Commented. We know creatures very similar to it existed in the fossil record. We know that they were widespread across the Old World, and we also know that during about two million years ago, there was a lot of exchange going on between the Old world in the New World via the Barringia, the land bridge. Because most people don't realize buffalo actually came here during that time frame from Asia, as did the jaguars and wolves. And on the other end of the spectrum, camels came from North America into Asia, and so did cheetahs. That's wild. Yeah, this is genetically speaking mountain lines or the cheetah's closest relatives. Cheetahs are from here originally, and we have fossil

28:42 cheetahs. When I think of Oklahoma Bigfoot, you always hear these just wildly aggressive tales. Is that the case with Western Oklahoma as well? Or is that more of the other side of the state. I think a lot of these stories of aggression are misinterpretations of behavior, because Okay, get bluff charged by something, you're going to think it's trying to kill you. But in all honesty, yeah, I do think there are dangerous ones out there, just like any animal. It's going to be unpredictable, but it's going to do what it does for a reason. There and I've said this before with researchers, there are actually quite a few more reports of aggressive behavior I think in the western part of the state than there are the eastern. But I think it might be because the environment might be a bit more stressful. The western staff gets hit with drought on a regular occasions, and there are there's not as much cover, so the animals are going to be stressed out.

30:03 And by the way, Oklahoma is actually about two thirds forests that most people don't realize that. It's just one of those things. These things do what they have to survive, and if it means they have to get rough with us puny little humans, so be it. That's really interesting. You mentioned that there may even be more stories in the western side of the state that could be labeled more aggressive. Are there any that come to mind? Yeah, to start off, I have actually heard stories of two attempted abductions really in the western part of the state. And these aren't old stories either.

30:51 These are within the last twenty to thirty years. There was a guy who had been out deer hunting in the Haystack Mountains, which is the far southwest corner of the state, and basically something he was sleeping in the back of his truck on a Palllett of blankets, and something came up and grabbed him by the leg and started to drag him out of the truck. And this is a kind of a funny story because the guy said he started kicking wildly, not knowing what it was, but when his foot made contact with the piece of anatomy that he later thought about that was notably softer, then he heard a strange howl and seeing this giant, hairy figure obbling off into the bush, and then he effectively said he thinks he kicked bigfoot in the in the private area. What an amazing individual. Can you imagine just having that on like a plaque on your wall or something. That's a kind of a cool story though, because it does line up with there's a report from the NAWAC in their area where a gentleman was an arm reached through the window and starts dragging one of the individuals towards the wall. And it's almost like a

32:24 modern day Albert Osman type story too, which is cool man and horrifying. And again that's the next one came from over near Elreno, that was pow wow going on, and one of the girls from the Drive was over there and she wandered off. I'd say, girls, she's probably a teenager. But something actually shoved her over and grabbed her by the leg and started dragging her to the woods. And she said the hand that she felt on her lower leg took up most of her lower legs. She said, the palms out the size of a frying pan. She was screaming and carrying on, and it dropped her and went off on its way. And this is a witness I personally interviewed. She didn't get a good look at it, but she thinks that's what it was, a big foot. And then there was the story of what we call the Monster War from the late thirties out in my area. And basically what happened there was a family living in an old Indian cabin. They were building a new home and the farmer that owned it.

33:52 And I heard all this from his grandson, who still lives in that area, or at least did a few years ago. But he said that he heared something out in his goats, and he went out there and he had an old sharp's rifle and he seen something in the goat pen and he said he thought it was a bear, and he shot it and it dropped and he went out there and he said it was this huge man covered in hair. And about that time he heard roars from the woods and realized that whatever it wasn't alone, and he proceeded to run back to the cabin. And the cabin was actually sitting up on a bunch of rocks that had been wired together to form little supports, and his family was freaking out, and something hit the side of the cabin hard enough to knock it off of those supports, and this thing proceeded to basically beat on the side of that I say thing. Things were beating on the side of the cabin trying to get in, and they were actually shooting through the cabin at them, and the daylight came and they backed off, and the family fled to the nearest neighbor, which was about a mile away, and they almost got shot because apparently the neighbors got a visit too after that, and they said that they had

35:23 Actually they went back to their cabin and they immediately buried the body of the thing that they shot, because they were scared if they came back that night and it was still there, they would attack again. And then they actually poured the foundation of their house over it, and I have told them if they ever demolished that house, I will be there with a pick axe and a shovel. Okay, okay, okay, Wow, Jim, you know the people that's this is crazy stuff. So they built their foundation over whereas they're saying a dead bigfoot is buried. Wow, that's the story. And like I said, I've known that family most of my life and they've always been really honest. Oh wow, I can't say for sure that it's not something that got blown out of proportion. They ever tear that house down, I wouldn't mind taking a look to see if there's a grain of truth of the story. Oh absolutely. And how long ago? Roughly again did that happen? This would have been the nineteen thirties. Okay, man, that's wild. Is there a book that you know is the book for Western Oklahoma?

36:58 Nothing information? Nothing, So Jim, it's all in your head because this is all stuff I've never heard before, and this is incredible information. Jim. Has there ever been a time when you're out researching and just something happens and it is so intense You're like, if I could get out of here right now, I would definitely get out of here right now, as anything like that ever happened to you a couple of times, the one that stuck out to me was probably the most terrifying night of my life. See my old farmhouse. The area I was researching it was less than a half mile from my old farmhouse, and I had a good friend of mine that had been staying with me after a nasty divorce and getting back on his feet, and he finally moved out. And at the time, I went up to an air that I referred to as the Marker area because you go up there, it's like a little isolated pocket of woods connected by streams to bigger chunks of woods, but it's up on the top of the hill, and there's a pond and the hidden spring up there, and you go up there and there's all kinds of crazy stuff going on with the trees, all kinds of possible structures and whatnot. And I'm pretty skeptical on stick structures, but when you find a tree as a green sapling that's been wrapped around another tree

38:34 and tied in a knot, that's hard to explain. So I went up there, and that place tends to give me the creeps, and I went up in there and basically I was checking the markers, looking for footprints, that kind of thing, and it didn't dawn on me. There was no sound, There was no birds, no bugs, nothing was rustling around in the leaves. And it really should have sunk in that That means something was probably there. So I'm in there looking around and I hear a crack and I turned around and I get this piece of it would be a good piece of firewood that's probably about maybe a foot and a half long and probably about three four inches thick, come sailing in my direction. Now looking back, it probably didn't intend to hit me. I fell on my button. It missed, and I thought it was aiming at me, and I started high telling it out of there, and I turned around in time to see a big silhouette backing back down the dam at the pond at the he waited at this place, and I went back to my house again. It's only a

40:07 half mile away. My buddy who was staying out there showed up to get some stuff and he's seened. I was pretty spooked, and I told him what happened, and he asked me if I wanted him to stay, and I said, nah, you can go back. You got stuff you gotta do. I'll be all right. It wasn't ten fifteen minutes after he left. I actually was talking to some of the other researchers when all of a sudden, my dogs went absolutely berserk. They were they were going nuts, barking, and then they were gone. The dogs left, and I went out there and looked around and I had a rock hit the security light.

41:00 Looking back, it dawned on me that these things had waited. They number one, they knew exactly where to find me at because again it's only a half mile away, so they knew where my house was. And then they waited until my buddy left. They waited for me to be alone. And I went back in the house. I was getting all excited. I'm turning off the lights, and I've got a night vision scope and I'm running from window to window looking out, and the wellhouse is out by the creek, and there was the pressure switch was malfunctioning and it was making this loud, clicking noise, and through the night vision I see a dark silhouette of what looks like an ape on All fours come up and it reaches up and grabs the door on the well house and proceeds to pull the door off. And it was checking out the source of that noise, because it was a really loud noise coming from that pressure switch. So I get excited. I'm talking on the forums, and I do want to add we had the MBRC had a team in eastern Oklahoma, up near Salissaw, and at that same time

42:36 I'm talking to them, they're getting rocks thrown at them. Then over in Georgia, we had another expedition going on that night, and the Georgia team had been roared at and I think they got a bluff charge. So all three of this is happening at the same time, three different locations, and we were we were talking back and forth and I'm I've got the night vision. I'm looking out the window and I see the little ape looking thing come back, and then there's a second one with it. Then all of a sudden, this huge dark mass follows them, and that well house is about eight feet tall and whatever was taller, and I am certain it's probably the same one that I saw across the road in two thousand and nine, about a year later, But this thing and the people that were at I was actually talking with the head of the group, and he heard me go from excited too terrified in one go, because this thing was massive. And they went around there left they and throughout the night they came back several more times, and I got the feeling that it might have been some kind of show

44:07 of strength or something. I don't quote me on it, that's pure speculation on my part, but I definitely seemed to have got their interest. And when the sun was starting to come up, I hadn't slept. I was basically two worked up to sleep, and I sat down on the couch in the living room, which there's a door in the kitchen which you can see from the living room, and I turned on the TV. I just turned it on to that background always. I don't know what, didn't know at the time I was on. But you ever have something happened in your brain takes a snapshot that's permanently etched into your brain. That's how I know that Raiders of the Lost Dark was on, because as I'm sitting there, I glanced see movement out the kitchen window in the pre dawn hours, and I looked at the kitchen window, and a face pops up in the window looking at me, and I had a loaded shotgun beside me. Right after the big one showed up, I proceeded to load the firearms just in case, and I looked over at the shotgun, then looked at it, and then looked back at the shotgun, and its eyes got about as bigg around as saucers, and it proceeded to disappear. The following night, I heard all

45:44 kinds of howls and stuff coming up in the hills, and we had another researcher. He was visiting his dad, and he showed up, and I think he thought that I was making the whole thing up and everything. We went up to the marker area and we started to come back down, and I was sitting there thinking that, Okay, I gotta do something because this guy thinks I'm full of crap. So I said, I'll tell you what. We'll go up and look at the markers. You can see those for yourself. And we were went back up in there and we got met at the tree line by a dark silhouette about six seven feet talk actually it was about seven something because I went back and measured the next day and it had red eyeshine, and it proceeded to duck under a branch and start walking in our direction. And this wasn't a bluff charge. These were almost Jason vorheis Friday of the thirteenth Strides. Needless to say, we got out of there real fast. And that researcher, he'd go on to say that he doesn't think he's ever went as close to one as he was that night. But

47:14 we got out of there. We went back down there to the bottoms and something else of interest. My parents, my mother and to her my stepdad had showed up because they had snoon. They had talked to me and saw I was scared. I was about before and before we had went up there, Rob had played the Ohio House, the Famous House, and my dog started looking around nervously, and my mother actually pointed out to him that we heard here that all the time down there, a little we here's a little more higher pitch. But yeah, basically usually late at night or something.

48:07 And she thought it was some kind of alarm somebody put up in a bachelor or something that would go off on occasion. I said, that's your mom saying that, yeah, have you given them a like an audio recorder to just be like, hey, mom, just put this out in your property were they weren't living there at the time. But I've actually put audio recorders out and tried to catch it. I haven't had a whole lot of luck because you can't really predict it. In half the time, the batteries will be dead. And I'm not an audio guy that account of what happened on your property. Man, I can't imagine looking out seeing ape like creature reach up rip a door off its hinges in the outbuilding. My goodness, I don't know how you didn't just leave right there. That's wild, tim.

49:07 There was a lot of weird stuff that happened over the years. But after I got the research and that, the ball started making sense. And yeah, I still own the old play. It's starting to get so developed out in there. I don't think there's going to be activity out there for much longer. Sure, that's too bad, that is, that is a shame when the crazy locals start to get the suburbs creeping in around it, and oh boy, that's sad to hear. But man, what a story though, my goodness, And I do want to add I documented everything Okay, I photographed the door, the way l house, the markers. If I thought it was possibly connected, I documented everything is that on that m ABRC forums then, or it was on the old forums it got We lost a lot of that stuff when it got hacked. That I do have all of that on my private files. And so you're still actively researching today. Sounds like I haven't been for the past couple of years, but it's that's more due to the past few years being what they've been. A very interesting I

50:39 had no idea that western Oklahoma had has so many cool things going on regarding Bigfoot. Thank you for sharing that with our listeners. Is that m ABRC the best place to find out info about that section of the state. You think we don't have a lot on our forums about it, but if you, I'll talk at the symposiums and whatnot that we have every year, and I'm more usually more than happy to share the information with people that we've got and it's I consider that part of the state kind of one of the last frontiers for research because everybody's been ignoring it. And to be honest, some of the best action I've actually gotten was in the northwest corner of the state, and I've researched all over the state at this point. I've been out of the northeast corner up in the Ozarks. I've been down to the southeast corner, in the swamps and in the Caimucchi Mountains, And I honestly think that these things catch on really quick to the fact that the people are there too for them. And when you go to places that everybody's ignored, like the stuff in the western part of the state, it it's almost like it's

52:12 a little easier to get stuff. And again I want to mention the everybody talks about Laflour County being really the hot spot, but there's the population for that county is forty fifty thousand, Whereas you can go out to the other end of the state and you've got a county within a population of two thousand that's just as big that can That tells you exactly the difference in how the areas are. You just can't see the towns and the other else's in the eastern part of the state because of the trees. That's interesting. But so you have been you have researched on the eastern side of the state though.

53:12 Oh yeah, I have researched and all over the pretty much all over Oklahoma at this point. I have also researched in Arkansas and Texas. Oh wow, have you ever been to an area called McGee Creek. Yeah, I'm familiar with it. I've actually did some stuff there for the Oklahoma Academy of Science when I was working on that, but I haven't researched there. However, I have you searched at the Boggy Depot, which is not too far from there, I think back. Yeah, I did do a little research at McGee Creek. I forgot. So the Boggy Deep that sounds really interesting.

54:02 Yeah, it's one of the oldest there's nothing there now it's a park, but it used to be one of the oldest town sites in the state. And that's an interesting place. The Boggy Depot or McGee Creek Boggy Depot just bigfoot related, it's interesting or in general, it's just a really I would argue in general, but yeah, there is a history of big foot activity down there. I've got a spot I like to go to down near Antlers. That's been pretty good. Then, of course I've got a spot down in McCurtain County. I like to go to too, and that's one area that this particular area tends to have a lot of act ey going on.

55:00 Oh yeah, if someone was to let's say, there's a listener and they're like, oh, I want to go big footing in Oklahoma. There are so many options. It's almost to the point where it's like you don't even know where to start. Is do you recommend west side or the east side. It's hard to say. This depends on what you're wanting to do. I would say if something I've done that's actually worked out really well for me is I like to look into sightings that I call are not from traditional sources. One of the things I'll do is I'll comb the paranormal sighting reports, because I'm not saying Bigfoot's paranormal, but people with a lot of people, especially with all these ghost hunting shows, anything weird they see out in the woods gets called a ghost. So you can go and somebody will say, yeah, I saw the ghost of of the Mountain Man that lived over near Ada, and they said he's eight foot tall and harry And you can go there and start reading the comments that the people are writing because a lot of these places let people post comments about what people have saught. And when

56:30 you start reading stuff like yeah, the ghosts got into my ice box and stole my ham and then threw rocks at me and he was covered in a bear skin and he was seven feet tall, And you start reading this stuff over and over, chances are you that's going to be a good big foot spot to go to. And I've I've had a lot of luck finding some research spots doing that. That's really good advice. Actually I've never heard that type of advice, but I like that. That's I think I might. I might check that out myself for my own state. I like that it's no longer there. But one of the sites I would actually recommend using there was a you can use the way back machine and get onto it. It was called Strange USA dot com. Okay, and you just find you one of those stories about a haunted road or whatever, and then just start reading the comments that people will put in there, and yeah, that can lead you straight to a really good spot. That is that's a good idea as well. You mentioned Lafloora County earlier, so I do want to hit have you ever researched in Lafloora County. Not much. I've done some research in Pushmataha. One of my first research sites was actually about six miles west of

58:06 Honaby. I'm off just off wild Horse Creek, and I don't research there anymore because they put in a they put in a dirt track racing course just across the creek from it. But that was a place that I was getting some good stuff from, and I do want to say that it's interesting. There's a old legend about a guy named Lafloor in southeast Oklahoma that supposedly got into a fist fight with a big foot in the eighteen thirties. And the old Lafloor cabin is actually on the property that I was staying at. Oh wow, it's still standing. I actually would camping at. The guy that owns it moved a the old Honebi schoolhouse down there and he uses that for his cabin, but he used the old one for storage and when I was out there. Whenever I was out there, I just pitch a tent in it. Tall Taylor, you think there's some truth to that. I think he might have saw something getting into his corn. I think that part of it's probably true, but I'm gonna say the whole him getting into a fist fight with a bigfoot is probably an exaggeration, you know, and again that you see that in modern day too. I touched on the ghost thing.

59:37 I've got a sneaking suspicion. A lot of what people see out in the woods, they have preconceived notions, and when they see something outside of those notions, their brain tries to fill in the blanks with whatever they've whatever they're interested in. There was actually a case from a gay their Mountain, Arkansas where you who had two sightings less than a week apart by two different deer hunters, and what had happened. The first deer hunter happened to be really into aliens, and you know, he was a big fan, watched all the ancient alien shows and whatnot. And he goes out into the woods and he claims that he saw two gray aliens that were covered in hair, and he said he knows are aliens because he had missing time. The second guy said, he said, yeah, I seem too bigfoot And they clearly saw the same thing. It was just a week apart, in the same exact same area. But the first guy was convinced are aliens, And to be honest, I don't think he had missing time. I think he probably fainted.

1:00:58 That's what Hunter is going to admit. He fainted totally. Oh man, that's wild. Yeah, I think you might beyond to something there you had mentioned. Hoh, I'll be earlier. I just just shot in the dark. You involved in any way with the siege events twenty years ago? No, okay, I was familiar with the story, but and I had actually been in the area around the time of it, but it was not This is before I was doing bigfoot research. I was actually going down there and collecting samples of plants and amphibians for the college. Oh. That's interesting, but I'm guessing you'd probably still heard about it even though you're in a built at that time, not until actually after it happened. But yeah, yeah, but I was doing a lot of stuff. Every spring, I go down and spend a couple of weeks in that area doing the field work.

1:02:04 This is part of my part of a project I have you going for the college as I was a lonely biology student at the time. Jim, I'll ask you one one more question before we wrap up, and I really wanted to thank you for your time tonight. What do you feel that the best big Foot evidence to come out of Oklahoma so far? As well? That's funny because I just did a presentation at the last symposium called Oklahoma's best evidence. Oh and stillwell, yeah, in my opinion, the hair I would consider the hair sample stuff to be really interesting, and the North American would A conservancy's tag seven is also very triguing. But the one that stands out for me at the top of the list. People always say bigfoot evidence cannot stand up the scientific scrutiny, But in Oklahoma, there was a piece of evidence that did the chicken man handprint from the nineteen seventies. It was supposed to be over near Alreno. It actually happened just across the river, not too far from a place called Cougar or Cougar, depending on how you want to announce it. But this handprint something had been rating this guy's chicken

1:03:43 chicken house and he found a handprint on it, and he called the cops, and the cops came out and dusted it, and they were confused, so they called wildlife biologists to come out and look at it, and then the wildlife biologists contacted the Oklahoma City Zoo and they sent a primatologist out. So you've got forensics experts looking at it, you've got wildlife biologists looking at it, and then you've got a primatologist looking at it. And they were trying to debunk that handprint. They tried the keyword, tried the official conclusion they all came up to with was it belonged to a here for unknown species of primate. Really yeah, oh wow, that's the official conclusion on the chicken man handprint. And of course they got the name because it was rating henhouses. But and what was really interesting is doctor Lawrence Curtis from the Oklahoma City Zoo was really intrigued by this because he'd been secretly looking into other reports.

1:04:57 And he said the anatomy on the hand print was a mix between a more primitive hand than a humans. But he said it's very similar to other prints he had been looking at that had been found in places like still Water, still Well, Southeast Oklahoma, Missouri, and he was of the opinion there might be truly being an unidentified primate in the region. And like I said, that was since that's basically the official stance on what the chicken man hand print was. The fact that it remains one of the pieces that actually took a scientific pounding and came out on top. Wow, I'm gonna need to look more into that. That is awesome. Has that been talked about in any books that you found? Oh? Yeah, Lauren Coleman talked has talked about it. He tries to use it as the part of the evidence for his North American a hypothesis. But you can find pictures of the print at on the Cryptomundo website. But you can also look on newspapers dot com and find information about it. Like I said, the whole case is very

1:06:29 interesting. The chicken Man flap was probably one of the biggest cases ever in Oklahoma. It's right up there with the Noxy Monster, and in part that's because of Fate magazine actually did a special on it. Interesting, very interesting. I'm gonna have to do a little digging antet that'll be fun. A chicken man can man big Foot of nineteen seventies Oklahoma. That sounds like something I would like. I like nineteen seventies big Foot in Iowa, So why not nineteen seventies Oklahoma Bigfoot. Jim, this has been a fascinating chat about western Oklahoma and some other parts as well. Thank you so much for coming on tonight. That was a pleasure. Before we go, can you share with the listeners, is there any way to keep up to date with what you're doing, or you a guy in the shadows, or how can they contact you if they have information about your area of Oklahoma all that good stuff.

1:07:44 You can probably can contact me on Facebook barely easily enough. As far as being a public voice, I used to be a little bit more proactive, but I've been trying to avoid the politics part of it because I to prefer to be out in the woods doing the research. That's honestly one of the reasons I don't do a lot of talks on podcasts anymore. Yeah, and again, I'm super thankful for you agreeing to come on to a big facade. It's been a great chat. There's plenty of rabbit trails from this conversation for listeners to start going down to find some really cool history tidbits to do with Bigfoot. But Jim, thank you so much again for coming on tonight. It was fun. You'd like to make a special one time donation to big Foot Society, you can head on over to the buy me a Coffee page. I'd like to shout out Brian Corbyn this week for buying five coffees which will greatly help with our upcoming trip to Monster Fest and beautiful can't Ohio. His message says, can't wait to hear how monster Fest goes.

1:08:57 I'll be sharing that with the Patreon, of which is also a member. Rock on, Brian, You're a great guy. The link for buy me a Coffee, along with everything else, is in the show notes. Thank you for listening tonight. Become a supporting member of the Bigfoot Society podcast by going to www dot Patreon dot com forward slash the Bigfoot Society and receive extra episodes and early at free episodes as well. If you've got a personal Bigfoot encounter you would like to submit for me to share on the podcast, please head on over to www Dot Bigfoot Society podcast dot com. There you'll find the share your big Foot encounter form a little lower on the page, and please take a minute to share as many details as you can. Please state if the encounter is anonymous or what name you would like associated with the encounter and as always thanks for listening. S